Bypassing your computer's internal DAC

[@brianw.36]

Paul, thank you for affirming early in your video, that I’m not the only person that either needs to focus on his work, or focus on the music, but not both at the same time! How people are productive at the same time they listen to music is an absolute mystery to me, I’m so jealous.

[@gathda]

I can’t focus when it’s too quiet. With instrumental guitar music, I can totally get absorbed in what I’m doing.

[@scottperrin9655]

Here's a mind blower for you...our secretary at work listens to 2 of our stations at once...same volumes. She'll have our Classic Rock station streaming on her computer, and our News Talk playing on her radio while she works. She just mentally switches and focuses back and forth as things comes on she likes. 🤯🤯🤯

[@banjomir519]

External USB DACs also bypasses the internal DAC of a PC, just to be clear.

I know what you mean when you say that music is a distraction and up until now I didn't come across anyone else having the same feeling. When I hear a song I even remotely like, it's impossible for me to fight the urge to stop anything I'm doing at the moment and simply enjoy the music and get lost in the sound. I know that I'm not the only one, but much thanks for letting me know I'm not alone.

[@phrtao]

Totally agree about music distracting you. If you love music you listen to music as an activity and do nothing else while you are doing it. As far as connecting a computer to a DAC goes I would use USB Audio (2 or 3 protocol) rather than SP/DIF. Also the software on your computer makes a real difference. In fact don't use Windows or MacOS unless you have to - ALSA audio on Linux is the way to go. I recommend Strawberry Music Player for 'bit perfect' reproduction (make sure to set the 'backend' to an ALSA device via the PCM module and then choose the appropriate profile for your DAC).

[@louisvaleovna7993]

The way you're presenting things is exceptional Mister

[@lev_anni]

Thank you Paul, very informative, this is just a second video I've watched so far and definitely sure I will watch more! Two questions I have - My laptop produces a high pitch sound when I pause audio but it goes away if I play and pause again, is this internal DAC to blame or a sound card? Otherwise the sound coming out is very clean, so my second question would be - Are external DACs better in terms of sound quality even if we don't experience this kind of weird artifacts or just noise? Thanks!

[@spacemissing]

Every power cord I use is a "courtesy cord", and almost all of the audio cables I use are, too. So far I have no complaints about the results.

[@ewoutbuhler5217]

never bother, it's an audiophile thing to assume ultra high grade powercords, rediculously priced "interlinks" and idiotic overpriced speakercable are required to produce high quality music reproduction. Just make sure the cables are compliant to the specifications, that's suffient. And the specifications are rather simple, they will just have to be able to handle the current without heating up and should be the correct impedance.

[@ewoutbuhler5217]

@Douglas Blake I agree, good correction. Having said this, it's stil a valid concern to use a decent cable, just to minimise any noise being picked up. But I would really challenge anybody to choose the correct cable in a blind test, one cable of 50$ and one cable of 5000$. If there's somebody that picks the 5000$ cable 10 out of 10 tries, I would be seriously impressed and surprised...

[@HerbsmanRevs]

I've recently got a Denon AVC-X3700H amp with Heos and I noticed something I didn't expect. I've always listened to music via a HDMI cable connected to the graphics card (amp in Pure Direct mode) as it's primeraly a HTPC setup. But when trying music through Heos I noticed a big difference, not just a slight improvement in quality but a big difference in stereo separatation. Now I only use Heos for music and the PC for video/movies.

[@diavels1473]

Totally agree with you. I also got a Denon AVR X3700H and noticed a huge difference when using HEOS via my smartphone paired to the Denon compared to the same song read from the PC via USB to the Denon. Same feeling when using Spotify via PC through HDMI or using Spotify Connect through the Denon, there is a big difference. I still don't know if the HDMI used between the PC and the Denon by passes the DAC of the PC so I only use HEOS or Spotify connect from my smartphone paired to the Denon. A bit sad to read negative comments about people criticizing the ones who are no specialists in digital stuff, we all love and enjoy listening to music the best way we can, advising and supporting is defintely more constructive than telling people they suck in what they do as it was "SO OBVIOUS". Sharing is caring ;)

[@mataba8026]

My only issue with Denon and HEOS is it does not support MQA, but it does support PCM Even tho many not like MQA, it should be consumer to choose. Solution for me is ofc my DCD-1450AR even if its old, it beats the shit of any streaming i heard so far. But really depends on the source's mastering, this is same on streaming.

[@h4xor1701]

it's because using your AVR in Pure Direct it deactivate all PEQ and room corrections done via audyssey. You'd better to use straight mode wich deactivates only DSPs

[@HerbsmanRevs]

@@h4xor1701 You don't need that for 2 channels, only surround. The sound quality is noticeably better in Pure Direct mode.

[@ReneAlexisPenalozaMunoz]

I am in way an audiophyle. My little rig consists on a MacMini plugged via firewire into a Focusrite external audio interface which has multiple outputs. Two of those outputs are connected into a pair of Yamaha HS80 (8") monitors. They are close range speakers and sound good to me.

[@boredjedi2332]

Couldn't agree with you more. S/PDIF is the way to go if available to you. Although I do prefer Coax digital cable over optical cable but that's another story. I finally put together a proper home theater at the end of 2015 and went all digital. Coax for the Blu ray player and optical for when I hook the computer up to the receiver and DLP projector. Before that, everything was analog and the difference in background noise from the motherboard was amazing. In other words, 0 background noise. My receiver is probably considered by most an antique. It's a JVC RX-7000v I bought in 1999 for around $299. Not expensive but not cheap either. I guess a mid-class unit. It has never failed me and the sound is amazing. Don't know what dac is used and unfortunately it doesn't have HDMI connections but so far with my current setup that's not a big issue. The one thing I did notice is that I prefer DTS over Dolby with my setup. I've checked all my Blu Rays that had both Dolby and DTS and every single one of them the DTS was louder, brighter in sound overall especially a stronger center channel and much much better channel separation. All I know is that whenever I have friends and family over and we watch movies they love the huge screen and the audio always gets a rave review from 'em. I even demonstrated the difference between DTS and Dolby switching between the two formats after watching the movie and replaying it for the demonstration. They all overwhelmingly prefer the DTS as well so at least I know it's not just me.

