Can AIVS Handle the Filthiest Records?

[@garrapaterorulez5017]

Great vid man! I’ve been using AIVS for the past 5 years with my VPI 16.5 and I have cleaned all my records with Step 1 Enzymatic Formula, Step 2 Archivist Premium and Step 3 Ultra Pure Water. I also use 3 diif goat hair brushes when cleaning. It took me a very long time to clean 4k plus records, switch to VSS outer sleeves and new inner sleeves. It was a great feeling of accomplishment. Cheers JC/Miami

[@robinmorton7542]

I have a bi-amped and bi-wired my system with no active crossover.The signal is split from the Preamp into 2x poweramp . I use 4 core bi-wire cable which goes from each of the amps into bi-wirable speakers. One amp drives the base speakers the other the tweeters.

[@l_f_berg]

I have read in forums that Jim at Osage Audio recommends against scrubbing. I've noticed that scrubbing seems to be part of your process with that brush, but would you say that you consider "agitating" to be different than "scrubbing?" For reference, below is an excerpt from an old post by Jim. BTW, I discovered your channel recently and really love it. What a great venue for deep diving into all methods of record cleaning, and ultimately appreciating the music. Keep it up please👍 "The function of the brush is to spread fluid. We strongly discourage scrubbing. Our extensive lab testing has proven that hard scrubbing can actually make the record harder to clean"

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

Fascinating. Thanks for that. I will look into it and try an alternative approach.

[@joseauger1353]

Great episode! Just the way I am cleaning the used records I buy, as well as my older records. However, afterwards I use the KLAUDIO machine or the (new) Degriter. I don’t know why, but this last step helps a lot. Another difference: although I have a VPI Cyclone, I am using a Pro-Ject VC-S3 for these used and dirty records and the VPI for new records with the L’Art du Son fluid and KLAUDIO. The Pro-Ject has the advantage of a larger tank for the residual fluids. The VPI is very limited in this capacity. The results are excellent. Again, thanks for your episodes. I have learned a lot from them.

[@analogwisdom]

It looks like this takes just as long, if not longer than a full Kirmuss restoration process. If you already had both ways of doing it, would it not just be better to get rid of this and do a Kirmuss every time? I'd also love to see you review #6 and perhaps the Record Doctor X machine one day - that's what I use! Also, I use #15 and the Disc Doctor Brush (based off your recommendation!) as a pretreatment for particularly soiled records.

[@kirmussaudio7578]

Excellent point. All these processes leave films and are a waste of money. One wants to play a record less films from all the processes , less the film deposited on the record by the outgassing of the plasticizer while the record is in its sleeve and the release agent that surfaces due to the pressing process itself. Layman's test. Take any record cleaned by any of these chemicals and processes and while some as AI are better than most if used properly, they cannot get into the record's groove as the droplet size of the chemicals are larger than the groove itself, where the colorant in the Kirmuss ionizing agent will show what the records were coated with. A use of a frequency and spectrum analyzer will confirm where most if not all processes are made to shine a record. Shiny coated records see over time the needle becoming the cleaning agent!

[@ericelliott227]

Yes, it would be better just to go straight to the Kirmuss process. I would just recommend a small preclean on freshly acquired records first if one can to avoid putting a very dirty record in a cavitation bath. Even just a water rinse at least would do.

[@robertb5640]

I have the avis #15 and pure water rinse. im going to pick up the premium archivist since im missing the second step, and it doesn't contain alcohol so that's good. I noticed you can buy them in bundles on elusive disc, but they need to offer a bundel of the Avis #15, the premium archivist, and pure water rinse. That would be a good combination.

[@Vinylfromtheunderground]

I have the AI 6 for my vacuum and the AI for ultrasonic machines for my degritter MKII. Love them both as cleaners.

[@joseauger1353]

Correct me if I’m mistaken. As I understand from AIVS instructions, you should use water rinse after each step, particularly after the Number 15. Am I right?

