Cam sensor tinkering - Joy or Misery?! UK Barn Find C4 Corvette ZR1 Project Episode 11

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Күн бұрын

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@iankelleher5072 6 ай бұрын

Lads don't be worrying about a delay in the videos. We understand you guys are working and are operating in the outdoors in UK. Keep the motivation up we're rooting for ye.

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Thanks :) Operating around day jobs too... we only get about 2-3 hours a week on an evening when we get the time. I (Chris) am going into my summer holidays soon so hopefully we will be able to push more progress along! Thankyou for the support :)

@brusselssprouts560 6 ай бұрын

@@Auto_Funk Might Ian Tyrrel from Tyrell's Classics help with the running problem?

@markbennett6658 6 ай бұрын

The most British Corvette video ever. No ‘shop’, no Bendpack lift, lots of grief, shitty weather & those ‘Gold’ biscuits and a nice cuppa as cold comfort😂😂

@Otto-AutoPilot 6 ай бұрын

This is what reality TV should be like.

@stephen300o6 6 ай бұрын

We'll just put this LS6 in....

@Mercmad 6 ай бұрын

England,where even GRP cars rust.

@daveglover6115 6 ай бұрын

The Empire was built on tea and biscuits -

@markbennett6658 6 ай бұрын

@@daveglover6115 they didn’t keep it going though😂

@matthewjones5511 6 ай бұрын

Love the enthusiasm - gives us all inspiration on our own projects - thanks

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Thanks Matthew - We'd be pretty screwed with it! Luckily we still have plenty! Come and join us tonight at 6PM UK time for our latest update... We will be in the live chat!

@Murtayafourfun Ай бұрын

I’m loving these videos! Great knowledge and resilience.

@Auto_Funk Ай бұрын

Cheers! This one has been a bit of a slog but we've made some pretty major progress!

@Google_Is_Evil 6 ай бұрын

Don't get too focused on the ECU telling you it is having sensor trouble. When cranking and with a badly running engine (low RPM stutter) it might erroneously set a code for a bad sensor signal because voltages (12V base voltage) are often low during cranking and getting a reliable base timing to correlate signals to is hard with the engine speed this low and stuttering. This is true amongst all cars of all ages that have ECUs. Modern ECUs have gotten better at this, but still mess up, yours is of an age that I wouldn't trust it until I can verify that it is actually correct by checking signals myself. Many cars riddle the ECU with "random" faults when it's running like a bag of spanners, effectively hiding the root cause of the problem and setting you off on a wrong course. Instead, focus on the main things your engine needs, compression, fuel/air and ignition. If you have unmeasured air coming in, especially at locations where only one or a few cylinders are concerned, your ECU will try to compensate for what it measures on the O2 probe and mess up the mixture to a point where the car won't start/run. Check crank sensor signal strength and validity. Check all sensors for extreme values. Compression sounds even/good, so I personally wouldn't focus on that initially, but you may want to check just in case. Iridiums should work fine, technology advances and 100 year old plug design isn't the best anymore, even in an engine that wasn't designed with these plugs. If you decide to visit the other guy to test your ECU, bring your iginition module as well, since you had some dead misfires when you moved it. It also had some black smoke, indicating super rich running on the cylinders it was actually firing on, pointing to the ECU messing up the mixture values. For now, focus on the basics, make sure you have no unmeasured air, both inlet and exhaust side, make sure your O2 sensor is giving the correct voltage and the heater is working, make sure your ECU isn't set on (wrong) extreme fuel corrections (reset measured parameters and clear DTCs), check your air measuring sensors (intake air temp, mass air flow/MAP), check your coolant temp sensor(s) going to the ECU. Check crank sensor signal strength and validity. Long shot: figure out if you can check if the cam timing to correlate with the cam sensor. As said, this is a long shots but you want to verify before condemning the ECU. I don't know the internals of this sensor/cam setup but I know cases where a timing gear/disc/flapper thingy had come lose off the cam and moved before it got stuck again, making the ECU think the cam was in a different position than it actually was. You may want to figure out if there are well recommended ECU rebuilding companies in the UK before shipping yours off. Just because the ECU is off an American car doesn't mean it can't be fixed by a UK company. In the end it's a box of electronic bits and most manufacturers use global companies to purchase ECUs off anyway, so the chances that a good UK company can test and fix it aren't that bad.

