Can ASL be involved in Racism? [CC available]

Can ASL be involved in racism? It's completely raw, and I've been holding this topic too long. Please feel free to comment! I will love to see your opinion. Cheers!
"Black American Sign Language: A Cultural View of Being Black"
Victoria Monroe @monroepedagogy
Transcript:
Hi, I’m Jeremy Lee Stone. Today I will be discussing racism. It’s been a hot topic lately. Can ASL be involved in racism? I will go more in-depth with that later. First, I want to show you a vlog by Victoria Monroe about the comparison of various signs for black people. Hello, I want to clarify the difference between signing BLACK and CULTURALLY BLACK. Before I explain, I want to tell you who I am. I grew up in Mississippi and socialized with Black Deaf adults who used Black American Sign Language. Back then, schools were segregated. When the schools were desegregated, Black Deaf adults still brought their Black ASL with them. I spent my whole life growing up learning from these Black Deaf adults at school, interacting, and incorporated that into who I am. I already had Black ASL plus ASL so I knew two languages. I want to clarify the difference between signing BLACK and CULTURALLY BLACK. Can White people sign CULTURALLY BLACK when referring to a Black person? No, they can’t, because the sign CULTURALLY BLACK refers to a cultural perspective of Black people used within Black ASL. It is used by those who are proud of their Black identity. BLACK is a general sign for the race. White people use the sign BLACK but not CULTURALLY BLACK. That should clarify these two things. It’s good to know the difference between those two signs. I want to discuss this ASL book. You open a book and the color is white. There are white shoes, a white book, a white car, and a white person? No. That must be signed as WHITE. Just so you recognize the difference. Now black…black shoes, a black book, a black car, and is there a separate sign for a Black person? Nope, it stays BLACK. I wonder if the signs should be equal? A White person is signed WHITE but should it be signed white? That’s equality? Nah, just leave it as is. What about black? I don’t know how I feel. Should we change it to adopt the CULTURALLY BLACK sign since it’s more respectful, more culturally cherished, and we can understand each other? Or, just leave it alone since it’s their cherished culture to preserve only? Second, a Black person can be signed the same going forward. Third, come up with a sign for a Black person to identify them. In reference to my second point, a Black person asked me, “Do you love ASL?” “Of course!” “That’s fine, perfect. Did you know that ASL is racist?” “How so?” “Fine, how do you sign ‘White person’?” “WHITE.” “How do you sign beautiful?” “BEAUTIFUL.” “Ok, moving on. How do you sign Black person?” “BLACK.” “How do you sign ugly?” “UGLY.” I realized the handshapes are the same. WHITE. BEAUTIFUL. BLACK. UGLY. Seems the same. Back up…a Black person…what do you think?

[@Itscrownvick]

POWERFUL!!!!!! Im a 4th semester ASL student and i found my self getting mixed up with a lot of signs. I remember subconsciously thinking about the word ugly and black being similar. I felt some type of way. I think its important for BASL to correct this and change it for every one. My fingerspelling teacher would tell us to do different signs for japanese and indian people bc it is culturally insensitive. AND Not for us! I think this is important and i love the way you broke this down for everyone to see !!! Black people are always being compared and defined by white people and its time we define ourselves. Show people what and who we are from our own mouth instead of from others. sorry for the rant or getting off topic but this drives home for me. im so glad i discovered your channel.

[@marykateashley1821]

You've made some great points!

[@missartis9002]

Yes 2nd semester student here & I thought it was just me - being culturally sensitive.... Your right, it must be changed!!💯💯

[@a.secrest1169]

There's still definitely a lot of problematic signs in ASL that I never even really thought about until recently, especially regarding cultural titles such as for Asian, Indian, German, etc. Still plenty of work to do.

[@yourimaginaryfriendC]

Would a good workaround for these types of signs be to fingerspell? (for context, I'm still a new ASL student)

[@derineka]

I remember in my 6th grade ASL class we learned the sign for "black" as the index finger is drawn over the forehead and "ugly" as the index finger curves as it is drawn over the forehead. I remember thinking that it was odd how similar the two signs were. It's been in the trenches of my mind for about three years now. Thanks for the video!

[@j_a_rouen3599]

Your location for the "ugly" sign is wrong, but I think people look for "racism" where it does not exist. The sign for "red" uses the index finger as well. Is that racist? 🤔

[@jonathanogebe7269]

@@j_a_rouen3599 This sounds like something a white person would say.

[@rsign37]

when the finger is curved and swiped under the nose means ugly and when curved and swiped across the forehead it means summer.

