Buying Second Hand Model Trains | How To Avoid Getting Ripped Off

[@ErieRailfan3977]

The second hand market is like a double edged sword, on the one hand you could get a great train, but on the other hand, you could get very ripped off.

[@Cosmos-mz5ut]

I agree, i've personally never gotten ripped off, but I dont have any new locomotives except my bachmann jinty and dapol mogul GWR because alot of them are out of my price range, thats why i only really have 1950s-2000 locomotives, as those are better for me and more simple anyway.

[@Barbarapape]

You can get ripped off buying new, Sam has had a bad run of new loco's that were not acceptable.

[@Cosmos-mz5ut]

@@Barbarapape very true thats why i typically buy locos i know are good, like the old hornby-triangs and traings

[@Barbarapape]

@@Cosmos-mz5ut The original Hornby, Triang, Trix and Wren locos are far more robust and reliable than todays overpriced ones. Most of my collection are from the 60/70's and still run well without all this DCC expense.

[@jonathanmillar1975]

I have had mixed experience with buying second hand over the years. When I started collecting model railways, I was in my late teens and at college and did not have much cash. So, second hand was pretty much my only option. This was 30 years ago now and was fine and some good stuff. Note that this was mainly via my local model shop or at exhibitions. I have recently purchased some second-hand locos online but ended up having to send these back as they were not as described, damaged, or did not run. The world of Ebay is not all it is cracked up to be. I was lucky in that the sellers agreed for me to return the items, and I was fully refunded, including the postage. My big bug bare is that alot of second hand item are priced at not much less than the full retail price when brand new. To me, a second-hand item should be substantially less price than new, irrespective of whether it has never been used or otherwise. As the cost of new models has rocketed it feels like people selling secondhand items are ripping everyone off. The other issue is that people buy up loads of preorder items with no intention of using or wanting them and then put these on Ebay the day after they receive them at a higher price. I have given up on the secondhand market for now but will still look at items when I am at exhibitions or in my local model shop.

[@michaelwhite8031]

I don't see anything bad about second hand models as long, as you don't let your heart rule your head.

[@RAVAGERrules]

I’ve bought loads of second hand models off eBay. My first loco that I purchased was a used Proto 2000 BL2 locomotive for about $25 but it was disclosed that it ran rough and It likely was suffering from split axle gears. After a quick search for the gears and how to replace them, it ran sweetly and to this day years later it still glides along smooth as silk. I often go for used models cause I do enjoy tinkering with them and bringing them back to life.

[@gwheregwhizz]

Best buys I've found are mint condition non-runners. A bit of oil, soldering or a new motor gets them going.

[@stephendavies6949]

Yes, I have benefitted from this approach too.

[@ausfoodgarden]

Hey! Stop bidding against me. 😁Yes, for sure if you have the skills to fix them up it's a great way to go.

[@stephendavies6949]

@ausfoodgarden Yes, ours is a relatively small world, so I'm sure we have bid on the same items at times!

[@drecksaukerl]

Marklin locos made over 30 years ago that haven't been run will seize up since the oil that was used has gummed up. The Germans call the oil "Getriebekleister (transmission glue). If you know that, it's a simple matter to take out the motor armature and use WD40 to unstick the gears. The loco will run like a champ after that. I've bought several 1980s vintage non-runners and brought them back to life. Apart from the satisfaction of fixing something, it's also a great money saver.

[@stephendavies6949]

@drecksaukerl Do you mean WD40 Contact cleaner?

[@jacekay6031]

Sam, the first 2 minutes of this video is some of the most clear, concise and well-articulated presenting I've ever seen. It's quite an unintuitve concept and you explained it fantastically.

[@TidmouthSheds]

I think that buying models in person (like model shows or physical retailers) tends to yield the best results for second-hand models. I much prefer buying older models at shows like Model Rail Scotland (you can probably work out my local area from that) which are really sent out there to be bought, and will be discounted often if not picked up. You can always bring a 9v to the place and check models are in good running order, and also just inspect them generally.

[@davidsheriff8989]

Simple good advice

[@TidmouthSheds]

@@davidsheriff8989why thank you

[@vikingsmb]

shops and shows getting fewer, (in south wales at least), I tend to limit myself to hornby mechs (ringfield) or lima as I carry large stock of spares and standardise on mechs

[@SudrianFirelighter]

I did get some good stuff at Model Rail Scotland a few months ago

[@Barbarapape]

One tip i can give is you are buying used models online ensure that there a clear photo's of all sides of the model. Some sellers only show one side, this could mean that you end up with a damaged or incomplete model. Also check the sellers feedback, a string of negatives warns you to stay clear.

[@Benji_transport_vids]

By the way, usually the rip-offs or complete scams only show the original Seller's image, from the maker's website.

[@Barbarapape]

@@Benji_transport_vids A good point, having been conned a few times even by a well know retailer that has just closed, i now never buy anything that i can't see a full set of original photo's of.

[@gregbristow5135]

Or even worse, they show photos of the box, but not what's in the box! Not touching those ones. I have actually picked up a couple of nice ones where the photos weren't great. Good price on auction because others avoided, turned out the seller wasn't trying to hide anything they just weren't very good at taking photos. Is a gamble though, could go either way.

