Bullpup vs AR | 9-Hole Reviews

Henry Chan and Josh Mazzola of ‪@9HoleReviews‬ discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both the bullpup and the AR rifle configurations.
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[@texpatriot8462]

Henry rocking the revolver ... and a bull pup.

[@yutakago1736]

When I am in National Service in Singapore Army. I have opportunity to use the New Zealand Army AUG and I found that it is easier for weapon cleaning compare to M-16. I have opportunity to use both system because my country change from M-16 to Bullpup rifle. In term of accuracy, both are good. In term of cleaning, the Bullpup is easier. In armored vehicle, urban area and jungle terrain, the Bullpup is superior due to its shorter length make it easier to move around. In term of changing magazine, the Bullpup is awkward because I am already use to M-16 combat reload method. The left hander hated the Bullpup because they are force to shoot with their right hand and left master eye. The people most happy with the Bullpup change are the Tankees because previously they use the CAR-15 carbine. They have never hit any targets at 300 meters due to the shorter barrel length of CAR-15 so their marksmanship score are always below the Armored Infantry, who used longer barrel length rifle. With the Bullpup rifle, the Tankees average score are same as Armoured Infantry.

[@Mike-kr9ys]

You had me at Steyr AUG. Came for the AUG, ...stayed for the AUG...

[@sleigh4019]

Have some slow friends ...so your good man!!

[@Hankhillismrbig]

I also came for the AUG. And then I unpaused the video 😏 Lol. All jokes aside, I love the AUG. Bought one for its looks, but ended up actually preferring it over my AR. I

[@cadian122]

Same... AUG over ALL brothers

[@AWEismaschine]

CAME for the AUG? 🤨📸

[@arkzgun]

The 1 handed shots were cool to see, I do those with my X95. Bullpups really do have amazing balance. I would like the new AUG next.

[@bendgeddes]

A genuine advantage. For example, giving traffic signals at a VCP with the left hand and barely dropping effectiveness is very convenient.

[@GeorgeOu]

I saw a KZbinr driving his car and shoot out the driver side and passenger side window with a Tavor. It's also possible you gotta drag an injured teammate, or one of your arms are injured.

[@RockSolitude]

A lot of the so called "deficiencies" the AR-15 faithful (Americans) find with bullpups are really just down to the design of the specific weapon. Also the AUG is old (like the FAMAS) and Steyr has mostly neglected to update and modernize it. ANY weapon would have the same benefits as the AR-15 if it had the same massive commercial industry around it for over 20 years. The other thing is civilians tend to think these days that competition shooting and gun drills is how the military goes about in combat using their guns. It's not. Maybe a few drills might reflect on CQC and room clearing but that's about it.

[@matthewconnor5483]

The lack of rail space, especially on top is a real issue for bullpups. Way easier to mound a scope and thermal/nv, lasers, lights and anything else on an AR with all the rail space.

[@abelincoln.2064]

All the designs had major flaws and Steyr lost out on huge sales of ARs & bullpups ...by not making the AUG simply a ... bufferless Monolithic AR upper with ambi side charging handles only and no forward assist for any AR lower or Steyr's AUG lower. So Steyr could have offered the AUG ... as a AR or bullpup Likewise ... Sig should have developed the MCX ... as the MCX upper ... for a AR or bullpup lower. The M7 should have always been about the Spear being an AR10 upper .. that can be used with an AR or bullpup lower.

[@lucastonoli3256]

@@matthewconnor5483 People have mounted scope+clip on nv on the AUG, not hard at all, you can still control your IR illumination device too.

[@murphy7801]

I mean the FAMAS felin is quite different even though FAMAS been out of a production for a long time due to the factory being destroyed in 2002. Also as much as a love the FAMAS it does require special steel ammo, NATO brass ammo gets destroyed in it due to its violent mechanism. The hk416 was a stop gap weapon. Small arms are easy to produce and Germany sold them cheaply to the french at $1400 roughly converted. I'm sure next french rifle will probably be bullpup and made in France.

[@tomahawk5118]

I’ll take the AUG…

[@jfess1911]

In situations where velocity is important, the bullpup can have an advantage. The shorter barrel of the M4 vs M16 dramatically reduced the fragmenting range of M855 ammo. That was a large reason for the adoption of the M855A1, which frags at lower velocity. If body armor defeat becomes a serious issue, the option is to adopt a more powerful cartridge or go with a longer barrel. There is an interesting issue with Australia looking at the 6.8x51. In a bullpup, they can match the velocity of the M7's' 13" barrel with its two-part hybrid ammo by using a bullpup with a longer barrel and using less expensive brass-cased ammo at a lower pressure.

[@carloscentenocastro9005]

My boy Henry styling with a big iron on his.

[@danielryan4050]

It's a bit of a shame that it's so difficult for people to get the latest iteration of the F88 Steyr that has come into service in the Australian Military (EF88) for breakdown and review. It fixed a lot of the deficiencies that were discovered with the standard variants of the AUG. Some of the more important ones being a bolt release (though a lot of old hands still use the old drills), many more picatinny rails for accessories, A decent scope (Specter X1/X4 variable) over the old donut of death, and they did away with that fixed fore grip for a removable one with a built in bipod for supported fire, which is also removed for fitment of a 40mm underslung grenade launcher if needed. I had to laugh a little at the thought of holding the AUG near the gas plug. One of the more comfortable alternate grips I ever used shooting the things was to actually rest my forehand at the top of the guard in front of the trigger assy where it meets the receiver. With the center of gravity of the rifle, it makes it incredibly comfortable and controllable. Once you get used to it. Reloading the AUG is quite quick and simple, and yes it's a lot tighter than the AR-15 platform. One of the big things you see people do, which causes a lot of jams, is the confidence tap on the base of the magazine after loading. Due to the way the magazine is designed, this isn't needed and can actually dislodge bullets from the top of the magazine into the breech.

