Calvinism & Apologetics DON'T MIX! | Leighton Flowers | Soteriology 101

[@peterfox7663]

24:16 My 10 year old son last night asked me "Why did you leave your old church?" and I told him "because they were teaching some things I don't believe, so I wanted to find one that does". He replied "Can you give me an example of what you mean?". I told him we can talk about it another time, as he is new to our family as a foster child and Jesus is very new to him and he isn't firm in faith, and he's not ready to learn about this stuff... What Joe says here is a PRIME example of why I am not in that church and don't want him exposed to this devastating lie yet. I'm not an emotional person, but I get a little choked up thinking about his possible response to this - "You mean, God might not want to save me?"

[@tabazlover]

When the atheist asked about when God determined to eternally torment his kids, he would be fine with it because it comes vertically. Yet, if anyone else tries to hurt or torment his kids horizontally, he would do his uttermost to protect his kids and fight. The problem is that God would have determined the horizontal torment, too...meaning, he has to accept and glorify God for what the horizontal tormentor would do to his kids, not fight against it. So all for the pleasure of God's glory, according to the calvinist. It is so sad, and it hurts to watch, just as Dr. Flowers did.

[@krissyyoung9264]

Such a good point.

[@primeobjective5469]

Exactly. Tortured those kids, "for the GOOD PLEASURE of His WILL to glorify Hmself."

[@joshuamoberly9291]

I do know Joe Ensley personally. Served on a board with him at St. Francis, Kansas. Joe is pure evil and I pray for him everyday and would ask everyone to pray for him and his family. I have never witnessed someone that professes as a Christian sow more discord and division than Joe Ensley. The only thing that Joe is good at is telling lies. Honestly I don't know how he keeps up with them all. I pray for any church he ever pastors. He has moved on to a church in Pennsylvania and I pray for that congregation as well. Joe Ensley I pray that you turn back to the tru gospel of Jesus Christ.

[@1Tim24]

Very good point

[@sampowellmusic]

Excellent point. He would be fighting against “Gods sovereign will”. Much like Paul is strangely out of Gods will in desiring all his countrymen to be saved when clearly that is not Gods will.

[@cm2019]

This sort of apologetic/theology is why I almost walked away from the church, and is one of the reasons many of the people I knew growing up have walked away. And this gentleman doesn't seem to care about those people, because his version of God doesn't. But Christ wept for His enemies, He wept over Jerusalem. 😢

[@Solideogloria00]

Calvinism seem to be demonic, it is driving people away from faith and killing Christians’ faith which leads them to abandon Christ.

[@jeremiah5319]

Why did Jesus say he wept over Jerusalem?

[@brendaleehayter8464]

@@jeremiah5319 because he loves her.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

god isn't real, but god doesn't care, it's a game to him isn't it. me makes the rules but for some reason he can't change the rules, yeah sure. why not make two universes, one for sinners and one for god's suck ups, they need know nothing of each other, no one burns, everyone is loved. no, humans like the idea of judgement, humans invented the ultimate judge. thank goodness religion is dying, and flowers is helping it on it's way with this drivel.

[@askbrettmanning]

@@HarryNicNicholas so the meaning of life is....???

[@lmorter7867]

This is a perfect sample of how messed up Calvinism is and why its so important to expose it for what it really is.

[@KeithKong973]

Amen to that

[@AlexanderosD]

These results of Calvinism are so heartbreaking. It truly can be a form of gatekeeping the Gospel and that is something that I passionately dislike. I know your heart about that as well Leighton. Keep sharing Christ and showing love, brother! Thank you for this channel!

[@erixxu3260]

exactly agree.🌷👍💝

[@gk.4102]

​@@RenardGarzaro Why are you complaining against God's decrees? According to Calvinism, Leighton is "fixated" on Calvinism because that's what God decreed for him to do and he can't do otherwise. The irrationality of Calvinism is astounding, sad.

[@ROTAX1]

@@RenardGarzaro you have been duped and suckered by Calvinism

[@leialoha70]

Breaks my heart. A 34 year old mother of two said this exact response to me in defending TULIP. She said she would praise God even if her children are chosen for hell. 😢 I pray that I can have more conversations with her because she is missing out on so much joy.

[@celiasleigh2805]

This is my dad as well. It hurt so bad when I first was saved because I really had idolized my dad and thought he is so wise and was pretty much my frame of reference. Kept thinking maybe I'm wrong for not loving God that much. Or what if I'm actually wrong because that would mean I hate God because this is something I believe is evil. And also like do you not care about anybody but yourself?

[@dw6528]

DW: This is similar to what John Piper announced in church sermon one time concerning his two biological sons. One of them - now grown up - is pretty much an Atheist. . But there is something to notice about these statements made by Calvinists You will notice they are happy to declare they do not have CERTAINTY of anyone else's election But just watch them - when you remind them - their doctrine does not grant them CERTAINTY of their election Just sit back and watch the chicken feathers fly! If Piper were to stand before his congregation and tell them the TRUTH - that he himself has NO CERTAINTY of election - and he can wake up in the lake of fire - as much as anyone - his congregation would connect the dots. They're all in that same boat. Calvin's god - per the doctrine - creates a large percentage of believers - specifically for the lake of fire - for his good pleasure. These believers are called CHAFF believers - whom he deceives - giving them a FALSE SENSE of salvation. John Calvin -quote But the Lord....instills into their minds such *A SENSE* ..as can be felt without the Spirit of adoption. (Institutes 3.2.11) -quote He illumines *ONLY FOR A TIME* to partake of it; then he....strikes them with even greater blindness (Institutes 3.24.8) These Calvinists will go through their whole life - having a constant stream of FALSE PERCEPTIONS of salvation. They will eventually wake up in the lake of fire - and then realize they were created as CHAFF believers. All their desperate chatter about having a "so called" ASSURANCE of salvation - is nothing more than someone who cannot hold his own belief system with honesty

[@emf49]

It’s a shame because these people really believe they are devoted to God and don’t understand they are actually devoted to a ‘teaching’. Some Calvinists I know accentuate ‘sacrifice’ above mercy. It often seems like a very works based ideology. 😢

[@alightinthedarkages9494]

It's seems borderline psychotic doesn't it? "Sure I'm fine with God creating my beloved dear child for the purpose of eternal torment in hell!" Are you hearing yourself? It makes me think there is some sort of mental disorder at work in a hardcore Calvinist, something that can sustain such maddening cognitive dissonance.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

every time religists argue an angel turns queer. god is imaginary, hell is part of the scam.

[@saraircrew8517]

I hope more consistent calvinist like this make videos so calvinism will go to the wayside even faster!

[@elijahmorris9864]

Every single Calvinist in the entire world needs to see this video.

[@jeremiah5319]

Do you think if they all saw Leighton Flowers speak their illness could be cured? You can pray for them, right? But better that you pray that the Devil doesn't steal you away from God, because you believe he's the power in this world. You're wrong about that. Sorry you misunderstood what Jesus came to do. He didn't fail on any point. His prophecies - all of them - were fulfilled exactly as he foretold. If not, then you're believing on a false prophet.

[@elijahmorris9864]

@@jeremiah5319 Did you watch this video all the through, from beginning to end, without skipping any of it?

