Can 30-30 be loaded to match 308 Win?

[@staceyroberts9177]

I shot my first deer with a .32 WIN Special; I went on to hunt with a 30-30, 308, 30-06, 270, 8 mm, and 35 Rem. I am now back to hunting with a Marlin 336Y in 30-30 Win because the ammo is easier to get than the 32 Special. I stopped listening to the noise from all the experts about how you need the more powerful cartridges and went back to what I am comfortable with and enjoy carrying and shooting. As long as you hunt to the cartridge’s capabilities it won’t let you down and I can argue that it makes me a better hunter by hunting with my good old 30-30.

[@philliprunge4373]

I hunted with a Savage bolt action 30-30 my dad's brother loaned it to me . I fell in love with that gun.

[@glennsammon4465]

got one also a M340 20 inch barrel. light and handy. need another 3 shot magazine.

[@jacobleb420]

"My dad's brother", you mean your uncle...

[@drovercamping4wd]

Exactly why I own a Browning BLR in .308, 20” barrel, side ejection, and I also have a 10 round magazine for it 👍

[@royjohnson465]

Yes, the Browning BLR (especially the stainless steel, takedown model) and Henry Long Ranger. All lever-actions with removable box magazines. >>I have a Winchester model 88 in .308.

[@drovercamping4wd]

@@royjohnson465 yeah that must suck, we can hunt from a moving vehicle of any kind here in Australia, there’s a lot of wide open spaces out here, so it’s the best way to get around a large property most of the time, the old 30-30 used to be very popular for pig hunters, not so much these days though, I find the BLR very handy

[@kevincolonel3070]

I hunted moose in Newfoundland and found it a PITA to have to unload the hinged floorplate on my 300wby mag so often. Next time I'm taking my Rem 7600 in 30-06.

[@royjohnson465]

@@kevincolonel3070 (1)So the law is the same in Newfoundland also.! I live in another Canadian province and the same here. No cartridges allowed in 'any' type of magazine while riding in an ATV or vehicle, yes a PITA. (2)My dad had an older German made Weatherby, 300 Wby. Mag., you maybe able to find a "conversion kit " for it to change it from a hinged floor plate "to a" detachable magazine. (3)I bought a new Remington 7600 Carbine 30-06 (never shot it yet), I am regretting getting the 18.5" barrel because I should have got the 22" barrel instead. (4)The detachable magazines on the 7600 are a little tricky to install, they can jam (stick) if not put in properly, I find they have to be put in at a slight angle to go in smoothly. (5)I do not have a scope for it yet, I am thinking of going with a Bushnell AR Optics 1-8×24 scope for it. (6)I do not have a shoulder sling put on my 7600 yet. I have to decide to put the sling attached to either the barrel "or" to the front of the pump-action rail.? (7)I want to get Cerakote (a rust proofing coating) put on my 7600. I see on the internet in Pennsylvania at Grice gunshop they sold 7600's with Cerakote already put on. (8)I think that maybe 7600's are "no longer being made" at the factory in Ilion, New York.? (9)I heard that the Remington 870, '20 guage', stocks fit on to the 7600, if a person wants a left side folding stock or a replacement.

[@akula682]

Where did you find a 10rnd mag for it?

[@michellewilt4479]

Loved it. For me, 30-30 is absolutely perfect for my needs. Where I hunt, I'm lucky to be able to see more than 100 yards. In the few places where we can see 300+ yards, I can either bring a 30-06 or I know where to adjust the aim on my 30-30 to get a clean kill.

[@drewgrandi5413]

Good for you always cool to see a girl who hunts

[@robertodebeers2551]

The 30-30 still gets it done, for sure!! I killed my first elk with a .25-35 Winchester when I was a senior in high school.

[@jayclark2077]

Ron: the 160 grain “flex tip” Leverevolution bullet used for the 30-30 also has a boat tail which also helps at longer ranges, eh? JWC

[@dllion3196]

I absolutely agree. If you know your 30-30 you will get a clean shot at 300 yds. It will go right clean through the chest of a deer with a 150gr bullet. I would not stand in front of it.

[@-Zevin-]

Just curious, have you tried the flex tip rounds for longer range in the 30-30? The ballistics seem very impressive, similar to 7.62x39 out to 300 yards.

[@robertbeda959]

Love the. 30-30. Grew up in the Midwest, moved to CO in 1969. Used to hunt antelope every year back in the 70s and 80s. Brought two rifles to camp. 30-06 Mauser or .243 Ruger 77 and Winchester 94, .30-30. Winchester was my opening day rifle, others were for Sunday. Filled many tags with the .30-30. Really got good at stalking skills. Always dropped with one shot. Great times. Antelope were plentiful back then. Too easy with a scoped rifle, so started using the '94.

[@rgalletta58]

Thanks Ron for exploring the 30-30 caliber's potential. I absolutely love my model 94 in the woods. Very fast point and shoot.

[@Marvinwalker-ud3yo]

If the 30-30 can't get it done, then get a 30-06. Don't mess around with anything in between.

[@SniffTest101]

A .270 is a very capable weapon as well.

[@francisbarbeau1862]

Ron, the Hornady Flex Tip(Lever revolution rounds) are ballisticly sound. I use them and they do fly better and Farther!

[@garryhynds4870]

Thanks Ron

[@TheBamayaker]

Great video Ron! Great advice to not Frankenstein a 30-30. We only have one face. No need to blow it off. I have both calibers. Just use as intended.

[@pensnut08]

I am more than happy with my 30-30 shooting the Hornady Lever Ammo. I still remember when I sighted in with the Hornady. I had been using Winchester 150s (I will say those 150s dropped deer like rocks! DRT or 30 yards tops) and the grouped nicely. I put the Hornadys in and they were off a touch right but 3" higher at 100 yards. The difference in the BC made that much of a difference.

[@vincentklonowski5346]

I really appreciate the common sense, knowledge, and confidence that some of the older hunters are putting on KZbin. There's just something different about someone who knows from experience vs someone that tries to prove how good/tough/smart they are from one experience.

