C200: Workflow & Choosing a Cinema Camera

Links to gear below. If you found this review helpful and are planning to buy any of the gear we discussed, please consider using one of our links below which will help fund our ongoing efforts to make high quality filmmaking gear reviews.
In this episode our special guest is Jacob Fenn, a filmmaker and colorist. We discuss workflow and how your workflow can help you choose a cinema camera like the Canon C200, the Blackmagic Design Ursa Mini Pro, or the Sony FS5.
In short: map out your production and post production workflows. This will make choosing a camera easier.
See Jacob Fenn’s work over at fennworld.com
Links to gear discussed and used to record this session:
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Canon C200 Cinema Camera (Jacob’s main camera for corporate, commercial, and short film work)
B&H: bhpho.to/2hBbpJt
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Blackmagic Design Ursa Mini Pro Cinema Camera (This is my main camera for corporate video work)
B&H: bhpho.to/2AKJOcN
----------------------------------
Sony FS5 Cinema Camera
B&H: bhpho.to/2hCVz11
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Sennheiser MKH 8050 Supercardioid Boom Microphone
B&H: bhpho.to/2zozur3
----------------------------------
Aputure C120D LED Light
Amazon: geni.us/tAHmA3x
B&H: bhpho.to/2icq36p
----------------------------------
Aputure Light Dome Soft Box
Amazon: geni.us/s7UF
B&H: bhpho.to/2z9bRSw
----------------------------------
Copyright 2017 by Curtis Judd
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.

[@letsgobirding9246]

I've had the ursa mini pro 4.6k for 5 years and I just bought a C200! they each have their strengths and weaknesses and there's legitimate uses for each!

[@curtisjudd]

Interestingly, I sold my UMP a couple of years ago now and have been working with the C200 more for my corporate work. The dual pixel autofocus has been really helpful.

[@BasicFilmmaker]

GREAT video Curtis. It's obvious that Jacob knows his stuff. Love the format!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks BFM! Jacob is a giant!

[@robm9673]

Curtis, I really like the guest expert format. Great insights.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks for the feedback Rob, appreciate that!

[@produccionesonpex]

I agree. Good format, and great info by a guest expert!

[@EugeneMaynard]

As a potential buyer of the C200, I found this piece very informative! Thank you guys!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks!

[@AlanJMash]

I would love the C200 as a B Cam to my C300 MK II. Nice video...

[@curtisjudd]

I'd like to work with that combo as well! Thanks!

[@bobuk5722]

Hi Curtis and Jacob. I'd very much appreciate a walk through of your off/online proxy workflow Jacob. Perhaps you could also bear in mind that not all of us have Mac computers, which at present is particularly limiting with Canon's development software, hence my great interest in a proxy based workflow. Your comments Curtis on lighting for the URSA would also be much appreciated, the main thing that concerns me with the 'pro' is the reported lack of sensitivity and the archival implications of Apple withdrawing Quicktime support for Windows, otherwise I like it very much, even though kitted up it is bigger than the C200. Oh for that 'perfect' camera! Many thanks for this series. Bob.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Bob for the feedback! I'm hoping we can get some of Jacob's time to run through the offline/online workflow soon. I want to stress that we're not trying to convince anyone to use the cameras or computers we use, just that when considering which camera to buy, which is a very personal question, consider your preferred production and post workflows. I don't find lighting for the Ursa to be significantly different or more difficult than lighting for any other camera. I think it comes down to production workflow: If a shooter doesn't use lights, then the Ursa probably isn't for them. I usually light because I like to craft the look I'm going for. The Ursa's native ISO is 800 and so I don't even need a lot of light. I can craft the look quite nicely at ISO 800. ProRes is probably not the ideal workflow for a Windows PC post workflow. Avid DNx would be better but I don't know of any sub-$10,000 cameras which record to DNx (unless you use an Atomos recorder). Thanks for the thoughtful questions, I appreciate that!

[@Fennworld]

I'm not a fan of Canon's software in general, so the proxy workflow works well for bypassing it entirely and just working in Resolve. Will try to expand further in the near future; it's not difficult at all.

[@CoveringFish]

I passed up the c200 for a 1dx and what you just described makes the c200 perfect for my next camera

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@52goldtop]

Thanks for this video too, Curtis. Solid follow-up or pre-watch for the 6mos later UMP vid, especially for anyone torn between the two or for those who just need to hear about the cameras from ppl using them in different fields and utilizing different workflows or gaming the storage properly via proxy editing. Going with UMP but your guest was super insightful and I think the C200 is strong and makes sense for many folks.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! Yes, I find more and more that the best choice depends on what you're shooting and how you prefer or need to work. Thanks again!

[@automat8]

So good. So much information. Have to watch it multiple times. Great to get another set of eyes.

[@curtisjudd]

+ismael ramirez thanks!

[@georgedoyle8795]

Great video Curtis, looking forward to the in depth workflow video!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks George, I'm looking forward to it as well!

[@SatanicJamnic]

Great video. But guys, please. Just sit down, chill, take a drink, talk longer. We really don't need artificial light and background.

[@curtisjudd]

LOL! Thanks!

[@Fennworld]

No good chairs available.

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

Nah, Curtis is the king of the white backdrop! He did an entire segment of the 'Apple look' and it was fantastic. Although I could never quite get it to work as well...

[@ZaberAnsaryOfficial]

Wow didn't think Id learn those new things when I clicked on the video. Please do the Part Two Soon. :)

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks!

[@jeongraekim7177]

Amazing video! I just love how you touch on the real usage of a camera(s). Not just spec sheets and 'youtube uses'. (Srry for some baaad english. Love from south korea!)

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! Your English is great!

[@alexanderverdoodt]

I was starting to think no one was working on/offline anymore. Glad to see I'm not the only one. Let my desktop transcode the raw to the mezzanine codec while I precut the mp4 on my laptop. Great review!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Alexander. Yes, this was new to me - glad I got to hear Jacob explain it.

[@JonPais]

I’m not even in the market for a cinema camera, but approaching from a workflow standpoint was a geat idea, interesting from beginning to end.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Jon!

[@Photographicelements]

Amazing video! Would love another video with Jacob! I love this type of video more than product reviews, (although I do and will continue to watch your product reviews). Would love more b-roll of proxies, etc..

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! More to come!

[@OwenCrowley]

A fantastic discussion, and the angle on workflow is brilliant - all the more genious because it should be obvious but reviewers rarely touch on it. You always need to think of post when you shoot. For that reason, I am reluctant as a videographer and editor to team with camera operators who don’t themselves edit. Another factor rarely touched upon, critical particularly for single-shooter ENG and EFP, is audio performance. For the past several years I have been shooting with a Panasonic HPX250, which has pretty good onboard audio and shoots 422 video. Now I want 4k generally and raw for specific projects. The URSA Mini Pro looks very tempting. Nobody talks much about its native audio capture capability however. Curtis, it would be great if you could make an episode about your experience with the URSA Mini Pro, including picture AND onboard audio AND workflow. (And if there is a way to wrangle frame-perfect proxy using something like a Video Assist, it would be great to know about that, too.)

