Caller Asks Why Catholics Pray to Saints

[@swoosh1mil]

Mr. Lofton, excellent job on keeping your cool and speaking in an even tone. The caller proved that he either lacked the understanding of what you were saying or he lacked the ability to see the error in his own reasoning. Even when the caller asserted that you were suggesting that God was incapable of hearing/listening to prayers, you kept your composure. I applaud you! 👏 👏 👏

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thank you!

[@macdan22]

Michael is a coward without conviction. He shadow bans those who disagree with what he is saying. Not even man enough to tell you why he's blocking you. Just like his golden calf the Pope. If you silence your critics you don't need to defend yourself and what you say. He shadow bans because like the vipers they like to act in the dark away from the light. Like a modern day Pharisee, Michael loves to hold up the canon book instead of the Holy Book. He should learn from Paul and Peter when they say: 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander away to myths. 1 Peter 3:15 but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you;

[@joeterp5615]

The Protestant way of thinking on this is VERY DEEPLY ingrained. It’s not something they will change an opinion on in a couple minutes. I’ve been engaging with a Protestant on this question on YT for several days. I try to be charitable and patient - though it’s not always easy. I don’t want someone to close themselves off even more just because I come off as a smug jerk lol. These people were just born into (most of them) a faulty tradition that looks to the Bible as the sole rule of faith. They are programmed to only think, “Where in the Bible does it say…?” The lack of respect for other Tradition and authority is the root of the problem, plus, they don’t fully grasp the wonder of the Body of Christ. They try to cleave it in two, those in heaven and those on earth, thinking those in heaven suddenly lose their Christian character (loving others as He loved us) when in heaven. I’ve raised the points that Michael did here in my conversation… but it’s a bit like talking to wall. In the end… I still realize that I’m presenting information that this person has never heard, so even if I get the harshest and accusatory replies… I think I’m still planting a seed.

[@dallasbrat81]

@@joeterp5615it’s because the Protestants have the Holy Spirit telling them Catholics are Heretical on some teachings but still our brothers

[@bcalvert321]

No Catholic can prove this by the Bible. All they have is writing from the church fathers and many of them are lies.

[@MrPeach1]

I really like Job when people say that asking for intersession is somehow abhorent to God. God literally tells the guys that Jobs prayers are better because Job is more righteous

[@ProtestantsRUs]

Sure but still does not in anyway broach the question of death and inability to hear

[@MrPeach1]

@@ProtestantsRUs its just part of building a case. This would only be fore proving that Holy people prayers are more acceptable to the Lord. I feel like the rest of the case was pretty well laid out by Michael.

[@ashleyfernandeslawrence4014]

@MrPeach1 God is omnipresent omniscient and omnipotent. He can hear prayers of multitudes at the same time. How can we equate that with so called "saints" who are dead physically but alive with God? By the way "saints " are those who believe in Christ according to the scripture.

[@MrPeach1]

@@ashleyfernandeslawrence4014 i am not getting your point.

[@MrPeach1]

@@ashleyfernandeslawrence4014 do you think we are saying the Saints have omnipresence? Because I really don't know how much they can see or know. I just trust that God gets the word to them if I ask for their prayers.

[@cheryl0327]

As a new convert to Catholicism, I found this explaination tobe the best I have heard yet. Thanks Michael. This is something I have been struggling with in praying the rosary.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

You are right to struggle! This man is a false teacher and iseading you into open and unrepentent idolatry. What was good about this explanation? He either dodged the question, rebutted claims we're not making, or brought up scripture passages that have nothing to do with what we're talking about.

[@mathitis93]

I'm a convert who's been in full communion with the Church for 2 years now. These things do get easier with time. For me, while I did accept everything the Church teaches, it probably took me at least a year to get comfortable with things like asking for intercession from the saints and Mary. Just keep praying, receiving the Eucharist, and going to confession. It'll all come with time. Welcome home!

[@swoosh1mil]

​​@@ProtestantsRUs🤣😆😅😂 When a Protestant gets this upset. It's because Scripture has completely and utterly proven the Protestant wrong. 😂

[@wesleysimelane3423]

@@swoosh1mil Where has scripture proven protestants wrong. On the other hand though, the bible has proven many teachings of catholicism as unproven and false. This is why catholics hate sola scriptura.

[@ELROD.1_0_1]

​​@weaponofchoice-tc7qsu sounds angry😇 look at us Catholics. Peaceful, calm, quiet. Petty nice right

[@chrishorton8213]

Thank you for your charitable approach and patience with callers like this. You handled that very well. 🙏

[@ironymatt]

I think some of it just comes down technical difficulties. It's not uncommon for phone conversations to experience a small delay in transmission, whereby one caller may inadvertently begin talking without realizing the other hasn't finished, due to a momentary pause. It comes across as a rude interruption but usually isn't intended as such.

[@ELROD.1_0_1]

​@@ironymattits not that, you can clearly hear the caller's frustration

[@ironymatt]

@@ELROD.1_0_1 you're right, I don't deny that, but I think there was also some moments where it seemed like the caller and Michael were interrupting each other, but in fact the delay was occurring, which did require patience as well

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thank you!

[@ELROD.1_0_1]

@@ironymatt okay

[@scp234]

Prayers for the continued patience and cool explanations of Mr. Lofton.

[@KnightGeneral]

Michael’s patience is incredible.

[@ReasonandTheology]

I appreciate it

[@arturmonteiro8541]

@@ReasonandTheology I really need some of it lol

[@stoneagearcher3477]

Im wish I said some too! These folks are willfully blind.

[@djkeirian1996]

It's very sad he couldn't comprehend the conversation. I see this daily.

[@user-di8vz5ec1i]

Maybe not immediately, but with our prayers and trust in the power of God he will.

[@paulericn.mouafo6610]

it's a specific mindset among these separated brethren... looks like all of them came out from the same womb. 😬

[@joeterp5615]

It’s very hard for them. We just need to engage them with patience and love. It’s not always easy when they say sacrilegious things… but they do so out of ignorance.

[@triconcert]

@@joeterp5615 Sometimes out of invincible ignorance. The difficulty, as with this caller, is assuming to speak for God, arguing from his own interpretation which is clearly not supported by Scripture and Tradition. Out of charity we continue to pray for a St Paul conversion.

[@mmr1137]

@@djkeirian1996 protestants really often preach lukewarm faith

[@scottcreedon7405]

I left the Presbyterian Church for the Catholic Church, but still had issues with Saints and Mother Mary (the attention she received in comparison with her Holy Son). Just this year I've began to change my feelings on the matter, and have started doing the rosary, and asking Mother Mary to pray for me.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

You'll find there is much scripture in the rosary. Pray and reflect on the sorrowful mysteries on Fridays

[@josephssewagudde8156]

The most important prayer in the Catholic church is the holy mass. Mary is just mentioned in that prayer just like any other saint, eg Felicity, Ambrose! I have not know any place where Mary enjoys more attention . In the rosary where Mary is frequently mentioned, the prayer itself is a summary of the mystery of salvation where Jesus plays a central role

[@matthewbateman6487]

Convert here; I was Presbyterian as well -- If you're is interested I gave an answer to this question on my channel. It was a response to the Evangelical channel "Cross Examined"

[@scipherfilter5913]

@@matthewbateman6487 Is Jesus not enough?

[@matthewbateman6487]

@@scipherfilter5913 Do you ask your fellow Christians to pray for you? Or is Jesus not enough? Do you also read the Bible - or is Jesus not enough? You're presenting a false dichotomy.

[@GuilielmusPro]

I love how charitable Michael is

[@ntmn8444]

He’s great!

[@GumbyJumpOff]

And dat nuance

[@ReasonandTheology]

I appreciate it!

[@codynunez5246]

Phenomenal response Michael. Clear, concise, well reasoned, and CALM.

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thanks!

[@mitchellosmer1293]

DEAD KNOW NOTHING ---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? ---Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. ---Ecclesiastes 9:6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” ----James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. ---Job 14:10-12 But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. --****John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. ---Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. (Judgement on Judgement day) ---Acts 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died). ---Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. -----Job 14:12 So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. According to Catholics, God and the Gospels are liars !!!!

[@ModernLady]

"Are you saying Gos is not good enough?" No. I’m saying I’m not good enough. I’m the one needing help, not God..