@clivewalpole 6 ай бұрын

Very good advice. 👍🏻

@Mercmad 6 ай бұрын

The ECU was most probably designed in the UK as all of the design and Prototyping was done by Lotus . The first prototype cars were supposed to be scrapped but were discovered in an English field a few years ago.

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

I agree, we do need to focus on that. I want to ensure that it has good spark plugs that are working correctly... the issue with them iridium ones is that it ran slightly better on the old AC Delco ones... making us wonder if it is really very sensitive to spark plugs. I agree that with it not firing properly that it might start throwing random codes. The ECU looked mint inside so hopefully imagine that its not in bad order.

@dancarter482 6 ай бұрын

@@Auto_Funk Can pretty much guarantee there's a fella in a shed who's a genius and makes ECU's for fun - it's just a case of bumping into the right bloke down the pub who knows someone who met a bloke at a show who had his mower fixed by his brother-in law's mate! Fortunately the intra-nets makes it easier to get the word out - a lot cheaper too what with the p£ice of a pint these days ... .... ..

@512Berlinetta 6 ай бұрын

1) You may need a scan tool to activate the ABS to get the air pockets out of the ABS unit (best way, in my opinion). A mechanic of mine at the race track kluged it by bleeding the brakes the way you did but using a pressure bleeder attached to the fluid reservoir and then driving and activating the ABS, rinse, and repeat a couple of times. 2) As for the cam sensor, I had that problem on a C6 Z06 a few times. It would happen when the battery was low, and I would crank the car. It would throw that error code and would not stop until I disconnected the battery and fully drained the electrical system, e.g., leaving the door open with the battery disconnected. Then, reconnecting a fully charged battery (I would attach my jumper battery pack to the battery too) and then starting the car again. For some reason, that used to clear up that code. Hopefully, this will work for you guys. Cheers!

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

That's really useful info - I did wonder about the ABS and whether we need to force it on but reading up no-one mentioned it. They are still slightly spongy so need looking at. Regarding the cam sensor we have some updates in tonights video which I reckon you'll find interesting, give it a watch! ... We will be in the live chat if you want to say hi!

@TheSaabClinicUK 6 ай бұрын

Use a Spark Detector on the leads to visually see you are getting a spark on each lead. Also it could be the ECU. I work on Saabs now but ive had lots of US cars from the 80's and the ECU's are quite typical GM. You have to remember they are 30+ yrs old and the Capacitors inside are well beyond their life. It could be some of them have failed and are leaking all over the PCB inside. I would open up the ECU and slide the PCB out. Give it a good visual over the entire board. Looking at the Electrolytic Caps, partially the base. If it looks wet or you can see green corrosion then you have a big problem. I do refurb Saab ECU's from the 80's and 90's so i can have a go for you should you find that to be the issue. Paul @ The SAAB Clinic UK.

@TheSaabClinicUK 6 ай бұрын

Should also mention i have and injector cleaning and flow bench so i can test all your injectors for you.

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

We did open the ECU, looked in really good condition (visually)... We did do a lead tester too (timing light) and it triggered it on every lead between the base and the sparkplug so we think the leads are working okay and it is managing to spark on every cylinder. Its perplexing. A lot of people are saying similar things... going back to basics, ensuring we have fuel, spark and timing. We think compression is okay as the car is cranking lovely... but I guess that also could be an issue!

@VanceAnderson-oi5xt 6 ай бұрын

Some things to check. 1. What is the fuel pressure? Make sure the new pump didn't go bad. (Rare but can happen) 2. I think the cam sensor code can be ignored for now. On that era gm pcm, if a prob is detected with the cam sensor, the pcm illuminates the cel and switches the injector map from sequential to simultaneous. (Not ideal, but the engine will run fairly normal in that condition) Verify good strong spark to the plugs. (I know it's dis but spark can be tested with an old inductive timing light. Clip the induction loop around each wire one at a time and verify consistent, steady firing while cranking) Considering the number of times the plenum was on and off, make sure there are no wires pinched between where the plenum and intake meet. Also make sure there's no big vacuum leak under there. Verify valve timing. (Those 35 year old plastic chain guides are very brittle and any one of them could have failed which would allow the valve timing to slip. Which, incidentally, could cause a false code 31 cam signal problem.