[@cbrooks122000]

I buy a lot of secondhand locos and what you have said is really good advice. I think virtually all you have said is what I do. Generally all the locos have been good buys but occasionally I get a duff one. The next thing that I always think is, " did the person know there was a fault or they genuinely didn't know". Fortunately I can fix most locos and I always work on the assumption when I buy on EBay, of "how much can I lose". The thing that also gets me is the amount of "non runners" I have bought where it is a simple repair or someone has fitted DCC, possibly died, and their relations sold it to a Dealer who because they only know about DC list it as a non runner. Some locos that I buy work but not properly and often I get the opinion that the fault was there from new. The person that is selling it, forgets why they don't run it anymore and just lists it as perfect. I bought a second hand 8F that kept derailing, I eventually found that one set of wheels weren't moving freely. I had to file the slot where the bearings fit ever so slightly and then it was perfect. Something like that has got to have been there since new.

[@captaincave5907]

Thank you so much for this video Sam! I got stung by the slightly seedier side of the second hand market last year, as I found and bought a Hornby J36 "Maude" on eBay. The seller claimed it was "mint condition" and "never run", and the photos seemed to support that. Then the model arrived and... well. The problems were: - The seller had snapped off and lost the smokebox dart and side oil valve. - Removed the detail pack. They only sent through the detail pack after I chased them up about it, only to find that the snowplough had been smashed to bits and that half of the brake rigging was absent. - The tarpaulin roll on the cab was hanging off - Tender was missing several screws (all of which were thankfully in the box but looked like they had just been thrown in). - Turns out the model hadn't been serviced in years, so I had to take it apart again to clean (and in one case replace) the pickups, lubricate the wheels, re-solder the motor wires and re-gauge the wheels before it started running adequately. - Motor core needed replacing, something followed by A LOT of mechanism cleaning. After all that, I'm happy to report the J36 is back in service, thanks to replacement parts from more reputable sellers (thank you Monk Bar Models!), but I'm now very careful with second hand sellers, considering I wanted a miniature reproduction of the locomotive, not a miniature version of a locomotive restoration!

[@hughoconnor9172]

Given all those issues why didn't you simply return it?

[@captaincave5907]

@@hughoconnor9172 unfortunately the seller refused to do returns, so I was stuck with it.

[@swiv99]

same here, i'm very careful now what i pick, or what im willing to spend money on parts for buying secondhand. The big name products are much easier to get parts for....It's the chance we take buying used if you cant physically inspect it or know what to look for in damage from photos.

[@nikerailfanningttm9046]

I only order my 3 Rail o scale from eBay occasionally….that is due to the fact that I order all my models from a well known second hand shop in Georgia. They ship them to my home city in Florida rather quickly. Yesterday at 5PM I ordered the Hornby Diecast Boiler 92220 DCC/Sound fitted from them pre-owned and they shipped it this morning at 8am.

[@patrickobert2581]

Great addition to the channel. We all appreciate honest conversation videos.

[@williamhall667]

I find some model clubs, sometimes sell off old items. These are often well looked after and serviced properly and most won't rip you off. I recently bought a LMS black five made by Airfix for £35 and they were more than happy for me to see it run before I bought it. Not only did it come with the original box, but It doesn't have any Glue marks or anything.

[@nigelduckworth4419]

I have bought nearly all my rolling stock second hand and that is more than 50 items. Every one of them is a perfect runner, even though a bit of tweaking the back to backs is sometimes needed. All of them negotiate all my points which are old Hornby, new Peco, old Peco -about 25 of them - without any problems on a small but complex layout. Not quite the same for the locos though. The last one from ebay, a B B Class Hornby pacific from the early 2000s but clearly barely used would not reverse. The wheel bearings had all been dislodged. But not too difficult a job to repair.

[@Studio23Media]

In the US secondhand sales are "buyer beware." As soon as you exchange money with someone for an object, it's yours and the seller has zero responsibility. Lots of people here get screwed for that. It sometimes turns into a cycle where people end up selling the product they got scammed with to someone else because the financial hit is too much to bear.

[@stuartaaron613]

Very useful video Sam. I have bought (and sold) many trains (mostly locomotives) through eBay, and a few other dealers. I find that it is very important to know about the item you are considering buying. This includes the reputation of the brand (some are better than others), any reviews of the models (such as watching your videos), and, as you pointed out, read the descriptions carefully. Also, when bidding on a model, bid with your head, not over it. There have been a few times when I so wanted a model that I bid way more than I should have. After receiving it I had buyer's remorse for spending so much money on it. Now, I set a limit as to how much I am willing to pay. If I win, great, if I lose, well, there will probably be another one available in the future which I might win.