[@ContriteCatholic]

When protestants say "but they're dead" I wonder what they understand about Christianity and Christ opening up the doors to eternal life. If the saints are dead and Mary is dead, then there's literally no hope for any of us.

[@rouxmain934]

Bro, same!

[@Alexander07865]

Have u read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18? There will be two resurrections. Revelation 20. U need to read the whole Bible, not cherry pick for fueling arguments. Btw, I’m not a Protestant, so no need to get your blood boiled up. (I’m not a Catholic either). I just go by God’s word not man’s word. Repent and trust in Jesus

[@ELROD.1_0_1]

​@@Alexander07865😂 you just completely missed the whole point bro. Jesus literally established one big church. Is that a joke or something? Why you are wandering around. Get into a community

[@ContriteCatholic]

@@Alexander07865 I'm not sure where I cherry picked the bible, as I believe in the threefold authority of Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium. Single Bible verses are of little to no use to me, since that's not how Catholics interpret Divine Revelation. Also, if you're not Catholic or Orthodox, you're protestant. There are no other options. Do you believe in the Bible alone? Salvation though faith alone? and a 66-book bible? If you answered yes to a single one of these, you're protestant.

[@vt20247]

Right...there is no hope for us. There is only one mediator between mankind and God, the father!

[@Duarteyahoo272]

I consider myself a non denominational christian, very skeptical of catholicism, but this explanation of yours made so much sense, i thought catholics only prayed to saints instead of God, but now seeing what yall actually believed really opened my eyes. Thank you!

[@johnbrion4565]

This is just one of the many misconceptions people have of the Catholic Church. Keep searching! Trent horn is another great resource.

[@johnbrion4565]

Also there is a book called surprised by truth by Patrick Madrid documenting 11 Protestant converts to Catholicism. It addresses this and many other issues other denominations have with the Catholic Church and how actually Catholic belief is rooted in the Bible. These are people many who went to Gordon and were hardcore anti Catholic!

[@scooterdude17]

As Catholics, we are obligated to believe in this teaching, however, praying to saints is not something Catholics have to do. It's optional.

[@johnbrion4565]

@@scooterdude17 I wouldn’t even call it “praying to saints.” By pray we really are asking the saints to pray for us.

[@scooterdude17]

@@johnbrion4565 "Pray" in the old meaning of the word. To pray, means to ask for.

[@thecatholicdad]

Michael is so good and charitable! This was a rough exchange, but he handled it with great class and with great diligence in providing the kind of evidence that addressed the caller's concerns without ignoring his arguments. Very well done!

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thank you!

[@TriciaPerry-mz7tc]

The caller is right God doesn't want anyone praying TO Saints who are I their grave. We are not to do this and YOU HAVE NO PROOF IF ZTHEY ARE IN HEAVEN OR IN y'all purgatory. So how them can you say they are in heaven????

[@imalive4u169]

If anyone says that the saints are dead, make our Lord Jesus out to be a liar because it was Him who said those who believes in Him shall not die. John 11:26.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

What does that actually mean? use specific terminology that has actual definitions. Don't just vaguely say "mUh iTs A MySTerY" like you guys always have to resort to because not a single verse in God's inspired, inerrant word supports any of your false doctrines

[@YoujustgotJ1NXED]

Well said

[@461weavile]

Sometimes I wish I would have an opportunity to come back at someone with "oh, so Jesus lied about that?" Probably uncharitable to premeditate that, but it's a nice fantasy.

[@rouxmain934]

They'll turn it around and understand it as they'll live after the second coming

[@jpesmar]

@@rouxmain934exactly, that's what I've encountered. When I say "they ain't dead", the usual comeback is "they're in a state of sleep, they can't hear you. They'll wake up at the end of times" So they're saved, in Heaven, but still sleeping and not actually enjoying Heaving and His glory. If I then point out the transfiguration of our Lord, what I've heard as an explanation is that Moses an Elijah could have been woken up for that time and then went back to sleep. It's a lot of mental gymnastics and elaborated sleep/awake schedules to avoid the most basic explanation: that saints in Heaven are alive, because Jesus said they are.

[@georgepierson4920]

Jesus said that all are alive in God. Protestants refuse to accept that.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

1. What does "all alive God" ACTUALLY mean? I'm alive in God RIGHT NOW, and I don't hear prayers from thousands of miles away... 2. The onus is on YOU to prove how regular humans become literal gods capable of omniscience when they die, bc that's the only way they can hear you.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

Romans catholics can only speak in loose, vague terms and use any verse to prove any poisition because they're not educated enough to know what any of them actually mean. Your church changes it's doctrine all the time, ans didn't wven e,iat in it's current form til the counxil of trent in the 1500s, and YOU refuse to accept that.

[@trevorsrq6179]

@@ProtestantsRUsThe Body of Christ is inseparable by death, via Baptism & Holy Communion. The Bible talks of those who have died in the context of being alive, and Jesus communed with Moses and Elijah. Hebrews talks about a great cloud of witnesses. Jesus said those in heaven will rejoice when a sinner turns from their wicked ways & Revelation talks about those in Heaven offering the prayers of those one earth before the throne of God like incense. Every Protestant denomination, sect & cult is a tradition of men. Korah’s Rebellion 2.0 God sealed the matter on schism and division long ago. The Church in heaven are in a state of perfection & more alive than we are. It’s foolishness to think they don’t pray for their families, friends & their collective brethren on earth…DIRECTLY TO JESUS. Jesus is the only mediator to the Father, however, He is not the only intercessor to himself or to the Father. All Christians can pray & intercede directly to the Holy Trinity on the behalf of others, those on earth and those in Heaven can all pray.

[@Proximityillusions]

You’re incorrect. We know the saved are eternally alive. At the same time, the Scripture is clear that God hates when human beings attempt to talk to the dead. It is always prohibited and punished in Scripture. A human being does not become a demigod after dying in Christ. Human limitations must still exist. The dead saints don’t know everything that is going on here on Earth, or heaven would be a pretty sad place indeed. God will share His glory with no other; pray to Jesus and only to Him.

[@godsfamily6627]

​@@ProximityillusionsPaul could pray for people while he was in earth. Now after his death, he cannot pray? He is more holy and perfect now than while he was here on earth. This follows all who are dead in CHRIST. Remember the rich man from hell was praying to the dead Abraham. No doubt a prayer from hell can never be answered. But you get the point. My friend you are in error. Jesus spoke to the dead Moses. I sincerely pray you do an unbiased research into the teachings of the Catholic Church for a month. Catholics like me trying to help you will only hurt your ego. And that is not my intention. May the LORD continue to shower His Goodness and Mercy upon you. Stay blessed. God bless you abundantly. Grace to all who have an undying love for Christ. Amen. Shalom.

[@garrettm.6557]

Nice glad to see Michael Lofton on the Catholic Answers call-in show. He's a solid resource, thanks.

[@ReasonandTheology]

I appreciate that!

[@4372408]

Love how Lofton threw that little “I believe you’re following a human tradition” in at the end 😂

[@jamesv2471]

I love your calmness and how you answer the caller's arguments in a soft spoken way, all with Bible verses so that the Sola Scriptura fellas can read it in their Bible. Great job!!!

[@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960]

One crucial thing to ask when Prots raise the objection "Why does God need you to pray to Saints?" is this: Why does God need us to pray at all? He knows in advance what we will ask for. This is clearly about us and our benefit from Prayer. And likewise does one love God by loving others, praying for one another and strengthen the communal Bond of Believers.

[@ThatGuy-nr5sp]

When we pray to God it i our way of showing gratitude and dependence on God. It’s also a way for us to connect with other Christian’s. This is true. Praying for one another does strengthen bonds . But when you pray to saints you are not praying for them you are praying to them. There is a difference. Catholics will say the Bible tells us to intercede for each other . Which is to pray for one another. So if you are going by Bible . Where does the Bible instruct anyone to pray to anyone other than God. The key word is “to” I know that Catholics say the Protestants changed the definition or prayer but throughout the Bible Old and New Testament when anyone mention the word prayer or pray ,they are talking about communicating with God or a deity. Not a saint or equivalent.

