Camera Operating for Steven Spielberg (with Mitch Dubin SOC ACO) GCS238

[@alexalexis7899]

As much as I’ve seen, listened to, and read about Spielberg over the years, it came as a complete shock to hear that he used to be a screamer and very hard on people he doesn’t know. For a few minutes I was like “This can’t possibly be true”... but the source is as knowledgeable as they come. Mind blowing information as I’ve never pictured him being like that - impatient, determined and hands on, yes, but a screamer and verging on behavior we associate with Cameron, Bay and Fincher? Never in a million years. Would love to keep listening to Mitch. Please bring him back and dig deeper on what he is looking for when looking through the eyepiece, maybe even try to have a few shots from his resumé for him to break down and tell us how they arrived at the final result.

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thank you so much for listening Alex. I totally agree. It was a really interesting conversation and we absolutely will have him back! -Ben

[@captainkavern]

I thought exactely tge same. It was a side of Spielberg I didn't know. Very interesting !

[@Bgoods]

Agree, this is the first I’m hearing about this aspect of his work ethic. Kind of disheartening but also, understandable.

[@canweshoot]

Yeah, his public persona is apparently carefully protected. I never worked with him, but I remember being rather surprised when I first heard this from colleagues who had worked with him. I heard Hook was a particularly miserable show to work on due to him. But "difficult" aka "challenging" directors are not in short supply out there. Learning how to cope with them is part of the job. Like Mitch described, if you can master dealing with them and they come to trust and rely on you, your stock goes up and your phone rings. The most miserably tough can sometimes forge you. There is often something valuable to learn from them that you will take with you for the rest of your career. Some...not so much.

[@roquefortfiles]

No way. Really?!! I know some people who worked for Cameron on Titanic as 2nd AC and their assessment of him on set was... "Ass hole"

[@canweshoot]

This is by far the most comprehensive description of the many facets of operating I've seen. Of course, who should be surprised; it's Mitch Dubin. Thank you, Mitch, for sharing so much and so articulately. I have to hand it to you, though, Ben. You asked a ton of excellent questions. I think that some will find what Mitch said about developing a relationship with actors surprising. I was a bit surprised to discover this in my career, as well. As I was coming up, the great majority of operators (here in the States) specifically avoided and advised against any relationship with actors. Looking back, I'm not sure if they were intimidated or what. I found this happened quite organically, as Mitch describes it, as an A-operator. What I noticed is that actors really sense the operator's vibes. If the operator is not very engaged/invested in the project, they feel that. If they experience the opposite...that the operator is deeply engaged and confident, they really notice that...and like it a lot. As Mitch described, the relationship is careful on set, but friendships away from work certainly can develop and are rewarding. Mitch's anecdote about the actor's gaze settling on you, the operator, at "cut" is very true. It happens rather coincidentally rather than intentionally as the actor eases out of character, especially if it has been a closeup of a particularly emotional scene. You can tell when a great moment has been captured, and you cannot help but enjoy it and enjoy being part of it. The actor can see this in your face. Of course, nothing said. Often a subtle twinkle in their eye is returned. Love doing those types of scenes. It's a small world, and "reunions" on later shows are especially happy when crew and actors are reunited for a new show. One of the most rewarding events for me happened early in my A-camera days when I took a moment to say goodbye to a significant cast member who wrapped the show early. He graciously surprised me by saying "I trust you." Took me totally by surprise, but I never forgot it. Sure enough, four months later and 8000 miles away, the same actor showed up on the movie I was doing. Small world, indeed. I would be terrified to have to do a musical! Hats off to you, Mitch, for hanging in there. Cheers.

[@GoCreativeShow]

Joe! Thank you so much for the comments here (and the compliments 👍. I agree with you 100% on the relationship between camera and actor. I don’t shoot much myself, but i do direct a lot and am usually much further away from talent than camera is. Even that little bit of space makes a difference when you want to give them an immediate reassuring look. The vibes from A-Cam are so so so important and not nearly discussed enough. I’m glad you enjoyed the conversation. I’d love to see your IMDB. Send us a link! BEN

[@charlesbeaudelair8331]

Very insightful conversation, thank you!

