Is Sumo Deadlifting Cheating?

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[@OmarIsuf]

How can it be wrong if it feels so right!?!

[@tylersebs3373]

OmarIsuf eat butt, it's the "dark side"

[@jasperm.8093]

Although Omar is memeing, it does feel very right

[@thomaswalsh5048]

More power to the sumo 💪

[@МартинДиклиев]

But it looks wrong

[@МартинДиклиев]

@Jeeses99 I mean that it looks unpleasant

[@NickKarlin7010]

Do you tell your parents you pull sumo?

[@calgarybarbell]

I’m working up the courage... 😕

[@nickt3169]

Have you tried praying the sumo away?

[@nllc9779]

Nick T 😆

[@NickKarlin7010]

Nick T I actually tried sending my kid to a conventional camp once and I found him pulling sumo 2 weeks after coming home

[@nickfas1429]

If sumo is respectable then put it in your resume.

[@eeervin3]

Deadlifting is cheating altogether: have some proper range of motion and snatch that barbell right above your head! :D

[@VortechBand]

Snatch is cheating, as you're using momentum and jumping under the bar for extra benefit. Be a man and do a combined deadlift + bicep curl + overhead press in one motion :)

[@MrInzombia]

VortechBand lmao bicep curl into a slow and control strict over headpress, then do some tricep extensions while the weight is up there for a few good reps before putting it back down.

[@takodafreeman1668]

@@MrInzombia after you tricep extend it, put it on your back and start squatting it

[@jeremyh1857]

@@takodafreeman1668 after you done squatting, do some good mornings.

[@Porkylily]

You better stop now

[@brownerthemonk]

"he's super long and gangly and weird" hahah.... crease!!

[@RoyalzDevil]

as grand daddy Boris Sheiko would say, "it's an empty discussion, only weak people think sumo is cheating"

[@UnicornsForPresident]

Or maybe people who see that more often than not a person will sumo more than they do conventional think sumo is cheating and it has nothing to do with them being weak

[@jg-yy5lr]

@Gore4ever FulciLives you sound like a weak lifter lol

[@Kwert]

Gore4ever FulciLives you should tell that to Ed Coan

[@bigmcdick4916]

Jordan You clearly don’t see the joke in that dudes comment

[@bigmcdick4916]

Jordan that Gore4Ever dude, the things he says are worded so ridiculously he’s 100% satire

[@susunsns]

Sumo doesn't tax my back and allows me to fully use my legs, it's the only way to fully enjoy deadlifting for me without feeling like SHIT afterwards

[@TheDdty]

Yeah but your literally killing your back! And your not getting as much of a pull!!!

[@joshmonty3095]

Sumo is cheating in strongman competitions. Besides that, it's just another way to lift.

[@calgarybarbell]

I would agree fully! It’s against the rules!

[@tylersebs3373]

I dont think its cheating its just not allowed

[@hookgrip4jesus310]

Sebastian Tyler *facepalm* and the Darwin Award for Biggest Dunce goes to you, my good sir! Conglaturation! How does it feel to know you’re leading the way in human de-evolution?

[@tylersebs3373]

Ryan Newton how is that human de-evolotion? sumo and "cheating" is a discussion. and I wasnt wrong, I just didn't comply to the way you want it. which is ignorant and arrogant.

[@hookgrip4jesus310]

Sebastian Tyler Go back and read your own comment first buddy. I said what I said because you clearly contradicted yourself in the statement that sumo “isn’t cheating, it’s just not allowed (in strongman)”. When referring to the legality of the subject in question, “cheating” and “not allowed” are synonymous. Hence, I made a (slightly) low ball joke about your stupidity being a part of the reason humans are “de-evolving”. Congrats, you’re 0 for 2 on comments today. Better luck next time

[@MrBravo1990dk]

Even though i exclusively do conv, i don't get why it would be cheating when the stance is legal in competition. It would be like saying a runner is cheating because he has longer legs. And if used for hypertrophy purposes it's just a matter of what muscles you want to work more, and hence doesn't apply.

[@Leo.witchere]

no it's not like saying a runner is cheating because he has longer legs, like at all ; we never talked about physique, but technique

[@MrBravo1990dk]

Im merely speaking in terms of utilizing an advantage.

[@Leo.witchere]

you should be merely talking about technique, but you just were speaking about physique with your "runners with longer legs"

[@MrBravo1990dk]

Considering that people often utilize on or the other(sumo vs conv), depending on their physique, then how are they not related?