[@robertkolinsky1286]

Saints are in the presence of God. Therefore they are filled with charity and care about us. Bible says charity is the greatest virtue. Our charity for 8ne another doesn't cool when we get to heaven but magnifies in the presence of God. And pray is simply different with Saints then with God because God is infinite in all perfections the saints are not. When we pray to Saints its not the same thing as with God. You can call it intercessory prayer. And bible says intercessions are good and acceptable in the sight of God who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. As catholics we believe those who have eternal life are far more alive than we can possibly ever be on earth. As bibke says eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man what God has prepared for those who love him. And the prayer of the righteous person availeth much. And those who have eternal life are far more righteous since they can no longer sin and will love God for all eternity. And one of the catechism of the catholic church particularly the catechism of st pius the 10th it gives this question," since christ is the one mediator between God and man, why have recourse to Mary and the saints?. Answer:" Christ is the mediator between God and man because being true God and true man, He alone in virtue of his own merits has reconciled us to God and obtains us all graces. But in virtue of the merits of christ and by the charity which unites them to God and us, the blessed virgin and the saints intercede for us to help us obtain the graces we ask. And this is one of the great benefits of the communion of saints". Because what must be noted is that Mary's advocacy and intercessions and the saints is entirely subordinate and dependent on christ since all their Graces they have they get from him. But as catholics we believe all those in christ are both alive and family united in charity. Those on earth are the church militant. Those in heaven are the church triumphant.

[@rexlion4510]

Actually, asking friends is totally unlike praying to saints. The deceased saints have run their race and now they rest with Christ; they no longer are under a call to perform service to God. When Paul was about to be killed, he wrote to Timothy, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith." Rev. 14:3 says in part, "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours..." Stop assuming that God is making everyone in heaven run their butts off in some divine 'messenger service', as if God were somehow in need of help to keep track of your prayers! Besides, only God is omniscient and thereby capable of hearing all the prayers of all people (which includes mental, nonverbal prayer); you have no scriptural support to think that Mary or the deceased saints are capable of hearing the billions of prayers that are directed toward them. People are finite created beings of limited knowledge and presence, whereas God is omniscient and omnipresent. God is therefore capable of knowing all your thoughts and intentions, all your prayers (even the unspoken ones), and how they should be answered. But deceased saints are utterly unequipped to hear the thousands of prayers (both spoken and unspoken) directed toward them every day. Praying to saints only makes sense if you attribute Godlike qualities to them. The only reason to pray to Mary or the deceased saints is if someone has weak, deficient faith in God. When someone doubts God's willingness to listen to our prayers and to do what is best for us in response to those prayers, that person might think that he can get Mary to twist her son's arm for them or get some saint to bug Jesus so He'll finally help out. This is a lack of trust in God and in His written word. 1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 1Jn 5:15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him. One of the problems Catholics face is, they don't know that they have eternal life. In fact, the Roman Catholic Church insists that one cannot know those and cannot have any assurance of salvation during one's lifetime. Yet John, the beloved disciple of Jesus, wrote by divine inspiration, "I write these things to you who believe...that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life." (RC doctrine is proven by Scripture to be un-Biblical and heretical.) Any Christian who knows that he has eternal life also has confidence that God hears whatever we ask and that He will grant our requests in the way that is best for all concerned (which isn't always the way we expected, but that's beside the point).

[@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960]

@@rexlion4510 I stopped reading when you claimed that Saints dont do anything anymore now that they are dead. "When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and golden bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the saints." -Revelation 5:8 Youre clearly incorrect unless you want to deny that Revelation is scripture like Luther did

[@rexlion4510]

@@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960 Heb 4:1 "Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it." The "rest" which is talked about in this passage is heaven, wouldn't you agree? Heb 4:9-10 "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his." It says right here that people of God who go to heaven are resting from their works. This shows us that they are not still laboring to do good works such as prayers and intercession.

[@truthspeaker1558]

Where in the Bible it says Jesus brushed His teeth? So does that mean He didn't? Asking everything to be found in Scriptures is a bad argument. Where is the Sinners prayer in the Bible? And there are so many things not in the Bible which Protestant do all the time. Grace to all who have an undying love for Christ. Amen.

[@billmartin3561]

As a former Protestant, the strongest scripture defense is Hebrews 12:1 “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,”. It’s clear that the saints in heaven are cheering us on. It’s also clear in the transfiguration that life continues after death, as Jesus has a discussion with Moses and Elijah.

[@peestrem31]

yeah but the bible says not to pray to dead people

[@darklight1611]

@@peestrem31 The saints are not dead, they are alive in heaven. Also, Jesus broke that law by talking to Moses and Elijah, since you are claiming they are dead.

[@peestrem31]

@@darklight1611 ok but he was talking to moses and elijah not praying also if the saints are "alive" in heaven then that means basically everyone is alive so praying to anyone is ok (your logic)

[@darklight1611]

@@peestrem31 God himself said he is the God of the living, which means we who die in Christ are alive in heaven. Because he is not the God of the dead.

[@peestrem31]

@@darklight1611 but why would saying "do not pray to the dead" even matter if everyone is alive in hell or heaven?

[@Mai2727]

"Why would you pray to a woman?" The misogyny coming through....does he think there's no female saints? It would be part of the original question.

[@G-MIP]

He definitely sounded like he had contempt for women. …”all generations will call me blessed.” - Luke 1:48

[@dankmatter3068]

Whoever dishonours the Mother clearly dishonours The Son.

[@calebnwafor2549]

The caller was going into schock from discovering he is wrong.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

Repent and believe in the TRUE gospel, put aside your works based salvation as paul says in Galatians. Mary disn'tcreate you, Mary isn't God, she can't save you, let alone hear you. So stop praying to statues of her

[@holysmoke3201]

More like going through the 5 stages of grief lol

[@ProtestantsRUs]

@@holysmoke3201 liar

[@djo-dji6018]

Cognitive dissonance, I know something about it having been a quite ferocious atheist most of my life.

[@jobbins008]

I would imagine this theology has been long held before the common folk were able to read the Bible for themselves but the Catholic church is unwilling to let it go. I found his arguments lacking tremendously.

[@J-PLeigh8409]

He clearly did not want his gross misrepresentation of a question to be answered...but it did get answered as it always does & he did not like it & unfortunately has a shallow elementary view of the holy faith..its to the point that every objection has been refuted biblically & historically but Protesters still hold these weak objections

[@ReasonandTheology]

Pray for him

[@malcolmmeer9761]

The comments from Revelation, one of the reasons Luther wanted to remove it from the re-writing he did of the Bible

[@rouxmain934]

*Luthifer*

[@ELROD.1_0_1]

​​@@rouxmain934Am i in trouble laughing at this. 👀

[@hirakisk]

Yep, and the book of St. James also because it didn't support his "faith alone" idea.

[@garybrown2039]

As well as Tobit and maccabees. Seriously they are so important understanding the Bible, I can not understand why you didn't like indulgences and the Church making money off of it, but those books have so much more to them than the concepts related to it.

[@DolceFuoco13]

I'm still learning. But now I know why we pray "St. Micheal pray for us, Holy Mary mother of God pray for us" Thank you!

[@henrytran4782]

The person who asks the question needed to be more open minded and try to understand the logic.

[@papashembot]

Thank You Michael!

[@meathammer4230]

“So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has” - Job 42:8 “Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” - James 5:16

[@admcglka]

I’m a convert. It’s pretty easy to understand this. This man seems to be holding a grudge that is preventing him from having an open heart to have a genuine discussion. He wanted to “get Catholics” and it was obvious. Good job staying cool.

[@jeffgriscoa8131]

Yea that type of grudge can keep anyone in Sin and ignorance for eternity. That’s dangerous behavior.

[@lukebrown5395]

Sir don’t disrupt Michael, they can pray for us because they are in heaven and closer to God than we are. The book of Tobit has Raphael interceding on behalf of Tobit and Sarah.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

The book of Tobit isn't part of the bible, but I am curious to read this, as I've often found Roman positions just come from the magisterium saying "trust us", not from the apocrypha. What's the chapter/verse?

[@georgepaulicivic9073]

Remember, the Book of Tobit is not included in most Protestant bibles. At least 7 books are missing.

[@ntmn8444]

Yeah, the above commenter is correct. Protestants will dismiss you real quick on that one. But don’t worry, they’re wrong.