[@D1N02]

Don't use your house pc for streaming or playback but get a Raspberri Pi dedicated transport. It's cheap and once set up a lot less hassle from switching between sound outputs.

[@andydelle4509]

Some motherboards even have an SPDIF connection option on the motherboard. But very often these "TTL compatible". which basically means that signal is intended to drive another chip close by. It is not intended to drive a 75 ohm cable and load. It may work but you run the risk of damaging the sound chip on your motherboard. There are plenty of DIY driver circuits online to address that but if you are not an electronics DIYer, just use USB. And in some cases USB even performs better than SPDIF.

[@RayR]

It's funny how people have been enjoying the music they listen to and have no issues with the audio quality when they play games for many years since motherboard manufacturers have integrated sound into the boards themselves. Audio has come along way. For most people a non ideal DAC isn't an issue. As a person who writes and records music I can hear the difference and spend the money for high quality equipment but I don't' expect your average PC owner to do the same.

[@mrq1701]

What if an audiophile with an above average audio system wants to use the PC to stream high quality audio? It seems the less processing the better. I want to know how to get Windows out of the way and send the stream directly to my DAC via USB

[@MidnightToker24]

3:09 Here's your answer 👍

[@alanalain4884]

Hi Paul, I read everywhere that you can bypass your internal AVR's DAC by connecting an external DAC using analog cable (RCA) from the external DAC to the AVR, whereas if I would use Digital/Optical/USB,, I would then send a digital signal which would then be re-converted by the AVR's internal DAC (which makes sens so far, but we'll see how apparently useless later...). Because, this is all nice... BUT , to what point is it BS ? Since I just read somewhere this, in upercase bellow, from someone that seems to know a lot more than the newbie I am with audio: " PRACTICALLY ALL AVRs TODAY PUT THEIR ANALOG INPUT INTO AN ADC FOR AUDIO PROCESSING (BASS MANAGEMENT, SURROUND PROCESSING, ETC) SO IN THE END YOU'RE USING THE AVR's DAC" If this is the case, then aren't there thousands that, not knowing that when bypassing their AVR's DAC with RCAs from their eternal DAC, and praising how good their external DACs sound, are just hearing a difference that don't exists, since they would still be listening to their AVR's internal DAC at the end ? What is this shit ?.. Please, if you (or anyone) have any knowledge on that, any insight would be very welcome for all... And then if this is the case, does that mean that all people with receivers are condemned to their receivers'DACs unless they just replace the receiver with separate components ? But then, aren't the manufacturers doing same on the separate components, where then it would the last link of the chain with an integrated DAC that would be used ? Hard to sort out...

[@waltercheslock1466]

Paul, I run a USB out to my external I-fi dac Is this using the SPDF? PS I NEVER listen and do work at the same time.

[@SzilardPusztafalvi]

I'm using a $15 DAC and optical for my pc. Night and day. 0 noise clear sound. With powered studio monitors individually has amps.

[@dagnisnierlins188]

You should really try a proper dac, like topping e30 or d10, which are entry level dacs, I can guarantee you will have another moment of night and day difference.

[@SzilardPusztafalvi]

@@dagnisnierlins188 I do if I sit front of my computer more than an hour a month...

[@ford1546]

@@dagnisnierlins188 Does not help to have extra good dac. if your speakers are not built properly and have good sound. 80% of all cases, it is the speakers' fault that you do not get good sound.

[@dagnisnierlins188]

@@ford1546 we are talking about changing out a $15 dac to a actual dac with proper in and out circutry, whatever speakers you have, it will improve the sound. If you got already have a decent dac, then yes, maybe looking for better speakers would be the option.

[@ford1546]

@@dagnisnierlins188 Speakers do more on the sound than many people think. It's not just about going and buying expensive speakers from a reputable brand and believing that you are getting good and proper sound. Far too many times i have seen expensive speakers that give you little and are built cheaply inside. And does not have the best sound.

[@laika25]

The concept of a "decent power chord" will spin in my head until you, enlightened guru Paul, kindly do a video about it. 🤔😉 Leo, from Madrid, Spain

[@ewoutbuhler5217]

Don't ask for the snakeoil, anything better that 13AWG powercord is more than sufficient for audio.

[@bassedtaz]

How about (because my options are limited) out of pc (laptop, W10) via hdmi, into a TV then out via optical to amp. Have I converted just once, at the end, in the amp? Its not ideal I know, relying on a tv in an audio rig, any info would be much appreciated. I can stream usb via interfaces, but those aren't ideal for other logistical reasons.

[@beornthebear.8220]

I had a pretty good DAC in one of my PCs, and I bought a USB external DAC. The problem was I was getting really bad jitter with the external DAC, even when turning off nearly all the PCs OS services. I went back to using the internal DAC. The sound on the PC was better then my earlier PC, but I couldn't stop the horrible jitter using the external DAC. I got sick of it and got a large iMac. I'm like you in that I don't even want to hear music unless I'm seriously listening to it or practicing to it on bass or guitar through headphones, using the pedal board through USB for the sound. I also have a pair of JBL LSR308s for external listening, or mastering using my small mixing board. I haven't run the external DAC through the iMac yet. I haven't noticed any jitter with the new setup.

[@ewoutbuhler5217]

jitter is timing errors in the digital domain. What do you actually hear? In any case, if you have issues ussing an external DAC, the setup/setting must me faulty. I suggest using an external USB.

[@xyanide1986]

Not sure what you bought. USB-powered DACs can only get so clean because of all the crap on the 5V USB lines. If the motherboard and psu arent excellent, it will not be solved. That's not related to jitter timing errors, it's noise. If you get an external usb DAC with its own power supply it should fix things.

[@deadline7610]

Nicely Done. As an iMac user myself how did you go from using the headphone out to suggesting SPDIF. Where is the iMac hiding a SPDIF. Isn't the iMac usb out and changing the setting on your Audio Midi setup bypassing the internal dac ? Thanks

[@tdave1234]

iMacs ver 2014 and earlier had an optical output shared w/ the headphone jack. It was removed on 2017 and later. I miss that connection.

[@deadline7610]

@@tdave1234 Thank you. I didn't know that and I'm running one of those older iMacs. Any chance this mini optical output will have a noticeable audio difference compared to the usb output I'm currently using with my dac ? I can't check myself since my dac only has a usb input. I just assumed using the usb output from the iMac and changing the Audio Midi setting so it saw my new dac was bypassing the internal dac. Was that wrong ?