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Might not be a bad idea to whip the covers off tbh and really check the timing lines up.

@VanceAnderson-oi5xt 6 ай бұрын

@@Auto_Funk like I've told my techs for years. Concerning those easier things to check: "I know you're sure that you're sure. But.......🫣"

@davecurwen565 6 ай бұрын

I personally do not think that the ECU is the problem on this vehicle, just in case I am wrong, there is a great place in Heanor, Derbyshire, called ECU Testing, they once did an Electroplate repair on a Mercedes for me. Very quick and skilled people.

@h913nrd 6 ай бұрын

Have you tried checking the coolant temperature sensor? These can sometimes fail (or read wrong temperature) Causing over/under fuelling. Bear in mind there are two sensors, one for the gauge and one for the ECU. It’s the ECU one that needs checking.

@jezb9762 6 ай бұрын

Great watching you both try to get this running, especially as you are on the drive not some fully kitted out workshop. I have a C4 and have had very similar problems to chase but on the standard L98, keep going it will come right.

@Braeburn22 6 ай бұрын

All you have adjusted on the parking brake is the free play, make sure all the cables, all 3 are properly located, the brake should on move 3 - 5 clicks, you may find that the lever it's self is broken, the plastic cam is prone to breaking and the cable pulls through, also the front cable can collapse internally, but that normally reduces in lever travel, and the parking brake lever is self adjusting. The cables are cheap and readily available, so go stainless if you can, the lever is self is no longer available new and are getting very expensive. The mechanism is the same on all 89 - 96 C4s

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Probably worth replacing the cable you're right!

@eastcoastdcc 6 ай бұрын

Hey Guys! Share your pain...! Nothing worse that changing a component to try and fix a problem, then making it worse...!!! Keep up the good work, and videos when you can - Everything is alright in the end. If everything is not alright, it's not the end!!!

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Ah man it's frustrating eh!!! You will be pleased to know we learn ALOT in this weeks episode (6PM uk time TODAY!).... ! We will get there, especially with the support of all of you legends, it really helps :)

@jimhelgeson 6 ай бұрын

Geez, I was really hoping for a simple sparkplug fix for you guys. My, new to me a month ago, 1991 ZR1 was running on 7 cylinders. Took it to the shop expecting the worst. One bad plug plug was all it was!! I'm looking forward to some good news for you guys also.

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Hopeful that the plugs are not good tbh! We have an old set of AC delcos that have sat around for donkeys of years... and tbh the car ran "better" on those than the iridium ones... So some decent NGKs are on order to eliminate that as a simple problem... !

@lancenutter1067 6 ай бұрын

Nice! I’ve been fixing leaks on mine! The shift shaft in the auto trans seems to be a major issue on these. Soooo, I pulled the pan and replaced the seal, and tightened the pan bolts and now, only the power steering cylinder is dripping. Seals are on the way tho!

@jeremyrowe743 6 ай бұрын

I would check ecu's temperature sensor is in spec, it can cause an extremely rich issue if it's not working. It could also be vacuum leaks, causing the same issue. My Mustang ( same vintage obd1)had the same issue, and I had to replace all the lines. Get a cheap Smoke tester, It fixed the rich, poor running, hunting idle....good luck.

@andygardner3610 6 ай бұрын

Great content guys. I have watched the whole series. The thing I would say is do a compression test...as a matter of course on an engine that has been stood. Some of the valves have been in the open position for many years and may have corrosion or sticking. I'm not saying this is your problem but will give a good indication of condition.

@GaryPBIE 6 ай бұрын

I think the crank sensor code is a red herring, the poor idle can cause it to throw that code. I would check resistance on the ignition leads and get new plugs. Also - and I don't want to say it, check cam timing, could be a failing tensioner or stretched chain. (I don't know anything about Corvettes these are just things to check.)