[@Leo.witchere]

I don't considerate this in that debate, I mean : in competition based debate

[@transmundanemusic]

I love it. The "sumo is cheating" crowd don't even lift, let's be honest.

[@transmundanemusic]

Very articulate. Don’t go using all the big words you know at once.

[@transmundanemusic]

Prob cause you can't pull sumo for shit. Am I right? You've tried and failed? Miserably?

[@transmundanemusic]

what's with your homosexuality obsession? A little suspect if you ask me. Oh, and btw, I train both. So, all your failed attempts at sumo pulls have given you nightmares, ya? That's ok man, not everyone knows how to pull sumo. Don't beat yourself up.

[@transmundanemusic]

You've gone and done it: used all the big words you know in one sentence. It's not a good look man. And I don't believe you deadlift weight, at all. But please! Please accept me, oh lord of the deadlift!

[@transmundanemusic]

I don't care if you train for reps and pump lol I care if you can move weight, cause you're talking like you can. And you know Bryce has set records in both styles, ya? Have you set any records? I already know the answer to that....

[@HoodSwami]

4:55 Lmao he measured like 3cm away from where directly below the plate was

[@jrodtopo]

Yeah, that was some major parallax error.

[@helphowdoinputusername3571]

If you use trigonometry that's not even a 0.5cm difference. tan^-1(3/34)= 5.6 degrees 34cm*cos(5.6) ≃ 33.9cm So 🤷‍♂️

[@esbenrasmussen2419]

You need to let the measuring tape hang to get an accurate result. In some cases, you measured at a steep angle like at 4:52

[@nicolasbraun2642]

You know, back when weightlifters started squat snatching in the 50s and 60s the splitters never cried "cheating" because the rules don't say split (or squat). If you can lift more within the rule you win. Disagreeing about a legal win is called bad sportsmanship, as I understand it, and it isn't even up for debate except in their minds.

[@victormanin2074]

It is not the same thing. In weightlifting the bar still ends up at the same spot ROM isn't different just the way it gets there. Where as here Sumo has a shorter rom and as many people said just look at the IPF under 105kg how many pull sumo and how many pull conventional.

[@nicolasbraun2642]

Victor Manin The range of motion of the first/second pull of a squat snatch is about 5cm shorter than the split. Everybody accepts the fact you need to pull the bar higher to get under it because the aft leg needs to go really far to reach final catch position and it takes a bit longer to get into position for the catch, so it needs to be higher. Because the range of motion from the floor to final position is the same (with the same lifter) doesn't mean the distance traveled was also the same...remember in WL the bar can change direction in a good lift and it does. Look at how much extra ROM there is when someone catches a clean too high and comes down 11cm to bottom before coming back up. You are certainly right about the comparison not being a terrific one about lifting mechanics; my comment is more about the fact the rules define what cheating is, not what technique is easiest for you. WLs also only started squatting (in competition) once the rules stopped specifying the grip width for the lift(1946) and squat snatching (with a wide grip) became a legal option: it was no longer 'cheating".

[@coomcake]

Going back further, classic snatches were not even allowed to touch the body.

[@UltraWhale]

I think sumo and conventional are 2 different lifts and shouldnt be compared. Change my mind.

[@atruescotsmanuth2481]

Should high bar and low bar squats not be compared aswell? Both use very different muscle groups

[@UltraWhale]

@@atruescotsmanuth2481 i would say it would be more like comparing a front squat to a back squat

[@atruescotsmanuth2481]

@@UltraWhale No its not. Nobody ever front squats more than they back squat. Its not gonna happen, whereas many people do in fact deadlift conventional more than sumo.

[@UltraWhale]

@@atruescotsmanuth2481 ye thats a good point tbh

[@bisonhawk1]

I train both honestly, I've heard it said, that Sumo is a performance move whereas conventional is a developmental movement. My Sumo deadlift is about 40 lb higher than my conventional.

[@pmodd]

Honestly, it's not difficult to figure out the context of what people mean when they say that sumo is cheating; they're talking about how strength is regarded in the real world. If you need to pick up an engine block or a chunk of concrete and move it somewhere, are you going to pick it up in a sumo position and waddle like a crab 20 meters across the shop? No, that would be the dumbest shit ever and you'll probably bust an abductor in the process. What would actually happen is that you would position yourself to get as much bend in the knees as possible and lift to a standing position so you can move the object in question, which is like a practical version of a conventional deadlift, since most heavy objects aren't bars.