[@hbgundam]

We were supposed to get a semi-automatic version of the EF88 here in the US, Thales pulled the plug on importing them, on ethical grounds.

[@danielryan4050]

@@hbgundam I can't understand that decision considering that you can already get the other versions there already.

[@hbgundam]

@@danielryan4050 Yeah, I was a bit pissed when I hear that. I've always been interested in the AUG. Maybe they didn't wany bad publicity if one got used in a shooting and chickened out.

[@danielryan4050]

@@hbgundam It's probably got something to do with the EF88 being specifically designed to the requirements of the Australian Defence Force. A massive amount of work was put in by the Army to develop the improvements to it.

[@TheNOMISS]

Karl Moser, Horst Wesp and Karl Wagner with Steyr got the AUG right all the way back in 1977. I used an AUG for 21 years, beautiful well balanced, accurate and reliable rifle. Best way to evaluate this comparison is to have someone like the two guys here run an AR type rifle that they are used to - and have the AUG ran by someone who is similarly used to it.

[@abelincoln.2064]

Nope. Innovative yes. But far too complex, and the side gas piston and fixed 1.5 x optic not a rail was just plain dumb. The AUG ... should have been a AR15 upper ... that can be mated an AUG bullpup lower. Steyr would have made a killing ... with AR & bullpup sales. C'mon. You know this AUG AR & bullpup design ... would have actually been brilliant of Steyr to have done back in the late 70's.

[@FloorItDuh]

​@@abelincoln.2064No and don't project your desires onto others. The AUG was designed the way it was for a reason and like everything else that sticks around it saw upgrades to make it better.

[@TheNOMISS]

@@abelincoln.2064 No I strongly disagree, The AUG was designed for conscripts or national service, and it is a very simple rifle to operate, maintain and use, adapt, and repair. You are absolutely missing the point of the design of the original AUG A1 with it's 1.5X optic with the "donut of death" reticle being an early reflex type optic ahead of its time (common theme with the AUG) which is also very useful with BDC out to 400m when zeroed POA/POI at 300m, all you do is put your target standing on the inside of the "donut" and you will hit. As regards rails - Picatinney rail wasn't standardised until 1995, the AUG was designed in 1977, there's almost two decades of a difference there. Having said all this - the AUG was also available with multiple housing groups for different optics magnifications and reticles as well as scopes, not to mention LMG barrels and CQB length barrels that could be changed in seconds. I think you are proving my point above where I state that for a true comparison between platforms there must be a shooter who is used to the AR and one who is used to the AUG - then run each in a series of tests, only then will we will see true capability of each rifle. I think too perhaps you are biased to a platform you have experience with, and there is nothing wrong with that, but with respect - you do display a lack of understanding of the AUG.

[@abelincoln.2064]

@@FloorItDuh lol. The only reason the Australians haven't abandoned the AUG as the NZers have .. is because they actually license made their rifles and .... developed & improved it ... into the F90. Otherwise the Aussies would have also adopted the latest & greatest AR rifle .. if not the Tavor X95 & 7. Steyr did squat with the AUG compared to what the Australians did ... and they stupidly stupidly put the gas piston on the right meaning the charging handle will always be on the left ... and forced owners to have a 1.5 x scope built into a handle instead of just have a long rail with to attach optics or iron sights. The British experimented with a bullpup lower for for the AR18 .. and the short stroke piston system of the AR18 ( on top of the barrel) influenced the development of the AUG ( piston on side), G36(top), HK416 (top), and even the FN2000 (side). All bullpup designs ... should start as as an AR bufferless short stroke piston upper for an AR or bullpup lower. And all you have to do is focus on developing & improving ... the bullpup Lower. This is just plain common sense.

[@abelincoln.2064]

@@FloorItDuh Need we forget .. Steyr's new DMR rifle which is a piston AR ... not their venerable AUG. Where is their IWI equivalent to the Tavor X95 and Tavor 7 .. and a 308/6.5 CM AUG? Admit they developed a niche rifle... not the gun of the free world ( ARs).

[@petesheppard1709]

Fun video! It boils down to familiarity and comfort. For a bet-your-life rifle in the States, the popularity of the AR and parts availability make it a more practical rifle. I like my X95, but if I had to bail, I'd take my AR.

[@wadesafool]

So much knowledge with these two!

[@100radsbar]

I'd take the AUG any day. That setup Henry has on it rocks, and creates tingles in the right places....

[@crafty714]

As for what I use my AUG for, home defense, it's more than adequate. 30 years in law enforcement, and carried the AR platform rifle, I do not feel any way less armed. How many home defense situations have had to do a reload? Not at all our of the question. I'm comfortable with either one. Awesome video, as always, y'all!! Mud Aug!!

[@GeisseleAutomatics]

Always love to see the guys from 9-Hole Reviews! Great breakdown of both platforms. Curious to see what other bullpup rifles people are running and how they have them setup.

[@JohnBrowningsGhost]

Wishing for the Giessele trigger treatment for the Desert Tech Bullpup!

