RPC VS VFD

Helping make the choice, VFD or RPC?

[@jasonhull5712]

It amazes me how many electricians in the field that doesn’t know how to properly crimp on a fork or ring. Thank you for pointing that out. I’m in the HVAC-R industry and I see this mistake daily. Nothing more frustrating than rooting around in a panel only to find the wires pulled out of the crimp connections. On a side note it’s easier to see where the wires were supposed to go.. 😜

[@bid6413]

Good job Stan. I’ve been running my shop with a rotary phase converter I made with a 15 hp Fairbanks Morse pump motor for 25 years. I carry a small remote control that powers the coil in a large contractor with the output of the rpc going to a 3ph distribution panel as you discussed. The rpc is outside my work area and so quiet I had to install a light to remind me to turn it off when it wasn’t needed. That said I am shopping for a 1hp CDF for my drill press to avoid having to change belt location to adjust speed. BTW, the rpc runs my CNC mill and a large 3ph mig power supply flawlessly. Keep sharing. Thanks, will

[@davidjackson4112]

Thanks Stan for taking the time for sharing your experience and knowledge.

[@jimmilne19]

You make me feel quite satisfied that 3 phase is a normal part of all electrical installations here in Greenland residential as well as commercial. Informative video (as usual) and worth watching. Thanks Stan. Have a great "Bash". I'll be watching for news of the activities. Enjoy.

[@Sparky_JUS]

I'm a industrial mechanic, your videos are pure golden. Keep up the great work

[@johnmaloney9368]

im a sparky from victoria australia like your workshop enjoyed the video well done and concise informative cheers

[@beachcomberbob3496]

Nice to see electrical conventions of other countries. I served my apprenticeship in the U.K. (and many years after), but you're using the pliers and screwdriver for knock-outs just like we did, and I love the 'old school' tape connections. Like you said, 'newbies' don't get to learn this stuff any more.

[@garbo8962]

Sorry continued. Found out 2 things on VFD with 1 bliwn input fuse that was running: drive was only running around 50% of full speed by BSO and the blown fuse was not on terminal that supplied control power. Great vid.

[@bobhorton4750]

Very useful and informative video Stan. There is an American Rotary RPC in my near future as I have planned on utilizing one RPC to power all of the three phase machines in my shop. This video answered just about all of my questions. Thanks. Bob

[@grandpacocky7618]

That varnished cambric took me back to the fifties. My dad was an electrician in the water board. He had that stuff in his tool case

[@bfflorida2311]

Great vid Stan!! thank you for taking time and sharing your expierance with us, it was nice to see some old school stuff again.I'm one of the younger generations but had pleasure to work with some old school guys like you, priceless. .. It's sad that this art is slowly being forgotten. Nice shop btw! I apologize for high jacking post little bit ... but folks please DO NOT put any rags, paper towels, etc into running equipment nothing good will come out of it.

[@w056007568]

Really good video, clear concise and to the point. Most helpful, many thanks.

[@peterbaynes5804]

Informative video thanks Stan. My early career (30 odd years ago) was in testing and commissioning protection and control equipment at hydro-electric power stations and substations... those bolted connections bought back memories.

[@flwhite500]

I also learned old school motor wiring with the three tape method up to 500Hp motors! I have a 10HP American Rotary unit to run my lathe and mill, been great, did blew a starting cap and relay couple years ago, easy folks to talk too. They had new parts delivered in two days, their tech guy was great!

[@dorsetengineering]

Something worth mentioning, an rpc will also power 3 phase inverter welding power sources, although I'm not sure how common those are in the US. Coming from Europe, they are very common. I run a 300a tig inverter from a 15kw rpc with complete success.

[@slimriddim4145]

I didn't know this.... personally fed up with my 240v 100amp mic plant. Very interesting thanks

[@ROBRENZ]

Thanks Stan, very informative

[@billdlv]

Nice job Stan, very well explained. Shop is looking really good.

[@machinesmotorcycles5511]

Thanks for this video on American rotary just what I,ve been looking for . Well done Stan thanks again.

[@59jm24]

I use a VFD in my shop. the advantage I find is that it is possible to use soft start available with a vfd. Quite a few jobs I do require frequent direction reversals. Previous to using the vfd, one motor failed as well as 2 starter relays.