[@Lure-Benson]

In BS Rons video's there is zero common sense when it is impossible to load a 30-30 with more than 32 grains of powder and max powder charges for the 308 is 48 grains that flattens primers

[@Lure-Benson]

@Joel The only reason I have put together a 308 AR 10 upper is I believe civil war is coming so I want a common military round. I have already two AR 15 uppers in 223 one is 18 inch barrel the other is 20 inch barrel. I have an AR 15 upper 16 inch barrel in 7.62x39 so I feel I am covered for common ammo and have been hording ammo for the outbreak of war to end communism. For 30 cal rifles I use for hunting 2 of them are in 300 Wby mag. For big game in Alaska I have a CZ 550 in 9.3x62 Mauser then an AR 10 upper in 375 WSM that is just light more in power then the 375 H&H mag. Then I have a bunch of other guns

[@nolanbrown84]

When I was in highschool I picked up a well used Remington 788 chambered in 30-30 from the gun shop that I helped at on the weekends and to this day it's still about the most accurate rifle on paper I've ever purchased and I've dumped some decent money into some other rifles. I can't attest to long distance or to it's ability to keep up with a .308 but as far as paper punching I couldn't beat it with any other rifle I owned at the time or for several years after that. I'll never forget... The guy that traded it off traded it for a beautiful Winchester model 54 in 30-06 that I'd been eyeing. Just said he wanted more oomph. I figured it was only right that since he bought the 54 that I'd buy the 788 as consolation. I was never disappointed with that deal.

[@jamessotherden5909]

Back when I was a young man, I thought the savage 99 was just plain ugly. Now when i see a retro add for one, I like how it looks. I should have bought on in the 70'S.

[@chrisblake1918]

Love mine.

[@gunner4373]

We did this when I was a very young kid. We had a Savage 340 bolt gun in 30-30. We loaded 165gr Hornady Interlock bullets over a heavy charge of Win 748. We could get 2450fps out of it. I killed my first deer with this load 35yrs ago doing the double load in a Win 94. The issue we had with the Win 94 was that the longer bullet wouldn't eject as a loaded cartridge. You had to fire it to remove it from the chamber lol

[@jacobshelburne958]

i have a 340 c and love it its so much fun

[@Wildwestwrangler]

the 308 sends that 165 at about 2700 fps

[@Wildwestwrangler]

with a 150gr you're over 2800fps

[@Lure-Benson]

You could have taken a pointed tool to lift the 94 extractor up releasing the cartridge

[@banjer4u]

I have done A LOT of experimenting with the 30-30 and improved loads. Yes one determining factor is keeping the overall cartridge length just long enough to cycle through your rifle. A positive for the standard 30-30 case is it has a longer neck than it really needs . If you are shooting longer bullets, there is some room to trim the neck down so you can still crimp on the cannelure and keep the rounds shoort enough to cycle in your rifle. That is a trick I use in one of my handloads . Give that a try and see if it helps.

[@jamesonoakes6816]

Yet another advantage for the savage model 99

[@beestoe993]

I have sometimes toyed around with the idea of building an improved 30-30 on a bolt action just for giggles. But even that, even in a strong bolt action with modern spitzer bullets would still not be in the same ball park as a 308, because the 30-30 brass is just too thin to be driven at higher pressures.

[@oldgoat1890]

You are correct. "Working pressure" in SAAMI specs means the case, not so much the gun.

[@robertwatson818]

.30-30 Ackley Improved.

[@oldgoat1890]

@@robertwatson818 Wildcat, not a 30-30.

[@robertwatson818]

@@oldgoat1890 .30-30 Ackley Improved. Still .30--30 just "improved". You can still use factory ammo. I have a friend who has an older Marlin chambered in this. .308 performance is easy to obtain. if you do this--make sure the person doing it uses the ORIGINAL Ackley dimensions for the reamer. Many folks make their own "versions" of it--each claiming theirs to be "better".

[@oldgoat1890]

@@robertwatson818 Wildcat. 30-30 resizing dies will not make a "30-30 "Improved" case, so it is a wildcat. What you are describing is "Fireforming". I am a fan of P.O. Ackley's research and gunsmithing, but his silly "Improved" cartridges have ruined a lot of good factory rifles.

[@kevingary7018]

Ron, I always enjoy the math lesson, thanks for the video. When I was a teenager, the old folks looked at the 30-30, and told me to hunt deer, I needed a 270 or a 30 -06. I recently purchased a 308, and now the younger generation is telling me I need something else. :) I'm thinking as long as it puts meat in the freezer, who cares?

[@zoeyshoots]

Lol. All the city guys are raving over the 6.5 Go get ya one. Don’t forget everybody’s 2 favorites, 25.06 and 350 legend. You’ll have them covered for sure... lol. To your point... it’s about the. “ loins” according to Rut Daniels.. freezer filler.. Like me, I’m sure you have put one or two in the freezer with all those calibers.

[@bryantitus6634]

I'm having issues with my right (dominant) eye right now, and while I had a 30-06 as a teen, and I can shoot it even still with the scope. However, I do a lot of big woods hunting where it's not difficult to put 10 miles on your boots a day. And my 700 with scope and sling is right at 9lb empty. A couple year back, pre-eye issue, I bought a Rossi R92 in 44 mag with a 16" carbine barrel. It weighs right at 6lb with a sling, empty. I fell in love with the 'ultra-light' concept. I put a lot of miles on with that rifle and it's responsible for my best buck to date. Fast forward to my current issue. Open sights aren't confidence inspiring, even the ghost ring setup is giving me issues. I still want a lightweight rifle setup. I just picked up a Howa 1500 Mini-action in 6.5 grendel. With the standard contour 22" barrel it's listed at 5.7lb. After a 2-7x33 Leopold is slapped onto it, with a sling, I should still handily be under 7lb. But my upside is I'll be able to confidently shoot it again as optics for the time being are working for me, without giving up my new found love for 'ultra-light' compact rifles. Years ago, I'd be wanting more "knock down power" than a 6.5 grendel, but considering it starts out parallel with the 250 savage but with far more efficient projectiles that allows it to hit downrange more like a .257 Roberts or a bit better. And the 257 BOB is arguably the ideal all around deer cartridge ever built. I'm excited to start carrying the Howa this fall. I won't promote the grendel as a 400 yard deer gun even though ballistically it is capable as such. If you plan to shoot over 300 yards at deer, chances are you are practiced enough to handle a more potent chambering that will undeniable poke bigger holes at further distances. And I'll use my 30-06 running Hornady superformance 165gr loads if I predict shots being much over 200-250 for any reason. My wife also has shown interest, as have my growing kids, for trying to shoot a deer themselves in the future. My wife is not an experienced shooter and is small I'm stature so a lightweight soft recoiling round that still has the capability really has its merits. At the ranges 99% of deer are harvested on this continent, a 30-30 or even 44 mag lever gun will not be in any way insufficient to the task. Very few animals, prior to this latest long range craze, are taken at ranges over 200 yards. White I am an eastern hunter, I've hunted fields where the potential for shots in excess of 500-600+ are possible. My longest shot at a deer was 360 yards and it's the one other time at over 200 and it was the same deer the following night at about 225.. I shot one coyote at 265 yards, and a fox at 410 yards. Otherwise every single shot at any game has been inside 200 yards. Honestly, a 30-06, .270, and even .308 are MORE than the majority of hunters actually need for anything smaller and lighter built than elk or black bear. Not to mention the hoards of hunters running 7mm, 300s, and other magnums.