[@mastershake4641]

Closer to God than us? I dont know about you but I have the Holy Spirit inside of me.

[@garybrown2039]

@@ntmn8444 Yet you are correct on that. But we can just tell them that, for some reason, their leaders decided to remove books from the Bible that were already there.

[@Joeyrahmz]

1 Timothy 2:7: I urge that all supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men. This is good and acceptable.

[@ThatGuy-nr5sp]

The key words , be made for all men . This text is telling you to pray and intercede for other people . Not pray to saints for intercession.

[@c.Ichthys]

​@@ThatGuy-nr5sp The soul is immortal and never ceases to exist. The souls of those departed earthly saints are very much alive in heaven and see God face to face just as God's holy (saintly) Angels in heaven do as well. Peter, James and John witnessed the souls of Moses and Elijah speaking with Jesus at the Transfiguration. They are alive! Seen and heard. The deceased Onias and Jeremiah prayed for the Jewish nation. Judas Maccabeus had a vision of them and spoke with them. He was given a sword by them as well. (2 Maccabees 15:11-16) Tobit 12:12-15 12 Tobit, when you and Sarah prayed to the Lord, *I was the one who brought your prayers into his glorious presence.* I did the same thing each time you buried the dead. 13 On the day you got up from the table without eating your meal in order to bury that corpse, God sent me to test you. 14 But he also sent *me to cure you and to rescue your daughter-in-law, Sarah, from her troubles.* 15 I am Raphael, one of the *seven* *angels* who stand in the glorious presence of the Lord, ready to serve him." In Revelation we are told of the 7 angels, and Raphael is one of the 7. Read Revelation 5:8 These 24 elders are the 12 OT patriarchs and the 12 Apostles (Saints in heaven) and they hear and carry our prayers up to God in heaven! Also, the Holy Angels hear us and also carry our prayers up to God in heaven! Read Revelation 8:3-4 And we also see as further proof that the souls of the departed are alive and in heaven, (ie: the martyrs) Read Revelation 6:9-11 Very much alive and intercede for us. Just as Mary interceded and was instrumental in Jesus's 1st miracle. She is seen in Heaven as the woman crowned with 12 stars, the Ark of His Covenant seen in heaven by her adopted son St. John, in Revelation. You place limitations on God's omnipotence and the gifts He offers. After all, we know God is more than enough, yet He gifted us all with our own Guardian Angels and He sends Angels to heal us and minister to us (when we know God alone is sufficient NONETHELESS God made this possible for us all) I am grateful to God through Jesus Christ for giving us our holy angels, the saints who carry our prayers to God and intercede for us thusly, for The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church (the New Jerusalem) built by Jesus upon Cephas (Aramaic means Rock and translated into English is Peter) with our Bishops (successors of the Apostles) and Priests. Ever see this verse? Protestants Never quote this: John 1:42 Then he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon bar Jonah; you will be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter). Amen

[@robertkolinsky1286]

​@@ThatGuy-nr5spwhat's good in this life doesn't stop being good in the next.

[@ThatGuy-nr5sp]

@@robertkolinsky1286 Ok

[@hilaryxko]

I think to answer this question, we need to explain to non-Catholics how the “dead” are more alive than us As a revert I used to believe that the “dead” were in sort of “sleep” waiting for their judgement Thanks for providing such a simple explanation We need to keep praying for him though

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thanks

[@peeposhake2607]

Thank you Michael for showing him grace and acting like a dove, the wisdom of the Holy Spirit enlightened your memory to remember the things you've learned and to guide lost souls to knowledge of the truth. I am now studying for my confirmation and I am so glad the Holy Spirit made me read Matthew 16 again when I was struggling to find the true Church Jesus left us through His apostles, from then it was only a while until I searched the succession from Saint Peter and then I knew where home was, in the Holy Catholic Church. God bless you with good health and everlasting life ! 🙏

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thank you!

[@phil2d2]

My God! You made that so incredibly clear! Apparently, that wasn’t an honest question but a challenge. Sad!!!

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thanks

[@Catmonks7]

Great job Michael Lofton 🙏✝️✝️🇻🇦⛪️💯

[@slow9573]

Good job Michael. Caller was needlessly antagonistic yet you maintained patience and charity towards him

[@MrCusefan44]

Here’s how the conversation seems to generally play out: P: Why do you pray to saints? C: It’s similar to asking your friend to pray for you. P: But they’re dead! In years of listening to this same discussion play out, I still have no idea what a Protestant thinks follows from that. Worst case is we’re praying to a dead person who can’t hear us, but since we also pray to God it’s kinda irrelevant. Plus this caller made the comment that we think God is incapable…but God can’t hear a prayer we prayed to a saint and is still “capable”? I feel bad for people who have been told this nonsense for so long they just believe it without picking it apart and realizing what a weak theological view is at the base of it. If they really pick it apart, it will force them to reject core beliefs of their own belief system. I suspect that’s part of why people who pose it so often get emotional - at it’s core it’s an irrational position.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

Okay, I'll give you step 4 But thery're dead... And for them to be able to hear you, you'd either A. Need a seance, ie Samuel, which is actual witchcraft B. Need to admit that they have become actual gods, capable of transcending space, time, and matter, let alone the language barrier, since plenty of these guys didn't speak english... We know the effects of sin are removed at death, but to assert that they become superheroes with superhuman levels of omniscience not previosuly had is on YOU to prove. No, at worst case, you're guilty of open idolatry, and that should concern you, as idolaters will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Only God has power to answer prayers, only God can hear you, because only God IS God, not these pagan idols you have made of random Christians throughout the milenia, nost of whixh would be apalled you have statues of them.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

"Why people often get emotional" total misnomer, as one of your own just screamed at me in the comments, so stop screating strawmans, andmaking vague generalizations

[@albertj65]

Bottom line, pray to God. Don't take any chances with the saints. Our Father who art in heaven.....etc. Jesus gave us the model prayer. Don't let satan rip you off.

[@MrCusefan44]

@@albertj65 - What “chances” are being taken?

[@MrCusefan44]

@@ProtestantsRUs - Someone screaming at you in comments is irrelevant to my point, trying to make it relevant is poor logic and reasoning on your part. It’s possible that a Catholic person could be poorly catechized and would get emotional AND Protestants have weak theology backing an irrational position against praying to saints and get emotional. Considering I’m specifically commenting on a video where the Protestant caller blew a gasket and hung up, it’s not a straw man - I’m commenting specifically on what is observed in the video and speculating on the reason incidents like this occur.

[@oldmovieman7550]

As a Protestant myself, I think the objections often given against praying to the saints are lacking, especially the notion that the saints are dead. Also whether or not the saints are able to hear our prayers (I am undecided on that point) I do believe the church triumphant is constantly praying for the church militant.

[@sugaralien]

I applaud your openess. I questioned a lot of things with the desire to know and understand the truth. He provides when we're not trapped by pride. Keep asking and learning. It's a beautiful jounrney. God is amazing.

[@scopilio13]

i encourage you to reflect on which church is true. Jesus came to save many, not all, and those in His true church are most certainly closer to being saved than those who lie outside.

[@robertkolinsky1286]

Saints are able to hear our prayers through the grace of God which they are full apart of in heaven. Nothing is impossible with God.

[@jeanb.5405]

On Saints being abel to hear us; They are no longer in their human body - they are spirit now so we have no reason not to think that the spirits can hear us just like the Angels hear us and that is in the bible. God wants us to be with Him but we have to endure this world first this exile and carry our crosses willingly and the Saints have done it, they won the race so we look to how they lived and thank God for them and we ask them to take up our cause and pray for us - they are in God's favor already certainly not so that they can lay around on a white cloud and do nothing for eternity but rather wouldn't God give them a work to do just as Adam and Eve were not in the garden doing nothing lazily but had to 'till the garden'' even before the fall. We are one family when we are baptized with those who are baptized, and the virtue of Justice demands we pray for one another - when we die we don't stop being family any more with them than we stop being family with Jesus who is our Brother. You likely would not go to hell for not asking others who are in heaven to assist you in your journey but it won't be of any credit to one who does not honor those God loves and has honored.

