CAGED System Pros and Cons

[@randallkomisarek2875]

I did not begin to really understand the fretboard until I mastered triads (thank you Tomo!). From there building and identifying all chords becomes possible. The structure of triads also ties in so closely with understanding intervals and then arpeggios and even modes. It's all so intertwined. But once you see it you can't unsee it. Great video.

[@curiousguitarist]

Truth! Triads and the major scale allow all the pathways to open up.

[@jonessusan100]

@@curiousguitarist and

[@jonessusan100]

@@curiousguitarist and

[@scottkidwellmusic9175]

Forty years ago, as a teenager, I learned the basic open chords and how to barre. In my mind at the time, that was all I needed to play punk rock. My musical interests grew, I learned to play bass and played in a few bands. It was only in the last three or so years that I learned about the CAGED system. It has helped my guitar playing quite a bit, and furthered my fretboard theory to a point where I understand where the triads are, and how to adapt them to minor and diminished. Still a work in progress. I guess the short of it is thank you. Your lessons make sense to this old dog, and the pieces are coming together.

[@curiousguitarist]

So glad to hear it, Scott! CAGED is such an eye opener, it really is one of the fastest ways to really start to "see" the instrument.

[@johnharreld4875]

When I learned about the CAGED system it absolutely blew my mind that there was so much mysterious structure under what I was doing. But beyond that, it didn't really help me much itself. What it did do for me though is highlight the importance of knowing the roots of each chord shape and how the open chord shapes can help you remember triad shapes (major and minor) anywhere you need them. So that was valuable, true, but I could have and should have learned those things from the beginning even without CAGED. If I were to teach, I'd say: here are your open chord shapes, here's why (roots and triads), and here are the roots you'll need all around the neck (that is to learn, or better to internalize, the note positions on the fretboard). It's why I appreciate your channel so much; you teach how I wish I'd learned from the beginning decades ago!

[@TomKaszuba]

When you watch a KZbin video featuring a gifted teacher and you get Ah ha moments and things start to click. That’s gold folks and that’s exactly what I got here. Brilliant.

[@curiousguitarist]

That’s great to read, Tom. Thanks for the comment, and I’m so glad this was helpful.

[@mloftus]

Hi Chris, love your content. I've always seen the CAGED system as so much more than just full 5 or 6 string chords. First, the CAGED shapes are based on the root note locations and need to be seen that way; not just as a chain of major chords up the neck. All the triads are subsets of the CAGED chord shapes, and more easily found by knowing the CAGED shapes. The scales - major, natural minor, pentatonic - fit nicely over the caged shapes. Arpeggios follow CAGED shapes, or span between them. Etc. So, I agree that the big major chord shapes alone are limiting, it's just the foundation. I guess it's a question of where you determine the CAGED system ends. For me, it's opened up so much of the fretboard.

[@WarUlt]

Each CAGED shape has a corresponding major and minor pentatonic box. That was the real eye opener for me. Identify the root, boom there's a scale to match.

[@curiousguitarist]

That's exactly what CAGED was designed to do...engage guitarists who either cannot, or will not, for some reason, study actual theory. It gets guitarists on the bus. But just like any other system that is designed for outliers, it cannot fulfill the complete picture. And for what it's worth, CAGED is the one that lays over all the triads...not the other way around. Triads, the major scale, the pentatonic scales, they were all here hundreds of years ago, before guitars roamed the earth. I really appreciate what CAGED can do for the guitarists that can't make sense of the fretboard, but once they do, hopefully CAGED can be retired for a system that allows for an "unfiltered" consumption of the facts.

[@curiousguitarist]

Truth!!! Attaching stuff to CAGED is the way through it...eventually it runs it's course and you're just drinking the unfiltered stuff :)

[@simonbennett3171]

Another excellent video Chris. I'm working on intervals and triads at the moment and your other videos have helped. One of the tings I love about your videos is the questions you ask. When I stop and think about those I find a load of other questions that need to be answered! You are indeed making me curious!!

