Butt Kickin' 5.56 Bullets - ep5 - 70gr Hornady GMX and CFE 223

[@mattfleming86]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the comment section is likely mistaken. Seating depth. Seating depth. Seating depth. Go "up" until you see pressure signs. Back off .6-.8 gr or so. Then go straight to seating depth. Solids are like a lot of VLD's.. sensitive as hell to jump.

[@TheNutzandBoltz]

Appreciate your desire for the perfect group. Keep on Keep'n on.

[@draco2202]

You should try out a new/old loading I’m about to give a shot! It’s 70gr speer semi-spitzer, with imr 4064, loaded to .223 specs and it is supposed to be a great deer round

[@nailedpicturesbymanraj9491]

What twist rate u having ? Hornady book says this will stabilise in 1 in 7 inch twist only.

[@EMC_ADVENTURES]

Really enjoying your video series, your test methods and troubleshooting are great.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks!

[@michaelcastillo364]

Barrel harmonics are a huge factor. Having that forend and hanging a magneto off of the barrel. Seems worth it to test without the magneto and see what happens. Ive been testing cfe223 all week and found a node at 27.5 grains, mixed brass and cheap privi partizan 55 grain fmjbt and my groups are pretty decent with irons. Just came in from loading another 100 rnds this time without crimps to see if my groups shrink a little more. Love your vids. Keep it up.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Yup, that test is coming soon. Good luck with that load development!

[@RealBlueGene]

I'll second that one, every rifle I have shoots bigger groups with the magnetospeed attached. Even heavy contour barrels. Try the loads with the tightest groups/lowest SD without the magnetospeed. I'd leave the suppressor on if you're going to hunt with it. I always do load work ups with the rifle in the configuration it will be used, then chronograph the best group with the magnetospeed. Just food for thought.

[@robertconrath4379]

I’d even blame the harmonica with the barrel not being free floating and potentially having different loading points with the hand guard on that bag between shots/groups. Test this load in a bolt action with a floated action to see if the results are similar or much different?

[@sttvoyager1727]

I just found your channel. Its exactly what i was looking for. SUBSCRIBED!!! :-) Dr. David St Thomas, United States Virgin Islands

[@jreinert2582]

Have you ever come back to these bullets since getting your WOA barrel? Picked up a few of these thing I could get them to shoot. Using Westerns 5.56 data for AA2520, the groups that resulted made yours look good.

[@glen4130]

Good stuff man! Thanks for everything you do, I have learned a lot.

[@robkilcollins310]

Man your results mimic mine so much sometimes it's eerie. I've never had good luck with the GMX in any caliber, and the expansion is never as "pretty" as the Barnes solid copper line-up. CFE223 keeps me up a night. So often it gives me the best velocity and SD of any powder yet I will struggle to get it to group consistantly.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

CFE223 and TAC both fall into that category with me. I love the velocity but the groups just aren't usually there.

[@crf450rbulletdavid9]

Rob Kilcollins me too. Cfe 223 hasn’t done well in a number of bullets and combos. I found one decent load with those Hornady 62 grainers

[@davidpeterson6147]

as I mentioned in the other video, I throw out 50% of PMC brass due to uncentered flash holes. I only throw out about 20% of LC due to uncentered flash holes. Just make sure you sort your LC brass by date when you shoot them. The rim of the case varies considerably between dates and this will throw off your groupings considerably.

[@ericstegall9278]

Try BLC-2 for the velocity you are looking for. And you could always free float that barrel to increase the accuracy of that Colt. I did that on my Ruger and it made a big difference.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I've got some BLC2 on hand so I might give it a try at some point. I had a free float rail on this Colt previously but decided to put it back to stock. I have 3 other ARs with the fancy stuff so I figured I'd leave the Colt stock.

