Building your Affordapane Part 4

[@russellesimonetta3835]

Very fun. But I'd cut a bunch of 1× 1 blocks drill them for deck screws and lock in the parts to the table. Little more prep but your parts can't wander off the lines and the whole process goes much faster without checking and double checking .

[@Mike-ff7ib]

This is much better than a drill press. The idea of using aluminum pop rivets to hold everything temporarily was an idea I haven't thought of. Great idea.

[@claytonbuckley8626]

Jon, Can you please put the assembly on a scale and let us know how much it weighed after each video, it would be nice to see how quickly the weight adds up. Look forward to seeing this project completed.

[@boviac]

Just bought the plans and on my second read through. Thanks for these videos

[@stephennikkigash7755]

Just got mine to what u think the end cost will be .i know metal keeps gojng up

[@edstoro3883]

John, this is a good tutorial for beginners. About the holes and drilling: You first mentioned that drill bits "can" wander-walk. Then a bit later you mentioned that the "will" walk. For you new guys: They WILL WALK on you. One of the reasons for starting with a small bit. It will only wander a little bit. (LOL that was funny). Try practicing on scrap and you will see that tilting your drill you can easily walk your bit to a new and different centerline. It is tedious, but center punch your holes. If you want to build an airplane over the weekend, Revell has your solution.

[@MrPanchoak]

This method of drilling is actually MORE accurate than what is normally possible with a drill press. A drill press CAN drill more Accurately than most folks can drill with a press. But only if operated correctly. I have equipment but this i always do exactly as you demonstrate here.

[@lylewright3884]

great technique so much more accurate and easier than what was shown in the plans from years ago I really enjoy Your videos

[@glenndean2090]

Great work!. Unlike Patey's videos, these are more helpful to the average home builder.

[@orbitalair2103]

Awesome. I was looking at the plans and thinking, clamp and raise it all off the table was just too sketchy to do and stay all lined up. Great idea. Thanks, look forward to each week.

[@shanakaliyanage6875]

Loved it, thanks!!

[@FlyingShotsman]

I'm really enjoying this series, John; many thanks. I've had a set of Affordaplane plane sitting in a drawer for years, and this just might be the motivation I need to start building one (as soon as I finish my Kitfox, that is...). I'd just like to make one comment about drilling aluminum for structural members. Once everything is drilled to #30, you should up-drill to a letter "C" drill (0.242"), *not* 1/4". Then ream the holes to 0.2500, which eliminates scratches (stress risers) left in each hole by the twist drill. Turn the reamer slowly, being careful to keep it straight in the hole, and ream only one thickness at a time, not an assembly of parts.

[@Project2Aero]

Very cool project sir! I’ve looked at these off and on for several years!

[@dougkehoe3758]

Finding accuracy with less set-up...(cool). What would we do without the elementary permissions and best practices. A fun project Jon!

[@karlalton3170]

Dude forgive me for asking , i am only into all the video's up to part 4 as of yet . Is there no welding involved on this frame ? rivets only ? if so its the plan for me thanks in advance 😁😁👍

[@LTVoyager]

It is pretty easy to be off by 0.020 to 0.040 drilling in this manner (mark with pen, punch and drill). Most kits nowadays have you match drill the parts in situ. It seems like that would work well here also. Use the gusset as a drill guide for the tubes, clecoing as you go to hold things firm. That gives precisely aligned holes. I am curious why you don’t use that approach? Have you encountered issues that way with this design?

[@flyingkub]

I am with you all the way, it seams a long way around and full of areas for error.

[@mhilderbrand7693]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@tntx2]

Glad I'm not the only one that thought this. That's exactly how i would do it. His way seems like unnecessary extra steps that give room for error.

[@flyingkub]

@@electoplater there are always errors in prints.

[@kirbylee57]

I think "match hole drilling" is shown in the plans.

[@KKk-uq9yy]

❤️ Your video's diy aircraft home builders

[@bennietipton2820]

Awesome

[@arthursoutham9046]

Maybe an idea to install the fittings which appear on the open sides of the fuselarge e.g. the fittings for attaching the diagonal braceings in the tail before assembling the gussets and fixing the structure together. Should make for easier installation.

[@gyrojeffro2263]

jon has done a really great job showing how to build without a drillpress, I'm extremely impressed with his method of drilling holes, I have never seen anyone do it that way. what I'm not impressed with is this aircraft is a complete lead sled! even certificated aircraft would never be built in this fashion. if this plane makes part 103 it would be a miracle!

[@abundantYOUniverse]

Nope totally wrong.

[@kirbylee57]

Lead sled, how much does it weigh ?

[@texastyrannyresponseteam794]

i know this is the "no weld" version... but if you can tig weld you can save a few lbs eliminating the bolts and using smaller gussets inside the angles instead of the huge plates on the sides.. and have a much stronger frame

[@abundantYOUniverse]

@@electoplater Nope

[@kirbylee57]

There is not a "weld version". The heat on T6 causes it to loose about half its strength more or less. The Official Affodaplane Group on facebook talks about this dozens of times. It's a mistake.