[@curiousguitarist]

My work here is complete! Kidding, but only slightly. Once you stoke your curiosity enough you can largely become self-educating and seek out these answers specifically. This makes the time you focus on guitar MUCH more valuable and impactful. Because then you’re seeking out the thing you need, rather then just tossing darts out there! Great comment, thanks, Simon.

[@PR-BEACHBOY]

Hi Chris! You may be the most professional and erudite teacher on the net. I find the “G” shape and the “D” shape (using my index as a barre) to be fairly impossible for me but, the complete “G” shaped barre chord is like the Chinese Water Torture. What I tend to use is either the upper or lower parts of the “G” shape to successfully navigate them on the neck. For the “D” I just use the “D” tried without the barre. The main reason is speed and ease of use. I don’t want to struggle to get those shapes under my fingers. I’m not getting any younger or dexterous. Still, many thanks for your great and very educational lessons!

[@curiousguitarist]

That's exactly how I use them too, Walt. Ultimately, getting the triads together seems to make CAGED a moot point. Thanks for the kind words, comment and views!

[@tone-glide2402]

I was never taught the caged system, learned it when I got older,.. its passed what I know now internally but , its another little trick to move you a little further down the path., And when your learning, every little bit helps. Showing the additional Chords on the 3 strings sets is defiantly the better way to completely have control over every chord shape on the fretboard! Good tips here!

[@yak9147]

After years of sampling guitar tutorials on youtube I can tell from the many, very informed comments, that you are attracting guitarists who are giving it a serious go. Overall, such, are probably quite a small percentage of people who own guitars. Good on you Chris , cause, as well as the videos, I am also learning from the comments and your reaction to them.

[@curiousguitarist]

Thanks yak, I simply can't do it any other way. I'm invested in getting guitarists "on the bus", that's what I love. Thanks for being here!

[@yak9147]

@@curiousguitarist Wow fast reply . 6.30 am here in NZ . I feel I'm on the bus but just behind the driver.

[@sbpsychology1109]

Yes! Watching that has just made a whole load of stuff click together in an extremely elegant and pleasing manner! Thank you so much... ( A few weeks ago, I took your advice in a triad vid about getting a bit of paper and a pencil and mapping things out. It really works and is helping my playing enormously after just a few weeks...and this gives yet another way to look at it that helps it all make some kind of sense. Music is fascinating!)

[@curiousguitarist]

Now you're sounding pretty dang curious! Love it!

[@frannyp46]

I remember about 5 years ago when there was an internet war between the caged and the three note per string guitarists. No one really won as certain styles of music suited one or the other. Best bet imo is to mix em up with major/ minor pentatonics/ chromatics / double stops plus more if anyone can suggest. Great lesson Chris.

[@curiousguitarist]

As long as you are learning, and moving forward I guess the actual method doesn’t really matter. CAGED needed to happen to help do just that, move the stubborn collective guitarist forward into the light of actual information. Thanks for the comment Franny!

[@kagenotatsumaki]

This video shows my exact issue with CAGED and why it just never worked for me, I literally tried to get on the CAGED train but it just never really clicked for me, I understood the concept, but the actual application on the Guitar was never there for me. I didn't reap the benefits of CAGED until I literally found the Triad shapes by mixing the traditional shape of the major scale with the 3NPS shape and then once I did that I found "Oh, 1, 3, 5, and then there's 3, 5, 1 and 5, 1, 3 and so... Oh! Slide the 1 to the 3 and then 3 to 5 and WOW!" And suddenly all of the things that people praised about CAGED I could see and use, but just starting from Triad shapes. And to Chris' point here, yeah now I can MUCH easier play pretty much any instrument better now because of my understanding of Triads, I was at my Aunt and Uncles house the other day and after about 30 minutes on their piano (very little experience on a piano/keyboard) I was playing the same songs I can play on guitar (the chords at least lol) and it was it was pretty cool!

[@curiousguitarist]

Great post. I love this kind of story because it outlines that freedoms moment, when it ACTUALLY unlocks. Not the “unlock the fretboard in 30 minutes” hype, but really seeing it. Thanks for the comment!