[@GoCreativeShow]

Charles, you made my day! thanks for the comment and for watching the show BEN

[@mattceccotti]

Just found out about your podcast and subscribed! Hope there’s more of this sort of interviews 🤟🏼

[@GoCreativeShow]

Welcome! We have a lot of episodes, so there is a lot to enjoy. Thank you for the support.

[@totallycheckthisout]

Thanks for this video, awesome!

[@GoCreativeShow]

My pleasure!

[@navarafilmsproduction4942]

Mitch is such an amazing Person with an incredible experience.

[@GoCreativeShow]

He is excellent. Thanks for listening. -Ben

[@KenoSNeal]

Thank you so much for this

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thank you for listening! We really appreciate it BEN

[@keith-kalfas]

This is amazing 👏

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thanks so much

[@NoName-jq7tj]

I’m a photojournalist & a sports photographer & have no real interest in working in the movie business, but I’ve always found cinema photography so fascinating in improving my own work. I see a film in stills.

[@GoCreativeShow]

I love that! Photojournalism and sports photography is so impressive to me. you get ONE chance to capture something and it has to be perfect. that is so intimidating to me and I admire it. BEN

[@NoName-jq7tj]

@@GoCreativeShow It should be perfect but it is all a process. The way I shot in the 2,000’s is very different to the way I shoot today. In the film business & studio work it is the takes that allow you to shoot & reshoot until you feel you have the footage or images in the can. In sports & news or photojournalism you are underpinned by the moment. It’s not intimidating unless you allow it to be. It gets less intimidating when you have enough experience in shooting the same subject matter. Sports for example is fairly predictable in movements of athletes. That’s why if you analyse 2 summer Olympics the 100mm race look very similar in style, composition to framing. I find cinematography fascinating as it’s an area that a lot of photographers don’t talk about even though a motion picture in the analogue sense is fundamentally made up of still images sped at a fast pace. As a photographer I would love to work on a feature film in the photography area as it could enhance my own photography journey. What makes great cinema? What is cinematic. These are the questions I ask myself in my photography.

[@sriharsha5036]

Great discussion Ben. Keep them coming and thanks!

[@GoCreativeShow]

You got it!

[@ShowCat1]

Great insights!

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thanks for listening!

[@Lee-xn8by]

Great interview!

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thanks Lee I’m glad you enjoyed it BEN

[@RomanStranai]

Thank you for making this :) So inspiring...

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thanks so much for listening! -Ben

[@ToyFiend]

Spielberg has been critically loved since Jaws 1975.

[@GoCreativeShow]

He’s the best

[@Frank_San_Nicolas]

Fascinating, though I wasn’t sure what he meant during the story about the bump in the track. Did he say “the track had settled” ? Is there a lubricant added to tracks?

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thanks for the question Frank that interview was so long ago I don’t remember much of it. I have to go back and listen. -Ben

[@canweshoot]

Mitch is referring to the wooden wedges that are used under the track ties to level the track. With repeated passes of the heavy, loaded dolly on wet ground, a spot that was particularly wet/soft began to sink a little ("settle"). When they passed over that spot, Mitch felt the bump. Since we "feel" the bump, it can kind of falsely influence our evaluation of its severity. This was a great example of it feeling worse that it looked. Great story to tell, though, about knowing when it's "good" or "we need to go again."

[@aliensoup2420]

@@canweshoot Yes, there are so many elements of the movement that can conceal a bump in the track - a wide angle lens may not show a bump, whereas a telephoto will of course magnify any movement. Movement of the actors in the frame, or any other kinetic action, can conceal a bump. It has to be evaluated in context to the shot - not simply, a bump is a bump and all bumps are bad.

[@filmfunfilm]

Great questions Ben! from Bryan Michael Stoller author of FILMMAKING FOR DUMMIES

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thank you so much for listening! Appreciate it BEN

[@royjf10]

That was really annoying where the interviewer cut him off with that snarky comment at 23:33. Let the man speak.