[@drecksaukerl]

Well done, Sam. Just note that in the US, it's caveat emptor unless the seller specifically states that returns are ok. Even so, I would guesstimate that about 75% of my Marklin collection purchased over the last 20 years has been 2nd hand, much of it from Ebay. I've rarely gotten burned, and I've saved a boatload of money plus I've been able to get desirable pieces that are not easy to get. Apart from checking seller feedback, it's also important to stay disciplined and avoid "auction fever" when bidding. Decide on a maximum price you're willing to bid on and stick to it. If you lose, so be it. Chances are, an identical or similar item will come up again in the future. It's also a good idea to stick to analog technology. That way, you can buy and run old stuff without modification. Over the years, I've noticed that some people will dump pieces with older electronics for a song, yet they will still run fine on an analog layout. Therein is a great opportunity for those who want to stretch their dollars (or Pounds). Finally, see if you can get old catalogs for the manufacturer you're interested in. Some years ago, I was able to get an electronic archive of old Marklin catalogs going back to 1930. That has enabled me to research how long a given item was available and therefore gauge its rarity and guesstimate its value when deciding what to bid.

[@blueridgebonsai9155]

Being located in the US I have found that ordering locos online can be fraught with issues. This is especially true since several manufacturers have had problems with producing drive gears that crack over time. Hornby and Bachmann are well known for this. I have found that if a description says it is a non-runner or unreliable, etc. then it is best to pass on it unless you have an extensive parts collection. In my most recent case I ordered a Hornby West Country Class loco from a well known company that is no longer in business and in spite of being described a good runner it arrived with a split gear. The model was old enough that Hornby had “lost” the mold and so is no longer able to produce replacements. I finally figured out a way to create a 3D printed gear and fixed it myself. Since then I only buy pre-owned locos from Rails of Sheffield as I know they do test and guarantee their models to be as good as new, but that is only for those sold on their website, their eBay store is a different matter. I think Ellis Clark also is a good source.

[@aleopardstail]

100% good advice here also keep in mind there are a couple of sorts of online thing, like trying to get something reasonably recent for a reasonable price, of what I've spent the past few weeks on, buying very cheap stuff and taking the risk - accepting its older stuff. I have however gotten six locos for less than the price of a single "new" one.. all old, but good enough to get started with does help being willing to open stuff up and Sam's point on read the description is spot on, also the pictures - are there bits not being shown? but good way to sport nasties when "the pictures for part of the description" - e.g. missing couplings, really horrible repaints or damage like scratches and missing parts. further if bidding stuff, bid what its worth to you and then walk away, don't get drawn in to "must win", and also look up what getting the thing would cost from somewhere like a model shop, there are plenty of jokers selling stuff second hand for new or nearly new prices, and above in some cases.

[@TheSharkKing45]

2:21 this is especially true for older Tyco, Mantua , Model Power and Athearn, locomotive

[@project_toasty]

I almost exclusively buy second hand. You can get some great models for half the price of a comparable new one, sometimes even less. This goes especially for cars and coaches. It also helps that I have a great shop nearby.

[@philipbancroft]

Another thing to look out for is models for sale that have been upgraded by manufacturers such as Bachmann Class 20s, Hornby Brits etc. You might think you are getting the latest version, so always check the model number.

[@michaelthomas6138]

I’ve brought 2nd hand from Rails of Sheffield and TTCDiecast both reasonable priced and excellent condition. One even had a decoder still inside that I didn’t realise. Bonus.

[@houseproudcheshirelad50015]

I'm a member of Manchester Model Railway Society and at our annual show every December our secondhand stand has test tracks for OO, HO and N gauge locos and stock so customers can see how it runs before they buy. I like to try before I buy. The 9V battery and asking the trader if they can test a loco with it is also a good idea.

[@prairierailproductions6737]

If your a bit of a rivet counter, and your looking for a specific model, I recommend looking at photos beforehand of the model new and of the prototype and scouting out which details are more finicky and could have easily fallen of the model that you may not have spotted if you weren’t looking for it.

[@yeetboiwhatyesplease2095]

I just wait and stock up money for a model train show and buy stuff there. The people there show their models for sale in use, and on track you even bring it, granted only if it’s in the same scale

[@AVFCAM]

I remember the 2nd hand market 10 years ago…I saw a Hornby Accessory Decoder with one of the little plastic covers missing on sale on eBay and the current highest bid was higher than it was brand new in Modelzone…and they had it in stock as well…

[@Hellyers]

I went to the toy fair and second hand sale at Bluebell Railway last weekend... I bought my kids 2 entry level trains for £10 each. They were both in superb condition and are excellent runners. I can't afford to buy new, but second hand it's all very achievable.

[@CampervanJon]

Bought a lot of second hand models 2019-2021 from Hattons, never had any issues and loved buying none runners and watching channels such as yours working out how to fix them

[@tcm_tatra]

I've bought all my models on eBay , some of them were new , some of them even 40-50 years old. Most of them are running good , as described or I've managed to make them run if they weren't initially. On one tram for example the driveshafts were missing , but I didn't know at the time of the purchase and I couldn't test it at that time as I didn't have a layout. I've founded out after more than a year and obviously it was no chance to get the missing parts , so I've improvised shafts out of plastic tie wraps. Another tram didn't run at all , I bought one similar but newer and with manual and I founded out there that I can select the pickup mode , from rail or from pantograph , and my first tram was set for pantograph. Other models came alive with some oiling, cleaning , adjusting pickups or changing brushes. The only model that I can't figure out how to make it run is the Wickham trolley , it has way too many wires for how small it is and it's very hard to take it apart or to assemble it back without breaking any wire.