[@tdave1234]

@@deadline7610 USB should be fine. I liked the optical since it didn't tie up a USB port or have the audio competing for bandwidth with a pile of external drives. I use USB to a Schiit DAC on my Air and I'm happy with that. Amazon music in ultra HD and exclusive mode sounds pretty good to my (oldish) ears.

[@deadline7610]

@@tdave1234 Thanks. I was looking at 2 of the schiit dacs but didn't like the micro usb connectors as my only option. I guess now I'll be spoiled with choice :) Any chance you found a way to eq music with your mac using Amazon music HD ?

[@tdave1234]

@@deadline7610 just the tone controls on the amps. Schiit Loki/Lokius is what I would look into for EQ.

[@imkow]

PCs usually have Realtek HDAudio codec chip as DAC... it's kinda good now after 20 years of evolution... I doubt the standalone DACs have built-in better chips..

[@imkow]

@Douglas Blake I agree with you on that an exclusive mode is needed in order to get better sound quality.. I also find out that the Foobar2000 player, a geeky HiFi audio player on Windows can turn on the the exclusive output devices by going through menus: Configure -> Playback -> Output -> Device, then change it to "RealTek HDA exclusive" or "RealTek Digital Output exclusive"... so, the problem is likely solvable

[@imkow]

@Douglas Blake Also, on geeky video players like MPC-HC or MPC-BE.. There is an enclusive mode on MPC-HC to be enable by Options -> Internal Filters-> Audio Renderers -> SaneAR Audio Renderer Enabled -> checkbox Enclusive Mode On MPC-BE it goes Options -> Audio -> Audio Renderer -> MPC Audio renderer -> WASAPI mode -> exclusive. So the media players I use all seem have options to play back audio exclusively..

[@twntwrs]

I compared a i5-6500 desktop hooked up to an external DAC by USB to it connected directly to the receiver by RCA plugged into the 3.5 mm stereo out of the computer. No audible difference. I think the external DAC can now safely be relegated to the ranks of speaker cable mythology.

[@johnlane2395]

My new computer automatically switches the internal DAC off, and uses my SCHIIT Jotunheim2 DAC, I now have a balanced amp for my Tannoy Gold 8s, never have I owned a better system, thanks for the Noise Harvester, it makes a lot of difference in a house with 100-year-old wires, love your channel.

[@richardt3371]

"Courtesy" power cords - and the rationale behind them - drive me potty. 1. In the UK (not sure about the US) you can't legally sell a mains-powered device without a power cord, so it's not a courtesy but a legal requirement. And 2. If you don't expect people to use them because you view them as crap .... include a decent power cord!! It's then up to the buyer if they want to go even higher up the nonsense-tree and invest in an expensive placebo power cord, but don't include something that you as the manufacturer think isn't good enough in the first place! Honestly, outside of the audiophile world, when would you ever - ever! - consider replacing a supplied power cable with a "better" one?

[@robertthurston6858]

Maybe when a small animal chewed through it.

[@jdlech]

For the little 20 to 40 watt component, never. But when you have an amperage hungry monster 500+ watt amp (or three), you'll probably want a heavy duty power cord and maybe even double up on the Romex cable in the walls too. No point heating your house through the walls.

[@googoo-gjoob]

in the U.S. with our abundance of options, people have preferences. personally, i prefer Cardas cables. many like Audioquest. so, we prefer less expensive cables to start, or non at all. dont supply me with a 'better' cable the company likes...and raise the price of the product accordingly when im just going to buy another.

[@Snook_]

@@googoo-gjoob Rubbish, the company should supply the cable that makes their equipment sound good enough/to a standard they accept. The irony is every time Paul talks about his own systems at home, hes always using basic consumer shit. It really shows you that all this extra billions of $ to spend on your audio setup is only worth a few % on the top in terms of how much better it is. MASSIVE diminishing returns when the owner of a company uses basic shit at home. As they say, follow the money and where/how its spent

[@googoo-gjoob]

@@Snook_ horse hockey... i *dont want* their opinion of which cable works best. imagine a car dealer charging you for an option you dont want and wont use. if you had BHK pre, BHK650, DirectStream dac & Infinity IRS V at the office (3 miles from your home), would you have a killer sound system at home? in case you dont know, he does have a pretty nice theater room.

[@razzman2987]

I read on a forum u have to switch off youre Pc sound in youre bios if u use a external dac for less pollution..

[@RAY_FILET]

I'm running the Klipsch Fives, via USB, and I get the feeling that the laptop is still influencing the sound somehow. I tried it on another laptop and that one seemed to be a bit different when compared. What could be happening ?? I just want to use the dac in the speakers. Please help.

[@AllboroLCD]

What grinds my gears is lack of a "courtesy DAC" inside new TV's!! Seriously??? We cant even get a basic Toslink output anymore!?!?!

[@joebeckham8352]

An optical output doesn’t need a dac, it’s digital, they didn’t give you a digital audio output because it probably has ARC through one of the hdmi inputs. But most new TVs give you both of those and a “courtesy DAC” via analog 1/8” output, sometimes labeled headphone.

[@AllboroLCD]

@@joebeckham8352 I just saw a TV the other day with ZERO audio out options, 2 HDMI & composite in that was it. I mentioned Toslink because its at least an audio output though still digital.

[@VideoArchiveGuy]

@@AllboroLCD Whatever allows them to save $5.

[@AllboroLCD]

@@VideoArchiveGuy H8 that mindset where EVERYTHING is an extra! I even saw a TV with no hard buttons on it! Remote needed for operation! UGH!

[@gotham61]

@@AllboroLCD One of the HDMIs will almost certainly have ARC (audio return channel) capability, which how most people hook them up these days.

[@georgeradulescu7175]

I certainly appreciate Paul's engineering knowledge and advice and automatically like all these videos, but the complimentary power cable comment just rubs me the wrong way, because that's just marketing meant to separate a fool from his money. You can't claim you make some of the best pieces of audio gear if they can be improved by the wire that goes to the outlet, but can't say which cable is best or have data that backs up your claim. It's all just nebulous talk about how your $90,000 system is undoubtedly good, but it could always be just a little better. There is no end goal because then you can't take advantage of insecure and obsessed people.