[@tobyw9573]

Wow! Those are some major caps in the electronics box! Don’t want to grab one of those!

[@vtstudio31]

Stan: Thanks for showing us the fine points , any one can hook up - and make it work : but not every one can know all of the little details that the pros know. REAL Big thanks,,

[@marcfournier823]

Great informative video. Maybe you could do another one for piping 3 phase into a distribution panel. That would require a bigger motor drawing more amps.

[@elioselectric468]

Nice seeing that old school splicing method on the motor. You know it's solid when you see that. That splice will outlast the motor, you and me.

[@barrobby1]

Good subject video, always like your electrical know how instructionals. One note though, I found out the hard way that the generated leg will not power magnetic contactors or other controls. Motors don't care about the generated leg but some things do, just a thought. Keep up the great vids and have lots 'O' fun at the summer bash. Great to hear Keith making it and look forward the vids produced from the event.

[@reideichner8597]

Hi Stan, Excellent video! You gave great information, as usual, and very clear on all points. I always enjoy watching your videos - THANKS!! BTW... your shop looks great! Nice and bright white!! All the best, Reid

[@gangleweed]

Yep, you are quite right, every situation is different. Why go to a separate VFD if you don't need speed control. Some years ago I went the 3 phase path mainly because the motors were so cheap and almost give away at my local scrap metal yard, but also because 3 phase is speed controllable and easily reversible provided you don't want to load them with high torque at low speeds.....single phase motors are more limited on all counts. When I managed to get a Bridgeport for a business venture I also invested in a rotary phase converter of about 3 HP as the Bridge had a 1 1/2 motor and at the time I only had the one motor on 3 phase. Later I discovered the cheap VFD's that I now use for all my small 1/4 to 1 HP motor types and they are on speed control type machines.

[@KPearce57]

$ 1534.00 on Amazon, Seems for that price they could have used Brass wire lugs instead of aluminum. Very informative presentation.

[@geneelliott3230]

Thanks, great explanation, I learned a lot!

[@thomasutley]

Good video Stan. The most important difference I've come to understand with my VFD is you must never have high voltage controls downstream from a VFD or you'll soon release the magic smoke. If someone wants to use the factory reversing switch on a 3-phase lathe, for instance, without first converting it to the low voltage DC side of the VFD control circuitry, an RPC is the only logical choice.

[@fredflintstone8048]

The official way a good electrician makes up 'pecker heads' on industrial motors that will see vibration (pretty much all of them) is to begin with friction tape on the lugs, go to rubber tape, and then finish them off with electrical tape. Then we try to situate them in the connection housing so they're in the middle and not rubbing up against any part of the housing, and if they must touch, they touch will very little pressure. Otherwise over the years the connections can rub through. Regarding VFDs there is a downside that few people discuss or understand unless they work with them in industrial setting and that is that they create very dirty power upstream and downstream both due to harmonics. The other down side is that the harmonics on the downstream side fed into motors causes currents to flow between the motor armature and ground. This causes currents to flow through the motor bearings which cause arcing in the bearings causing premature wear in the bearings of the motor. There are treatments for the dirty power and also ways to rig up the motors to short motor shafts to ground, but all this is expensive and time consuming to deal with.

[@arnljotseem8794]

Interesting video, but I'm really glad we have three-phase into most homes here in Europe. The power consumption rotary converter is just wasted energy, and the noice is also an issue plus the cost of the converter. The situation we have in Norway, is that most homes except those build the last 10 years have 230V 3-phase in delta configuration. Newer resindential homes and the rest of Europe have 400V star configuration with an additional NeutralI lead (so 5 pin connector). Many machines can be configured for both 230 delta and 400V star. . If not, we need a transformer to convert from 230V 3-phase to 400 V 3-phase.

[@sideking6102]

The initial cost of running additional wire from public utility to individual residences and business sites must be factored in. Those who actually need 3-phase are in the minority, but can have it installed from the public utility at a premium. Or can opt for relatively less expensive solutions such as an rotary phase converter or variable frequency controller. Certainly all the citizens of the city where I live, St Louis, Missouri, USA, do not require 3-phase power and to have access to it from a residential panel would be considered a luxury. Save the money for necessities, for instance, a tavern per square block, as we have in St Louis.

