LPVO vs Red Dot | 9-Hole Reviews

Henry Chan and Josh Mazzola of @9HoleReviews discuss the pros and cons of Red Dot Sights vs Low Power Variable Optics.
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[@108pel]

Good info.. like the revolver on the belt too

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Completely fits his rube narrative

[@armorers_wrench]

I've been wanting to see the URG-I on the practical accuracy course and the speedway for a while now. Hope we get that video soon, I wanna see how it stacks up against the Block II. That said I have both dots, LPVOs, and prisms(well, ACOGs) and I really like LPVOs but red dots are extremely practical for the average citizen especially if they're willing to buy a magnifier at some point to go with it. Personally, I do shoot out to 500m so an LPVO is nice to have but its not mandatory.

[@terrarecon]

I am an old school iron-sights trained, Marine Corps weapons instructor - PMI. Prior to ACOGs Marines used to shoot the KD qualification course at 200, 300, and 500 yards with iron sights. Most Marines usually achieved expert with iron-sights. Expert is the highest a Marine could achieve followed by sharpshooter, and lastly marksman. I utilize magnified optics on my personal arms. They take shooting to a whole other level. However, people need to still be able to shoot with iron-sights as a back-up. Red-Dots + a Magnifier or LPVOs are leaps ahead and offer choices.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

I’m certain you had a pizza box on your chest. As if that qualification is difficult or useful.

[@rustyshackleford6318]

Just put my fries in the bag bro

[@PistonDrivenGun]

Pit Love

[@edwardkerr5985]

235 w iron @edson range , 500m =546.8 yds , almost 50 yds further at Pendleton than at P.I. for late 70's scoring system, wish I had optics then 😏

[@Dan-di9jd]

I'm old school too. Trained with the a2 sight. I was not fond of magnified optics until recently. At the time, we didn't have flattops so we had to use this screw mounted thing but I always thought optics were hard because you can easily misalign your eyes and you'd get a completely different impact point. So I never used one until we got a flattop and this really old style EOTech with the AA batteries. At first I thought it was bad but after using it, it became my favorite and found you didn't have to align correctly at all.

[@jonenglish6617]

interesting to see a professional review. Love the channel

[@leroyjenkins4811]

To tell the truth, I use both. I run an LPVO with an offset red dot. I don’t actually use the offset red dot for much as my LPVO is daylight bright. The offset red dot is there for quick target transitions for up closer targets. That way I don’t have to change the magnification on my LPVO just to make a close up shot. It’s a little bit heavier than the LPVO alone but I like not having to mess with my scope. The offset red dot is a great time saver.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Add an ACOG to cover all your bases. You are a civilian, you will only make up close shots and if you think you’ll have time to rotate your mag for a longer shot in your fantasy world, you won’t.

[@leroyjenkins4811]

@@HWG-wm8ld Don’t make assumptions. I’m not exactly a “civilian”. You have no idea what my needs are or what I’m involved in. If your setup works for you, great. But an ACOG alone wouldn’t do it for me. What is this “rotating your mag” statement about? I’m not rotating anything and how do mag changes play into this? Instead of fumbling with the LPVO and trying to refocus it for close shots, I just change my cheek weld to put the red dot on the target and I squeeze the trigger. The whole transition takes a fraction of a second. It’s quick, easy, and most of all fast! What are you talking about?

[@Al-no2fm]

Yeh Im surprised they didnt address the elephant in the room which was the red dot on top of the LPVO. Feel like that ends the debate.

[@user-vk3il9fs3m]

Dots on top are for NVGs. Not for "shooting up close" during the day.