[@historyotaku]

A good video as always Sam. Allow me to add some of my own 2 cents as someone who almost exclusively buys second-hand models these days. First is to get a good idea of what the models are like so you know what you're getting yourself into. That way you're aware of any common issues with the models that you are likely to need to address or of the model is any good in the first place. The second is to be comfortable with servicing your models and making repairs. This way you'll be able to address any potential running issues a model has. This decreases the chance of you getting burned with a nonrunning/poor running model even if you do have to make repairs yourself and increases the chance of getting bargains as often times a good service and some minor repairs is all nonrunning/poor to get running well again.

[@Brayden4472]

The way I usually get rolling stock is antique malls! All I do to them is replace the wheeles with metal ones and replace the couplings with modern ones! As for locos I’m not afraid to get any second hand. I have not had any problems with it!

[@ShukakuTheCrazy1]

I once bought an amtrak coach off ebay. It said it was HO scale, but when i got it, it was N scale! Eh, i liked it and kept it. I did see a listing for an HO loco that was actually an O scale. I notified the seller. They didnt know their model trains. Even admitted so. They did correct the listing. I happen to have that same model, plus the underside was an instant tell.

[@Locomattive8572]

I run a second hand model railway shop. Just be honest, service where needed and provide the best customer service you can. It’s getting my business off the ground. I also offer 14 warrant / returns, and encourage customer get in contact if a model develops a fault after that.

[@SamsTrains]

Absolutely right - honest and good service will-out! Sounds top notch to me :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Just_Another_Youtube_User-i6k]

Recently bought a loco from Locomattive Models. From start to finish, the experience has been 1st class. Excellent communication, fast shipping, incredible prices and a fantastic selection of models, many rare and hard to find even. However, what makes this place the real deal is the customer care. My model arrived with some slight damage to the tender. I raised this and was refunded the cost of a replacement tender body with no fuss or drama. Hugely appreciated! If you're looking for models, buy from this store!

[@OlivierGabin]

Good points here Sam. Roughly, for an estimation of a price, you can divide the price of the new item by two, and take it as the basis for searching a second hand one. Take care about the offer and demand rule, this is the main factor that can makes prices vary from place to place. With the 50% price for a new one rule, you can factor out the VAT the retailer makes you pay (UK and France : 20%, Germany : 19%, Ireland : 23%, Italy : 22%, Croatia : 25%) and a reasonable depreciation. For the very old models (>15 years), you have to factor inflation. Get the original price online if you can and factor the inflation with an inflation calculator before applying the 50% rule. For instance, a Roco BR 50 scale HO of 1980 was sold 500 FRF at its time. That is 82€ corrected for inflation, which put a second hand price on a 41€ basis. Depending of its overall aspects, you can have a second-hand price from 30 to 50€ for a running engine. The same type of locomotive is for sale for 345€ new. If you go through a retailer, you have to add its margin. For sales of second-hand still pictures camera, in France, the margin the retailer takes is 15%, take this a a basic indication of the overprice you have to expect compared with a particular-to-particular sale.

[@westernnewyorkrailfan]

Cracked drive gears seem to be commonplace over here in the US with many models. I try to buy new when I can, but it is very rare. Most of my purchases are some form of used/like new. It is much more cost effective and sellers often agree to sending videos of a model running. That has been my biggest help buying from eBay or buy/sell groups on Facebook. Those sellers are often much better than buying directly off marketplace. Great video, Sam!

[@МарияМалакова-м8ц]

wdym?

[@DaveAtLittleton]

Just a foot note on repair. It says if the customer damaged it by repairing it and says they may still have a right to repair, so if for example, a hand rail fell off and you glued it back on and then later the motor burns out, you should still be entitled to a refund/replacement/repair as it was not your repair that caused the problem for which it's being returned. Sellers can't necessarily refused a refund becuse you carried out a repair but if you do, as says Sam says. You do need to be aware that you are responsible for any repairs you carry out and they 'could' invalidate your warrenty.

[@DaveAtLittleton]

I buy a lot of second hand, one of the best parts is, if you get a duffer, you didn't wasted hundreds of pounds 😂

[@Tinhat47]

The vast majority of my collection is second-hand (I think I’ve only bought two models brand new). Hatton’s and now TMC have never let me down. In fact some with some dire descriptions ended up being fantastic with just a little TLC.

[@gladams56]

Here in the states I often buy second hand post war Lionel and Marx trains. Part of the joy is repair and restoration and setting s model run efficiently after sitting unused sometimes for decades.

[@thecommissaruk]

I haven't bought a brand new train sice getting a Mallard ten years ago. I've since bought probably ten second hand locomotives and about 20 assorted bits of rolling stock, mainly from eBay. The same basic precautions apply to model trains as everything else - avoid any who won't show it out of the box, or use the manufacturer's pictures instead of their own, check their feedback, and _actually_ _read_ _the_ _description_ (having sold loads of stuff, the number of times people don't read descriptions is staggering). Consequently - or perhaps luckily - I haven't been scammed or received one in unexpectedly poor condition, and haven't been ripped off.

[@martinwoodworth3715]

I've got a Hornby flying scotsman in br green. I had it for xmas in 1974. I sold all my stuff in early 1976 except this loco & an 060 loco. The scotsman hasn't been used since end of 1975. Its in its box in a draw now. I still hope to get going again one day.