[@JW_Haze]

So, you just prove it’s a different movement. Perhaps it should get its own category.

[@yorkoxmaul66]

ever heard of mv0.5v^2=mgh in high school physics? what is the h I wonder.

[@nickfas1429]

Right

[@ethanlewis7635]

Decreasing the ROM of a powerlift decreases the muscular involvement of the powerlift

[@mr.facebookangryfacereacto8283]

Yes among many other things. But dont start arguing with these powerlifting junkies. You can see this guy doesn't have much longer in the game at this rate. He's already wearing himself down. Its his lower sciatic region now, but next will be his shoulder, etc...

[@ethanlewis7635]

I was arguing in favor of Sumo dumbass.

[@johnyrodriguez6619]

Mike Stoklasa You're the dumbass then.

[@MrInzombia]

Ethan Lewis Summo actually decreases range of motion. By spreading your legs apart like a stripper, youve already decreased the distance the bar has to travel by 3-4 inches

[@nicokorkiamaki2991]

I still respect conventional pullers more. It looks cooler and it requires more raw strength.

[@mspawitra8421]

I dont know why, but my sumo dl isnt as strong as my conv dl. It feels really awkward deadlift in sumo stance for me. I think both has different cue and technique

[@gabriellenicholls6712]

Satya Pawitra Sumo isn’t easier for everyone. People with different leverages perform the one that they prefer personally. Anyone who says sumo is cheating just doesn’t understand how leverages work. Use the style that is most comfy for you 👍🏻

[@nickfas1429]

@@gabriellenicholls6712 wrong

[@heathjohnson2575]

If you don’t pull a deadlift the same way Eddie Hall does then it doesn’t count. The Beast is the deadlift master

[@calgarybarbell]

Oh you mean with a whippy bar, straps, a deadlift suit, and hitching? Lol

[@michaellopez-lq5fn]

If sumo is unfair then so is having short femurs

[@jessetamburri5379]

Cheating = of course not More efficient = yes I like conventional for hypertrophy and sumo for powerlifting. After all its all about moving maximal weight and as Chris Duffin said "I outlift guys that are stronger than me all the time". This is just my two cents, I like both (not trying to be diplomatic its just my experience). Love the video!

[@DisasterRasta]

Easier = yes

[@Caleb-lu3zl]

How about we just have separate competitions for real dead lifts and competitions for short people that do sumo

[@alexisvnc]

Look at the percentage of lifters pulling sumo vs conventional at IPF worlds, especially all the weight classes up to 105kg/230lb. Now answer this question "Is sumo easier for most of the population?" Spoiler alert: yes

[@calgarybarbell]

Sure. I wouldn’t argue with you at all on that point.

[@yewtewb3628]

How many IPF boiz and girls are max-width benchers? Same thing.

[@andyc16us]

@@calgarybarbell So what do you think it is about Brett Gibbs that he seems to prefer, and do better pulling conventionally? I'm wondering if it's longer arms or short tibias or something, but I don't know, as I'm not an expert. Any thoughts?

[@tonytaylor5165]

Depends some people cannot do shumo well at heavier loads as it becomes more 2 part lift from after the bar gets past your shin going towards knee and regular restanceing after a rep some issues don't really come across on conventional

[@nickfas1429]

Thats the point.The arguement with sumo vs conventional isnt that sumo isnt a legit or good movement/exercise.The problem is that pulling sumo against conventional its not logical cause they 2 different movements.They hv different range of motion and the joints are on different angles.Meanimg that they use the muscle groups in different ways.Its like comparing you incline bench press with your dumbbell press.

[@travish325]

Range of motion is entirely different. Either all competitors lift sumo, or they all lift conventional. That's the only way to be fair.

[@chuckdenomolos7359]

Not a powerlifter here but one version looks like it uses your back and the other looks like a wide stance squat , isn’t that two different lifts?

[@MatiasStrengthCoach]

This was a great video Mr Krawfish. Like the translation to cold numbers as opposed to opinions (which is great aswell, but this just gives a different feedback)

[@CodPlayerNo77]

Thank you for using metric measurements!

[@clownpocket]

If the movements are so different, they should be competed seperately.

[@calgarybarbell]

The ROM is quite different, but I don’t think the movements are. Should wide grip/narrow grip bench be competed separately? What about wide stance vs narrow stance squats?