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Owen. We did a short piece on listening to the preamps on the UMP and they are ok but not stellar. Probably acceptable for quick spots where the highest production value isn't required (even with my DPA 4017B shotgun, I had to run the gain up to about 90/100 and at that point, the self noise was evident. Forget using dynamic microphones like you might for ENG spots). However, what is impressive on the audio front is the fact that the XLR inputs can take an AES digital stream from mixers which can output AES. This, of course, means that the camera is simply taking the already digitized audio and syncs it to picture in camera. For those who would like to avoid dual system workflows, this is an interesting option. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5zalX-ue56oaKs I brought Jacob on the show because he's far more steeped in the technical elements of picture. I'm sure my insights on picture on the UMP would be rather disappointing. In fact, right after we shot this, Jacob gave me some insights that I should have figured out months ago in terms of how to expose for the UMP's "film" profile. I was exposing way too hot so the BMD standard LUT always ended up looking alien. I'm embarrassed to admit it. In sum, I've still got a lot to learn on the picture front. I hadn't considered using Video Assist for proxies. Interesting idea worth consideration. Thanks for that!

[@OwenCrowley]

Ah great, thanks for that review of UMP’s XLR audio. I could make that work. The practical test of course would be for me to take a UMP out to capture a demonstration here in NYC. Political actions in my circles often involve shouting, sirens and even radical brass bands in noisy places like Times Square. That would show what the UMP’s limiters are made of, as well as test my skills keeping focus on an s35 sensor. If/when I get my hands on a UMP I will let you know the experience. I can try asking about proxy capture on BlackMagic’s message board (unless Jacob knows the answer already).

[@marcofiorephoto]

Awesome episode Curtis! Not the classical review/comparison but a serious talk about "how to work properly".. I've really appreciate that! what about a similar episode focused on the audio workflow?

[@curtisjudd]

Great idea on audio workflow. Will add it to the list!

[@3BMEP]

Nicely done, guys! Food for thought. Wondering about proxy workflow applied to GH5 because it would make sense to edit on my mid-2012 laptop - though I’ve just never liked editing in that low res. Thoughts appreciated, especially since you’re also a GH5 shooter, Curtis. Also - how did you light and mic?

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Hugh! I must confess that I have not given much thought to a proxy workflow for GH5 until you asked. From what I can tell, there is not a way to record different codecs to each of the internal cards. One could potentially use an external recorder but if you feed 4:2:2 10-bit output via the HDMI port, then you cannot simultaneously record to the camera's internal SD card. That would leave the option of recording to the highest possible quality codec internally or to an external recorder and then creating lower quality proxies in post prior to edit. But that seems like a pretty time consuming approach. Anyone else out there know of a better option? As for lighting and sound - we were in Jacob's studio. He has some permanently installed LED strip lights for the back wall and then we use an Aputure COB120d with Light Dome as his key and a Fotodiox flapjack (the huge one) as a key on me. The microphone was a Sennheiser MKH 8050 super cardioid boomed about 1.5 meters in front of both of us. Because of that placement, the audio includes a fair bit of the room reverberation so that wasn't ideal.

[@3BMEP]

Was wondering about the reverb, Curtis. Normally, you'd recommend separate boomed mics pointing away from each other from the center, yes? I'd have probably used a pair of wireless lavs and had cross-talk. Sigh.

[@curtisjudd]

That would be ideal, and a rug on the wood floor and perhaps some sound blankets on c-stands. Even just a rug would have done wonders.

[@3BMEP]

Curtis Judd I’m going to have to check into sound blankets...

[@Stefannlee]

Thanks for the video! U guys are so peaceful and I like it! Keep up the good work!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Stefan!

[@lucaloschi8958]

After 3 years still nice to see this video (waiting for the new Canon cinema series) 👍🏻

[@curtisjudd]

Update: I sold the Ursa Mini Pro and for my type of work, wish I had bought the C200 instead. 😁

[@lucaloschi8958]

@@curtisjudd So now you're a Canon shooter? 😄 Thinking about the same camera for myself

[@curtisjudd]

No, shooting Pocket 4K and 6K presently. But wish I had bought the C200.

[@lucaloschi8958]

@@curtisjudd Well you haven't betrayed BMC in the end 😂 Really nice cameras, actually Af aside I really like them too. But can I ask if it's smooth to match the footages of the 4k and the 6 k?

[@curtisjudd]

@@lucaloschi8958 Yes, easy to match in my case where I usually use one for the main story line and the other for b-roll/insert shots. Haven't used them in a two cam shoot where color matching is more critical.

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

Very interesting. Now all Canon has to do is 4:2:2. I guess you can spring for the c700... My partner and I are in this same price point; besides your two cameras there is the Fs7 and the Eva1. Since I own the GH4, the GH5 and an older Panasonic, I'm leaning EVA just for easiet matching in post.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, and FS5. I'd like to try the EVA1 as well.

[@daymianmejia5910]

I hear that Film Convert has a great add-on (or a plugin?) that allows you to match cameras easier.

[@atalipsos9799]

Canon C200 and similar are much beyond any enthusiastic users needs. Nice to see, what professional use ... and that´s it.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, agreed. Lots of good options from Sony, Panasonic and others for enthusiasts. Thanks!

[@Fennworld]

Interestingly enough, people avoid renting, which is what I've almost always done in the past. This camera gets down to that price point where owner-operators can dive in, but yes, like you mention, it's still sort of a step up price-wise from what an occasional shooter might want.

[@momchilyordanov8190]

I don't need or going to buy a cinema camera, yet watched the whole video lol. I find your channel to be well made. Keep up the good work! And on more practical note - I followed your advice what to record sound with in the (rare) occasions I shoot video with my DSLR. Worked fine and your assessments were correct. So your channel is not only interesting, but helpful too :)

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Momchil!

[@KevinFeusier]

I don't find the physical access limiting on the C200 compared to another like the Ursa mini. I've mapped my buttons out pretty conveniently for my setup and like you pointed out with the toggle switch on the Ursa mini, I've mapped my ISO to the lower scroll wheel on the C200 body which gives me quick access to all major functions; ISO, fstop and ND filters all on the body.

[@curtisjudd]

👍 Even as an Ursa Mini Pro owner, I still feel some envy for C200 shooters.

[@robojim4000]

Great video! It would be great to have an entire workflow video for c200 using proxies and Resolve. I have a c200 and a bit lost on raw workflow

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Jim, I'm hopeful we can do that episode with Jacob soon.

[@NaturallyCapturedWeddings]

Great video guys! I really enjoyed this one! Thank you for sharing.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks!

[@photoshopcafe]

11:50 he discusses a pistol grip gimbal. do you know what gimbal he recommends?

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

He used the Pilotfly H2. He showed me and it is a bit of a stretch (handle needs to stay pretty much close to vertical due to the gimbal arms colliding with the camera body otherwise. Also cannot switch to inverted mode with the camera mounted. Not a truly ideal match, but technically possible. We also tried the Zhiyun Crane 2 and same thing: Technically works but very limited range of movement because the arms hit the camera body.

[@JacobVossFilms]

Love these comparisons

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@southernversus5753]

Great video. Thanks! Need that RAID storage deep dive from Jacob ;)

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks, looking forward to the proxy workflow video myself!

