Buying DIRECT vs. Buying from a DEALER

[@benpit2762]

Eh John this video could have been a “short” video clip on KZbin, understand “shorts” can now be 3 minutes in length, just saying.

[@DarkoAudio]

Kindly read the description box. It's right above the box where you typed your comment.

[@benpit2762]

@@DarkoAudioJohn my apologies didn’t read the description…

[@DarkoAudio]

No worries at all. 🙂

[@rutgerleunen4812]

@@DarkoAudio This is why we love John 😁

[@littleafterall]

@@DarkoAudio Even if it was available to upload it as short, I greatly appreciated you uploaded in regular videos. I find short videos, almost 100% of time, banal and trivial. They are also histeric and shallow. Thank you for great, detailed content.

[@JKadison]

As I recently found, dealer service is critical and worth every penny!

[@heiko_1974]

And what if the direct seller simply adds up the distributer's and retailer's margin to its own? 'Cause he's doing their job, at least to a degree?

[@rw80]

It’s indeed a bit more complex. With wholesale distribution the manufacturer has lower cost so they can sell to the distributor for a lower gross price and still makes the same profit. In direct sales they need to setup a direct sales organisation including pre- and post sales teams which is normally by the in-country distributor and retailers.

[@bacon.dumpling]

That is generally not the case, for any product. The MSRP already includes the manufacturer’s margin, plus the reseller’s margin. The resellers get the products from the manufacturer at a much lower reseller price which allows them to add their own margin to get back to the MSRP. Generally, the manufacturer is the most expensive because they sell their products at full MSRP (unless they want to clear inventory), while the reseller can choose to not add their full margin and sell the product at a discount to entice more buyers. So it is much more likely to find the same product cheaper at a reseller than the manufacturer.

[@FonsVanWiemeersch]

Thank you for your insights John! I would like to add that a producer selling directly to the consumer also incurs higher costs compared to selling through a distributor and/or dealer network. Keep in mind that they have to cover their full marketing, presence at shows, logistics (small volumes with high frequency instead of large volumes with lower frequency), return and warranty policies, and sales team entirely on their own. This also affects the margin and cannot simply be compared without considering the extra costs and, consequently, the higher price...

[@bryantaylor2946]

Yes, we are at the Toronto Audiofest next weekend with Fyne Audio, Canor, Melco, EPOS Loudspeakers, Fink Team products. This costs money and it is coming from us, the Distributor of these excellent audio products.

[@maxhirsch7035]

While over the years I've usually bought audio gear used from other audiophiles on audio sales sites; store demos or consignment items; or at times direct, I've come to realize that there ARE merits to buying from stores- even when the prices are higher- especially their used/demo/special deal items; and as another poster here has mentioned, one can potentially negotiate a substantially better price with a store on a given item new or used. If one's other gear lines are carried by the store from which an item is purchased, a competent store owner can resolve certain technical dilemmas; if there's difficulty dealing with a manufacturer regarding a repair issue, a store may have "pull" w/ them and can help resolve an issue; stores can allow you to demo equipment too heavily to conveniently demo even if direct sales have a trial policy; stores can assemble synergistic systems over time and their presence at stores and on forums can add another group of perspectives to the question of gear evolution, system synergy, and consumer needs; etc. While stores are not perfect and certain store owners are questionable, for the reasons above many audio stores, particularly high-end ones, can help both consumers and the industry as a whole. While I still buy used from private sellers, often I can get nearly-as-good deals from stores offering the items used; and people assembling high-end systems who want extra expertise and some protection from possible screw-ups/mis-matches within a system should not ignore the potential benefits of working at least partially with stores and store owners.

[@FelaHughes]

It’s not that simple though. A direct manufacturer has to do much of the work that a dealer would do. Retail warehousing and distribution, marketing and customer support. The channel gets their cut because they’re actually providing a service to the manufacturer and have economies of scale and service expertise. You may argue that some of those services aren’t needed or appreciated any more but only the bravest manufacturers can create a customer sales channel that competes with eg Amazon.

[@pimvanvliet2812]

I bought my streamer from a dealer and when I was there he let me listen to some of his speakers. I didn't really like the sound of that particular setup. A few weeks later I was in his shop again and he had the same speakers now connected to different amplification. I still didn't like it, but there was a definite improvement in the sound. It was more to my liking. Recently I was in a different shop that happens to have the same speakers and of course with different amplification again. This time, I found a noticeable change to the sound. It was much more to my liking. Now, I know that the room is different, but there was enough of a difference to conclude I really like the sound of that amplifier. So, by going to different dealers and trying the same components in different combinations, I was able to find a new to me component to further investigate. It might cost more to buy from dealers, but by knowing that what you buy is what you like first up, it could easily get you off the Mary go round quicker. Long story short; dealers still have an important role to play in my journey to the ultimate system.