[@UnicornsForPresident]

If two men are the same strength and have the same leverages, the one that pulls sumo will almost always deadlift more. It's not cheating because it's legal but it definitely is advantageous and that's undeniable.

[@Leo.witchere]

Actually, there wasn't any discussion in this video ... Just a defensive talk

[@calgarybarbell]

Haha yes, my opinion is definitely slanted. But mostly because I think it’s kind of a non-issue. And yes, I do sometimes get triggered when people act silly about sumo deadlifting. I realize I was being snarky.

[@trevorbaker7168]

I think pulling sumo is the deadlift equivalent of arching your back excessively on bench... there's no doubt it makes the movement easier in the sense that you're moving it less distance, but you also have a very different leverage that can work for or against you depending on your body type and training regimen. For example, I actually pull signigicantly less sumo than conventional despite less ROM. A possible solution would be categorizing conventional and sumo separately, but I think that would unnecessarily complicate things

[@denvergriffin5555]

Sumo is to conventional as an ATG narrow-stance squat is to a wide-stance PL depth squat. Yeah, the distance the bar travels changes. Good point that it has nothing to do with "cheating."

[@marshallore6869]

The Sumo Deadlift is generally easier for women because they have better mobility and stronger legs and hips relative to their back. You've seen women with big quads and glutes, but you've probably never seen a women with big traps and lats. It is of note that the Straddle Deadlift and the Behind the Back Deadlift are currently banned in all federations.

[@nickkastoris8030]

And if those same women have short backs, which means erector strength becomes less of an issue, they set records conventional. See: Kim Walford, Marisa Inda, Jessica Buettner. Traps and lats don't move weight in the deadlift. Hips do, regardless of stance.

[@apuuvah]

I think I'ma do conventional, deficit conventional (with and without bands), conventional off blocks (2"), sumo. And... ass-to-grass (ie. weightlifting) squats, 45 degree weighted hyperextensions, barbell rows, T-bar rows. That just about covers it all.

[@maximalstar1998]

Actually, I'd tend to say that sump benefits more to taller guys than shorter : taller dudes tend to have some long limbs, and being able to pull sumo allows to have so much better leverages such as lower hip hinge, and this multiplicates the advantage that is having long arms since they're not counteracted by the long legs

[@nicfish93]

Sick vid. I reckon measuring hip and knee angle differences could also be cool for this experiment.

[@CU08]

I literally only hear people crying when metric isn't being used ... never the other way around.

[@MrXeyd]

I want to preface this by saying that I agree with the core of your argument that sumo isn't "cheating and takes longer to master technically" and should be legal, especially on a stiff bar. However 2 data points does not a trend make and I think framing the discussion with such low hanging fruit wording like "is it cheating" takes away from the more nuanced observation that not all pulls are made equal, and people who point this out are often called haters. It definitely seems to make little difference on an Eleiko stiff bar which is stiffer and shorter, but imagine one of those 150-160lb guys we see pulling 6+ plates toes to plates on a deadlift bar. The range of motion after the slack is pulled is so small in that case (straps exaggerate this), that that sumo pull is in a different league entirely to the same guy pulling convy, especially since we know smaller guys almost always have to use a narrow convy stance, lengthening their convy ROM. In other words a 70kg guy pulling 260kg in that setup might struggle with 220 convy on a stiff bar. The difference in ROM there would be hooooge, and I'd like to see a measurement of the case described. TL:DR Yes sumo is and should be legal, especially on stiff bars, it's a much more technically demanding lift than convy, but i think the shorter/smaller you are the less you can say it's an equal lift to the convy. They're just different.

[@calgarybarbell]

Oh we’re definitely not saying that our measurements mean anything. We know N=2 is not a statistically significant sample size. And the whole ‘is it cheating’ bit was just to open the conversation.

[@meocats]

its cheating if you call it deadlifting. you must call it just 'sumo deadlift'. Like how you would call it 'behind the back deadlift" and not a "deadlift" that you did behind the back.

[@merynpeach9727]

It's interesting that your conventional rom was exactly the same as big d's sumo rom. Surely in this situation it can't be classed as cheating if all you're doing by pulling sumo is bringing the distance you have to move the weight in line with other competitors. Besides, I've never seen someone who benches with a wide grip be called a cheat because they're reducing their rom

[@nickkastoris8030]

Does range of motion actually matter? I think that measuring moment arms to the hip and back along the axes of their respective levers perpendicular to gravity in the start position (or wherever they're longest, if your knees drift back) would give you a much clearer picture of the differences for a sport of singles. We're not measuring mechanical work in powerlifting, we're measuring force output and torque. This thought also sorta justifies the divide between powerlifting and strongman (also crossfit). If you're doing reps, range of motion matters a LOT, and strongman (also crossfit) frequently have max rep deadlifts as events. Powerlifters really shouldn't give a shit about ROM, since all that really matters is if you're producing enough force to keep the bar going at the mechanically weakest part of the range of motion, and sumo doesn't give you a favourable answer to that question.

