Can bread be healthy? With Vanessa Kimbell and Tim Spector

[@jameslogan4846]

Good shows. My wife and I are in our mid 90s and we follow the rules-good sleep, good diet, and we make sure we move and exercise. We have no stress and we take care of our large property, finances, house keeping, etc. Our level of exercise and stamina are much lower than they were but we still move and work out every day. When we visit the doctor for scheduled visits our numbers have been good. We are completely independent. We feel blessed. Doug

[@paulachristie7807]

Started making yeast bread during COVID lockdown. I found the process easier than I expected. I branched out and followed a KZbin video on how to begin a sourdough starter, that too was easier than I expected. I'm now on a schedule baking sourdough, in fact just baked two loaves of sourdough today. Vanessa is right, it is dead easy to do it once you're on a schedule and you have a strong sourdough starter. I haven't done a cost comparison but I believe homemade bread isn't just better for you, better tasting, but also less expensive.

[@BasilLange]

Yeah I buy 20 kg of flour. For about 15 dollars straight at the mill. Plus some wholegrain. Bake about 400 gram breads 3 a week. That about 3.5-4 months of bread for us for 15 dollars. 30 cents of flour per bread let's say 35 with the bakingcost, water, dishes and salt. Buying that much bread would cost us 185 dollars. For low quality bread from the supermarket. Or 325 dollar if buying bakery breads. So around a 90 percent discount money wise. We divide the dough prep and baking time so in total we spent very little active handling time with the bread. Plus it freezes well.

[@paulachristie7807]

@BasilLange thanks for the detailed cost breakdown. I've never bothered because I'm going to keep baking my own bread regardless. Good to know how much less expensive it is than buying grocery bread. I am now experimenting with whole wheat sourdough sandwich rolls. First couple were too dense and heavy. Last batch I added 1/4 teaspoon (a tiny amount) of yeast and they were perfect. Keep baking and sharing.

[@anonymousanonymous7304]

Is yeast in bread bad for us if we are prone to yeast infections?

[@bladdnun3016]

@@anonymousanonymous7304 Nah. But white flour is.

[@jjudijo]

I have purchased bread at the grocery less than 10 times in the last 10 years. It is crazy easy to make my own.

[@ruedigerpreiss9307]

We bought a German household grain mill (which looks really beautiful in the kitchen) to make our own sourdough wholemeal rye bread from grain. We buy in 25kg bags from local organic farms or get delivered once a year. It took a couple of attempts to get it right be since then has become part of household chores / routine which barely takes more time than go to the shop and buy it.

[@joefarrow1599]

I'm glad that Tim stepped into clarify for Vanessa about the sourdough, she was not easy to understand

[@catobie1948]

I go to a local bread bakery. The bread would knock you out if i hit you with it. The owner is from Germany. Multi-grain, whole rye, different types of sourdough including sprouted. It is amazing.

[@chriscaine7689]

lucky you

[@darlingmkxo]

I recently found a German market that specializes in bread.The shop worker told me all the breads are made by German bakers the traditional way with 70% Rye and 30% whole wheat blend in their dark rye bread. I had no idea what she was talking about but 70% rye sounds good to me lol and yes it's very delicious!

[@karinhaverson248]

I came to this country in 1968 and really missed my lovely German bread. So I have made my own sourdough rye bread occasionally mixed with other grains for years. It literally takes me about 5 minutes every three days or so. I am now 81 years old and fit as a fiddle. No arthritis, no other health issues and mentally fine. I obviously had no idea how important my choice was, I simply didn't like the mushy white supermarket bread.

[@SeraphinaRaven]

Started making sourdough during lockdown but stopped afterwards. Now feeling really inspired to start again and will look for Vanessa's book. Thanks Zoe team yet again. You do such great work 👍

[@suzytalib1612]

Hi Sharon.. what recipe did you have for the sourdough bread? Please

[@pip5461]

If you find out, please let us know...@@suzytalib1612

[@n1ananda]

I think the biggest point which was missed here is how and where to get good flour for making bread. As noted without choosing right flour you are essentially eating junk.

[@suzannerando7402]

Yes i agree

[@eugeniebreida1583]

You grind your own, or buy known freshly ground.

[@n1ananda]

@@eugeniebreida1583 In the western world its not easy to find a place to grind or get whole ungrinded wheat. Would be open if you know of any good options

[@TheNewOceanic]

@@n1ananda Just order it online.

[@rhiannonfox9619]

Hi I live in East Yorkshire and can recommend an organic bakery that grows and mills organic flours. They sell online, Side Oven Bakery. Happy healthy baking.

[@liliancalo3518]

I once heard from a nutrition professor that you may decide for a loaf of bread if you hit your head with it it should “hurt” and not feel soft as if a pillow hit would feel. I found that a pretty good advice, together with - of course - carefully reading the ingredients list on the label. Thank you ZOE to those very high level and interesting subjects and for bringing specialized scholars to talk to us!

[@Katalila]

When I lived in the Netherlands they had bread that looked very good (like German bread, which was what I wanted) but when you touched it it was actually soft like white bread. I felt so betrayed.

[@foxyone3]

I once worked in a bakery in NYC, we made 80 loaves of white bread a minute, 24/7. I have never eaten white bread again.

[@Deffine]

Lol, why?

[@GDurango11]

That reminds me of myself when I do mono diets, I did the cheese one when I lost my mother and after a month I couldn't stand just looking at cheese xD

[@lenalootens5625]

Vanessa is a great speaker. I loved listening to HER so much!

[@pilatesrebalance]

With all due respect, most of us ordinary folk work 2 jobs, have families to take care of and perhaps elderly parents, and really really dont have time to bake our own bread or have relationships with bread. Be good to have a few practical tips on what we might choose in a supermarket, which is how most of us get our food. Thanks

[@dannyhilton857153]

The only practical thing I heard was to look for a bread with a ratio of 4/5:1 carbohydrate:fibre

[@pontusschroder8361]

”most of us ordinary fol work 2 jobs”, What???!!! what country do you live in where most people need to have 2 jobs?

[@CaseyKCRichards]

Here in the USA many work two jobs.

[@pontusschroder8361]

@@CaseyKCRichards How come? hard to understand why they cant survive having only one job.