[@FMN024]

All these are true only if we asume that the manufacturer doesn’t sell directly with a higher margine than other manufacturers who are selling through distributors and brick and mortar shops. Because they don’t show us the cost and the margin of profit.

[@twistedmister1]

But one of those mfgr direct costs is returns, which will be much higher when people get their first look and listen after purchase. When I go to a store, listen, touch and feel, then buy, it’s probably not getting returned.

[@chriswright5016]

Thanks for the basic economics 101. I'm still scratching my head as to exactly what point you're making here. Are you actually suggesting that anything bought in the high street is technically inferior to the direct route? That is preposterous. Whatever you're trying to say isn't clear and, frankly, doesn't benefit anyone, including yourself.

[@dhlininger3159]

Some thoughts for discussion. One, I was in the wine industry and there was an understanding that a winery would offer direct pricing at an equal or higher price so that in return the end seller would give the product fair representation to the customer especially if the wineries market was the entire US. Two, other than watch KZbinrs do an A/B comparison the only way to decide which Amp,speaker etc is to the listener liking is to visit a store and listen for ones self or to buy direct two of the same and send back the one not liked taking into account any return and restocking fees. Three, what is to keep the direct manufacturer from pocketing some of the supply chains money when selling at their “cheaper“ pricing. Four, all components being equal does it make sense to pay extra if one can see, touch, listen, compare in person rather than rely on the glowing descriptions from a direct seller’s website. Just some thoughts

[@SethMertens]

Lots of manufacturers sell there products online for the same retail prize as the dealers, they just make more profit. When a manufacturer sells directly and only to customers I follow your thoughts. And don't forget a dealer can give you advise on different brands and a (better) service after sales.

[@brianma5606]

I looked at the manufacturer website, and then price shopped for a particular dac streamer. I called the dealer that had it, and was quoted a price well below what the manufacturer was asking. It’s an easy task. If you can get it from a dealer for a lower price AND have that customer care, it’s a no brainer. Also building the rapport with the dealer sets you up for more purchases down the line from multiple brands.

[@husseinj]

I thought I would chime in here as I do actually design and manufacture my own Audio accessory product in the UK and sell on multiple channels in various countries. You do need to take a holistic view of the business; so while I do have a much reduced margin selling through reps, distributors and dealers they bring a great amount of volume by marketing and recommending my product alongside speakers and amplifiers as part of a solution. This volume helps to reduce my manufacturing costs and is a straightforward transaction where they buy in outer box quantities and offer all of the customer support. Selling direct of course has a much higher margin and this is important to balance the reduced margin in the distribution channel and this is what makes the business viable. We cannot offer discounted prices from direct purchases as this would sour our valued relationships with dealers. Both channels are important, it is a delicate balance between the two.

[@martinaston1715]

Interesting ..there is the nub of the matter, ur relationship via dealer is more important than the end customer, this is also a major contributing factor to excessive greed flation since the pandemic, with old already costed product lines increasing by over 1/3 , its also a reason the industry is chasing fewer and fewer customers, i now refuse to buy new anymore..

[@wilfarnold6747]

I’m old school and buy the essentials (turntable, amp, cd player and speakers) of my system from a dealer. I want to try stuff out to see if it adds value to my system. This requires a demo and possibly a trial at home. It may cost more but I can avoid expensive mistakes. Stuff like headphones I buy online but only because I’m used to a particular brand and can compare them against other makes at Hi-Fi shows. So far my streaming device is an Echo Dot named Ziggy.

[@Michael-xz1nk]

I’ve heard that the general cost of manufacturing most stereo components is about 25% of its total full retail price. At the end of the day, we’re buying something that costs $1.00 but only costs $.25 cents to make. I’m ok with that because as John says, everyone between the manufacturer (distributor and dealer) and the customer must be able to make a living while covering their myriad of internal costs….otherwise, they are out of business.