[@kdavis63]

Chris, because of the you, I now love Triads!!! Many mahalos!

[@curiousguitarist]

That makes me happy KD, Mahalo back to you, and thanks so much for your support!

[@eddiehigham2732]

Thank you for your videos

[@curiousguitarist]

You bet!

[@Rickster6118]

I need a triad chart! 😮

[@masterbuilder3166]

Excellent lesson Chris. Extremely helpful 👍

[@curiousguitarist]

Glad you think so! Thanks!

[@mothroyale9076]

Until now I have used the caged system as a starting point for understanding the fret board and had started to understand major and minor triads as part of the caged system. The caged system in more detail. I think about where the triads sit within the caged pattern/chord/scale they belong to.

[@curiousguitarist]

That is the PERFECT way to leverage the CAGED system!

[@garyeggleton1142]

I decided to study CAGED after watching several Guthrie Trapp videos, where he shows how to adapt the shapes for minor and diminished, and to learn scales,triads, and arpeggios in them. It is way more than most people realize.

[@curiousguitarist]

True, it's that adaptation that brings CAGED it's real potential.

[@dfaber56]

Awesome lesson Chris. This information is very liberating at take us to a new level. Thanks so much for sharing.

[@curiousguitarist]

Glad it was helpful, and glad you're here

[@rdesutter76]

Yet another amazing video. You never cease to amaze. Question... Is there such a thing as the "minor" CAGED? "aug" CAGED? "dim" CAGED? Maybe there's a way to use a stacked arpeggio to open up a free flowing fretboard? You've done so much to do that already. Triads and the idea of stacked triad inversions on my bass is the new breakthrough based on this video. I feel like I'm almost there... Are there ways to make this stick on the fretboard by applying it to things I already know? I spent too much time memorizing chords instead of understanding them.

[@curiousguitarist]

If you're after minor and other chord types, your best and shortest route is studying triads. Maj = R 3 5 Min = R b3 5 Dim = R b3 b5 Aug = R 3 #5

[@NDFlyFisher]

Have to admit that I never totally got CAGED. Still don’t. This is a very helpful video. Because you put CAGED in context. Every video I’ve ever watched on CAGED made it seem like it was a stand alone, learn it or you’ll never be able to move around the fret board. Thanks for giving me a better understanding 👍

[@curiousguitarist]

You're so welcome, glad you enjoyed this one!

[@keithlamontdavis8047]

Fantastic lesson Chris!! I love the CAGED system. You can't make music without minor and dominant chords, so I learned early oh which of the CAGED shapes lend themselves to those kinds of chords. With that, I had a great chords library that I could play all over the neck. Tying the CAGED shapes to the pentatonic boxes was also massively helpful in my lead playing. But your lesson clearly shows how learning triads gives you greater control of the instrument and of music theory. So that's my next step. The most powerful thing is to combine multiple ways of viewing the fretboard and have several of them to choose from in different situations.

[@curiousguitarist]

Truth! Sing it, Keith! Perfect plan.

[@Jgbaileymusic]

The positions aren’t merely full 6 string major chords extended up the neck. Each position should be considered one of five key guidelines contains its relevant minor chord, sub and dominant. G major contains the E minor shape etc. It’s the underlying diatonic framework of a standard tuned guitar, not a system of learning or understanding. Any other system can be relayed back to it. 3nps 4nps etc. any non diatonic chord can moved in the same way within its own key framework.

[@curiousguitarist]

It really is a stellar system, but its highest purpose should be to open a guitarists mind, and then have them leave it behind.

[@TreeWalker]

I won't claim that CAGED is the secret to guitar mastery, I don't think you're giving it enough credit. For one, it wasn't "designed" - it's a natural result of the standard tuning & the fretboard, whether you call it E shape or 1st position, the patterns are the same. Further, the role & placement of triad notes within the shapes is usually an aspect included in CAGED. Since one can certainly learn CAGED with an emphasis on chord intervals, you can use this framework to focus on triads & arppegios. And finally, CAGED certainly can include the minor chords & scale patferns- the same shapes get reoriented. The Am shape connects to the Gm shape, etc.