[@abundantYOUniverse]

@@kirbylee57 Exactly right. And the gussets are an integral part of the airframe for strength. You can't just do away with them because you welded it. Same as a bridge or any other structure. People get the most stupid ideas trying to change a proven design. Why not just leave the wings off, that will save all kinds of weight! Thanks Kirby.

[@texastyrannyresponseteam794]

@@kirbylee57 i understand there is no "weld" version.. i was just saying if you chose to weld instead of bolt... and yes you are correct, 6061 T6 will lose strength when heated... most metals do, even steel.. however, using the proper filler material and heat treating the welds after will restore most, if not all, the original T6 strength... im not suggesting a 1st time welder attempt this on an aitcraft... but a seasoned fabricator who knows his way around aluminum and the heat treating process can.. and with access to the proper equipment to heat treat the piece, you can save weight and come back with a very strong frame... not to mention how much better it would look... the bolt on method is fine and plenty strong enough... and i fully understand the logic behind why this is made to be a bolt together unit.. just finding an oven large enough to do the heat treating properly on a piece this big would be difficult.. i have access to such equipment through one of my clients.. i never really considered an ultralight for myself... when i was in high school i flew a quicksilver just to see how i liked it.. my father and i were building a Glasair II RG together... and i was building hours in the family mooney... it just didnt feel safe back then.. i likened it to flying one of those old aluminum lawn chairs with the nylon webbing.. ive crushed those before... lol... and i was somewhat of a daredevil.. but the UL made me uncomfortable.. im a large man... so just fitting in one under gross is a close shave.. hell, i wore the mooney like a tight glove... the glasair was tight for me too.. i'm 6'4"... but i proceeded to accumulate over 1500 hours in the mooney and over 1000 in the glasair.. i always felt that an UL was pushing it tho... after flying a paramotor a bit a few years ago, i've grown more accustomed to minimalistic aircraft... so im thinking i may build a modified version of this thing.. i still like more aircraft around me.. pressurized, air-conditioned, kerosene burning type stuff.. but low and slow has its appeal... maybe ill try to make some videos on it if i do weld it... show the heat treat process... etc.. i haven't run it through any structural engineering software yet, but im convinced that done right, it will be more than strong enough... if it doesnt work out in the simulation then i certainly wont go that route.. id feel safe with the bolts too.. but nice stacks of dimes at all the joints would be sexy.. anyway, thanks for input..

[@affordaplanestore]

Jon double check your G gussets they look short.

[@HomebuiltHELP]

Thank you Terry! Glad I have someone looking over my shoulder. Will correct in a future video and talk about the penalties for making mistakes!

[@LTVoyager]

Looks like it was cut for all 2” stock rather than the 1” on the UL version.

[@LTVoyager]

@@electoplater I have no idea, but the 1” tube is used for the UL version so I suspect other things are different enough to provide proper CG.

[@telescope64]

Another great video Jon. I just wondered if you could give us an indication of total time on project at eg the end of each episode? Best wishes from Paul

[@theworshiptraveler6709]

Something doesn’t look right with the “G Gusset”. Looks like it was for the non UL version or a 2” tube. I could be wrong

[@JeffZiegler76]

If you can, why not tack weld the tubes so they don't move before attaching the gussets?

[@swashplate54]

......and it should probably be mentioned that a tail wheel aircraft handles differently than a nose wheel aircraft on the ground. For certificated pilots, extra training is required along with a log book endorsement from a CFI before flying a tail-dragger solo.

[@LTVoyager]

Another thought is to tape all of the joints temporarily with duct tape. That will hold alignment while the gussets are drilled and applied. I am thinking of the really good aluminum metal duct tape, not the cheap cloth stuff. A roll isn’t that expensive and this tape will hold things amazingly well.

[@kimp8079]

Taping over the part can have them slide ever so slightly. But when using double sided tape there is no risk of movement and it bites quite well to clean aluminium. Also good for making pairs or sets of identical plates in one go.

[@LTVoyager]

@@kimp8079 I was talking about taping the joints not being worked on at the moment. Not putting tape between the tubes and gussets. Certainly one could do that also, but that takes more time and means more surfaces to remove tape adhesive residue from. Usually, the joint being worked on is fairly easy to hold in alignment while working on it. And once a couple of holes have clecoes in them, the rest is pretty easy.

[@LTVoyager]

@@electoplater True, but he is following the plans and that is how they show it. It saves one cut so is a little faster and once the gusset is on nobody will see it anyway and it makes no difference structurally so it is a good design detail.

[@DilvaCh]

greating shared

[@robertripley1000]

Jon why not use stainless pop rivets to construct the fuse instead of bolts ? RiP

[@HomebuiltHELP]

Remember that those bolts provide a tremendous clamping force between the gussets that hold the frame joints together. That would all be missing with the use of rivets. You want all the strength you can get. Rivets can and do loosen over time. Bolts and nuts can be tightened or even removed easily for repairs and the like.