[@johnholt890]

Sam all good advice remember re that a shop is subject to sale of goods act re merchantable quality but a private seller is not. So worth checking status of who you are dealing with. Also EBay do provide quite resilient protection for buyers but less for sellers in my experience.

[@Mariazellerbahn]

Also, if you buy new, you will have to wait until the warranty has expired before you weather it. Most shops won't honour a warranty if you have messed about with it. That also includes fitting your own decoders.

[@Dreadtower]

It’s partly a question of accountancy. You have to pay tax on the value of certain assets held at the end of the tax year. This includes the value of stock held.

[@PlatformONE]

Another idea is to take a screenshot of the description & photos. If you buy second-hand from an official retailer they are meant to have a warranty.

[@sabre0smile]

I've got some absolutely stellar models for less than £10 that just needed a new motor or a gearchange. It's worth noting that if you can put the work in to fix broken things, they can be fantastically cheap. That said, you will sometimes acquire an absolute lemon and have to take the loss, same rules as to condition of locomotive in the listings/on shelves apply.

[@garysoap7925]

Keep in mind some manufacturers such as Hornby have thrown away old tolling due to the storage costs.

[@auscrypt9290]

I buy cheap old locomotives that don't work on eBay and fix them most of the time they just need a clean

[@daviemaclean61]

I have only bought two or three locos new, because I had vouchers to use and I wanted the particular loco. The rest have all been second hand and my most expensive purchase was £80, again because it was one I really wanted. It does help, price wise, that my layout is DC so I don't have to worry about the complexities of DCC. My main advice would be to do your due diligence, check all the pictures, read, and re-read, the description and ask questions of the seller if necessary. And be prepared to "walk away", in person or on line. Another one will be along before long. I may just have been lucky, but I have only had one loco stop working, and it was years after purchase, so hardly grounds for a return. A coating of rust and a tarp and it stands rusted and abandoned on a siding!

[@modelrailfan37]

Great tips! I have been put off from buying second hand a little since I’ve been ripped off before, but some of these tips really help! A tip with the 9V battery though is that won’t work for DCC fitted locos.

[@bruceames6332]

Sam, this info was perfect for us modelers it makes us aware of the good and bad about the hobbies we like. Thank You

[@MattTrains2001]

So fair I've had decent experiences buying second-hand, including a "non runner" that actually ran perfectly but one thing that annoys me is the people selling new models from the likes of Accurascale and Cavalex for 3 to 4 times the original RRP

[@RaysRailVideos]

During shows most clubs with a layout or other layout owners will happily test locos for people on there layouts during show time, after all we are there to help promote the hobby as well as have some fun playing trains

[@jordandegraaff]

I’ve asked before and I realize you’re busy and have video ideas planned a ways in advance, but I’d like to reiterate that I’d love to see a video on the most essential locomotives and rolling stock someone should get if they just starting a British model collection. For me, I don’t care so much about era and company, I’m just curious to know what you consider is essential to have as part of a collection. Thanks!

[@AllensTrains]

I have had a few non-runners from eBay. But in each case I only had to print out a return label and take the item to the Post Office. The thing to check for in the pictures are missing buffers, broken couplings, missing coupling hooks, all plastic wheels on coaches, amateur paint jobs. It is also important to be sure the item is OO gauge and not HO gauge, even if it is a British prototype! Trix British outline coaches are made to a smaller scale. Checking the couplings will reveal the model is N gauge, when the photo is not very clear. Thanks for your advice.

[@BrakeCoach]

I've gotten a lot of second-hand models that were way cheaper than its RRP. For example the APT I got for half off, and a sound fitted Princess Royal for 130. I can admit that there were some minor issues, but at those price points I don't mind it at all. It also helps that there is no VAT charge for overseas as well.

[@paulputnam2305]

Thank You Sam for the awesome information and really caring about us. You are very appreciated.

[@Tirana-qg1ft]

I miss Hattons I used to get amazing second hand deals there. And they were honest and upfront about any issues.

[@robertlucido3686]

I bought second-hand trains for a long time, like at train shows, but I do buy a new model as my birthday present, I also like doing that in my O gauge and S gauge trains

[@NWRJ_WStudios]

It's a very interesting topic Sam. I used to buy all my model from eBay for a great price, but now I'm lucky to find a seller who will even ship to the US. Cheers Jasper & Willow

[@mikerobertson7435]

very interesting. I have an extensive UK collection that I am trying to re position and after Hattons demise I really do not have an out let

[@Evaunit98]

Recently I’ve had a decent experience with second hand buying, I got an NRM 75th edition Scotsman from my local model shop for a very good price, pristine condition and it runs perfectly, hell it’s even under warranty, the box is a bit tatty but that’s not exactly an issue for me, the model that lied inside was a gem.