[@adrienneacebes6743]

Sir thank you very much for a very informative video...this is greatly appreciated...

[@muhaahaloa941]

Only thing i will add is if the motor has an internal fan which only works one way its maybe a good thing for cooling that the motor is running in the correct direction...Good job..

[@slip0n0fall]

Still encounter wrapped studs in older machinery.... it's sometimes humorous what things you'll find under that vinyl tape, it's like everyone had their own technique (some had tin foil, some packing putty, some had the thin liner from splicing tape,...)

[@TSPhotoAtlanta]

Maybe 5 years has changed VFD's -that much-, but I'm not sure what the scary, scary control package is that you mentioned a few times. While they're not quite as plug and play, until you get into assuring the more advanced feedback feature they seem relatively simple to set up, if you know thevspecifics of your motor. I think you should know a motor's features and limitations before selecting one. Per-motor cost is a condideration if one has to buy, and even rpc's can be built inexpensively.

[@MrPragmaticLee]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Guess I had it in my mind that an RPC was some mystical device you guys had hidden under your machine stands. This video, along with a recent Keith Rucker one, has removed a great deal of the mystery. Using another motor to generate the 3rd phase - what a novel idea. 😎

[@marceltimmers1290]

Hi mate. Thanks for that information. Very interesting.

[@MaturePatriot]

Learned about the VFDs/SFCs the hard way. Blew all my fuses and can't find like for like replacement fuses. I built my RPC from scratch, a 5HP for a 3HP lathe. So now I have 2 VFDs and a SFC lying around the shop. If you nuts stick out past the bell end, you have a short! I have watched others, on KZbin assemble those without the Noalox. Bad idea. You hit the 50/50!! Wish I had won, an American Rotary RPC. 'Til next time!

[@1NRG24Seven]

Since that RPC looks to be fairly portable one could wire a box to it so you could plug different machines into it, just not at the same time. If its heavy a set of wheels and means to pull it to where needed would correct that. If you work alone doubt one would be running two machines at once, unless a shaper was one of those machines. Not a good idea to walk away from any machine tool without adult supervision. And don't forget the best disclaimer of all....NEVER try this at home, always go down the street a ways.or out into your shop but never at home.

[@slaymachine7674]

Thanks Stan ! another great informative video . I have a Ronk RPC in my shop, an electrician friend of mine thinks its magic .

[@garbo8962]

If you connect single phase to a 3 phase VFD you probably would only get 1/3 of the rated HP. Would have to connect to 2 input terminals that the VDF gets it control voltage from. Did you ever rectify a single phase power source and connect it to the DC buss terminals. Older Danfoss VLT drives had the DC buss on easy to wire terminal strip. Freaked me out the first time that I came acrosd a 480 volt VFD that had a blown fuse and VFD was running. Found out 2 things:

[@beckostudio]

Man i love that we have 3P power system in EU. Double wiring to have a rotating thing in the corner Thanks fir the video

[@edrorie7764]

Jist recently replaced a 50 HP RPC with a 50 hp vfd feeding a distribution panel power all the machinery in the shop. You dont have to rewire a three phase machine to an individual vfd.

[@asimjamil6056]

Well. Might be your all motor loads are with similar characteristics

[@titter3648]

VFD's is the way to go. You can get them pretty cheap on ebay, they are simple to set up (just step trough the commissioning wizard and put in your motor parameters), they are lightweight, and they are a lot more versatile than a phase converter. And on the machine you can simply just rip out all the relays etc. and just plug the VFD directly to the motor cable (and put a fuse in front of the VFD) and plug the original switches to the inputs on the VFD for start/stop and forward/reverse. Then you have variable speed, you can overspeed the motor if you need it, it has soft starting so it is gentler to the motor and gears, you can see the load on your motor, you wont burn your motor because it detects overloads, and so on. The advantages is endless.

[@CrimFerret]

Except you have to do that for every machine you want to add one to, know how to do it, and have the time to do it. I'm not saying it can't be done, or may not offer some advantages in certain circumstances, but for many, just setting up a larger RPC feeding a distrubution box makes a lot more sense. "Cheap on Ebay" isn't what I want in a multi-thousand dollar mill or lathe I rely on. Generally you get what you pay for, and that goes double for high current/voltage parts. There's also the option of putting an RPC together oneself. They aren't rocket science.