[@GoCreativeShow]

Well I have to disagree with that.. but I am the host so I guess I'm biased. lol. Thanks for listening though. I appreciate the comments both good or bad.

[@royjf10]

@@GoCreativeShowI'll admit, what I said was a little harsh. I was just super interested in what he was saying at that moment. 😂. As a sports camera operator, I related to that specific point he was making.

[@GoCreativeShow]

No worries. I get it and thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed the interview other than that moment. 😊

[@royjf10]

@@GoCreativeShow Definitely. It was super awesome to listen to. I look forward to hearing more of what you have on your channel. And whatever new stuff you have coming down the pipeline.

[@gpapa31]

That heavy backlight and lenses flare that Kaminsky so much loves and Mitch is fighting against is something I am not a fan of on Spielberg films. Kaminsky is a legend no doubt but somehow I prefer Spielberg’s cinematography before the Kaminsky period (minus Schindler’s List, Munich and SPR which are outstanding). Great interview btw.

[@GoCreativeShow]

Thanks so much for checking out the interview

[@rogerlid2118]

It's really hard to imagine that Spielberg behaved in that unacceptable manner. I thought he was "mr. nice guy" 🙈

[@GoCreativeShow]

I think it's safe to assume people at that level can get a little aggressive at times. I can't say I'm surprised, but it's not the best thing. Thanks for listening. BEN

[@rogerlid2118]

@@GoCreativeShow Little aggressive?? To be a screamer is totally unacceptable.

[@GoCreativeShow]

@@rogerlid2118 Yeah. I mean, you are right. It just unfortunately happens.

[@rogerlid2118]

@@GoCreativeShow I know... People who act this way are immature crybabies. It's just a crazy world we live in.

[@jeta1383]

Ben you are so misguided and frankly naive about the inner mechanics of a working (harmoniously) camera department. 1. Your eyeline is off, while interviewing Mitch. Get smart and match your eyeline with your subject onscreen. Period. 2. Mitch has earned the respect of his peers and industry professionals. Period. 3. A camera operator falls under the leadership of the DP. Period. 4. A DP is the HoD of the camera department. Period. 5. The DP is responsible for employing their department's crew (including their operator). Period. 6. If the Director is bypassing their DP and going direct to the operator (or visa-versa) then the DP's role is/has been eroded. Period. IMHO, as a DP, would I work with SS? Hands down, no way! Despite any finical retainer I may (or may not) be held on (by the director) for exclusivity shooting. Why? for these above mentioned erroneous working protocols onset...truly. Peace

[@GoCreativeShow]

Hey thanks for the feedback, but I'm not sure why you are so upset. Mitch was a great guest, we had a fun conversation and he enjoyed his time on the show. This interview is 2 years old, we weren't using a teleprompter and I wanted to make sure I was looking at Mitch during the show so he and I would be making eye contact. I appreciate the feedback and thanks for watching the show. If the eye-line is really bothering you watch some of the newer interviews.

[@chupap1]

@jeta1383 While the above is apparently your working preference, it is no way definitive. In many instances the 1st AC is technically considered the camera department head. Operators working with directors while the DP focuses on lighting aka the English system is a long-established style, although more rare these days. These are not "erroneous working protocols", even if you don't agree with them personally.

[@jeta1383]

Respectfully, the 1st AC may 'manage' day to day running of the Dept. Unconditionally it is and only is the DP who is HoD. Period.

[@jeta1383]

And for the record Mitch is a legend. I take nothing away from him or his wealth of experience and skill set. 🙌🏼

[@chupap1]

@@jeta1383 I don't know where you are located, I'm in the US (the term "HoD" is possibly a giveaway that you are not because that is not a commonly used designation here). In the US, in Local 600, it is generally accepted that the 1st AC is the department head, while the DP is of course still above them. I say this not to be US-centric, but since you are using terms like "unconditionally" and "period" to refer to this scenario, I'm just saying, those definitives are not applicable here.