[@williamsquires3070]

Hi Sam. I usually don’t buy second-hand unless it’s at a model train show where I can see all sides of the model; top, bottom, front, back, and left & right sides. For rolling stock, this isn’t such a problem as I can get spare couplers, wheels, trucks (bogies), and other detail parts fairly easily. But first engines, this is a necessity so that I can check to see if the model may have taken a trip to the floor, or maybe got liquid damage, or too much lint, dirt, pet hairs, etc… from running on track on the carpet. The other warning I’d give to those looking to save costs is to practice their repair skills on low grade stuff, like Sam’s Worst 10 trains of 2023, or some such. This way, you gain experience, and you don’t feel bad if you trash a $30 loco trying to re-motor it, or you get too overzealous with the old soldering iron! Plus, you can practice painting and weathering on them and not worry if your first few attempts look like the result of a zombie attack, but most people (like me) would be hesitant to practice on a $250+ model they just got from the hobby store! As for manufacturers making too few of a particular prototype, yeah, that sux. Often they vastly underestimate the demand for a specific model, and screw themselves out of additional sales, but usually it’s because they’re pandering to the collector market, not the casual modeler. 😢 But people like Sam, with a 3D printer (or two) and the willingness to do research and invent, may offer hope to the casual modeler! Finally, don’t forget that other modelers in your area may have old locos or rolling stock they no longer want, or that are sitting on an unused siding as “decoration.” They’d probably be willing to trade with you for something else you might have that they’ve been looking for since the beginning of the Universe (or at least since they began with that first toy train set under the Christmas tree.) A model railroad club is another good idea, if there’s one in your area! ❤

[@OriginalBongoliath]

Another unmentioned avenue are model rail clubs. Many times, members either a) sell their own stuff at a bargain b) come into an estate sale if a member dies (I know our club had two recently) or c) may know someone or somewhere to get models at a bargain.

[@johnbradshaw5900]

An obvious solution to high prices is to buy less. That may sound glib, but how many trains do people need? Noting that nobody 'needs' a model in the true sense, it’s a discretionary purchase. The models I buy are very expensive (Japanese brass) but I don’t buy much. I keep seeing complaints about prices from people with pre-orders which are insane, indicating that whatever they say prices aren't the barrier they claim. For thrifty buyers s/h is an excellent option.

[@oregonwesternrailroadprodu5239]

honestly speaking about 80% of my collection is 2nd hand mostly because i simply can’t afford alot of brand new items where a new covered hopper would cost 65$ (51£) i could go to my local train shop and find a used one for 20$ (16£) now yes there are alot of things to be cautious about and if your just starting off i think a local train shop or train show is the best place to start because you have so many knowledgeable people willing to help you get started

[@jakeaviator1515]

That's the US pricing. It is a ripoff. In the UK the hobby is much better

[@oregonwesternrailroadprodu5239]

@@jakeaviator1515 idk considering the pound to usd conversion a small van is almost as much as some of our stuff

[@Hobie167]

I always look on Sam's Trains as I'm new to the hobby so Sam's reviews helps. My favourite is a 2004 Hornby Mallard a great runner I have had problems and Sam's tips will help

[@paullepine4765]

I find regular dealers at toy fairs are the best source for second hand. They know their market, generally charge very fair prices ( you get to know which ones are best), they fully test them first and will always take returns if there is a fault.

[@dannagy546]

Just today, I got in a train from an ebay auction, except instead of a 300 dollar brass locomotive I got two 20 dollar cars and haven't heard from the seller yet.

[@marksinthehouse1968]

You have to be careful I got done my a certain retailer who has a stall on the northwest and is on line said to have been fully serviced in full working order ,good job I had spares as postage to return was alot ,I best not tell you who he is but he’s no angel

[@robertsparks3685]

Thanks. I have purchased a lot of second hand. Shipping can be an issue. Since I live in Canada, finding stuff in North America can be helpful.. EBay has a sort for local availability. Usually I have a specific model in mind when I go searching. As you suggested, then it is easier to research the real value of the model before hand.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah shipping is a good point - I've spent a fortune too shipping from the US to here! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Quince828]

I agree that shipping is often the deciding issue. Bringing trains into Canada from the states seems hardly worth it once I factor in shipping, duties, and the risk of damage. Just not worth it at the price.

[@paulsummerside]

Evil bay is where I have been generally buying my model railway gear. On my return to the hobby. It is saving me a bit money in general. But with postage prices being as high as they are, it can wipe out any real feeling if getting a bargain. And of course sometimes not obvious from photos where we may not be getting quite what we wanted.

[@Hooterton_Model_Railway]

I’ve found going to toy fairs is the place for bargains. This is especially true for coaches and wagons. I avoid eBay for the most part but the occasional bargain comes up.

[@thevauxhallman7157]

I bought a Hornby A3 loco recently from eBay, the listing had a video showing the model running the length of half an oval track, seller said it was a good runner. When I first tried it on my track, the motor was screaming but not moving, I diagnosed a slipping steel spur gear, that needed changing to a brass one (known modification), the seller was very fair and gave me a discount so I could buy brass gears ( they come in a 10 pack). So I was quite happy.

[@Teesbrough]

Another tip is to check out specialist auctions. The one I follow is Vectis, based in Thornaby. They run a model train auction with around 600 lots every month. Although I very rarely buy locos or rolling stock from them, it’s a great way to find out relative values on the secondhand market as, I presume, many lots are sold to retailers for onward sales in their shops or at exhibitions.