[@kurtmorgan2781]

That's a good idea. Will try it.

[@buzzbabyjesus]

After watching this lengthy, expensive process, I don't see any way out of being a kind of troll. Water is the only liquid for my records, with the excess being gently removed with clean cotton rags. This has been working for me for over 50 years. Records I bought in 1972 still look and sound great. I apologize for being a fly in the ointment.

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

Not at all! I appreciate you checking us out and your thoughts. Nothing wrong with a cheap and cheerful manual process. We did an episode about cleaning records on a budget that you might appreciate, though fair warning, we do use RCF! You can check it out here and thanks for watching: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3jbeppvgKhgnJI

[@garym3658]

While I'm most definitely *NOT in the 'water only' camp, remember when all we needed was a Discwasher brush/fluid combo? *The old brushes are still nice for cleaning. *Hey...if it works for you I envy you quite a bit!

[@bradleykay]

Does the spindle on your VPI get hot after doing a handful of records with a three step process? Mine gets scorching hot. I have a 16.5.

[@ericelliott227]

I have a 16.5 myself and the spindle doesn't get hot the way I use it. This happens when one leaves the record spinning too long. Apply fluid, start spin and agitate reasonably, shut off spin, let soak for a minute, start spin, agitate a little, shut off for another minute, start spin, briefly agitate and vacuum without further agitation.

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

I've never noticed it getting hot, but now I'm curious as heck! I see the next time I clean with the VPI.

[@ericelliott227]

I use AIVS fluids exclusively after testing many others. I know AIVS like the back of my hand. In my opinion and experience AIVS is still the best record cleaning fluid on market. L'art du Son doesn't even compare, it leaves a coating on the record! It is basically perfume. (In my case I use them for newly acquired records as a first step in the restorative process). #15 is considered the heavy duty formula and used on very dirty records and is to be followed up by either the 3-step or the #6, but that is not as effective, so I always go 3-step.There is also now a concentrate formula one can use to make as strong or light as one wants. Super Cleaner formula has a tiny amount of lab grade Isopropyl. The archivist formula does the same thing, but is the choice for shellacs and those who just prefer not to have any Isopropyl in the tiniest amount. (Personal preference). I have used both. I find I use the Super cleaner more often. One thing to keep in mind with Isopropyl is that it can harden protein based contaminants to the groove walls. The amount in AIVS Super cleaner is not enough to do that, but is enough to be effective. The #6 formula is for light duty/maintenance. All AIVS formulas are enzymatic, each has enzymes. It should also be noted that the enzymes used are all plant-based unlike the Phoenix fluid, which is synthetic. (That helps explain why the Phoenix fluid is so awful). The reason you see that sometimes the "Enzymatic formula of the 3-step not covering the record evenly is indicative that something has been used on it previously. You don't need a ton of any of the AIVS fluids on the record. Three drops about the size of a 50 cent piece is enough. As to method: Using a carbon brush on a dirty record and following it with an air duster is harmful to the record! The brush especially, you are just embedding the contaminants further and micro scratching the record! NEVER brush a dirty record!! Carbon fiber brushes are for dusting a clean record only! Applying #15 without agitation and then immediately vacuuming it off does nothing. The #15 should be used the same way as the 3-step, it should be "reasonably" agitated to yield a better result. All the AIVS fluids leave a residue! Not necessarily the fluid itself like the L'art du Son or Phoenix, etc., but the remaining soaked contaminates that were not suspended in the fluid and vacuum removed. I also notice you did several revolutions of vacuuming after the Super cleaner and rinse. Two revolutions and no more are plenty, more builds up static at the least of the harm spectrum and is not good for the record. Very minimal agitation with the rinse is all that is required, no need to go crazy. Tip: if one runs out of the "Pure Rinse" Distilled water is just as good. (That is per the conversations I had with the manufacturer). The Pure Rinse is from a reverse osmosis process, which is perfectly fine, but it is $16 to $20 for a 16oz and 32oz bottle respectively. One gallon of distilled water = $1.20 and less on sale. Some records need a 3-step and some 4-steps. Does AIVS clean records? Yes, but you can't get to "restorative clean" no matter how many times you do it. It also doesn't remove pressing lube or surplus plasticizer. There are even some other contaminants it will not ultimately remove.