[@havefaith4382]

@@jeanb.5405 i dont think the saints are in the clouds they are in paradise in sheol are they not

[@bengoolie5197]

There is much anti-Catholic hatred in that caller's voice. We should pray for him

[@ntmn8444]

He called thinking he was going to convert the apologists 😂

[@Zxymr]

There's a difference between long-held biases and anti-Catholic hatred. Hanlon's razor. You can tell that Michael understands that.

[@KnightGeneral]

True and all protestants who sound like him. I know many.

[@bengoolie5197]

I disagree. That caller hates Catholics, hates the Holy Catholic Church, and perhaps most horrible of all, that caller has disdain for the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Great Mother of God!@@Zxymr

[@ComicRaptor8850]

@@bengoolie5197 That would be to judge the heart of this man and that is a sin against charity. Please delete this comment.

[@stinger223]

I am a southern Baptist and am researching Catholicism. I am amazed at how this was so calmly handled. I kept thinking "YOU asked a question, just let him finish speaking!" All the guy wanted was to argue, he wasn't genuine in wanting to learn...

[@TriciaPerry-mz7tc]

He was trying to show Michael that the scriptures ARE AGAINST what the Catholic Church teach and Michael is wrong He kept running back and using human reasoning to explain spiritual things. It’s necromancy and blaspheme to pray to the dead. Plain and simple.

[@filiposamunaka3]

Right on Michael.. always love your show n KZbin videos

[@evancawley3236]

Well done Michael 👏

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thanks!

[@thejerichoconnection3473]

Incredibly enough, this naive rebuttal (“but they are dead!”) comes even from learned Protestant apologists, like Gavin Ortlund.

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

Some unresolved anger in the callers voice/behavior. Catholics believe our God conquered death so that we may all have access to Eternal Life. The Good Thief entered Heaven that day, Jesus sent him there. Elijah and Moses appeared to Jesus, Peter, James and John centuries after their death. The ancient Jews prayed to Mother Rachel as the Mother of Israel to intercede for them. Jews today travel to Ukraine every year to attend the grave of Rabbi Nachman with their candles and pray for his intercession. Mother Mary is our Mother.

[@crusaderACR]

Yes, Jews have always believed in intercession and in purgatory. Protestants are the ones with the burden of proof in claiming these are suddenly not needed. There's nothing showing that. Also one little correction, while Moses did die, Elijah was in fact directly assumed into Heaven, like Jesus was.

[@crusaderACR]

@weaponofchoice-tc7qs I see your question, and that's a profound misunderstanding of Christianity. Christ did not come to give peace on Earth, but for eternal peace in Heaven. What Christ did promise is conflict even among family members, discord, death for the Truth, suffering, and above all Justice for those who persevere. May peace be with you. The eternal kind.

[@lyndavonkanel8603]

@@crusaderACR I didn't know that Jews also believe in Purgatory and praying for those in it. Thanks for sharing! Now I know we Catholics aren't alone in this belief.

[@gipsymelody1268]

i think elijah was not and actually he died! the fact how his clothes stayed on the earth it really want to point about how he is died because when jesus ascended his clothes goed with him! @@crusaderACR

[@mitchellosmer1293]

---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? ---Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. ---Ecclesiastes 9:6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” ----James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. ---Job 14:10-12 But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. --****John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. ---Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. (Judgement on Judgement day) ---Acts 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died). ---Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. -----Job 14:12 So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. ----Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

[@johannesmariajosefsson8785]

This just came up after I asked for the Saints intercessions amen Hallelujah

[@tonyschmitz1997]

The caller didn’t want an explanation. They called to rebuke church teaching. I pray that this caller will revisit this interaction and have their heart softened to the beauty of the communion of saints and the sonship in the divine family they have.

[@c.Ichthys]

Yes, he didn't seem to wait and hear the explanations: just interrupted and spoke over Michael

[@lyndavonkanel8603]

Yes, his vitriol made that clear.

[@mitchellosmer1293]

---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? ---Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. ---Ecclesiastes 9:6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” ----James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. ---Job 14:10-12 But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. --****John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. ---Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. (Judgement on Judgement day) ---Acts 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died). ---Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. -----Job 14:12 So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. ----Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. >> WHERE in the Bible does it say GOD RESTED on the FIRST DAY of the WEEK to make that day special??? WHERE in the Bible does it say GOD BLESSED the FIRST DAY of the WEEK to make that day special??? WHERE in the Bible does it say GOD SANCTIFIED the FIRST DAY of the WEEK to make that day special??? WHERE in the Bible does it say GOD NAMED the FIRST DAY of the WEEK to make that day special??? WHERE in the Bible does it say GOD DECLARED the FIRST DAY of the WEEK as HIS HOLY DAY to make that day special??? Book, chapter and verse!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where in the bible is said Mary can hear our prayers? Book, chapter and verse Where in the bible is said Mary went to/will go to heaven? Book, chapter and verse Where in the bible is said Mary is a mediator/imtercessor? Book, chapter and verse Where in the bible is said Mary remained a virgin? Book, chapter and verse Where in the bible is said Mary was sinless? Book, chapter and verse Where in the bible is said Mary is to be worshiped.prayed to? Book, chapter and verse I KNOW absolutely NO Catholic will reply!!! If one does, every answer will be either out of context, or twisted scripture.

[@DjDieselLive1]

The gentleman handled the caller like a champ. Pure class. Great job fellas! Thanks for posting even the aggressive callers

[@dalepress1581]

Personally, I think the Catholic church needs to make an effort to correct the terminolgy used when we (and others) say we pray "to" Saints. I've never seen in that way and I think it would be more accurate to say that we pray "with" Saints. Just as we and others pray with our friends on earth. As for those who do not understand intercessory prayer and theological conclusions that are consistent with the word of God, I can only say that God does not teach in sound bites and that Jesus created the Church, and the Church created scripture through divine inspiration. I spent 55 years as a protestant and after all those years, finally came to understand Jesus' true purpose on earth. The true story of the Bible. That is, to come to earth in human form and redeem us. And to create his Church. So much of Jesus' life was to ensure the foundation of his Church. He chose the apostles, he chose the head of his Church and he gave them instruction on how to continue the Gospel. He could have easily just came down from heaven, dropped off a book, and said "good luck with that". In his infinite wisdom. however, God perceived the difficulties in the notion of choosing to live your by scripture, and scripture alone. Which would presuppose that such scripturalists undestand the context within which he spoke. That they understand who he was speaking to. Of course, most do not understand that context or choose to deny that context to shape scripture to their contemporary world view. Find the true Church of Jesus. Good luck on your journey.

[@cizzorzsonandy9773]

Pray originally means ask so no we do not

[@TheBrunarr]

I commend the patience you have with someone like this

[@timrichardson4018]

I began understanding the intercession of the saints better when I understood that it's not ONLY about my personal relationship with God. It's OUR relationship with God as well. Loving God, loving others, and loving self all go hand in hand. You can't separate them and be whole. Likewise, our salvation isn't only personal. It is interwoven with the salvation of the church as a whole. Therefore, we pray directly to God, and we also pray for one another. And those alive in the presence of God who are no longer present with us on the earth are in the best position to offer prayers of intersession on our behalf. Therefore, we ask them for their intercession all the more.

[@mitchellosmer1293]

---Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? ---Psalm 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. ---Ecclesiastes 9:6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. ---Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” ----James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. ---Job 14:10-12 But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. --****John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. ---Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. (Judgement on Judgement day) ---Acts 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died). ---Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. -----Job 14:12 So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. ----Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. --By your comment impies GOD IS A LIAR!!!!

[@JesusfoundedCatholicChurch]

I spent 55 years as a Protestant and converted to Catholicism. One day I had lost my Kindle that I took to mass because it has a missal on it with some prayers. I prayed to St Anthony for help. Within 5 minutes, I found it. I pray to Mary all the time. My prayers are always being answered. I am so blessed since becoming Catholic.

[@Alexander07865]

Mary can not hear your prayers. She is dead. Catholicism is a religion not a relationship with Jesus Christ. Repent and trust in Jesus

[@georgepierson4920]

@@Alexander07865 And yet, Jesus said that all are alive in God. Why do Protestants reject that teaching?

[@Samuellalduhzela]

They dont hold any Godlike authority, no one in the bible prayed or encourage to pray to the death. You can ask your brethren to pray for you because they are here and alive. Catholics please wake up to this paganism.