[@ethmister]

Vectis is great but im addicted to it for large batches of random Rollingstock

[@Larry]

I've bought a couple of job lots on eBay in the past, they usual contain several older train sets and are a great way to instantly bulk out your collection cheaply when starting out!

[@GunnbriktRailways]

Didn't know you were a Railway Modeller Guru Larry! Maybe some model railway videos in the future 😉

[@9501599]

I've bought 2nd hand class 08s from Hattons, they really didn't say it wouldn't run well. However, I got it running and its now half of 13003, it was a reasonable price for what it was. I live in New Zealand so returning stuffed models back to England 🇬🇧 isn't cheap, so watching how you repair locomotives is a bonus and it's awfully handy knowledge. Cheers

[@cathybrind2381]

I live in NZ too. Buying second hand is the only real option here as new models are unbelievably rare and expensive, and ordering stuff from the UK is tedious and in my view not really worth the bother. I bought a couple of Hornby 6 wheel coaches a few weeks ago. These were my first new purchases in years. You take the risk and trust yourself to repair anything that's damaged. I always detail my models anyway so it's no big deal. But if you're a box opener with few genuine modelling skills then you must be particularly careful.

[@AussiePom]

On the returns I have a Heljan Lion which I bought from the UK and when I received it wouldn't run because one drive shaft had come out from one side of the motor with both bogies being driven. The shop I bought it from told me of a bodge job to fix it, but I sent the loco back to Heljan in Denmark from Australia. Heljan fixed it and also refunded the postage costs and told me I was wise not to try the bodge job that the model railway shop in the UK had recommended as it would have instantly voided the warranty on the loco. Heljan would have still fixed it but they would have charged me to do it and probably not refunded the postage costs. I also bought a new Bachmann Class 24 and one plastic bogie frame was not fitting properly and Bachmann sent me free of charge a replacement. They have their own repair department where people send their locos and one chap sent a standard 4 tank with a note attached "nobody has touched this loco". Yet the repair people could see the teeth marks on the loco where the family dog had been chewing on it. Then these people will go online and say that Bachmann doesn't care about customer service because they had to pay. But that's the trouble we only get to hear one side of the argument not both sides. Bit I did get to see both sides of an argument when a local model shop here sold a new loco to a bloke who took it home and dropped it breaking the loco. He tried to get a refund and the model shop said no. He then went on Google reviews saying that the model shop knowingly sells defective locos. But the model shop owner replied to the the review saying TELL THE TRUTH!. You bought the loco brand new took it home and dropped it onto a hard service breaking it and then you returned to our shop demanded a refund even though you admitted that you broke the loco.

[@exarkun42]

Much of my collection was built buying second hand. I highly recommend Clark Railworks. The only time I had an issue was when a loco listed as "new in box, never opened" was missing a buffer.

[@paulmoore6345]

They are good 👍

[@Hacksworth_Sidings]

One thing you totally glossed over is the uprise of AI generated item descriptions on eBay, I’ve seen things like “Graham Farish OO Merchant Navy… …Is a “ready-to-go” and “pre-built” model” when the model has clearly succumbed to zinc pest, or “Graham Farish OO GWR King… …Has a 4-6-2 wheel configuration”, or “The gauge is OO and the scale is 1:148”

[@johnlong3214]

It doesn't help on Ebay when a seller lists an item as used then adds that phrase "None runner" in their description. If an item is a none runner it belongs in the, For parts or not working list and Ebay clearly states this in their definintion of the listings. You are so right telling us to be careful, thank you Sam.👍

[@stevejh6630]

Also avoid "not tested"!

[@johnlong3214]

@@stevejh6630 Its a mine field🌟

[@penguinearthfgmusic120]

The first time I bought a second hand locomotive it didn't work. It took me 6 years to gather my courage to try it again. This locomotive was analogue although my layout is digital, but after fitting it with a decoder, it runs reliably to this day. And all second hand models I've bought after the first-time failure work properly and I have a lot of fun with them. From every purchase I've learned a lesson to pay more attention to what I want to buy.

[@PeterEdin]

I've got the Bachman Deltic prototype DCC mint in box. Was exclusive to the NRM at the time.

[@blinard1]

Great video. Id love to see a series where you buy bargain 2nd hand items or job lots and do them up. Maybe profits to charity ect!?

[@zoetrent2500]

I recommended this to my friend and he saved nearly thrice as much he would have paid. Thanks Sam!

[@stuartsaunders-nb6ve]

The 1st thing ido is see if parts are available for the train or upgrade kit if I'm buying online for what I'm buying this way i can work out what the price is if it needs something either when i get it or later down line so if the train cost £50 but a new motor is £35 than i see if i get one for around £80-£100 from a model shop instead. I only do this on untested or non running if it says it is in full working order than i do send back if it is not

[@jackstrains4468]

Thanks so much for the advice Sam - i love buying second hand, especially from model ships, but facebook marketplace, that's a big no-no - I lost 40 quid there as it was a scam :( I also love the process of fixing locos, as i find it very rewarding! As always, great video sam!

[@Gatherleymodeller.]