[@leroyjenkins4811]

@@user-vk3il9fs3m Wrong. I paid for the equipment. Therefore, I can use it any way I like. If I want to use an offset red dot for up close shooting because I don’t want to mess with the magnification on my LPVO in a pinch, that’s my business. Using an offset dot for up close work instead of changing magnification is a 3 gun technique that transferred over to the military. See, this is how I know many of you aren’t participating in ANY training. You people aren’t getting out and shooting. Many of your techniques exist in their own little unimaginative box and you aren’t trying anything new, nor are you open to the adaptability of learning something new. Case in point, Josh is not a veteran, but Henry is. Josh’s pedigree is as a 3 gun shooter. The reason he runs an offset red dot is precisely because he uses it for up close work and target acquisition. Henry, being a veteran, has adapted some of Josh’s 3 gun techniques into his own shooting. They’ve made videos about it. I say all of this because you’re forgetting the purpose of firearms training. The purpose of training is to learn new things. The fact that so many of you have self limited your ability to be exposed to new things because “I’m a civilian and civilians don’t need to be doing certain things” is telling. And you’re limiting yourselves primarily because you don’t see a need to invest in the techniques and equipment because you probably can’t afford anything. Because you can’t afford anything, you try to tell other people they don’t need to invest in something either. Someone in a previous comment suggested that as a civilian, all I needed was a ACOG and I’d be good to go. Guess what? I used ACOG’s in the military. I don’t use an ACOG because I don’t like them. They’re very expensive for what they are while offering very little in the way of usability for what I want. I can afford optics that are even better. Can you? If someone thinks an ACOG is the Holy Grail of optics, you haven’t used many optics before.

[@curly__3]

Love the vids, Larry! Thanks.

[@jeffb5781]

Truly an excellent discussion with lots of details.

[@richc767]

Henry what is the revolver in your holster?

[@user-cg5nx6fz5c]

Im getten a model 29 vibe, AKA Dirty Harry

[@irafowlerjr.7492]

Helpful, really enjoy and learn. Thanks

[@francismacomber4650]

The man is carrying a revolver! Way to go!!

[@r.l.royalljr.3905]

A nice compromise between the two is a good FFP LPVO with an illuminated circle dot or horseshoe reticle. At 1x you've got a pretty decent red dot that can turn into a graduated sight as you zoom in closer.

[@rgr3427]

Good breakdown and on the points.

[@htr2die4]

Great video.. best to have two setups 😉 - and what holster is that for the revolver?

[@BigTexOrdnance]

Nice job guys!

[@rpnbf8196]

Have you done a video with the Geissele at distance?

[@daniele.f.2963]

Thanks guys.

[@alanniederlitz8630]

Nice, great vid

[@chills097]

Love that agilite belt you are rocking 👌

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Don’t think he goes that way

[@doghousedon1]

I'll take the LVPO any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Around here, 500 yards is a chip shot. Thanks for the vid.

[@1977Yakko]

With my Sig M400 Tread, I initially started out with a Sig Romeo MSR red dot and that worked fine for out to 50 yds with my less than stellar eyesight. I added the Sig Juliet x3 magnifier to help me get out to 100 yds though I still struggle a bit. (I'm blind in my right eye, trifocal in my left eye... long story) Last year, I added a Sig Romeo MSR 1-8x24 LPVO. So far I've only zeroed it at 50 yds but with the the weather getting nicer, I'll be getting out to the outdoor range I'm a member at and I'll stretch its legs out to 100 yds and beyond in the near future. But the close range shooting is important too so I'll have to be mindful and take it into the 25 yd pits as well.

[@michaelzschoche2746]

I like both. What rifles are those? Manufacturer and model? They look super cool.

[@vpowpow4033]

I finally caved and bought a Trijicon VCOG 1-8. All of my other rifles have a dot, a dot and a magnifier, or an ACOG. Verdict is still out.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Each tool has its purpose. The guns with magnifcation are good for hunting game and shooting competitions.

[@99Racker]

Not part of the illustrate frequented discussion is no magnifier with the red dot to balance out the other sight equipment power. Always appreciate the discussion.

[@I_Poke_Holes_In_Paper]

Josh, I too am cross dominant and rock the "Forest Whittaker" eye technique.

[@pjoffrion]

I have astigmatism and find the illuminated reticle on my steiner 1-4 is a lot easier to see and use at distance. At cqb distances i would give a slight edge to the red dot. I love the steiner though. Very clear glass.