[@stevebailey3089]

Stick with 308 you won't be sorry

[@austinhuber3131]

Different cartridges have different advantages. That's why it matters. That's like saying, all cars have four wheels, why would anyone need a pickup?

[@georgemcarthur488]

I agree. Started shooting deer with a 7x57 way back, went through the magnumitis phase and now I'm down to killing them with 223(with Barnes of course) and it never fails. Cheers!🤘

[@joelmcmahan7386]

Enjoy all these, Ron has the knowledge to do this. I’ve taken beer and deer with the 30/30, but have watched my uncles use 308 for years. The 308 is a legend and 30/30 is also, but for distance the 308 would be my choice. Thanks again Ron good hunting to you and yours. 🎥👍💯

[@m118lr]

..Both have their ‘application’ and BEST-served distance and power/velocity advantages. The .30-30 is an excellent ‘brush-‘gun and easy to wield or carry. The .308 Win punches that extra distance with power on tap..

[@jjgriffin3275]

the Fact you have the Henry is AWESOME!!!!!

[@joracer1]

Ron you are a national treasure. And every time I hear anyone talk about the 30-30 my ears perk up....BTW there's several guys shooting the 30-30 marlin 336 free standing open sights at 300, 400, 500 yards hammering a 10 inch plate. It's called confidence and determination, and beyond good shooting skills... its shocking.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks joracer1.

[@bustabass9025]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Who's Rod?🤔

[@Dcm193]

It can shoot that far but you get bad performance

[@Lure-Benson]

I am sure you think 500 yards is 3 city blocks

[@jayclark2077]

@@Lure-Benson : Meaning?

[@keithfreeman5204]

Here in Michigan both the 30-30 and the .308 have taken their share of Deer. No matter the caliber, not matter the raw power, no matter the range, it's still, Bullet Placement, Bullet Placement, Bullet Placement. A hit just behind the front shoulder or a hit on the base of the skull. Either 30 caliber bullet will do the trick.

[@clintonlayne9253]

Don't forget the 35 Remington in Michigan.

[@maxpinson5002]

I've shot plenty of whitetail deer and swine with a 30/30 and other "unsuitable " cartridges. You don't need any special ammunition to do the job, and a regular old flatnose bullet doesn't turn down into the ground at 100 yards. You can cleanly kill deer out past 100 if you're sighted correctly and can hold properly. I've never recovered a " mushroomed " 30/30 bullet. All pass throughs which is what I want. 2 holes to let blood out and air in. They still work fine.

[@m118lr]

Love BOTH these calibers..but both have different..and deserve respectfully, different applications. I concur! Great vid Ron..thanks!

[@chipsterb4946]

I agree. The .30-30 Winchester was designed for a lever action rifle and functions perfectly in one. With iron sights or a LPFO (2x or 3x), the .30-30 works out to 200-250 yards. Where I live in southern Maine, that covers 99% of potential shots. OTOH the .308 Winchester was designed for bolt action and semi-auto rifles. It delivers twice the energy or more, and the effective hunting range can be 500 yards depending on the bullet. (Target range is farther.) Now if you have a Browning BLR chambered in .308 Winchester, you’ve got the lever action rifle with spire tip .308 ballistics and that’s a good thing! (Box magazine instead of tube feed)

[@mothman-jz8ug]

Perhaps some can remember rifles like the Savage model 340 or the Remington 788, bolt action rifles which were available in 30-30 chambering. They were somewhat stronger than most lever guns, and other higher pressure calibers were chambered in the same rifles. For example, the Remington 788 was available in 308, 243, 22-250 among others. It is obvious that hotter handloads would be a piece of cake for this. Moreover, both of the aforementioned rifles had box magazine, so - in theory - pointed bullets could be used. PROBLEM: The magazines were too short, being barely long enough for the original round nose 30-30 loads. Pointed bullets could be fired without issue, of course, but the rifle was then a single shot, as the ammo was too long for the magazine. Some who had been using lever guns bought the 788, thinking they already had the basic loading tools, plenty of brass, etc, but were hoping for much improved performance at longer distance They discovered they had simply purchased a repeater that was clumsier to cycle, or that they had a single shot rifle.

[@pc10mm57]

There is always Hornady's Leverevolution. It allows a plastic tip bullet to be safely used in lever action rifles. I use these in my Marlin 45-70 and never have had an issue.

[@siegehammer63]

My father killed a few whitetail with them, and loved them. Used to shoot coffee cans at 350 at the local range with his 336 and a 3-9 scope.

[@rossgreenzweig]

I use the Leverevolution in my 336 and its a game changer, nothing dangerous about it, the rubber tip won't set off the primers.

[@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080]

Yes or Winchester's "Dear Season Copper".

[@rossgreenzweig]

@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080 i didn't know that was out, thank you for your message!

[@warrengreen3217]

Leverevolution is a gun powder hornady makes to get higher fps not a bullet, the flex tip theres two types hornady makes lead and copper got a pointed rubber tip for higher BC

[@secretariat1703]

Hi Ron.To me the 30-30 is the best when hunting whitetails in thick woods moving slowly following a track in the snow.That’s how i learned to hunt with my dad’s rifle he bought in 1957.Still using it on snowy days.When you get to a meadow it shoots straight up to 200 yards.Will kill anything! In a stand i use my 30-06 with a scope .No need to frankenstein a cartridge.Never.Great work Ron.