[@pkav8tor]

Great old school wire up Stan. I still have several rolls of stretchy rubber tape and no sticky cloth tape from forever ago. It was a pain in the butt to make them up but they never failed to maintain a good connection. If that rotary was in my shop I would put it somewhere that I could not hear it, with a long feed line and a remote start switch on the machine. Can't stand to listen to the extra noise. thanks for the entertainment ....greg

[@danbentler9742]

Stan Excellant overview of VFD vs Rotary for poly phase generattion. I know you said it but you could have stressed more the choice is made by the driven loads and your desirees ie variable speed. Have not seen ring lug and bolted connections for decades. Varnished cambric - did not know you can still get it - good stuff. Even longer is twisted conductor and soldered / friction taped connections as Dad taught me. Also taught me how to meke splices in SO cord with solder ; tape. As usual well done. Regretfully cannnot make the bash - why is it you never seem to have the dollars and the time simultaneously?? Dan Bentler

[@danfloyd695]

Ring terminals work as well as split bolts for joining the wiring together and are a lot cheaper!

[@johnptc]

only for small stuff........bigger than 6 gauge i think spilt bolts are the best choice

[@ShadonHKW]

Look into Polaris connectors, expensive, but worth it.

[@marcmckenzie5110]

Stan, I never knew about RPCs - thanks!

[@daveknowshow]

I'd rather have a rotary phase converter but it seems like they are way more expensive than a VFD . I see the VFD for 2hp running around $300.00 bucks a 2hp Rotary is $400.00 bucks

[@twwtb]

Seems like noise might be a valid consideration if that RPC is even half as loud as it sounds in the video.

[@MaturePatriot]

I have my motor located outside the shop, in a dry box, with the control panel inside. No noise issues!

[@specialks1953]

I really enjoy your videos. Wish I was going to the Bash.

[@BecksArmory]

Thanks for the information. I feel like RPC must have really gone up in price. I see a lot of videos that say they cost less. I see this was made in 2016. Now A 10 hp RPC is over $800.00 and a Invertek 3 hp VFD is only $331.00 I think by the time I get the enclosure disconnect fuses and switches I'll only have $450.00 into the vfd setup. I was told I have to do a 2 to 1 on a RPC (10hp rpc for a 5hp machine). I've also found that for 3hp and bellow I don't have to oversize the vfd (single phase 220v to 3 phase 220v) Is this your understanding as well?

[@shammient]

Interesting stuff. Just about every machine in my home workshop runs off a vfd. One advantage to a VFD conversion is that the market for single phase machines tends to be much bigger than for three phase. If you end up with a machine you don't get along with you can probably move it on and at least break even.

[@warped2875]

Single point RPC for variable speed, 5HP, knee mill - $1,250. VFD for same machine - $200-$600. IMHO, costwise, VFD = the no-brainer win. Bonus features, ...1. Not having to listen to the RPC motor whining all day long (unless you add more expense by installing it outside, or another room) 2. Spindle motor braking.

[@compactc9]

Eventually I do plan on having a shop, I need to buy a house with the property to put it on first, but I will get there... Anyway, even though my first choice would be to have 3 phase power coming into the shop, if that isn't an option, I've always thought a large RPC would be the best idea, like Keith Rucker did at his shop, and you said you'd do yourself, it just seems the simplest and best way to go. There's no way I'd end up converting each machine I get, if I was going to do that, I'd likely get maybe 2 machines before giving up? Unless I really felt I needed the speed control ability on the machine. Like the (not to use Keith as an example twice) Monarch 10 EE He just got, with its odd direct current generating system, if I were going to have to do major repairs to that setup, it would be worth considering a new motor and VFD to run that, mostly because apparently the whole motor-generator arrangement was put in there to give it a variable speed control.

[@HelloKittyFanMan..]

"More power to ya!" Yeah, and to my motor with all 3 phases running than with 2 or less! :-D

[@slimriddim4145]

Thanks for this really informative video... I have an old Elliot Milmor with a 2 speed 2 1/2hp 415v motor and a half hp feed motor with suds pump. Really like the idea of a rotary but to use hi/low speed I'm guessing I'll need a digital vfd? Thanks again, you've helped a lot.