[@1RobHunter1]

I hate to say it, but the bullet jump is the big indicator on this bullet. Use the 26.5 charge small group and then play with bullet length on longer or shorter to find the sweet spot on dialing this hard to group bullet in. Use 10 to 15 thousand increments.... 2.240" 2.250" 2.260" 2.270" 2.280" 3.290" COAL One of those mixed with the closest ladder at 26.5 charge will get you MOA to sub MOA and a good hunting load. With non-free float barrel - good enough. If you want match grade - Wilson Combat free floated - Sub MOA cost effective.

[@sundaystrummer]

I like the brass test idea

[@jmartin9059]

You might need a 1:7 twist or faster to stabilize those.

[@tacticalitguy2102]

I would agree when throwing 55gr from my MP15T when I had it, I couldn't hit much once I changed my mag to Nosler 69gr SP I was driving nails at 100yds. I had a 1:8, which should be his minimum, a 1:7 would be better not to mention he should be using a .223 or .223 Wylde barrel, not a 5.56

[@jimhans1]

J Martin his barrel IS a 1:7 twist Colt barrel.

[@Ramjet7777]

@@jimhans1 but very short

[@hoffmiermp]

I'm late to the party on this but will be trying those type of bullets out of my Colt, DPMS and mini 14s and see what types of groups I'll get out of them.

[@BoltActionReloading]

I am glad everyone has solved all your problems ;o). I will say I have had no problem getting accurate results out of my PMC brass with my 16" 1/7 twist on both Hornady 75gr and sierras 77gr match projectiles (

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I am looking forward to the Magnetospeed tests as well. If I don't find any (or minimal) POI and accuracy change, I doubt that will change the minds of the Magnetospeed haters. There are A LOT of them out there and they seem impervious to things like facts and evidence. I was just checking out some of your videos. I didn't realize you were posting them. I think I am going to have to buy an RPR eventually. Seems like a great platform and I'd love to get into 6.5 Creedmoor.

[@BoltActionReloading]

If you check out some of my videos I would love any feed back. I tried to do some of my formatting after your channel, and I took your tip on hitfilm to do my editing. Wow what a learning curve. There is so little rpr specific reloading info on youtube I thought I would try and fill the void. After making a couple videos I have a new appreciation for all the work you put into making a high quality video. I really like your style and usually watch every video from start to finish cause I hate to miss anything. I am trying to get out at least to a thousand yards, but I have work to do and picking up all the tools is really a pain onthe budget. Choosing between a gopro and a rangefinder, I have to pick the rangefinder at this point. I am sure that shows in my videos though.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I watched all of your videos and really enjoyed them. I hope you'll keep it up. Feel free to advertise yourself in the comment sections of my videos anytime! Keep cranking out solid info and the subs and views will follow soon. The problems with your videos are the same ones I have with mine. Finding a nice bold font and color for text on the screen is a challenge. I would play around with that a little and see if you can come up with something more visible, perhaps. Also, reading information that's already displayed on the screen. I am trying to get better at that lately but still struggle with it. I find that it flows better if I just point out the things I find interesting in the displayed data rather than read it all off. The best thing is that you're not the least bit annoying. Your speech has a good flow and you're not always tripping over your words like I do. You covered your subject pretty thoroughly without acting like your audience is 5 years old. All good stuff. There is a ton of room on KZbin for reloading content. I wish more people would get into it. Actually...I might make a video about that soon. I want more reloading to watch! Are you wanting to film your benchtop stuff with a gopro? If so, I would suggest going another direction. Gopros are awesome and I have a couple, but they can't zoom and wouldn't work very well for this sort of stuff. I have mainly used a Canon VIXIA HF R600 camcorder and I feel like it's done a good job. You can pick up a refurb straight from Canon for $130 shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/vixia-hf-r600-black-refurbished If you get a GoPro now is a pretty good time. The Hero 4 Silver is on clearance at a lot of places since the 5 came out. The 4 has better audio (out of its waterproof case, that is) and the picture quality is just as good. I wish everyone knew what it takes to put together a video. It's a lot of fun, but man it is a ton of work.

[@MumblesMarbleMouth]

The key to accurate loads with monolithics is playing with bullet seating depth first then you do powder charges.