[@erstugs]

What engine are using?

[@KarthikSharmaWanderer87]

Thank you very much for such an inspirational series. I am motivated to build one and I am enjoying watching this series of builds. At 23:35 while placing the gusset for riveting I noticed the vertical part of the frame is offset by 1/8th to 1/4" inch inwards, or my observation may be wrong due to the over-shoulder camera positioning. Kindly review the video at 23:35 and verify before proceeding. Thanks again for this series of build videos. Waiting for the next part eagerly.

[@Dutch1951x]

Wood blocks on either side of each tube holds them in place during construction.....

[@HeliZero]

Could it be a good idea to use welding-magnets. It would spare a lot of time building and fastening. Requires only a metal work-table.

[@edstoro3883]

@@HeliZero Or you could use wooden magnets.

[@AzTrailRider57]

@@HeliZero Those would have to be special aluminum magnets.

[@stephennikkigash7755]

How nuch was it to build the frame the2×2 and1×2 and the plate of metal to make guessuts

[@swashplate54]

Roughly, $625.00 plus shipping, it will probably be a little more but that depends on shipping to your location. You may be able to find a place close enough to go and pick it up. And then there are taxes.

[@tomcoryell]

I can see where a pneumatic riveter would be handy.

[@prof.heinous191]

Jon, for those of us in non-103 countries, can you tell us the max engine weight for LSA versions, thanks.

[@yorinov2001]

according to the 103 plan the engine needs to be under 75 lbs (34 kg)

[@rustynutz4493]

Go to Settings / playback speed / 1.5 x and get through while you're young

[@flyingkub]

I take it you will unbolt the whould lot to get all those rivet tails out? Have you tried the CD method of making sure the drill is at 90deg to the surface?

[@rmm9676]

Please describe the "CD Method". Thanks

[@flyingkub]

@@rmm9676 the CS method is a way of ensuring your drill is straight. You get an old CD and drill a hole in it then thread it into you drill bit, centre your drill, then hold the CD on flat the surface of the item. Now look at the reflection of the drill bit on the CD from a couple of directions, making sure it looks straight, kink as it goes through the hole. Drill is the at 90 to CD and if CD is on flat, 90deg to the item under it, so you are straight on to drill.

[@orbitalair2103]

Rivets will be drilled out. 1/8 rivet will be drilled out to 1/4 inch. It will all come out by drilling.

[@flyingkub]

@@orbitalair2103 I could see that! The comment is the fact you have to take it all apart to get rid of the rivet tails, which add weight and will rattle around causing damage over the long term.

[@rmm9676]

@@flyingkub Thanks. We did not have STEM curriculum in the 60's. My lack of knowledge is due to emphasizing math and science and Latin??? in high school. Should have taken Shop, auto mechanics, woodworking and electrical classes. Haven't had to solve a polynomial equation since then. For the rare Latin phrase there is Google. Quos Deus vult perdere prius dementat.

[@acu1240]

Liked 2👍👍

[@jeremylauer5234]

I am curious what rivet squeezer you are using. seems like its minimal effort to squeeze. Thanks

[@willhartsell2283]

Prolly years of doing them by hand. I know my hands are much stronger after starting my rv12 build. He’s also using aluminum rivets and not stainless (used in most structural applications) which are way harder

[@mhilderbrand7693]

@@willhartsell2283 Kudos to you if you are building a -12 without a pneumatic rivet gun😄.

[@willhartsell2283]

@@mhilderbrand7693 I have a pneumatic one as well but it doesn’t always fit.

[@orbitalair2103]

aluminum rivets and he has adjusted the squeezer. seems like most people dont know you can adjust the bite, its should never take 12 pulls to pop a rivet.

[@jimnjele.bean-dayone3505]

Thank you for this!! I hope we see the full aircraft build....

[@JMOUC265]

It helps to have new drill bits for the project so that holes are cut cleanly and burrs minimzed. I think the 6061-T6 helps a lot in that regard, but I would watch for material push through on the reverse side of the hole. If significant, it should be deburred, I think.

[@pilotarix]

Very informative video. I like the way you do the gussets and the drilling. However, I am not too keen on the C-clamp solution either. Anyhow, there is at least one Affordaplane that was built with rivets kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4WtdmiOns2MhaM instead of using screws. Suppose I understand that correctly. The guy used 3/16 stainless steel rivets which may not be the best choice due to potential galvanic corrosion. Anyhow, I like the idea of using rivets. It likely will save some weight and maybe some build time, whereby the latter is not so important. The Designer mentioned Stainless Steel rivets as a potential option during this interview kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGmrip5jqc-Zldk (2:28) and mentioned that it will be lighter by using rivets. However, recently in his Facebook group, he did not want to talk about rivets anymore and just stated builders should not compromise safety by trying to save some weight. Wondering if more people have used rivets. If I would use rivets, I would probably use CherryLock rivets.

[@outlawflyer7868]

Rivet twice? Ya, there has gotta be a better way.

[@hampneel4589]

Was looking for my cat