[@dean757]

I have two lwrc carbines. One piston and one DI. I have a razor 1-6 on the DI gun and an eotech on the piston gun. Also have a 5x magnifier which I rarely use but have. So they're within half a pound. Although they can both work at any distance I consider the lvpo gun the far away gun and the eotech gun the closeup gun. Options are good.

[@ricko2766]

I love your reviews and subbed your channel a long time ago, but between the two of you do you even own a can of spray paint? I can't recall EVER seeing you shoot freshly painted steel.

[@douglasb5651]

The other consideration that maybe they should have addressed is battery life. An Aimpoint can be left on and run for far longer than most LVPOs with illuminated reticles (or at least the ones I've looked at).

[@9HoleReviews]

I think you can replace 'most' with 'all' LOL. We probably could/should have hit on that a little harder - but that's partly why we were saying we just shoot the LPVOs black with no illum on

[@tylerhall6455]

I love both. I'm not sure what I like more, but the red dot with a flip over 3x magnifier is something Im just testing out and seems pretty sweet too. I got rifles with both a comp m4 and a vortex razor hd 1-6, so quality stuff. Get both is ultimately the answer but if your set on just a one rifle setup, and dont have the extra cash, just get a decent red dot. You can add a magnifier later if you want as long as the red dot you bought isn't low quality glass.

[@tufftrucker40]

Keep rockin the revolver Henry.

[@kevinhullinger8743]

Well done 👍 I switch from Red dot with 3x magnifier to 1x8 LPVO with no regrets. If you do not train stay with your red dot, if you train/practice the LPVO is better multitasker and target identifier at long range. FYI, My range is set up from 25 yards up to 300

[@HWG-wm8ld]

You will never use your rifle and if the one in a billion chance arrives you do, it won’t be past 20 yards.

[@joejkd82]

@@HWG-wm8ld By this logic, you'll probably never use the rifle or any gun at all, so don't buy any guns ever. Save the $2000-$3000 in gear one typically spends to put towards your mortgage or a better apartment or more insurance. Actually, you probably won't use some of your insurance, either, so you should get rid of that, too. Most people don't live their lives off of actuarial tables, and you don't either no matter how grizzled of a vet you want to sound like online.

[@michaelclifford8376]

What belt and holster is Henry using in this video, curious also as to what pistol he is carrying

[@223dmr7]

I was wondering the same thing

[@EricDaMAJ]

It looks like a US military black Load Bearing Equipment belt that was quite common in the late 1970s to early 2000s used by both the US Army and Marine Corps. IDK about the revolver.

[@61E3]

I guess my question is, what price point for the LPVO will get you a quality LPVO VS. a quality red dot.

[@strider8933]

I carried an EOTECH with an A2 front sight with a true co-witness for years as my duty piece. Now, I have a Vortex LPVO. Different missions, different equipment. Mission specific. Still do just fine as to CQB.

[@AthelstanKing]

No such thing as "just fine". Its either better or worse. An LPVO is worse for cqb.

[@strider8933]

And just how much "CQB" do you actually DO as a civilian??? Are you a civilian? I taught this stuff for 30 years both in the Marines, CIRT team instructor, and civilian instructor. A TRUE 1 power LPVO has a very similar objective and one can keep both eyes open and have a similar field of view. Would I rather have my old Eotech? Maybe. But my drill times are virtually identical and i now have more precise long range accuracy. Understand, my "just fine" is NOT average! @@AthelstanKing

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Dude is a dreamer. Strider, is the sky blue in your world

[@strider8933]

Yes it is! Although, there was this really beautiful red and orange cast to the sunset yesterday. Stunning!@@HWG-wm8ld

[@WordSaladSpeachWriter]

Have 14.5” with red dot and magnifier, and a 16” with 1-8x24 LPVO. Like both setups for different situations.

[@matthewriegner5180]

Another consideration is that magnification is king for id especially camouflaged targets at even closer distances. Magnifiers are a must if running a red dot. Even if just a qd mounting one to slap on as needed.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

100% wrong, unless you are hunting game.

[@skydancerforever]

Great info, Now how about on a 9mm S&W response carbine that has nothing after 150yds? I guess you proof you can use both types of optics at 35 yds. What is more praticle on a 9mm carbine?