[@moisesrocha8267]

cool vids.... very helpful....

[@HelloKittyFanMan..]

Why would 3P machines be cheaper than 1P ones even though 3P motors are more complicated, like three 1P motors in one?

[@gh778jk]

Stan, For a proper 'this is my crust of bread-shop' like yours, would there not be a solution in the simple salt of the earth, 3 phase generator? Besides the extra feature of backup power, it would give you a regular 240/400 volt, a choice between star or delta, depending on your case.... and you could just wire the lot with 3 phase wiring, never to think again about it... Just an idea... European 3 phase motors usually have a small panel inside the box (what you call the motor-peckerhead) with six brass studs, mounted in a phenolic material. The configuration is always the same, which makes it dead easy to change from star to delta. Every motor comes with 3 copper bars that fit exactly over the lugs.... mount them horizontal (3 bottom lugs) for star or mount the vertical for delta ...attach your wires and your done! (to the three bottom lugs) Or you just bring the whole lot out for heavy duty industrial motors so a star/delta switch arrangements can be made in an outside cabinet. There is no need for tape, self amalgamating or other! Cheers Paddy

[@RobertSzasz]

The electric company sells power for a lot less then you can generate it.

[@danfloyd695]

i was talking about usage on that motor.

[@JackHoying]

Looks like you've unwrapped a few rolls of tape in your day!! I understand why you assembled this kit like you did, but if you want a silent version of this, you can mount the control box in your shop and place the motor outside the shop in a weather resistant area. Just need a longer cord between the two. (I realize that you know all this, but I'm just saying it for the viewers knowledge, especially if they are powering a whole shop with a larger one)

[@ShadonHKW]

I actually like the fact the whole unit can be moved around the shop or taken over to a machine for testing, but you bring up a valid point about permanent installations.

[@JackHoying]

Yes, having a unit that can be brought to a new (typically very old in my case) machine for testing would be great to have!

[@JunkMikesWorld]

I built my own with a 1/3 hp fan motor to start my transformer. How much is a box like that for a 5 HP motor? All the best! Mike

[@ShadonHKW]

I know AR makes DIY kits, contact them to see what they are all about.

[@stephenmetsch6316]

very nice and clear without the usual mumbo jumbo.

[@antonfojan2305]

Hey stan what all d o i need for a 3 phase bridgeport hook up confused thankyou from michigan

[@lincreed-nickerson7949]

One question, VFD for older heavy iron with a low top RPM, about 800. The concern I have, the maximum speed for the spindle bearings without causing damage.

[@marklatham5692]

Thank you for the instruction vid! Just bought a used AR 7.5, am anxious to put it online for my machines. My understanding of the static converter is that it delivers 2/3 rated power since it has capacitors for the 3 phase start but then only delivers 2 phase power. What about VFDs though? Full power? Or only 2/3 power?

[@ShadonHKW]

VFD will also make tagged horsepower.

[@JOHNPHUFNAGEL]

This might sound like a dumb question. If the 3 phase lines pull say 20 amps will it also be 20 amps on the single phase line before the RPC? Can you do videos on the differences between Delta and wye 3 phases and how to tell the difference And another request what is "Power Factor" and why someone would need a power factor correction? I have read some about both of them but I would have a better understanding of it if I can see it rather than read it.

[@duobob]

Your shop is really looking good, Stan. I will give it a real inspection in a week and a half... Did you get two new surface grinders? At the beginning there was what appeared to be a oversized mag chuck in the foreground, unless that was just camera foreshortening...

[@ShadonHKW]

Foreground is my old 6-12, you probably didn't recognize it because it was clean :)

[@tobyw9573]

Stan, just how big a rotary converter do you need to run a shop with many machines but may not demand many amps at one time? I.E. a 1 hp machine and a 3 hp machine. Theoretically 4 hp RPC would work for near full load/start-up while the other machine is idling. Idle hp/current draw is what, 10-20pct of max current???

[@jcs6347]

Great video, thanks Stan! How much noise does it make? Thanks again

[@HelloKittyFanMan..]

So what's the supposed advantage of an RPC over an SPC?