[@KwameDoes]

That A3 M2 is supposed to hit the states as well.

[@richardschleenvoigt4374]

The most important aspect of weight is how long you can sit at a corner while FIBUA and aim down your passage without cramping.

[@supaorigamisensei]

Aussie here I’m no military personnel or anything but I do love that in less than 30secs you can go from a 14in pdw barrel to a 24 in aug HBAR and immediately swap to a 42 round mag for minor support fire plus keep swapping out barrels when they’re hot over say an IAR or an RPK I could imagine you’re in a troop transport with a pdw barrel attached all of a sudden the vehicle gets disabled you’d be able to exit and swap to the hbar and provide support fire pretty quick I think the Australian army adopted the aug but also altered it bit calling theirs the austeyr f88 with the same form and function but much more picatinny rails

[@SKSSVT93]

You swap out a barrel and now what's your zero?

[@fdenrico9861]

@@SKSSVT93 if at any point you'd want to change your zeroed in "regular" barrel length to a HBAR and lay suppressive fire to an enemy, i think accuracy is not a concern anymore, accuracy through volume

[@SKSSVT93]

@@fdenrico9861 Accuracy is always important. If you know that the barrel swap only changes your impact a little, maybe it could be useful.

[@hoilst265]

I remember talking to a US government agent who'd trained on the M4. He was looking at the pic of F88, said you couldn't expect much accuracy or power out of such a short barrel - he thought it only had an eight or ten incher on it, because he was judging from the just forward of the trigger. He was surprised when I told him that it had a 20" barrel - six inches longer than the M4, despite the overall shorter length.

[@kenreckless2757]

@@SKSSVT93Modern Australian Steyrs have the optic rail fixed to the barrel group. When you change the barrel the optic fits into the butt group already zeroed.

[@lw454]

manual of arms familiarity is a real hard thing to overcome.

[@FloorItDuh]

With experience and training no it isn't. This is a common myth I've found many who have never shot a bullpup believe or parrot because they heard it from somewhere else without first experiencing whether it's true or not. I promise you in 15 minutes you can pick up the ergonomics of a bullpup. I say this as a veteran who trained on the M16/M4 who now shoots bullpups. It's the equivalent of saying the SCAR isn't more popular because its ergonomics are different since the charging handle is in a different location. I'm not ranting at you by the way, just through you.

[@zoiders]

I've used bullpups. I've used M16s. There's nothing to it. Mag on. Make ready. Have at it. Every rifle is just a magazine and a reciprocating bolt with a cocking handle. Everything else is just semantics.

[@terrarecon]

It's not as hard as you think it is. What makes it hard is when you convince yourself it's hard and fail to put in the effort like anything.

[@lw454]

Ok, we're going to re-train entire battalions and corresponding units to gain proficiency with a new manual of arms. Not to worry though, we have it on good authority that this should be easy.

[@terrarecon]

@@lw454 Okay first off, no one said anything about making bullpups a standard in the U.S. military. The context of the argument of manual of arms has to do with the private individual and what they may be used to for some if served in the military. For those who were never in the military, they adopted to the AR-15 platform. I think you are reading a little too much into the responses to your comments. Just for added measure since you brought the military into the context of the conversation. In case you forgot, the 1903 Springfield, M1 Garand, M-14 are all different platforms than the M16/M4. They ALL required a different manual of arms leading up to what is standard issue in the military today. So, if people can train to use different platforms prior to the M-16/AR-15, they can do so with bullpups given the proper objective commitment to learn. Instead of psyching themselves out that it's too hard learn something new.

[@oscarfloyd2678]

Another consideration is cost. I can get a fully functional AR for $500 now, and it be accurate and dependable. Even on Sale, most bullpups are sitting around the $2000 point. Yes, I am aware of MSRP's of $1600, but by the time the sales tax comes through you are sitting closer to $2000. That's the biggest reason I haven't gotten into bullpups

[@FloorItDuh]

Something most people miss is the only reason you can get an AR that cheap is because of how many companies are making them and how long they've been around. Back when it was new or more obscure to the general public it cost in equivalent what bullpups cost today. Scale of economy really brought the price down for the AR. The other thing it has going for it is it has a TDP/TGP that anyone can use to build a full spec rifle. Back in the 90's you had your ABC's if you wanted an AR and that was pretty much it. Now everyone and their mother makes an AR just like everyone makes their own Glock these days too.

[@timothym9398]

True, but this video was comparing probably a $6,000 AR vs a $2,000 Aug. I know I got my Tavor for about 1,500. That's pretty close to what people recommend for a "real" AR rather than just a budget plinker. (I also have several palmetto ars)

[@dbmail545]

Been rocking a Tavor SAR-21 since 2013. Took some tweaking and training to get the full potential of the gun. It is a nice home defense gun but I still prefer a conventional platform for most applications. 4:43

[@wubaru]

My aug even has a take down feature where the stock cracks in half to allow for easier storage!

[@michaellowery928]

IMHO the bullpup concept makes better us of the same parts with regards to ergonomics and balance while benefitting from reduced length which translates into less fatigue especially when utilizing hush devices. I also believe, eventually, the big manufacturers will perfect the platform. Change happens and people adjust.