[@benmart28]

@@rsign37 correct! If anything I should be the one upset, when telling people I'm a mechanic and they'll think I chase turds, im no damn plumber... anymore, was a time ago but that's besides the point... I truly just think people like to bitch about everything, and if we're going here then I'd like to make it clear my nouns and adjectives are he, him and, awesome... if you call me anything different... thats hate crime

[@user-el6my6vi7p]

The sign for ugly is under the nose

[@nelelale]

I am an comorian (african) living in France. I hear but out of curiosity and because I liked sign language a lot, I started to learn LSF. Unfortunately I stopped because certain signs made me uncomfortable as an Afro, I found them very disrespectful. I would like to continue learning LSF but it annoys me too much, I'm happy that in the USA there is BASL. Happy for you :)

[@clown2657]

What signs DIDNT you like?

[@m.michellel.newbold9036]

What are the signs that offend you and why??

[@winros]

I would like to know too I am CODA!

[@kyd6904]

Wow!! I wish there was more attention brought to that! I would've never guessed.

[@kawaiiteacher1393]

Oh wow! I came across this video looking for the sign for "Black person". I am Homeschooling my children in ASL. Thank you for spotlighting this travesty. I will ensure that I teach my children the sign for "culturally Black" when we cover signing for races and cultures.

[@shrimp562]

Um... I don't think you got the point of this video... They are saying to NOT do that

[@Creative4ASL]

@@shrimp562 They say, "NOT do that" for WHITE people. Black people can use the culturally black sign. See minute 1:01.

[@missartis9002]

If ur white, you shouldn't do it! It's disrespectful - 💯

[@corayoesting8705]

Very interesting. My ASL professor, who is Deaf, taught us to use different signs for black as in the color vs black as in the race. For the color the finger touches the forehead like summer. For the race, it doesn't touch, as seen in the video. I have seen some people suggest that using the "splashing" motion, as used in WHITE PERSON, in reference to black people would be insensitive as it may seem to reference black face.

[@bonniej525]

I appreciate the perspective. I always thought of the movement from white upward was representing the face. I never connected it with the sign "beautiful". I thought it strange that the signs for other skin colors didn't include the gesture toward the face. In my opinion, maybe the movement toward the face (perceived by many if not most as connected with "beautiful") should be added for all. I love the glorious and beautiful rainbow of colors of the human race!

[@lameborghini6980]

I'm very grateful to have ran across this video, thank you for taking the time to make such an educational resource!

[@datshowle4796]

Definitely mindblown! Thanks for sharing!

[@claudiaypaz]

Nicely analyzed and explained. Thank you!!!

[@briarquinn-marsh7524]

Thank you for sharing! I am a senior at NTID and will be sharing this video with my practicum class.

[@deliamak]

Woah! That didn't cross my mind at all. Now I'm wondering if we use the opposite of a white person for a black person, it's like a sign of beautiful. Would a sign of beautiful be acceptable as a sign for a black person?

[@EvanLonda]

Wow! ASL student here. I was not ready. Very insightful thanks. Love your videos

[@JenniferKGraf]

I'm hearing but that was such an interesting video! especially at the end with the similar signs😮

[@Julie0Grundy]

Persuasive! I wonder what similar matches occur in other sign languages, such as Auslan or BSL in the UK. I bet any place with a history of slavery and/or colonialism will have examples since spoken English languages all do. I hope folks can figure out alternative phrases which are more inclusive. Thanks for sharing!

[@damienrealestate]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing

[@rosesonmars6]

thank you for sharing! :)

[@daniellebrunning8934]

Hi where’d you get your shirt? I’d love to rep one too!

[@lynk8951]

When the close captions said "cherished culture to preserve only"made me smile. I'm adopted and was disconnected from all the cultures I should've been apart of, both with family wise and adoptive family wise. I've now been looking into all the ones I can now (from my birth side, all of the adoptive side has stayed secretive about it around me) and I have learned the importance of cherishing one's culture. So I agree that one shouldn't be used outside the black community. I believe a new one should be made, but also chosen by the black community. Or maybe change the sign for ugly even. (I personally can think of a few😂). To the question of if this is meant to be racist? And I don't know. I'm going to research this to see if there's an answer. If it's not, they're *very interesting* coincidence.. Edit: definitely read alot of these comment's. They hold alot of information that i think would be useful 😊❤

[@ginakiep7528]

This video is a true eye opener. I appreciate the definition and clarification. I do believe that the sign for a black person should reflect HUMANity. The sign for a white person is used by all signers. The sign for black person (handshape B) is used exclusively by black people. I want to use an appropriate sign other than the traditional sign for black to show respect. What should that sign be?