[@curiousguitarist]

And can you describe the Gm shape, or the Cm shape? Because for me, they are unplayable in that context. This is where CAGED starts to break down, in the tenuous connection to open chord shapes that do not alter efficiently. I think the CAGHED system is great, especially to get guitarists started in seeing how music actually works. I give it full credit in being one of the best ways to fulfil THAT end. But it does not do much more than that. And since it's a system that uses references it was indeed totally "designed" as a lens. The relationships are all there, naturally, within the sonic geometry. But the references and connections are "planned out" to allow guitarists an easy way in. Great comment, thanks TW!

[@TreeWalker]

@@curiousguitarist Yes, take the ever popular minor pentatonics. The Gm pattern is the same as the same A pattern in G major. Within the Em shape is the infamous box pattern. And so on. True, not every chord shape is as practical as another, but CAGED doesn't demand you play a six string chord in every context. Nor does it prohibit inclusion of open strings to create unique voicings only available in that key. If you're in one position and wish to use nearby elements of the next shape in the sequence, they are there to use. And again, the more comprehensive teachers of CAGED stress the importance of connecting these shapes, patterns, & shapes, to move fluidly between them, and to maintain awareness of the chord intervals.

[@curiousguitarist]

@@TreeWalker as long as CAGED is seen as a beginning it cannot fail :)

[@surfside16]

Great post. I was trying to learn the CAGED system and became frustrated with the shapes and how to play them. Much too difficult. They also don't have 7h chords. I stumbled onto Triads and although it takes a while to memorized the root positions and form Triads up and down the neck for the 1-3 chords strings and the 2-4 strings it's a lot easier than CAGED. Thanks for reaffirming my ideas and thoughts.

[@curiousguitarist]

Yeah you bet! I agree that triad study is a MUCH more direct route. Thanks for the comment!

[@chrisdiceart]

@Chris Sherland Guitar - thanks for all the great content. Your take on scales has changed the way I play. ...I think CAGED is a great gate way...surprised you don't like it!?

[@curiousguitarist]

I do like it, as a start. But it can’t provide a long term solution. I’m so glad you’re enjoying the channel, Chris

[@Mr.Krinkle]

The Caged system has always seemed heavy-handed to me. (one man's opinion) Thanx for validating the last year+ of learning triads. U da man Chris!

[@curiousguitarist]

Of course! Glad you’re here.

[@nuclearcharlie6867]

😊 thanks. Chris You are a great teacher

[@curiousguitarist]

Thanks, NC, I really appreciate that.

[@jeremyp5210]

Fantastic content as always sensei. Do you have a video recommendation from your catalog for learning to find triads effectively?

[@curiousguitarist]

Thanks! Try these: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXSmeIKCjdtnnrM kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnbUnKOVp96KiMk

[@jeremyp5210]

@@curiousguitarist thank you sir. Best Guitar instructor on the tube bar none.

[@hammster8255]

Spot on Jeremy. All of Chris content is fantastic but the triad videos are especially enlightening for building any chord using the major scale anywhere on the fretboard . Great job again Chris. Phil from Australia

[@bazilbrushrocks]

Seems a bit like semantics to me. Different people mean different things by the CAGED system. I learnt it with major and minor pentatonics overlaying the different chord shapes. That provides a great foundation for all intervals/ chord extensions etc.

[@curiousguitarist]

It is definitely a great foundation, I completely agree.

[@corey412]

I got into the CAGED system because of Hendrix, Mayer and John Frusciante. Thought the exact same thing you mentioned. Then started to see the magic of triads. It seems triads make it easier to create melodies. Plus Hendrix and company seem to use triads often.

[@curiousguitarist]

Exactly, and just think, Hendrix and Mayer never had the "CAGED" system, they just applied music theory to the fretboard in their own way(s)!!

[@corey412]

@curiousguitarist Thanks Chris! Love your channel!

[@IceCreamGuerrilla]

Fantastic, thanks

[@curiousguitarist]

You bet.