[@williamwlotzka8721]

To me,the ergonomics of the AR platform certainly helps w/it being able to fill many roles,i.e.;AR pistols,SBR's,carbine lengths,DMR's & even magnum caliber precision rifles,all with similar controls,mag release,bolt release,etc.,as well as aftermarket support w/many options for lights,lasers,grips & handguards,sighting systems,triggers &so on. Personally I like bullpups,& their different manual of arms is just another reason to learn how to run them

[@zacharyschellinger4769]

How many are now switching to an AR variant? Brits and French. New Zealand already switched.

[@AJ-xc4nm]

Not to mention many NATO special forces units were already using AR style guns for decades instead of their nations standard issue bullpup, as its genuinely just a better option for an elite fighting force.

[@ThrashTillDeth85]

They also are subsidized by the US

[@nirfz]

Why did france change?: they killed all ther domestic mililtary arms production and wen't with somehting that is already in production when their Famas came to a point where they could see wear and the end of replacement parts at the horizont. Were they unsatisfied with their Famas, not at all. Would they have chosen another Bullpub if they stil had the manufacturing and could have made one to their liking? probably. The VHS-2 and the HK416 were the two final competitors, and i would say the writing that the germans would change to something simliar was on the wall, so the french went with parts compatibility for once in their history. (also the 416 has a prooven mission record while the VHS-2 was fairly new) The VHS was also the only bullpub submitted to the trials. Neither IWI nor Steyr seemingly were interested in the french contract. (and there's nobody else to my knowledge in the western hemisphere producing a bullpub that is mil usable and france for some odd reason ;-) didn't ask the chinese for their standard issue rifle...) New Zealand: their AUGs were made in Australia, and now they buy something from a cheaper, american source. Another reason for NZ is that Australia stopped producing the variant NZ has used and teamed up with Thales to make a different variant. That means Thales had a say if and what NZ would get, and to which price... UK: i mean do we need to talk about the SA80? The brits have, like the french no capalilties to make standard issue rifles themselves anymore, and UK soldiers when in the same camps with the irish voiced a number of times that the one piece of equipment the were envious of the irish were the rifles... And why were special forces using AR variants in many US coalition forces? Because when you are supplied by the US you are best to use roughly the same shooting stick. (pistols don't matter as much as internetoperators think, so it doesn't matter if they differ) Also, special forces often times have a quite diverse arsenal they pick from specifically for the mission. But people are mostly aware of pictures form recent desert warfare missions for special forces. I have seen special forces with FN P90's as the main arm in certain situations. And the french and other still have some .357 mag revolvers in their arsenal for some occasions. That special forces have AR like guns in their arsenal doesn't say much, just like with the revolvers: you would not claim a 6 shooter to be the best idea for a military handgun either just because there are situations where special forces want to use those.

[@alexandrevincenot6546]

Very good post from nirfz ! The switch isnt really related to innate differences of the platform Especially for the french army. Our government is full of traitor who volontarily dismantle french industry for money.

[@murphy7801]

​@@nirfzFrance can make small arms, unlike the Brits. Just they where in a rush to replace the FAMAS since it was out of production and Germans offered it cheap. I'm sure probably go with a something made by lebel next time.

[@KACisWAC]

Some very good points were made in this video. ...I still want an AUG ❤

[@gansior4744]

AUG A3 M2 will be all that people asked for in Aug. And for the trigger, you have some easy parts to swap, like red Springs, Arid trigger face or a metal sear release and it makes the massive difference for all the people that care about triggers for some reason

[@Snapper314]

I've been seriously considering buying a Desert Tech Wolverine (WLVRN). Among Bullpups, it is among the most flexible and capable.

[@FloorItDuh]

I have an MDRX. The ergonomics are fantastic. It is truly the best modern bullpup there is and caliber conversions are easy. It's truly a one rifle that can be made to fit most applications.

[@AWEismaschine]

​@@FloorItDuhHow's the magwell situation? The rifle being built for 308 with an adapter magwell has me a bit sketched, along with the rifle being discontinued. I love the design, but it's caused me to heavily consider if my preferences are more important to me than, you know, being able to find parts. Also unsure about how well it handles heat overall. Big LMG wannabe type so not sure if it's as sturdy to volume of fire as say an AUG.

[@FloorItDuh]

​@@AWEismaschine sorry for the late response. It works, that's about all I can say. If you're looking for something super snug the adapter is not it. With normal 308 mags it feels like any other rifle. Don't get me wrong you're not going to have your mag just fall out of get ripped out but you can certainly flex it around in there if you're using it in 556 configuration. It's not really a problem it just feels sloppy which is why I wish they'd just make a dedicated small frame 556 only version.

[@FloorItDuh]

As far as heat yea it's going to get warmer as the action is closer to your face but let's be realistic, if you're in a civilian or even military setting you're not going to be dumping a full combat load of ammo outside of a range environment otherwise if you are the last thing you care about is how hot the rifle is getting because things have really gone sideways.

[@AWEismaschine]

@@FloorItDuh Agreed, the whole convertible caliber thing feels like another weakness like the forward eject turned out to be. And im starting to think Desert Tech was the wrong company to push these innovations. Price point is way to high for how experimental these guns are. Like the designs are revolutionary for bullpups, but the QC for the price is insane. Ah well maybe the PSA Jakyl will turn out better. Something between the RDB and the WLVRN.

[@danastaph7708]

The big problem I have with the bullpup is swapping left and right. I shoot right handed, and my son shoots left handed. Swapping rifles took me a couple of rounds to get used to left eject, where a bullpup would not even allow me to shoot.