[@lsaideOK]

If you return an item in the trial term, with direct to consumer, you'll often have to pay the return shipping. That's what happened when I tried out zu audios dirty weekends. But, when I tried out a pair of speakers from Best Buy, I just returned them to the store. No fee involved. Plus, with the dealer you do often get the service of being able to listen to the speakers in the store. If you do get to listen to speakers in the store and even compare them to others, that's a service that is worth something. And think about the difference in warranty service. Sending something back to Denmark or to your local dealer or to a network of manufacturer approved repair places. There are pluses and minuses to each method. Whether it is direct to consumer or dealer based is not a deciding factor in my purchasing.

[@supanoro]

Whether you buy directly from the maker or the dealer the prices marked online are most often the same. When buying from a dealer you can often get a small discount but in my experience that has not been the case when buying directly from the manufacturer

[@jensherrmann7116]

When a manufacturer sells 1000 products to resellers he can make the products a bit cheaper than when he only sells 100 products direct to the customer. The resellers than have to get rid of the products, which is not the manufacturers problem anymore. I think this point should be told as well. I think we can not flip the price chain exactly around.

[@iepdeklein1701]

This is why DIY make it your self is soo… satisfactory ❤

[@HiFiInsider]

also if the dealer is importing the product the import taxes and shipping to get the product into their country is also merged into the retail price the dealer sets.

[@ordinaryjoe2247]

Is it different in the UK and EU than here in the US? Here it's usually the case that, when the same product is available both direct and through a dealer network, the price is exactly the same. If anything, we're more likely to see a discounted price from a dealer, while the manufacturer still is listing full price. That's an honest question. Not throwing stones or looking to start an argument or anything.

[@markwhitehead6965]

KEF charge the same as a dealer

[@tonyhodgkinson4586]

I bought some speakers direct from a well known maker of speakers and drive units, I never got a discount, ditto from a maker of hi fi racks. they want all the profit so best to use a dealer that has always been keen to give me a discount.

[@domlisboa4024]

And to add that in many territories manufacturers who sell direct and through dealers sell at exactly the same price as dealers so as not to undercut them. Really not sure what point the video is trying to make?

[@bryantaylor2946]

Here is something to consider... many small manufacturers sell their product to dealers or consumers in their home market or region. But they require distributors to buy (and pre-pay) for dozens of pieces or pairs to finance their operation. Manufacturers do not want to sell 100 pairs of speakers, one pair at a time, they want 20 distributor to buy 10 pairs at a time and prepay for them. This gives the manufacturers cash flow to buy their parts and inventory in larger quantities and build the stock. Buying tweeters 200 or 400 at a time gets better pricing than buying 24 tweeters. Logical, yes?

[@DannyHoffman57]

A flaw in the logic here: who says in a manufacturer direct setup the manufacturer takes the same margin he does as when he sells to the distributor? I doubt that happens much, if at all. Part of the logic of going manufacturer direct is that the manufacturer can get some of the profit that usually goes to the distributor and retailer.

[@vprwave]

That's wild, I would not have considered that being a major industry practice. Our big high street chains regularly get exclusive products from brands, sought after products with maybe extra features and maybe something else missing, etc. These slight variations make it infeasible to compare product prices with other stores even on spec sheet level.

[@grandmasterjo1]

As far as I know with my experience in the audio industry the distributor gets the items for 50% of the shelf price The distributor keeps a 15%margin The retailer keeps a 25% margin after giving a 10% discount The manufacturer who sells for 50% has a 30% cost. Some manufacturers cost is 100 but sell for 400 Can Happen with high end products

[@ChrisWhittenMusic]

I buy direct from a manufacturer if it’s a product I already know or am highly confident I would like. If it’s hi-fi, which I don’t tend to know a lot of background about, I will go to a well stocked retailer to demo products and ask questions. Another disadvantage of buying direct from outside your country is getting help or advice if something goes wrong. So in short, I do see value in paying slightly more from a local retailer, but many times I do buy direct from the maker, especially small ‘boutique’ makers who often offer superior customer service anyway.

[@matthew3770]

So basically you're saying if I see a piece of equipment i like for $500 at an audiophile shop, i should look online for a $500 piece sold directly from the manufacturer, because that will likely be better bang for my buck?

[@RacingAnt]

What if the product sold through the retailer has a more efficient production process, and the manufacturer accepts a lower profit on each item? Then, things end up the same. So, it's more complicated than direct vs retail.