[@billandmyraclarke2809]

I can tell that you taught Marty Schartz because Im working through his "Marty Un-caged" videos and he is careful to show chord-triads too. Im just a beginner so the A and E of caged are my faves because I can still get a sus or minor without knotting up my fingers too badly. Thanks for the reminder that this system might get me on the bus, but to sit with the cool kids at the back Im gonna have to stay curious about the guitar.

[@curiousguitarist]

Perfectly stated...when you shift the limit to your curiosity, the need for even the BUS fades pretty quickly :)

[@DenjaCol]

Allot to consider, I learned the CAGED system and thought I was good…not so. Working on triads now. Thanks Chris

[@curiousguitarist]

You’re fine with CAGED, but there’s just so much more that can be “attached” to it. Triads are the single most liberating thing you can put on the fretboard in my opinion. Keep me posted!!

[@Kevinschart]

I don't quite understand your critique of the CAGED system. I was taught that the movable chords, triads, arpeggios and scales are ALL part of the CAGED system. I was also taught that the system was more about hand position than being able to create every kind of chord from open chords (ie dim sus, extensions). I was also taught to connect the CAGED scales as soon as possible. It's literally how the instrument is tuned and designed. In each position of the CAGED system you have access to all 12 notes without changing hand position. I also don't understand why you say there are no minor chords in CAGED. Sure there are. Finally, if CAGED was good enough for Joe Pass it's probably good enough for me.

[@curiousguitarist]

It’s a fantastic system, but it carries a lot guitar-centric context by nature of being instrument focused. There is no equivalent “system “ for any other musical instrument which simply points to CAGED being a guitar “lens” applied to general music theory. While it works wonders as an into to theory on the instrument, it can become unnecessary baggage very quickly. I have nothing against the system at all, it just isn’t holistic. It’s guitaristic.

[@Kevinschart]

​@@curiousguitaristBut you could say that about any system for any instrument. There's a frame work for working out theory on the clarinet, tuba, and the harmonica. Those instruments have systems, CAGED is a system to use on the guitar. Once I got my head around the CAGED system and learned the fretboard learning theory on the guitar became a breeze. I'm not sure if it's a matter of semantics, but I feel like you are placing limits on what the system can be used for. For example, your comment about CAGED not having minor chords. I don't agree with that at all. To me the CAGED system is as essential to the guitar as white and black keys are for the piano. It brings structure to an instrument that is lacking in linear simplicity. I would love to see a video explaining where the CAGED system fails a guitarist. Cheers

[@curiousguitarist]

@@Kevinschart if CAGED gets you started that’s great. Just don’t stay too long. And those other instruments don’t have “systems” because they don’t need them. It’s just music theory, no C, or A, or G analogies. Just musical constructs without a special lens to see them through. Please, please use the system, and don’t bother trying to convince me of anything. If it benefits you, why bother with what I believe? Please, if it gives you freedom, en with it!

[@Kevinschart]

​@curiousguitarist Are you saying that you, as an advanced player, no longer utilize the concepts covered by the CAGED system? Honest question. You also mentioned that CAGED has baggage? What baggage? Having said that, Maybe I just don't understand your take. I respectfully disagree with your last comment. I'm not saying that there is a "CAGED" equivalent, but piano/horn players organize theory on the instrument with "patterns" and "shapes", as an example. I may seem like I'm arguing or trying to convince you but I'm not. I'm trying to get my point across, in hopes that you can illustrate where CAGED fails a player. Of course CAGED does not cover every single aspect of the guitar, agree with you. But I don't think many people have that position. I appreciate the interaction.

[@curiousguitarist]

@@Kevinschart I agree with your take on it, but all the other instruments use musical patterns generated by theoretical principles that are not tied to 5 specific major chord shapes that occur on the guitar. Those same mathematical patterns occur on the guitar of course, but go WAY beyond this 5 shapes. As a teacher I see all of them, not just those 5 shapes. When I learned major chord architecture on the fretboard I learned it as 12 individual triads, each one capable of being altered into min, dim, sus, aug, as well as seeing the scale structures (not just major) nested around them. There’s just so much more freedom and higher fidelity available past CAGED. But one last time, CAGED is a very valuable system that allows guitarists to begin to see their instrument. I believe it is a great GREAT start. And I don’t see this exchange as argumentative at all, I love it.

