So after side two sat on the mat (dirty) you put the cleaned side one on it! Does that not re-contaminate? For the test I would suggest that you only clean one side of a disk and then so your play and microscopic tests. You could have done one side on the VPI and the other on the Kirmuss.

When I was a kid, my grandfather would get records for free from his brother who worked at one of the record companies in Philly. Many were likely seconds or rejects but he'd give them to the kids in the family. I remember a few that were really warped, and a few we likely warped by leaving them someplace we shouldn't have. He had a huge slab of maple or walnut that was about 3" thick and flat, probably about 20x20" or so. He'd set that thing in the oven with only the pilot light on. I don't know how hot it got but it was almost too hot to touch, at least for very long. He would let the wood get completely heated, then he'd take a piece of blotter paper and lay the record on the hot wood with another piece on top with another piece of thick wood with some weight, maybe a few old dishes or a brick and he'd let it sit there overnight. It seemed to work every time. I don't remember him melting any or any of them not being playable but we were also just kids then I do have a few of them still today, an early Hank Williams Greatest hits album, and a few Elvis records, although they're well used, they are not warped. As kids, we didn't do our records any favors with how they got treated, but we also were playing them on some portable record player he found in the trash too. Chances are the needle was as old as some of the records as well.

So many thoughts… Where to begin? Ok, I think my love affair with the Kirmuss “process” might already be over. My reason? There’s no way in hell I’m paying almost $100 for another bottle of that mystery application fluid. I’ve “restored” maybe 50 LPs so far, and the bottle is already half empty. Is $1 per record unreasonable? Maybe not, but knowing that fluid costs perhaps $5 a bottle to produce, makes me feel like a sucker for even considering a reorder. I tried making my own, from 98% distilled water and 2% polyethylene glycol, but the results (visually) are nowhere near similar. I’ve even tried adding a small amount of Tergiklean and or PhotoFlow, but again, the results aren’t that similar. Also, I think all of that dry scrubbing (polishing) at the end of the “process”, invites possible scratching, new dust and for sure static. Oh, and I’ve just got the record clean, do I really want to add another coating, even if it’s very minimal, of more chemicals? So, in conclusion, I’ve recently started using a hybrid approach. Depending on how dirty the record is to start with, I may or may not use a rinse off in the sink first, before placing it in the Kirmuss for 5 minutes. Then, I’ll do several applications and ultrasonic cycles with the Kirmuss system, using my own fluid, applied with the goat’s hair brush, until I see an obvious improvement in the appearance and sheeting action of the record surface, then I’ll give it a clean and rinse on my home made RCM. I feel like I’m getting cleaner records this way, with much less static. I also plan on getting either a DeStat or the new Huminguru Orbit for final treatment before placing them in my favorite inner sleeves, the Diskeeper Ultimates.

Great video again, agree that a vacuum cleaning then the Kirmuss is best for used records. Thanks for a well done and informative shootout!

Have you thought of making a video to show how to clean shellac records?

A little late to the party, but have you used the Kirmuss machine with an Ultrasonic cleaner and not his method? AIVS makes an Ultrasonic solution I was considering trying in the Kirmuss machine instead of his multi step ritual.

Those dividers look really cool but really what they will do is occupy space for the real. 50 of those dividers are robbing space for 50 records for the collection.

By chance could you elaborate on how you would recommend using Tergikleen with the Spin Clean? Just add a couple drops to the basin once filled with distilled water? Or would you mix a solution and apply directly to the record before placing in the Spin Clean? Thanks again for all your content.

Good information! Trying to expand my horizons into areas other than music in the various "rock" categories and popular classical.

Correct me if I’m mistaken. As I understand from AIVS instructions, you should use water rinse after each step, particularly after the Number 15. Am I right?