[@thogan]

I bought the Canon C200 and shot a short dramatic film on it recently outdoors at twilight and night with lighting. We had an Ursa Mini 4.6K as a second camera and a Sony a7SII as a third camera on the shoot. I had hoped to use the RAW but I am a PC not a MAC computer user and the workflow is nearly impossible for the Canon RAW Light on a PC so I used the 8 bit 420 4K MP4. At first I was jealous that the URSA Mini 4.6K could shoot ProRes 10 bit 444. But in post I found that some of the URSA Pro Res 10 bit 444 video that was underexposed a little displayed terrible fixed pattern noise when I tried to increase the gamma a little and was generally inferior or no better than the Canon 8 bit 420 video. I am still hoping we can by popular demand convince Canon to at least provide in a firmware update the ability to shoot a 10 bit 422 4K file to the CFast card even if it has to be a paid firmware update. Then the C200 would be the ideal camera. The autofocus is great in that there are settings that prevent the autofocus from searching wildly when it temporarily loses sight of a face. But until my editor, Vegas Pro, adds the ability to edit the RAW Light file I am finding the RAW Light unusable. The Canon Cinema RAW Development is necessary to use unless you edit with Avid. Resolve can't actually make RAW adjustments like Canon CRD can or the Canon plugin for Avid can. Resolve can edit the Canon Cinema RAW Light file and render it out in some other format for you but Canon says it is not actually making true RAW adjustments to the file. Also you need the paid studio version of Resolve to render out the full 4096x2160 resolution of the Raw Light file. So with Resolve you need to have the exposure, WB, and preset all correct in camera or it will be just like making those adjustments on a Pro Res non RAW file. However, the Canon Cinema RAW Development software can only output a Pro Res 10 or 12 bit 4444 file if you use it on a MAC computer and it better be on a fast high powered MAC computer. I tried outputing a Pro Res file with CRD on an old MAC laptop and took over half hour to process a 30 second RAW clip. On a PC CRD can't output a useful file. Instead it will take one RAW file and output numerous smaller DPX files and separate WAV files for the audio that have to be re-assembled and audio wav files synced to the corresponding DPX files in something like Resolve, which can then render it out in a useable single file format. I just hope that the Vegas Pro development team is working on be able to edit the Canon RAW Light file. The other thing that Canon could do is program Canon Raw Development to out put something like a DNxHR file on a PC instead of the useless DPX files.

[@pbfilms6356]

T Hogan, couldn't agree more about the RAW workflow. I also use Vegas Pro (Windows) and we currently can't take advantage of the RAW files, or are forced into a very time consuming workflow. I purchased a C200 about 3 weeks and LOVE the camera! The 8 bit MP4 4K files are beautiful and the DPAF is amazing! Coming from a 5DMIII, I don't know how I lived without it.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks for the insights. These are exactly the types of considerations that should go into deciding on a camera. Much appreciated!

[@Fennworld]

I'll try to address this better when I have more time, but there's an oft-held misconception that I think bears correcting here. Hopefully you believe me :) You *can* actually make both exposure and white balance adjustments *after* debayering without any real quality hit if the software doesn't have any processing constraints bit-depth-wise. You simply have to either work in a true log space with offset control, or, more commonly, in linear with gain adjustments. The current issue with Resolve isn't so much that the 'raw tab' is grayed out, but that it's debayering to something not-quite-CLOG2 and that there seems to be an additional sensor gamut transform that the Canon software knows about and Resolve doesn't. From my experience, this only affects certain shots and it's most noticeable in the blues.

[@thogan]

I called Canon Cinema Camera support and was told I was the first to complain about the Windows RAW workflow. They actually recorded my complaint and submitted it to whoever reviews complaints at Canon. Here is the number: 1-855-CINE-EOS (1-855-246-3367) You may want to call and complain. I asked for a DNxHR file output from the RAW development software for Windows users and for a 10 bit 422 file to be recorded in camera to the CFast card. Maybe if Canon gets enough complaints they will do something.

[@iAmirx]

T Hogan if you have enough money to buy a 7k camera, you’ll have enough money to buy a €1500 computer to edit the files that come from it

[@dl_silky]

super helpful, such important info. Thanks!

[@curtisjudd]

👍🏻

[@germanmairen]

AWESOME video, congratulations

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks!

[@torrolfjohansen]

Thoroughly enjoyed your discussion Curtis and Jacob, though the title left me feeling a bit mislead as it was clearly 90% about the C200, and I specifically tuned in to hear your thoughts on the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K as well. Regardless, good stuff, I will subscribe to your future vids.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Tor, thanks for the feedback. Sorry, the intention was not to mislead but to focus on the idea that considering one's workflow is very important when choosing a camera. I've been shooting with the UMP for almost 9 months and am very happy with what it produces. It is very simple to operate (good menus and physical controls). It is definitely larger and heavier than the C200, but in my opinion produces a very nice image when you light your scenes. It is not a high ISO camera, so for doc filmmakers, there are probably better options. I shoot ProRes exclusively which makes my post workflow very simple - take the UHD footage directly into edit without any need for transcoding. I shoot dual system sound. The microphone preamps are decent but not as good as a proper mixer/recorder like Sound Devices or even a Zoom F series. The UMP's mic inputs can also take digital AES audio so if you've got a mixer/recorder that can output AES digital audio, that can be a great "single system" sound workflow where the audio is synced while shot. Thanks again!

[@ocubex]

Same here, while I enjoyed the review I was left disappointed with the imbalance.

[@curtisjudd]

Sorry. :(

[@yuidfbse]

Great video, thanks a lot! I am in the process of buying a C200 myself and have a really stupid and noob question but.. i will ask anyway simply because I dont know about it or how this camera works. When shooting RAW, are any video profiles or LOG modes selectable or can/need to be applied (like when shooting MP4), or because its RAW, basically is just RAW straight out of the sensor with no procession and end of story? Thanks again :)

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Android, on the C200, it shoots raw light which is not pure sensor data like traditional raw formats. But it is very close. But we'd need Jacob to confirm whether there are any profiles applied and whether they are selectable.

[@legendp2011]

for me it's the camera that saves me time on set, as I don't mind spending extra time in post.....that's why I would lean towards the c200 (in raw) thanks to the autofucs (don't always have an experienced focus puller) and low-light performance, and the light weight of the c200 (meaning I can use a glidecam without a vest).......would be nice if premier pro and davinci resolve can add support for c200 raw. EDIT: my biggest concern with the c200 is that air vent for when it's shoulder mounted

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks for sharing your experience with/insights on the C200!