[@jck197]

What lowers are you both using?

[@Watchdog_UFOtestpilot]

I chose the Trijicon SCO 1-8 with LaRue tactical mount for my 16” .308. I have Troy irons but you’d have to remove the SCO to use the rear currently. I have a Leupold DPP on my P220 that I don’t like on the pistol and may put on my DD5 in the offset to test. Honestly though, the SCO on 1x with the reticle illumination on is crazy good IMO, and is only slightly slower at acquisition and transition than a red dot optic. For my uses I could leave well enough alone but the redundant redundancies might come in useful at some point. 😂

[@minuteofcan]

What is the right amount of magnification on your LPVO?

[@Jordan882007]

Man I wanted that revolver to come out !

[@M1911jln]

I have an LPVO on one AR and an Aimpoint red dot with 3X magnifier on the other. Out to 100 yards, I greatly prefer the red dot. The red dot is noticeably lighter and has effectively unlimited eye relief. My LPVO is a very expensive Vortex, but compared to a red dot, the eye relief simply sucks -- it is much harder to get behind the scope. For defensive purposes, unless you live in a very rural setting, I see little use for an LPVO.

[@jackwicker]

Josh how are ya likin the lone wolf glonk?

[@ChemistyStudent]

My NVG compatible upper has an Eotech because of how much closer your engagement range has to be in the dark; my go-to upper has an MPVO (2.5-10) and that's a hill I'm not getting off of. It's easy to go to the range and knock steel/paper when it's static, clearly visible, and you know where it is. Try doing that at an unknown distance range that you've never seen before, you don't know where the targets are and there are 1/2 or 1/3rd shoot/no-shoots mixed around. I don't know about you but I'd rather have magnification for that exercise. The versatility you get from even 2.5x is absolutely worth it. Ethically and legally I'd also just say that you don't get to take shots at things you can't clearly see and ID as a threat that warrants deadly force. For all you know it's just an acorn that hit some sheet metal.

[@terrarecon]

9:30 Josh makes a good argument about becoming proficient with an LPVO on 1 magnification and bridging the gap that a red dot has, all while a red dot is mounted on his LPVO lol

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

Seems like all we need is better (cheaper, etc...) ACOG alternative with red dot sitting on it.

[@googleemailaccount7746]

Hey Hey Listen to me... I was wondering about this for a week now and you guys release a video. On it... With the URGI upper... God is sending me a sign!!

[@Tsensabaugh5]

What type of grip is on the LPVO rifle?

[@TheDoomWizard]

My Sightmark M-spec with 5x magnifier is excellent out to 200 yds. Think SHTF it'll be 100 yards a lot just like most military engagements.

[@brandonrupp5880]

I've found that a good QD mount for your optics makes it easy to swap the roles your rifle can fill and still retain acceptable zero.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Wow, is that why they made them?

[@hopewilliams6705]

I have a prairie dog target at 200 that is to scale and it's kinda hard to see without magnification

[@chrismyers906]

I have an astigmatism and considering a dual microprism setup. A 1x on the primary position and a 3 or 5x on the offset. Fast, etched glass, and no heavier than red dot with magnifier. Plus you can sight it in at dual ranges.

[@Brimwald]

Not sure I've seen a magnified prism offset. You should probably switch those around or use a magnifier for you 1x

[@anhzig]

I think an Elcan 1x/4x might be what you're looking for.

[@grayman7208]

diggin' the revolver, which begs the question, why is your red dot not mounted on a lever action ? )

[@greyghostnw]

4-16 or 3-18 be my jam

[@jakethemistake19]

4-16 + 12o clock piggy is what lives on my AR10. 1-6 lives on my 16"

[@c.r.chandler5905]

Love seeing the ole Roscoe on the belt.

[@hopewilliams6705]

Got some High quality commercial creators there!

[@mobilegamersunite]

Depends how old your LPVO is, and how good the 1x value is

[@2amichaelj]

I personally like them both. I prefer LPVOs but I also use red dots. Newer shooters will benefit from red dots easier than LPVOs. The learning curve is much less and they're easier to use and more intuitive than LPVOs.