[@Harald_Reindl]

I can't appreciate engineering which is too dumb build proper power supplies and call the product high-end

[@VideoArchiveGuy]

Ah, yet another person who categorically states something as true but has never actually listened themselves. Truly sad.

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@VideoArchiveGuy sad is the missing eduction of you audiofools to know what simply don't need to be tried

[@VideoArchiveGuy]

Ooooh, time for name calling! 🤣

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@VideoArchiveGuy well deserved

[@juliocesarpereira4325]

Yes music is also a distraction for me too. Either I stop and listen to it or turn it off. As for pc internal DAC, I bought a very good audio card for my desktop pc.

[@ewoutbuhler5217]

And it will be a better audio card outside your PC the biggest source of noise... :)

[@twntwrs]

@@ewoutbuhler5217 I compared a i5-6500 desktop hooked up to an "audiophile" external DAC by USB to it connected directly to the receiver by RCA plugged into the 3.5mm stereo out of the computer. No audible difference. I think the external DAC can now safely be relegated to the ranks of speaker cable mythology.

[@bmccollneb1]

Yes, I use the S/PDIF port on my PC with an optical cable to my AVR S/PDIF. It works great. I assume u could connect the PC with HDMI to the AVR but haven't tried.

[@stephensams709]

I use JRiver Media Center and that provides a direct path through my PC. I use the HDMI interface with an Audioquest Vodka cable to my NAD M51 DAC. I prefer the sound of HDMI to anything else I've heard and I'm not sure why more DAC's don't include them as an option. I used an optical cable for while and I found out that the cables that use real glass fiber sound the best or at least better than the clear ones. Anyway, just my two cents : )

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@stephensams709 optical cables can't sound by definition of you poor soul

[@ewoutbuhler5217]

@@Harald_Reindl I agree, it's rather digital. It works or it does not work. a zero is a zero, a one is a one, glass or plastic fibre. The thing with real glass fibre is that the optic performance is better so the maximum range/length of the cable is (much) greater. If the range is exceeded and the zero's and ones do not reach the DAC anymore, audio quality will not be bad, audio will be gone.

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@ewoutbuhler5217 there is nothing like a "maximum range/length" - either your digital connection works or it don't - if it don't you hear it without any doubt - in case of analog likely you don't because it degrades slowly

[@ewoutbuhler5217]

@@Harald_Reindl agree, the max length is about the fibre optic cable. If it's too long, the light simply does not reach the receiving end.

[@Silgalias]

So I have a PC I put together at the start of the pandemic, just before things got really expensive and use it to stream music via Tidal. However I find with the amp turned up and nothing playing I hear PC sounds through my speakers. Not just fan noise but the odd 'fax machine' sounds too. The motherboard is a MSI Mag X570 tomahawk with a Ryzen 3700 and a 5700xt graphics card. It is PCIE 4 and I have a Corsair 600 m.2 ssd. All this is connected to my hi-fi system which consists of a Gustard X16/H16 stack with a Willsenton R8 KT88 valve amp and a pair of Triangle Borea BR03 speakers. I have the amp connected directly to the Gustard X16 DAC on channel 1 but also have it connected via the Preamp in to the H16's Preamp out. I did this to take advantage of the Gustards balanced XLR connections to try and reduce the noise, which it does, mostly. I do still hear noise especially if my son is playing a heavy load game like Escape from Tarkov. I have tried using different USB outputs on the PC both A and C but with no difference. I have even tried plugins like the ifi silencer to break ground loops but they had no effect and were returned. I have tried a high quality usb b to C with little magnet collars to reduce noise. Also no effect. What can I do to be rid of PC noise in my system please? Should I just use a dedicated streamer instead of PC? Thanks

[@Harald_Reindl]

Well, my Linux system on my 10 years 365/24 computer has a 20 dollar external soundcard with a optical output and don't make any the slightest noise no matter how much the volume of the AVR is turned up

[@Harald_Reindl]

@Douglas Blake also grounding loops are no longer a topic with optical digital connections - it isolates the PC and all what could make noise on the way

[@Harald_Reindl]

@Douglas Blake ground loops can't hapüpen when your USB soundcard has a digital optical outout

[@wwolny]

Better question is: How to connect computer to external DAC? HDMI? S/PDIF? Coaxial? Which is better and why?

[@andremaia2730]

Paul, you probably have a B&W MM1, which has a dac built in and will sound better if you plug it via usb! Proud to give an advice to the master 😂

[@endrizo]

usual basic easy pc to tv to receiver setup is pc to tv by hdmi cable then from tv to receiver use optical cable. works just fine.

[@sanj5681]

I can confirm this setup works for me , when I was using spidif from computer I was getting frequent dropouts and the only way to stop this is to use the method above.

[@ewoutbuhler5217]

@@sanj5681 or use optical S/P-dif, aka Toslink. Dropouts were probably caused by groundloops because of the lack of electrical isolation between PC and audio.

[@ford1546]

Burr Brown dac. is no expensive dac! Dac. ic chip, requires to have good quality parts in the analog output circuit. Many times in cheap equipment then you have decent dac ic. but bad and cheap parts in the analog circuit, or absolutely everything inside an ic. circuit Two identical dac. ic chip from 2 different factories can have quite a big difference in sound. The best is to have a sepparat box with dac. Then you avoid noise from the other components. Sepparat dac tend to be built better than the integrated dac. is.

[@googoo-gjoob]

Burr Brown is tons better than the included dac. at least in my last 3 macs

[@ford1546]

@@googoo-gjoob If you sound chipp sitting on a motherboard in your computer then a sepparat DAC. Is almost always better. Here it is the end result out of your speakers that counts. I would rather have a cheap DAC. on good speakers than expensive and good DAC. on cheap speakers. speakers do more on the sound than a DAC. do. My cheap bluetooth card from ebay uses a sepparat Burr Brown dac ic

[@ford1546]

@@googoo-gjoob How many times better is hard to say. it is not 10 times better. And DAC. may have good sound to one music system but not so good to another. Sound out of a motherboard is not the best but not the worst either.

[@twntwrs]

I compared a i5-6500 desktop hooked up to an external "audiophile" DAC by USB to it connected directly to the receiver by RCA plugged into the 3.5mm stereo out of the computer. No noticeable difference. I think the external DAC can now safely be relegated to the ranks of speaker cable mythology.