[@dingoboy]

Great video. I've got some questions and comments: 1. The camera is cheaper than is described: $7500 in the US. That's the model with LCD, EVF, handle, etc. The C200 2. Jacob mentions that CFast comes in a "little cheaper" than the Red mini-mag. It's actually a lot cheaper: about 1/4 of the price. (A 240 GB Red Mini Mag is $1250; a 256 GB CFast card is $300.) 3. Jacob, you mention that you've used a single-handed gimbal with the C200; which one? 4. I don't understand the comments around 5:35 (kzbin.info/www/bejne/haHNgGeMrq-Kpckm35s) regarding the chroma sampling. I don't understand how reducing resolution would improve color. Can you explain? 5. The C200 uses a different naming format for proxy files than the raw files. How do you handle that? I'm a C200 owner and my workflow is a little different from Jacob's. I shoot raw unless I need very long recording time or I need a recording feature that isn't supported in raw (pre-recording mode, for example). My issue with the proxy workflow is that proxies are h.264 so are small in size but aren't very smooth to edit. I transcode my raw files to ProRes 44444 in Clog3, which I then edit directly in Premiere. If I need smaller file sizes (for editing on a laptop, for example), I'll have Premiere make proxy files and use those. I'm definitely looking forward to Premiere supporting raw directly.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Fergus! 1) Yes, that was my mistake. I quoted the price with the 24-105 f4L lens bundled. 2) I'll let Jacob confirm, I believe he was referring to a specific 512GB CFast card 3) Jacob :) 4) I'll also let Jacob clarify but the idea is that when you shoot in 4K at 4:2:0 chroma sub-sampling, when you conform the footage down to 1080, each 4 pixels can be averaged to come up with a new color value for each individual pixel when the computation is done in 10-bit space. In theory, this should result in smoother transitions and deeper color info. I'm not sure how well that works out in practice. 5) Good point. Jacob will hopefully be able to show how in the follow-up video. Thanks for the info on your workflow. I wonder if playback of the proxy files are any better in Resolve 14. Interesting question for Jacob there as well.

[@Fennworld]

Fergus, great questions. 1: I like the touch focus LCD option so I went with the accessorized version. 2. You're comparing only storage capacity of the recording medium. I think RED has a more efficient compression to visual quality ratio so when I did my cost/data rate analysis I think I used 8:1 compression at 4k since that's fairly common for the types of projects I shoot on RED. The price also varies greatly if you're using a Canon-certified CFast card. 3. Pilotfly H2 4. If you have a 4k image chroma sub-sampling blue at every-other-pixel then when you scale that image to half the size you now have blue sampled (theoretically) at every pixel (for example). 5. The C200 manual says the file name choice is based on Canon's adherence to the codec standards which is understandable. A lot of 'pro' conforms don't actually rely on filename, reel name is more common. In this case, as long as time code is there I'm usually able to conform without issue, and Resolve is very good at giving you options for what metadata to consider for conforming the online. I've not had an issue at all with the C200 proxies in edit. I've only used them in Resolve though, not Premiere, and Resolve is worlds faster with long-GOP footage post version 14 than it used to be.

[@dingoboy]

Thanks for responding to my comments; very useful! Great point about the Red compression; I hadn't taken that into account. As for the Canon certified card thing, that's an interesting point. I don't think Canon uses the term "certified" with the C200; I've seen them say "tested" and "verified" and "compatible". In a conversation I had with someone at Canon, they said what they really cared about was the VPG-130 certification. Cards that didn't meet that standard would not work; cards that did would. But they've made things more confusing by not making that clear. Their list of compatible cards isn't very useful: they've got one 256 GB CFast card (the Lexar) and that card has actually been discontinued! I wish Canon would make this issue clearer. So far, I haven't heard of anyone having problems with VPG-130 certified cards. I used the 256 GB EgoDisk cards and they've been fine. Thanks for explain the chroma sampling. Just before reading your post here, I found a good article about the same thing: www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2015/10/08/when-420-8bit-becomes-444-10bit-from-barry-green/. Thanks for tip on the proxy workflow. I'm only a Premiere user (since I'm actually an Adobe employee!), so I'll have to try out the C200 proxy files. Thanks again!

[@DCuerpoJr]

I rented the C200 for a 2-day solo-shoot. Love the ability to work with raw footage and touchscreen dual pixel auto focus. Though, I am still trying to figure out how to optimize my online/offline editing. I like Resolve, but it currently doesn't support some of the exposure and white balance adjustments that Canon Raw Developer has.

[@curtisjudd]

David, Thanks for sharing your experience with the C200!

[@DCuerpoJr]

Would love to see a tutorial/walk through of Jacob's or your online/offline workflow just to see if there's anything I'm missing in order to be more efficient. I primarily use Premiere Pro (for multi-editor projects) and Final Cut Pro X (for small, quick-turn around stuff) so I'm a bit new with adapting over to Resolve.

[@Fennworld]

David, you can see my reply further up, but basically you can actually make both exposure and white balance adjustments after debayering without any real quality hit if the software doesn't have any processing constraints bit-depth-wise. You simply have to either work in a true log space with offset control, or, more commonly, in linear with gain adjustments. I know this sounds counter-intuitive because from a photographer's point of view we all think one of the big benefits of raw is being able to choose white balance based on the 'raw data'. Will try and get something up on this soon.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Soooooo good! Thank you so much, Curtis. The idea of building your capture platform around your workflow requirements is so important but gets little to no emphasis in most KZbin camera reviews. This area is really what separates the pros doing high quality work from the, uh, less professional spec junkies. I’m really looking forward to the next video on workflows and I hope you will do a whole series on workflows with other guests. In other words, I can use a lot more education on this whole topic. PS: Do you speak any Spanish?

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Marcos! Looking forward to the workflow videos as well! No, unfortunately no real Spanish experience.

[@Fennworld]

Marcos, hablo suficiente como para comunicarme, pero no sé el vocabulario relacionado con el video. Tienes alguna pregunta especifica?

[@MarcosElMalo2]

FennWorld No preocuparte, amigo. Solo quería saber si Curtis pueda presentar oraciones en español. Inglés es mi idioma primero. 😄 más o menos. 😆 Muchísimas gracias for offering your help!

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Curtis Judd No worries! I just had the idea/fantasy you might enjoy coming to San Miguel de Allende, Mexico to present a seminar or workshop. It’s just an idea at this point, nothing concrete.

[@curtisjudd]

Looks like Jacob might be your guy for that (at least the speaks Spanish part) ;-)

[@OliverJHughes]

Curtis, love the interview format - do more videos like this!!

[@curtisjudd]

+Oliver J Hughes thanks, will do Oliver!

[@pbfilms6356]

Thank you both for the review! Very helpful! Jacob, when you pair the C200 down, what pistol grip gimbal do you use and does it work well? I would love an option for an easy gimbal option. I haven't seen one reviewed that would work well with the c200 but haven't seen anyone strip off the LDC and handle either. Also, regarding your frustration with changing ISO using the button/menu options, set the front dial (dial next to the record button on the body of the camera) to ISO/Gain. You'll then have a dial to change ISO easily.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! Looking forward to Jacob's notes.

[@Fennworld]

Thanks NEBlackshirts! I use the Pilotfly H2 and yes, the LCD and side handle definitely have to be removed and it works best if you're willing to tweak PID (and more) settings. I just with I had more than one dial up front so I don't have to sacrifice aperture control in favor if ISO.

[@pbfilms6356]

100% agree with the "one more dial" wish! I use the hand grip for aperture and the side dial for ISO. I guess that wouldn't work if you had to remove the hand grip. Would you ever consider doing a tutorial on how you balance the Canon C200 with the Pilotfly H2? I'd love to see it!