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

You definitely could be on to something - We have the new plugs now so will get those fitted in the next installment and see what difference it makes... Other unknown is still the 02 sensors which we haven't replaced yet because the car ideally needs to go on a ramp to do so! Thanks for the tips!

@davedaniels8211 6 ай бұрын

Stick with it guys . Your accumulation of knowledge , experience and contacts will hold you in good stead for the future . Guys like Vincent are everywhere , we just have to find them . Agreed - crappy weather for July 👍

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Thanks Dave! Hopefully we will get there and see this beast live again. Come and join us tonight at 6PM UK time for our latest update... We will be in the live chat if you want to say hi... !

@thenaturecreater8906 6 ай бұрын

Hello again, boys. Try to open the ecm and take a look inside , maybe corrosion, muse nest. I had a lot of luck cleaning moduls with a soft brush and an electric cleaner I just change the brakes on my zr-1 92. And flush all of that nasty fluid out. Handbrake and brakes are awsome. Just cracked the nippels and let it gravity bleed it self. And did the last bleed the same way you.guys did it. Perfect

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the tips! Re the ECM - You'll want to check out our latest video ! Come and join us tonight at 6PM UK time when it drops... We will be in the live chat if you want to say hi!

@mlc7boosted 6 ай бұрын

This may not be useful but I just "gravity bleed" the brakes on my '04 C5 Vette. Meaning do not pump the brake pedal and hold while someone else loosens the bleeder valve. If the brakes are still a little soft or weak, try simply opening the bleeder valve on the caliper and watch for fluid to begin to flow out the tube connected to the bleeder valve. I have always heard to start at the caliper farthest from the master cylinder. You would need to watch the fluid reservoir and fill as necessary during the bleeding process. It worked fine on my '04 C5 and was nice to flush out the old fluid. I did see some bubbles come out through the hose connected to the bleeder valve on the caliper, but it stopped and then soon it was clean brake fluid flowing slowly through the tube into the waste container. I let gravity do the majority of the work and bled the brakes without pumping the brake pedal. It's more of a static bleeding process with less variables at work. X is constant, Y is variable. Don't pump, just open and let flow; close the bleeder valve and move to the next caliper closest to the master cylinder.

@johncollins9989 6 ай бұрын

Bros, love your channel. Just 2 dudes in the driveway trying to fix shxt. Lol hey if there's 1 UK English word, I wish we could import across the pond is RUBISH 🤣🤣🤣 it's not often used here LOL. idk why, but that makes me laugh every time.. I know that's random, but what the hell 😂 good luck guys

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Thanks John!! You know what's RUBBISH? Our impossible to find bugs on this darned car!! :) (we don't say darned much in the UK!) Come and join us tonight at 6PM UK time for our latest update... We will be in the live chat if you want to say hi!

@johncollins9989 6 ай бұрын

@Auto_Funk we say darned when we re trying to censor ourselves 🤣🤣🤣🤣.. heey did you guys ever hook up your ECU or PCM to your fellow Britts corvette to see if that was the problem??

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

@@johncollins9989 Ha! Always a challenge... Especially trying not to curse on YT at this cockamimi vette when it invariably never works properly... We did and it's coming up right here in a couple of hours, all will be revealed :)

@johncollins9989 6 ай бұрын

@Auto_Funk awesome fellas... can't wait.. let me just tell you, if you ever get it running right you're gonna have one hell of a car. Just wanted to encourage you to keep going.. there's so much help out there on line. Too bad you're not in the states where you could have a GM tech look at it.. but anyways love your content stay strong fellas

@nicelittlebus 6 ай бұрын

+1 for checking your fuel pressure in the engine bay. Checking the basics first. Haven’t seen you test injectors yet. Send out for cleaning a flow testing. Also could use noid lights to test you have a signal at each injector plug. Keep up the good work.

@bukwok 6 ай бұрын

im not a watch guy, but im really really like your watch, thats why i bought one for myself, the yellow dial just looks so cool like it a lot, great taste 😄

@jamesgraham224 6 ай бұрын

Take your time and do it right. Love it so far..

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Thanks James! Come and join us tonight at 6PM UK time for our latest update... We will be in the live chat!