[@brendaleehayter8464]

@@jeremiah5319 did you watch this video at all, Because your statement has no relevance to the topic.

[@elijahmorris9864]

@@brendaleehayter8464 Calvinists speak the same language but have different dictionary. In his mind he made some really profound statement.

[@koraegis]

@@jeremiah5319 💯🙏

[@DamonNomad82]

Another great video, another swarm of indignant Calvinists in the comment section contradicting their own system by grumbling against God's sovereign decree that the video would be made!

[@dw6528]

DW: Totally hilarious! I still say God gave Calvinism to mankind as a form of entertainment! :-D

[@JohnK557]

The cognitive dissonance is next level.

[@joshuawoodin]

Yes calvinism in theology is one of the most harsh versions of tribalism I have ever seen. Like all heresies they have to say, no we did not invent this, jesus himself taught this. I am a provisionist and it's extremely ignorant and prideful fir so many people planting their flag and (metaphorically) dying on the hill to fight against freewill. It's as silly for people dividing over a young vs old earth age. All Christians need to learn primary topics and all the ones that are not salvific like freewill and the age and shape of the earth. I personally see from genesis- revelation it obviously teaches freewill. Calvinism fights a boogeyman of freewill that is so odd to me.

[@dw6528]

@@RenardGarzaro DW: Yes that is correct. . There is something called "Tough Love" also to be taken into consideration for the sake of the individual involved. And the wonderful part of that - is how the Lord does the work of deliverance - for minds which have been ensnared. Blessings!

[@Bamifun]

@@RenardGarzaroLighten up. Levity rather than venom softens criticism.

[@Whaat-in-the-world]

WOW. Bless you, Dr. Flowers. That was really really hard to listen to. Lord have mercy on this grandma and on this Calvinist. Thank you for what you do!

[@GhostBearCommander]

I liken Calvinists sharing the Gospel to the following analogy: A man takes a job as a lifeguard at a pool park. The boss informs him that his job is (obviously) to prevent people from drowning. Furthermore, the boss also informs him that there are two swimming sections to the pool park. On the East side is a “VIP section” where there is literally no water in order to prevent the customers from drowning. On the West side of the pool park is the “non-VIP” section. Customers here are literally given cement shoes and tossed into the deep end like in some kind of Mafia movie. The lifeguard, horrified by this strange arrangement, is even more shocked to find out that each customer is arbitrarily assigned their section by the boss before even entering the park, and this is done based on seemingly no criteria whatsoever. The boss informs the understandably traumatized lifeguard that he ought not worry. This is all being done according to his sovereign wisdom in order to create the best pool experience possible, and that none of the VIPs will ever be in danger of drowning, but the non-VIPs will drown no matter what. “Now, m’boy!” says the crazy pool boss. “Go prevent people from drowning! It is your great commission!” Confused, scared, and frustrated, the lifeguard can only utter, “…How?!” This is a perfect one-for-one description of Evangelism within the Calvinistic framework.

[@AlexanderosD]

"That's not REAL Calvinism! You just don't understand Calvinism!" ...refuse to elaborate. 😅 That's not a bad analogy. I've noticed a theme of Calvinism: Consistent Calvinism collapses under its own inconsistency.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Great analogy.

[@k7stingray]

The problem with the analogy is that the distinction between the two types is made clear. On the Calvinist view, there is no clear way of distinguishing between the elect and non-elect. The mission that is given is to preach the gospel to all people, knowing that God will use that preaching as a means to accomplish His purpose in saving the elect.

[@kevinjypiter6445]

@ k7stingray ooh I love your suggestion to the analogy. Even better! The boss can give the lifeguard a blindfold so he can’t be sure to whom he is evangelizing!

[@k7stingray]

@kevinjypiter6445 It's not a suggestion. I was pointing out that it is a faulty analogy. If the analogy were accurately portraying Calvinism, the lifeguard wouldn't need a blindfold. He would just need a heart that loves the boss enough to do the job the boss gave him to do, and a desire to see others come to know that same kind of love.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

47:47 This sweet 'granny' lady, as misguided as she is about God, has enough wisdom and genuine concern for children in general, and this man's children in particular, that, (religion aside), she lovingly cautions him about the danger of emotional damage to his kids while he is literally defending the idea that he may be the very instrument God is using to inflict upon his own children an even greater punishment in eternity if they are 'predestined' to suffer in Hell. THIS IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF BAALGATE which passed over the heads of the pearl clutching Calvinists who came out of the woodwork to condemn Leighton, Warren, and 'that other guy'🤣🤣for saying what this guy is demonstrating.

[@tuObvii]

21:55 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:17 NIV) I guess Jesus wasn't a Calvinist...

[@AdventureSMBW]

😂 Well put

[@HarryNicNicholas]

jesus wasn't related to god. god is imaginary. why we still have to debate a god who has NEVER EVER shown up when invited i don't know.

[@davefinstad2979]

@@HarryNicNicholas What do you mean when you say 'Shown up'?

[@jeremystephens6048]

I find it odd that Calvinist doesn’t see the pride issue in their interpretations.

[@primeobjective5469]

Pride is blinding.

[@benjaminofperrin]

They were pre-determined not to see it...

[@DamonNomad82]

Calvinism has a built in smoke screen to obscure the towering arrogance it builds in those who follow it. Their "worm theology" that tears humanity down in a failed effort to "build God up" (as if He needed building up and wasn't already perfect) allows them to bury their heads in the sand about their own arrogance and pretend they are "humble", saying things to the effect of "you're a worthless worm and so am I!" which is a terrible insult to God, who made humanity in His image!

[@celiasleigh2805]

I was watching this silly tv show ( young Sheldon). And one episode Sheldon is exploring religions. He asks his best friend about his beliefs( he's Catholic). I don't remember what the friend said but Sheldon responded with I don't have any sin. To which the friend said than you have the sin of Pride. And I honestly think that is so accurate.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

they are religious, religious people ALL think they are right cos they all think god cannot be wrong. god is imaginary, so is hell, for goodness sake stop this silliness.

[@ChandlerTC]

Calvinists follow in a pattern clearly described in Scripture. In Jesus’ day, there also was a special religious group who considered themselves the chosen ones, and demonstrated their status with deep intellectual learning and overtly pious living. If you want to hear how Jesus viewed this group, read Matthew 23.

[@DamonNomad82]

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." (Matthew 23:15, NKJV). That sounds an awful lot like the Calvinist way of "evangelizing". They can't openly preach Calvin to unbelievers, since that doesn't produce any new Calvinists, only doubly resolved unbelievers. As a result, they like to "preach like an Arminian and teach like a Calvinist", meaning they insincerely preach the actual Biblical Gospel they disagree with, then take advantage of the trust of the new converts they win to Christianity and corrupt them into Calvinism...

[@ChandlerTC]

@@DamonNomad82 Great point. It reminds me of an illustration a pastor shared about a church that had two signs on it. Above the entrance on the outside were the words of Gospel invitation - Come to me, I am the Way, believe and be saved. Once on the inside, there was the second sign of Gospel assurance - I have chosen you, you are mine, I died and live for you. This is the Gospel message of Scripture.