[@ford1546]

@@twntwrs If you do not hear a difference between the built-in sound card in your computer and a separate DAC. then the hearing is poor or the speakers are too poor! I have 2 DACs. I can hear a good difference between them through headphones!! I also have 2 dac. which uses the same DAC IC. and the difference between the 2 is not that big what kind of DAC. do you have?

[@RanTausi]

And what happened if you don't have spidif in your PC ? not every PC Mother Board has a optical out , in my case I have Topping E30 DAC connected to my PC via USB and the DAC output feeds the Tube preamp in my case Fosi tube P1. a great combination

[@RanTausi]

@Douglas Blake Yes I did it using foobar. But what is the case if I am listening to Spotify or KZbin?

[@KenTeel]

@Douglas Blake On my Windows 10 PC, here is the path to get to those check boxes (for anyone who doesn't know.) 1.- Lower corner of screen, click on speaker icon, with the right mouse button. 2.- Click on "Open Volume Mixer. 3.- Under "Devices" it has a little picture of a speaker, click on that little speaker picture. 4.- When pop up window appears, click on "Advanced" folder. 5.- Look at the middle of the pop up box, and you'll see the check boxes for allowing Exclusive Mode. Click both boxes. (If you're interested in the bit and sample rate, you'll see them listed here, as options, also.) Then make sure that the software that you are using is set up for Exclusive use.

[@KenTeel]

@Douglas Blake Yes, but you provided some really good information. Thank you for that. I learned a bit from your's and other's posts, here. Good stuff. I've recorded with Windows (Sonar Home Studio and Cakewalk), only, and never had to get into the weeds on this kind of driver stuff. It's always worked, and sounded pretty decent to me. Admittedly, my bar is lower than a true audiophile's, in terms of sound quality. Audiophiles have the gold standard. I'd place mine on the stainless steel level... hee hee.

[@KenTeel]

@Douglas Blake Yes, I can tell that you like to helpful to other audio enthusiasts. Your post is a testament to that fact. I'd be curious as to what you have to say, so, post a link, and I'll check it out. For fun, here is one of my tunes that I recorded in my living room. This is recording on the cheap. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHuxc2x_pdhsgZI

[@KenTeel]

@Douglas Blake Sorry to hear of your frustration with posting well thought out text, only to have it vanish. I can tell that you like to help, and having that help thwarted, I can imagine, is frustrating. FaceBook might be a better bet for getting your message across. If you post the info there, then put a link to it here, it might work? Thanks for listening to Mom's Song. that particular recording was done with no EQ on the voice, and no mastering. Actually, the entire CD, Handmade Music, I just did because I was sending out songs to wineries, trying to get gigs, and I thought that I'd just put the songs that I sent to them on a disc, with no post production on the mixes. I've had friends scratch their heads and say "why the heck would you do that?" My best answer was that there was sale going on with the CD manufacturer, and I wanted to get in on their pricing, so I just put the songs together, in a hurry and had it pressed. With decent speakers or headphones, I think that the mixes stand up OK. Also, most people have tone controls or EQ, so they can "dial in" their preference for bass, treble, etc. It would be interesting to hear these mixes on a truly audiophile system (maybe I'll go to a store that sells equipment and ask them to give it a spin.) My later stuff I experimented with Cloud Bounce, automated mastering. I think that the auto mastering is pretty good. If you'd like me to drop a home burned copy of my CD in the mail (I can send these out very cheaply), for free, just send me a mailing address to my email address [e-mail] and I'll drop one in the mail. If you're curious about the auto (computer) mastered sound here's a link to one of my songs that went through that process. Also, I'd be curious to see your website. Send me a link if you can. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKOVknmAq7Flj6s

[@robertlakay88]

Paul did you know Ricky the dragon Steamboat won Nature Boy Ric Flair for the NWA world heavyweight championship in Chi-town back in 1989?

[@transmaster]

That is unless you have a high end gaming mother board they have an excellent sound system. or a ASUS Zonar Essence sound card. But setup your PC to go through the WASAPI. This bypasses the PC’s on board audio system and delivers the direct digital signal to your high end sound card or external DAC.

[@BoredSilly666]

Kernel Streaming is even better than WASAPI

[@BoredSilly666]

@Douglas Blake Audirvana have just introduced it into their new Studio software fully explaining why it is better and why theyve chosen it. Im sure Audirvana, as well as me and most of Audirvana users would beg to differ.

[@BoredSilly666]

I was talking about using Kernel Streaming mode not ASIO by the way

[@BoredSilly666]

@Douglas Blake I use all 3 currently in Audirvana Studio and can change between any of them in seconds and then A + B the same tracks. Implemented properly Kernel bypasses more of the internal workings of a a pc resulting in better sound. Sounds like you tried it and it wasnt working properly, so how can you honestly comment? Go read the new implentations in Audirvana and get back to me.

[@BoredSilly666]

@Douglas Blake Sounds like your behind with things and not realised it can now be done properly with no issues

[@Inflame5]

You like B&W speakers? You said you don't like them. I'm 🤔 confused...

[@Dannn524]

He also said he’s listening to it on a crappy dac, so the system isn’t for critical listening

[@nicholasmorrill4711]

How about if you have a sound card fitted on the computer & the spidif comes from that?

[@nicholasmorrill4711]

@Douglas Blake I am finding that it is USB that is not so good,particularly when from the computer when as Paul says (in a previous video that there is a lot of interference about in there). It is the same with my android tv box,the USB sounds course & crude by comparison.I think I have answered my own question it has just dawned on me as I have a separate dac the sound card one in my computer is really wasted. Do computers have a spidif without the expensive sound card? It has all got pretty complicated.Anyway sorry if I have confused you 🙂

[@nicholasmorrill4711]

@Douglas Blake I can't find the video that talks about interference within your computer but this one that talks about the short comings of usb cables illustrates the point. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIm5ZmRpiqhrg9U Clearly you are wrong (at least according to Paul McGowen) & this is born out in practice because the sound quality coming from my computer via usb cable to my DAC (a very good one by the way) is not matched by the spidif cable that having a separate sound card within my computer allows me to have.......I don't use windows media player having a separate cd transport to my dac which enables me to play cd's in top quality.I only use my computer for youtube.I hope this helps 🙂

[@nicholasmorrill4711]

@Douglas Blake Here in the UK my modem (presuming that means router) does not have usb connections & your advice runs counter to Paul McGowen's knowledge.Besides with such a setup I would'nt be able to watch the lovely log fire available on youtube & would have to bin my entire CD collection & spend a fortune on downloads (if they were available for the type of music I like which is not the current fashionable drivel). I think I'll give it a miss for now mate.