[@henryherman9113]

If you want a little more velocity in your 30/30 use the Hornady FTX 160 gr Leverloution

[@awiedevilliers1288]

Words of wisdom thanks a lot uncle Ron 308's are very popular in South Africa if you put them bullet through the vitals both will work at appropriate range

[@404nitro]

Another excellent and well stated video Ron. I will add that you can help the 30-30 out some by using 125/130 gr bullets. It still won't push them fast enough for them to be bombs like they might be in the 308 and larger rounds, but they will flatten the trajectory and they expand decently, as well as hold together decently at 30-30 speeds. If you use the 125 Accu-tips in a SS or stack magazine type gun, you get the best combo of all. I'm kinda surprised Hornady hasn't seen the light yet and introduced a flex tip in 125/130 gr weight yet.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks for the idea, 404.

[@dr.froghopper6711]

A 125-130 gr bullet should be outstanding! You spark ideas in this old brain!

[@warrengreen3217]

Hornady does make a 120gr flex tip I bought them thinking they was 150gr but when I got home seen they was 120gr so I took them back and got the 150gr RN interlock I should have reloaded them to see how they did

[@404nitro]

@@dr.froghopper6711 I've been using the Speer 130 FP bullet for years in my 30-30. It does around 2500-2550 fps depending on the load. It has a very good rep for holding together on game.

[@404nitro]

@@warrengreen3217 I believe that what you had was the SST bullet and it has a much tougher/harder plastic tip than the soft flex tip made for tube magazine guns.

[@Jean-pierreNantel]

Thank you Ron for all the good informations you are giving us. It is always a pleasure to listen to you.

[@oldmangreywolf6892]

35 rem had the issue of pointed bullets in tubular magazines. I think they originally made the 35 rem 150 grain first. After finding the issue of primer strikes in the tube, they made the 200 grain round nose. But you can still use the 150 grain in the Remington model 8 Semi-auto.

[@Lure-Benson]

I reload the 35 Rem with Barns TTSX 200 grain that goes in the Marlin chamber then round noise in the tube magazine. The Barns TTSX is only used with every animal dead

[@sonnygunz9207]

I use 30 wcf in model 94’s and a 336 because it does everything I need when I’m in the woods. I don’t need or expect it to be a .308 Winchester. If I need over 175 yards then a .308 Win is the gun.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Yes sir, Sonny. I think that is the smartest approach.

[@Me2Lancer]

Thanks for your important and safe recommendations for hunting with a 30-30. I've had Hornady flex-tip rounds since they were first introduced and their is no question they improved safety. That said, the better alternative is to use a 308 caliber rifle with a box magazine.

[@gimpyRW]

As you you know by now I'm a little different. I bought my son a bolt action .30-30 when he was young and I've always been curious about loading pointed bullets for it. Thank for answering that question for me.

[@mrdinme.4768]

My Savage bolt 30-30, loves the 160 Hornady lever revolution bullets, but I run standard 170 grain rd nose in my Marlin 30-30, they like different things.

[@laughingdog6010]

Thank you, I love the thirty thirty, but I love and adore them all, I have my grandpa’s savage M99. That’s closer to 308 level of performance. I will not put a scope on that rifle so I feel I have plenty of power within iron sight range.

[@oldschooldude8370]

Love this guy. So excited & all about it with knowledge to boot.

[@stephenhair5501]

Different tools for different jobs. I have the utmost respect for the venerable 30-30. Lever actions are a classic. But I love my .308 bolt rifle. Interesting twist on loading only 2 pointed bullets in a tube fed lever action. That would work just fine. As always, thanks for sharing Ron. Really enjoyed this one. Stay well and God Bless.

[@rikertvonfulton16]

And think with a but stock shell holder you have 4 or 5 more rounds very close at hand. Could probably reload a single round in 3 seconds.

[@cervus-venator]

Thanks Ron. I didn't think so, but I have never loaded for the 30-30 so there you go.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

In most practical senses, going with the 160gr FTX by Hornady extends your .30-30 killing range by approximately 110 yards. I dug through a lot of details to get to that estimate.

[@timclaus8313]

The FTX bullets are easy to load, and easy to get up to 2400fps with Leverevolution powder. Fast enough for a 6 1/2 lb rifle, especially in wooded areas. And yes, my 308 loads with 150 gr bullets are pushing 2900 fps, and they are not maxed out loads.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@timclaus8313 Yeah, comparatively, my estimates showed the 160 FTX had about the same energy as the conventional flat pointed style bullet, but just over 100 yards further out.

[@timclaus8313]

@@exothermal.sprocket Good compromise between a 150 and 170, and it hits hard.

[@timclaus8313]

@@exothermal.sprocket Agree, I did good good range accuracy with the 160 FTX bullets.

[@chuckydubree1925]

I think the 30- 30 does great for what it was designed to do thanks for posting

[@stevendonnalammar4422]

I thought it would be fun trying to load some spitzer bullets in some cartridges for my Savage 340. However while it may chamber it would still be a single shot as the magazine doesn't have enough room to clear a bullet that's any longer than a 170 grain flat tip. I also don't know if you could tweak the powders at all to higher pressures as it only has one locking lug on the bolt. If a person could find a Remington 788 chamber to 30-30 that might be the ticket.

[@mrdinme.4768]

My Savage loves the 160 Hornady’s, just saying, they run fine from my mag. ignore me if you like tinkering w/loads.

[@mopardoctor9966]

I shortened the necks on some cases so the spritzers would seat properly and work in the magazine on the Savage 340. Accuracy was terrible. Too much freebore.

[@juangarza7732]

I have the win model 88 in 308, my grandpas gun. Love it you should feature it some day

[@royjohnson465]

Juan Garza ~The Browning BLR (especially the stainless steel, takedown model) and Henry Long Ranger. "Lever-actions with removable box magazines." >>>I also have a Winchester model 88 in .308, beautiful light-weight and smooth. Browning and Winchester are owned by the same company so only the BLR is made now.

[@sylviajones3355]

My dad likes his too. The only time I've saw much talk about the model 88 on a major youtube channel was by Paul Harrell in the "Sighting in a deer rifle" episode. I could be a little off in the episode name.

[@RandoQuestion]

I have a Wilson Combat .300 hamr. I shoot 130 gr hotcore. Could you look at that too maybe compare to a .308 or 30-30, please? Great channel by the way!