A more objective way to test cleaning solutions is to use multiple like pressed test records from the same batch. Use one record per cleaning solution being tested. Then use the manufacturers' suggested method to use a liquid. If the liquid was made to work with a particular process, use the process (machine) and follow instructions. Never use a liquid with no ingredients listed. If disclosed, review their affectation to records using the PVC and plasticizer chemical compatibility charts. If used with machines that have pumps and the like, check their compatibility with neoprene and rubber as well. To a proper quantitative and qualitative analysis: Do a before signal analysis and groove depth measurement before the application of the solution to be tested, then do a post analysis of the same record. A signal analyzer will allow you to measure the effects of a cleaning solution with before and after readings. Most liquids that I have tested will decrease the output of the cartridge and decrease frequency response. Some severely as some cleaning solutions are designed to shine a record and leave a coating. The latter to hide the pop in new records of any fused contaminants that landed in the cooling record at the pressing plant, only to be rediscovered as we play the record, whereby the needle now is removing the coating. Needing the needle to be cleaned with a wet cleaning agent. We are fortunate to be able to measure the films left on the record using a Keyence VHX-7000 imager.

One does not need a certain brand of distilled water, any will do. One does not need any special water either, plain distilled is it. Even the maker of AIVS fluids says that if you run out of the "Pure Water" distilled is fine. The only difference between the distilled water and the "Pure Water" is the process. The "Pure Water" is a reverse osmosis process. I have not tested the Record Dr. cleaner, so I can't speak to it. The Spin Clean fluid is basically a flux coagulant. It won't do much on real sticky or hard contaminants, but will lift and suspend loose or soft contaminants from the record, That is why I recommend if one is going to get a SpinClean type thing, that one also has a rinse method so that when one goes to dry the record one doesn't smear or grind any residue back into the grooves. LAST product = All their stuff does is cover the contaminants, so you stylus rides above the groove, so you don't hear the dirt, but also lose gain and frequencies because they are masked. Last products are also bad for ones stylus and cartridge. VPI fluid = very weak, does nothing, plain distilled water is better. Tergitol = Industrial detergent and not compatible with PVC. If The Library Of Congress still uses it they are fools and don't know what they are doing. They are a government entity and if that is the case, it is just another example of why we can't have nice things. MoFi fluids = Totally safe, but not very strong in comparison. I use MoFi fluids for non-visibly dirty records or a quick clean. L Art Du Son = Perfume for your records. One of the worst products one can use on their records. It leaves behind a nasty coating and doesn't do any good for your stylus either. Phoenix = This stuff should not even be sold! It has synthetic enzymes and the universe only knows what else is in it. This stuff is real bad. It leaves behind a very nasty residue! The shelf-life is less than one year and in that time it starts to crystalize!! This stuff is one notch worse than LAST or L Art Du Son! I have not tested the other products you showed, that said though in my opinion and testing, the best is AIVS. As for the use method of AIVS fluids, your "advice" is incorrect. According to the manufacture the Super Clean, Archivist and #15 should NOT be used by themselves. They need to be used with either the Enzymatic or #15 formulas! The Super Cleaner and Archivist formulas are NOT to be used first. One must use the Enzymatic or #15 first, then follow with the Super Clean or Archivist. The problem with your suggestion of using the Super Clean first "so that the enzymatic formula spreads better and evenly on the record" is that the surfactant used in the Super Clean and Archivist fluid is hydrophobic. Hydrophobic surfactants repel water and other fluids. So by using the Super Cleaner first you are blocking or defeating the enzymatic formula from working. I have had the Enzymatic formula spread well covering the record using it first. I have also had it not cover well. The reason 99% of the time it or any other fluid doesn't cover a record well is because something else has been used on the record before that has left behind a residue or coating. It is that coating or what have you that needs to be removed and that simply won't happen if one is laying down hydrophobic surfactants or other coatings on top. Also often times a record requires more than one pass with AIVS or any fluid to get cleaner. There are also some contaminates that any of the fluids can't remove.

Love the Oasis blaring 😎

The anti- vinyl crowd would love this video...😂 just so they can say, WoW you guys are crazy! But its all part of the process. Its all part of the fun! If you want your records to sound as good as they possibly can then cleaning them is essential.

I'm curious if you have any experience with, or opinion on, the Groove Washer line of products? It seems in the last couple years they've expanded their offerings in terms of brushes and cleaning fluids. I use them but would definitely be interested in how they measure up to your favorites.

Hi, do you recommend the l’art du son over the disc doctor? What is the process for using it?