[@chipsterb4946]

Good compare and contrast. An Eotech red dot with a 3x magnifier is dead simple and very flexible IMHO. Still weighs less than a Vortex PST Gen II 1-6 LVPO. I wish that someone would address the tradeoffs when you start looking at 1-8x or even 1-10x LVPOs. To me, 1-4x to 1-6x makes sense. Even with a second focal plane reticle. Once you go to 1-8x, I have to ask if first focal plane is necessary and, if so, what are the trade offs. Personally I’d rather have a 1-5x with excellent optics and light weight *for my purposes* because shooting over 400 yards is highly unlikely where I live. YMMV

[@Crosshair84]

1-8x and 1-10x are not worth it for most people in my opinion. The eyebox at those magnifications is so small as to be largely impractical to use for most people. The image also tends to be dimmer due to these scopes usually still having a small objective. Personally, a 1-4x or 1-6x is what I tell people to get with a LPVO. If you want/need more than 6x, just get a proper 3-9x40 (or similar) and put an offset BUIS or red dot for anything close. A 1-10x LPVO is like trying to haul lumber on a 50cc mopod. You can do it, but there really are better options.

[@BoloBane]

Run a mini RMR on top of your scope or like my long gun 6.5CM I run a RMR at a 45 for a fast target and when they stop I just roll back straight up and never lose my cheek weld

[@ditzydoo4378]

Well, considering the average M-16 now M-4 shooter in the military is drilled on engaging targets out to 400-plus meters with Iron-sights, the Red-Dot is simply a quicker way of aligning the rifle with said target. As you've shown the 1x Plus Sights give better ID of said targets at longer ranges without the need to carry Binoculars. But I still use Bino's for scanning areas.

[@buckaroobonsi555]

Starting with the 3x-9x scopes from 1980 through 1990 on hunting rifles and shotguns I stoped carrying bino and just turned my scopes down to lowest setting usualy 2.5x-3x and used that to glass with. Most of my shots on deer and larger are under 300 meters often under 100 meters so bino's really are not a must have for me. Just like I do not need a range finder for 99.9% of my shooting either because I know the range to target in the area's I shoot or they are under the point blank range of the cartridge I am shooting.

[@ditzydoo4378]

@@buckaroobonsi555 True that but having a handy light weight pair of Bino's makes it much easier to glass a lot of country without the fatigue of lifting and lower the rifle all the time. but that's just me. ^~^

[@flopus7]

bad news but we stop shooting irons after basic and we don't learn them to 400. I had no idea how to adjust the front sight post until I got out.

[@ditzydoo4378]

@@flopus7 Wow.... 0~o that's really a shame that.

[@flopus7]

@@ditzydoo4378 never needed to use irons. We shot aimpoints and acogs and they're nigh indestructible. Front sight post was just an annoying piece of metal limiting my handguard length.

[@Id_fight_a_bear]

What are the hand guards they’re using?

[@gabriellorenzana2374]

Geissele mk16 13.5 with Slate Black Industries M-lok panels

[@alanniederlitz8630]

Vickers did a video for Aimpoint Challenge. His fave optic is the Aimpoint and he shot it to 600 yds and hit a steel torso..

[@DefZen343]

take that aimpoint to an SPR match and see how you do lol, plinking at stuff that's very easy to see and under your terms is one thing, actually hitting targets at different distances, conditions, positions and target sizes under time pressure is completely different. without magnification you cant even spot your own misses.

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

@@DefZen343 "without magnification you cant even spot your own misses." - You don't get to miss if you can't really see your target ;-).

[@djz2308]

What kind of pistol grips we got going here?

[@Maryland_Kulak]

I have lot of guns and lots of optics. I also was an infantry soldier for 29 years and 2 months. My defensive rifle set up is iron sights with tritium front sight post and a light mounted on the rail. Anyway, I can put that tritium front sight post on a target at room distances quicker than I can do it with a red dot. I don’t have to turn on my tritium front sight post. It doesn’t fog up. It doesn’t give away my position. It doesn’t run out of batteries. I also have a real honest to God Aimpoint. On a sunny day, I can barely see the dot. Iron sights work in all conditions.