[@CaseyKCRichards]

@@pontusschroder8361 Because we they don’t want to just survive- we live in a materialistic rich country . Me, i have one job and I’m not materialistic. I like my spare time

[@IvyRoad]

These podcasts are terrific! Thank you for entertaining and informing me simultaneously! Johnathan is a most engaging and intelligent Everyman, and the balance between the energy and personalities of the guests is always masterfully handled. And, of course, who doesn’t love Tim. Altogether, a beautifully produced and very useful podcast every single time! Could you please talk about “sprouted grains” next time you discuss bread. Thanks!

[@bcvahsfam]

I've been doing sourdough for about four years now and milling wheat berries. If I can do it, others can too. It isn't that hard once you find your routine. It can sound complicated, but isn't once you learn how. It is also more forgiving than what I thought at first. Some people are perfectionists or a bit snobby about it-- but you can make really good bread without it being complicated. Give it a try. Vanessa is making me feel good about my choices. Great video! Thank you! One more thought-- modern flour has been developed to have more gluten. I think whole grain bread doesn't have as much. You can also look into ancient grains like einkorn. I haven't done that yet.

[@christopherellis2663]

Wheat is a grain, not a berry. You foolish yuppie

[@salmontoya7065]

Thank u great tips !

[@wendym2544]

Sounds good Cari. If you have any good and easy recipes, I'd love them if you're able.

[@leelajapheth4051]

Please share how you make your sour dough

[@mariarayson5630]

😊c

[@wgg6188]

I have made all of my bread for a couple decades. Bread maker and by hand. So happy you didn’t tell us not to eat bread. Delighted to eat the bad bread the way Vanessa suggested. Made my own recipe that includes whole cooked grains along with the flour. I give a loaf away when we go to dinner at friends’ houses. Thank you for this discussion…thoroughly enjoyed the questions and responses.

[@wildhorses6817]

Will you please share your Recipe ? Thank you.

[@leagueaddict8357]

Don't eat bread daily at least there are a lot of carbs in bread, and carbs aren't very healthy.

[@stephanietaraderby8376]

Carbs are healthy. It depends on the type of carbs. Didn't you watch the video? ​@@leagueaddict8357

[@joannasheldon2146]

Minute 3: Vanessa, bless her for she does do good work in the field of bread making, says there should be live bacteria in sourdough bread “if it’s made correctly.” Which is nonsense. The good bacteria have done their magic on the flour while the bread was rising. They die long before the bread reaches its top temperature in the oven.

[@tashasgran]

i’m so interested in this. Believe all you say and feel much better trying to follow your advice. At 80 years i wish i had heard this a long time ago. Trying to get my children to follow it but it’s hard work. Thank you all.

[@thomasrobinson4401]

I stopped eating bread two years ago. I'll probably never eat it again. The baking, of commercially available bread, is for profit, not nutrition.

[@oldplucker1]

Where is the long term research showing that bread with gluten is healthy. Long term means 30-40 years or more. My research pointed to bread with gluten being bad for everyone. ZOE needs to do a very long lifetime study then tell us the results in 30 to 70 years time!!

[@mockturtle1402]

I also gave up bread (grains) 2 1/2 years ago. Nothing in this video convinces me that eating whole grain, sour dough bread is better for me than not eating it.

[@thomasrobinson4401]

@@mockturtle1402 Yep, and the lady who is advocating, "Whole grain sourdough". Doesn't look a picture of health to me!

[@Kyarrix]

@@thomasrobinson4401 That's unnecessarily judgmental and potentially sexist also. Are you evaluating the men's appearance when you decide whether to take their advice or not? This is the kind of comment that is so irksome because it's smug and ugly. You can agree with the original comment, without taking a pot shot at some woman's appearance. Why would you ever think of doing that? Why would that even occur to you? It doesn't with regard to the men, check yourself please. Where does the impulse come from?

[@thomasrobinson4401]

@@Kyarrix I do apologise. But that's the impression I took from what I was watching. I may be wrong, I'm not a doctor. How is referring to a female, as lady, sexist? The gentlemen look healthier to me. They might not be. Just my opinion.

[@ZsuzsaKarolySmith]

I gave up bread a while ago, but after watching this, perhaps I don’t need to - you made me realise that not all bread were created equal and I do love a bit of sourdough!

[@brianrowe236]

I've must pick up on something that Tim Spector said. 80% of the British people have a sandwich for their lunch and that only happened since the 1980s. When I first started work in the mid 60s, 80%, probably more, of the people had sandwiches for lunch As the years went by, eating habits changed, and by the time I retired 17 years ago, hardly anybody brought in sandwiches. Co-incidently, I spent most of my working life working as an engineer in a large bakery and over that perion of time, the demand for bread dropped massively. There were 3 large bakeries in the city where I worked and they have all now closed. We were always told that the decline in bread sales was because of changing eating habits where people had a much wider choice than a sandwich.

[@lindaripp5902]

Maybe saying sandwich was code word for fast food burgers and stuff like that people eat a lot more of that kind of thing now than they did before the 80s

[@fayepeden1059]

Agree. Spector is a superb businessman, good at getting funding and Brilliant at Marketing. But his science is rubbish. Unreliable. For example, all his " fibre, eat 30 plants etc" ignores how detrimental that is for anyone with autoimmune conditions or those with gut issues. All his talk of the gut bio and he has no understanding how damaging fibre can be for many people. He should look at some gastro enterology research for a start - even FODMAPS which is scientifically identified. There is something quite naive about him, he gets excited and makes out he has discovered stuff that is simply new to him but has been known for years. He is so flippant and superficial and would have said the 1980s because that's when he stepped out into the adult world - not based on any historical accuracy.

[@drpamelamozingo4079]

I’m in the middle of this video, and I haven’t read the comments yet, but my first thought about store-bought bread is that many have dough-conditioners in them. Not to mention glyphosate in the wheat. Maybe it’s these agents , rather than gluten that accounts for the rise in sensitivity. I want to learn how to make my own sourdough, I’m inspired 😃

[@drpamelamozingo4079]

I’m going to get your book, Vanessa! x

[@VanessaKimbell]

There are many reasons. The process is a main one, and the change in our diets, resulting in less protective mucus in the gut and the lower levels of microbes and less diversity along with the fast process, low fibre bread and starving the microbes of fibre is the main issue however there is evidence of the emulsifiers and herbicides being negative too... but the big changes that drive most issues is the afore. mentioned.