[@pluemas]

Most modern designs are made to allow you to shoot right or left handed. Back in the day these were made, no one was shoulder switching. VHS-2 and the DesertTec designs are both able to be fired from either shoulder with no need to adjust anything, for example.

I'm pretty sure the Australian versions have always allowed to shoot both hands but I'm no expert.

[@animalsoul444]

i became a bullpup lover and prefer the benefits. AUG or VHS-2S(Hellion) are for me the choosen ones. Tavor is also fine but i dont like the grip there for me personaly, but the AUG is kind of the most strange bullpup in handling.

[@tiiiimmmmmm]

I'm really on subbed here for more 9HR content. kek

[@billdanosky]

I'm American and love both platforms. Bet I'm not the only one.

[@ohredhk]

Luxembourg has already selected the HK416 as their next rifle. The replacement program for SA80 will kick off this year and pretty much all expect the new rifle to be an AR.

[@abelincoln.2064]

All the bullpups have flawed designs. The AUG ... should have always been a bufferless monolithic AR upper .. that can be mated to a AR or AUG lower. Steyr would have had huge contracts for its AUG ARs & bullpups. Likewise Sig should have developed the MCX ... as a bufferless AR upper ... for a AR or bullpup lower. So the US Army would order a mixture of Lowers for the M7 and specific roles.. or switch completely to the latest greatest bullpup lower.

[@heyheyhophop]

Love the classic dacha rooftop in the bg 😅

[@cikame]

I found the US military's pairing of the 6.8 cartridge with a traditional rifle a little odd, the aim was to have a flatter shooting harder hitting standard round for better penetration and longer range engagements, so i would have thought they'd want to get the most out of it with the longer barrel of a bullpup, that's probably the biggest example of trading ability for familiarity considering the expense.

[@chiplincoln5482]

See how much you like the AUG after switching weak-side for barricade shooting. I'm not a fan of brass in the side of my head.

[@jwolf6088]

Henry seems like he is being overly generous with the AUG. If you like shooting a staple gun, you’re going to LOVE the trigger on a bullpup. I’m definitely biased tho. Geissele URG-I’s are mega based. Barrels are 👌

[@jamesdendy6384]

Overly generous is perhaps the nicest way to say these dudes are outright lying about its known poor performance lol

[@psav7]

An AUG with a 22" Barrel is still shorter than an AR with a 14 inch barrel, the energy with a 22" barrel is much higher than with the 14" ....1300ft-lb vs. 900ft-lb...that is huge!

[@pablo4yu]

Naa only fudds hate bullpups… they’re good firearms great non ar platform aug

[@Honeygooyumy69]

AND I AGREE AND THAT IS WHY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A 20 INCH BARREL WITH A PICATINNY COVER EXTENDED TO THE END OF THE CURRENT BARREL ..AS THE EXTRA INCHES WILL STILL STICK AND THE END .. AND TO BE ABLE TO PUT A BAD ARSE SILINCER ..THAT MAKES UP THE AR PLATFORM UNSILENCED DONT FORGET ..ITS THE CRAFTSMAN NOT THE TOOLS WHICH DEFINES WHO IS GOOD AND WHO IS GREAT

[@hakansoderholm6514]

Steyr AUG 9mm has the Worst trigger I ever shoot. 😀 but it was Fun! 🙂

[@matthiaskreuziger9647]

For fast aimed shots we used to hold it at the hand grip instead of the barrel grip (in Austria).

[@jojocactus7815]

I was expecting you guys, to make comments and observations how bullpups affects left-handed shooters. Anyways, great video.

[@Anonymous8421]

Left handed people aren't real, that was a myth invented by golf companies making left handed clubs for tax write off purposes

[@AndrewMilesMurphy]

The only thing I don't like about bullpups, is that the reload is tricky. Otherwise, it's actually better. But reload is a big selling point in special forces and related things.

[@cynickicksass]

Tiiight! Love you guys!

[@glandhound]

I was told, ages ago, that the military training is to hold the AUG with an 'old school pistol grip', the supporting hand on the trigger guard behind the vertical grip. Dunno if this is better for the recoil or just to make sure your hand is not near the end of the gas tube... probably latter since it's the military.

[@kenreckless2757]

It's personal preference. The fold down front foregrip is pretty stable, doesn't wiggle around overmuch, but where you put your supporting hand is fundamentally a matter of what feels more comfortable.

[@NewbombedTurk]

I love the “operators” out there whining about bullpup triggers, as if the trigger is the reason they suck.

[@nirfz]

I always like to compare it with austrian conscripts: in my company (25 years ago) we were 150 guys, and maybe 1 of us had fired a hunting rifle beforehand for the rest it was the first gun in our hands ever. Nobody told us that "it's has a bad trigger", and we were able to hit moving targets at 200m after being taught to handle the AUG in basic training. But many "internetoperators" have a hard time hitting a static target at less distance because the trigger is so bad...sure. (And that's what i like about Henry and Josh, they aren't bullshitting around like many "internetoperators".)

[@jamesdendy6384]

It's not that the augs' garbage trigger will make you suck...training will get through that hump no problem. But for anyone who actually shoots, the trigger is 50% of your interaction with that weapon system. A lousy trigger is not a pleasant experience. But my opinion differs from yours, so I must be one of those "operators"

[@pluemas]

​@@jamesdendy6384 the point is that for the situation in which the rifle was designed, and it's use within a military context, the trigger "problem" is not an issue whatsoever. People complaining about the trigger are complaining about an entirely civilian issue of comfort and familiarity, as if this somehow makes the rifle inappropriate for use in a military context.