[@calgarybarbell]

I completely agree that a single measurement of N=2 lifters doesn’t give us even close to a full picture of anything really. The measurements were simply a curiosity for Dillon and I, and a decent talking point.

[@nickkastoris8030]

Senpai noticed me. :D Yeah, for sure an interesting start, especially given how close the percentage differences are. I'm afraid that just seeing ROM differences without any other analysis is more fuel for the "sumo is BS" crowd, though. :/

[@popurm]

Nick Kastoris well, well, well.

[@popurm]

Your comment has been reported. ROM is the end all and be all! Jk

[@nickkastoris8030]

Mr Cripples, in powerlifting, we measure a proxy for force output: pounds on a bar. Mechanical work matters a HUGE deal in training decisions, but the sport isn't about mechanical work. It's about pounds on a bar and whether or not you can move them within the constraints of the competitive movements. Distance is not a variable that you're scored on within the sport.

[@TheGlaenzchen]

Hey Guys, nice vid on a still controversial topic. I do Sumo, I am not great in Powerlifting, but i know a thing or two about mechanics. If u just focus on lifting hight u r not geting the whole picture. u might ask a someone who can do physics or isn mechanical engineer and do another video considering the difference between "work" and "power". I dont want to go into detail but i think it can be another interessting followup-video for the upcoming hate against this pro-sumo-vid. Furthermore u can consider the direction ur legs are pushing compared to conventional. Convy is more in line with gravity, sumo is less. U can feel the loss of force in the friction of your shoes to the ground (doesnt appear out of noware), which doesnt accure in convy. just some nice things to think, talk and hate about :) keep the work up guys

[@Alex-po3vn]

What about muscle recruitment? Might be a good topic to talk about and could tell us some interesting things like the difference in the muscle mass used in the performance.

[@Sidhu.7.9]

Correct me if I’m wrong… sumo works your back less by shifting focus to quads and glutes, it’s like adding another squat movement to the meet resulting in lifters with a strong lower body and shit upper body to dominate. If deadlifts were conventional only, winners would be more well rounded, stronger athletes

[@talllifts174]

I just want to add that it really depends where are you stronger genetically. Somebody can actually be weaker on sumo how is that cheating....

[@hardys1664]

Conventional is hard on the back and when some people start getting back issues they switch to Sumo. Some do Sumo since they think they won't get back issue and get the height leverage. I don't think IPF is gonna change their rule as they did for bench press recently.

[@xbunnythiefx]

If range of motion was everything, shorter guys should be pulling record numbers compared to their taller counterparts.

[@fromeveryting29]

It's just a slightly different movement/option for people that might work for different builds. I know for sure that conventional is awkward as hell for me. Just can't reach my potential with that lifting technique.

[@swedesruleallothers]

I can't even physically get into conventional without lifting from blocks. My back is completely rounded at the start position with any weight. So sumo all the way.

[@Lowrider75]

I am 1.73 tall (hello from the rest of the world, hehehe) and with "normal" leverages and after some time I switched to sumo. Why? In conventional I just cannot place my back flat and brace properly, and I found that in sumo I get rock solid at the whole push/pull. Maybe I have hexbar every now and then, but not conventional for me. Sumo is safer for me. Period.

[@ethangoss-dickie8544]

Personally, my pr's are about the same for both, but I just feel more explosive when pulling conventional. My setup also feels significantly tighter.

[@lievliberant6019]

There's a clear pattern that USUALLY more weight can be pulled sumo. Regardless, I wouldn't consider it a cheat any more than I'd begrudge another lifter for having longer arms than me. If I, as a strictly conventional puller, set out to best another lifter who pulls sumo, my M.O. is to pull more weight, full stop. No excuses about technique or leverages, just pull more weight. Or don't, accept defeat and give due credit.

[@katayamakinen]

Finally! Someone is talking in cm and not in inches... Liked & Subscribed!