[@redhen689]

I make my own sourdough pizza. I feed my sourdough with a product called “dark rye flour” which is described as flour that’s made from what is left when making white rye flour. 100 g of this flour has 45 g carb, 31 g fiber, 3g sugars. It’s extremely inexpensive. When I make the pizza dough, I add whole wheat flour, a pinch of salt, and a drizzle of oil. I buy this “dark the flour” at a specialty shop run by some conservative Mennonites, here in Pennsylvania.

[@dee2251]

Dark Rye flour is fairly easy to get hold of over here on the UK. Some of the larger supermarkets sell it and spelt. We can also buy them online direct from the Millers.

[@judy5936]

I’m in NJ. I will check out Amish Markets or take a ride to Lancaster. Thanks for the info. 🍞

[@redhen689]

@@judy5936 The place I go is called EchoHill. It’s near Kutztown/Fleetwood.

[@anmolagrawal5358]

I am from India and our staple wheat based bread is called `Roti`. It is made of whole wheat flour (chakki atta) and a pinch of salt ; that's it. The dough is kneaded with water, then flattened to thin round discs and cooked directly on stovetop.

[@kengaskins5083]

Good stuff! Will try it. I remember living in Turkey near a city of Diyarbakir, and they made this delicious flat bread right there in the street stalls. Eat it with butter & honey or without anything.... delicious!

[@thalesnemo2841]

No human GI track can handle ANY GRAIN PRODUCT -aka FAKE FOODS ! No wheat ,No corn , NO oats , No rice ETC ETC

[@Tracertme]

Chickpea is so much healthier 💯✅😋👍

[@iefarrington5473]

Thanks to everyone. 💟🥀🥀🥀🥀

[@iefarrington5473]

@@Tracertme What about Pumpernickel bread?Thanks. Valérie ❤️❤️

[@Mescalinaization]

This is so interesting, and I have been buying an Organic Spelt + Rye Sourdough for over a year and enjoy this solid dense loaf so much more and my stomach does not get bloated with it :-)

[@ThomasRonnberg]

Most bread in history was extremely healthy, as the process of making the bread was much better for ensuring a high quality end product. Like grounding the wheat into flour right before kneeding it into a dough. Wheat oxidizes very quickly. Old school methods also ensured that all the glutein in teh bread was used to raise and grow the dough. Bread is extremely healthy when made properly. Again, the culprit is not the food item but the processing method.

[@bonsummers2657]

Soak, sprout, grind, ferment, bake/cook.

[@patmsweeney]

Started well but quickly lost focus on the realities facing most people when shopping on a budget. The advice given will resonate well with those already into “good” bread but won’t help people who can’t afford to pay 3 or 4 times more than supermarket prices to an artisan baker. Some comment on the benefits of home baked non sourdough bread would also have been helpful.

[@oldschool8292]

I agree.

[@L4LTVuk]

My reply won’t be popular - just eat less of it. I know that access is also an issue and transport and if you have a big growing family - yes - yes - and yes those are all valid arguments but a KZbin channel on nutrition ain’t going to solve that no matter how you cut it. I would suggest a change of government might help - a little bit...until then...

[@shardlake]

I have a bread maker, with a timer, making your own is not as hard or time consuming, especially if you get a machine, although hand made is even better and is cheaper than the cheapest loaf.

[@shardlake]

Home baked non sourdough loaf, cost me 60p for a medium (750g) with decent flour/yeast/olive oil and salt. I follow the recipes from kzbin.info

[@seanmac5093]

Can you afford to eat crappy bread? Don’t care how poor you are, there is no reason to eat crap.

[@wojtek1582]

37:00 Whole grain + bacteria + time = bread. That's absolutely great summary of bread discussion :). Great episode!

[@itaz6276]

So basically bread is bad unless you bake your own

[@richardnorris7948]

I wouldn’t say that. If you’re making your own bread out of white flour, that’s not quite healthy. it’s more important what goes into it than the process with which it’s made

[@Koxocw]

This channel deserves billions of views, having this information in the format of a video is so informative and easy to understand. Subscribed!

[@afifahhamilton8843]

I disagree totally. I see this channel as a clever and wicked part of the misinformation world we are surrounded by . It is dangerous. A wolf in sheep's clothing (which is precisely what Fabian Socialists are, and be in no doubt, these are Fabian Socialists). The original emblem, or shield, of the Fabians was an actual wolf in sheep's clothing. Wheat, is entirely bad for humans. All humans react to it, to some degree or other, and it always displaces what could be really nourishing foods, from their place in the diet. All the filling and none of the bread would be just fine! Pie contents and no pastry = perfect! The wheat was always a con.

[@lauram5943]

My father was diagnosed as a coeliac after a biopsy and 2 years of terrible symptoms. I take after him and we have a lot of the same symptoms/autoimmune conditions etc Since I was a teenager I had bloating and dark circles under my eyes and rhinitis. Didn't know why til recent years. I started gluten free because if I eat anything with gluten I bloat and get these symptoms within 1 to 4 hours. I can tell if something has gluten in it just by my dark circles, even if I didn't think I'd eaten gluten. I don't have coeliac disease (yet). I have other allergies but they don't give me these specific symptoms. If it's not gluten sensitivity then what is it guys?

[@nicolahorsburgh7061]

Stirling, Scotland UK. I love your classes, thank you!

[@philiphodgesnz]

Thanks Vanessa, Tim and Jonathan - really well paced video with little time wasted - great work everyone!

[@bradzimmerman3171]

Looks like Venessa is struggling with weight her self maybe she should stop stuffing bread

[@jimcouch2348]

Love the format. Great conversations. Love the intro fast fire questions and the end of interview wrap up. Many podcast interviewers could learn a lot from watching these.

[@Hollowmoon007]

Hmm. I appreciated this airing very much. I would like to have this topic reviewed with cardiologist Dr Steven Gundry on to participate in the discussion about how the gluten lectin does over-activate the immune system and make the gut lining vulnerable to leaky gut and a host of issues. Please!