Model ships

[@theelectricmonk3909]

I've only bought a few bits via FB Marketplace - and from a local chap where I could go and have a look at the items before I actually handed over any cash. That worked well IMHO, but I'd be leery of buying something from further afield. At least with eBay - as much as they are a pain in the proverbial if you're a seller - as a buyer you do get some good protection.

[@brlsm9141]

Another great insight Sam, although, in the case of an auction. I would say you still need to research the going price of a product before bidding in order to protect yourself from Shill Bidding. It is especially a problem on eBay as despite it causing numerous problems and frustrations for both sellers and buyers for years, I still personally see examples of it. That being said I have caught a few sellers out before and got a cheaper price because I stick my rule of when I hit my max price, that's it... No more bids.... Leaving the sellers with either their 2nd account, or their friends account as the winning bidder for their own item.... Usually then resulting in the shill bidders bid been cancelled and my lowest bid before been gazumped as the winning bid. Meaning I then got an item cheap. However, I have also read it's worked against genuine sellers where a shill bidder who was bidding someone else up for the fun of it then withdraws out of the sale at end of auction and the seller ends up having to relist the item at cost because the other genuine buyers have already bought an alternative item elsewhere.

[@GarthDavies-cd5oh]

When studying a photo and you noticed some details are missing ,ring up and asked them to check. I bought a second hand weathered 08 shunter from TMC and they confirmed that the missing handrails were still in a sealed accessory packet.

[@jbhtrams]

I once nought a Heljan class 26 Brand New, non runner sold as seen, from Hattons. When it arrived, I put it on the track; nothing. Took the body off and thought "It can't be that?" It was. The DCC blanking plate was missing. I put in a spare one I had and 'Hey Presto' everything worked perfectly!!! I paid £34 for it. At tge time tge new ones were going for about £130. It's amazing what you can get 2nd hand/cheap???

[@jvbndofvbnebe]

Hi Sam! I have a question that might be interesting for others wanting to buy second-hand. I've been considering getting some 1990s Hornby tender driven locomotives, such as A3s and A4s, but I saw people saying that these models from the 90s will have problems running on tracks smaller than code 100. I use kato unitrack, and this is a serious issue, considering that the locomotives might derail on points and something like that. I also saw some tests with Hornby locomotives (the caledonian 0-4-0t) in which they did well on these tracks. However, I think it's important to know, since I want to be certain about it. So I'd like to know if these 1990s tender driven locos can be problematic when running on code 83, and if so, if there's a way to modify then to run in these kinds of tracks. Thank you for your content! It's been really helpful since I started on model railways

[@georgebottarini1788]

Hi Sam. I have had both good and bad with eBay second hand. When it’s bad it’s very bad. I purchased a GS4 Daylight and when I got it the drive wheels fell off. The seller offered to refund a portion of the purchase. The next time I bought one it was perfect. I had a real problem when I purchased an N scale from eBay from a vendor in Germany. They responded to all my request for return in German and eventually just ignored me. On the whole I would say it’s been positive.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for sharing George - ahh was that one of the Bachmann split chassis ones? Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@peterberesford-l3s]

thanks Sam a lot of good advice. i'd add be confident, be friendly and keep your cool!!!

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

Sorry for being so late to see this Sam, but I spent the a good portion of the day working on the Hobbytown E-unit set I just got off of ebay for only £40! After getting the lead unit working, I weighed it and found out that its 890 grams!!! Now I haven't even put any weights in, so its just the diecast body, frame, motor, flywheel, and bogies, but even with all the empty space, it is unstoppable. I cant even stop the motor (out of the body) by gripping it with my fingers. The other two E-units aren't as heavy, but for 40 quid, I can easily put hundreds of grams into them to make them powerhouses as well. How much did the Bachmann E7 weigh? Anyways, Thanks as always Sam!

[@Mike__B]

I would also say that if you can hit up a train show, you can see the product right there, you can see if it runs (sometimes) there is a price there and you could possibly haggle for a lower price instead of having to outbid someone. Personally I would stay away from ebay if at all possible unless you are looking for something very specific

[@mikeking2539]

A good video giving advice for people who may not have bought second hand (sometimes called Pre-owned) models. I think buying face to face from a shop, or a show is best if you can do this!.

[@williamnichols467]

A decent number of my model trains are second hand, being acquired from places like eBay or the different marketplace sites, or even train shows and antique malls

[@samanthaelder1801]

Having watched this video I totally agree & understand what you were saying. Another thing to look out for is when the seller on ebay states that returns are not accepted.

[@reconphil]

I buy second hand non runners & repair them. I've bought second hand runners & had good luck with both the model & the sellers.

[@railwaychannel66745]

I just shop online for wagons or dummy coaches/power cars, if I'm buying second hand locomotives I go to a model shop where I see it get tested or if it's damaged.

[@piers995]

I've had some great bargains from Ebay and one or two lemons. I've bought one or two poor runners that the seller had not mentioned in the details only to find after a little bit of fettling, repairs and replacement of parts that these lemons have turned out to be excellent purchases. Watch those pictures. If there are two from the left side of the loco and none showing the right side, could there be damage on that side that the seller doesn't want to you to see.

[@ausfoodgarden]

Yep, check the pricing and if you see an auction listing that says "Rare" expect to get ripped off. On the other hand, I've bought some nice wagons on auction for 99p.