California, Tennessee, Humidity, and Your Piano

[@michaelmagness7318]

I am a piano tuner/technician of 50 years experience thus far in SW Wisconsin, I have installed Piano Lifesaver systems/Dampp-Chasers on a case by case basis for many years, The other tuner & your comments indicate a lack of familiarity with the modern systems controlled by a humidistat set at 42% using at MINIMUM 2 heat bars plus a humidifier reservoir. Properly installed I have experienced none of the problems you or the tuner mentioned, I have over a dozen in church grands alone all with full drop covers the grands range from a 4'11" Samick to a Baldwin 7' & a Boston 7'2". My experience has been that AC alone does NOT dehumidify enough for pianos, most pianos are constructed from kiln dried lumber dried to a 7% moisture content. As soon as the heat runs less in spring, the piano begins to absorb moisture. In this area by mid-June I find pianos that are sharp around A-444+ whether the home is air conditioned or not because the AC compressor does NOT run constantly & that is the component that dehumidifies. Most people will NOT run a dehumidifier on the ground floor of their home, therefore the best/hidden option is a Dampp-Chaser with an undercover for a grand. Aother item you failed to mention, the keys are made of unfinished spruce & the action in a grand is made up of about 14000 parts most of which are unfinished maple, buckskin & felt all of which are also affected by excessive humidity. Tuning pins have a very fine thread cut into them so they will grip the wood fibers which leaves a "burr" on the pin that makes it turn harder n reverse & tear the wood enlarging the hole in the pinblock.

[@ThePianoforever]

ThePianoforever Michael Magness, Thank you for your insight from your many years of experience. It's great to have techs visit our channel with the hope of spreading their wisdom. There have been times when I feel that some techs seem that this channel is below them, and leave comments that must be removed for the benefit, and enjoyment of all who visit this channel. Your points are well taken as I was not referring to a large building like a church. It is quite clear that a small system like ours would not work for a larger building or perhaps not even for a very large home. I do not believe that any one system would work in all cases, but for smaller areas we do believe that a dehumidifier like ours might be the best system for many people. We believe that by addressing the whole room that we will be able to stabilize the area to a larger degree. One of the benefits that you mentioned was the use of a full drop cloth over the pianos in the churches with the damp chaser. Long time followers of my channel will know that I am a great fan of keeping the lid closed on a piano, and also the piano covered as you mentioned. Out of all of the pianos that we have seen in homes we have have seen only one with a full drop cloth over it, and that was in such nice condition that I purchased it for the studio. 2 days ago

[@ThePianoforever]

@@garycitro1674 We know the system well, but just not a fan of them. Our pianos in Tennessee stay in tune nicely and we feel more comfortable as well. As I have said before we have seen pianos damaged by the use of the system you are using. There is also another great advantage that when you treat the whole room you don't have to worry about damage that can happen to equipment in a moist environment. In studio A alone we have vintage drums, Wurly 200, Fender Suitcase, Rhodes Stage, Fender Bass, Vox Continental, Hammond B3, Misc. keyboards and a great deal more that would be left unprotected. Just yesterday we found early stages of mold growing in a storage room right off of our control room that was housing some of our vintage Fender/Rhodes equipment cases that was not protected by a dehumidifier. No system will be right for everybody, but this system is the one for us for sure. We bought another unit for studio b just the other day to protect equipment there as well. Please keep in mind that all areas in the building have heat and air, but that is never enough to protect high quality equipment (just my thoughts).

[@tomintoledo372]

A dehumidifier is just the same as a air conditioner, it has the same components, instead of removing heat it removes moisture from the air. Thanks for the video.

[@Modeltnick]

I live in coastal Florida so humidity is a problem here. Fortunately most spaces here are air conditioned. There is a middle season hear where a dehumidifier is useful because there is no need to drop the temperature. Years ago people used to put those heat lamps inside the piano, which would over dry the piano; cracked sounding boards, etc. great video!

[@AriKona]

Very edifying video James. People do forget about instrument care and upkeep and end up seeing (hearing) the results. Thank you for jogging our memory to keep our pianos in perfect playing order by continuing to take care of them the way we should. (And in Arizona we need lots of humidification to help the pianos stay sounding the way they should.)

[@michaelmagness7318]

Sorry the last comment got so long, I meant to tell you I enjoy your videos for the most part, you show pianos that don't show up very often in my corner of the world. The Steingraeber grands that use a carbon fiber sound board mate it to a spruce sound board so you still get the tone & the stability! One of out PTG chapter members was a dealer prior to his passing away.

[@lostinbeauty7129]

Thanks, James. Very worthwhile video.