[@Triumphcruiser]

For me the caged system teaches the octave shapes once you have them you can work out the position of the other notes relative to them . For example flat 3 flat seven whatever you don't need to know the note names just where they sit relative to the root and thats it .

[@curiousguitarist]

TRUTH!!! Thanks for the comment TC!

[@danalanfranke]

When is your next triad course. I have missed every time you start it

[@joycegrove5602]

Registration for this course opens late August, then will be run in October :)

[@curiousguitarist]

And it looks like I'll have to run it 3 times in 2024 :)

[@waynegram8907]

CHRIS, the next step is "implying chord progressions" into the guitar lead motifs using the major CAGED and minor CAGED. If you don't imply any chord changes to the lead motif licks it will sound boring and entry level. Dominant 7 CAGED system is also used in blues rock very often which you can show a bunch of examples of using it.

[@curiousguitarist]

I believe at that point CAGED is meaningless :)

[@waynegram8907]

@@curiousguitarist it's non-tonal meaning no key signature implied. That is my main point it sounds entry level beginner level when the guitar solo lead line is not implying chord changes and not implying key signatures.

[@theelderskatesman4417]

but you can use caged with minor chords. plus caged octaves to root notes for both major and minor up and down the fretboard. for me, that was the most effective way to 'map the fretboard '.

[@curiousguitarist]

It is a great system to get that initial map, for sure. But octaves are just octaves...they aren't CAGED specifically. Mapping them is also a very very good start into seeing the design of the instrument.

[@theelderskatesman4417]

each of the chord shapes contains a distinctive octave shape that can be mapped against scale patterns so that roots can be seen instantly. there are many maps of this on the web. also, the fact that major caged doesn't cover minor is exactly the same as major arpeggios not being minor, isn't it? a moot point (just to be clear, I think you are one of the best youtube tutors, but in this case, I think you do not get the full power of the caged system.)

[@curiousguitarist]

@@theelderskatesman4417 I totally get it, but it’s locked to a guitarist if point of view. For example, I learned all of this context at conservatory and none of the open chords was ever mentioned. This is not a CAGED system bash, it’s just that the scaffolding has always been there, long before CAGED was marketed. And learning the triads and octaves simply carries no baggage along with it. I knew this would be a provocative subject :)

[@jayp6990]

My brain seems to gravitate to CAGED and with that make better sense of the instrument. Within each of those 5 'frameworks' once you also practice the intervals in each you learn target notes, the relationship of the modes, pentatonic forms, triads, all other chords, arpeggios, & probably a million other things my rudimentary mind hasn't thought of or discovered yet. Excluding CAGED, what is the alternative, 3NPS (which to me seems like octave displacement CAGED)? 🤷‍♂ Granted, I don't have any real formal training so I could be all wet, just seems like the 'correct' method for me. In any event, thank you for your insight & experience. 👍

[@curiousguitarist]

I learned everything in the CAGED system and more by studying triads and octaves, then overlaying the major and pentatonic scales to that scaffolding. It's all really the same stuff, CAGED just doesn't get you all the way there, but it is a great GREAT starting point!

[@Mets_xx_Fan_01]

Great video

[@StratsRUs]

CAGED is a watercolor blur.Triads make the view sharper and clearer.

[@curiousguitarist]

I love that...what a great metaphor.

[@splashesin8]

❤😊 Hi Chris!

[@curiousguitarist]

Hello!

[@JaysonT1]

That's some good Guitarcheology

[@maxwellblakely7952]

The G shape is much easier if you drop the E and A strings and just use the high E as a root note, then playing a Gm chord becomes much easier.

