Burkean Conservatism vs. Wokeness (feat. Scruton and Peterson)

[@sue.F]

It always encouraging to see Sir Roger Scruton even if his ideas are condensed to mere snippets.

[@ClydsdaleVI]

So the conservative who resists change is as valuable as the radical who proposes it---perhaps as much more valuable as roots are more vital than grafts. It is good that new ideas should be heard for the sake of the few that can be used; but it is also good that new ideas should be compelled to go through the mill of objection, opposition, and contumely; this is the trial heat which innovations must survive before being allowed to enter the human race. It is good that the old should resist the young, and that the young should prod the old; out of this tension, as out of the strife of the sexes and the classes, comes a creative tensile strength, a stimulated development, a secret and basic unity and movement of the whole. - The Lessons of History by Will Durant

[@xshotgunmessage]

The problem is that we are completely out of balance

[@mikitz]

This sounds like the optimal balance for any healthy society. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case for most of nations now or ever before. However, it is crucial that we even know how to build a more sustainable society in general in order ever to achieve it.

[@anng.4542]

More resources available from the Edmund Burke Society (at the Russell Kirk Center) and the Edmund Burke Foundation.

[@donnaharris8097]

Now i understand - and im almost 57 , thry should teach this at top school !

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Thanks for posting.

[@condelevante4]

I think modern science is showing up the limitations of our concepts of rationalism. For example Feudalism is an example of an emergent system, which derives from scale and includes many many small components following simple rules (oaths of feality) - similar to Ant colonies - even evolution which is not visible to the actors inside the play. This emergent reality is beyond the comprehension of the individual node (the ant or the human). Burkes wisdom was based on a humility towards history and tradition and he was on the right track.

[@BenHurensohn]

2:08: BRAVO!

[@matthewguzda4075]

Hey its good kids are politically aware but as you get older you realize its easy to have opinions and be self righteous if you have nothing to lose. But things change immediately if a situation can cost you. If youve got something to lose. Kids are raised being given shelter heat food entertainment. Then once youre old enough to be in the working world you get a wake up call.

[@KevMuso]

That's all very well, but contemporary conservatives don't seem to be behaving in the way that is described here.

[@MrDavidbr1970]

How does it behave then?

[@ubergenie6041]

It seems that we need more that the assumption traditions formed over time are the basis for a good society. Slavery was a tradition practiced by almost all nations for 4000 years of recorded history yet Great Britain and then the Republican Party in the US ended it. Remember that the American Indians practiced slavery and supported the South (Democrats) in the Civil War. We also can look at traditions in Islamic regimes that follow sharia law 😮 Honor killings, religious persecution of Christians and Jews, bigamy, child rape are all supported by these cultures and seem as tradition! So the argument made by Burke also misses a central feature of the US Republic, namely that its origin of human rights comes from God directly through the people!😮 Although Burke’s approach slows down progressives that quickly try to steal power from the people to rule over them it fails to ask the origin of the moral duties and therefore maintains the bad with the good alike😅

[@epicphailure88]

The abolitionist movements ended slavery in the US. The conservatives in the Democrat and Republican parties wanted to keep it. Also Great Britain still enslaved other people like in India and Ireland.

[@danielstannard128]

The problems with the analytical approach espoused by both Burke and Peterson is that they're devoid, or appear to be, of interpreting antithetical conflicts that arise from the current mode of production that conservative ideology champions. Peterson, in classic Peterson fashion, ignores the role and ramifications of what global economic hegemony entails. It's 100% NIMBY argumentation. Slow and steady conservative progression for some, ruthless military upheaval for others, both being delivered by the same body/system. Less Jung and more Marx would probably help deliver him and his followers from the egotistical voyage of self sacrifice they believe they're on.

[@lauriethompson740]

I increasingly get the value of appreciating the best of 'the tradition' and the dangers of radical change, but there's an assumption in the right's presentation of this that need challenging, it assumes all the radicalism is coming from the left. That may have been true in Burke's time, during the French Revolution, BUT actually what followed was equally driven by 'right wing radicalism' i.e. modern Capitalism. That was the engine of massively populous cities that help break the social structures of the 'ancien régime', Marxism was in many ways REACTIVE to that 'conservative revolution', which sounds a contradiction in terms, but actually that's exactly what you see in modern so called 'conservative' political parties, they are a strange mix of neo-liberal libertarianism and old school 'moral majority, conservative with a small c' outlooks.

[@epicphailure88]

Marxism was a reaction to the failure of Liberalism to abolish classes.

[@briank.9476]

No one take Peterson seriously. Consider the lobster!

[@danielpye7738]

Positive radical changes in our lives are driven by markets and not political means. Where people get to choose the form of en masse through voting with their feet and wallets. That’s the first thing a conservative understands a radical won’t. Anytime the politics drives the radical changes it normally ends up being trouble for those countries. Politically stable countries can just let their people get on with it.

[@epicphailure88]

Except that essentially means that people with the most money get the most votes. Which means stuff like pornography and OnlyFans are here to stay for a long time. Conservatism really is an incoherent ideology.

[@talisikid1618]

So , Jesus wasn’t a conservative. Interesting. But then maybe your definition of conservative is wrong. What you describe here is not a conservative but a conformist. Big difference.