[@jgreen9361]

If you fancy sourdough but want less faff, and a lower energy cost for baking I recommend a pre ferment method. It produces a better, less dense texture than more basic methods and more flavour without having to maintain a starter. Top tip. Use 50% organic white bread flour with 50% of any good quality whole meal, malted or multigrain. 50% organic white has more flavour, less glyphosate contamination and is only a few pence more per loaf than non organic white. The preferment method I use, starts off with 25% of the flour (for one big loaf, I use 450g of flour in total), generous pinch of salt, half a yeast packet and water, keep it very wet, stir it, it should pull away from the side of the jug in strings. Leave this preferment, covered, to more than double in size. Then use the rest of the dried yeast packet, pinch of salt, 75% of the flour plus the preferment, to make a wettish dough. Leave to rise again. Line a baking tin with parchment paper, transfer to the tin, a little drizzle of olive oil on top, rubbed onto the top. Leave to rise again. Bake at 185C in a fan oven with 2 other loaves for 45 minutes. Leave to cool. Slice 2 of them, and bag for the freezer, keep one out, to eat fresh. There you have it, 3 wonderful loaves. The whole process takes a morning, but you can do other jobs in between.

[@d-rex8223]

Fascinating video and I've just discovered we have a local baker specialising in slow-fermented sourdough breads so I'm going to try that out.

[@joinZOE]

So glad you enjoyed it, that baker sounds fantastic!

[@nickymcauley3589]

I don't experience bloating when I eat bread, even sourdough, but I do get rashes. Nasty weepy ones. Don't think I have IBS

[@almor2445]

I have never seen a single item of bread products in the UK that doesn't include a series of emulsifiers and industrial vegetable oils.

[@leialee6820]

A very interesting talk but I would have liked to hear more about brown wholemeal bread itself buying from a supermarket. I am never going to be making my own bread due to personal reasons. I buy a Multiseed wholemeal bread with 14% seeds which has a good ratio of Carbohydrate to Fibre per slice and good amount of Protein. I would have liked to hear about the benefits of eating Linseed. bread as well. I think most of us here know that white refined bread is not so healthy. Thank you.

[@townsendv58]

Quite agree

[@gillmae5223]

I'm guessing you shop at sainsburys. I but their 14% seeded wholemeal bread and it's lovely. 🙂

[@leialee6820]

@@gillmae5223 Clever you for working that one out! Lol. Yes it is good and has the right requirement of carbohydrate to fibre they were talking about & a high amount of protein but I am not so impressed with their Extra Thick Soft White Toastie sliced bread that tastes nice & was a treat instead of turning to cakes & biscuits now that I have just discovered it contains Niacin. Have you seen my other comment about that. I won't be buying it anymore now. I shall be more healthy to! 😊

[@Hickalum]

Ask yourself if grains, in any shape or form, is something apes eat.

[@leialee6820]

@@Hickalum I am sure they will if offered..Monkeys will eat practically anything and steal food from the tourists and garbage containers. Eat food that is left on plates etc.

[@interacdiv]

Look out for "sourdough" which also has yeast in the ingredients list - they add some starter but use the yeast to do the raising rather than waiting for a long fermentation so it's really not the sourdough process.

[@joinZOE]

Great tip! Thanks

[@ekcs3941]

you can make long fermented sourdough with added yeast actually, at home. sometimes if you starter is in bad shape but you want to know the bread will rise you can add a pinch and still ferment it overnight

[@Sqwifeve]

​@@ekcs3941I have been doing this as my attempts at sourdough so far taste nice but aren't rising enough😢. My husband is my Guinea pig 😂.

[@m0bob]

Great video. Artisan bakeries are few and far between, we need more.

[@bobbhim2111]

I have used a Continuous Glucose meter- like Jonathan-and was totally blown by the very steep increase in blood sugar and just after consuming flour in the form of rotis- flat bread. I immediately exchanged wheat for millets. Big differences. No spikes. The first millet was sorghum. There are many more millets showing slow digestion characterists. Great programme Jonathan. Thank you.

[@mrssibelius]

Any sorghum bread recipes available?

[@bobbhim2111]

@@mrssibelius The KZbin has lots of methodologies. Stay with the western ones. The recipies fron Indian cooking are deceptably simple and do need a lot of kneeding. I have been making pourable versions. Cooking the grains like rice is simple and tasty. I will try rye sourdough bread and measure its impact in blood sugar readings. Thanks for your input guys. Great programme.

[@helencrossan1064]

I am diabetic type 1 and I have two Coeliac children. I found that talk very interesting, I found much to confirm we were doing things right and the sourdough information shows there is always something new to try. Thanks

[@joinZOE]

So glad you enjoyed it Helen

[@irenatarvid]

It is possible to make and bake quality gluten free/dairy free if necessary bread, that can be healthy as a balanced product with minimized flour component by using other may be non-traditional ingredients. I am coeliac myself and bake a variety of gluten free bread types as well as other baking nutritionally dense dishes.

[@afifahhamilton8843]

Hi, I am sorry to hear that you have two coeliac children and that you are type 1 diabetic. Though I don't know you at all, I strongly suggest that both you and your kids are reacting to cereal grains. There is loads of good research on this (trawl through PubMed for yourself) and it is well known (and even in the NICE guidelines on coeliac) that T1D are usually have antibodies to gluten. Trouble is most doctors and specialists do not read research. Get the whole family (your birth family too, as they have your genes) off all gluten (wheat, spelt, rye, oats and barley) from all sources, and watch their antibodies decline. A good lab for testing is Cyrex, but no NHS lab does proper testing. You have been let down. It can never be safe to give coeliacs any form of wheat whatsoever, sour or not. Doctors will let you down if you just rely on their narrow sliver of information to keep your own beloved children healthy. Get on a super low carb gluten free diet yourself, and the children too, though if they are growing still, they can tolerate a little more in the way of carbs, but they should never be carbs from cereal grains. While reducing your carb intake, keep close eye on your blood glucose and reduce your insulin proportionally, or you are at risk of a hypo. Take that seriously, T1D folk are all too often found 'dead in bed' from going hypo over night from too high a dose of insulin with dinner. Match insulin with carbs, but always lower the carbs. Best of luck.