[@gamingseries7608]

the conclusion has nothing to do with experiment

[@calgarybarbell]

ok

[@mossoconnor4417]

Personally I consider them different lifts, and I think that they should be judged differently.

[@gavinheyneman7994]

I tested it. I did it for the first time and it is easier than conventional.

[@Kapppa]

5:06 there's no way Dillon's normal deadlift stance is that narrow...

[@PrimalStrength2020]

Two different lifts to me. If you say my Max deadlift is ___. I'd assume your are talking about your conventional. If your max on sumo is higher, which it probably is, you should say it's your sumo. They are different lifts because they stress different muscles. I have friends that prefer the sumo because they have had a back injury and it puts less stress on their lower backs. I'm not a competition guy so I can't really comment on that. That's more of playing within the rules to be more effective.

[@tonytaylor5165]

Only differences one more quad dominant than hipfelxor dominant better quad and glute activation in shumo but some find shumo harder on heavier loads as people shot up legs to quick get nowere with lifting bar up and shumo can become bit of 2 part movement not a 1part like conventional

[@lyzardkyng9077]

My main point is always that deadlift in some way represents a functional lift for being strong in "real life". If I pick a log or a heavy object I'm certainly not lifting it sumo style. Sumo deadlift is clearly taking advantage of mechanics but is in no way "cheating " in regards to power lifting competitions.

[@SaintHarney]

Rules need to change, same with bench width rules

[@shortycareface9678]

I often pick up heavy objects in "real life", sumo style.

[@SliPsHoTiFc]

The answer, it will probably help you lift more but it will take you years to master it and in that time your strength has increased from all that practice. Sooo yes lifting more weights for a significant amount of time makes you stronger.... Shocker.

[@rockstarsmg3632]

Can someone answer me why have nearly all world record lifts been done conventional? If sumo is easier why dont those 6'6" giants pull sumo?

[@LakedaimonII]

They don't answer you. Sumo is an advanced technique like front squat compared vs back squat. I know, PL is PL and that's ok, but in a non competitive scenario learning and doing sumo and front is far superior and safer. Really safer. And that's what is important. Ah, chinup has more Rom then pullups, but they are easier. ROM means nothing.

[@ivan_9386]

Lower weight classes are using more sumo. When you are heavyweight than leverages are different and you lose mobility.

[@thatrespectablehuman1884]

@@ivan_9386 people ask these questions because natural interest trends towards "WHAT IS THE BIGGEST NUMBER" for most people and they seem to forget that weight classes even exist or have records, so they just don't check

[@basmca1]

well that's easy. 1: Many records are in fact sumo, and every year a larger % of records are set sumo. 2: Sumo hasn't been populair for very long. 3: Sumo is banned in strongman, so you'll never see those guys do it.

[@ajud24]

This dude measured the distance of how high the weigh goes, and calls it an experiment.

[@calgarybarbell]

Yeah dude

[@GeorgWilde]

Anything can be "not cheating" when the "relevant people" arbitrarily decide it is not cheating. You see the range of motion difference. The only reason why it is not cheating is because some "relevant people" said so. This defense of summo deadlift is like saying "So you question the rules? Le's focus on what is the problem for you in here. You see? The rules say its not a problem... "

[@madeulook29]

I think the only valid argument is that sumo and conventional use different muscles so you could argue its not comparative to compete with them considered the same

[@nickkastoris8030]

Escamilla et. al. (2002) found that, though specific muscle activity was different between the stances (as measured by EMG), all the same muscles were being used. Just different degrees of emphasis. It's not like your adductors don't fire just because your knees are already close together.

[@madeulook29]

Nick Kastoris understandable and it opens the door for people not built for conventional. I have nothing against sumo, and people seem to forget that all the heaviest deadlifts in the world are conventional l.

[@nickkastoris8030]

madeulook29 Mmm. Which isn't to discount your point - the lifts definitely feel a bit different, but when push comes to shove, they're far more similar than different. And yeah, the Magnusson factor is a bit of a big deal hahah

[@christopheralvarez6076]

Interested in how you'd feel about bench press where those ppl have that huge arch and barely move the bar a couple of inches if that. You can't tell me THATS not cheating...

[@skye1355]

Christopher Alvarez in DL bar plate width is the stopping factor. Can't put your feet past plates, right? In BP flexibility can be trained to achieve a sky high arch

[@joolsgrommers1466]

"All in metric..." Love it!

[@3dwaffle338]

I don't know why some people say it's cheating, it's all about your structure. I am 6ft.1' tall but I lift more conventional because of my legs and torso length.