[@DamonNomad82]

@@ChandlerTC I went to a Christian high school that was multi-denominational and my freshman Bible class teacher happened to be a Calvinist (though he was excellent in other regards and wasn't forceful or obnoxious about his Calvinism) and he used that exact same illustration! Thankfully, I was always inquisitive about theology (to the point my mom had to give me a simplified version of "the Talk" when I was a preschooler so that she could answer the questions I had about the Virgin Birth) and had already been taught the basics of the weaknesses of Calvinism, so I wasn't swayed. Not that I argued with the teacher or anything, I was a bit too much of a "goody two-shoes" and respected the teacher too much to start drama like that. I just asked my parents and grandparents about it after school.

[@AzariahWolf]

Appropriately, the group's name rhymes with heresies!

[@sheilasmith7779]

Is not "overtly pious living," human choice to obey God? Human choice, and action, not a random, arbitrary act of God. The belief in God choosing humans before they are born to heaven or hell, is an "eny, meny, miny, mo," theology. No scripture supports this theology.

[@KevElder]

A brother and sister brought Calvinism into my Sunday school class. Trying to be a loving class, we let them speak and explain their theology. It lasted for ~ 2 years. The more they talked, the more confused and angry we became! Finally they left. They clearly understood we were not buying their false teaching, and they were wearing out their welcome. The class, although we didn’t want to lose a brother and sister, just didn’t want them in the class anymore. The gentleman was extremely smart, so much smarter than me. We both became believers in our 50’s, we had so much in common. But when he started throwing the TULI into his teaching, the complete nonsense and contradictions were maddening! Our class’s best defense against Calvinism - was to let them talk.

[@millsm43]

The best defense against Calvinism is simply to investigate the TULIP. If only one of the letters fails, then they all fail. It took me all of 5 minutes to debunk the devils flower.

[@DamonNomad82]

@@millsm43 True! Every petal of that noxious weed is logically dependent on the other four being true. Remove even one, and the whole plant wilts!

[@askbrettmanning]

False teaching? I don't think so.

[@AdventureSMBW]

@@DamonNomad82Not really. Perserverence of the Saints stands on its own, just for a different reason than Calvinists say. It stands because He gave us eternal life, not because of predeterminism. But yeah the other 4 are somewhat inseparable

[@bobbyadkins6983]

Two years was way too long to allow it to go on.

[@johntheo4729]

Someone ELSE needs to reach out to this granny.

[@rickwasson9233]

Sadness heaped upon sadness for this. This Calvinist has as much compassion for one of his children, as a scrap of wood that’s lost its usefulness. Feel so sad for him and his family.

[@askbrettmanning]

False accusation. This is completely untrue and shameful.

[@elijahmorris9864]

On the one hand it seems he could have said; “You don’t have to be a Calvinist to be a Christian.” It would have been nice to hear him say that. But On the other hand; he is extremely consistent, he gave the actual Calvinist answers to the questions. He gave the real Calvinist answers. He didn’t tiptoe around, he gave real Calvinist answer. So I don’t know what to say, he can be consistent and give terrible answers or be inconsistent and give much better answers. This is why Calvinism in/and/of itself is the problem.

[@emf49]

Hardcore Calvinists like John Piper believe Calvinism IS the gospel so where does that leave the rest of Christendom? Before leaving my Calvinist church, I told my pastor I didn’t agree with Calvinism and his response was “I guess you weren’t predestined to believe it!” In other words I can’t disagree based on the study of scripture and church history (using my brain and discernment) but God determined beforehand that I wouldn’t believe it. What utter nonsense. I’ve been following the Lord longer than he’s been alive but as far as he is concerned he’s right and I’m just not willing to believe a hard truth about God. 😮

[@HarryNicNicholas]

but it's still christianity, so deal with it, your religion makes no sense.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@emf49 isn't god "personal"?? why don't you have it in writing from god what is what, i think you all make this crap up and are too dumb to realise god isn't talking to you at all.

[@vickiandersen7229]

Good Lord. Imagine this father gathering his children together each evening for their family devotions, then walking away pleased with his 100% success rate, thinking "What a privilege and an honor to be used by God to add to the condemnation of whichever of these little one that'd been chosen for an eternity in hell."

[@elijahmorris9864]

Saddest part would be if his children believe that the Bible teaches Calvinism and reject God because of it. Then the doctrine of reprobation becomes “a self fulfilling prophecy.”

[@HarryNicNicholas]

imagine a father who says don't eat this thing i put right in front of you. imagine a father deliberately making their son and daughter with a low IQ and then blaming them for not paying attention, imagine a father NOT putting a fence around the very sweets he told them not to eat. god is dumb cos god is made up by dumb people. maybe it's MY fault i am the way i am, but god DESIGNED adam and eve, and he blames them, and ME, for HIS crapola design. and who teaches snakes to talk ffs? religion is silly.

[@askbrettmanning]

False. We preach the gospel to our children and believe God has set them apart to hear the blessings of the covenant and trust God His blessings are for "us and our household". No calvinist preaches like you've represented.

[@elijahmorris9864]

@@askbrettmanning maybe you believe whole households are saved but that doesn’t mean that all Calvinists believe that if you watched the video the Calvinist in the video clearly believed that it was possible that one or more of his children could have been reprobated in eternity past.

[@TyehimbaJahsi]

The one thing I can NEVER perceive in ANY Calvinist preaching is the LOVE of God.

[@jobrown8146]

I nearly fell into Calvinism but the God of love that I could see in the Bible didn't line up with what Calvinists believe.

[@ChandlerTC]

@@RenardGarzaro God’s justice was borne by Christ on the cross and will be experienced by those who choose to reject his love. But it will be their fault, not his.

[@jeremiah5319]

"The one thing I can NEVER perceive in ANY Arminianist preaching is the LOVE of Calvinists." Ouch!!

[@sheilaf8481]

The Calvinist God exemplifies a love totally foreign to ours. How can we imitate Him?

[@ChandlerTC]

@@sheilaf8481 I agree with you, but for different reasons. I love all my children and grandchildren and continue to help them grow in their faith. I want them to be with Jesus for eternity. Because I love them. But apparently the God of Calvinism, in his sovereignty and for his glory, can in his love choose for them to be damned from eternity. Nothing we can do about it. So tell us again how the love of the God of Calvinism is better than ours.

[@sampowellmusic]

I love how Calvinists on one hand will say man can play no part in salvation. It is all of God. But they have no trouble following that up with “it is my great privilege and honor to be used of God to bring some believers to repentance.

[@dustinpaulson1123]

There is nothing "good" in the "good news" of Calvinism. It's just that simple. This is not a secondary issue. What the news is, why it's good, Who it's from and who it's for IS the gospel. And what they preach IS NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD.

[@blackwater642]

True. It’s hardly good news for sinners to learn that God hates them.

[@losnfjslefn8857]

The fruit of Calvinism, particularly their interpretation of Romans 9, has resulted in atheists that then go on to social media to convince people why they should turn away from God... 😢

[@celiasleigh2805]

Which is how you know it's false. Because you will know them by their fruit. Its not about the fruit of the person(ie how much they sin or not)) but of the message.