[@asphotographics]

No. As everyone else in this thread understands, there is a difference between manufacturer, wholesale, and retail pricing models. Not all have or expect the same margins. And selling direct is not free. Marketing, web store management, credit card fees, piecemeal shipping, after sales service and support. All those things add up. Yes, we live in a world where manufacturers can now sell direct to consumers, but that doesn’t mean it would be smart for them to start severely undercutting their distributor or dealer networks. Having said that, direct sales may increase efficiency, which generally results in higher margins, not lower consumer prices. What you are touching on with the quality of components goes back to the design phase, where, yes, manufacturers do consider retail pricing in their component decisions. And you do see specific product revisions manufactured for large retailers to hit a slightly lower price point (e.g., big box store exclusives). This isn’t going to happen in the hi-fi world though, unless we are talking about mass market products (not audiophile stuff). A good example might be the Sonos/IKEA partnership. I’ve never heard of a manufacturer making a more costly revision only for direct sale without a price increase. (“Special edition” products, for which the consumer expects to pay a premium, don’t count). Not saying it can’t happen, but I’d like to see an example. I feel like you are arguing that dealer retail sales not only drive prices up but also drive quality down, and I don’t agree that is the case with luxury goods. It’s a baseless hypothetical, unless you can cite a specific example.

[@markkink8306]

I believe you should try to support your local retail dealers whenever you can. They have the expertise to help you choose the right components based on your budget and your listening preferences. They often have your desired items in stock. They usually will allow a home trial. AND, they will back up what they sell. No legitimate dealer is going to represent brands that will not back their dealer network. IF the retail price is slightly higher, it is worth it. The dealer is taking the risks, not you. Retail stores in all product categories are dying a long slow death in the US. Please try to keep some of them going. At this point, only the best audio dealers still survive.

[@ernieslubik9637]

My local KEF dealer lists my LS60's for the same price as does KEF Canada. However, I can dicker with my local dealer, so I can by the same product for less from the dealer. I suspect there are similar examples?

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

i’ve had a life-changing experience in mid-fi home theater and hi-fi stereo thanks entirely to direct sales. i’m a customer who simply would never have shopped my local “high street”

[@kurtkrummel]

A good commentary. But there is an assumption at play here: The selling price of a product is established by the costs of manufacturing and distributing. This isn't always the case. Most of the time, product sell prices are based on what the market will support. This is why hype can cause something of lesser quality cost more than another product of greater quality. Hype...the glittering rhinestone on the jumpsuit of mediocrity.

[@TPQ1235]

Interesting perspective. However I wonder how it works when the buy direct price from the manufacturer is the exact same price to the penny as a purchase from Amazon or a local brick and motor dealer? I’m a few minutes drive from one of this manufactures and would love to just buy it over the counter without their shipping cost added. No such luck.

[@Unpreeeedictable]

💯 I own three (soon to be four) direct to consumer components and the value proposition is very real. At a certain point in an audiophile’s “journey” (sorry!) the dealer doesn’t earn his kibbles, but starting out, they can help avoid a lot of mistakes.

[@Krell666]

If this is true then why are manufacturer direct prices generally higher than the retail store prices? I suspect there are agreements in place to protect the dealer/retail network negotiated between the importer/distributor and manufacturer. A good example of this is KEF.

[@westsail42]

Keep in mind, mfrs often require dealers and resellers to agree NOT to sell items below a certain price (often called "street price"). And doing so risks their membership in the dealer network. Therefore, margins made by mfrs and supply chain will fluctuate, but they are probably set by agreement as a condition of becoming a distributor or reseller. So for consumer there is little difference in cost. Benefits are often in customer service. Buying direct establishes a customer relationship that you might not have when buying through Brick and mortar. And vice versa.

[@richardvannoy1198]

From my experience prices from a retailer, like Best Buy, are typically identical to what I see on the Manufacturer’s website. In the U.S. That’s why I buy much of my Audio/Video gear from them. I wish it was otherwise. I’d be happy to save money by buying directly from the manufacturer.

[@anthonyferrari1415]

Hello John, how about a video for newbies like me who would just like your advice on a half decent DAC so I can listen to music via my headphone (dr dre). Also which streamer would you recommend? I watch a lot of your videos but to be honest....I have no idea what you are talking about, I need to start at the bottom. Thanks.

[@WireHedd]

Absolutely bang on. Thank you.

[@MasterofPlay7]

but some manufacture won't allow you to buy directly

[@trudimcleod5042]

I do not think there is a different between a pair of speakers bought on Amazon vs bought directly from the manufacturer, is there? The argument the guy at GR Research makes is that Klipsch and other speaker companies use cheap components, in order to maintain the profits margins at all selling points (manufacturer, distributor, retailer).