[@jamesdendy6384]

@pluemas not an issue per say, but I'd argue that in a mil/Leo setting (even civ in a defensive situation) a better trigger would be more appropriate. Better trigger = better inherent accuracy = less risk of collateral damage. That's not opinion, just fact. And to ensure I'm not misunderstood, I don't mean lighter when I say better. I mean not a crap ton of play. Not all that mush in bullpup triggers. And an actual clean break. Things that are common place in even milspec ar triggers.

[@pluemas]

@@jamesdendy6384 the mush trigger comes from the semi/automatic trigger mechanism they used. Civilians never got to experience those triggers and see their actual practical use (although they were a dumb idea). Later models didn't have that and have better triggers. The conscripts that used them wouldn't have benefited from a nice trigger all that much and the trigger the way it was was useful for safety. All military triggers are pretty heavy and long, for safety reasons. And in general, it is perfectly possible to be accurate without a typical AR15 style trigger feel. It's entirely just down to practice and what youre familiar with. I shot

[@stitchjones7134]

Only real flaw is the inability to switch hands in urban combat without the ejection port being a problem. Its why SF prefer the M4. The trigger lacks crispness, but that can be rectified. I would own a Steyr in a heartbeat, reliable, compact and accurate. I actually liked the original fixed scope when I had it, functioned like a carry handle. Stoppage drill: Down, tilt, cock, lock look in, change mag or fix the issue...its not that slow

[@richardthomas6602]

Bull pup has two tactical disadvantages that can't be eliminated with training. 1. Rail space for lights and lasers is not available. 2. Brass and gas in the face when switching shoulders is a real problem.

[@pluemas]

This isn't really true. Most modern bullpups have space for lasers and lights. Even the AUG and the SA80 in their modern configurations have plenty of space, the same as an M4. Most modern bullpups can also be shot with either shoulder, for example the vhs2 or any of the DesertTec designs. A lot of the older rifles actually can now too, with the proper technique. The British army teaches folk how to shoulder swap the L85 these days, you can see them do it on training footage.

[@natalyasparrow6748]

Theory: The AR-15 platform is perceived as the best light infantry rifle because it has the most exposure, both in terms of time of service and proliferation. Most countries don't have the level of gun culture that the US enjoys. Any problem with the system has had six decades of focused research and development to work the kinks out based on a massive dataset provided by the armed American populace as well as the US and its allies that fielded M16/M4 rifles across all the military and police actions they've been involved in since its inception. No other rifle system has that level of technical refinement. It's sad that the AUG, which is almost as old as the AR, didn't enjoy the same acceptance and development; it's a really solid rifle that definitely deserved more. As much as I watch and hope for a truly innovative light rifle concept, I think the best we're going to get for the time being are the AR lookalikes that the major arms manufacturers are pumping out these days. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@CalzaTheFox]

Steyr USA is releasing an M2 model that adds an m-lok handguard that you can actually c-clamp.

[@Kankudai69]

Interesting to hear almost no objective pros for the AR platform….

[@renflo86]

What holster is Henry wearing?

[@mtnbound2764]

i have an irrational distaste for bullpups.

[@frankholub4673]

I can assure you there are rational reasons to dislike them as well.

[@TertiaOculus]

I love my Aug

[@billydanzz]

Curious to know why bullpup makers haven't just added an 18" barrel and hung a handguard on it. Still an overall compact rig, longer handguard giving a more familiar support hand feel and 55gr range ammo out of an 18" giving more bang for the buck on the receiving end for defense.

[@alexandrevincenot6546]

Mostly because most of the bullpups are designed for military uses I would guess The civilian market (a.k.a the US civilian market) is probably not warm enough to bullpup for them to spend money on this

[@zoiders]

That would be the L85A3.

[@terrarecon]

Desert Tech WLVRN can be had in 16 inch or 20 inch barrel lengths

[@mdjak3686]

The only thing I don’t like about my X95 is the location of bolt release. Poor placement, easy to hit and it doesn’t hold well.

[@digitalpunk5365]

Aug videos get me everytime

[@terrarecon]

Because bullpups are not as standardized as the AR-15 platform, you have to be choosy which make and model you select for the best results. In my opinion, I don't think the Styr AUG is the right bullpup to compare. For one you mention grip and the inability to use a c-clamp. That is a default not of the bullpup design in general, but the Styr AUG itself. You could have used the Springfield Hellion or better yet, the Desert Tech WLVRN which is a modernized take on the bullpup from an American point of view that share some AR-15esk controls and grip placement. Also, you should do a review of all of the AR-15 based bullpup conversions such as the A3 Tactical TRIAD.

[@blk357]

I got a bullpup shotgun. Once you get used to them, they are badass. Shooters are shooters. If you are a shooter, you know how to conform to any shooting platform. You don't have to but get into the 21st century. Everything changes, but you don't have to.

[@arcblooper2699]

People forget that if a rifle is from a manufacturer with military/LE contracts, is magazine fed, and self loading, the differences in performance start to become negligible compared to the user’s ability.

[@bradborgelt60]

I have always felt my IDF 16 Tavor trigger is like my SW 29-2 trigger in the double action mode. Not ideal by America's standard but after a short time you forget about it.

[@hoilst265]

I am fairly certain 90% of the "ARs are better" commentary is really just "The AR is what I'm used to, therefore it's better" praise.