[@debbylovesdogs9763]

What is the correct sign please for an Afro American person . I want to be sure to use the correct and respectful sign as I am confused. THANK YOU

[@Sentientmatter8]

I think the point is there may not currently be one. The sign regularly used in ASL is the one you should use for now but be aware that it has built in racism. It seems like some people are thinking about potential other replacements. While the BASL sign is a potential replacement, a lot of Black deaf Americans consider it special, personal, not for extra cultural use, so unless general opinion shifts, don't use it if you are white. Making up a new word is not easy - you can make up a word but since language is organic, it may or may not catch on.

[@joshsherk1402]

Jeremy, out of curiosity, what has the BASL community thought of currently about that issue? Any updates on the preferences?

[@snakeeyesvenomous9461]

I’m white but may be I’m colour blind as I think I’m Green. What I see in Black is one of beautiful colours, not ugly. Personally can be ugly if you want to be ugly, not colours.

[@My-Channel_forever]

He is referring to the similarity in the signs.

[@aimsforasl3534]

Thank you for teaching this and bringing it to our attention. I had thought some sings were Iconic, in that they were created or agreed upon by the Deaf because the signs look like the concept to some extent. Otherwise signs were Abstract, in that the sign and the concept look nothing alike but were agreed upon. With that in mind the sign for "black" as a color and "ugly" may not be related as much as "summer" and "ugly". The same coincidence as "white people" and the sign for "beautiful". Are they not abstract?

[@caspergotlost]

I think it isn't super important where the sign came from so much as how similar the signs ended up being and how brains tie things like that together subconsciously

[@sab4895]

I think its overlooked at

[@katiegonzalez3925]

Wow! Eye opener...

[@Mechosen-2002]

#EWO (Eyes Wide Open)... Something to make you say/sign, "Hmm"!

[@broknsighlence8383]

It is interesting how he puts beautiful with white when I thought the sign for white was at the chest; and tried to compare the similar motion of black with ugly. Summer is closer with the sign black, they didn't say anything about that 🤔.

[@tstarrodriguez4333]

I just watch of this video. I learn of this . Thank you for share . I agree with you ( ASL top black and center sign ugly ) . Try figure out change sign for black . Sign language black person ( show respect ) . What do you think ? . I have my best friend self black person .

[@saffronyoutubeshorts]

WOOOOW THIS WOOOOOW :))))))

[@tanikquamoore4802]

I am learning ASL and I thought the exact same thing...why is the sign for ugly similar to the sign for black?!

[@1darkironman1]

I'm deaf, he didn't even offer an alterative sign, however there are obvious racism signs like the N-word in ASL or Asian label. I do use 'African-American' ASL sign as the alterative sign. i was puzzled to why he tried to force 'black' and 'ugly' as the same thing. it is not the same thing, if I follow the same logic then 'black' is the same as 'summer' 'honey' 'because' 'for'. some sign are exactly the same or very similar but different depending on the context, like 'summer' and 'because', 'Egyptian' and 'puzzled', 'hot' could be sexy hot, weather hot, trending hot and other meanings. “content is king” - bill gates

[@buffaleen]

"Context is King" but yes, your point.

[@shrimp562]

I agree. Connecting the second part of the sign for white person with "beautiful" is a super tenuous dishonest feeling connection. The only they have in common is location. I would need to see some proof that the sign we use for a white person originally was the two separate signs white+beautiful. Otherwise it's just people making shit up. Comparing black and ugly is again, super tenuous. Of the MOPS the only thing that is the same is the orientation (palm down). If this really was the case the Russians might want to have a word with asl

[@dannyyspencerr]

i think sometimes with discrimination the offenses can be so covert that one has to question why things are the way they are. even if they're slight, there may possibly be a problem there. sometimes the roots of words are important, visual language or spoken. it's just a coincidence? you're sure of that? context is extremely important yes. and i'm not even fluent in sign language and i feel like i should say that. i think discrimination transcends language though.

[@winros]

Will the new way to say black for a person is take the letter b and swoop it right across your forehead!

[@williambrown7908]

Interesting debate about that part and I use white sign language as like car or book but not the different sign of white sign language since I am mixed American native Indians and white but honestly embarrassed to be part of white cuz what white people done to American native Indians in history same embarrassed cuz of how white people treat black people and other races

[@fenishes]

If the origin of the signs were racist then I agree. However if people are subjectively noticing that certain signs appear similar (black, ugly) then that's not enough reason to change a language. I'm not Deaf but I see a little too much wokeism in some deaf culture as in hearing culture. Anyone want to help me understand more?