[@JaakkoF]

I'm not quite understanding what is so expensive in converting a machine to a VFD? The last Fuji Electric inverter I bought cost me about 250 EUR for a 1 kW model.

[@JaakkoF]

And just to add, I didn't need anything else than wiring. The VFD (Fuji Frenic series) already has a pot on it, basic breaking function (will not stop in a second without a resistor), display to show RPM (parameters help here), jogging mode, inputs for separate REV/FWD/RUN/STOP switches etc. and all one needs to do is to mount it somewhere handy and type in the motor name plate values to the parameters. Took me about an hour total and that was with reading the manual.

[@assertivekarma1909]

@@JaakkoF Prob because you have three phase already, and are just adjusting frequency?

[@Burkhardj]

I have never seen such a cheap connection wire method in my live. Is it normal in the U.S. to isolate wires with "Tape"?? Impossible here in Europe. We have mounting plates only.

[@dorsetengineering]

My thoughts as well. Odd to not see a 6 terminal stud block inside that motor lid where you can set the brass links for star/delta. Actually the idler on my 15kw rpc uses star/delta starting on the idler to get it started on a 63a breaker.

[@billyd0468]

VFD's are way more affordable. I am not sure if they are equally balanced.

[@earleclemans4836]

Where did you get the rubber feet?

[@Mrdubomb]

Im not an expert on this stuff, but ive heard that sensative computer components are vulnerable from the voltage swings a RPC can put out, you are much safer with a VFD. Any truth to this?

[@johnalexander2349]

American electricity is weird. Is a 3 phase supply really that unusual in the US? Here in South Africa, every commercial and industrial site and most big homes have 3 phase (380V). Also, why no bootlace ferules on the finely stranded wire?

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

Most of the time you only see 3 phase power in industrialized locations, whereas most households have single split phase power.

[@CrimFerret]

In a lot of places the power companies won't even offer the option of three phase to residential customers even in rural areas. It's mostly reserved for commercial and industrial. At the same time most consumers don't need it since there's very little consumer level equipment that uses it. Most of the time there aren't even spare 240 single phase outlets put in homes except where needed for specific appliances.

[@BROCKWOOD64]

Your crimper is not for insulated lugs. It will get the job done, but renders the insulation ineffective.

[@pierresgarage2687]

Good info... ;)

[@dennyskerb4992]

Nice tutorial

[@rasmusb2523]

Great video Stan! By the way: I'm using a VFD since a couple of years back on my lathe. Thing is that I'm not using a brake resistor on it, do you think it's worth getting one for faster slow down of the lathe or just keep on rolling like I've been doing? It's not like it's bothering me that it takes a little while for it to slow down, but you know: There can always be improvement.

[@JaakkoF]

I think having the resistor is convenient, especially because they cost pennies. For example if you are threading where you can't release the half-nuts (odd thread for example), hitting the reverse button and having the VFD come to a quick halt and then reversing is a great way to speed things up and be able to run a thread to a shoulder. Heck, one could even install a reverse switch for the carriage to bump into.

[@michaelcollins724]

Any difference on power consumption $$?

[@michaelcollins724]

Could you have replaced the motor with a single phase motor?

[@ShadonHKW]

Most older machines wont have single phase motors available with the right frame sizes, etc.

[@dougankrum3328]

...Have you ever connected an oscilloscope to the 3 phase to see if it's true 3-phase...with equal waveform on each phase.....under a load...?

[@ShadonHKW]

No, I have seen the test reports and graphs from American Rotary, they are as close to the real thing as you can get.

[@haskelswain1842]

Is this possibly just outdated? Watching many many videos on vfd and no other are taking 3 days to get going. Nor do they report rewiring their machines. So what am I missing?

[@haskelswain1842]

Sorry but had to update my post. Again I'll make room for the possibility that this guy is outdated. Ordered a vfd, got it couple days later, 10 minutes to hook up, Works perfect right out of the box. All the default settings worked great on my SB metal lathe.

[@turtlemann14]

how do you feel about running a vfd from a rotary? i have a decent size cnc mill (15hp spindle) and i am looking for a way to power it. also does the 2x hp need to stay true with a vfd controlled motor?

[@ShadonHKW]

Your VFD will run fine on a converter, I would call Ameican Rotary about the proper sizing.