[@alorrick7546]

I designed my first bullpup in highschool. I made my paintball gun bullpup and a few airsofts and nerf. I enjoy bullpup alot and as an adult now a FFL 0702 and plan to make bullpups!

[@micumatrix]

Chinese and Israel have/had a bullpup. I think Poland build something that could be transformed in a bullpup and Kroatia also tested/build one (I think).

[@Csarci]

I wonder with electric triggers if that will help these designs.

[@MbisonBalrog]

They need make field swappable ambi ejection bullpups.

[@rickypickles2219]

i want to get a tavor just to have it but theyll never have the simplicity and ergonomics of an AR15

[@ericbergfield6451]

I'm a bullpup enjoyer

[@welderdude1]

Actually the main question is a very good one.

[@frosty3693]

With my extraordinarily limited experiance I found the rear weight of the bullpup off putting. And for the American market, the extra room for accessories makes said vendors, and their pocketbooks, happy.

[@Kriss_L]

Henry just talking about bullpups, and no mention of that wheel gun on his hip.

[@RagingShrimp67]

No mention of x95?

[@Robin6512]

I have both. First series aug with the weird 1.5 scope. I really really like that thing. My ar is like a Lego box. Don’t like that or this? Change. Aug? Nah, not so much.

[@Brazilian.Off.Duty.Cop.]

I would love to see a 300blk bullpup with a 8" or less barrel supressed package with a similar size as an AK74u or MK18.

[@terrarecon]

Desert Tech deserttech.com/media/catalog/category/wlvrn/gallery/WLV-Gallery-6.jpg

[@jasondevault5066]

Been saving up for aug

[@rsagmil]

it's all about cost and accessibility. Thanks to my nerd upbringing (sci-fi shows, comics, video games, etc) i have always thought bullpups were the coolest. I would love to own a FAMAS. Now that i am into real guns and see the price tags there is no competition. I can buy an entry level ar and upgrade it to match the level of my interest. No such luck for bullpups; even cheap ones are way more expensive than a decent ar and a bunch of ammo. I am hopeful that PSAs planned jakl bullpup will help with cost. Still really want a famas...

[@johnm5131]

funny to see that 20 years ago, experts mocked the traditional foregrip, all the SF and shooters went to vertical foregrips, now the experts say the exact same thing but in reverse. So, when does it swing back again?

[@jdfriar]

that aug is better with the 24 inch barrel.

[@davidcbrainard]

Eugene Stoner was a genius.

[@RogWhat]

Since the American Revolution young men in America have served in our military, become familiar with the then-current military arm, and preferred it later on in civilian life. Typically, over time, the military arm is replaced and becomes surplus and available to a civilian market. For instance, the bolt action that we all associate with civilian hunting rifles today was initially a state-of-the-art military repeating rifle. Combine those US-domestic facts with the Army's (at least former) long-standing predilection for choosing a domestic design and most young men today prefer an AR15. Ergo, US a large civilian market exists around this choice. In Europe, and elsewhere, it is a similar process with often-different design choices.

[@5150gtrman]

Great comparison .... The whole AR vs Bullpup thing is just a personal choice. With the AR the debate is over barrel length...Why? Because AR guys know short barrels are better for vehicles and rooms BUT they also know longer barrels are just better for sending the 5.56 with accuracy and power. So they either have 2 guns... or they have a 16 inch gun that kinda does both. With the Bull Pup you dont have to choose.... you get both....and it Rocks! The whole mag change BS argument is silly... I can mag change pretty quick with both BUT if youre a civilian and youre MAG changing 30 round mags in a gun fight, youve made a HUGE mistake! That is not a winning option for a single gun fighter IF a split second mag change is life or death, Bro...Run. Overall I love the AR .... BUT for real, the bull pup is just awesome.

[@whiterabit09]

You can get an AR10 that does this and not have to risk your life on a inferior platform to reload.

[@SammyTheSidePiece]

You know your a real enthusiast and or reached a certain level of maturity when your rollin with a Colt Python.

[@timb8970]

The trigger has been the main reason for people hating on bullpups. Although, the triggers are starting to get better.

[@jamesdendy6384]

Lol he said it's not bad. The AUG has one of the worst triggers ever made. Saying the data backed trigger differences is bologna is disingenuous at best if not an outright lie.

[@russr]

trigger and ergonomics... quickly swapping from right to left hand shooting

[@jordanthomas4193]

Now do Desert Tech WLVRN Vs Ar-15 Platform

[@loquat44-40]

the internet price for one is about $2K per Steyr AUG A3 M1 5.56. i doubt that is has the support in aftermarket parts and I can gunsmith an AR, but likely not the AIG. I like the principle of the bullpup, but not how the AUG is configured. The short overall length is its only selling point.

[@P46345]

I'm right handed and shoot handguns right handed, I'm also blind in my right eye which makes me a left handed rifle and shotgun shooter, tough if not impossible with some bull pups. ;-)

[@Dementore6]

Don't they have left handed bullpups?

[@P46345]

@@Dementore6Seems like they make a left handed everything now days, or something you can make left handed. I'll pass.

[@RaphYkun]

So why the long spiel?

[@P46345]

@@RaphYkunI don't know. Why the stupid question???