Great review

I had one of these. I honestly don't know what it did, except that the surfactant made me cough. I returned the unit to the retailer. I do noy believe this machine restores records, at least it didn't restore any of mine.

A word of caution as to cleaning solutions. Over a dozen years we have discovered some that are detrimental to the PVC of the record and the plasticizer, damaging records. Some agents sold are aggressive to rubber and neoprene causing premature failure of cleaning machines, while others have cancer causing agents. Michael Fremer has commented on some. Rule of thumb whether cleaning solutions work or not, check the ingredients list found on the Materials Safety Data Sheet. Remember where cleaning solutions do a good job on the surface but the water in the suspension at 100 to 110 microns in diameter are larger than the record groove...another topic. ...if no ingredients, avoid the use. If still interested, ask for the MSDS. With the sheet in hand, consult the PVC, plasticizer, rubber and neoprene chemical compatability charts to determine the safety of the chemical on records etc.. Many are ether and ethylene oxide based. BAD for records. Never create your own solutions based on information spread by uninformed armchair journalists on the web. Records are fragile and we need not damage them unintentionally using a solution that is not pvc or plasticizer safe.

How do you objectively measure the effectiveness of each cleaner?

Great, thanks , could you do a more detailed video on AIVS and all their different products and how you would use them ? I see you have 1 previous video on AIVS but its only one of their products

What a valuable service to us, the record cleaning community. Great segment, and thank you so much.

Before I bought my vpi cleaner I wonder if I would use it. I thought it may end up being a waste but I was so wrong. I couldn't imagine being a record collector with out it, especially if you buy alot of used records as I do!

This is an amazing cleaning fluid! However, the solution has 2 year-shelf life. How do we know how long the bottle has been sitting in the warehouse shelf before it's sent out to the consumers. There is NO production/or expiration date on the bottle!!!

what brand of shirt are you wearing?

I have the digital (DVD-A) surround sound version of The Dark Side of the Moon. It blows away the old stereo version.

I've been to quite a few hifi shows, and there's something I find fairly annoying: Typically, the tracks used to demo high end systems are recordings of UNINTERESTING music, music that I would never listen to as music. They are tracks for listening to the system, not the music.

Nice vid and great selections.

What a great KZbin best-of presentation! I must say, you floored me with Live/Dead which I haven't listened to in50 years... Think The Planets must hold a record for Spectacularly Recorded performances by the likes of Zubin Mehta and Adrian Boult. And Donald Fagens solo albums are worth repeat listens for sure. Thanks for this video. I think it is the best of its kind.

Your cleaning process is insane. Your records must sound incredible!

Four amazing sounding albums that I have heard on a high-end system in a treated room: 1) Led Zeppelin II, the RL / SS Hot Cut pressing. The first two songs on side one (Whole Lotta Love and What Is and What Should Never Be) have "to die for" sound quality. The rest of the songs, on either side, sound very good, but are a step down from the above two songs. 2) Black Sabbath's first album. With the right pressing, the first song on side 1 sounds spooky real. For example, there is a bell that is high, to the right, and off into the distance. Played on the right stereo, that illusion is as real as it gets. And you can feel the metal on the bell vibrating. 3) Madonna's The Immaculate Collection. Find the right pressings (two album set), and many of those songs will sound really good. Vogue, in particular, sounds fantastic. Much of it is due to the use of QSound processing. Normally, I object to studios tinkering with the initial capture tapes, with processing, processing, and more processing. But that QSound is something else. For some of the songs, you can still hear the not-so-stellar sound quality beneath the QSound effect. But with the QSound effect, those songs actually become more lively and enjoyable. But Vogue is in a league of its own. 4) Lipps, Inc's 12" pressing of Funkytown. It is lots of studio gimmickry. But this is a rare exception where it worked. I have digital versions of Funkytown. But they are miles behind the right pressing. I heard all of the above on a system sporting Clearaudio's Goldfinger Statement cartridge (professionally dialed in), with Aestheix's Metis pre-amp, Aesthetix IO Eclipse phono-amp, AMG turntable, Audioquest interconnects, and Vandersteen's System Nine grouping of speakers, subs, and amps -- all in a treated room. Of the above 4, the Led Zeppelin pressing was the winner -- sounding so real, that my eyes and ears were fighting over whether or not the band was in front of me. There were invisible musicians standing in front of me, clearly outlined in their own space. I never heard anything so real. And hearing such great songs made it all the more enjoyable. I have also heard an amazing Abbey Road pressing (two separate albums -- one for side one, and the other for side two). So I agree with our host having that album on his list. But you have to have the right one (the right release with the right stamper codes, and even then it is still a crap shoot -- but the odds are much better by avoiding the rest).