[@thiccfork8664]

Does anyone know the revovler holster Henry is wearing? I feel a need in my soul for it lol.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Uncle mikes rube special

[@daheroweneed2169]

0-300 yards - red dot with magnifier. shooting beyond 300 yards, then LPVO. As mentioned, it is more challenging to shoot on the move with a LPVO. It is surprisingly easy to be outside of the eye box of the LPVO. But for a red dot, as long as you can see the dot, you can get hits.

[@damondiehl5637]

Is it possible to retrain your eyes? I'm left eye dominant but right handed. I have always shot with my left eye closed.

[@thisissparta8884]

Get an eye patch and use it when dry firing.

[@johnnyh3653]

I was able to using a handgun (both red dot and irons). I started by turning my head slightly to the left and squinting my left eye just a little. I quit needing to squinting after a few range trips. As for using an lpvo, I have to close my left eye since it is just too dominant.

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

Try eye patch that is somewhat transluscent and wear it when doing daily stuff at home.

[@justinmurray4652]

Would never be totally dependent on batteries.Dream setup would be an elcan 1-4 with a 2x forward magnifier.I like the idea of prism scope toughness.

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

That doesn’t even make sense. Which Nintendo game did you get that idea from?

[@imberaeris6768]

25 yards is a really short trade off point for a red dot. I tend to find consistency and speed goes to the red dot 75 and under. I don’t feel the LVPO pulls much ahead a magnifier setup until bullet drop really starts to kick in (400 yards for most of my setups)

[@buckaroobonsi555]

I live in a small city of 1500 people and 3000 people in the entire county. I have a police station, town hall and fire department 100m from my door, the County seat and courthouse 25m from my front porch and a middle school and highschool exactly 400m from my front porch. I have 8 neighbors between 25m to 100m ringing around my land which is about 100m in all but one direction. So from a deffense standpoint and a line of sight standpoint I do not need or want a lot of optic. When I lived int he country and my nearest neighbor was a mile away in any direction it was a different story. So I think you have to take environment into context. If you do not live in a rural area chances are you likely have way more optic than is idea with anything that is not a reddot! The longest shot I could take in my neighborhood with out hitting a house, school, public building is maybe 250m and it is a swath of land that is maybe 40 feet wide and anyone that came through that area would be crossing paved parking lots open on each end and well light 24/7 almost impossible to move through with out being silhouttee unless you low crawled all the way and there where vechiles in the parking lot to hide your movement otherwise it would be a kill zone.So just things to keep in mind when looking at optics. I would not be likely to bug out I would bug in! I would shelter in place in 90% of situations. I have fresh water river that is wide and deep year round maybe 200 yards from my home with fishing and boat launch and farm fields also not town with huge deer population year round 400m from home. Happy mix of being in small town with big city support but less than a mile to be in rural area's.

[@jumrobe]

There's a reason you see offset and piggyback dots in 3 gun. It's because the dot is easier up close when you want to go fast.

[@Mrgunsngear]

🔴

[@arighteousname5882]

Are those upoers URGI's?

[@scott2228]

A rifle with each is the answer I came up with. Works extremely well. But taking a carbine class where all shots are within 25 yards the clear winner is a red dot.

[@gulkash1188]

As a long time RDS guy who is working on transitioning to the LPVO the biggest hurdle is getting the gun mounted perfectly every time. It's not *during* the shooting that you lose speed, it's getting to that first round.

[@johnnyh3653]

I also have trouble using an lpvo with both eyes open. I shoot right handed but I'm left eye dominant. It's not a problem with a red dot but I struggle with the lpvo.

[@gulkash1188]

@@johnnyh3653 another common issue that is exacerbated by the LPVO. Have a good friend who is in the same boat to the point that he has had to start learning to shoot rifles lefty

[@tylerbrown8026]

Ugh I’ve got a Holosun SCRS but I want an LPVO.