[@omnitrac1024]

A bit dumb to think caged doesn’t have minor chords and I mean the diminished is simply the 7th in the scale for help understanding the transition of major to minor C-A-G-E-D = major chords d-g-e-a-C = minor chords

[@curiousguitarist]

Thanks for the context!

[@georgerichardson7728]

Caged wasn't "designed" by anyone Chris, i don't quite agree, its just how the instrument is composed and interpreted.

[@curiousguitarist]

Thanks for the comment, George. CAGED is definitely an interpretation, and it has been deliberately formatted for guitarists, by guitarists and educators over time. I think the system is wonderful for guitarists who are hungry for the "why" of the instrument as it gives them an easy start. It just does not go far enough for the very curious ones. I'm not against it at all, I celebrate it. In fact students who come to me knowing CAGED have a huge time advantage over those that don't. But I do not teach it as I believe there are much faster and more holistic approaches.

[@georgerichardson7728]

Thanks for the reply, i get what you are coming from, my view is that no one sat down and thought it out really, its just "there" so why not use it as a springboard anyway! Regards ! @@curiousguitarist

[@curiousguitarist]

@@georgerichardson7728 totally agree!

[@CarlWinter-oy8uf]

What about F ? AND. B ---/. there are 7 chords --not 5 !

[@curiousguitarist]

Some of these shapes share architecture, A and G for example, and C and D. These structures anchor on one another to form single shapes when you really dive into them. This is why breaking these larger shapes down to the core element of triads is actually the highest fidelity view of the entire matrix. Fun!

[@garyeggleton1142]

I was under the impression that the CAGED system was all about triads, every video where someone says that the system is insufficient, and what they say to practice instead is still Caged to me

[@curiousguitarist]

Indeed, CAGED reveals a lot and if that system is sufficient for you, then by all means USE it. I'm a huge fan of leveraging what works for you. My point here is that CAGED inserts a layer of reference that is unnecessary and only increases cognitive load for short term recognition. Eventually, no matter HOW you see it, you end up looking past CAGED.

[@johndelaney2957]

FUC$ED IF I KNOW, struggle a bit with what your saying but i'm sure it makes sense sooner or later.

[@curiousguitarist]

It does. Focus on the major scale for a while, and harmonize it. You'll never be able to unsee it after that.

[@johndelaney2957]

@curiousguitarist OK thanks Chris.

[@curiousguitarist]

@@johndelaney2957 keep me posted...I'm curious to hear when the light bulb goes on!

[@johndelaney2957]

@curiousguitarist OK mate no worries I'll have to get into it, the best i can.

[@CarlWinter-oy8uf]

Still dont understand CAGED SYSTEM --BEEN PLAYING FOR 40 YRS

[@curiousguitarist]

CAGED takes a week and a half to understand, but you must commit to a study, and if you’re not used to that it can be difficult to introduce rigor into a “hobby” that hasn’t featured focused study, and instead might rely on casual discovery instead.

[@tpan17able]

Triads definitely are the best… for a better understanding of the guitar…

[@curiousguitarist]

TRUTH!

[@franklynch5865]

I think you are portraying a limited version of the CAGED system. CAGED covers minor shapes and it also highlights the use of partial shapes. Triads are part of CAGED, the extension of CAGED shapes or partial shaped triads into pent and other scales is also covered in CAGED. A video depicting CAGED as nothing more than cowboy chords moved up doesn't fly in 2023..

[@curiousguitarist]

Whenever the letters CAGED are used, no matter how much you attach to it, you are applying a guitaristic mask to the information. That’s my only point, no need to rush to CAGED’s defense, it will survive because it’s a GREAT system. But it’s a system, on top of another system. No other instrument needs this kind of crutch to get its players on board. But alas guitarists seem to be slow to get on the bus and understand what it is they are actually doing. Again, CAGED is a GREAT start. Just don’t allow yourself to stay there too long.

[@franklynch5865]

Its really down to how you interpret CAGED. If you stick to the first stage of learning the major shapes then of course its limited. If next you think of the intervals in the shapes, the triads in and around partial shapes. The extension into pents per chords and other scales. As soon as you start saying its an 'entry level' system or similar then people will bypass it and thats my issue. I think its a really valuable tool. Its not something you learn and ditch once you know about triads, its all connected. Other than that i did like your lesson.