[@ianzhao5693]

Hey Curtis, I know you don't review lenses, but I need to ask what lenses you use on your ursa mini pro. I'm trying to choose from these options: Xeen, Zeiss Milvus, cn-e, and canon usm primes. I know that it would be a great advantage to use af lenses on the c200, but I want to go beyond the l lenses without breaking my budget, which is about $1500-2000 per lens. Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Y. Zhao, 95% of my corporate shoots are with a Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 OS EF mount lens. I mostly shoot on sticks, talking head or interview so I don't generally need cine glass. When not shooting with the Sigma, I have an EF to Nikon F adapter and use various vintage Nikon lenses for shots where I want a little more "character" - an old manual focus 105mm, a 20mm, and an 80-200mm.

[@ianzhao5693]

Thanks so very mcuh for the prompt reply! The 24-70 f2.8 is a must, especially for the c200's dual-pixel AF. I had the tamron 24-70 f2.8 g2 for my nikon but traded it in. I heard that the tamron g2 is sharper than the sigma, while the 24-70 f2.8 usm II is the sharpest. So I'm considering get my hands on an ef mount g2 again. I don't know if I should choose sharpness and overall image quality of the canon or the stabilization of the g2 though. I do love the sigma art for my c200 especially the 18-35. Thanks again Curtis for offering advices every time when I need them. Quite a few of my gears were purchased based on your suggestions, and they have serve me well

[@yourfilm1000]

And... when ..i...concider...the iso issue...A...thnk of ... Best regard S A7Sii

[@curtisjudd]

The UMP is not for every situation. The A7SII is a fine camera too.

[@kalamfelsameem]

Another amazing video ☺ I had 2 questions: 1- can we use this cfast adapter that inserts this dummy cfast into the camera and saves the data to an external SSD like some people do with the ursa mini pro? 2- can u make a video to explain how to do this online offline workflow? Thanks a lot in advance ☺

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! I don't believe that Jacob has tried the dummy c-fast card. It should work, but we haven't confirmed with experience, at least not yet. Definitely planning on covering the proxy workflow. Thanks again!

[@Fennworld]

I did actually hear of attempts with the SSD route but it requires physical modification of the camera since the CFAST slot is covered by a door. Even after fooling the door sensor there were issues. Because of the way I use the camera, I haven't looked into it any further. My work is so divided between the long form stuff (perfectly suited to h.264) and higher quality/cinematic short form stuff (30 minute mag is generous in those situations) that I'd rather not disturb the ergonomic advantages of the camera with a dangling SSD.

[@iAmirx]

A couple of owners tried it (on the C200 user group on Facebook), it's easy to bypass the sensor-problem without any physical modifications of the door. To answer your question: the camera doesn't recognize the SSD nor the adapter.

[@NoirEtBlancVie]

Another great video Curtis! I've been thinking about getting the C200 to compliment my Ursa Mini 4.6k...this helps a lot. Thank you again!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! That sounds like a fun combination!

[@NoirEtBlancVie]

Oh hey Curtis, you may totally already know this, but I remember way back when you did a review of the Aputure lights someone asked about a grid, well I found one that works. Maybe if someone asks in the future you can suggest them this one I literally was searching for a grid tonight and found this one...the price was totally right. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075VQ3QJ9/ref=ox_sc_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A11SIRN2SMBLGK

[@curtisjudd]

Awesome find, thanks for that! Have you already ordered one?

[@NoirEtBlancVie]

Curtis Judd yup I ordered it last night. We'll see how it actually fits, though description said it should be a good match.

[@automat8]

Being a Sony shooter I have the right to say. Sony menus "Suck!"

[@curtisjudd]

+ismael ramirez Haha! Same for Jacob and me: we’re also Sony owners and both find the Sony menus inexplicably more complicated than necessary. If Sony is worried that their long-time users will have to learn a new set of menus and be angry, I’m pretty sure that a good re-design will make almost everyone happy, including long-time users.

[@legendp2011]

hear hear

[@NarekAvetisyan]

Nice discussion. At first when he pulled out the 5D Mark III I was like wtfff.... lmao. Nice one. So my question is. How is the RAW editing in Resolve. And can you edit the RAW files directly from the CF card?

[@curtisjudd]

Good questions Narek, I’m hoping to get back with Jacob and shoot another piece on the post workflow. Jacob usually does not edit with the raw files, just the proxies.

[@wrthit1915]

On the C200, I wonder if you transcode the raw lite to “proxy” using the canon development tool, if you will then later be able to link the raw files to your edit. Even wit this workflow, I wonder if it is possible using the Sd proxies and the canon dev tool to link files after editing. Not sure how the development tool would know how to import the correct files?

[@curtisjudd]

We're hoping to cover this in the workflow episode coming in the future.

[@chrisw443]

Very very nice video. And i am much more a operator / dp, so if a project needs intense editing and demands raw, i dont usually edit it. So operation of a camera is far more important for me. Its just a little to big for me.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Chris. Good points.

[@stefanthorndahl1666]

cool! does Jacob have a channel? Either way I would love to see his workflow with the 5D Mark III Magic Lantern Raw.

[@curtisjudd]

Technically he does at kzbin.info. But we've been talking about working together.

[@rashadnobles]

My C200 died yesterday. I had a shoot and the camera didn't turn on. Fan came on and SD card light came on but no EVF or LCD. After a while of problem solving the LCD came on and started blinking and the whole screen turned green. Today the camera will not turn on at all. Lucky I was able to use my 80D.

[@curtisjudd]

Unfortunate! I hope that Canon support takes good care of the situation.

[@rashadnobles]

Curtis Judd So far so good. But major letdown. Might need extended warranty.

[@ChicoDaUno]

great video . super informative .

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks!

[@KGKraetzerMedia]

Thanks Curtis, someday I'll have a camera like one of these. Covered the Army-Navy Game Press Conference Wednesday using a Samsung 8+ smartphone with a light and Plug in Mic. Did 9 interviiews, most video came out well although lighting poor in most situations. Samsung 7 Edge was better at brightening backgrounds. Big challenge is getting good sound during presentations. Use my Canon T5i for presentations to record long presentations. Any suggestions?

[@curtisjudd]

For reportage, I have had good luck with the RODE Reporter. You can get that into your T5i via the RODELink wireless: bhpho.to/2BC5rNG

[@KGKraetzerMedia]

Curtis Judd had not thought of trying a wire less Mic, we tend to just use a camera mounted Mic, often the Saramonic with dual mics connected to my Samsung 8+

[@rashadnobles]

Assign Iso to the wheel on the left. Simple as that.

[@curtisjudd]

Good idea, thanks.

[@Fennworld]

Just need more wheels on the left ;)

[@Lamplightprodsuk]

Very good presentation style. Straightforward, non-gimmicky - and pleased to see there's no beany hat in sight..... this time! 😄

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks.

[@Lamplightprodsuk]

I'm dithering about buying a 4.6Kmini pro. You state very clearly that scenes need to be lit - in an ideal world of course always - but I'm looking at ungraded raw night exteriors online shot which look to me like they would be gradeable. I've never graded raw movie footage. Is that where the rub is? Getting a decent grade?

[@curtisjudd]

The rub is in cases where low-key scenes are not exposed just right, you get a lot of noise. If you'll be shooting a lot of low key, I would probably choose a different camera.

[@Lamplightprodsuk]

Thanks. So hard to know what type of jobs will be coming along!

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, that's a tricky one. If I wasn't sure, I'd be more likely to go with the Canon.