[@aaronfarnsworth7653]

@@Dementore6 The aug has a left hand bolt that can be bought and installed. The Springfield Hellion, aka HS produkt VHS, can be swapped but it takes some disassembly/reassembly. Same with the Tavors I think. Desert Tech recently discontinued a forward ejecting model that could also be swapped from side to side by merely swapping the port covers. Though you didn't need too to shoot from either side. Kel-Tec has a model that downward ejects behind the magazine and in front of the buttpad and a model that forward ejects by the muzzle. Both are good for either side. FN discontinued the FS2000 which was a forward eject by the muzzle and they still sell the PS90 which bottom ejects. Lefties and righties can easily use both.

[@Bulking_Smeagol]

I disagree about their popularity in recent years. Most militaries are dropping bullpups in favor of traditional designs

[@minagalexe]

A newbie question about these guns: if you take the stock rifles what you will say that has more quality guarantees that doesn't need an after job and aftermarket parts and searching? If you start from the same price, who will have the most complete rifle from the get-go?? I'm talking here about the quality of metals, the treatments of barrel and trunion..etc.

[@danielhenderson8316]

The biggest issue with your question is what do you consider a "stock" AR? Are we talking the super cheap options or are we starting with base milspec rifles like Colt?

[@minagalexe]

@@danielhenderson8316 with AR platform is very difficult to start with the price point because you find everything but I will staer from the other part. I will start with the Price of AUG, and his Price. Stoc. What type of iron you can buy with the price of AUG stock. I have this feeling that with the Stire, AUG, you already have a perfect gun. From the point of metal treatments, and ate tion to detail. Harry I'm not talking about the commodity, or bullpup versus classic. What do you think?

[@minagalexe]

@@danielhenderson8316 so, let s say $2,000 dollars. What do you think you can construct or buy a AR platform that is better than German AUG ?

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@minagalexe You can grab an LWRC DI Standard for MSRP $1,817 that has a cold hammer forged barrel like the AUG, but also has improved AR parts like full ambi controls on both sides for bolt lock, bolt release, safety, and mag release, choice of MLOK or proprietary rail system you can screw pic rails into for what you need, and an upgraded bolt carrier that coated in nickel boron to ease clean up and has a gas key built into the carrier instead of screwed in like others. They have piston models that start at $2,865 if piston is the only way you roll. To get the easily detachable barrel that isn't a quick upper receiver swap, LMT has the MARS AR platform that New Zealand went to after the Aussie built AUG that keeps the same ambi features of the LWRC but has a barrel you can swap by loosening 1 bolt, removing a second one, pull the barrel out, replace with a different barrel, screw both bolts tight, and you're good to go, but they're about the same price.

[@minagalexe]

@@danielhenderson8316 oh my God man. 🙏. I didn't deserve such a great answer! I didn't know about this options! I master reread and put on paper ! What you're saying look by far a match greater option. Sorry for my English is not my native language so I use a translator. Thank you very much! I will search here in Europe to see what I find in your options that you offer, and if the price more or less stay. Depending on manufacturer, the prices differ from there to here, depending if they cross the ocean or not. 🙏

[@Awootistic]

Henry: "Can you and should you go off-roading on a BMW?" Audi TT Quattro A2: "Yes"

[@tacticalrabbit308]

The AR platform can take anything from 22 long rifle to the 450 bushmaster in the AR-15 platform

[@mke259]

Which platform?

[@terrarecon]

While they have not been chambered in 450 Bushmaster yet, Desert Tech MDRX and WLVRN are modular and can also go from 5.56 to 300BLK, 308, and I think 6.5CM. I am sure more chamberings are in the future.

[@Hawtload]

the only problem with bullpups is that there aren't enough good ones to choose from

[@whiterabit09]

Any country that uses a bullpup rifle in the military, the population has no access to or experience with AR rifles. Note they all use AR platforms in their SF units. There is a reason the AR has been adopted by the better equipped, funded and experienced militaries.

[@cadian122]

The AUG is and has been my favourite fighting rifle for decades... Super reliable and well balanced and just pure sex...

[@timothycain4512]

I've tryed bullpups definitely isn't for me they feel like a big chunk of plastic junk with horrible triggers. And don't like the chamber of a rifle against my face either. But that's personal oppinion people like what they like. Noone I no runs bullpups. But a couple of them own them they just never run them. Im a hard-core AK guy. But run drills with ARs to. But also I've never been concerned over weight of a rifle. Some people try buying ultra light components to lose a pound. I've never understood that. I mean yea when your running a duper front heavy rifle for hours u do notice it. But u can also work thru it.

[@timinaz3738]

PS90, X95? Bullpups FTW!

[@AJ-xc4nm]

The one thing that made bullpups cool for me is the MDRX micron which is an 11.5 barrel 5.56 gun thats as short as a p90. That thing is rad.

[@danielhenderson8316]

@@AJ-xc4nmJames on TFBTV also ran a Tavor with a 11.5" barrel (all you need is a stamp and barrel swap) and ran that through the Urban Rifle Course. Thru the class he had to stop and throw a can on it because the concussion and blast was like getting flashbanged even outside.

[@Honeygooyumy69]

THAT WAS A QUESTION

[@MrEMann]

The Hellion has a more 'normal' handguard so not as unfamiliar as the stick grip on that one

[@animalsoul444]

i find the helion is the best overall bullpup actual out there it has everything

[@Honeygooyumy69]

THEY ARE A 16 INCH BARREL

[@John-f7z5i]

All the Brit’s I ever ment said they would prefer the m4 big reason it’s lighter

[@scholasticaltactical9058]

The AUG is a Porsche, it’s engine is in the rear. The AR is a ford F-150, DD a Knights guns are Ford Raptors.