[@hardball107]

I live in upstate NY and love early Northern Tier hunting in the Adirondack mountains. I have a small camp there and an old Marlin lever gun in 30/30 resides there. For the last 30 years or so it's been stoked with my handloads. A 130gr Sierra HP/FN (sku2020) top a case of CFE223 with a CCI #34 primer now-a-days, it used to be Re7 but these new powders have opened up a whole new vista in velocity. I'm getting well over 2600fps across my Chrony and the performance on Whitetails is outstanding with most taken at 100 yards or less, a few more but always one shot stops and in those woods that's always a good thing. If I get skunked early in the season, not unusual, my Ruger American comes out in 450 BM with a 3x9 Vortex to fill the freezer but it's almost like just dialing it in with that. There is just something about really hunting, not just shooting that I enjoy and those 130's in that old 30/30 has never let me down.

[@davidteague5461]

Great video. Love the info. I like the history u tell on the loads and guns . Thanks .

[@philliphill4763]

Good Safety advice. Thanks Ron!

[@kylegrecco3822]

I’ve been using poly tip projectiles like in the hornady lever evolution loads. The tips aren’t hard enough to indent the primer.

[@bradbo3]

Ive used Hornady lever revolutions in my 30-30 and 45-70 and they do go a bit faster….shoot a bit higher….and typically group very well….BUT…ive found if the deer is under 40 yds…they dont expand. Pass through and holes are almost the same size. But out past that yardage they do expand and do more damage….and quicker kill. I also do double lungs to spare shoulder meat …so maybe it would be fine if I hit shoulder instead. 52 and still learning….I guess thats why I wont ever get tired of hunting.

[@jacobmccandles1767]

My brother is doing the "single loading" method, and getting hits on 8" steel at 500 yards. ...but BPCR is his discipline. His M-94 is his walking around rifle.

[@chuckydubree1925]

They are a lot of good single shot rifles out there chambered in 30-30

[@demetriuscooksey7147]

Short answer: No it cannot.😅 But I must add I like them both and believe they each have their place and remain relevant in this day and age.

[@tsmithkc]

Don't forget the Hornady polymer-tipped LeveRevolution bullets and the Winchester Ballistic Silvertips. Bullets with polymer tips to prevent that chainfire issue you mentioned.

[@ryanehlis426]

Well the 160 gr lever evolution hornady loading helps a lot. You could probably hot load the 30-30 in a modern Marlin lever gun and also a spritzer bullets just put one in chamber and one in magazine

[@blueduck9409]

Hornady lever evolution ammo already does that, and its pressure safe too.

[@russty3159]

I own 3 caliber of guns for hunting 270, 308 and a 30-30 Ron you got to check out the hornady Leverevolution 30-30 bullets they are unreal for out to over 200 yds and with the soft tip you can load 4 or 5 bullets in the pipe as you said near the end of this video.

[@StarSurfer55]

Great video. Very interesting. Does anyone remember the .307 which if I recall was a rimmed version of the .308 and was chambered in lever action rifles

[@royjohnson465]

~Also the Browning BLR (especially the stainless steel, takedown model) and Henry Long Ranger. All lever-actions with removable box magazines. >>I have a Winchester model 88 in .308.

[@stormannorman8881]

The absolute finest model 94 ever made. The 307 is awsome.

[@marktwain580]

Yep, I had that big bore, chose .307 over the then offered .356.

[@wapitiRack13]

Yup, I hunt mule deer and elk with 307 and 356 win in Idaho.

[@PresMonroe]

I have a TC Encore with 24” MGM barrel ! Hallelujah !! Love 100 yr old plus cartridges !!!

[@bifftannen4539]

Well, Rooster Cogburn didn't look as cool shooting a bolt action 308...Jk LONG LIVE LEVER GUNS! Love the content Mr. Spomer

[@russellkeeling4387]

For a time I owned a bolt action 30-30. I had a lot of fun loading for it and used a lot of pointed bullets. One of my favorites was a 110 grain bullet because I could get it a little faster. I didn't hunt with it. I've read the reason loads don't go any higher for the 30-30 is because the case in not strong enough to be able to load up much without danger. The only thing I killed were targets with the 110 grain bullets and two bovine that were to sick to be cured. It took care of that job well.

[@mikecronan550]

I used to load 140gr accubonds in my 30-30. The trick? 2 rounds only. 1 in the pipe one in the magazine. You don't want a pointed bullet in a tube magazine resting on a primer. Shot great.

[@mgmitchell92]

Always enjoy your videos! Keep on keepin' on, Ron!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks!

[@untermench3502]

I load my 308 to 30-30 or 300 Savage velocity using bullets designed for the 30-30. It has plenty of power to hunt game here in Maine, where the shots are 100 yds or less , and at those velocities and pressures, the rifle should last many generations. If I ever plan to hunt in open country, where the shots demand a hotter cartridge, I can use factory ammunition.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Sounds like a smart idea, unter.

[@davidzakrzewicz707]

I used that same method to tame a .30-06 for a neighbor kid because it was the only gun he had and he was a little guy. Used it in an old beater 06 I had that kicked like a mule with full loads and it killed things just fine.

[@untermench3502]

@@davidzakrzewicz707 I was very surprised at the accuracy of the 30-30 bullets when shot in a good rifle. I started testing several years ago using my Savage 116 in 30-06, using the Sierra pro hunter 150 gr flat nose bullet designed for the 30-30. It doesn't have the BC of a good spitzer bullet, but under 100 yds, it works just fine and as long as you keep the muzzle velocity below 2600 fps, it will expand properly without coming apart on target.

[@royjohnson465]

@@davidzakrzewicz707 ~I have several boxes of >>Hornady Custom Lite 125 grain in 30-06

[@davidzakrzewicz707]

@@royjohnson465 I have heard of the managed recoil rounds but never tried them. I started my kids on a .243 and when they got big enough to handle a larger caliber I let them pick what they wanted to shoot. As of now the cartridges they’ve chosen are .30-06, .280 , .270, .257 Roberts, and one still on my old .243. They are grown now, except the youngest, and have all taken deer successfully with their chosen rifles. I hand load for all of them.

[@MNBuckhunter]

love the 308! In my opinion the 30.06 270 or 308 are the 3 best deer hunting cartridges ever made...I also like the 7mm rem mag

[@davidnorth4486]

The Hornady Leverevolution FTX in 30-30 is an amazing round. I've yet to try the 350 Legend FTX, but if it's anything like the 30-30 FTX it will be a peach.