[@paulyp9853]

I have 3 setups with LPVO's and two with a dot and a magnifier. With that said my LPVO setups all have offset red dots at 45 degrees. If I need 1x it is very quick to tilt the firearm and get on the red dot without throwing the magnification lever. All the while keeping the LPVO on whatever magnification level needed. So when the debate comes up of which one to run.......I say run both because you can. Nothing is better than a good dot at 1x. So anything out to 50 yards I am covered...at least. LPVO's normally have two weak points........max magnification and 1x. Some are better than others but those are the usual weak spots. I have taken care of half of them with an offset red dot. I know...I know... the weight the weight. I dont care. I rather have the optic advantage and worry about an extra few ounces later.

[@ianbantjes3785]

Get both and use it as the situation dictates.

[@wadesafool]

Do prisms next!

[@joehuff4025]

I’m a fan of LPVS’s, nothing wrong with a red dot, I have aging eyes so I enjoy magnification at distance over 100. I enjoy the BDC system in scopes.

[@MrFra1ler]

Torn between the razor gen iii and the atacr 1-8

[@dennisdavid9588]

Out to 100 yards it would take a lot of practice to get on target as fast as I can with my eotech. Add a magnifier and it’s relatively easy to shoot out to 4-500.

[@nathantrest2345]

Why don't folks use a good quality scope with an offset reflex sight instead of an LVPO and still using an offset reflex? (are LVPOs better or lighter than a quality 3-9 scope?)

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

@@Floridaman855 If the selling point of LPVO (vs fixed) is having 1x capability, then mounting x1 red dot sort of proves how much it is worth it. Fixed x5 with red dot will be much lighter.

[@Zel_eo]

I run an Eotech with a Primary arms 3x roll on to split the diff. Within 15-20 yards, put the red ouchie circle over their center and pull the trigger for a hit. Also, the built in ranging mechanic of the reticle allows, with practice, a decent estimator of distance to around 300 yards. Battery life and weight are the biggest downsides imo...remember to pack extra electric sticks and a set of irons lol.

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

At 15-20 yards you can just point rifle at target without really aiming at still hit reliably, so what's the point of expensive holo?

[@Zel_eo]

@@randomnobodovsky3692 The "red ouchie circle" was referring to the 68 moa ring the Eotech has. At 15 yards it is roughly the same width and height (when viewed) as a human torso. Thus, if the circle is on their chest, you get a hit. CQB is muscle memory and flash sight pictures my man.

[@rbselfdefense3868]

Just to mess things up, you should take in consideration the prism optics 😂😂

[@billhatcher2984]

Myself my TOTis way better with a dot but on my 20 inch barrel I have a low. Power optic it's a 2 to 7 would like to have a new optic with a higher top mag

[@jordanyang3066]

Henry likes irons and carries a revolver as a sidearm. Dont change Henry..lol

[@Kyks2244]

The second you use a VTac barrier (weird angle) the Dot goes way up in value same for shooting on the move.

[@thisissparta8884]

Lpvo on my 16s, and red dots on my 10.5, and 7.5.

[@sansenoy]

Military perspective, you use red dot + magnifier when you don't know exactly what you're walking into, LPVO when the area's well scouted.

[@Dero_milsurp]

What is this claim even based on?

[@sansenoy]

@@Dero_milsurp just what i heard from some local enlisted, here in Europe

[@bigdog5880]

Ehh red dot is good for cqb and urban environments. LPVO is good for rural areas.

[@Dero_milsurp]

@@bigdog5880 urban can have longer range than rural.

[@noahruff6894]

Sooo can I address the elephant in the room and bring attention to that sweet revolver retention holster? What is that rig and where can I find it?

[@Mr229357]

Like the six shooter on your belt. Good video 😊👍🏻👍🏻

[@jim99west46]

At that distance. 1 have your lvpo lens cap flip up not to the side. 2 just shoot over your flipped up lens cap. Try it on paper to see where that poa meets poi. Basic cqb technique.

[@gator7082]

How about both! America baby!