[@ronladuke7235]

I think I read somewhere the solid copper bullets ( it might have been the barns) liked a little different jump to the rifling but can’t remember what they said?

[@ThatcountryboyGt.]

I would try different primers and better brass like new Hornady. I never had a problem with pmc brass or any. Just my 2 cents

[@99pppo]

Did you measure the case volume? Because I just ran the max load shown through quickload and it gave me a pressure of 64194 PSI (4426 bar) for the cases I have which meter at 29,731gr H²O which would be unsafe even in 5.56 NATO chambers. Just a word of caution. Those long lead free bullets go very deep into those .223 cases and small variables might very quickly create undue pressures.

[@THutch556]

Great vid, I enjoyed it. Looking forward to the PMC brass testing, many people have said PMC brass sucks, but I have not seen it tested. Also agree that while it might not be a factor I would like to see the testing without the can and chrono strapped to the gun to take variables out of the equation. A second AR to compare the load with to rule out that it's not just your rifle hates that bullet would be nice. The channel is great how it is, but any chance of incorporating ballistic gel test for some of the awesome handgun/rifle loads you develop? would be neat to see and how they perform in ballistics gel, anyways thanks again for the great vid.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I did some gel testing with 300 Blackout and it was a huge pain in the butt. That was with homemade gelatin-based gel. I might buy a kit from Clear Ballistics soon. Elvis Ammo is using it over on his channel and seems to be having good luck with it. I will definitely be borrowing a 2nd AR to test with. Can't wait to see the results of the brass testing.

[@fortdefense9453]

Man I love both those powders. Seems to me that solid copper bullit just likes to fly weird. Anyhow keep these great videos comin. I'm coming in soon with some videos of my own... see ya!

[@DanielBoone337]

Did you ever make another video with these bullets??? If not I would love to see another one and maybe try a different rifle with a free floated barrel.... I almost but a few hundred of these for 223 and 6.5 Grendel but really glad I didn't after seeing this video they seem pretty finicky....

[@jonkenny593]

barrel harmonics is probably off between it not being freefloated and the chrono on the end. that is just a guess though haha

[@DesertSquid]

Another powder to try might be H335 for 5.56. I use it for my regular 5.56, and appears to be a "decent" powder.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I've got H335 and used it before. It's a good one! I'll be using it again soon, I'm sure.

[@DesertSquid]

Well, I've got 8lbs of it......so I'll be using it for a LONG time!!! :)

[@gregharman9146]

Try the monolithic solids with a greater jump into the lands(Seated deeper).

[@jimhans1]

The accuracy issues aren't the twist rate or the length, considering that some military units use the 14.5" M4 with a 1/7 twist and 77gr OTM bullets with great effect.

[@johnbryant1896]

I am new to reloading 223 rem. I sized some GFL .223 rem brass and the flash holes were way off center. Are the off centered flash holes a issue or does the brass have other problems?

[@DLN-ix6vf]

try 68gr. HPBT , all I use now is CFE223 powder and the fps & SDs are very good and consistent. ps: I also use a magnetosporter and it does affect group size by at least 2x this week I compared PMC with Bem. brass and found no difference at all.

[@daviddahl4148]

Have you tested any of the starline rifle brass?

[@davidpeterson6147]

you could even venture down the road of flash hole prep on the LC brass after sorting out by date and watch your groupings shrink even more but you would be better off using match primers at this point. The time invested in flash hole prep is not worth it IMO unless the LC brass has a nasty burr which might interfere with consistent primer ignition. There is some PMC brass which is extremely good stuff but it is only from the XTAC line of ammo and PSI on the base instead of PMC. I throw out about 25% due to uncentered flash holes.