@dwighteickmeier4961 6 ай бұрын

The exhaust system is NOT a dual system. The exhaust combines in the resonator.

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Interesting - We assumed it was separate but haven't really looked.

@Questioneverythingg730 6 ай бұрын

When cleaning plugs use a little hand held blow torch to heat them up hot to clean them. You don’t need to scrub them and possible depositing foreign material. You’re just simulating a hot engine doing it this way and it’s safe

@jeffshaw4553 6 ай бұрын

Do love a gold bar 🤣🤣well done guys hope you sort the running and idle issue guys be nice to hear it running right 👍🏽👍🏽

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Cheers Jeff! Can't beat a Gold bar eh!! :) :) Come and join us tonight at 6PM UK time for our latest update... We will be in the live chat if you want to say hi!

@jeffshaw4553 6 ай бұрын

@@Auto_Funk thanks mate I will if I ever get the car and motor home polished on time back to the office tommorow 😂😂😭😭

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

@@jeffshaw4553 ha!! You’d better get back to work then! 😬😫😁

@jeffshaw4553 6 ай бұрын

@@Auto_Funk you know mate 🤣feel more tired having time off than actually working 🤣🤣

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

@jeffshaw4553 ha !! I know the feeling….!

@dougk7323 6 ай бұрын

Hey guys love the content! I can't remember if you changed the plug wires ?? I think I remember you did but if not that could potentially be the problem. The symptoms certainly are consistent with potential bad plug wires especially acting up when it's wet out.

@jacklifeonwheels 6 ай бұрын

Great video guys

@Fearnstein 6 ай бұрын

This must be a frustrating project. Don’t give up, you’ll get there eventually

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

We will eventually :)! We are getting close! Thankyou for the support!

@damianpacker4468 6 ай бұрын

Check the signal ground on the wire from the sensor to the ecu. The wire has an integral ground that is used as a shield this can break down over time.

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Thanks Damian! Tried it off camera... All the grounds are good :( Come and join us tonight at 6PM UK time for our latest and rather positive update... We will be in the live chat if you want to say hi!

@graemecraddock8846 6 ай бұрын

you are doing a great job

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

Thanks Graeme! Appreciate the kind words :)

@simongreavett6410 6 ай бұрын

Love the vid's lads, you are both doing a great job of the car. Probably been mentioned already.....but on the last video when you moved it under it's own power, the exhaust was very sooty and smoking black smoke, and i'm guessing the plugs are black and sooted too. Check your fuel pressure and flow, cheap gauges only show pressure. Check plenum chamber again, torn gaskets, vacuum hoses, air hoses etc. The fact that it takes so long to fire up is an indication of where the problem lies. Were your injectors new or serviced units?

@hankmccarthy5057 6 ай бұрын

Only use OEM plugs. Others can cause ignition issues. Have you guys done a full compression and leak down test? Would be a good first place to start. Should also check the cam and crank sensor while it’s in the car. Should be a square waveform. If you don’t have a perfect square waveform that can cause issues. Could have a leading or trailing edge of the square wave dropping off

@wojtekk7920 6 ай бұрын

Also, avoid Denso plugs. Use NGK, eventually Beru, Bosch or Champion.

@Omegaman1969 6 ай бұрын

Are both fuel pumps running ? I would stick a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail and see what’s going on when cranking.

@dougseivwright 6 ай бұрын

Gold bars ❤ classic biscuit!

@bluetitan20 6 ай бұрын

Sometimes you think it would be easier if something obvious and mechanical failed, rather than having to try and find an electrical or ECU fault. But I would have thought it would be possible, if its something like a fault with the ECU, to get it fixed somewhere in the UK, rather than sending it all the way over to America. You have some of the best car related workshops and businesses in the world, located in the UK. Hopefully you can get to the bottom of the issue and get closer to seeing it running at last.

@assistantto007 6 ай бұрын

Have you considered opening the ecu to make a visual inspection? I've repaired water ingress damage on ecu's on numerous occasions...

@Auto_Funk 6 ай бұрын

We have - And if you watch this weeks vid (landing today at 6pm UK time!!) you might just see inside our ECU!