[@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg]

If God had chosen to reveal the names of the 2 people in Revelation 20:10, would that have been proof to you of unconditional damnation? ‭Revelation 20:10 NKJV‬ [10] The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[@knxcholx]

@@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg why do you keep repeating yourself?

[@shepherd7744]

And this here is the plain and absolutely clear illustration of the dangers of calvinism. This lady has FAR more compassion, understanding, rational thought processes than the overall theme of calvinism, this video shows it perfectly. And she brought up my main complaint against calvinism, it hurts, damages and destroys the children of calvinists or the young new believer that is struggling with sin, and come to the conclusion that they are the unelect, destroys them, i have spoken and counseled them. That is why i bring up all the time, even if the calvinist appears gentle, loving and kind, their systems destroys people, and i do not approve of their beliefs as my brother, the individual may be my brother in Christ, but I refuse to fully embrace them while they preach and teach another gospel, i call them out in love, but sternly, not with loud speach, but direct hard hitting questions, just like this atheist was doing. I actually respect her thought process far more than the calvinisy, she is obviously hurt and bitter at Gid for the losses in her life, which could be completely explained through scripture with this broken and evil world, NOT what God created it to be, WE accomplished ALL this pain, and hurt through OUR sin and rebellion, NOT His love. Man this video got me going, really angers me with these arrogant, narcissistic calvinists. The words out of this man's mouth could crush his own children and strike them with fear that they mayNEVER vome to the love and goodness of our Father and Lord.......

[@Grounded_InThe_Gospel1]

I have a question, how can you claim that they may be a brother in Christ, yet call them out for teaching and preaching a false gospel? The very gospel you are calling them out on, is what they hold to firmly, that's the gospel they place their faith in. Which would ultimately mean, they hold to a false gospel. I ask this in all sincerity. I understand that Calvinism is not a one stop shop, they aren't all the same, but TULIP, or several points in it, changes the Gospel entirely.

[@shepherd7744]

@@Grounded_InThe_Gospel1 as I understand your point, you have to understand that the calvinist does have belief in Christ, they have been mislead by Augustinian/gnostic philosophy on how they came to faith. But I do believe that alot of them are believers, it is their systematic theology that they have become ideologues of that causes the problems, with sometimes their own spirituality, or young immature believers, or even unbelievers, as the system is a horrible list of contradictions and autrocities laid at the feet of our beautiful Heavenly Father

[@Grounded_InThe_Gospel1]

@@shepherd7744 Thanks for the thoughtful response. My question would then be, how long would the Holy Spirit allow a born again believer to completely change God's word, His character, Jesus' atoning work, reason He came and who He came for, God's love, etc?? These are crucial things to learn and share but if they're wrong, who's leading them to continue sharing and believing blatant lies? With the Holy Spirit being God and the author of scripture, why would He teach ANYTHING contrary...? He wouldn't, I believe He'd correct us, as He is the Spirit of Truth. How long would that take, I have no idea specifically, but I can't see Him allowing us to be completely led astray and STAY astray for the entirety of our walk, if we live well into our lives of being a Christian and not pass away soon after. I've absolutely heard Calvinists preach Calvinism to unbelievers, so who is prompting them to preach lies, and is there no conviction that they believe a lie? I mean this lovingly, I think of the Holy Spirit very often when dealing with these issues, which of course has me focused on Jesus and biblical truth. Also, on the surface, JWs and Mormons would say they believe in Christ....but when asked who Christ is, what He did, why He came, who He came for, them as well as Calvinists would say things contrary to scripture. Although Calvinists wouldn't go as far as the other 2, doesn't mean they believe in the Biblical Christ. The Jesus of Calvinism only came to save the (Aug-Cal) Elect...God wants all to come to repentance, Calvinism says no, He's patient for all the Elect to come to repentance once He regenerates them... Calvinism says Jesus only made the atonement for the elect, 1 John 2:2 says otherwise... Calvinism says God loves the elect and hates the reprobate John 3:16 and 2 Tim 3-4 says otherwise. So Calvinism ultimately has a different Gospel, a different Christ, a different God, and clearly changes the word of God for man made doctrines. These issues are NEVER secondary. Job 42:7, although we don't have every detail of what Job's friends said and did, God was clearly upset with what they were saying about God, and He corrected them. It mattered how we represent God, and if we speak about God and what He did/does, CLEARLY differently than He Himself has revealed to us, that's an issue. Many Calvinists are "saved" under Calvinist teachers, who preach the Jesus of Calvinism, and believe they are saved because they were elected to salvation before the foundation of the earth. I know there are many of them though that will say "you don't understand Calvinism, that's not what we believe" but that's nonsense, the truth hurts sometimes. There are MANY other issues with Calvinism, why would God allow His children to continue to believe and teach a false Gospel and doctrine, after coming to the knowledge of truth?

[@knxcholx]

@@Grounded_InThe_Gospel1 cause Jesus commanded us to "beware of false prophets"

[@Steve-og4ii]

Very well said! Calvinism is one of the worst Heresies to ever afflict Mankind!

[@bornagainbeliever1429]

You’re right Leighton, this is hard to watch😔 I will never be able to wrap my head around a theology that makes the One true living God, who is a Holy, Just and Loving God, out to be a tyrannical evil god, and the fact that there are people who actually BELIEVE this evil nonsense! Dear God help them💔🙏🏻

[@sampowellmusic]

Thank God for believers like you brother

[@bornagainbeliever1429]

@@sampowellmusic it’s “Sister”😅 Amen!

[@sampowellmusic]

@@bornagainbeliever1429 oh shoot well see there you go you had no pronouns listed! Haha

[@ryanwalters5803]

This is why I have come to loathe Calvinism!!

[@Gospelogian]

You realize, every fleshly creature by nature opposes God's sovereignty? it's not a brag to hate God being in control....

[@ryanwalters5803]

@@Gospelogian We don’t oppose God’s sovereignty; we just believe He gives man a choice. That’s clear in Scripture. Deuteronomy 30:19 and so on. Over and over again God pleads with man to turn from evil and obey him. That flies in the face of Calvinism.

[@timotimy254]

​@@ryanwalters5803 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. - Deuteronomy 30:6

[@CecilSpurlockJr.]

​@@Gospelogianthey said they loathe the blasphemous teachings of calvinism, not GOD being in control . Troll .

[@knxcholx]

@@CecilSpurlockJr. they're more offended their system is being offended than anything else

[@annemarieschulz5182]

You are the Martin Luther of our times Leighton nailing the errors of Calvinism on the door of You Tube. May God protect & bless you for your fervour for the truth of the Bible

[@tabazlover]

Eh, there were other reformers...bad representation, in my opinion. Luther was an ardent calvinist by default, for he adored Augustine, just as Calvin did. 🙂

[@askbrettmanning]

Martin Luther preached the doctrines of election as enumerated in scripture. So, your pointers lost. Your brother, Layton flowers isn't automatically right because you think he is.

[@tabazlover]

@@askbrettmanning That's the problem! You think so-called the doctrine of election defined by calvinsts is enumerated in the Scriptures. There is a doctrine of election in the Bible, but not the way you define it. "So, your point lost."