[@buckaroobonsi555]

You need to also account for peoples past training like GWOT and the 100K+ men that used red dots then red dots with magnifiers. It might not be worth it to invest in new gear and the time to re-train to use that new gear as well. You also have to look at peoples eye sight. I have a family member that was a soldier and has owned and was issued reddot then LPVO during his military career. As a civilian he much prefers a reddot with magnifier because of his eye sight. He wears very thick glasses and in a tactical environment where speed is important and situational awareness is paramont a reddot with magnifier works better for him he has less issues with artafacts in the image and paralax that way. For a lot of people even those with less than ideal eyesight this is not an issue but his eyesight is really at the extreme edge of accaptable. No one ever seems to ask people at the extreme limits of eye sight both good and bad for their input. In my youth I had 20/08 eyesight which is at the limit for extremly good eyesight. I could shoot better with iron sights than most men could shoot with scopes of the day. Today at 50 years old my dominate eye is not so hot and iron sights are not my best option today even with my glasses on. I have gone to optics on everything even my 22LR's and my leverguns! It just seems like no one discusses the pro's and cons of irons, reddots and LVPO's from the stand point of peoples eye sight and any problems they mave have with getting their brain, eye's and sighting systems to all play nicely with each other! Cheer's!

[@evanf7334]

What really grinds my gears with the lpvo conversation is how barely any guntubers mention how delicate lpvos are. They are prone to breaking from a good drop. Unless you have a nightforce, you’re lpvo is much more at risk to breaking than an aimpoint or eotech.

[@josefernandosilva5793]

Recently I found myself jumping from one system to another depending on the type of "training". I noticed that I was wasting a lot of time, energy and ammunition re-zeoring...I stopped and focused on the LPVO (in my case it also has a red dot). However, the system is really heavy for anyone who spends a full day at the shooting range...at least for anyone who is a classical musician. Nowadays, I find it strange that manufacturers don't find a solution to reduce the total weight of this system... at least for sports and leisure use. The recoil in this type of weapons is not significant, this simplification of the LPVO should not be difficult... as a very, very studied person, I find it strange this "market parcel" is not yet occupied... .

[@randomnobodovsky3692]

Fixed x3 or x5 prism sight weights less than LPVO and that level of magnification doesn't really hurt close range shooting.

[@onpsxmember]

It's a complex optical system with small adjustable turrets and several lenses. Go make glass weigh less, disable the physics of the distances needed between them and use something lighter than titanium to house it so it won't get damaged easily. If you're so studied, go and fill that market, patent it and get rich.

[@josefernandosilva5793]

@@onpsxmember Why not use Carbon Fiber (which has much better mechanical behavior than aluminum) to manufacture the optics housing? why not a Carbon Fiber mounting solution? Why not take advantage of the potential of 3D printing? ...the problem is that you live permanently in schizophrenia in fear of being invaded....99.9% of the civilian weapons you have will always be used in a controlled environment, on a shooting range, and will never be used in a armed conflict environment.

[@josefernandosilva5793]

@@randomnobodovsky3692 yes..agree. Will be my next investment.

[@tacticalrabbit308]

This is for both hosts what do you think of a 44 cal. AR-10 over all lenght of 2.600 , case lenght of 2.300 inches shooting a 300 grain 44cal bullet ? Your thoughts please.

[@loquat44-40]

Your second and third shots are quite fast. It is the delay between seeing your target and firing the first shot that hits that is most important. For the home, my go to is a plain jane barrel 12 ga pump gun. That is simply '''pointed'' at what needs holes holes from buckshot. The AR is for longer distances. Really difficult legally to justify long range shot scenarios as self defense even in a stand your ground state. If we have a world without rule of law than ranges at which you might shoot someone may be longer. Most of my ARs and AKs have red dot optics for legal reasons on the pistols, for financial reasons on rifles, and that they are more minimalist in the guns profile. I do have an LPVO on a 6.5 g. I do not plan shooting much past 200 yards.

[@davidhauk4163]

LPVO 1-6 SFP, w/ ACSS best overall.

[@Texasbroski512]

Thumbnail rifle is sick

[@jeffgeesaman4386]

Another factor is are you considering NVG's.