Strong idea. I agree with your ratings. There is another one with Topsound by Steely Dan: 2 of A Nature. And the album by Ry Cooder: Bop till you drop. Miles Davis: Bags Groove. John Coltrane/Johnny Hartman.

Thanks for the review. I too believe in combining several different products and methods during the cleaning process. "There are no 'solutions' only trade-offs." Thomas Sowell

I have read in forums that Jim at Osage Audio recommends against scrubbing. I've noticed that scrubbing seems to be part of your process with that brush, but would you say that you consider "agitating" to be different than "scrubbing?" For reference, below is an excerpt from an old post by Jim. BTW, I discovered your channel recently and really love it. What a great venue for deep diving into all methods of record cleaning, and ultimately appreciating the music. Keep it up please👍 "The function of the brush is to spread fluid. We strongly discourage scrubbing. Our extensive lab testing has proven that hard scrubbing can actually make the record harder to clean"

Nice video. But no Sheffield Labs lps? When I used to put on a good Sheffield Labs lp, it was like I just stepped up to a higher quality format. The Thelma Houston, Dave Grusin, Harry James etc. set the standard for musicians being palpably in the room with you. Half speed mastered records from original analog master tapes back then, were a mixed bag, (messing with EQ mostly), but generally superior, especially the quietness of the vinyl, and the decrease of distortion; most noticeable in the highs. Aqualung by Jethro Tull was the one everyone seemed to want, and when it went out of print, used copies were fetching $75 like crazy circa the latter1980s. The equivelent of around $200+ today. It was one of the most improved versions over the standard lp pressing, and Tull audiophiles heard about it, but the acoustic guitar strings had edge accentuation, similar to but sweeter than early digital, but did not detract somehow. The best lps sonically in my collection back then however were all direct to disc lps. Straight From The Heart by John Klemmer on Nautilus, Several M& K Real Time titles, Pavane by The L.A.4 on East Wind. Laurindo Almieda was also involved with some other outstanding direct to discs on the Concord Jazz label and Crystal Clear label. Probably the artist with the most Direct to Disc lps. Trackin 'by Lew Tabackin was one of the first 45 RPM Direct Disc lps & totally excellent as was the aforementioned Virtuoso Guitar by Laurindo Almieda. Toshiba Pro Use had some good Direct Disc titles, like Take The A Train. You mentioned Gaucho, and that one was good. If there is a well mastered vinyl version of Steely Dan's Grammy winner lp Two Against Nature, I bet it's as good or better than Gaucho. It is one of the truly great sounding cds. Just amazing. The Mofi of Aja always sounded so hi-fi, like it had its frequency response tailored to that effect. But it sure had purity and detail. The Brubeck Mulligan Mofi using the Gain system sounded just the opposite; so musical and really impressive sonically. I think that one was truly all analog. Although you never know. CBS Mastersound half spéed masered lps had some obvious digital mastering by the early 1980s, the one that stands out in memory was One On One by Bob James. Verry obviously digital. Far, far before Mofi's dipping into digital. For amazing classical sound quality try Massenet Le Cid on Klavier, or the old circa around 1960 RCA Living Stereo lp titled Venice with Solti conducting. Great video and hope there's more on this subject.

Thanks for a great video and creating those categories. Your wide range of appreciation drew me in. I love quality recordings of great performances and you just expanded my list of records to look for. Your Live/Dead recommendation was a surprise as I’ve never heard praise for recording quality of the Grateful Dead outside of their fan base. More curated selections in broad categories, please!

So, your vid sent me down the rabbit hole regarding The Planets. Can't find the '58 version on KZbin; would you say the London Symphony Orchestra 5.1 version I found there to be similar? Listening to it...fantastic music!