[@TheMockedy]

You prayed to a human?

[@FFG8G]

Anybody remember the story of the rich guy and the begger who had leprosy ?

[@sebastianhuang]

Thank you.. i will always use Mary and Saints to support my prayer!!

[@wordforever117]

I have had the "but they're dead" argument thrown at me over dinner with my Baptist friends. I was a little bit shocked by it. I replied..."..but we are Christians, right? We believe in life after death?". This got us onto the man made doctrine of the rapture 🤨

[@jobbins008]

It is a man made doctrine. Matt 6:9 instructs us to pray to the Father.

[@wordforever117]

@@jobbins008 Do you ask your friends to pray for you?

[@wordforever117]

@@jobbins008And life after death is absolutely not a man made doctrine. It is the founding principle of Christianity

[@Prov26-11]

@@jobbins008 So what do you say to another when they ask you to pray for them? What about people who send money to JimmySwaggart and ask for prayer - are they denied ? PS: the Saints in Heaven ARE NOT DEAD!! God doesn't surround Himself with dead souls.

[@Eye_of_a_Texan]

@@jobbins008 Do you understand that one verse in scripture does not stand on it's own? Each Book in the Bible is taken in it's totality along with it's exegetical setting that it was written in, the style and purpose with which it was written, and the audience it was written to. Why Did God create the Levitical priesthood in the first place if He didn't see a benefit to men praying for other men to Him? That's what a priest is. A priest takes our supplications to God. A prophet takes God's words to us. Again I say... God established the Old Testament priesthood, and the priesthood of the New Testament. We are all priests... therefore we are to take the words of men to God and intercede for them. We have different gifts from God, so our priesthoods have different qualities to them from one another. I don't even need the Bible for this. Any child on Earth older than 10 should be able to explain this basic concept.

[@coronabuster3611]

I just started asking the saints for intersession. I like it, it reminds me of the Bible verse, "When two or more are gathered in my name;...." I don't have anyone to pray with and sometimes I wouldn't want to share my request with regular people because they are small or silly, I feel free to share all my thoughts with the saints and ask that they intercede for me. I see death as a transition into a greater life, so it never enters my mind that I'm praying with dead people, I'm actually praying with people who are more alive than me.

[@paulmualdeave5063]

Our God is the God of the living. Why would people want to have a god of the dead? How is it logical to say, “Oh boy, I hope to die so Ill be dead in heaven, unable to pray anymore.” That’s inspiring.

[@fanofmansbestfriend]

This is a very well explained answer thank you Michael for calmly and politely answering all of the callers questions.

[@stevenkent1979]

It always amazes me when Protestants call Mary a sinner. Do they even know what they’re proposing by saying that? They’re saying God incarnated and grew in the belly of a sinful woman. It’s impossible.

[@G-MIP]

Correct- Adam and Eve were also created without sin, but later fell into sin. Mary is the new Eve, Jesus the new Adam. ”Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.” -2 Thessalonians 2:15 NAB ”Wherever the bishop shall appear, there, let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the *Catholic Church.* “ (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 8) -St. Ignatius of Antioch, 107 AD

[@scipherfilter5913]

That's the great mystery of the kingdom and that million-dollar question. Why would God the great God send His Holy Spirit (who is perfect and holy) unto sinful and corrupt people to be with them and dwell in them?

[@mitchellosmer1293]

quote---It always amazes me when Protestants call Mary a sinner. Do they even know what they’re proposing by saying that? They’re saying God incarnated and grew in the belly of a sinful woman. It’s impossible.--unquote That implies that Jesus grew in her womb until when? What about AFTER He wa born???? After Jesus was born, ALL Jewsih woman MUST give a sin offering for a male child!! A woman that gives birth IS UNCLEAN for 30 days after!!!!

[@mitchellosmer1293]

@@G-MIP So, you accept the word of a mere man over Christ??? book, chapter and verse of the name CAtholic in the bible.

[@nathankarn5557]

So Jesus couldn't be conceived perfectly in a sinful body but Mary could?

[@TheMOV13]

I've noticed over the years that some Christians, when talking about Christians they know, who have died, say things like "He's in glory now" or "He's in Heaven with Jesus now" or "He's in glory, standing in front of the throne now" etc... A short while later, those very same people will say "Why do you pray to the saints? THEY"RE DEAD"

[@eleanor9004]

Exactly 😅

[@southernlady1109]

Asking Virgin Mary and Saints for their prayers is for our benefit, as God heeds prayers of the just and their prayers prevail over many things. Pro 15:29, Jm 5:16 He said where two or more are gathered in His name, He is amongst them. Mt 18:20 To have an army of Saints praying with you and for you is Awesome! Their prayers are being offered to God on His throne. Rev4:10, 5:8, 6:9-11, 7:11-15, 8:3-4. He performed His first miracle at His Mothers request and He does not tell her no.

[@bernardauberson7218]

Les protestants ne sont pas des hommes de prières ! Leur fruits sont tout petits Qu’ils cessent, leur Mario- phobie les disqualifie!

[@seanrathmakedisciples1508]

I was born catholic and for 35 years prayed to the Blessed Virgin Mary, to the saints etc. But when I saw that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through Jesus then I repented I am now a disciple of the Lord Jesus while making other disciples on my journey with Jesus 24/7 John 14:6

[@G-MIP]

Catholics are the first Christians. The Catholic Church declared the Bible canon in 382 under Pope Damasus at the Council of Rome. Sadly-you never knew your Catholic faith, Bible or church history, or the importance of John 6…or you would have never left. “Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.” -John 6 NAB Jesus commands us to eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life. Only the consecrated hands of the successors to the Apostles have the authority to turn bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. It’s not symbolic. When the disciples left because of this teaching Jesus didn’t stop them and tell them it was symbolic. St. Paul says that some eat the Body of Christ in an unworthy manner eating and drinking damnation on themselves (sound symbolic?). Paul says… it makes some of you sick and some even die (can something symbolic make you sick and die). The early Christian’s believed in the real presence of Christ as the Catholics and Orthodox today still do. At every Mass Heaven and Earth meet and Jesus’ Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity feeds me and transforms me into His likeness. This too you are unable to see as you put your faith in teachings declared heretical by the chosen Apostles and the successor Bishops. Jesus, I am the bread of Life. St. Augustine: “What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ.” St. Justin Martyr: since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus.” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

[@davidcole333]

All you are doing is rebelling against what was taught to you as a child. You left the Catholic church, but you will now ultimately enter into a spiritual wasteland. 20 years from now, you will figure it out and come back. I'm sorry my friend, but your story is as old as time. The fact that you never truly believed, but just checked boxes, underscores that you never embraced your faith because it was taught to you and you didn't discover it for yourself. I'm sure you were baptized, confirmed, went to confession, attended mass, then started not attending mass, then eventually you left the church. If you truly believe that Catholics don't understand that "Jesus is the way, the truth and the life" then you NEVER were Catholic No church believes that more than the Catholic church.

[@daviddabrowski01]

As I reflect on this… it’s also not that God is incapable of answering my prayers. It’s that I’m incapable of adequately delivering my prayers to God. I’m still here, on earth, a sinner in my mire and my shortcomings. So I just don’t give myself that much credit. I would much rather give my prayer the mother of my Lord, the queen of the kingdom, than think myself capable of sauntering into His presence and dropping a boat load of requests. Not to be snarky but… I trust the prayers of the Saints and our Lady a lot more than the prayers of my mailman or hairdresser

[@julieelizabeth4856]

Well said. The Bible tells us the prayers of the righteous are powerful, and no one is more righteous than those already in Heaven.

[@peeposhake2607]

🙏Amen! Our Lady takes our prayers very seriously and she delivers them to our Lord with love and kindness. Pray the Rosary, take the Eucharist and go to confession as many times as possible, the cleaner the heart and the closer it is to our Lord's grace and will, the more our prayers are heard from the saints and angels, even one request done by our Lady to our Lord is extremely more powerful than any act of faith we can do on this earth to prove our faith is alive and to be heard, she's the Mother of God and she became our heavenly mother too when she was crowned as queen of the heavens and the Earth If Moses (a very loved and humble saint of the Lord) could pray by just having his hands raised in worship to praise the Lord and have that gesture decide the fate of an entire war, imagine how powerful the requests and prayers done to Christ through Mary are, they're the most powerful prayers to ever exist and we have a privilege and duty as Catholics to thank our Queen for it.