[@perrymorrisjr]

Great job guys! Hey Chris, call yourself OMC, one man crew! LOL

[@curtisjudd]

OMC it is!

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

I didn't think the FS5 recorded 4K. Is this new, an upgrade? Wow, further complicates things!

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Scott, I believe it shot 4K from the beginning but they have updated the firmware and also sell a premium firmware which unlocks sending raw out via HDMI or SDI (I haven't followed it too closely but this is my recollection).

[@truce11]

Please more workflow videos. Esp for vlogging

[@curtisjudd]

Will do, thanks.

[@ZackKron]

I tried using the 2k proxies to rough in and start to grade my edit, but the debayered RAW never matches the CLOG3 mp4. Am I missing some setting in the infernal Canon development tool?

[@StevenFreitag]

The c-log3 mp4 has REC709 as the colour space, whereas the RAW uses Cinema Gamut as the colour space. The two will never match directly. Do your editing with the proxies, but colour correction and grading with the RAW.

[@melvinch]

I still don't understand the part of 4K 4:2:0 to HD 4:2:2. Is there any technical proof on this ? So suddenly you get more color information once you downsample ? If that is the case, will I get a 4:4:4 signal if I downsample 4K to SD ?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Melvin, when downsampling resolution, you interpolate the original pixel colors to the smaller number of pixels. So you effectively average 4 pixel’s color to make the color of a new pixel. This is not technically the same as capturing 4:2:2 sub-sampled color at capture but it is very close in terms of the final, visual effect.

[@jakejames1591]

There's a guy on KZbin who does some sample tests with this. Compares Sony Full Frame 8 bit 4k to Sony's Super 35 (FS7 I think) 10 bit 1080 and based on his tests, the 10 bit 1080 starts to break up quicker when grading. I'll have to find his name. Pretty interesting, though. Just search "Does 10 bit really matter?" I think that's the name of the video.

[@danekidner4202]

Great Video Curtis! Do you know what pistol grip gimbal Jacob uses for his C200? Thanks.

[@curtisjudd]

I don't remember off the top of my head but it is one of the larger gimbals. I'll ask. Thanks!

[@Fennworld]

Pilotfly H2.

[@RedBearAK]

Wow, shooting directly into ProRes? Must be nice!

[@curtisjudd]

Definitely nice.

[@NicolaiDeutsch]

How is it possible to link the Sub Recorded files with the RAW Developed files?!?!?! I have been struggling with that for ages. Files in MP4 are named: MVI_0012.mp4 but the RAW files have the normal file naming. A_C1_001...?!?! Even with Data import utility 4.2 I cant get them to work

[@curtisjudd]

Hopefully Jacob can answer that (I'm the one shooting with the Ursa Mini Pro).

[@aditya_akash]

Great Video.

[@curtisjudd]

+Aditya Akash Thanks!

[@filmselparaiso6263]

As an owner of 2 c100 mark 2s, im looking at a 4k cine camera and im not even considering the c200

[@curtisjudd]

Interesting, thanks! Why's that?

[@filmselparaiso6263]

I dont like mp4s, and i dont think id record a wedding in raw

[@curtisjudd]

Makes sense. Which camera do you think would be a good fit for a wedding shooter?

[@matahari1576]

Very nice interview. Thanks. But how is the URSA Mini Pro workflow with DaVinci resolve compared to the C200 workflow? I love everything about the C200 but the workflow is a big bummer. I had the Blackmagic Ursa Mini in my hands last week and was very surprised about the great built quality, the excellent Viewfinder from Blackmagic, the excellent menue structure, great Codecs a.s.o. To make it short: The bummer with the C200 is the limited codec for docummentary work, with the Blackmagic the low usabble ISO which seems to be around ISO 800 shooting in ProRes? Can you confirm that. And thanks again for the Video with all the information and leger presentation style.

[@curtisjudd]

Thank you Mata. The Ursa Mini Pro's native ISO is 800 and can also be set to 200 or 400 or 1600. I am not aware of any limitations switching to any of these ISOs when shooting to ProRes. I'm just now thinking of moving to Resolve for editing so will get back to you on workflow there. Thanks again!

[@matahari1576]

I was at a Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro workshop last week. There were three guys from Blackmagic. One was a professional Color grader. The second one a camera specialist with lots of professional experience. They both said, that Resolve is the natural partner for the Ursa. ISO was a topic like you can imagine. 1600 sounds good enough for me. 800 wouldn´t be enough. RAW would improve the low light capabilities they said. Would be great to hear from you again. Thanks again, and keep up the good work

[@topwaterfilms]

Hi Curtis, like your videos! My question is - I own a Canon C100mkii and it is great for the content I create. Like you I shoot brand and business videos for the web. I have a few clients asking me about broadcast commercials for television, so I am considering the C300mkii. Love the RED but workflow is too much for me. What thoughts can you provide on this. Many thanks!

[@curtisjudd]

This is a personal matter so I would let your intuition guide you. I can say from my perspective that I would go with the Canon. But Jacob may go with the Red (I'm not positive on that, just my guess). If your workflow is well served by the Canon and you can deliver everything your client needs/wants, you're probably better off sticking with what you know will work. I have found that there are very few circumstances where my clients even know or care about which camera I'm using - they care more about the final piece and how much it costs to get there. Workflow is a critical factor in answering those questions. Good luck!

[@topwaterfilms]

Thanks for the reply! Yes, my clients have never asked which camera i use. It's the final product and they care mainly that is successful. Don't get me wrong I LOVE the RED and what it has to offer image wise, just not down with the work flow and needs that the RED demands at this point in time. So seeing we are talking Canon...Would you use the C200 or C300mkii for 4k and commercial work. I know the 422 is needed for broadcast. Just curious of your choice and why. Thanks!

[@curtisjudd]

If the C300mkII were within budget, I'd probably go that direction, but I'd rent first to confirm.

[@KaidoLP]

If cfast is still too expensive, you can 1:1 adapt to SSDs with a simple cable with two different ends

[@curtisjudd]

Great point, thanks for that!

[@Fennworld]

Another commenter up top is very interested in this. If you can send more detail showing this successfully implemented on the C200 there's a big crowd that would love it.

[@SoundSpeeding]

Technically it was NOT Canon which kicked off the "HDSLR Revolution", as it was the Nikon D90 which was the first ever HDSLR. And as Canon was the other half of the Canikon Duopoly, the release of the D90 pushed Canon to include video in their next camera (just look at the Canon 50D! Capable of video, even had space in it designed for a mic, but no video! Likely if Canon wasn't dragged along by Nikon's D90, then we'd have had to wait a few more camera releases before Canon finally got around to releasing a HDSLR).

[@dingoboy]

The D90 wasn't full-frame and it only shot 1280 x 720 so while technically it was an HD camera, I don't think it had nearly the impact of the 5D Mark II.

[@curtisjudd]

Technically correct. Too bad Nikon didn't have a better showing for the duration. I'd still like to see them make a cinema camera.

[@Fennworld]

The D90 was one of my favorite cameras....for stills :) I guess I give Canon the credit because Nikon's effort wasn't quite of sufficient quality to be considered 'revolutionary'. The D90 was a Boston Massacre-a snowball in the face of the British, but nothing exceptionally disruptive. Dumping £9,000 of tea into the Boston harbor-that was the Canon 5D2, a real Boston Tea Party. Apologies for the terrible analogy.