The problem is that there is no such thing as an "audiophile recording". I have asked countless people to explain what an "audiophile recording" is and they can't do it. They just say it is a recording popular among audiophiles or so and so mastered it or other non-sequitur statements. One likes a recording or doesn't like a recording. it is all subjective. I can say that Heavy Horses by Jethro Tull is considered an "audiophile recording" just based in sonics and how good that record sounds, but that doesn't make it an "audiophile recording" and most audiophiles hate Jethro Tull for some unknown reason. Strange. Jut because something is claimed to be "audiophile" or has a sticker on it, doesn't make it so. It also doesn't mean something that is not the subject of such a claim or doesn't have such a sticker on it is no good or what have you. It doesn't mean that something with such a claim is bad either.

It is a great idea to create those categories. As you point out, the ways in which albums are made vary a lot, so trying to name just one best-sounding album overall doesn't make great sense. I will take this approach myself from now on.

DeOxit FTW, baybee!!! I actually included an album credit to Caig Labs back in 2004 because it fixed a LOT of patchbay issues. Crunchy connection? Bust out the DeOxit! These days...yep, there's still a can of it in my studio. Good ol' D5 formulation, just like you see in most Nashville studios. I think there's even a couple of grocery stores there that stock it. Plus, where goldplate connections are used, Caig even makes a DeOxit product to clean then repel contaminants on those. I recall an old-school Nashville engineer saying that the four essential things you need for session work on Music Row (back in the 1980s) was beer, cigs, Cirocco's delivery number, and a can of DeOxit. SO true!

4k?....Just me...I'll do one deep clean cycle with the HG Nova and use the $$$ saved for more vinyl. For the old/extremely dirty…I “wash” first in my old SpinClean using a 50/50 mix of distilled water and Simple Green, spray rinse, and wipe with microfiber. Then a deep cycle on the HumminGuru Nova. A new purchase gets the Nova clean only. “It sounds like bacon smells”, Bonnie Raitt described her vintage 1965 Stratocaster.

If you had to pick, kirmuss or loricraft? I have a kirmuss and absolutely love the results. It the time it takes that is hard to swallow. Based on results, which would you recommend

Wouldn’t this work with a 5 channel amp from Emotiva 2 channels the HF, 2 channels for the woofers, 1 full signal high level for a REL subwoofer?

Sorry to have to correct you, but the RCA jacks without gold plating are probably still plated with nickel or such a stable plating and "pot metal" would typically not be used for contacts in a nice amp like the Marantz. (This is from extensive experience). Otherwise, good video!

Are you using the .05% or .50%, I can't remember which it is, Deoxit? I know that's what I am supposed to use on some of my ham radio gear as well as on the insides on electronics to remove oxidation. As an example, I've got an HF transceiver that the audio cuts out or is a little scratchy on when I adjust using the AF (volume) knob. I know there's a stronger Deoxit made and I'm not really sure what it might be used for? But I am not supposed to use that stronger Deoxit because it will cause problems. I've been told that I don't want to use it on something like my example because it can literally dissolve the insulation off of the wires and do damage in other ways on electronics. But that might be exactly what I should use on something like the RCA connectors? I'm not really sure. It should say on the Deoxit can what the percentage is of the active ingredient I guess. Thanks for any help with this question and thanks for the video. I really enjoy the videos the two of you make! Brian in Fort Worth, 🎶

I got an old JVC quadraphonic receiver recently. I have yet to spruce it up, but this video will be helpful when I do!

So precious to have such an enthusiastic wife to share ones interests with! Good and informative video.

Thank you again, very informative. Love your channel! ….Some Audioquest power cords DO have gold plating on the pins.I have the AQ Monsoon, I accidentally removed it with metal polish. Couldn’t tell any difference in Sound Quality. No harm done. But heard a positive difference in my other system with silver colored pins. Appreciate u guys 👍

I’m currently using Vinyl Storage Solutions dual pocket outer sleeves (tape on body) and 3mm inners. I was going to go with MoFi inners, but they look flimsy compared to VSS. Their clear plastic inners are great for picture discs and coloured vinyl.

What kind of microscope do you use to inspect your vinyl? If you have a video on this please let me know…thanks!