[@blueduck9409]

That Hornady ammo is very good stuff. It doubled the practical accuracy of the old 30-30. Excellent performance on game too. For me, its my go to ammo for hunting with the 30-30. It dont get much better than that Hornady ammo.

[@burnsboysaresoldiers]

My savage 219 .30-30 with a 26” barrel shooting the leverevolution loads or the 170grain federal fusions is just sweet. Love swinging steel at 300 with it

[@danielfisher9344]

Hard to believe any old timers ever survived without all the ballistic ability we have nowadays.

[@Simon-talks]

yeah, especially with self made stick bows with sinew strings and broad heads carved from flint rocks

[@bobsbarnworkshop]

It’s called competence and accuracy! Skill!

[@timothyprice9064]

The joke is they are better at selling things you don't need.

[@joshuamoses1631]

They survived because they didn't have all the new technology. Hardly if no scopes, and way better natural marksman then anyone today.

[@ZacisBadatGuitar]

Most guns will, in fact, put holes in things.

[@laurogarza4953]

Using my 1914 built Savage 1899H, I am shooting 30-30 Winchester using the same powder, primers and boattail spitzer bullets as used in my 30-06 Springfield. At iron sights range, 100 - 200 yards, it's a great shooter with very flat trajectory.

[@teedermcdribble]

2,261 fps was the max I got chronographing 7 shots of the 160 gr flex tips from hornady coming out of my marlin 336 30-30. If you leave them loaded in the tubular magazine for a while then the tips start to mush also. They seem to be more accurate at 100 yds then my 150 or 170 rnfp bullets though. Thanks for the great vids.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with that ammo.

[@jerroldshelton9367]

I have a Marlin 336 in .30-30. I shoot Hornady 160 grain "gummy tips" out of it almost exclusively. Mine chronographs close to the advertised 2,350 at 5,450' above sea level. Average was around 2,345 fps.

[@teedermcdribble]

@@jerroldshelton9367 That's pretty good. Are you using the factory ammo? I'm just using the bullets and loading my own using the leverloution powder. I'm a bit below the max charge but it's good enough for me to just plink around with. Thanks for sharing.

[@jerroldshelton9367]

@@teedermcdribble I shot the factory ammo until I could get the LVR powder and component bullets. Now it's handloads only. I'm loading them full-throttle per the charge listed on the LVR bottle. I'm doing that because it happens to result in the best accuracy in my rifle, and for no other reason. I used to think that my Marlin 336 would be the perfect hunting rifle if I could hit reliably with it out to 300 yards. "300" stems from the fact that in 46 seasons, the longest shots I've ever taken on game were both about 275 yards. One was at a pig on California's Santa Rosa Island while shooting a 1903 Springfield in .30-'06. The other was at a mule deer in a California high desert mountain range while shooting a Ruger No.1 B in .300 Weatherby. I couldn't hit the kill-zone sized gong every time at 300 yards with my Marlin 336 when using conventional .30-30 bullets. I almost could with the factory Leverevolution ammo. That was a game-changing experience for me. Noting the good accuracy people were getting with the 336 XLR and Leverevolution, I bobbed my magazine tube to half-length and attached it as Marlin did on the XLR variant. I put a new "gummy tip compatible" follower in it. I glass bedded the butt to the receiver Now I have no trouble repeatedly going "4 for 4" on the 300 yard kill zone gong. That's as far as I am willing to pull the trigger on a critter. The rifle / ammo combo does everything I need a hunting rifle to do. As a result, my formerly extensive gun collection has shrunk considerably. ;)

[@teedermcdribble]

@@jerroldshelton9367 Seeing how high the cost of primers and powder still is I think this may be my first summer in years that I just plink around with the 22 and don't do much reloading. Maybe things will become more reasonable in a little while.

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Thanks young man Ron👀👍👍

[@K-bob_45]

This is much like people comparing 6.5 needmoor to 30-06. Sometimes there is just no replacement for displacement.

[@michaelhmfic8346]

Love the Hornady FTX 30-30 best bullet for my old lever

[@jk-kr8jt]

Great video Ron. I do have a couple of bolt 30-30s, Remington and Savage. I'm not a reloader, yet, but always wanted to play with the 30-30 in a bolt just to see what could be done. Keep up the good work. Cheers, Jeff

[@mopardoctor9966]

Magazine length in the Savage 340 won’t allow to seat a pointed bullet in proper position.

[@jk-kr8jt]

@@mopardoctor9966 thanks Mopar. I didn't know that. Not yet being a reloader I always forget to remember about magazine length and cartridge length. Keep well.

[@robaldridge6505]

@@mopardoctor9966 savage has to have mag reworked for shoulder clearance, stay with 150 or less grain bullets (heavier won't open anyway) and your good to go

[@robaldridge6505]

@@mopardoctor9966 .... gotta 1966 Power Wagon stepside, 318, 4 speed granny tranny... GRIN !!!!

[@mopardoctor9966]

@@robaldridge6505 Groundpounder!

[@missey316]

My father use to re load his 30 30 rounds albeit Hot but it was enough to punch holes in the steel web of an old railroad track . He had a 30 30 bolt action though.

[@briansearles4473]

I have been looking for a Henry 30 30 for some time now. Really envy your case hardened version on the table beside you. From what I have heard from other reviews is that Hornady's Flex tip gives an extra 50/100 yards effective range over conventional rounds.

[@normanmccollum6082]

Lovely video, much enjoyed! I'm not a lever guy but this channel seems worth the subscription. Cheers, keep it at!

[@shudogg1rs]

those FTX bullets do give the 30-30 "new life" and if you hand load you can get some really good performance from the 30-30. That being said it's not going to make the 30-30 a 308 by any means. Ron I look forward to your videos, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and providing fact based opinions. GREAT WORK!!!!!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks shudogg.

[@HondoTrailside]

The thing about the super bullets in the 30-30, is they are designed to perform at close woods ranges, while for 308, the idea is more towards longer ranges, and they sometime under perform, particularly coppers, at the close ranges.

[@mattdg1981]

I hunted with a guy that ran an old m99 in 308. What an amazing rifle. I want to say they stopped making them in the 60's-70's. Beautiful gun and silky smooth. It recoiled harder than you would think but still very manageable. Would love to have one.

[@sakostwwy1903]

Just goes to show there is no replacement for displacement. Would love to see an at the range review of that Marlin LR rifle. That is a really cool rifle!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Actually that Marlin LR rifle is a Henry!