[@curtisjudd]

Haha! And history lesson!

[@SoundSpeeding]

By your logic, why not then give the Panasonic GH1 the credit instead? First 24p HD stills camera, and with high quality too (for its time).

[@thogan]

What single gimbal works with the C200?

[@curtisjudd]

Jacob mentioned that to me but I don't remember, will need to ask. I believe it is one of the larger pistol grip gimbals.

[@JamesJacksonFilmz]

I've seen people put the C200 on the Zhiyun Crane 2

[@Fennworld]

I use the Pilotfly H2 with the C200.

[@Fennworld]

Canon 10-18mm f-slow and 50mm f1.8

[@AllenCavedo]

Nice camera. No external timecode connector that I can see. It does seem to have internal TC as Specs show "Time Code Drop Frame (in 59.94/29.97 mode only) or Non-Drop Frame Rec run, free run, regeneration" but I don't see how you jam it or take it. $8500 camera with no TC support, no thanks.

[@curtisjudd]

Deal breaker for the audio guys working with timecode. :) You could run TC into one of the audio inputs but that's a work-around that most producers aren't too excited by. Strangely, Canon doesn't seem to have TC inputs until you get to the C300.

[@ElectricBubble]

that was hardcore rad!

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@elpmettsol]

Between the cost of the camera, MAC (or PC,) Power MAC (for when your on the "grab and go",) tripod, bag, and all the other goodies that go along with it, I would approximate a 20k (at least,) investment..... and I didn't even consider the cost of lenses! Which means (to me,) you'ed better have almost back to back jobs for the next year billing at a starting price of 2500.00 (and up,) to justify the cost. And as I would be incline to believe most jobs out there are more documentary or run and gun vs cinematic, AND... as this type of cam is geared more for cinematic work vs broadcast or run and gun, well.....there you have it.

[@curtisjudd]

Yep, if you don't have any of those things already, the overall price tag is big.

[@elpmettsol]

The price tag is big, is somewhat inevitable - yes? An excellent review BTW! :) Also an excellent cam no doubt. Makes me feel like I want to shoot a movie. Yes, a "movie".

[@RZM991]

Great video. What film school did Jacob goes to?

[@curtisjudd]

I believe he went to BYU.

[@FCPWHAT]

Huh? ‘4K 4:2:0 on an HD timeline increases the sub sampling’?!! You what? That’s impossible - how can a timeline on its own add sensor information to a clip? If the image wasn’t captured at a 422 colour sample then no dicking around with the clip will bring that info back. You could artificially add but that’s not what you should be doing.

[@curtisjudd]

It averages each of the 4 de-bayered pixels for each new pixel effectively interpolating the color resolution. It is not the same as shooting in 422, but it is not necessarily a “bad” or invalid thing to do.

[@automat8]

Work flow talk would be great.

[@curtisjudd]

+ismael ramirez agreed, looking forward to it!

[@brendanlister883]

What lens did he have on the c200?

[@curtisjudd]

I think it was the Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 ART: bhpho.to/2CvXavA

[@JOMprodBeta]

was that a NIKON cap/lens on that CANON camera?!

[@curtisjudd]

Yep, we use whatever we can get our hands on. ;-)

[@artiebowman]

Workflow video would be nice >>>

[@curtisjudd]

It's definitely on the docket!

[@DougGreene]

Wow ... that dude knows his stuff! I like the format, but wondering if you've thought about a 2-camera format? It would require more editing, for sure, but having both of you in the same frame all the time feels a bit "crowded".

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Doug, yes, I agree. This was not an artistically shot piece and given the time we had, all that we could do. But yes, a 2 camera shoot and more attention to quality audio would be the things I'd like to change.

[@legendp2011]

+Curtis Judd......Audio sounded good to me. I would have liked some cut aways (sample RAW footage from camera, close ups of camera)...but I'm glad to have a video either way as it is very informative, thanks.

[@stephanes.]

If you buy an external recorder, you can set it to record a low resolution and you have at the same time the proxies and the Raw. Anyone confirms ?

[@curtisjudd]

With the Ursa Mini, yes, can record ProRes proxy with Atomos Shogun (or any of the others with SDI input).

[@stephanes.]

Thanks for your answers! I appreciate KZbinrs that take time to respond, so I suscribed ;)

[@johndraus1044]

So Curtis, I think I got a little mixed up. I watched this video then the one with your brother about the UMP. I posted a question over there about recording Proxies and Raw at the same time, and you said you can't. I think I miss-remembered Jacob talking about doing this with the C200 in this vid at around 6:30. and thought it was from the other vid about the UMP. But here you say that it can be done with the UMP. Is that if you use the Atomos for Proxies and the Cfast 2 for the RAW, no SSD? Can you record both at the same time on the C200? Record Raw to the Cfast and MP4 to the SD cards simultaneously?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi John, On the C200 you can record H.264 proxies to SD card at the same time you record raw to CFast. On the UMP, you cannot record two files simultaneously in the camera. You can add an Atomos recorder to record proxies via one of the SDI outputs on the UMP. Sorry for the confusion. Jacob specifically chose the C200 because it can do this internally. I chose the UMP because I do not generally use a proxy workflow for my jobs.

[@stephanes.]

Same problem for me with the Ursa Mini Pro, I need proxy files recording for fast edit... But C200 WAYY TOO EXPENSIVE!

[@curtisjudd]

Ursa Mini Pro with Atomos recorder is approaching the price of C200 is the only problem (UMP does not have HDMI output so you need one of the more expensive Atomos recorders with SDI in).

[@stephanes.]

But with a SDI - HDMI converter, it might work? If it works, we can go for a simple Blackmagic Assist (not even 4K)

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, but the Assist has an SDI input, so no converter required. :)

[@stephanes.]

oh that's great then! I'm gonna rent one! :) thanks for your precious help Curtis!

[@claytonmoore2091]

Forgive my market observation .......... I went to work for Apple before Steve Jobs came back and computers were beige. When I left, Apple was already the most valuable corporation on the planet. That didn't happen by being slow in the market place. People I know who worked for Canon said they were slow and from a business perspective VERY conservative. The C-100-300 are all very good solid cameras, but via their evolution in the market also represent that slow and conservative approach. Having said that, its also common knowledge with folks I know that camera manufactures have been reeling from a market that overall, has been moving almost to fast to keep up, combined with customers that cannot afford to buy every new camera body that comes out. Its still mystery to me however that Canon has opted to hang back from rolling out more advanced internal codec support.

[@curtisjudd]

Clayton, thanks for the insights! I agree. Canon (and Nikon) seem to focus on tiny incremental improvements and persist in holding back on the video related features many want. This has become particularly problematic for Nikon which is now in a bad spot financially. I hope they will realize the problem with their current approach and change but I'm not sure whether they will realize that soon enough.

[@PieterJvanEs]

Great review. Side note, I thought Curtis was a Premiere Pro Editor??

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks! I used to edit in Premiere but mostly Final Cut Pro X these days.

[@PieterJvanEs]

I switched to FCPX back in 2013. Love it.

[@curtisjudd]

Me too! The magnetic timeline is what made me stick with FCPX. I wish audio were easier to work with (no real concept of a bus for applying effects, or a master bus especially). But I do most of that in other DAWs and bring the mix back to FCPX.