[@josecorreia4156]

That whole video just to be indecisive at the end , thanks for not answering the question.

[@TheBmxadam]

I would just say what the lord of hyip drahve would say: sumo is not cheating, but in a competitive setting it's just too different to the conventional, and thus it doesn't make sense to allow both in a competition.

[@nickkraw1]

It’s not even ROM, there’s just so much less torque on the lower back that it’s easier for most people. It’s cheating in Strongman and not cheating in powerlifting. The question is whether it ought to be allowed or not, in either sport. There is a similar debate about wether jerking instead of pushpressing or excessive hitching on the deadlift should be allowed in Strongman or not, and whether those things are “cheating”.

[@cloutm_anager8262]

The benefits of sumo vs conventional are based on body proportions and whether you are using a deadlift bar. If you have short legs and torso with long arms and a deadlift bar, there is no reason why you can’t break records at small weight classes (as seen over and over by short tenured lifters now). Conventional deadlift seems to be for people who have a mixture of factors for why they can’t overcome the more awkward posture of a sumo deadlift. If you can execute proper sumo lifting form because your body type, you can see differences up to 50% of lifting totals. This is why people see certain individuals do sumo and say that it’s cheating. Some people just have the right body proportions to sumo and yes that’s un fair… I would like to see different divisions. Everyone can conventional deadlift but not everyone can sumo deadlift. Makes it feel like cheating for people who can’t.

[@tashakamikarkori]

I personally don't think it's cheating. It's another style of pulling, just like the BTB, Jefferson, Zercher, etc. It is a little easier than the conventional, but takes more time to master. So just pull however you want and don't worry about what other people are doing or saying

[@stuartdoig3418]

I personally like Strongman rules requiring conventional, sumo lifting is still lifting, and those lifters deserve respect, but personally I like conventional more.

[@I_Might_B_Wrong]

Is arching on bench press cheating? Is wide stance squatting cheating? Nope. Make up for the ROM your comp lift is missing with your accessory work to stay injury free and lift for your max potential.

[@andreasviken2949]

Metric master race!

[@bagzy868]

fucking yes

[@brawnthroughbrains6740]

Sumo Haters: "I'm more hardcore than you because I pull conventional" Also Sumo Haters: "I'm gonna skip pause squats this week, they're too tough"

[@justinh8216]

@Gore4ever FulciLives lmao you're in every comment calling people fags. I prefer conventional too, but you sound like a dumb uneducated homophobe. Shut the fuck up, you probably pull sumo behind closed doors.

[@aroncartter]

love this instuctive video. so i was feeling guilty for being a cheater again just like how iam on a regular basis. but thanks i dont feel bad but rather feeling great. and i absolutely learned how to pull sumo from ur videos u posted in the past

[@Rob-du2fp]

As a lifetime conventional deadlifter, I completely agree it is not cheating... for powerlifting. However strengthlifting and strongman don't allow it. Except people can just as easily say hitching and straps are both cheating but they are allowed in strongman. I think the problem is people don't understand that different sports have different rules. It's cheating to use hands soccer, but if you try applying those rules in a basketball game, you will be the worst basketball player ever. Long story short; every sport has their rules. Stay within the rules of what your sport allows and ignore the haters.

[@grey6218]

I pull conventional cause it builds more strength than sumo. Greater rom more strength

[@tylersebs3373]

Supreme Leader but you still build the same amount of strength with both. like of you add 50kg to your deadlift conventional and 50kg to sumo that still only means 50kg. it's not like your conventional got 60kg more. also to eat butt is the true way of the competition

[@sycamorevalley8580]

I really don't see the point of this. Stand with your feet hip width apart, then stand sumo - you will notice you are shorter (unless your arms get shorter). You'd need to do a test of muscle activation or something - this test is literally just for show. I'm female and I'm really short. I am comfortable pulling conventional because it's what I learned on, but I do find I can lift more sumo. I do prefer a DL bar though.

[@chrism45]

Conventional dead, high bar ATg squat, close grip bech because they feel better. If I were to compete I'd pull sumo, squat lowbar and arch my back and get the widest grip on the bench.

[@yashrajpatel7653]

Yes but I’ll be a goddamn cheater because lifting more weight than everyone is dope

[@MrShenanigans28]

But what about people who deadlift more than you conventionally

[@a.i.l1074]

For the people saying conventional is "harder": straight leg deadlifts are harder too. Why don't you use them as your main movement?