[@googoo-gjoob]

i have a mid 2012 MacBook Pro. it doesnt have a spdif port. what do i do?

[@VideoArchiveGuy]

Use a USB DAC like the AudioQuest Dragonfly.

[@googoo-gjoob]

@@VideoArchiveGuy , please and thank you

[@Why_is_gamora]

my dac has color indicators for different music format. when i use usb audio player pro only i can get bit perfect. some one please suggest similar app for windows. thanks

[@danilorainone406]

amp/speaker from my asus little guy laptop,,a 1/8 stereo plug for ext speaker/headphones gets plugged into LINE IN on a 40 yr old panasonic unit,driving 6 speakers, producing a dippy ten wpc,,sound off you tube music vids,old vinyl classical stacks and guitar,,,,the sound is concerthall quality

[@jdlech]

I've worked with two different people who absolutely must have some kind of noise in the background. Turns out, they both hated their own thoughts. They HAD to be distracted during their every waking moment or they would drive themselves insane.

[@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285]

Really? I wonder how you know that. Is that something they said to you? That's fascinating.

[@jdlech]

@@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285 Yes. It's not easy to talk to them about it because it can so easily sound like you're judging/criticizing. But if you can get around that, people tend to open up. That's what they both said. Different words, of course. But essentially, both couldn't stand their own thoughts. So they continuously distracted themselves. Neither could stand silence for more than 10 minutes.

[@ericmc6482]

PC SMPS Y capacitors and internal leakages cause earth noise. USB Isolator eliminates earth currents caused noise, highly recommended/mandatory.

[@tchavdarsimeonov8542]

Hi the best way to listen Hi Res audio(SACD,DVD-A.DSD.DSF,FLAC...)is to install foobar with all the pluggins nessessaire(available on foobar website)plus installing ASIO,once you did this you''ll never will listen other type of source files or players.

[@radimvavrecka3481]

Hi, is it just me or Paul said he's using B&W and like the sound?!?

[@gotham61]

That surprised me too. I thought he hated B&W. Why do I think he meant to say KEF LS50s? B&W doesn't make a lot of powered speakers, other than the $4k Formation Duo.

[@KenTeel]

Music as a distraction... now there's a subject. The ultimate test is to try to do your income tax with your music playing. If you can do that more power to you. This is an interesting subject, because while doing simpler tasks, or tasks that don't involve something that is impending, music, for me, works fine, in the background. But when a lot of concentration is needed, and particularly when something is of a critical nature, music can be a distraction and even annoying (Shut that thing off !) I suspect that this is exaggerated with musicians, as sound is a big part of what we focus on, to begin with. So, music, to us, may occupy a bigger part of our concentration, even when we are not trying to do that. We may be particularly sensitive to "noises" in the background. Thanks for the info on the outputs of computers, Paul. That's interesting about bypassing the sound card (or chip on motherboard, more likely.) On an unrelated subject, I've been pondering the frustration of mixing songs with different studio monitors. They can sound so different from each other. And, as Paul has pointed out, producing electronics is a lot easier to get a flat, good response out of than doing that with speaker designs. So, I'm kind of arriving at the conclusion, that for the vast majority of listeners (who are not audiophiles) the tone controls on their systems will compensate for whatever short comings they might encounter in my mixes (due to different electronics/monitors, personal taste, differences.) Tone controls won't make up for better equipment, but they can do quite a bit, with a reasonable system. I suspect that most consumer level systems have tone controls for this very reason. Records, CDs, tapes, etc. come with a variety of mixes. Tone controls help the listener dial in his preference for frequencies. For audiophiles, the gold standard, I suspect, is to not have to work with tone controls, but have the music so well produced, and the listening systems so accurate to this production, that fooling around with tone controls is unnecessary.

[@Harald_Reindl]

I can 12 hours without a break develop and debug software with music running all the time - without music I am frustrated after 1 hour - works for 20 years now and I can even tell you to what songs I developed specific software 15 years ago

[@KenTeel]

@@Harald_Reindl Wow ! Well everyone is different. That is interesting.

[@KenTeel]

@@Harald_Reindl Harald, you got my curiosity, about what style of music you listen to, while you're programming. Also, is your concentration equal with all styles of music (that is, can you concentrate equally well with hip-hop or classical, or rock , or country, or jazz, etc.)? Also, I wonder if you're a musician? I wonder if the pull from concentration, toward music, is greater with musicians? I don't know Paul's history, but he has a music keyboard in the back of one of his videos, so I assume that he's a musician.

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@KenTeel no matter what, currentyl 75000 tracks in 43 genres and yes i am singer in my free time (karaoke on a possible high level)

[@KenTeel]

@@Harald_Reindl You sing Karaoke (along with everyone else in the bar), but don't play an instrument? OK. You're not involved in writing music, playing an instrument, or recording your own compositions (or even covers.) So, you're a non musician. You're comming from a different perspective than a musician is, then. (If you could analyze the music, using music theory, then you'd be closer to what a musician hears. Your listening is done on a general level, not hearing and thinking about things like chord progressions, key changes, modes, scales, song structure, time signatures, etc.) That's interesting that you listen to music from 43 genres. Have you listened to music from all 43 of these categories when you're programming? Or is there one or two categories that you like to work by?

[@TheLukemcdaniel]

Nowadays, most motherboards, at least mid-range up, there's not much of an issue. Unless, you have something causing a ground loop. I'm pretty sure my ups was. I wasn't going to get rid of that(we have way too many brownouts), so I just got an fx-audio dac x6(first one not the mini or v2) which was great for headphones, and an smsl for a pair of speakers. Hooking the dac up via usb or optical eliminated the ground loop issue. But I had to stick with usb, as the optical wouldn't initialize until too late in the boot. so I stuck with usb.

[@MykeHawke-r9r]

Muchas Gracias!