[@sugaralien]

Also as the body of Christ, He wants us to share in everything, suffering, salvation of souls, and glory. It's so beautiful.

[@sonyawilliams8098]

The caller was already against the idea of prayers to saints and Mary. He never intended to have his mind opened. Great job being b patient with him. And great explanation. I needed it.

[@Lulue_90]

EXCELLENT

[@ReasonandTheology]

Thanks

[@staceydecroo4963]

"We pray directly to God often..." We are told to pray ONLY to God throught Jesus!

[@sharkgaming4320]

Well even when you ask the saints to pray for you it still goes directly to god aka Jesus the father and the spirit

[@anthonyhurley1137]

Michael Lofton for President ✝️

[@ReasonandTheology]

lol

[@TriciaPerry-mz7tc]

He will be praying to Mary and deceased people in hell when HE FIND OUT HOW false and deceived he was. Satan is the most deceptive person to sell a poor soul Catholicism😢. It’s a mimicking of Christianity. They will never get the truth because they are sold another Gospel and NONE OF IT IS WRITTEN in the word of God. The caller is right Why pray to Jesus mother? Then he Michael uses human reasoning to answer the question of why they pray to Mary God is against the catholic faith.

[@yvonnestyer7197]

❤ 👍🙏🙏🙏 Awesome job, Michael 💯👏👏👏

[@hamalot100]

God created a covenant with Man. A covenant is a familial bond. Would a parent say to their kids, “don’t you dare ask your brothers and sisters for help, you only come to me or else !” Gods family with Man includes the Saints, Mary and those of us still on earth preparing for life with the beatific vision.

[@lisasaims3007]

It’s a form of mentoring, like the style of Jesus’s preaching while on Earth! How beautiful is that?

[@kurthasedd7923]

I have a similar back and forth with a buddy of mine. I'm Catholic, he's not protestant, but he just can't get behind praying to Saints. He is a bit more logical in his arguments, he believes Saints can hear you in some capacity and that they are capable of praying for you, but the crux of his argument is that he doesn't believe in asking others to pray for himself because he sees it as immodesty, asking someone for something. In addition to that both he and I agree that some Catholics take intercessory prayer a little bit too far and have turned Saints and Mary into idols, creating a pantheon rather than making distinct lines between God and those under God. But the death issue is a strong argument I find for Catholics to make and if there is a satisfactory Protestant answer to the question I haven't found it. Those in Heaven are not dead, mostly they have died, they have experienced death, but they are not dead. They live, that's the whole point of Jesus Christ, that's the whole point of the good news he has brought and the New Covenant. We do not pray to the dead, we pray to the living. Now if you want to get into the human details of Sainthood, by all means, I don't think every Saint has earned the title, at times I believe Sainthood has probably been some form of political tool for the Catholic Church and maybe some stories are straight up lies or fabrications. But this, once again, is an entirely different argument. I don't think you can argue the Sainthood of the Apostles or Angels in Heaven, I don't think you can say Mary isn't in Heaven, but others might be up for debate

[@ChaChaDancin]

What some Catholics do is not what the Church teaches. What the Church teaches is the relevant debate. (But I do agree with you that some Catholics misunderstand or are ignorant of actual Church teachings)

[@emoore1439]

Mary and the Saints are a gift from God and clearly a gift directly from God isn’t good enough for him

[@davidreagan1287]

So fitting that God would want to involve manifold unique persons of varying degrees in His Hierarchy.

[@KyleVaughan1996]

Doing great work

[@justin36004]

Michael has the patience of a saint. If I were in Michael’s place, lets just say I wouldn’t be too patient lol.

[@dynamic9016]

Thanks much for this video.

[@ST-ov8cm]

1. In Luke 16 Jesus tells the story of the rich man asking (praying to) Abraham (who is long dead) to relieve his suffering and to send Lazarus to earth to tell his brothers to repent. 2. In 1 Samuel 28 Saul prays to the dead prophet, Samuel. 3. In Jeremiah 15:1 the Bible casually assumes that great prophets like Moses and Samuel would be praying for those on earth after they died. 4. In 2 Timothy 1: 16-18 Paul prays for the dead. 5. In Acts 9: 36-41 Peter prays to the dead Tabitha. 6. In John 11: 41-43 Jesus prays for the dead Lazarus and then to him.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

Can't tell if your english is just not good, or if you actually believe that. Jesus never prayed to Lazarus, and asserting that Jesus prayed to anyone other than God is a lie and blasphemous... Samuel REBUKED saul for summoning him, and he used a senace to do it, which waa actual witchcraft. So you think it's ok to summon the dead?

[@ProtestantsRUs]

Jermeiah 15:1 has absolutely nothing to do with praying to the dead, what are you talking about?

[@ST-ov8cm]

@@ProtestantsRUs. You are correct. And, in agreement with my original post.

[@461weavile]

Your second example is probably not one I would mention in a positive light, lol.

[@Robert-bm2jr]

I actually heard this call on my way home one day. I distinctly remember this caller. He wasn't willing to listen. And nothing that Michael Lofton said was going to change his mind. The response was very thought out, and it was at least worth consideration. I'm often taken back by how much hatred some protestants can have towards the church.

[@rexlion4510]

Asking friends is totally unlike praying to saints. You cannot legitimately compare the two! The deceased saints have run their race and now they rest with Christ; they no longer are under a call to perform service to God. When Paul was about to be killed, he wrote to Timothy, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith." Rev. 14:3 says in part, "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours..." Stop assuming that God is making everyone in heaven run their butts off in some divine 'messenger service', as if God were somehow in need of help to keep track of your prayers! Besides, only God is omniscient and thereby capable of hearing all the prayers of all people (which includes mental, nonverbal prayer); you have no scriptural support to think that Mary or the deceased saints are capable of hearing the billions of prayers that are directed toward them. People are finite created beings of limited knowledge and presence, whereas God is omniscient and omnipresent. God is therefore capable of knowing all your thoughts and intentions, all your prayers (even the unspoken ones), and how they should be answered. But deceased saints are utterly unequipped to hear the thousands of prayers (both spoken and unspoken) directed toward them every day. Praying to saints only makes sense if you attribute Godlike qualities to them. That passage in Revelation does not say or mean what Lofton implies. Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, Rev 8:4 and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Rev 8:5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake. This is all symbolism, first off; it's not entirely literal. Second, it is an angel, not deceased saints, who deals with these prayers of the living saints on earth. So that completely shoots down Lofton's idea, unless he is arguing in favor of praying to angels! The martyrs under the altar are aware of general conditions on the earth, perhaps. But nothing in the passage implies that they are receiving prayers from the living saints or passing them on to God. The martyrs simply know that a long time has passed, and they urge God to bring about the promised Second Advent and the Great White Throne Judgment. Does that sound like intercession to anyone? Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. Rev 6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Rev 6:11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Lofton utilizes loosey-goosey hermeneutics. Pathetic hermeneutics, really. But most Catholics are low-Bible-information people who are easily fooled by such antics. The only reason to pray to Mary or the deceased saints is if someone has weak, deficient faith in God. When someone doubts God's willingness to listen to our prayers and to do what is best for us in response to those prayers, that person might think that he can get Mary to twist her son's arm for them or get some saint to bug Jesus so He'll finally help out. This is a lack of trust in God and in His written word. 1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. 1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. 1Jn 5:15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him. One of the problems Catholics face is, they don't know that they have eternal life. In fact, the Roman Catholic Church insists that one cannot know those and cannot have any assurance of salvation during one's lifetime. Yet John, the beloved disciple of Jesus, wrote by divine inspiration, "I write these things to you who believe...that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life." (RC doctrine is proven by Scripture to be un-Biblical and heretical.) Any Christian who knows that he has eternal life also has confidence that God hears whatever we ask and that He will grant our requests in the way that is best for all concerned (which isn't always the way we expected, but that's beside the point). So if RCs were properly taught that they can know they have the promise of eternal life, and if they truly were spiritually regenerated (born again) by the indwelling Holy Spirit, they would have confidence that God (who is right there with them) most definitely hears and responds to their prayers, and they would feel no need or desire to leave voice mail for deceased people in faraway heaven!