[@VisionCarrierDreamCatcher]

This is generally true BUT there is the counterbalancing effect of scale. Traditional distribution channel companies typically have the ability to buy components at better prices and thus ameliorate the "produce to a price point" effect. The direct to consumer model has been enabled by the internet that allows new small entrants to find a niche in the marketplace. Increasing well funded businesses (exhibit 1 - Arendal) have refined this model to great success. I now find myself cross shopping the price point to see what additional feature/quality set I can get from (well reviewed) direct to consumer brands. Interestingly the market power of well regarded reviewers can make or break a brand. Interesting times.

[@TheIpadfanatic]

Yes, but... 1) Distributors buying in volume get a per unit discount often. 2) Manufactures often participate in marketing programs with distributors and dealers, like MAP (Minimum Advertised Price). MAP programs are additional discretionary marketing dollars that can subsidize distributors & dealers. 3) Manufacturers selling direct have to have the infrastructure to pick, pack and ship products. That is cost that they can offset if they work with a distributor. But we understood your intent. We shouldn't disparage distributors & dealers.

[@amok281]

Jon, Considering your residential situation it occurs to me that you may like to listen to 'West Berlin' by Camel - it's on vol 1 of their 1984 live album Pressure Points (on Tidal). Not perhaps your typical listening, as if there is such, but I suspect you would like it. I prefer earlier Camel myself especially 'Moonmadness' and 'The Snow Goose' I enjoy your channel. Regards, Alan

[@justinmaccreery2490]

Oooh, Darko's got the new Kef Q Concerto's behind him! After saving for a while to purchase R3's to replace my Klipsch's, but just before buying them, these things appeared. Thinking, how do these Concerto's compare to the R3; maybe the Q's would be a better purchase? And then finding the channel's probably going to review, and compare them soon, serendipity! The channel's experience with Jon's R3's compared to these should be immensely informative when choosing which!

[@anisfinn1689]

I'm not totally sure this always tracks. Most manufacturers that offer direct sales through their own website and through a distro/dealer network will sell on the website for the same price if not higher than you would find in the retailer. This is because the bulk price that the manufacturer will be selling to the distro will be vastly less than the end retail price, and ditto for the next link in the chain. The manufacturer would normally prefer to sell a large amount of units less frequently as it is a very efficient way of doing business, putting in place all of the logistical elements needed to carry out direct sales of individual units and then offering all of the same level of aftersales support is costly and labour intensive. They may want to sell a small amount via this avenue as it can be very profitable on a per-sale level, but they still want to protect their bricks and mortar presence as without it their business model would need to be radically altered, not to mention that that is still the preferred way that a lot of people would choose to shop. Especially for something quite as subjective as HiFi components. Still love your work though John! 😜

[@jakbenardete7707]

I think, this is a bit of oversimplification, it is not wrong per se, but it's not the full picture. Two points come to mind, and I am sure there are a few more. 1- Direct sellers, also have more costs associated with direct selling, and because they are skipping the distributors and dealers margins, and they usually have smaller sales volumes, they also get to add more margin to their products. 2 - Companies using distributors and dealers, usually can sell a lot more products, due to having so many more doors, which in turn gives them more money for R&D and the ability to buy the same components that a direct seller buys at large volume discounts, so not only the components can be of similar quality but the technology in the product can also be better.

[@JoseGarcia-oo4mc]

Good video , I tried to buy my Harbeth speaker from Harbeth, and I couldn’t do it , so had to spend a lot more money he US dealer . Good video 👍

[@waroonh4291]

NAD dealer in my country kept service every unit even NAD uk itself told no spares part for (in my case 3020b) anymore .. is that amazing 😅

[@yippie6862]

I feel like there are a lot of direct to consumer audio products out there that don't give much of a discount compared to the distributor/dealer model of selling.

[@Bd-ox4mi]

None of em in my experience

[@bpalpha]

There's also the cost of the CEO's mega-yacht and the winter chalet in Vail to account for.

[@hanayahaddad6422]

Are those the Q Concerto Meta's behind you?

[@robertopedrazzini1735]

In theory you are right, in the real world most of the direct to consumer companies are making a lot more margin then the "one passage" should justify.

[@mrcarpentersc]

Some of these resellers buy direct but get a better price than we do from buying direct which helps them out.