[@bridgetgolubinski]

11:42 It was through watching William Lane Craig's Defenders class vids that I realized Calvinism was wrong! I got to meet him last month and tell him how calvinism negatively affected me and he said he's had others tell him the same

[@emf49]

I was at a Calvinism church for only two years (after being a Christian for 40 years) and was part of a church plant that veered off into high Calvinism. I left but somehow the voice of it (Satan) still infiltrates my thinking at times. It’s an evil doctrine and my adult kids are being spoon fed this wicked nonsense. 😢

[@r.rodriguez4991]

I always wondered what athiests were smoking when they threw out these weird ideas about God punishing people for doing what he designed people to do. Now I understand that they were smoking Calvinism.

[@debbiewright1957]

Leighton, amen, amen, AMEN!!! I am so thankful for you, brother.

[@sageart3210]

Leighton, Allen Parr also did a response to a lady named Kristi Blake, and one of her reasons for leaving Christianity was calvinism, you should check out his response and he completely missed the point she made on why Calvinism is bad

[@goodshorts]

@@CBALLENwe are born again by believing in Jesus. John 1:12-13.

[@losnfjslefn8857]

​@@CBALLEN "We are born again unto belief..." Where is that stated?

[@losnfjslefn8857]

@@CBALLEN Can you please quote the specific verse that says "we are born again unto belief"? Because I read those verses in Ephesians and none of them say that. So maybe point out to me exactly which verse says that?

[@losnfjslefn8857]

@@CBALLEN On John 1:13 What it says: ✅John 1:13 KJVS Which were *born* , not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.✅ How you seem to be interpreting it: ❌John 1:13 Incorrect Version Which *received Him* , not of their own will, but of God's .❌ People with Calvinistic beliefs often conflate the work of God to regenerate us with the action of us to receive Christ by faith. You have it backwards.

[@Truthmatters6385]

"Take a breath" @26:00 minute mark. Agreed with you Leighton. RE: My Child's Salvation: without fail, as a Believer in Christ, in my darkest times or times of struggle with as a teen/young adult...THE ONE THING that gave me the most comfort/hope during those times was that I was 100% confident that she WILL be in Heaven with me; as she is a Believer in Christ. And today, I am she is married to a believer and is raising my grandchildren in a Christian home with Christian principles. NOTHING else compares to this fact. I praise God for this always.

[@josephhaurik2652]

Our angry Calvinist friends owe Warren McGrew an apology.

[@mickknight6963]

I do hope this dear lady knows there is a much larger segment of historical christianity and living christians today who overwelmingly disagree with his theology, by believing the same Bible. Lord help her, and the church today. This is tough and Im only 37 minutes in.

[@adriannelea1]

Holding back tears. I suppose I'm thankful he's saying the quiet parts out loud, answering honestly the evangelism questions I've had for Calvinists for years. The thought that one feels honored to be able to further the condemnation of an image-bearer is horrendous. Callous. Heartbreaking. I pray the Holy Spirit convicts him somehow. Please keep doing what you're doing, Dr. Flowers. Keep exposing the damage Calvinism does to the Kingdom.

[@Steve-og4ii]

You must understand that Calvinists view their hard- hearted attitude as being a sign of great spiritual maturity! " im the truly spiritual one ,because I can handle " the hard truths of God "!

[@Steve-og4ii]

You can know his HEART,by what comes out of his MOUTH!

[@austinh681]

Honestly.. putting Gods name with Calvinism is blasphemous. Calvinism is not true and appalling. Certainly saying these are Gods teachings is taking His name in vain.

[@DrGeorgeAntonios]

I can't watch this. I can't watch this Calvinist say those things...

[@emf49]

I have trouble listening to these people too! It’s very disturbing.

[@mickknight6963]

He's just began answering her first question and I'm already sick. Pitiful brother. We do not glory in the lostness and the eventual destination of the lost, and neither does the Lord. "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" Ezek. 33:11. He desires all of the 'wicked' to turn or repent and come to Him. And who are the 'wicked'? All who have sinned. ☝️

[@erixxu3260]

Dear Dr. Flowers, In political cycle I pray for Trump, in faith apologetics area I pray for you. Because what you are doing is very very important to keep correct Christian faith. Wish God bless all your services.🙏😊

[@robinpage2730]

Do you pray for Biden?

[@watchman1960]

I can categorical declare without any shadow of doubt that anyone propagating the Doctrine of Calvinism is a False Teacher preaching a False Gospel.

[@alightinthedarkages9494]

As a 40-year arrogant atheist, (saved three years ago) I can say with the deepest conviction that this guy has no skill whatsoever in bringing someone in her state to even one tiny step in the direction towards a saving faith, and as the good doctor said, has done tremendous harm...an anti-apologist in effect if not intent. Calvinism of his variety will have a 100% success rate...at making atheists even more convinced the Christian God is either a moral monster or doesn't exist.

[@ronaldhendricks3876]

I dont even know what to say. Respect to her for asking tough questions directly without being rude. And he was extremely consistent as a Calvinist. You would not be able to tell most Calvinist by their apologetics alone. This gentleman made it clear that he was staying with the tulip point for point. So he gets my respect for consistency. At the moment, those are the only commendable thing about their debate that I can come up with.

[@78sviolin]

Notice how the attitude of this guy toward his own children contrasts with the attitude of Paul toward his fellow Jews in Romans (I'm not even talking about Jesus)

[@shepherd7744]

The arrogance of these calvinists is UNBELIEVABLE

[@SheilaODrane]

If I was an atheist, Joe would convince me I was correct. We non calvinists accept God is sovereign. We disagree on how God did and does exercise His sovereignty. We find NO evidence in scripture that God assigned all individuals to heaven or hell before the human is born.

[@DanielBShaw]

I never thought I would hear an athiest make more sense than a "Christian".

[@Steve-og4ii]

Leighton, would love to see you do a video with Godless Granny,and try to rescue her from this terrible Misrepresentation of God!

[@celiasleigh2805]

As someone who likes learning about psychology, I find it interesting he didn't actually answer how it would make him feel but turned it logical. Doesn't really seem like he's in touch with his emotions.

[@Steve-og4ii]

He has none!

[@jobrown8146]

Thank you Leighton. This video answers my question (included at the end of this comment) that I asked on a recent video of yours. It's not so much to stop a Calvinist from their beliefs (but it is sad that they believe that way) it is the way they evangelise, which is what this current video shows. I nearly got caught up in Calvinism but couldn't line up the God of love that I knew from the Bible with what Calvinists were teaching. My question was: "If it is thought that a Calvinist is a Christian (I can see from comments online that some people don't think they are) then what is the reason to refute their Calvinistic interpretations of the Bible or to try to stop people from becoming Calvinists?"

[@Mybackupphone-q6n]

Joe is clearly Preaching a "Different" Gospel! Indeed, that's "his heart"! Consequently Joe is "accursed" "anathematized" and "eternally condemned"... PERIOD!

[@nelljo8374]

47:47 🤮🤮🤮 brother was asked a common sense question and answers her with a straight, no emotion face, chill and smiling and not being bothered by her kind advice and arrogantly responds. smh

[@nelljo8374]

she even responded "This has nothing to do with God, its about your relation with your kids..." Im almost done watching, calvinism is weird.

[@acsberean4092]

Calvinism is the gift that keeps on giving from the god of this world.