[@sakostwwy1903]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Sorry about that, My mistake. I have a Marlin and have a bad habit of saying Marlin every time I am talking lever actions.

[@lylewalters909]

You need to check out the husband n wife team from Australia. Markandsam after work. He just did a video of the 30-30s and was shooting sharp tipped bullets out past 1000yrds. It blew my mind with a 30-30.

[@cameronjaeger]

Great video. Not sure about those velocity numbers for the 308 though. I've never pushed a 308 much past 2800 ft/s in a 20 inch gun, which is much closer to my 30/30 performance (2500ft/s with berger 155gr vlds).

[@michaelvangundy226]

I like the way you handle firearms. You don't slam bolts or drop triggers. Great knowledge and care. Keep the show growing, thanks.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Well, I slam bolts when I'm taking follow-up shots in a hurry.

[@stevedouglas5443]

I've been thinking this exact same thing for decades. Nothing wrong with 2 rounds.

[@aaronwilcox6417]

I've used the 30-30 a bit and it's fine at shorter ranges. My BLR and scout rifle in 308win are more modern and capable but they all have their role. If I need heavier I load the 30-06 with 200gr and 220gr bullets for heavy hitting and penetration. If I want an smaller bore I use an 270win. Sticking with the popular 30 cal cartridges and the 270win is just smart logistics and economy.

[@MrBDUB450]

One more thought on using the .30-30 in a lever action. I have tried it with my grandfather's Savage 99 with rotary magazine and ran into an interesting issue that will apply with traditional lever guns trying to operate as a 2 shot. You will run into a cartridge OAL issue. You can make it work, but you need to seat the bullet way deep to hit the max OAL that will cycle through the action. But yes, let a .30-30 be a .30-30 and let a .308 be a .308.

[@m118lr]

..agreed

[@rgalletta58]

Sounds like a Bible verse! Amen!

[@jakepiemme9600]

The 99s are a bit finicky with reloads and more often than not it is just as u said, length. I found this to be true in 308 and 250-3000 as well.

[@bryantitus6634]

The 2 round 'cheaters' may be actually getting close to the mid range trajectory of the .308, but you overlooked a newer option in getting there. The .300 BLK and .30 AR have 125gr pointed soft point options. They rival cup and core type ballistic coefficients of more standard 150gr loadings. The projectiles themselves are short than pointed or even round nose 150s. Federal already has a 125gr JHP factory load that I believe runs in the ballpark of 2600 fps. I'd think running a hot-ish load behind a 125 PSP would put you within sniffing distance of the more standard core-lokt, PowerPoint, PowerShot, interlock, etc 150gr 308 loads. And I believe Barnes has a 110gr tsx bullet for the 300 BLK that would be able to be driven quite fast from a 30-30 I'd assume.

[@mrdinme.4768]

I like it! Well said!

[@ronrichmond4694]

Thanks for another informative/fun video. 👍❤️👍

[@gizmocarr3093]

The 30-30 is plainly a good cartridge because it has lasted this long. It is proof that range and powerful cartridges are over rated for the most part. The average deer hunter, bear hunter, moose and elk hunter don’t shoot more than a couple boxes of cartridges a season. And that is even more than most do. So none need a rifle that can hit a Bumblebee in the ass at 400-yards even if they wanted too. They don’t have the shooting skills to come close. Hunting skills are a little more of value than buying a bazooka to hunt with. Archery hunters sort of prove that theory; since they use arrows that take the same big game as rifle hunters do. You can add muzzle loaders to the list too. You can choose; learn to hunt or talk about bullet speed and power that never put meat in the pot. 😅😂🙄🙂

[@mrdinme.4768]

Thank you! Thats been my argument to the guys that claim a shot @ 990yds, no hunting skill to sniping. When I could bow hunt, 40-45 yds was about as far as I might take a shot. Hunt from the ground, and in heavy woods, my muzzle loader, or 30-30 does just fine now. Yeah I have a 308, but it spends time at the range, 30-30 goes hunting, most shots are inside 75yds.max.

[@higgins7965]

There is no substitute for bullet placement.

[@Kross8761]

@@mrdinme.4768 that's all well and good, but there is plenty of skill involved at hitting an animal at long range. First you have to be able to shoot long range to begin with (not plinking at long range shooting 10 inch steel plates with a million chances, hitting something the size of a coffee mug at distance with one chance) at long range the bullet is traveling slower, which is why many long range hunters choose calibers that start out "too fast" for some people's taste so that when the bullet reaches it's target it still has enough velocity to initiate expansion and take the animal down quickly, cleanly, and ethically. I know a dozen people who can hit a 36" gong at 1000 yards, but only 2 of them can hit a cantaloupe at that distance with less than 5 shots, and only one of those two can do it reliably. Hitting the animal is not good enough, you often have to be *more* precise than you would up close because the bullet isn't going to perform as efficiently as it would at higher velocity. The 30-30 is still an excellent cartridge within its performance envelope, but new developments have led to improved cartridges (whether many people have an actual need for them is one thing, but the newer cartridges themselves are an improvement)

[@mrdinme.4768]

@@Kross8761 Ok, please understand, all I am saying is, I differentiate between, long range shooting, and hunting, stalking, getting into close range. I get where long range is some folks cup of tea, yes it involves looking for game, shooting from one mountain top across to another, out west I get that. I live in NE, always been heavy woods, the average shot(about 35-45yds) on very nervous, jumpy white tail. I am not insulting long range, but its a different category of hunting to me. Yes, Im sure both categories have those that make me shake my head. Some guys around here think they NEED a 300 win. mag. or a 7mm mag.? Now out west I understand that better. Im sure you know guys that stretch their cal. choices, like maybe a 30-30 trying a 650 yd shot? Thats all, I was only speaking from my experiences, not insulting or berating anything.

[@Kross8761]

@@mrdinme.4768 That's fair enough, and that's sort of true for me, I live in East Tennessee and rarely come across a shot longer than 150-200yds, but I like to practice at long range because I go out west to hunt elk with my stepfather. He uses a 300WM to devastating effect and I've recently picked up a 300PRC, which is essentially just a modernized win mag that can handle longer, heavier bullets. Long range isn't something I come across naturally where I live, but I love shooting and practicing at long range because it's different, and I do actually get to put my skills to the test fairly often.