[@domlisboa4024]

This video lacks key information. A manufacturer selling directly will need a direct marketing team, sales team, support team, sales after care team, and warrantee team. Hmm the same as the dealer situation. It is possible that a manufacturer selling directly could sell a product cheaper than through a dealer network. But as ever it’s not as straightforward as one model is better than the other. Both have merits.

[@Pok-001]

Sales team yes. But for warranty and the other things a company has that for dealer distribution too. That’s one reason bigger names are more popular. They have networks to service customers. Like you said advantages for both. Direct sales can make smaller companies more competitive. Edit: just realized you said the same thing about warranty lol. Traveling on a road trip. I would add you tube reviews has helped the direct sales model immensely.

[@andrewwilliams3549]

?? so WIIM is £349 direct and or through any Hifi store or Amazon, but what you said is the way i always thought about it, but now you have direct sales, so can you buy direct from major makers or only companies like Wiim etc?

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

🙋‍♂️THANKS JOHN ,FOR MAKING THIS POIGNANT POINT 🤗🧐💚💚💚

[@michaelmarcosjunior]

There’s another point: the hifi stores need to add a margin to cover value lost when some New version of the product is lauched.

[@Joel-m777]

A company like JBL who is owned by Samsung who themselves own a large chunk of the global Hifi market would still despite working through a dealer based supply chain still likely beat or match most independent niche businesses selling direct. Especially products like speakers where engineering plays arguably more of a role in sound quality as do the actual parts. Samsung owned businesses would have access to the worlds best IP and well as significant scale and vertical integration advantages.

[@D1N02]

Cutting out the middle man is a win for both manufacturers and customers. Higher, margins and lower pricing. Funny how so many people are invested in how it used to be. Importers and Brick and Mortar, that they want to contest this simple truth.

[@garoldpowell863]

"All other things being the same?"...in you're imaginary world. Both marketing ploys (direct vs dealer) have pros and cons. But, direct to consumer is usually done to increase profit margins...what the seller does with those profits is another matter. Do they invest in better components, invest more in R&D, invest in better manufacturing processes, or pay more in dividends? Nike tried to go direct to consumer and it failed with some consumers. Apparently, some consumers like to try shoes before they buy them.

[@jeg569]

What about manufacturers who dictate what price their products can be sold at. The same price direct or through a dealer. Local businesses keep local people employed, and you get to see the products.

[@bobcresswell5031]

Dealers do not sell to distributors at full list price. I have found that, where available, the dealer price is close to, if not the same as the full retail price. Of course, your dealer may offer a discount to complete the sale. Having dealers around where you can audition equipment is a dream here in rural Italy. Looking for a NAD dealer in the EU on their website and entering my ZIP (CAP) code gives me options in Louisiana!

[@Evolved_ue7]

Don't forget VAT .. It's not just audio most goods go through many hands . This is where depreciation comes in, say 2k pair of speakers, the actual cost to make with labour is what £400, then you have to understand why so much stuff is made in china, far cheaper and better profit margins. Home made products carry in most cases twice the price . This is why I never knock china, without them our standards of living would be lower ..

[@kevineyles8822]

Yep , you are correct,not rocket science . Carefully buy used and save an absolute fortune.

[@johnpischedda6951]

Ideally this is the best scenario! Most people in this game look after their stuff , I have benefited greatly by sourcing used gear that I would have bought new, but the seller was simply upgrading or trying something different. Absolute perfect condition for a fraction of the cost!

[@charleshuguley9323]

Cost to manufacturer also includes advertising.

[@MrPortwinestain]

I hope didn't purchase lesser versions of my expensive HiFi equipment because I purchased from a dealer online. My Hegal H390 a d my Technics SL 1210 G for example. This is now stirring in my head.

[@przemo2539]

Dear John, looks like ikea made USB anchor for you, to repalce door stop. Havskal. 😅

[@benjamin_lecomte]

Straight to the point video i love! :)

[@artureff3046]

Not necessarily. Manufacturers sell many items at lower margin to distrbutors passing storage and financial cost. Just financial risk sharing.

[@masterazlan6999]

Both. If other choices, that would be 3rd 1...Peace!

[@monoblock.]

Baking your own bread is cheaper. Using your self grounded flou from your self harvested wheat is basically for free. Wanna try?