[@raysorensen8868]

I have both types for my money RPC only way to go

[@Christh2008]

Hi Stan, I love your channel! I'm Australia and I was hoping I could have some independent advice, please? I have 240v single phase and I have a 10kw (13HP)(19.7Amp) RPC (415v) which runs my panel saw and a few other 3PH machines in my shop. I recently brought a nice 3 phase inverter stick/tig welder but it won't run on my RPC and I'm not sure why? It turns on but it won't Arc. The welder specs are a 3PH 10A 400v +20%/-15%, 50 Hz and has a kVA in the range of 7.7 to 9kVA according to its electrical plate. I am just wondering firstly if you might know if there is any obvious reason why it won't work with my RPC? and if I can't get it to run using my RPC, is there another way of getting this welder up and running, maybe using another means such as a VFD or a static converter to run it? I don't want to sell it because I really love it and I am finding it very difficult to get any information from the commercial enterprises. Thanks Chris :)

[@ShadonHKW]

It must be the inrush when striking an arc, getting over the initial jolt may be all you need to do, how close to the ragged edge is hard to say. Maybe find a friend with a larger converter to test out this theory.

[@Christh2008]

@@ShadonHKW Hey, thanks for the reply! Finding someone with a larger converter might be harder to find :). I have a slightly larger induction motor in the shop so I might swap motors and give that try? It should provide a slightly larger amount of Pixies on the inrush. Thanks again and my best regards - Chris

[@victoryfirst2878]

Stan, could you get in touch with me and let me know if you could send me some VFD ??? I will fix them and be on my way using them too. What do you say ??? Thanks

[@1jtolvey]

GREAT VIDEO !!! HOW COME 50-50 CHANCE HAS BEEN WRONG 80% OF THE TIME 4 ME ? 50 YRS. EXPERIENCE WITH 3 PHASE :-( WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE STUFF YOU SMEARED ON THE WIRES , I THINK I NEED SOME .

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

www.amazon.com/dp/B0019KHHRE Noalox

[@1jtolvey]

THANKS . IT'S ON ORDER .

[@joelandersson8504]

You just have to connect all three phases, and then switch two of them before testing. 80% to get it right! :)

[@1jtolvey]

WISH I'D KNOWN THAT 40 YRS. AGO :-)

[@strangersound]

Noalox (anti-oxidant compound) is one brand here in the U.S. You can find it at Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Ox-Gard is another brand. I've also seen suggestions that dielectric grease, or any aluminum anti-oxidant compound should work...and some say vasoline in a pinch. I won't vouch for any of those, I would recommend sticking with the Noalox or similar variant available in your area. Any electrical supply house should be able to suggest the right product if you can't find what you need at the local home improvement box store.

[@woodworkchannel3353]

Can vfd run machine with multiple motors? Like edgebander where there is routers and conveyor belt motors that start up at the same time?

[@RobertSzasz]

It's not as easy as a RPC, most VFDs are happiest driving a motor pretty directly. You can have either a dual output VFD or two VFDs that can talk to each other.

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

19:16 You sure it's just not tin plated copper wire?

[@ShadonHKW]

Baldor has used nickel wire for as long as I can remember :)

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

I see, must be nickel plated wire for corrosion resistance then, because pure nickel would seem kind of strange. Thanks

[@ytmachx]

Yes, I think maybe. Nickel is a poor conductor. Sometimes I come across silver tinned wires...usually teflon wire.

[@tomclark6271]

It's neither nickel nor tin. Tinning copper coductors with soft solder increases the natual anti-corrosion properties of the copper. By the way, pure copper does not corrode in the usual sense, and the discoloration is actually as conductive as the base copper.

[@tomclark6271]

ytmachx. Most wire approved for aircraft use is tinned with soft solder to make soldered connections better and easier, and the ptfe (Teflon) insulation is much more heat resistant. Nichrome (nickle-chromium) wire is used for high resistance electric heating elements in open air.

[@acklan3]

ShadonHKW is there a "rule of thumb" for sizing an RPC supplying a sub-panel? Obviously most shops will not run all machines at once. Thanks in advance for any advise.

[@ShadonHKW]

RPC horsepower equal to or greater than load horsepower is a good start. But I would contact AR for sizing tricky loads.