[@Pickup_man_1973]

Mt 17:3-4, Mk 9:4, Lk 9:30 Jesus talked to Elijah & Moses in front of the Apostles. 1 Cor 11 we are to imitate Christ. Exactly! To go even further, do you imitate Christ and talk to the saints? Dan, the Saints are alive in heaven! 🫳🏻 🎤

[@kindredspirits5821]

I understand now with this answer because I was so confused because I didn't understand why you prayed to them and not go to God directly. Because it says there should be no other God's before him. So this answer helps me a lot thank you ❤ 😁 I have wondered this forever.

[@xeel1067]

this Dan fellow got a little butthurt

[@bellanegrin3915]

Great answer!

[@marynellessen8790]

Oh my, the caller expresses anger, hate, and provocation (as demons operate)

[@rileystoe4338]

His conduct was indeed not good, but we shouldn't call other people demons, it most likely will not sway them towards you, and will probably make them resent you even more. It is best to be patient, understanding, and loving as we do our best to correct their erroneous ways.

[@ProtestantsRUs]

You guys are actual lunatics. He literally just asked questions and sounded confused because the answers he got were just confusing. Any interruption was clearly just a phone delay and unintentional, as both parties stopped once they realize the other is talking

[@johnbrion4565]

Thanks Michael for all you do!

[@aarona.8219]

Let’s go Mike-Kwon!!!!

[@ReasonandTheology]

lol you watched the goon show!

[@victoriavass9945]

Excellent response.

[@danvankouwenberg7234]

Classic.

[@fredp6691]

Fantastic answer

[@DrChaunceyBlevins]

Caller got so frustrated he hung up 😅

[@Thewatcher-watches]

That moment when he says "so your saying God isn't enough?" while trying to escape at the impending realization he asks those still wrapped in the mortal flesh for sin in comparison to asking those who have been purified in the presence of God for prayers.. That was me at one point very recently. Let me also say, the calm, gentle demeanor of Catholics while holding to the truth is 100% one of those things that absolutely pulled me towards Catholocism

[@georgepierson4920]

The following is rejected by Protestants because God says that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive. Moses at the Burning Bush Exodus 3:3-6 3 Moses was keeping the flock of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian; he led his flock beyond the wilderness, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of a bush; he looked, and the bush was blazing, yet it was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, ‘I must turn aside and look at this great sight, and see why the bush is not burned up.’ 4 When the Lord saw that he had turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, ‘Moses, Moses!’ And he said, ‘Here I am.’ 5 Then he said, ‘Come no closer! Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.’ 6 He said further, ‘I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. The Question about the Resurrection Mark 12:18-27 18 Some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him and asked him a question, saying, 19 ‘Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies, leaving a wife but no child, the man shall marry the widow and raise up children for his brother. 20 There were seven brothers; the first married and, when he died, left no children; 21 and the second married her and died, leaving no children; and the third likewise; 22 none of the seven left children. Last of all the woman herself died. 23 In the resurrection whose wife will she be? For the seven had married her.’ 24 Jesus said to them, ‘Is not this the reason you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the story about the bush, how God said to him, “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”? 27 He is God not of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong.’ The Question about the Resurrection Luke 20:27-40 27 Some Sadducees, those who say there is no resurrection, came to him 28 and asked him a question, ‘Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies, leaving a wife but no children, the man shall marry the widow and raise up children for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers; the first married and died childless; 30 then the second 31 and the third married her, and so in the same way all seven died childless. 32 Finally the woman also died. 33 In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife will the woman be? For the seven had married her.’ 34 Jesus said to them, ‘Those who belong to this age marry and are given in marriage; 35 but those who are considered worthy of a place in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. 36 Indeed they cannot die any more, because they are like angels and are children of God, being children of the resurrection. 37 And the fact that the dead are raised Moses himself showed, in the story about the bush, where he speaks of the Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. 38 Now he is God not of the dead, but of the living; for to him all of them are alive.’ 39 Then some of the scribes answered, ‘Teacher, you have spoken well.’ 40 For they no longer dared to ask him another question.

[@jerryappleton6855]

The caller is a perfect example of prejudice and bigotry: - he already assumes what those he despises think (in this case, Catholics) so no matter what one says to him and no matter how clear, precise and irrefutable Lofton speaks, the caller will always revert to his prejudice: "So you mean this (insert his pre-concieved opinion no argument will change his mind about)".

[@Dirty-D]

The guy on the phone made 100% logical sense. Everything that was in response by the Catholic person was far-fetched. Nothing was based In fact, he kept talking about praying for the living friends? Your relationship is directly between you and God that would undermine God’s ability if we had to go through saints to assist us. You would be implying that God is not capable of directly answering your prayers so he needs assistance from the Saints.

[@toddlangis3122]

The Communion of the Saints noted in the Apostles Creed - the whole community of faithful followers of Christ, living and dead, past, present and future, as Jesus says: the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob is the God of the living (Matt. 22:32). Angles ministered to Christ (Matt. 4:11), and Jesus was in communion speaking with Moses and Elijah, as they were assisting Christ of His departure (Luke 9:30-36) at the Mount of Transfiguration. There’s also the Book of Tobit of communal angelic assistance of presenting the prayers to God (as in Revelation 8:4) and physically helping Tobit, as Raphael disguised as Azarias (“Yahweh helps”). But we know Protestants don’t believe the full canonization of Scripture, so they are unable to know what the entire Bible says on the topic.

[@PVAPlayy]

As a non-Catholic, who was wondering the same thing, this was a decent answer by Michael. Although, I do ultimately agree with the caller: while praying here on Earth, it's not uncommon to have others pray for you. They are mortal; they are human; they are empathetic to your being. It makes perfect sense to ask for them to pray for you, as their prayers can give you comfort and their belief brings glory to God. However, to laud that the Heavenly somehow have even a marginally better effect on your prayers is illogical for a number of reasons. One: we already know that they are in Heaven with God, meaning that they're true believers who were saved. Two: they are no longer human or mortal, so their relationship with you has objectively diminished. One could--and should--simply pray to God Himself, as He hears us.

[@G-MIP]

There is only one body of Christ with Jesus as the head. …There is not a body in Heaven and a separate body on earth. The Saints in Heaven are alive- not dead. Jesus commands us to pray for one another. …The ancient meaning of the words “to pray” also means “to ask.” That’s why on old English TV shows someone might say, “I pray thee to return safety.” I.e I ask thee to return safely. The prayer of a righteous man avails much. The Saints prayers are more powerful as they are perfect and righteous. End result- Pray to God and also ask your earthly family and friends to pray for you…and your Heavenly family and friends to pray for you. After all, was Moses and Elijah dead at their appearance on the Mount of Transfiguration? Heaven hadn’t even been opened up and yet they were still alive. How much more alive are they now in Heaven?! (Revelations 8:4)

[@Philip__325]

If a Protestant says “RIP” then they’ve just prayed for a “dead person”.

[@djo-dji6018]

"God is the God of the living" "But they are dead!"

[@G-MIP]

There is only one body of Christ with Jesus as the head. …There is not a body in Heaven and a separate body on earth. The Saints in Heaven are alive- not dead. Jesus commands us to pray for one another. …The ancient meaning of the words “to pray” also means “to ask.” That’s why on old English TV shows someone might say, “I pray thee to return safety.” I.e I ask thee to return safely. The prayer of a righteous man avails much. The Saints prayers are more powerful as they are perfect and righteous. End result- Pray to God and also ask your earthly family and friends to pray for you…and your Heavenly family and friends to pray for you. After all, was Moses and Elijah dead at their appearance on the Mount of Transfiguration? Heaven hadn’t even been opened up and yet they were still alive. How much more alive are they now in Heaven?! (Revelations 8:4)

[@csongorarpad4670]

3:02 "why do you pray to a woman" *Gregorian chanting stops* "...Behold your mother" ... Pray that this caller may come to know the truth and open his heart to seek the loving embrace and guidance of the Ever Blessed Virgin Mary - that he may entrust himself to her, that her immaculate heart may show him, and all of us sinners, the way to her son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ

[@mulipolatuuumataafatiufeaa4964]

Hilarious and right, brother.

[@Viktor467-i1p]

Jesus pray for us.