[@FMN024]

😂

[@michaelbooth6007]

I think it is very hard for a new entrant to the HiFi market to break in to the dealer network. Established manufacturers will offer incentives to retailers to protect their business that the retail customer won't be aware of. One thing that I find annoying about dealers is they stock a brand but only physically stock a few of the brands products. Recently I was looking for Rega Aya speakers. Rang some Rega dealers. Didn't stock them. Why? Could it be they are making more money on alternative speakers? Rega themselves won't allow a dealer to sell online so if you live remote as I do the product is very difficult to purchase. I can see why some companies choose the direct selling model. In my experience they can often offer better quality at a lower price.

[@HectorHughMunro]

Not completely. Direct to consumer actually has quite high marketing costs. A dealer will smear marketing costs across a number of different product lines. There are savings going direct but it’s not as simple as the “cut out the middleman” cliché. In practice, I’m happy buying direct. Dealer demos are not that revealing. Only in home demos work but are difficult to get. In practice, hi-fi shows do as much as a dealer does in terms of product discovery.

[@robmaxwell3678]

True about dealer demos (the service), but dealer demos (the product, not the service) can sure be good deals. Similarly, the used market is a viable alternative to direct and dealer.

[@patrickgeorge141]

As long as one is happy with the product and price! Who cares! It costs money to live. If your worried over price maybe, just maybe it is not the product for you.

[@adotopp1865]

This is incorrect .A product has a RRP to it For example an EAR 834p phonostage will be £1,349 from Jordan acoustics UK or £1,349.00Price from Elite Audio UK or £ 1,349.00 from Stone Audio. Anyway its not the product its the synergy

[@RobinMarples]

But the margin can be smaller if the manufacturer sells more

[@CCHLuckow]

If you are comparing apples to apples normally products in channel sales (vendor to distribution to reseller) are heavily discounted to give the chain an incentive to make money stocking and selling the product. Most vendors that want to have that channel do it because they do not have the same feet on the ground to get product promoted, serviced and so on. Typically vendors that also sell their products online typically have identical pricing, or even higher prices to protect that sales channel. Hope there will be a longer version to prove your claim - show us two identical products where one has lower quality.

[@DarkoAudio]

I think you need to listen to the last three words of this video again. Nowhere did I say „lower quality“.

[@rssreader7352]

I think this video is a bit ambiguous (as other commenters are also unsure of what is exactly being said) and could do with a longer more explicit treatment. Also as another commenter said, a manufacturer selling direct incurs costs to themselves, unlike bulk shipping units to a distributor and letting them deal with the hassle of selling to consumers.

[@richgrao]

Sorry, but this waaayyyy too simplistic. One commenter already made the point about direct to consumer S&M costs. Then you are assuming the manufacturer is only trying to get the same amount of profit in both scenarios. I would argue the direct to consumer seller will look at the market for similar products, and price slightly under the dealer sold competition. Not as dramatically under as you are suggesting.Then you have economies of scale also mentioned elsewhere, etc., etc. For example, are Emotiva integrated hugely better than equivalently priced Yamahas? Are there exceptions? Sure - RSL might be one. How about we do some video shootouts of direct vs dealer sold comparisons of equivalently priced equipment? That would be a little more on point.

[@bassandtrebleclef]

The term value added reseller (VAR)- in my experience - is mostly untrue. With few exceptions, I don't see resellers adding much value in the hifi space.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Being able to audition several pairs of loudspeakers in the same acoustic space, for example, is NOT adding much value?

[@RacingAnt]

​@ReverendDr.Thomas when people order their speakers on-line, they don't get this. It's why the bricks and mortar dealers are being squeezed out. Undercut by someone offering less.

[@michaeltaylor5451]

Your point about price amplification due to upgraded componentry is well taken but I'm not sure how often that happens in the HiFi realm. If I am understanding you correctly, this would be a reason to, if possible, buy manufacturer-direct. In my experience, it is standard practice for highly reputable companies to set SRP or the manufacturers suggested retail price. Dealer network requirements preclude the sale of items below that amount unless sold as-is and offenders can lose distribution agreements as well. My guess is that direct-sellers offer that service as part of a much larger marketing strategy along side dealer networks. But it is not a one-size-fits-all across every industry so that must be taken into account.

[@baronofgreymatter14]

High street = Main street in the USA

[@gioponti6359]

all things equal the good hifi shop lets you buy & return less and gets you to listen *to music* more. ;)

[@Michael-xz1nk]

I will add one more thing…the price of much of high end audio is off the rails IMO. Seems like most “boxes” are $2,500 -$5,000 and that’s on the low end. $25,000++ for speakers is fairly common today. It blows my mind. However, thankfully companies like Wiim, etc. are changing what is possible for “common man” music lovers.