[@joenuevo]

At 45:35 "If you really understood it, then you would accept it." SHE CAN'T! Based on their own axioms it doesn't matter if she understands or not. She is either chosen to be a Christian or she's not. Based on his own worldview, their entire conversation was a waste of time (a pre-ordained waste of time).

[@knxcholx]

20:27 I felt my stomach turn after hearing that the first time. I'm in awe at how someone could say or believe this

[@Lee-xn8by]

I believe a Calvinist can be Christian, but a Christian teacher can't be Calvinist.

[@andresbenavides1768]

My goodness. That guy just shocked me. What I know is that only Satan rejoices when someone is sent to hell. Hearing this is so sad. His attitude is like he would be celebrating that people are sent to hell. Satan must have gave him lots of likes to this guy's video.

[@joenuevo]

At 48:10 When she said not to let his kids see this stream.... Paul said he would give his own salvation for the Jews.

[@JohnQPublic11]

lol! Ole Joe is a poster child for the insanity of Reformed Theology.

[@bobthrasher8226]

Godless Granny may have picked a Calvinist because she wants to confirm her own position by contrasting with the Calvinist position. In other words, she takes comfort in knowing she rejected a horrible version of Christianity.

[@austinh681]

If I believed that the god of Calvinism was true, NO WAY would I have children. It’s absolutely cultish behavior

[@joenuevo]

At 49:06 He says "And why do you think I would evangelize my children and tell them the good news of the Gospel hoping that God WOULD draw them to Himself and they WOULD be elect." (Emphasis mine) That's not how the Calvinist system of election works. They either are elect or they are not. You cannot use the conditional mood when discussing election from a Calvinistic vantage point. They either are elect and God WILL draw them or they are not and He won't. There's no point in hoping. It's already a done deal.

[@blackwater642]

Yeah I caught that too. “I share the gospel with my children hoping they will be elect” doesn’t make any sense.

[@lineshooter5w]

She made more sense in her questions versus his response.

[@lmorter7867]

Calvinism portrays God as having a double standard.

[@trebmaster]

Being intimidated into "surrendering your sensemaking" is the textbook definition of gaslighting, pretty much. That's what Calvinism does to all its adherents from the beginning, and then they fall prey to it. They actually buy it, and then they talk like this guy in the video.

[@SpielbergMichael]

Dear Dr. Flowers, A perfect follow up to this video would be to respond to an Apologia church outreach/evangelism video called: ‘Feisty Mormon girl defends Mormonism’ In this video Jeff Durbin does a good job talking to this young woman UNTIL the 39 minute mark where he’s already tried to refute the Mormon ‘burning in the bosom’ (the key fundamental belief and their last line of defense which is that: I believe it’s true because I received a divine feeling) and so at the 39 minute mark the young woman turns it around on Jeff and asks “how do you know your faith/the Bible is true?” - and I was stunned because I expected him to reply with evidence for the Bible’s trustworthiness such as prophecy (Psalm 22, Isaiah 53, Daniel 9) - but sadly Jeff Durbin fails and starts to talk about Calvinistic regeneration - and how he just received this being born again and just knew it was true. What struck me was how similar the Mormon saying they received a feeling of burning in their bosom, and the Calvinist saying they received a Calvinistic regeneration and just knew it was true. It was sadly a missed opportunity and I believe Jeff Durbin really messed up that answer and missed a huge opportunity BECAUSE of his Calvinist beliefs. This exact problem happens in many Apologia evangelism videos with Mormons. The other thing in this video with the young woman which didn’t help is how Jeff kept calling this young woman “sweety” which seemed very patronizing and condescending.

[@glennjohn3919]

Their evangelistic efforts are always condescending. I remember White in a video kept saying to these Mormons something like : "I'm giving you more light now, I'm warning you I'm giving you more light and with that comes greater condemnation..". I kept thinking why are you threatening them to change their mind White? It's not like they could change their mind if they're unelect anyway under your system? And then I realized they feel honored to give "greater condemnation" to unbelievers. It is interesting on Durbin's missed opportunity you mentioned. But remember God will elect or damn them anyways, it doesn't matter what answer he gives according to his own system.

[@SpielbergMichael]

@@glennjohn3919 Hello there friend, May God bless you and your loved ones abundantly. Yes, White does sadly often seem to be aggressive and bullish. I can't help but wonder if this came as a result/risk of spending one's life in debates. The Bible warns us that when we try to correct others to be fearful and cautious so that we're not overcome by sin and pride. It's like the risk of going into a fire to save others, we become at risk of the fire as well. I must add though that White has worked far harder for the Kingdom than I have; and (while I despise Calvinism) I do admire a lot of his work. May I gently offer a little difference with you. I don't think Durbin is "always" condescending. Just being honest. I have seen some amazing evangelism videos with him. I remember some videos of him conversing with some Jehovah's Witnesses which were so amazing. Very impressive. In that video I thought he modelled everything perfectly. It was beautiful to watch. Which was one of the reasons I was so stunned to see Calvinism ruin some of his other evangelism. But none of us are perfect. May God help us all.

[@glennjohn3919]

@@SpielbergMichael I've met Durbin personally several times, that being said I think I may have been a bit harsh. I don't think he is always, I was just being a bit hyperbolic. I do appreciate your kind words and joyful demeanor. I am curious because of your genuine disposition, when did you come to know the Lord?

[@SpielbergMichael]

@@glennjohn3919Hello again, I was brought up in a Christian home and now I’m 47, but it hasn’t been a smooth road. Lots and lots and lots of incredible grace from God. I’m not sure how long one has been saved is the biggest factor though. That’s a big subject. But I don’t think everyone matures and progresses at the same rate. Some become very mature very quickly, but regrettably I wasn’t one of those. I think it more depends on the teaching / discipling one gets early on and how quickly one understands our daily need of the Word, and how quickly we take the Word very seriously. Just my thoughts. Take care.

[@emilesturt3377]

Well, it's a very good sign of where you're at Leighton that you feel like crying when you watch a video statement like that... it just fills me with rage at people's idiocy at believing such a doctrine. I think you're closer to the heart of God than me

[@Steve-og4ii]

I understand, I get more angry than sad!!

[@erixxu3260]

I have a few Calvinist friends have the same problem: enjoy themselves elected, no mercy to others who they judged that they are non-elects.

[@jci9804]

You have to have some cluster b traits to tenaciously hold on to Calvinism’s claims in light of scriptures clear presentation of God’s character and provision for all. This lady really exposed this in their conversation

[@celiasleigh2805]

Its crazy. One time I was talking to my Calvinist dad about it and he compared it to if he gave a diamond wedding ring to every woman it wouldn't be special like giving it to his wife. I'm like 😳. If you saved every drowning person they are going to be equally thankful they're not going to be thinking about how they're not special because you saved all the others.

[@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg]

If God had chosen to reveal the names of the 2 people in Revelation 20:10, would that have been proof to you of unconditional damnation? ‭Revelation 20:10 NKJV‬ [10] The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[@cleverhippo8251]

He is ok with his children being condemned as long as he is saved😢 poor babies. This poor man is lost in a dark stronghold of the mind.

[@jobrown8146]

It's sad that this lady is an atheist but it was really helpful to hear her bring up the objections to Calvinism.