[@markbreidenbaugh6033]

So I was just working up some loads in some range pickup PMC brass a week ago and I ran across two different styles of PMC brass the first thing was the head stamp font was quite different then I noticed while taking the crimp out of the primer pockets and chamfaring the case mouth that the brass seemed much harder than the others so I decided to weigh it and wow! it weighed in around 106-107gr per case! Lake city is something like 97-98 if I am remembering right so this is some thick hard heavy stuff I sorted it all out of my PMC brass for later testing. Also of note I picked this stuff up out in the desert about 5-7 years ago before I started reloading or even had a gun to shoot it in, so it is some older stuff where as the rest of my pmc I picked up in the last year. Has anyone else run into this?

[@hoffmiermp]

I noticed that as well with PMC brass, military crimped and commercial brass. I'll sort it out and use the commercial stuff for 55 grain FMJ range/field plinking stuff and seldomly mess with that PMC crimped stuff.

[@jimhans1]

Not totally surprised, most of the solid copper hunting bullets (Barnes x-bullet style etc) are not known for stellar accuracy.

[@gollygeewizard]

You don't mention the twist rate on your Colt and I know they manufactured them with both 1:7 and 1:9 and the latter may always struggle with heavier bullets.

[@terryw7309]

From the load data I've seen on their website is 24grn max load

[@ecleveland1]

How many variables do you change when you get back to the bench after a shooting session? You really need to change one thing at a time. Some of your groups really are not that bad except for the occasional flier, are you calling your shots? May I inquire into what is your rifle setup, i.e. brand, barrel twist, chrome lined barrel or not, what trigger do you have, what is the trigger pull weight. Are you crimping bullets that don't have a cannelure? I have 30yrs plus of reloading experience and would be glad to help with any questions you might have.

[@redteam9881]

You are using a Mag Primer .........the CCI 41............suggest CCI BR4 or Fed 205 AR match primer

[@donaldfugate9919]

i use gmx 70 gr in 1-7 twist 20" barrel 21.5 gr h335 , beating the snot out of dimes at 100 yds. bullet mushrooms perfect in water target im pleased

[@cademarti1365]

Johnny, from one reloader to another I see your issue with these groups. Take off your magnetospeed chronograph. I figured out the hard way that it not only affects point of impact, but group sizes as well. I'd love to see you reload these bullets with the same powder and charge weights and shoot groups again without the chronograph affecting the turbulence coming off the bottom of the bullet. Think "air concentricity" or anything that could shift a bullet. I only use magnetospeed after I found a small group size. I can tell your an excellent shooter with your fundamentals and it's frustrating when you're groups don't reflect that. I seriously have removed the magnetospeed off my barrel for good when testing groups. It's a game changer buddy

[@michealpeter9071]

Cade Marti I have used the magnetospeed for 2 years with no problems ..with a supressor and I have friends who do the same no issues ..his gun probably don’t like those bullets or he’s using shitty brass

[@PC-uh6hk]

There is a footnote in the manual stating this bullet won't stabilize with slower than a barrel twist of 7 to1.

[@fjb4932]

1:7 ROT

[@DuoBart0n]

have you tried these compared to the barnes TSX 70gr?

[@ericlaird7508]

I don't think these bullet's are stabilized in a 16 inch barrel? at any rate, I really dig the video's!!!...

[@Proskatefilmer10123]

Have you ever tried using sand to capture the bullets? Ps love your videos especially the beginners to reloading.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

You know...I have a 5 gallon bucket of sand that's been sitting in my garage since I bought this place. I might have to give that a try! Thanks.

[@Proskatefilmer10123]

no problem.

[@DevilDog3330]

Great to see some new 5.56 vids going up. I forgot which video it was where you mentioned the brand for those bullet boxes; what brand are those?

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

They are MTM H-50's. A little pricier than the basic boxes but they are great. Here is a link: amzn.to/2dZbpes You would need the small size for 5.56. If you are looking for other calibers the compatibility list on MTM's site is here: www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/rifle/ammo-boxes-rifle-h-50.html

[@DevilDog3330]

Johnny's Reloading Bench Thank you sir, greatly appreciate it. needing boxes from 5.56 to 300 WM and I love the design and ease of removing rounds. Appreciate it.