[@helencrossan1064]

@@afifahhamilton8843 Hi, thanks for your input. I have never felt that I was let down but I guess I was. Both kids are grown now and one follows a Keto diet, the other a low carb gluten free diet, both are active & thriving but it hasn't always been that way. It has been a constant fight to be believed and their condition recognised. One has Asperger's which clouded the issue and was only diagnosed at the age of 25, he also has M.E. We're through the worst now and he's happily married & working from home, able to eat what he needs and is a top computer programmer/ developer. The other is a caddy on the Men's European Tour (golf) he has travelled the world and has learned what and how to eat over time to optimise his energy & avoid cross contamination. As for me, I'm just starting on an insulin new to me and also a tablet to increase insulin sensitivity so we'll have to see how that suits after many years on an imperfect regime. 😉

[@afifahhamilton8843]

@@helencrossan1064 Thank you for your reply. It's always nerve wracking, responding to a person on a comments thread but it matters to me that people get better info than their paid professionals provide. The simple truth about insulin is, it's main role is in handling glucose. The less glucose you eat (i.e. all carbs, including legumes for example, as well as obvious carbs like grains, fruit and sugar) the less insulin you will need. It really is a simple system. Insulin deals with the carbs. The less carbs eaten, the less insulin is needed. The danger for T1D is excess insulin. Excess insulin can do harm in a short time frame, whereas excess insulin or excess carbs does harm slowly, over months and years. So once you are on a low carb/low insulin regime you will be in a far better position to manage the small movement and needs of both and no gross mistakes will be made. It is a dreadful situation, across the world, that this clear simple way of looking at the physiology is not taught, but rather the waters are muddied such that nobody knows what they are doing, and people are woefully harmed in the process, and no-one takes responsibility. I reckon there is just too much money to be made by drugs, and not by eating real food, and the money spinning system wins out. Don't let it feed off YOU though! Well done your sons. They have got things right, after, presumably, years of difficulty. Very testing I am sure! Let's hope the next decades see you all really doing well. Best wishes to you all.

[@gabrielmills2361]

Thanks for this interesting discussion & practical advice. I used to adore rye sourdough bread bought from a wholefoods store supplied by an artisanal baker, but reluctantly stopped eating bread at all with the suspicion I was sensitive to gluten (but certainly don’t have coeliac disease). But now I’ve learnt that my digestive problems are much more likely due to something else, I’ll joyfully try eating it again: also as a welcome change from oatcakes…

[@Gonergrat]

Please do an episode about milk pasteurization. Unpasteurized milk used in cheese is also easier to digest than pasteurized cheese.

[@bonsummers2657]

It's not just the matter of digesion, it's the matter of healthyness, body integrity, lesser inflammation.

[@valerie4975]

Great vid. I went to the site for a local bakery (Bread Alone in NY) that I use and am happy that they make my sourdough with "a long and cool overnight rest and has a very strong sour flavor" and only 3 ingredients. YAY. I had called before to make sure they did not bromate the flour so I knew it was pretty good - now after this vid I feel even better about it!! Thank you!

[@gazlives]

interesting but one correcting concernng what the lady said; we did not 'evolve' with bread. our bodies as far as we know have not changed one iota since we discovered bread making. our bodies are the same as when we ate mostly animals year round with spring and summer supplements of a limited number of plants.

[@Guys_Love_Each_Other]

🍞 Bread and its importance: - Bread has been a staple food for humanity for millennia, but modern industrial processes have changed it significantly. - Archaeological evidence shows that bread has been a part of human diet for thousands of years. - Bread, especially white bread, has lost most of its nutritional content due to modern processing. - Bread has become a simple starch that rapidly turns into sugar in our blood, offering little nutritional support. 👩‍🔬 Is bread healthy? - Bread can be part of a healthy diet, but it depends on the type and how it's made. - Gluten is not inherently bad for most people; only a small percentage of the population has a gluten intolerance. - Sourdough bread can be healthy if made correctly, but not all sourdough bread is the same. 🥖 Different types of bread: - Not all breads are made the same way; there's a significant difference in processes. - Different grains like spelt, rye, and barley offer various nutrients and flavors. - Traditional stone-ground whole grain breads contain more fiber and nutrients compared to modern white breads. 👨‍🍳 Making healthy bread: - Properly made bread involves using whole grains and preserving fiber content. - Good bread should contain a balance of carbohydrates and fiber to avoid rapid sugar spikes. - Ultra-processed supermarket bread often lacks essential nutrients and fiber found in traditional bread. 👩‍⚕ Impact on health: - Eating processed bread with high sugar content can lead to energy crashes and weight gain. - Quality bread with a higher fiber-to-sugar ratio can nourish gut microbes and support overall health. - Ultra-processed bread lacks the complexity of fiber needed for optimal gut health and immune function 🍞 **Ingredients Impact on Gut Microbes:** - Ingredients in store-bought bread include emulsifiers, additives, and artificial sweeteners. - These additives negatively affect gut microbes. - Bread's extended freshness means it may have more negative effects on gut microbes. 🍞 **Choosing Bread:** - Look for simple ingredients like flour, water, and salt. - Avoid bread with long lists of unrecognizable ingredients. - Seek bread with higher fiber content (at least six grams per hundred grams). 🍞 **Label Awareness:** - Treat bread shopping like buying wine - read labels carefully. - Choose bread with words like "whole grain" but be cautious as labels can be deceiving. - Check carbohydrate to fiber ratio, aiming for around 4-5 to 1. 🍞 **Gluten Sensitivity:** - Only 1% of people have celiac disease, a true gluten allergy. - Many who claim gluten sensitivity may not actually be sensitive. - Increased sensitivity may be due to other factors like poor gut health or allergies. 🍞 **Sourdough Bread:** - Sourdough is made with wild yeast and lactic acid bacteria. - Long, slow fermentation makes sourdough more nutritious and easier to digest. - Sourdough fermentation neutralizes phytic acid, improving mineral absorption. 🍞 **Making Sourdough:** - Sourdough can be made quickly with a mother starter kept in the fridge. - Basic steps involve mixing flour, water, and starter, then letting it ferment overnight. - Every starter is unique, influenced by local microbes and baker's hands. - 💡 Sourdough bread sold in supermarkets may not always be real sourdough; it might lack live cultures. - 💡 To ensure you're getting real sourdough, look for labels indicating "long slow fermentation" and "live culture." - 💡 Eating refined white carbs, even if sourdough, is not beneficial; look for whole grain options. - 💡 Opt for breads with mixed flours, added seeds, and low carbohydrate to fiber ratio for healthier choices. - 💡 Consider going to artisan or specialist bakers for high-quality, slow-fermented bread. - 💡 If you have to eat refined bread, pair it with fiber-rich foods, fat, and protein to slow down carbohydrate absorption. - 💡 Understanding bread labels is crucial for healthier choices, just like checking wine labels. - 💡 Bread is meant to be enjoyed as companionship, so it shouldn't be forbidden; focus on balance in your diet. - 💡 Zoe's mission is to improve health through personalized nutrition, starting with an at-home test.