[@PieterJvanEs]

Yes working with audio in FCPX does seem limiting compared to other more traditional NLEs, and this was definitely the case in early versions of X however it has been improved since rolls were introduced and you can work in a similar way as you would with Audition etc in a 'track' like set up. Check out this video, it should help you replicate the BUS workflow. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZTHd6qhoZ2heqc

[@curtisjudd]

Thank you Pieter, very interesting. I was using compound clips in a rather simplistic way to essentially create a master bus but this opens up some new opportunities. Even if I don't do the mixing in FCPX, this could simplify round trip operations by making compound clips that roll up to the role or sub-role level. Thanks for that!

[@josephjohnmichael26]

Ay wuddup Professor Fenn?!?

[@GameoverUK-YouTube]

Always love your videos, but seriously, why's your shirt so big? I had to check that this video wasn't made in the 80s... 😁😁😁 Again, love your vids

[@chandrashekarnagaraja4513]

GameoverUK true..

[@SoundSpeeding]

It is because Curtis is fairly tall, yet also quite skinny. I suspect he struggles to easily find well fitting clothes? As most extra large clothing is not just longer, but also wider!! :-( I have a teeny bit of a similar problem myself, and I'm not even as tall as Curtis.

[@curtisjudd]

Haha! Same thing my wife said when she saw me working on the edit. I am freakishly tall and skinny so I'm still looking for the clothier that makes shirts to fit me. If you have any tips, happy to hear them.

[@lylestavast7652]

you look fine. of course I'm 60 and fat, so....

[@SoundSpeeding]

One thing an ex girlfriend of mine used to do (who owned a sewing machine) is sewing in darts into my shirts: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dart_(sewing) Would be pretty simple, maybe just a couple of darts for half the length in the middle-ish segment of the back of each shirt, but amazing what taking just a few inches off the width of a shirt can do in it making it fit you better. (which is good, as although I'm "big", I'm also the opposite of being fat!!)

[@Gspec5]

Where's the footage?

[@curtisjudd]

This is not a camera review, more a discussion on workflow considerations when choosing a cinema camera.

[@colourberry]

Canon didnt kick off the DSLR revolution Nikon did with the D90. Credit where credit is due. Canon just made a better DSLR for video but Nikon started it.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Fair point. Nikon beat Canon by a few weeks.

[@colourberry]

@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions It wasnt a few weeks it was 5 months between announcements and likely Canon got wind of Nikon offering video before the D90's public announcement. Nikon were also the first to offer 422 HD out HDMI Nikon first to have both mic input and headphone jack.

[@curtisjudd]

@@colourberry Thanks for the details. For the record, I am a long-time Nikon DSLR and now Z6 owner. Much respect to Nikon. They're not perfect, but they make some good cameras.

[@chosenideahandle]

So basically Canon still hasn't done anything with the accidental revolution they kicked off, or at least they've completely abandoned anything along the lines of an affordable tool for indie filmmakers (which was the whole idea they accidentally had). Affordable is relative of course, and even at the start most of those filmmakers were buying their DSLRs used. I wouldn't complain if I had a C200, naturally.

[@curtisjudd]

:) I wouldn't complain either!

[@kar-unboxed]

Don’t mess with Proxy workflow if you have FCPX 10.4

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Thanks Karthik. I don't :)

[@analogshooter]

The perfect camera is a Canasonyc PLX-ARRI-BMC-MK XII½ MINI PRO

[@curtisjudd]

Precisely.

[@dacdacdac]

@1:40 Killed me!

[@curtisjudd]

Haha! Jacob's idea. He likes to keep his tongue in his cheek. 😀

[@hightowerjared]

You can take the URSA Mini part out of the title

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks for the feedback Harry.

[@oysteinsoreide4323]

Great video, but there is some serious low pitch sounds at about 5-7 minutes into the video. I have a sub connected to my pc when I watch this, and it made some jumps during the video.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, sorry about that. That room has some rough resonances.

[@oysteinsoreide4323]

@@curtisjudd Most people will most likely not notice it though, since most people listening on this with small earbuds with very little low bass response.

[@oysteinsoreide4323]

@@curtisjudd Could the issue have been solved by a having on a low frequency filter while recording or in post. I'm just curious. I'm trying to learn how to master audio recording, and it's much to think about.

[@curtisjudd]

Agreed. Your sub must be able to reproduce very low frequencies.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, absolutely. But that sub may also be picking up the resonances in the upper bass frequencies as well. I would bring sound blankets to cover the hard floor and hang off to the sides to help reduce that next time.

[@Saphir3000]

Now what I wanna know is if Jacob is actually almost as tall as you or is he standing on an apple box or something? ;)

[@curtisjudd]

I had to stand on an apple box for this episode. ;-)

[@BadKarma714]

If you have the money to get those. Cameras would be fine

[@curtisjudd]

And if not, lots of good options from Sony, Panasonic and others. I understand that these are mainly for people making money with their shooting and not generally accessible to enthusiasts unless you rent for short projects.

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

Renting can be a big hassle if you don't have a local rental house. In Sacramento the best you can get is a Sony A7sii. I've never done mail order. And the idea of learning how to operate a camera at $500 a day is off-putting.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Scott, I'm sorry for the confusion, I'm speaking in the context of paid jobs that have the budget for a cinema camera. Great things can be made with the mirrorless cameras available today so I'm not suggesting that everyone must use a cinema camera. At lensprotogo.com, the C200 can be rented for $385 for 4 days which for many paid jobs is fairly reasonable. But again, I'm speaking in the context of using these cinema cameras for paid jobs where there's budget, not for enthusiast self-funded projects.

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

Curtis, I know. It would just be so much easier in LA or New York. We are shopping for a $10k camera to make some narrative films and documentaries. We may try mail-order rentals or drive to San Francisco to check out in person.

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

Curtis Judd Have you addresses eye lights? Would be interested in learning about that.

[@AllenCavedo]

Do you only have really tall friends or is Jacob standing on a box?

[@curtisjudd]

Yes and yes. :)

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

Right now ... EVA 1 seems most interesting ....

[@PawelChyrowski]

lol

[@RayValdezPhotography]

lmao

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, particularly if it fits your post workflow!

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

Curtis Judd it does....lots of flex and options with beautiful color science .....

[@legendp2011]

I personally haven't been too impressed with the eva1 footage as of yet (granted I have not had hands on)....there is also the low quality internal codec on the eva1 (only 150 megabit on the eva1 vs c200 1000 megabit raw, although pansonic says they will patch in a 400megabit codec)

[@john-lenin]

The workflow for the C200 (or 300) is to sell it and buy an EVA 1.

[@RayValdezPhotography]

naw son

[@curtisjudd]

Haha!

[@UnratedAwesomeness]

Shooting on a lesser codec that isn’t more compatible with editing software?

[@legendp2011]

to each there own...but for me it's whatever camera saves me time on set.as I don't mind spending extra time in post (and RAW without needing an external recorder is a big plus)

[@chuckschultz9412]

why didn't you show the work flow??? To much talk.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks for the feedback. This turned into something different than we had intended and was to be followed up with a workflow video but many others beat us to the workflow part.