[@trumpie5399]

Are you using 1:7 twist ? Don’t suggest CCI 41 it’s a Mag primer Try BR4 or 7.5Match

[@bbjuneau]

What rifling do you have in the gun?

[@jdh9_]

Not exactly apples to apples but I have loaded 25.0 grains of varget behind a Hornady 75gr BTHP-M bullet with great success out of three different AR-15's. Just don't want you to lose confidence in Varget with heavy bullets m

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I have total confidence in Varget for just about any situation! It's one of the best powders out there...no doubt about it.

[@jesseq7801]

What twist rate is your barrel? If you're running 70gr out of a 1:9 twist rate you're not gonna get the accuracy you expect.

[@jreg0028]

Does the suppressor affect velocity much?

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I will have a video on that exact topic in the next couple weeks. I haven't done enough controlled testing to say one way or the other. Stay tuned!

[@jreg0028]

Will do thanks

[@andrewcondon471]

jreg0028 not really. The suppressor just retards the blast gasses that comes out AFTER the bullet exits the barrel. Unless there's a baffle strike you shouldn't notice any change in velocity

[@trevorfout4759]

do u have another rifle are one ucan borrow to rule out that it isnt ur gun as u stated that does not like the round

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Yes, my nephew has a nice Palmetto 16" 1:7 that's free-floated. I am going to see if I can borrow it for a few tests.

[@trevorfout4759]

+Johnny's Reloading Bench that would be interesting i now ive tested a few rounds my db didnt like but ran good in my father inlaws ruger

[@HadleyRille1]

one thing I have not seen here is anyone bring up twist rate of the rifle. A twist rate for a AR-15 of 1:9" the max weight of that bullet can be 69grain bullet. A 1:7 twist rate is 85 grain. The weight of the bullet & twist rate can effect the accuracy of the rifle. Ricky

[@roosterfish3248]

Not the weight, it's the length. But you are right, a 70 grain all copper bullet is probably longer than a 77 otm.

[@OzarkSpirit]

Do you have access to a 1:9 twist or tighter barrel? My M4 with a 1:9 twist loves the 70g GMX with Varget at 23.5g.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

My Colt is a 1:7. Heavy bullets have never been an issue in this gun. I am also borrowing another AR from my nephew that is a 1:7. We'll get to the bottom of this eventually.

[@ryleestuart9095]

Seating depth lol take that 26.5 an fug with the jump to the lands by 30 thousandths

[@hrbricker]

Nobody knows what that Magnetospeed Chrono is doing to your barrel resonance..I'd like to see what the groups look like after you Chrono the loads and then remove the Cronograph.

[@edwardosborne8836]

Ok thanks will 1-9 twist work with a 70gr

[@WiseoldAl]

Go to berger bullet and put the values in....I'm pretty sure it will Not stabilize the bullet..

[@josephfeinburg3915]

Your biggest problem is your barrel. Get an 18" WOA varmint barrel with 1 in 7" twist. This is my WOA 18" complete upper free floating varmint barrel fluted 1 in 7" twist attached to a Colt M-4 with a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Using reloaded Sierra 69 grain Match King bullets it shoots 3/8" five shot groups at 100 yards. I also have a Bushnell 4.5-18x40mm scope with Custom Turret label accurate out to 900 yards. The rings are 1" high QD aluminum. The group in the picture was with 65 grain Sierra Game kings which I use for deer..It won't let me post pictures.

[@jonlockhart8436]

Just a thought do you think these rounds are not suppressor friendly?

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I haven't read anywhere that they aren't. Anything's possible, I guess.

[@jonlockhart8436]

Johnny's Reloading Bench I know some people say the magneto speed is the issue but it shouldn't be. Copper is very weakly magnetic which means it requires a large powerful magnet to even begin to be attracted. So in short it's for all intensive purposed non-magnetic. Plus the field being put out by the chronograph is pretty weak.

[@RealBlueGene]

The magnetic field created by the Magnetospeed is not the issue. It is the additional weight of the Magnetospeed that will change barrel harmonics, effecting accuracy.