[@athb4hu]

I see what you mean about the trigger warning. I believe the atheist lady has come to wrong conclusions, but she came across far more rational, and compassionate, than the calvinist.

[@Lanaioahu]

Joe is a prime example of the kind of false teacher Paul warns Timothy about in 1 Timothy 1:3-7 Timothy Charged to Oppose False Teachers 3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work-which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

[@1Tim24]

Joe’s responses to her questions just sound like regurgitated Calvinist cliche’s. I never feel like I hear him say anything personally meaningful or deeply considered. Praying for them to both see the light of God’s truth, love, and provision.

[@Steve-og4ii]

Absolutely! Just pre' programmed knee jerk response, like a robot!

[@Jebron_G]

It's actually bad news even to the elect to know their loved ones will be thrown in the eternal lake of fire. Paul said id rather be accursed for my brethren. Jesus wept over Jerusalem. It can not be called good news just for being considerate and compassionate to the elect!! Sad news would be a lot more appropriate and actually loving!! Calvinism is not just another gospel, it's not one at all!!

[@michaeldesmond340]

If I could like this more than once I would. Not because the content you covered was uplifting in the slightest, but because it demonstrates the exact problem with Calvinism and all other determinist/compatibilist views. So sad that this ideology is infecting the church more and more. It's satanic in my opinion.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

I hope I am not an "arbitrary Esau baby"

[@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg]

If God had chosen to reveal the names of the 2 people in Revelation 20:10, would that have been proof to you of unconditional damnation? ‭Revelation 20:10 NKJV‬ [10] The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[@coreylapinas1000]

Why does that have to be applied to everyone? How much did Judas steal from Jesus and the apostles? I'm sure those entities will have done evil earning their condemnation themselves.

[@JamesS805]

Praise God that that’s not how He works. He is endlessly good.

[@RezG_777]

How is Calvinism not gnosticism?

[@emf49]

It is Gnosticism. Brought into the church by Augustine - a former Gnostic and follower of Manichaeism.

[@DelicueMusic]

What watch the purpose of the parable of the good Samaritan if we should be shocked that God should show mercy to even one?

[@Lanaioahu]

I always ask Calvinists "What is love? Who is love? Where does love come from? " And ALL the time they cannot give a Biblical answer because in their false doctrine love does not exist because the "god" they worship is a heartless sadistic cruel fear -inciting condemning "god" who is no different than the Islamic god Allah...in fact Calvinism is a "christianized" version of Islam. Deep down the Calvinist really has absolutely no assurance of where they are going when they die ... the best they can do is hope they are part of the elect. Then if they sin, they often become feaful they AREN'T part of the elect if they sin, and so they then strive for perfectionism to make sure they are part of the elect...which of couse is works based religiosity. They claim they arent works based but in reality they are. All of this has lead so many Calvinists to become atheists or leave the faith entirely. I have seen it happen over and over again with family and friends. Why? Because they cannot accept God is love. A God of both love and justice.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

48:49 When he says he's NOT OK with a person torturing his kids but it's OK if God does it demonstrates his near terminal condition of Cognitive Dissonance... Wouldn't determinism, and Calvinist's claim that God determines the means and ends... support anyone torturing his children simply being the extension of the Hand of God???🤷🏻‍♂🤷🏻‍♂

[@goodshorts]

Yes, some of them even affirm that the rape of children was decreed by God. It is sick.

[@scallywagswagger2318]

I hope that one day, you will see all Calvinist teachers for the false teachers that they have allowed themselves to become. They corrupt Christianity with every word, turning away God's creations from becoming His children. It is written "It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble." All too often, we think Jesus was referring only to little children, not realizing that he then immediately said that all must come to God as little children, eager for the faith and happy to receive His love.

[@Bamifun]

Interesting that Atheist Granny was clearly a Calvinist before her apostasy.

[@robinpage2730]

All Protestants (with the exception of some non-Trinitarian denominations) are Calvinists by definition, even if their denominations don't stress that aspect. Rejection of Calvinism IS rejection of Protestant Christianity and Roman Catholicism (due to the influence of Augustine who informed Calvin's theology) in their entirety.

[@whatdoyoubelieve194]

It’s so bizarre that the Calvinist thinks God gets glory out them making Him look like a moral monster. Definitely gotta hate the Calvinism and love the Calvinist, but man, we have to do better in reaching the lost with the gospel. Maybe Leighton or Braxton should get with Granny for a chance to clear things up. ❤

[@Steve-og4ii]

Great idea @ would love to see him undo the damage that this fool has done!

[@andrewtsousis3130]

Calvinisim. God is so Sovereign that “God is love” doesn’t matter anymore.

[@adriannelea1]

I’m not willing to worship a god who doesn’t love my kids more than me.

[@tayh.6235]

Right? As a parent, I have often found comfort in being able to end a prayer with "God, I know you love my kid more than I ever could so help me trust you." To think that God wouldn't love my kid is terrifying.

[@williammarinelli2363]

49 min mark: "And why do you think I would evangelize my children hoping that God would draw them to himself and they'd be elect?" Because you hope that your children were elect to salvation before the foundation of the world and entertain the dissonant idea that you can affect that decision made by calvigod in real time even though in an honest moment you admit that you believe that God's decision concerning everyone was made in eternity past.

[@lineshooter5w]

James White responded in a similar way in a debate with Michael Brown.

[@BloodBoughtMinistries]

He speaks like someone who doesn't really love his children. Anyone who believes that God could have chosen their children for hell and they can never ever believe the gospel would be devastated. This man must have a heart t that is as hard as a rock.

[@sheilaf8481]

I don’t think so. He is just trying to be consistent. Pray for him!

[@donnaoscolaighlange]

Richard Dawkins was mentioned please, everyone pray for him. He was in the news recently, calling himself a cultural Christian and I heard him in a “debate” with Francis Collins, and he said if he was anything he would be a deist. What a great apologist for the faith he would be.

[@ChandlerTC]

I find it odd that everyone who believes in Calvinism also believes that they are among the Elect, chosen by God in eternity. If Calvinists were honest, they would consider that if God chose some for salvation and others for damnation, then it is actually more likely that they are NOT among the Elect, given that Scripture seems to indicate that a Remnant will be saved for eternity. What evidence do they provide for their assurance? Their own faith and life. Neat how that works, huh?

[@SSNBN777]

Watch the last videos RC Sproul did. He was verbally doubting to the end, having no assurance of salvation. He looked more like a condemned man, even while holding the written word of truth in his hands. I'm near my end now in age. I thank God to the utmost that He never had me be exposed to the false Gospel of Calvin before He saved me.

[@dw6528]

dW: Bingo! 1) Per the doctrine - no human being is granted CERTAINTY of election because the elect are a divine secret which only Calvin's god knows. 2) Per the doctrine - the elect are "Invisible" to any human - and ONLY "Visible" to Calvin's god 3) Per the doctrine - a large percentage of believers are created specifically for eternal torment in a lake of fire for Calvin's god's good pleasure. They are created to be CHAFF believers who are given a FALSE SENSE of salvation by infallible decree. 4) Per the doctrine - all of the promises to the believer within scripture - constitute the ENUNCIATED will of Calvin's god - which in most cases is the exact opposite of the SECRET will of Calvin's god. So when the Calvinist reads "You are beloved" he has no way of knowing if the SECRET will of Calvin's god (for himself) is the exact opposite. All Calvinists claim to embrace what their doctrine stipulates - while AUTO-MAGICALLY treating what their doctrine stipulates *AS-IF* it is FALSE This is called a SELF-REFUTING belief system.