[@EraYaN]

It hasn’t been true for at least five years that it is the cheapest they can find, for sure not on the above-bargain-bin motherboard. They essentially all use the same 1 level below flagship realtek audio codec, which if given decent filters is quite capable. The days of wild noise and pops on you rear audio outputs are long gone thankfully on any decent mid-range to high-end board.

[@Harald_Reindl]

you don't do DAC on the PC side - period! Analog connections only making troubles compared to optical digital - no matter how highend you are think your motherboard is - that starts with galvanic separation

[@twntwrs]

I compared a i5-6500 desktop hooked up to an external "audiophile" DAC by USB to it connected directly to the receiver by RCA plugged into the 3.5mm stereo out of the computer. No audible difference. I think the external DAC can now safely be relegated to the ranks of speaker cable mythology.

[@edgar9651]

I wonder if with >99.9% of the speakers which are connected to computers the listener would hear any difference if the DAC would be 10 times as good. I guess not.

[@ThinkingBetter]

Those build-in computer speakers are always useless for any music listening, but what do makes some sense is to provide a reasonable audio quality on the headphone output. Especially on a laptop, I really hate to have to carry my DAC with me. It's about time for laptop makers to make audiophile headphone outputs.

[@athathsonty2925]

@@ThinkingBetter at Audiophile Prices? No Laptop will get sold.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@athathsonty2925 No, it’s very possible at actual cost with no snake oil margin to keep the price of the laptop almost the same. It doesn’t take much money to make an audiophile DAC inside a laptop but it takes some solid passionate audiophile engineering. With todays tech you can easily make an awesome DAC for less than US$20 on the BOM in a laptop. That’s many times more than what is spent in the typical laptop on the audio BOM. Will it beat the best of external DACs? Probably not, but it might easily beat what we called audiophile DACs a few years ago. I’m hopeful that some day I can just connect my Sundara or even my Stax headphones to my laptop directly, but perhaps I’ll be dreaming for a long time as computer makers seem not to care spending a few Dollars on this.

[@edgar9651]

@@ThinkingBetter Obviously computer speakers are bad. But I had "normal" speakers in mind which many people have at home. Think about speakers for a couple of hundred dollars. Not bad, but far away from really good. And for those "normal" speakers will a better DAC make a difference? I have my doubts.

[@edgar9651]

@@ThinkingBetter What do you mean with "at actual cost with no snake oil margin"? Do you expect that companies invest money, pay for all the parts in stock and in the notebooks and they are not allowed to make any money with that? Next thing maybe ask Paul if you can buy their devices for the cost price or maybe 20$ more.

[@jimshaw899]

Most laptop PCs do not have a SP/DIF output. Most Apple laptops don't have SP/DIF either. Yeah, use USB to an outboard DAC. I use an inexpensive Schiit Modi3 to do coax from my DVD/CD deck AND Toslink from my TV, AND USB from an iPad for streaming. It has an input selector. The Modi3 gets mostly rave reviews, and it's $99 + Fgt. Potentially save the $1k - 3K DACs for the guys who run McIntosh or better and think they can hear better than you.

[@L.Scott_Music]

It's certainly good advice to use the SPDIF to get out to the amp but I would note that high quality gaming motherboards have pretty darn good audio systems that are isolated from the motherboard (sometimes with actual metal shielding) because serious games actually care about audio quality. I still wouldn't say this is audiophile quality, no no. But it more than qualified for the best MP3. I give it upper mid consumer quality level.

[@realitykicksin8755]

SPDIF is not suitable for Hi-Res audio resolution. Usually 16bits and up to 48Khz. Even iTunes performs better than that output.

[@alphaniner3770]

Indeed, these gaming DACs are certainly not courtesy-DACs, they sound great for games, but they are indeed usually not designed with audiophile use in mind. I got a nice headphone DAC- amp connected to my computer - that works quite well.

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@realitykicksin8755 and since you are a bat you can hear above 20khz - laughable - your hires shit is just a different mix / mastering for a lot of money

[@twntwrs]

I compared a i5-6500 desktop hooked up to an external "audiophile" DAC by USB to it connected directly to the receiver by RCA plugged into the 3.5mm stereo out of the computer. No audible difference. I think the external DAC can now safely be relegated to the ranks of speaker cable mythology.

[@beamer.electronics]

Superb music that you normally enjoy can be a nuisance! There are a couple of annoyances going on here - when attempting to do something else: Firstly, you're annoyed that you can't really concentrate (as you normally do) on that music. Secondly, you're possibly very near your limit doing what you're attempting to do. The frustration starts to build, and eventually, you take that out on your remote control - by turning that bloody music OFF! Well, that's how I work anyway ;)

[@searchiemusic]

thought this said 'blessing' at first lmfao

[@necrodh]

the old realtek 24 bit of my lenovo laptop sounds better than akm and sabre dacs to my ears

[@bluesfish55m51]

Sorry Paul, I gotta call you out on this one. I drop 8 large on one of your amps and you give me a throw-away power cord? That’s like a new Ferrari coming with 4ply tires off a Beatle. WTH man!

[@jeffwalther]

My webcam is glitchy on USB. You think I will get high end audio out of my USB port? Hah hah!

[@chefsteve8381]

Usb to ifi zen dac done....

[@josephsequeira8020]

What about a dedicated soundcard?

[@sudd3660]

or a dac, anything with a digital input bypass pc dac

[@nissimtrifonov5314]

A dedicated, external DAC is considered (for valid reasons) better than a "traditional" sound card that goes into a slot on the motherboard.

[@philipw7058]

Where is there a digital output spdif on a computer 🖥🤷‍♂️

[@imkow]

usually there is a 4-pin connector on the motherboard.that you can hook a port panel to the back of the PC chassis. or it's the same 4pin connector you hook your earphone connector onto the front panel of your PC case and change the BIOS setting from HDAudio for earphones to SPDIF .

[@imkow]

Most motherboards do have this "spdif out" feature and the 4-pin connector(actually a 4-1=3pin connector with 4pin's form factor) which exsit on motherboards of the lowest end like H61 and H310.. if you don't know how to cut and modify a RCA cable for the 3pins, you gonna need to buy a "spdif out daughter card" then hook it up to the 3-pin, then connect the card with a normal spdif RCA cable...