[@nathanrhodes4131]

There are lots of different signs in BASL, I imagine, just as Mexico and Argentina have different words in Spanish. Will black signers and white signers for that matter look at me funny or be offended if I use BASL as a hearing white signer? If I made black signer friends, it would be hard not to imitate them, especially in a learning process, and it would be weird for anyone to teach someone something different because of their skin color (obviously). It kind of disheartens me a bit that I am not allowed to use the sign for culturally black, given that white (color) and white (people) have two different signs. It seems only natural that black color vs people should also have two signs. What if you have a white deaf person who grows up surrounded by black people? Would they exepct him not to sign the way black people do or would he be considered culturally black and therefore it would be ok? It seems a bit arbitrary to be honest...i understand the parallels with the n-word but obviously that was originally meant to denigrate black people whereas the sign was created by black people to fix a problem in the language.

[@user-tx8fr1jb2n]

Firstly I would just like to say your line of questioning is extremely racist. 1) why are you assuming people who sign BASL cannot sign ASL as well? They often do. It’s another form of code switching or for many their first language/only language. 2) what is this assumption that you need to mimic people in order to communicate with them? I’m sure you don’t throw on a southern accent each time you talk to someone from Texas. 3) as Black people, we have a history of being systemically discriminated against and not fully recognized with agency or autonomy over our own culture and that includes language. Many indigenous groups gatekeep their tribal languages, why must you feel the need to have access to all things Black? You clearly recognize there must be some sovereignty for Black people otherwise you would not have compared us to Mexico or Argentina. 4) the parallels between the n word need not be drawn. In English, there are certain connotations that follow when someone says “Black”depending on the person and not always on the color of their skin and those situations depend on context. The only similarity here is the ingroup being allowed to say it only. 5) you’re not asking these questions in good faith.

[@artofrandydunham]

I rather to sign black friend. i have good friends who are black.

[@nandolovegay619]

Make sense.

[@StudioDaVeed]

Things are progressing! Here, in November 2022 an accomplished signer has been 'fired' from signing ASL for the Broadway Play 'The Lion King' because he's white....

[@winros]

Can you elaborate a bit more please ✌🏼🤟

[@StudioDaVeed]

@@winros All the cast members are Black; therefore it makes 'sense' that the ASL was Black. Right?

[@winros]

@@StudioDaVeed I thought in America it was ASL. I didn't know that there was Black ASL ....

[@winros]

@@StudioDaVeed no I understand I get it! It's so complicated it's hard for me to articulate it has nothing to do with you nor your channel my apologies! 🤟

[@StudioDaVeed]

@@winros I did not know there was black ASL until I saw this video myself

[@samgold9151]

Can you work on? Growing Black Individuals in Grants Pass Oregon USA on July 2, 2028 and Beyond Can you work on? Growing Hispanic Individuals in Grants Pass Oregon USA on August 8, 2030 and Beyond Can you work on? Growing Black Individuals in Okinawa City Japan on August 6, 2032 and Beyond Can you work on? Growing Hispanic Individuals in Okinawa City Japan on October 13, 2034 and Beyond

[@sharonarnold7280]

Old ASL signs ARE racist... what about the signs for Japan, China, Korea pulling near the corner of the eye? Racism doesn't occur with only Black/White. ALSO... the handshape for BLACK and UGLY aren't the same, although the movement is the same, but in a different location.

[@winros]

I cannot even believe you mention that because, I have an older ASL book when I look through it so racist!! ✌🏼✌🏼

[@irarothenberg9747]

I can agree using appropriate handshapes to sign BLACK. the rest of the content doesn’t seem to indicate some wisdom. the signs, WHITE-PERSON, BLACK (with index finger), UGLY all are coincidential and largely depend on context to gain arbitrary meanings. In some ways, this feels like a non-issue. I can explain more in ASL if upon request.

[@tinamackay7415]

That rubbed me the wrong way. Is this fact or made up to cause confrontation between races? If the origin of those signs are not what you say, don't create an issue. If the origins are what you say....we have a real issue. Also, I would like to sign Black with respect and not with a connection to "ugly." There should be love and pride in that sign and I don't appreciate the potential stain placed on it. I hope no one was offended by this video.

[@acadiestudio]

Does not make any sense and not true on ASL for Black ==> Ugly / White ==> Beautiful. They did not plan that way, no one planned that way. You probby just created it. All skin tones (darkest to palest) are beautiful.

[@jianne9440]

yeah it’s racist imo

[@rosienisnisan3121]

.. It's fun learning ASL until something like this happens. The SL for ugly is a lot more identical to summer than black. SL for black "color" is one movement of your finger, and for BLACK PERSON its TᗯO ՏIᘜᑎՏ because you have to sign for the word "person," there! The last time I checked, ugly has three signs. 🥴