[@ChandlerTC]

John Calvin actually had a term to describe the false assurance of the saved / not saved. He called it Evanescent Grace. So, imagine a religious system that teaches that God’s sovereignty allows him to show his glory by damning people in eternity, intentionally not including most people in his atoning sacrifice, and intentionally not offering most people a true Gospel invitation. But somehow providing the “grace” to give them a false assurance in life.

[@dw6528]

@@ChandlerTC DW: John Calvin -quote The creatures...are so governed by the secret counsel of god, that *NOTHING HAPPENS* but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed. (Institutes 1. 16. 3) Thus you cannot have a FALSE PERCEPTION of salvation - unless that PERCEPTION is knowingly and willingly decreed. John Calvin -quote But the Lord....instills into their minds such *A SENSE* ..as can be felt without the Spirit of adoption. (Institutes 3.2.11) -quote He illumines *ONLY FOR A TIME* to partake of it; then he....strikes them with even greater blindness (Institutes 3.24.8) CONCLUSION: The phrase "Evanescent Grace" infers salvific Grace that is Evanescent. And in Calvinism - there is no such thing as "Salvific" Grace that is Evanescent. What is Evanescent in this case - is the PERCEPTION of Grace. The FALSE PERCEPTION of salvation is infallibly decreed to exist within a large percentage of Calvinists brains. No Calvinist is granted CERTAINTY of election - because he is not granted CERTAINTY of whether or not his PERCEPTIONS have been decreed to be FALSE PERCEPTIONS. The Calvinist will have CERTAINTY of what he was created for - when he wakes up in the lake of fire.

[@mrupholsteryman]

My wife has told me the exact same thing ....where we don't get to dictate what love looks like and who God saves...sounds like he totally understands Calvinism like she does...😢

[@sheilasmith7779]

mrupholsteryman: What I would say to your wife is that if we see God as our authority, teacher and guide, where else do we learn the principles we are to follow? From God? Or From Humans? I would say to your wife, we do not dictate, we imitate. We attempt to follow God's love, how God has demonstrated. I would ask her to find anywhere in scripture (after creation) where God's actions were NOT based on the actions of humans. NEVER were humans made to suffer death or damnation, except by their own choices to disobey God.

[@mrupholsteryman]

@sheilasmith7779 I have been battling these powers and principalities and she claims I'm being a clanging gong and not loving her...but berating her. She has her own beliefs and we have been married 20 years...and this has been the last 2 or 3 years after she came out of a Calvinistic closet...and I told her I attack the argument and not the person...but she claims I'm playing God and I don't get to as His ways are further than ours... But I don't wanna ignore the position as I DO believe it is a different "gospel"....but she has been a Christian for quite some time...and she is very firm in her foundation....no matter what I show her with Scripture...she claims plenty of theologians have come to the conclusion of Augustinian Calvinism...and they have a degree... I am not one that she trusted or respects...to which I ask was that "God decreed"? So on certain areas I come across as mocking...and I call it out as mocking a different "god" that truly cannot save...

[@bornagainbeliever1429]

@@mrupholsterymanI’m so sorry for you!!🙏🏻

[@celiasleigh2805]

We don't get to dictate. God can do whatever he wants. But that doesn't mean what he wants is what they think it is.

[@loripassos4514]

THIS IS SO WRONG! SO WRONG! Calvinism makes me crazy! So many people are so utterly deceived by this nonsense! IT MAKES THE BIBLE MAKE NO SENSE! But the Bible makes ABSOLUTE SENSE if you actually know how to read and understand it. I am FAR from a Biblical scholar but I've been studying and learning through good biblical teachers who teach the entire counsel of God's word and don't twist the scriptures with a Calvinist lens. Oh when you remove that lens and actually look at it properly with a Jewish lens understanding the idioms and hebraisms within it, Oh Wow does it just POP out at you with Truth!!! This guy is absolutely not a good option to speak to this lady. Wow he's so Indoctrinated! Yes it is freaking me out too. I get so frustrated! Prayers for this lady and for him to that they need and get the Truth of God's Word. And THIS is ABSOLUTELY NOT it!!!!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@georgerepetski]

I find it appalling how Calvinists talk about God choosing some to salvation and others to reprobation and never bring into their discussion at that moment apostle Paul’s words to Timothy in First Timothy 2:4 the God “desires all men [including women, of course] to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” Any passage that seemingly teaches that God chooses us to whatever (in actual fact, it is to service or spiritual growth/maturing), one must press Paul’s statement into that passage and interpret it with the idea that he desires that all persons come to know his truth . In other words, any passage with such a suggestion of choosing people must be tempered to include the fact that God wills/desires that all come to the knowledge of Gospel truth and respond to it. Of course, when such a possibility is presented by a non-Calvinist or atheist most Calvinists will immediately trump to there being two levels of God’s love and will - general love and desire for a person and specific (the latter being the truly chosen ones). This is total nonsense. If God desires that all come to his truth, then there can be no other desire except that one. If God is love and he loves all, then he loves every person equally for we all are the result of his creation. This only stands to common reason.

[@JesusIsLord777-lz7mg]

If God had chosen to reveal the names of the 2 people in Revelation 20:10, would that have been proof to you of unconditional damnation? ‭Revelation 20:10 NKJV‬ [10] The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[@andrewtsousis3130]

This shows 100% that his hope for his families salvation is not in Christ alone Ie the gospel, it is in “election”. Any doctrine that takes the focus off Christ alone for salvation, is a false teaching. This is not the gospel.

[@Steve-og4ii]

In Calvinism, Election is the ONLY thing that matters! You are either chosen for Heaven,or chosen for Hell,and that from Eternity past,and no one, can change from one to another!

[@KlaustheViking]

I have a saddening feeling that a Calvinist will never answer why God chose, in eternity’s past, for someone to never accept the gospel. They always vaguely answer with “because he’s sovereign.” As if God is arbitrary in His choice of who is saved and who isn’t. Calvinists and non-Calvinists wouldn’t disagree that one has more merit to be saved, so where does it leave the Calvinist to argue why God chose one to be saved and one to not be saved?

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

Absolutely refreshing!👍

[@silkee1922]

Faith and imperical evidence are functionally opposites in a spiritual sense. God could not create a religion of faith grounded in unquestionable evidence. The capacity to believe requires you can choose to not believe as well..... which means seeing God was never a possibility.

[@longstreet2740]

Most Calvinists are stuck not so much within their respective communities group think echo chambers, that If they do consider an alternate view, then maybe they would lose their faith and thus prove that they themselves may be outside of the elect

[@HoytRoberson]

Joe rejoices that HE is chosen - as though he knows that - and he avoids the question he was asked - he punts and hides behind 'God is God.'

[@blackwater642]

I wonder how Calvinists handle Gen 6:5-7? Thank you for what you’re doing Dr. Flowers!