[@spookshilljoe7376]

Another good video with lots of info, especially for the younger hunters out there.

[@joebarrett5310]

The Hornady FTX and Monoflex bullets have upped the game of most tube fed lever rifles at least a little bit. But as your data points out Ron, you still won't be on par to a 308 Win with a 30-30 unless you are seriously over pressuring it. However, Winchester gave us true 308 Win performance from a model 94 with the Big Bore 94 in 307 Win. It is very near identical to 308 Win dimensionally speaking and operates at considerably higher pressure than 30-30. The main difference is the 307 is a rimmed cartridge. I've seen many reports in the shooters community that some 307 will actually cycle and chamber 308 Win brass. This is an option some 307 owners who load their own had to explore due to the general scarcity of 307 Win reloading brass. Years after Winchester discontinued the Big Bore 94 line, Marlin also attempted to market a higher powered tube fed lever action with the 308 Marlin Express with the idea of very nearly duplicating 308 Win performance. Unfortunately, just as Winchester learned, the market just didn't take to them as well as hoped. I own an early Win 94 Big Bore in 375 Win and love it. I would like to someday add the 307 and 356 Win to have a complete collection. Thanks for this video Ron. I'm a big fan of tube fed lever actions. Would love to see more! God bless

[@thebowhunter5888]

No one cares what u have

[@Wootangtw]

Awesome… thanks buddy..

[@johnwurfel2862]

If you download your .308 Win with only a rifle primer, then a .22lr will have over 150x more muzzle energy than the .308 Win, which may now have a barrel obstruction.

[@george309]

Just liked and Subscribed because Ron Kindly asked. Man you have to love this Guy

[@robertarmstrong2248]

I thought for sure you were going to say they were cheating by turning it into a 30-30AI, and then using the Hornady leverevolution bullets. That might buy you another 150-300 fps, at least according to the manuals.

[@banjer4u]

I have seen the difference . I saw a 30-30 shoot factory 170 grain ammo over a chronograph at 2190 fps . That same rifle was shooting handloaded 160 grain FTX loads over a chronograph at 2450 fps after the chamber was reamed out to 30-30 Ackley .

[@robertarmstrong2248]

@banjer4u that's an impressive gain of 322 ft•lbs (if I did my math right) and with a bullet with a far higher bc. While not .308, it does put in the vicinity of .300 savage, which isn't too bad!

[@REAPER-1xxx]

I’ve been really considering a Henry long ranger in 223. So it was nice to see one here, even if just for a moment. I’ve been hoping that Hornady would one day bring 3855 to the leverevolution line. I sure would love to get 3 some 3855 Hornady brass.

[@Mark-uq9km]

Ron, you had me laughing when you said you know there are 'hot-rodders' out there trying to make their own unique loadings in calibers not meant to perform like other high pressure and high BC loadings. Yes, we are out there. You mentioned the Savage Model 99 and the Winchester Model 88 which to me were the ultimate lever action rifles. Besides having stacked magazines or a rotary magazine like the Savage the bolt didn't get pushed back into your face like all the lever actions of yesterday and even today. Other than the Savage and Winchester my favorite is the Model 7600 (760) from Remington. It has a detachable magazine and can be loaded to higher pressures because the bolt locks forward in the receiver like a bolt action. Remington at one point made the 7600 in .35 Remington which is my darling, even though I am well aware of its limitations. But, you can pump up the pressure a little and load higher BC 180 grain bullets in it. Thanks for your fun and knowledgeable postings.

[@oldgoat1890]

The bolt locks into the barrel on the 760. The model 88 Winchester has a forward locking bolt into the receiver.

[@aaawman2280]

Mr.Ron I personally did load some of my 30-30 cases with with some of those pointy bullets, and was single feeding the levered beast, shot some groups and noticed the groups where great at 100. So I fired a few at a steel gong at 300. The limiting factor that stopped me from hitting the thing was I didn't fire but 3 shots at it, using a duplex scope, trying to guess the drop. Actually shot over it 2 and under on the last. Its amazing how that little cartridge can shot with decent bc bullets.

[@sturisa]

Great video Ron, I'm still trying to buy a Henry .30-30 or a Long Ranger in .308. Both are impossible to get right now. For what I would be hunting, deer or hogs under 200 yards, .30-30 will do just fine even with the round or flat nose bullets. If I want to stretch it out a little, the Hornady flex tips.

[@m118lr]

…are they NOT available? Stock/supply at retailers or LGS non-existent on the .30-30 AND the .308 Win?

[@sturisa]

@@m118lr I've been trying to buy either one for almost a year and that's with 2 factories in Wisconsin churning out what I heard was 30K centerfire rifles a month!

[@royjohnson465]

Look at getting the Browning BLR '81 stainless steel takedown in .308 "instead of" the Henry Long Ranger in .308. It is just about impossible for me to find a Browning BLR '81 stainless steel takedown now also.

[@scottodonahoe9505]

30.30 is my go to gun because the Coulee region I live in on the upper Mississippi River is so thick any shot over 20 yards is almost un heard of ! Best brush gun I have other than my 1960 Coast to Coast 20 gauge slug gun !

[@tonydeaton1967]

I'm wondering how you get a 308 to 3000 fps. I doubt any of my semi-autos would function under that kind of pressure.

[@j.b.1855]

I have an old stevens 325A in 30-30. These are a bolt gun with vertical stack mag. I have been tempted to do some custom loads for it.

[@russellkeeling4387]

If you use todays solid bullets you might be able to squeeze a little extra from it. Solids tend to be longer to make weight. I don't remember what the rate of twist was on my bolt action 30-30 but up in the lodge pole pine forest it could take care of any job.

[@jaybailleaux630]

No way can a 30-30 match a 308 than a 308 can match a 30-06 than a 30-06 can match a 300 Win. Mag.

[@308dad8]

Yep lower pressure allowance and smaller case capacity prevents increasing 30-30 performance to match 308, but those were respectable numbers with the Speer 150gn BTSP bullets. It cut the drop in half and roughly doubled the 300 yard energy. Honestly I don’t think the FP bullets aren’t useful at 300 yards IF you practice with your hold over for 300 yards. All you have to do is puncture a lung and Bambi is going down, “energy ft lbs” be damned. I like both and have yet to get a 308 rifle hunt worthy so I lean on the 30-30 and when I think I need more reach 25-06.