[@aerowez]

One type of bread hardly ever mentioned by the nutritionists is an ordinary loaf made at home in a machine. This is the only kind I eat except when on holiday (when I miss it very much). I buy organic flour in either 8 or 16Kg sacks, mostly grown in the UK and milled locally, which is realtively cheap. I mix up wholemeal, rye and strong white in random proportions. Then just a little salt, quick yeast, olive oil, seeds and water. I love sourdough too but don't have time to make it and the shop bought stuff is either far too expensive or not the proper thing. The point is that home made bread is not only superb tasting and always fresh but really cheap. Flinging the ingredients in and switching on takes about 60 seconds. No need to weigh anything, no mess to clear up. Set it on a timer over night to be ready for breakfast. After this, factory bread is tasteless, expensive and probably bad for you. The machine by the way pays for itself very quickly.

[@2adamast]

I do sourdough with a machine, once I found out how it is just one minute extra compared to normal machine bread. So I am surprised you don't find the time :)

[@aerowez]

@@2adamast Perhaps you can point me to a recipe then, with exact instructions on machine-made SD??

[@2adamast]

@@aerowez Sourdough is a low yeast dough, it's like making machine bread with 0.5gr of yeast. Therefore, I use the program with the longest rise time, add to that I premix when starting, that's a few minutes of the pizza program followed by the delayed long rise program for a total of 8-13 hours. Adding some extra yeast when trying the first times is a good idea but yeast is replaced by the starter. The starter is for me 20% old starter, 40 gr whole rye, 80gr water and 3 gr of sugar, going directly in the fridge until next bread. Starter together with ingredients is the usual amounts. To start a starter some yeast dough and yogurt

[@aerowez]

@@2adamast OK thanks I'll give it a try

[@bennytleilax]

I rarely eat bread. When I do, my first step is to grind the flour. I generaly make it in a machine, and the grain I use is usually Kamut.

[@andreaturno4904]

Just discovered this video. Started baking my own sourdough 10 years ago. Little KZbin videos at that time. Learned along the way with the help of some professional sourdough bakers. Only using organic flour, with my own blend of whole-wheat, white, spelt and semolina. Occasionally blending other type of grains to change taste. I also blend 2 type of starter that I have been maintaining for the past 10 years (whole-wheat and white). I tend to use flour with highest protein and fiber content I can find. Never going back to any commercial bread. And yes, only flour, water, salt and tiny quantity of EVO oil I use as I’m extremely lazy with the process of knitting: time for fermenting and folding more important than knitting to get fluffy full of bubbles super tasty and healthy bread as our ancestors likely baked.

[@v.h.l.4261]

Wow, this was SO interesting and educational. So many questions I had, were answered. I'm definitely going to continue to bake my own bread, now armed with much more knowledge on how to do it the best way. Thank you! 💕

[@brandon3872]

At least if you bake your own bread, you can control exactly what's in it and how it's made.

[@PatriciaSheffield-b5y]

Does anyone else thinks Tim looks like the late actor Jeff chandler ??

[@Cathitza]

I have not managed to find one ready-baked, genuine sourdough in the UK that's wholegrain and has the fibre/sugar ratio recommended in this show. I'm convinced this podcast is actually advising us to read labels for something that doesn't exist! I've switched to Jasons Sourdough Superb Sprouted Grains, whch has more fibre than the sourdough I used to buy (5.2g), but it's still not great. If anyone knows of a baker that makes a genuine wholegrain sourdough, please let me know! (I don't have the patience/inclination to make my own sourdough!)

[@ironrendell2380]

ask Paul's of Melton Mowbray about their Pain de Compagne (probably spelt wrong!) . it's sourdough and organic

[@blacksunwolves1572]

They're not sourdough varieties but just having had a little look online at what the UK supermarkets have to offer, I've found 2 loaves with the suggested ratio of fibre to carbs, both from Sainsburys and both wholemeal. Sainsburys own organic wholemeal bread and Vogels seeded wholemeal bread which is the highest fibre I can find so far in total! Will definitely be trying these next! 😁 Bon appetit everyone!

[@stephanietaraderby8376]

Gail's is a chain bakery and sells very good Sourdough bread.

[@NikoHL]

Tim is a Master Communicator! Vanessa went down a bit of a Chemistry rabbit hole but is clearly a Master of all things baked ! Well done all... Will definitely try proper artisan sourdough as I love good bread.

[@andrewwhitehead2002]

I thought Vanessa's contribution to discussion lifted the overall quality a lot.

[@johnyewdall398]

Barely a mention of fake sourdough bread. Companies exist that supply bakeries with sourdough starter in powder form. A baker can chose his sourdough powder depending on the taste he wants and then adds his powder as magic fairy dust into his plastic bread and sell it as sourdough bread without that powder forming part of any fermentation.

[@AvaMiedzinski-ky2ph]

I make sourdough bread. I grind whole grain and I add fresh ground Flax seed, other seeds, herbs and spices. I make bread sticks with the dough, and even the children love them.

[@kengaskins5083]

Jonathan, this is Ken from the states. Love the way you do these really indepth but simplified interviews with superb questions to really knowledgeable experts. Especially interesting is the historical backdrop on the historical development of bread in this episode. I developed a bias against bread, but I may even go back to making my own (short lived a long time ago). Good stuff!