[@petersplat6164]

He lost me when he expressed his belief that the power cords that come stock with my gear should be replaced with some fancy audiophile crap that comes in a fancy box.

[@allansh828]

some motherboards have actually decent DAC nowadays

[@stug77]

Decent compared to motherboard audio in the past. Most modern phones and almost all external DACs will measure better because of the extremely high noise levels inside a desktop PC case. In addition, Paul's "why are DACs so big" episode explains that dedicated input and output stages for the core DAC chip are hugely important (I would argue *more* important usually than chip choice) in making a good sounding DAC. Motherboards are using just the core chip in most cases.

[@edgar9651]

I guess in Paul's opinion any DAC which cost not at least 100USD (or something like that) is crap.

[@jacksonville4932]

@@edgar9651 100$ for a dac is not a lot anyway. Just work and get something nice instead of whining

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

The DAC in my motherboard is WAY better than the DAC in my receiver.

[@KenTeel]

@@jacksonville4932 Why would you say that Edgar is whining? He simply made a statement about cost and perception.

[@tdevosodense]

Buy a motherboard with digital out, Or usb witH digital out 👍

[@ThinkingBetter]

Ages ago, it was unimaginable that a smart phone could make professional photos and video. Nowadays latest generation smart phones can beat cinema cameras from just a few years ago thanks to the image processing part of the System On Chips being vastly improved together with camera sensor improvements. So, is the same happening with the DAC inside your device? Yes actually it is same trend. Computer audio has improved massively over the last decades and especially with high integration silicon ruling now also in latest generation computers, there is really no reason for a computer or mobile device DAC incl. overall digital audio architecture to be compromised. Engineering teams at the major SOC makers are putting a lot of effort into making next generation sound better. It's becoming trivial to run a PCM stream at 384kHz 32 bits on the silicon side and technically, there is no reason why the "DAC chip" itself should be inferior to dedicated external DACs. And of course these companies are smart enough to know that you can't make a better DAC without also improving the analog output stage. So do I disagree with Paul? No, I don't. It just means the gap is shrinking and personally I keep using external DACs to everything I listen to. And one trend that has helped boost DAC sales is that modern smart phones have stopped including an analog output. Reality is that the era of compressed poor quality MP3 music is coming to an end and that is great for the future of our business. More young people start realizing sound quality matters.

[@BoredSilly666]

I disagree, your simply applying this Logic to your own experiences. Try buying a Chord Qutest DAC for instance, plug it into your pc/laptop and try tell me you cant hear a difference. Have you tried many external DAC's?

[@joshua43214]

Umm, no. most of what you say is false. Phone cameras are inferior to cinema cameras from the 50's. You have fallen entirely into the "but software..." fallacy. No amount of software will make the sensor bigger, the sensor more sensitive, the lens longer, etc. Same goes for DACs.

[@ericmc6482]

Good luck getting unbalanced audio from your PC to your hifi without earth loop/leakage currents causing all manner of 'machine noises'.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@BoredSilly666 I have many external DACs and very rarely use internal ones but over the years the gap has become much less and some PCs do better than others. I also said I don’t disagree with Paul.

[@BoredSilly666]

@@ThinkingBetter Name a couple?

[@MarioPetrinovich]

Ha, ha, no way that I can listen to music doing something else, too. I was a train driver. If music would play in my cabin I would completely forget where I am and what I am doing. So, please, conductor, turn this thing off if you want to stay alive. But, I don't have to tell him, after only few minutes he realizes it by himself, when he sees the glare in my eyes, :) .

[@PieterBreda]

I have an audioquest dragonfly on my pc. A world of difference

[@GK-rw2op]

Same here ! Love it

[@Harald_Reindl]

bypass every DAC in the chain because room-eq would convert the signal back to digital anyways - optical digital connections exist

[@Telemed911]

Apple dominates markets for folks in engineering and science, in part, because it has always been offered with an educational discount inlike Microsoft Windows. The so-called "convenience" power cords and internal DACs are a contrivance of high end hifi marketing to upsell customers. Also - whether music consititues background or object fixation is a consequence of personaility type and interest - it is not generalizable to all consumers, as everything on the internet seems to be classified these days.

[@KenTeel]

Yes, Apple went after education market, early in their existance. They really worked that market. However, in the places, where I've worked (which included being around some engineering departments) there were plenty of PCs around. It would be interesting to see some accurate numbers on how many PC vs Apple in the engineering/science field, there actually are, respectively. PCs have been less proprietary in a few ways, making Apple less flexible (and also more expensive) due to their interest in proprietary stuff. Professional audio has been dominated by Apple, but prosumer level audio (home studios) have, probably, more PCs, simply because of the cost factor associated with Apple. Microsoft has copied Apple's GUI, and done quite a reasonable job of it, to the point where paying extra for an Apple, may not be justifiable commonly, for many musicians. In addition, no listener can tell the difference, whether or not one recorded a song on an Apple or a PC. I would guess that when you get right down to it, the number of Apples vs PC gets into very specific segments of markets, for each one, dominating. One thing is for sure, there is a prestige factor with owning and using an Apple (Precisely what Steve Jobs wanted.) This said, if bragging rights (ego gratification through simple ownership) for what you own aren't important, a lower cost PC, with lots of functionality may be appealing. Audio certainly has no shortage of PC users. We'll see how this plays out in the future.

[@meljove7187]

Using an external DAC to substitute the DAC on a computer or smartphone is definitely an improvement. However,, the best DAC in the world will not eliminate the electrical, mechanical and digital noise associated with computers and smartfphones. A better alternative is to use a DAC/Audio Streamer, preferably hardwired to the computer's internet router.

[@meljove7187]

@@mrmaunz42 I believe I said, "better" alternative. Even external DACs and one's ears have deficiencies.

[@EitriBrokkr]

How do you feel about your political party favoring internment camps?

[@robertthurston6858]

I guess it depends what they are in the internment camp for ?

[@EitriBrokkr]

@@robertthurston6858 so your answer is yes...you are the problem

[@GoodBaleadaMusic]

I only listen to rap music for enjoyment. But if I'm doing anything else that requires concentration or my favorite daydreaming; then classical or jazz, classical is better because it has insane buildups and changes of a clear emotion that when you are thinking subliminally it sort of guides you like a river bank.