[@robertcharles4053]

You're going to have to debug the loading tray.

[@player2883]

I have some lc12 that I will send you if you want them. I hate seeing you struggle with this.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks, man. I am good to go. I've got about 10 different headstamps on hand that I am going to be testing next week. LC is what I usually use but I pulled out the PMC just to play around with.

[@chasearchibald2039]

Also, if your sd's are that good, it isn't your brass.

[@khalilhitti7971]

20” inch barrel and 2880 fps

[@TallPaul-s2w]

Horrible grouping. Hate it for you. I know this is 8 years old but I was going to get a bunch of these to load with powder I have. Thanks for changing my mind

[@jacobdendinger4140]

You made an excellent cartridge oh, it just needs to be shot out of a better gun. The standard deviation shows how good of a cartridge you made.

[@jacobdeem1328]

barrel twist?

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

The Colt LE-6920 is 1:7

[@EverydayReloadingandShooting]

The CFE223 is the problem

[@jacobdeem1328]

What's the distance?

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

100 yards. I say so at 6:57

[@jacobdeem1328]

Johnny's Reloading Bench I do enjoy your videos but I do have a tendency to skip around lol

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

lol That's understandable. I've been planning to start putting a table of contents at the beginning of each video saying what time things happen so people can skip around easier. I know a lot of people don't have time for all my rambling.

[@Cpnpd922]

Johnny's Reloading Bench I don't always have time for it, but I do like the rambling.

[@txdocprich_8404]

Retry with 8208 XBR

[@cephushogan4042]

remind me not to make that load. lol

[@richardhenderson6169]

24grs of 4895

[@fjb4932]

IMR or H ?

[@Morphz_Unlimited]

70gr bullet out of an AR-15 platform?

[@Morphz_Unlimited]

And you are ruining them suppressed?

[@brianb8903]

Magneto is not the issue. Check the physics required to alter a non magnetic object through a magnetic field The magnetic field it puts out is not strong enough. I suspect barrel length is one issue. Bullet might be to heavy to be stabilized through a shorter barrel. The suppressor might cause an issue. Everything attached at the end of your barrel could be the issue, creating a strain on the metal when it heats up. To normalize your test, try a past load of something that was accurate with your set up. 5 rounds that have proven good, 5 rounds of your best 70 gr load. Alternate between the two. If you can get ahold of a 20" barrel try the 70 gr with that. Semi, bolt, whatever. Bottom line is the physics are not correct for this bullet and your AR setup.

[@chasearchibald2039]

Couple of things: look how much stuff you have hanging off of an ar barrel, that's gotta be whipping all over. Also, solid copper bullets dont smush into the lands like a lead bullet with copper jacket. It means your solid bullet will not "slip" down the barrel the same each time. The lead bullets smash into the lands with less force, and move consistently down the bore.

[@jacobdendinger4140]

It's not the bullets. It's your gun. I know 2 different people, both close friends of mine, that have that colt LE. Neither one of them can do better than 2 or 3 in groups.. P.O.S!

[@dvfd1874]

Your problem is barrel length and twist rate. Shooting that heavy of a bullet out of a 16" barrel is not a good match.

[@teddylebleu1392]

Same as another said never got the gmx to shoot multiple cal. Tried high end barrels lots of different powders all same horrible groups gave up heck I give u the left over bullets if u want I would feel bad selling them to someone lol

[@jimhans1]

Daryl Guyton lmao, you do know that the US military uses 14.3" barrels with 1:7 twist and runs 77gr bullets out of them with zero issues. It's NOT his barrel, it's the bullets, none of the solid copper Barnes style bullets are known for anything beyond mediocre accuracy, which is fine for hunting, but not so much for target use

[@drhhodge8243]

If your gonna shoot copper you better shoot Barnes

[@josephfeinburg3915]

Crap bullets. Switch to Sierra 65 grain Game Kings.

[@khalilhitti7971]

Not only pmc sucks... with lc 014 best group i got was 1,3”... crap gmx