[@DigitalPhilosophers]

Both ways are fine ❤️

[@monoblock.]

Well that’s wayyy oversimplified. You just explained the very basic economics focused on the minimum price a product has to cost. One look at Apple proofs you wrong. We pay what is most profitable. „Price elasticity“ is the keyword here. Not mentioning that a manufacturer selling direct to customers also need additional infrastructure including more sophisticated logistics, complex warehouse management, customer service, marketing that can be organised cheaper with a well oiled supply chain with multiple brand distributors and dealers. There is more to that. Don’t that BW 800 series sound much better since it’s 20% price increase last march? 🙃

[@nathankimmett8803]

lol profit margins are strictly for profit. Not sure where you got your info from but I would like to know who told you that lol.

[@JeyDeeSweden]

Well? Simply Build It Yourself! 🙂👍

[@DarkoAudio]

Simple? Hardly. DIY means paying with time (and not cash). But time is, in a roundabout way, money.

[@D1N02]

Time otherwise spent watching stupid Netflix shows is Time well spent​@@DarkoAudio

[@Thomas_A_H]

@@DarkoAudio Correct, and that's why it might be better for everyone if the company creating the product doesn't have to spend time with selling to end customers. Depends on various factors though, e.g. number of units sold and the price per unit. Selling few high-priced units isn't too much extra work for the company, because they wouldn't sell many units to/through the distributor either. But when selling many medium-priced units or even more lower-priced units you can save a lot of time (=money) by not doing it yourself.

[@miguelbarrio]

I was interested in a particular item hand made in Berlin. I know the manufacturer directly. I could have bought it from him, but to not put him at odds with the US distributor I decided to go through the latter. The distributor was so obnoxious that he forbid me to communicate with my friend directly. And he did absolutely nothing for me. I did get my product and I am happy with it, but as for the distributor, I have only bad things to say about him. What a worthless individual. Bottomline: I am willing to respect manufacturers’ distribution arrangements even if that costs me thousands of dollars (which it did) but frankly those distributors need to bring something to the table. In this particular instance he was way off the mark forbidding me and the manufacturer to communicate and I will tell everyone about this overreach.

[@descontrolador]

That's why we need you to evaluate Radiant Acoustics brand new Clarity 6.2 🤓 Best regards from Lisboa!

[@TheMinijobber]

Es ist eh egal. Ich fahre 30 km um mir eine Anlage anzuhören die in meinen Räumen ganz anders klingt und ich das nicht testen kann. Bei Versand habe ich 14 Tage Rückgabe… und in meiner Preisklasse von 5.000-6.000€ gibt sich kein Händler die Mühe.

[@DarkoAudio]

Ich mag lieber, dass Sie auf Englisch schreiben (wenn möglich). Danke. 🙏

[@hfvienna]

I am afraid "shorts" are what their name promises: Short of a lot of arguments. You are right to speak against the mere % rule, that a distributor or dealer needs a fixed percentage of profit. BUT you are not mentioning at all the costs for presenting the customer the different opportunities. I would give easily some money to dealers who can let me try the Schiit Aegir against the Topping B200 or the NAD M33. But only the latter is available through dealers. Companies like Nubert would not exist through dealers, because the housing of their firt models wre really poor and their woofer magnets smaller than the tweeter ones of serious manufacturers. DEALERS make selections to withhold garbadge from your choice if they are real dealers. Plus dealers need extra money to transfer gear to your house and help setting up even. So pls don't make shorts about complex questions, even TikTok generation is asking for.

[@nunopimentapaiva]

I guess I understand what you wanted to compare but I think you missed the word „only“. Also you did not make friends with manufactures and distributors. Comparing a company that uses distribution to sell its products at a certain end consumer price to a company that „only“ sells direct you are right. Example is Buchard audio selling only direct. They can spend more money on parts and build to achieve the same price or undercut the price for a similar performance or just Make more profit. But they need to do the work of the distributor and they will not grow worldwide as much due to lack of partners to sell their products.

[@samratraj77]

Don’t agree on 3x amplification

[@birgerolovsson5203]

Dealer, you can get so much lower price from the dealer so buy from them. I don't know why it is like that but that's how it ALWAYS is where I live so "what's not your point of this video" is as wrong as it can bee imo.