[@curiousguitarist]

@@franklynch5865 first off I hope this back and forth isn’t coming across as confrontational. I really appreciate it. I don’t see CAGED as entry level, but CAGED, by nature, is a positional system, a roadmap, a scaffolding, that is rooted in guitaristic context. and so while you can “attach” anything you’d like to it, and probably be successful, it will always be a membrane in between you and the information until you release it. My opinion on this is based on the fact that I knew music theory principals, based on intervallic application very well before CAGED was introduced to me. So I found it to be completely useless because I had a system for applying new information to the fretboard that functioned without the need for that CAGED context. I had moved beyond it by never learning it in the first place. I have no idea what your context is, and again I will cite the systems value to players that are new to understanding musical structure, but having seen and taught many methods including CAGED, I can only tell you that my preference is not to bog guitarists down with it. And in fact, CAGED reveals itself to guitarists as they proceed to incorporate musical concepts as a contextual “novelty”. It a great system for the value it brings. Thanks for this great back and forth!

[@CarlWinter-oy8uf]

Look --take the F Chord ---on its fret ----slide it up to G ---sounds perfect --slide to A major --sounds great --slide to B --,C. ,D. up the neck -right to 12 th fret --ALL SOUND GREAT -----FORGET THE STUPID CAGED SYSTEM ----use F MAJOR CHORD INSTEAD ! (notice its not CAGED ) !

[@curiousguitarist]

That’s a really cool method, but for folks who really hunger to understand the fretboard in deeper detail, your idea doesn’t provide and context as to why that might work. It’s to deeper context that allows for an equal depth of understanding. Great comment!

[@CarlWinter-oy8uf]

You take a g G shape (G CHORD )then move it UP. -- until it becomes a C ?------Does not sound right ---Cmajor is on th 8 th - 10 th fret --you fall short !

[@curiousguitarist]

That G shape sounds perfect to me as a C on the 8th fret...be sure you're barring the DG and B strings on the 7th fret to keep the intervals from the G shape consistent! Thanks for the comment.

[@MichaelFox-cc8of]

The CAGED system also teaches minor chords. It is not as easy to learn but it is doable.

[@curiousguitarist]

@@MichaelFox-cc8of indeed! Thanks for the context!

[@MichaelFox-cc8of]

@@curiousguitarist So I think I had a small breakthrough while studying CAGED. I found a chart that featured all the caged forms with the intervals of the notes marked. Then I noticed the root, 3rd and fifth always line up the same way in respect to each other. Now I realize I can find my triads anywhere on the guitar. I really just need to know my fretboard to find the roots (I am fairly good at that now) and realize the b string moves notes up a fret. So, I guess I can play triads anywhere and actually with a little practice I can play a major scale anywhere on the guitar without being locked into certain scale forms that only start on the 6th or 5th strings. Am I on the right track Chris?

[@curiousguitarist]

@@MichaelFox-cc8of you are SO on the right track! That’s the road to full on fretboard freedom sir!!

[@MichaelFox-cc8of]

@@curiousguitarist Awesome, I will get on board with your training soon. You are a great instructor.

[@georgechristiansen6785]

CAGED is so incredibly over-rated. Unplayable shapes. Needless translating (E chord in the D shape). But the biggest issue is the mindless pattern thinking. And then you're still left with only major chord tones. I think triads then expanding to major and minor pentatonics from those same triads then to filling in the rest of the notes based upon key centers, all while learning what the intervals and notes are is a far better way than CAGED. Maybe less immediate gratification than CAGED or other mindless pattern methods, but you really know the neck and the intervals when you get done.

[@curiousguitarist]

Truth

[@rbmoman]

and stay foolish :7

[@curiousguitarist]

All the time!

[@bradleyborlase7251]

Patreon is what I want. Help me get there.

[@curiousguitarist]

I see you signed up, I’ll message you there.