[@kirmussaudio7578]

I agree where of all the cleaning products out there L'Art du Son is the most difficult for the Kirmuss to remove the inadvertent coating this solution leaves on the record.

[@drplasmodius]

2$-3$ in solution for each cleaning?

[@ericelliott227]

3-step = about $1.50 to $2 sans Pure Water using distilled instead. 4-step = about $2 to $2.50 sans Pure Water using distilled rinse instead. Use Pure Water rinse add $75 cents to each. Still, considering the price of new records which still need to be cleaned anyway, I'd rather buy a used record and spend $2.75 to $4 plus my own labor cleaning and restoring it. A VPI will set you back about $1100 to $1200, a Kirmuss machine will set you back about $1100 or less on sale or $1300 regular, but either will pay for itself over time. The Kirmuss machine will have the biggest and quickest ROI (return on investment). I got my VPI many moons ago, back when they were around $800. It took about 7 months for it to break even (pay for itself) and start giving returns. The Kirmuss machine is a whole other level. Today it would take about 1.3 years for a VPI to break even and start returns, a Kirmuss machine depending on price would be about 7 or 8 months to 1 year to break even. The results though are game changing. With a Kirmuss machine you need only buy distilled water (one average bottle of 70% Isopropyl (rubbing alcohol) which is optional and will last you for years) and occasionally the ionizer/surfactant. The Ionizer/surfactant is pricey, but about the same as one bottle of AIVS, the refill of it which will do 200+ records depending is about $5 more than a 16 ounce AIVS 3+step kit which will do about 200 records, but will not do restorative cleaning! In other words, AIVS may give good results in reducing some noise and if lucky about a 1 to 2 dB gain, but learning to restore records will make records virtually noiseless (provided the record was not previously damaged) and a guaranteed 3dB to 4dB gain minimum.

[@naradaian]

Thats not a dirty record - it was obviously not worn, white dust from vinyl cover leach or with dirt on it or significantly in grooves….what the hell is this supposed to be about . So this is just phooey

[@davepounds8924]

This guy makes cleaning a record into a complicated process with special expensive materials, cleaners, machines that cost a small fortune! A 400 dollar Hummiguru and a 1 dollar bottle of distilled water does a fantastic job with cleaning records The rest is overkill

[@LetsCleanaRecord]

I hope to try the Hummiguru soon. Thanks for watching!

[@GMontgomery-s1z]

I own a HummingGuru too, but I 100% disagree that it, combined with just water, is all that's needed. At least FOR ME it isn't. 1st: I find that using a surfactant in the HummingGuru water improves results. I'm using AIVS Ultrasonic Enzyme cleaner in the Ultrasonic, but do a preclean with Record Dr solution or ~5ml/liter (if I remember correctly) ILFOTOL always in distilled water. I ALSO have a suction machine. Mine is the new Record Doctor X; I upgraded from their single sided machine and am glad that I did. I also have a Spin Clean type machine that I use to clean and soak records in an enzyme cleaner. I bought it off of eBay for >$50 & plan on buying another as a rinse unit to use before drying. Again, this is what works FOR ME. However, I absolutely suggest the use of a surfactant in the HummingGuru.

[@ryantaylor1637]

If you can’t tell the difference then all the better for your back pocket, like buying wine.

[@davepounds8924]

@@ryantaylor1637 Yes, Some people need a 500 dollar bottle and others love a 50 dollar bottle of wine done clean records with thousands of dollars worth of cleaning supplies while others clean with a 400 dollar machine The more expensive one isn’t necessarily needed or better