[@savagefrieze4675]

Thank you so much for this video. I’ve been given to understand that grains begin to lose nutrients from the time they are ground and one should use grain with in three days of grinding for best effect nutritionally. Is that true? Based on that supposition I’ve started grinding my own grains moments before mixing a dough. The bread is fantastic and I can use a large variety of grains. My wife, who has been suffering from vestibular migraines and put on a restrictive diet can eat this bread without negative effect. Thank you 😊

[@colinwalker-watson7219]

A spot check on some packaged bread I have bought recently from the supermarket: Preferred choice called 'Seeded Wholemeal' has Carb/Fibre per 100g: 28.0/11.0 = 2.55 2nd choice if not available, ' Multiseed Soft Wholemeal Farmhouse': 33.7/8.2 = 4.11 Trying for comparison , 'Sourdough Grains & Seeds': 46.0/3.0 = 15.33 The third one also says the manufacture has 'a passion for real Sourdough, fermented over 24 hours from a mother sour culture'. But that one has by far the worst carb/fibre ratio. Does that negate the sourdough benefits?

[@stevefox408]

I think I know what your first choice is as I used to get that one too although I was put off by the high number in the "(of which sugars)" section listed under carbohydrates.......4.5g if we are talking about the same loaf. I believe this being a higher number ties in with the section "is bread empty calories?" My thinking was that say a loaf with 37.6g Carbs (only 1 of which sugars) with 7.8g fibre might be better overall despite it not coming top of the carb:fibre chart, because there was less very available sugar. Not sure if this is right - would love for some clarification from @ZOE on that.

[@gabrielmills2361]

Tim Spector’s recommended ratio for carbs : fibre in bread is not more than 5 : 1 - or else line your gut with fibre (eg from vegetables) first, before eating it, to flatten the blood sugar spike.

[@someoneoutthere4061]

Questions [1] now that we're not heating our homes to 20C due to cost, how do you keep sourdough doing well at lower temperatures in winter - e.g. 10-15 degrees? [2[ You want to improve the health of millions, but the majority of people in the UK cannot afford to buy sourdough bread on a regular basis. What can they do to improve their health? [3] I would like to hear some discussion about grain being separated into fiber, protein and carbs, and only recombined when packaging flour or making bread. What does that do to the quality of the flour, do nutrients get lost? What should we do about it? Where can we buy real wholegrain stone ground flour?

[@denaross]

I use a heat mat typically used for starting my seeds - one that has a temp probe on it. It works great for proofing dough in my cold, Canadian kitchen.

[@susanchristian1665]

At lower temperature it just takes longer. Once the loaf is formed in the tin or banneton it's possible to do the final rising in the fridge overnight, so a cooler room isn;t a big problem. And in the UK at least stoneground whole flour isn't that hard to find. Shipton Mill is where I get mine.

[@tezzanewton]

Recently I realised that bread and other wheat products trigger depression and mood swings in me. Anxiety too

[@wildlifegardener-tracey6206]

Made my starter in first lockdown and still going strong. Never added sugar to my bread as some recipes suggested, just flour, water, salt and olive oil. Love making bread.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

No need for oil whatsoever. Dip it in oil afterward, maybe? Yum.

[@veronicamcleroy5772]

No sugar

[@wildlifegardener-tracey6206]

@@eugeniebreida1583 No oil needed. I add oil to my normal wholemeal loaf with instant yeast but never add it to my sourdough.

[@wildlifegardener-tracey6206]

@@veronicamcleroy5772 No.

[@sarahdotcom]

The Real Bread campaign is arguing for a legal definition of "sourdough" and better labelling of bread. As highlighted in the video there are a lot of ways manufacturers can pull the wool over our eyes. As consumers, we need this legal change so we can make the right decisions.

[@charlesbruggmann7909]

Technically difficult to define sourdough bread in a satisfactory way. Commercial bakers simply add a little bit of starter to yeasted breads ans call them sourdough. Only the French have tried. The definition ultimately relies on a measure of acidity - difficult to police and actually, some perfectly good sourdoughs will fail.

[@sarahdotcom]

@@charlesbruggmann7909 it would be very easy. Sourdough should not include any yeast or other additives.

[@Scor-ah]

Bread is a vessel for all the healthy things you pile on top of it

[@DD-jm5ug]

I made a very nice bread out of seeds. No flour needed. It's delicious 😋

[@cassies6037]

Can you share your recipe please? That sounds delicious 😋

[@emilysandstrom2476]

recipe, please

[@algorillarithm5572]

I have been making a sourdough bread with 25% Whole Wheat and one with 35% whole rye ( pumpernickel) using a wild yeast starter since the beginning of 2020 just before the pandemic. There is a culture war in my house between convenience bread ( garbage store purchases) and my long fermented overnight retarded crusty sourdoughs. I soften my sourdough breads by using whole milk for 1/2 the hydration content and adding a teaspoon of EVOO as well. This video has confirmed to me that i am on the right path and quest for the most nutritious meals i can provide for myself and others. My goal is to purchase a countertop mill to make whole grain Einkorn bread. Thank you so very much.

[@fortuna7469]

Fondly remembering the rye bread baked by my grandmother from local whole grain flower and fermenting the dough with microbes she had for decades in Savonia, Finland. They have a local speciality called "kalakukko" where fish from the nearby lake is baked into the rye bread. It is decent food!

[@tmtb80]

Interesting. Have you tried making it? Sounds like a great snack.

[@anncurran4704]

I am in the Pacific Northwest in the USA. Just yesterday I went to a bakery where all the bread is sourdough and all the grain grown within 12 miles of the bakery. It's located in an industrial park where there is a bread lab where they are researching bread and grains. I came home with a 100% rye loaf of dense bread. It's delicious.

[@earthlings947]

Thank you for this video, which speaks out about the unbelievably poor quality of bread in supermarkets and even some local bakeries. With the rising popularity of ‘sourdough’ bread it’s increasingly impossible to find wholegrain sourdough bread. This is appalling given that wholegrain is healthier than white flour. I had to pay £3.75 for a white ‘sourdough’ loaf recently at my local bakery and I don’t even know how long it’s been fermented. I used to make my own rye and wholewheat sourdough loaves and will be getting back to home bread baking. It would be great to have sourdough classes guided by nutrition, eg sourcing of specialist flours.

[@debramadden889]

Dipping buttered bread in tomato soup is so yummy..