[@dadautube]

coastal areas in California (such as Orange County where i live) are also quite humid especially when it's cloudy even if it's not raining ... sometimes, i get nearly 80% humidity in the morning (and i live about 10 miles away from the beach btw) and then it drops to 40% in the afternoon when it's mostly sunny ... that's quite a rapid change during one single summer day!

[@bernardofitzpatrick5403]

Dope intro, with goldfish & pond ! Interesting and useful info on humidity/dehumidifier - thanks man!

[@MyDiesel101]

Excellent and very informative video. Thank You. What did people do before the advent of AC & dehumidifiers? Piano Technicians must have been very busy back then!

[@amascia8327]

Changing conditions affect the wood as you said. So, constant conditions are best. Exactly what conditions are probably not as important as their being constant. So, basic rules: keep the instruments away from outside walls, windows, and heaters. Your AC outlets should not aim at an instrument because the because its temperature can vary (from very cold to room temperature to very hot {for heating in winter}, depending on the system). I believe your whole studio approach is the way to go... and, the requirements (or lack of) for tuning will be the final test. And, by now, you have a reasonable idea if it's working OK. May your pianos never go out of tune... Oh wait, that's heaven... no hurry for that one. May your instruments need minimal tuning. 👍🏼🤠

[@AnnaKhomichkoPianist]

An important topic indeed!

[@ThePianoforever]

So glad you liked it.

[@jeffmcreynolds7595]

Hi James. I'm minister of Music at Fellowship Chapel in Bristol VA, right across the TN line. I'd love for you to come and play our new Pramberger and tell me what you think! not sure where in Tennessee you are, but if it's close enough, let me know. I enjoy your videos!

[@ThePianoforever]

Jeff McReynolds, I have reviewed a Pramberger upright in the past, I will include a link . I found at the time that the action was uneven, and I considered it to be an entry level piano. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6TZpWaYodKUh5Y If your action was uneven it could be regulated to improve the performance.

I live in Santa Clarita 25 miles north of Hollywood. It's considered High Desert and my humidity in the summer is 15% to 30. I uses a humidifier for my guitars! Rest of the year as you say, here in Southern California, very stable from 40 to 55% humidity.. 20 miles to the west at the beach...50-80%! Oh by the way in Palm Springs the high can be up to 125 degrees every summer!! Been there many times in that inferno!!

[@xyBoyMusic]

Super helpful James! Thanks! :)

[@michaelandcarolblackburn103]

Great video, James. I have a barometer on the wall that tells me the humidity in the room where my piano is. I also place an activated charcoal bag nearby to absorb moisture when the humitity gets high. Can't really say if it helps or not because my old gal gets cranky no matter what the weather just because it's so old. Still loving playing my M&H though and expect I will for a very long time. Carol

[@ThePianoforever]

Loved your comment.

[@KarlRKaiser]

Humidity causes the wooden parts of the piano to expand. In the worst case, it is said that if you took a piano from a humid environment into a very dry environment, the action and other components would literally come apart as the parts shrink and separate from each other.

[@bandarock96]

why did you move to tenessee ? california is awesome

[@ThePianoforever]

Tennessee is awesome.

[@forrestfisher4839]

I spent a week in Tucson, AZ at a convention. It's really dry there too.

[@FFKpar]

Man, I've been obsessing over humidity. I have a humidifier for the winter since I'm in the freezer of Alberta, I usually keep it at about 40% for winter. Now I might need to get a dehumidifier for the summer though since it is frequently going to 60% and at times even higher than that (No AC). Tuning sounded fine until the humidity was consistently above 50% then all of a sudden it went way out of tune, though perhaps that may be my sensitive ears (its a curse!).

[@ThePianoforever]

Anytime you have a shift in humidity your piano will out of tune. I believe it is best to keep the humidity at 50 - 55 percent.

[@QuandtHenderson]

Hi! Thank you so very much for this great video. I believe that the way you’ve chosen to solve the humidity problem is perfect. I don’t claim to be an expert and many folks may disagree with me but it seems that a popular way to deal with humidity in a grand piano is for the technician to install a long rod which generates a gentle heat thereby getting rid of the humidity in that immediate area. This rod, however, is usually installed directly under the Grand piano’s pin block. While certainly decreasing the humidity, it can, over time, dry out the pin block itself beyond a healthy degree. This then could lead to a less resilient pin block, more frequent tunings, loose tuning pins and so on. Your hand- held instrument seems to keep the humidity in the area of the pin block around 55 which would seem to be a healthy range to me. Again, I’m not an expert but you seem right on point in solving this problem. Many thanks for this enlightening video and all your other wonderful videos. Take care.

[@ThePianoforever]

Our family decided years ago that we were not fans of those type of piano mounted systems. We have over time seen piano that were badly damaged through misuse of these systems. The techs are going to kill me over this one.