[@acklan3]

Shadon HKW thanks

[@robertkutz]

stan nice info.

[@diegogval]

Mr. Stan, would you use a 3 phase only VFD to drive a 5HP 3Phase motor on a single phase input circuit? I've searched WEG and Lenze catalogs and both stated there are not model available for single phase input in this HP range. Thanks in advance.

[@ShadonHKW]

Hi Diego, I would contact the folks over at Wolf www.wolfautomation.com/?(roi)+branded&+wolf& and see what they have to say, I have run 5 HP motors off of single phase before.

[@diegogval]

Thanks. :)

[@themotofixery]

i found vfd,s to be way cheaper and more economic than rotary. for one machine at least. got a good one from flea-bay for under $100

[@WAVETUBE84]

Prices have come way down on "static" PHASE converters. But, the different models and brands vary: as far as their capabilities. You also mentioned "Variable Frequency Drives" (VFDs), they have additional functions and capabilities that can be adjusted on the fly. You said "Static vs. Rotary". Rotary converters are great. But, they aren't as efficeint (yeah, who cares about a few pennies a month electrical bill) as the Static variety. The RPC can be "tuned" for a high Power Factor on one machine at a certain load, but lose all of that "tune" when you power up a different machine or load the machine. but, who cares, a RPC is the cheapest way to go.

[@themotofixery]

+WAVETUBE84 great information! thanks!

[@pierresgarage2687]

Smaller RPC, don't waste so much, but, my 20 hp unit idles at around 1.1 kw real measured power, don't mind it so much in the Winter but, over 1 kw in the hot Summer is not just a matter of waste, also comfort, my real first choice would be utility installation, around 7 to 10K $$$, in my case...

[@WAVETUBE84]

Pierre's Garage It's a matter of opportunity. Sometimes you are in the right place at the right time: you get a deal on a few Baldor 3 phase motors and dedicate each one to a matching machine (hp). I'm not sure about the overall efficiency and how many watts per hour they burn... compared to single phase 220vac. But 3 phase beats single phase all year round... for torque/power per watt burned. AND the 3 pase motors are more compact! New washing machines today have come out that uses a very large diameter, multi-phase rotor. It delivers an incredible amount of torque and and is ultra efficient. Since it is VFD controlled... it can reverse on the fly and go into hyper-rpm. No gear train or transmission necessary. What is it? ....a modern, horizontal drum, washing machine!

[@WAVETUBE84]

pierre beaudry The RPC takes the single phase 220 and physically changes the degrees of the "delta" "transformer" (rpc motor) induces the "3rd leg" almost automatically.

[@naberracing9188]

would this setup work for bridgeport series 2 with power feed?

[@ShadonHKW]

RPC= yes, VFD = no

[@excavateboy]

What do you think of the static phase converters?

[@ShadonHKW]

you will lose 1/3rd of your tagged horsepower, I just dont think it is worth it.

[@excavateboy]

In horse power or will it affect spindle speed. Home shop, not doing any major hogging . Also wondering about reliability.

[@eskeatvuimehragschmust]

20:10 - the European still do this.... Im a European electrician. I have never seen this before!

[@CssMajoR]

Maybe in Eastern Europe? This type of connection maybe used in transformer substation (current is MORE high) But it connects to copper bar as i know.

[@PeterDiCapua]

where do you get that "no-collex" stuff?

[@ShadonHKW]

www.amazon.com/30-030-Noalox-Anti-Oxidant-Compound-Squeeze/dp/B000LDE7V4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1523389217&sr=8-2&keywords=ideal+noalox&dpID=417yZZcJr4L&preST=_SY445_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

[@PeterDiCapua]

Thank you for responding man! I just ordered a new VFD for my old senaca falls 12" lathe. It came with an old 1 hp single phase motor (56c frame) wired to 1 side of a drum switch...So no reverse. I gotta find a 1 hp 3 phase motor and i will be so much closer to a quickly reversing lathe motor. I'm a little afraid to spin the chuck off in reverse if i go to fast...I never use that Noalox but i will from now on. Love you videos! I gotta revisit your videos and the basement machine shop guy videos you helped him with. Gotta a 1hp 3phase 5/8 shaft motor lying around?

[@ShadonHKW]

Probably, but shipping? Where are you?