[@nickfas1429]

Yes.Didnt even watch the video to answer.

[@thenoxpump4209]

if it is, why people do not pull 500kg as sumo? its easier right?

[@nickfas1429]

@@thenoxpump4209 Its cause people that are able to lift this numbers dont do or even train sumo,genius.Cause you know they are strongmen and in strongmen competitions sumo is banned.Also eddie and thor did 500s with straps not raw.Which means that it can not comparable with powerlifting competitions.

[@michaelgrech9763]

to be fair this is the same guy that proposed a minimum distance on the bench as a solution to extreme arching.

[@johnmadison4040]

Sumo deadlifting is really great if you want to look good on Instagram, not so much for being strong. BTW, my sumo is much better than my conventional and I only deadlift conventional because my interest is strength, not numbers.

[@lizardhero]

Could someone please explain to me the difference between a "stiff bar" and a "deadlift bar" and how a deadlift bar reduces range of motion? Never knew there different types of bars like this.

[@pattybaselines]

Deadlift bars are generally longer, whippier and have no center knurling.

[@greglindstrom1705]

i never gone half way through a deadlift and failed... the only part of a deadlift that matters is the first inch off the ground

[@naskrajuciszy]

range of motion argument is a red herring in itself, because if shortening the range of motion was cheating, arching in the bench and low bar squatting would also be considered cheating.

[@calgarybarbell]

I agree, that’s kind of the point we were trying to make. The measurements were mostly out of curiosity.

[@krossxeye660]

Sumo is still pulling, but it can be argued to be a different discipline of it. It's quad and glute dominant, and especially for people with lower back issues it is a lot easier. IMO having a favorite is not a crime, one will feel better than the other. Training both should be feasible however.

[@mariosgreca8511]

I think a good sumo variation is narrow stance sumo or frog stance/hybrid stance (ed coan style)..Its has a greater ROM than ordinary sumo.. problem solved people..stop hating on sumo :P

[@PassportG]

Good topic. I pull both styles. Although I do prefer conventional style.

[@Mongojack275]

Not cheating its just a different lift than conventional. Strongman doesnt recognize it but powrlifting does.

[@d3RrRp]

3:22 how is 62.5 - 50.5 = 11.5?

[@icejumperke]

#CALGARYSQUAAAAAAD 🔥 No, it’s not. 😒

[@lisaroselasaga]

Great video:) I wanna know why i can pull more doing conventional than i can sumo. For some reason i find the initial pull really hard to get off the floor. I even take my stance in quite a bit n make sure my joints r stacked.

[@mohawk3371]

Relatively weaker quads and stronger posterior chain. The hardest part of the Sumo is of the floor, so if your quad strength is insufficient to break it of the floor. Therefor shorter range of motion doesn't matter, and the back and hamstrings never really get a chance to engage and contribute significantly to the lift.

[@santosmichelena3519]

Whats harder? A wide grip pullup or a shoulder grip pullup?

[@populer208]

You could have just taken the difference between length of the leg times the cosine of the angle from neutral for each stance. This is because the difference in stances would affect lockout height of the legs or arms. 85.9 cm leg * (cos of 1.5° conventional stance- cos of 25.5° sumo stance) = 8.22 cm difference between stances. I also got these numbers based on the video, measuring pixels for height (proportioning them out with the known tape measure) and using an on screen protractor.

[@populer208]

Well, I guess you may grab the bar differently for each stance, which changes the lockout height too, but the same equation would work too: 63.0 cm arm * (cos of 3.8° conventional grip - cos of 1.2° sumo grip) = -0.1 cm difference (this formal assumes a bigger angle is better, but for arms, the smaller angle is better, so the answer is negative), so the difference is minimal in grip width.

[@Huwbacca]

Just clicked. I am so excited to see someone set a guiness world record for shouting no for a full 8m18s

[@calgarybarbell]

Glad you liked it!

[@SchyllingWhistle]

Why would Sumo be easier for shorter people? Talk guys like David Laid lift sumo a lot too, is it actually better for taller people to lift conventional?

[@AerinQQ]

Bryce, whats the actual difference in range of motion between stiff and deadlift bar without significant whip on the deadlift bar (which is there I guess around 250 kg+, but there is almost 0 with one plate on each side)? I think the whole difference between range of motion of both bars it showed is because you used wider stance with the deadlift bar, which obviously decreases range of motion. thanks for clarification