[@johndouglas7787]

@@ThePianoforever I am a piano tuner/tech and I agree with you . Not a fan of them either. Too dry and soundboards and bridges can crack, too much moisture and strings can rust and felt bushings swell.

[@ThePianoforever]

@John Douglas I have discussions with piano techs about this, and still many are installing these systems, but not for my pianos.

[@johndouglas7787]

I probably should mention I am in So. Cal so don't see the extreme changes in humidity that are experienced in other parts of the country.

[@chopinlvr]

James, I really appreciate your videos! Just trying to get this straight in my head. I live in Michigan, we have major temperature swings which translates to humidity swings also. Would I be right to assume that it is best to go with a humidity level that is easier to maintain throughout the year and try to avoid large swings? I try to keep the humidity in our home at 50% during the winter because I can't get it below 60% in the summer. Is this a good way to go?

[@ThePianoforever]

I think that you would be fine if you kept within that zone.

[@chopinlvr]

@@ThePianoforever Thank You!

[@thehousewhisperer6933]

I had a new Yamaha C7X that had pressure ridges when I purchased it (imported from Japan by a non authorized grey dealer). 1 week later the pressure ridges developed into 3 cracks on one of the soundboard planks (basically 1 plank split into 3 or 4 pieces along the grain lines). I returned the piano and was refunded.

[@ThePianoforever]

It happens more than you think.

[@shopbruce]

Great information for everyone. Thanks! I would assume that electric pianos don't have the problem. I live in a very humid climate (Yucatan, Mexico) so I am thinking of getting an electric piano as opposed to a standard one.

[@ThePianoforever]

If you live in a humid climate you can still have problems, but not as likely with a keyboard.

[@comms9803]

My harpsichord had some popped pressure ridges when I got it, so I had to repair than and put it downstairs (I live in TN). Urgh.

[@anonymousfellow8879]

Jacob Moorman My choir director always got SUPER stressed when he tried taking the harpsichord out of storage for the Messiah...for the Easter Concert. You know. Just about the guaranteed wettest and most pressure and temperature fluctuating part of the year. (Then again, TN really doesn’t have a set stable climate for any season? 80s for christmas and 3 ft of snow for New Years. Oh, and super humid droughts with the grass breaking to dust for summers. I swear, this state...)

[@billbergen9169]

Please do a reveiw on the lowrey organo. nice video.

[@synonym1ty]

You can probably hook up a hose to your dehumidifier and not have to empty the reservoir all the time if you have somewhere for the water to go.

[@johnbrock1602]

I have been in Calif for 72yrs would like to know why you left Calif? I am looking to move out of Calif. please do not stair any words.

[@russd.522]

Great video! My AC in Florida keeps the humidity down to around 49% year-round for my SD-10 I mentioned previously. Hygrometers are only like $10 on Amazon. :)

[@ThePianoforever]

That's fine if it's working for you, but you must be concerned with the swings that air conditioners are known for.

[@moldenburg909]

Interesting. So you don’t have to use a system that give extra water in your room? Isn’t that a water evaporator or something like that? I am not sure. I thought that the harp also keeps the strings in place. I am probably wrong in that.

[@ThePianoforever]

The advantage to a humid climate is that most of the time you only need to subtract water from the air. The harp works well for what id does, but you still need to be concerned with the humidity as well.

[@moldenburg909]

I am puzzled here. So in fact, although the harp holds the strings, the piano still can break because of the tension? So that’s then the tension of the outside wood? I know that they make the outside under tension is that what you mean? Or because of the tension of the strings. Sorry somewhere I missed something.

[@hydrusje]

Have you heard about piano life savers? I've seen them in a few piano's overhere (mainland europe) The people that have them seem to be very happy with them. Something I am also very curious about is piano's with carbon fibre soundboard (like the Cello's you sometimes see) Steingraeber does it as an option, don't know if you know of more of them. But that could be a very good option for someone that is an difficult climate.

[@ThePianoforever]

I believe that the best system is one that treats the whole room and not just the piano. I hear from time to time about those who are thinking about coming out with carbon fibre soundboards, but I would rather stay with what I know best. I also think of what the world's best piano makers (Fazioli, Yamaha, Bluthner,) are using, and that is still a traditional soundboard. The carbon fibre instruments i have heard (cellos and guitars) seem very cold to me, compared to their wooden traditional counterparts.

[@synonym1ty]

What about a damp chaser?

[@ThePianoforever]

Not our thing.

[@langkuai2671]

Hi, what mbti type are you? :) Intp?

[@dangerousnoodle3730]

first

[@sissy1234hhh]

Get a M&H, then you don't have a lot of problems with humidity.

[@ThePianoforever]

That's not really true.