[@chrissieedghill-crump9745]

I've just ordered Vanessa's book, 10 Minute Sourdough' I rarely use my mother, which sits in my fridge, but I shall certainly be getting it out tonight when I get in from work.

[@Kyarrix]

If an individual doesn't already speak the lingo of sourdough bread they won't understand your comment. Someone above stated that he won't be putting his mother in the fridge. I clarified for him, explaining that a sourdough starter is sometimes referred to as the mother. It's worth paying attention to, to avoid excluding people who are not already in the know.

[@marcelacecil3036]

I started making sourdough bread during the pandemic. I keep Oscar (the mother) in the fridge and make bread when we need it. I make all our bread, It is such a different animal than commercial bread. It is easy to do on a Saturday, try it. It is life changing.

[@vandanabali4439]

Rujutas bread advice

[@ruthprescott1136]

I’m just trying to make small changes at the moment and going from my processed white bread to sourdough seems like a brilliant idea - slow but steady changes for me !!

[@tna-technutamateur8249]

If you want to fatten up cows you feed them grains. Even chickens get fat if they eat too much grain. Pigs to. Talking about "whole grain" and it stil makes you fat. Everybody knows that you should not feed ducks bread that is not healthy for them.

[@TaffmanGuyo]

I feel that there is a demand for a follow-up to this, I enjoy these types of video & am fine with scientific content as I'm educated to Postgraduate level but I wonder if you've considered how to get the message to people that might find this challenging in terms of biological understanding, socio-economic issues, potentially feeling that they are failing their families? The lecture & enthusiastic expert approach with a few Q & A's is OK but why not try a small group of non-graduates & see what works for them - or ask them? If statements are made with respect to health outcomes I would find it interesting to have those signposted as Dr John Campbell does in his videos. Keep up the good work, & thanks.

[@trebledog]

The day the neighborhood bakery disappeared and was replaced by supermarket bread marketed by very unhealthy looking corporate executives is the day humans began destroying public health. I worked for a while distributing wheat grain (berries) to nomads suffering from drought and unable to glean grain for their daily bread. This berry went to the neighboorhood miller and ground whole into a flour, which then was sold in the market and most went to small bakers who baked a bread by slapping it to the walls of mud/stone ovens in the ground. This flat bread tasted good, different, the entire berry was milled and used. I think the world should get rid of these bread factories in the West and replace them with several neighborhood bakeries that produce bread as that which I saw and tasted in places around the world where baking bread is still a neighborhood activity.

[@marijkepeereboom6442]

I discovered Einkorn a few years ago. I mill it at home and bake it with a very active sourdough starter. From keto to eating real bread. Filling and satisfying. I only need two slices and don‘t need to snack.

[@patcollins8075]

Just listening to your video its excellent You mentioned just keep a piece of the old dough in the fridge what is in the old dough? How is the old dough made I am just a beginner. Please explain Patricia

[@Daytona2]

What a high quality podcast and video - thank you, thank you. Really insightful - I'm now hugely more informed and able to make sensible choices. Three highly knowledgeable and expert communicators who scythed through all the propaganda the bakery industry has been giving us. Love the simple tricks - look for whole grain, high fibre and the lowest carb to fibre ratio. Now have a look at the supermarket websites and see how their product wording has been misleading us.

[@Hickalum]

Not really … The answer to the question ‘Can Bread Ever be Healthy?’ … is No … Apes don’t eat grains. If you do you will be ill, one way or another.

[@joinZOE]

so pleased you enjoyed the episode Daytona

[@VanessaKimbell]

Thank you

[@juliebodziak1546]

I'm so surprised that the most nutritious option never made it into the discussion ie: homemade bread using home grain mills like Mockmill , Kumo, Nutrimill ect.

[@Coconut-0]

Just enjoying a slice of my home-baked wholemeal loaf toasted for my breakfast when this video popped up👍🏼

[@joinZOE]

Wonderful! What a great combination :)

[@sarahdotcom]

Same! Shipton Mill Three Malts and Sunflower for me, topped with cinnamon, almond and hazelnut butter (one slice) and homemade marmalade on the other slice for breakfast dessert.

[@TheDigitalLearningConsultant]

Does using a bread maker alter the nutritional values? I’m thinking of cutting out all (or as close to all) shop brought bread and making sour dough but I’m a teacher and have very little time so a bread make might be ideal? Any advice out there?

[@helenhucker346]

Thank you for this Podcast. Who knew that bread could be such a complicated topic! I assume that the range of product available is for commercial reasons and to satisfy customer demand for variables such as taste, cost and shelf life as well as nutritional content. Quality obviously varies but hopefully we have moved on from the Victorian era when white bread was promoted because it was cheap to produce, mainly because it contained large amounts of chalk!

[@richardnorris7948]

That was not a nutrition professor. It was Rob Lustig,MD Endocrinologist. He was saying that real’ whole grain bread is heavy and dense and would hurt if it was thrown at you.

[@KevinAmatt]

Yesterday I saw a video by a doctor. (He went through his training and qualifications). He said gluten is an issue for everyone. It gets through our gut lining and causes a leaky gut. Another doctor said our immune system attacks gluten and mistakes our thyroid for gluten and attacks it. Giving us an under active thyroid. I used to have cold hands, which apparently is a sign of under active thyroid. I’ve eliminated a lot of foods that cause inflammation to me. My hands are warm now. Now I’ve started eating sourdough bread and my hands are still warm.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Yes, that is Zonulin causing most of the inflammatory potential.

[@Neptunecloud]

Not all low thyroid is caused by autoimmune problems ( immune system attacking thyroid gland )You need to get blood tests done to see if there are specific thyroid antibodies produced by the body which cause Hashimoto's. If positive, then you can stop eating gluten-containing foods

[@4882416]

I had heard that sourdough bread has only 200 ppm of gluten where typical store-bought bread has 240,000 ppm can someone comment on this?. Also, I buy wheat berries and grind my own flour.

[@MrPipmeister]

So, I just did a test online looking at different supermarkets bread and Hovis Wholemeal Granary has a list of about 10 ingredients, including sugar and caramelized sugar - so you instantly think BAD - but it has 6.8g of Fibre, compared to 2.4g of sugar. So high Fibre and a ration of 2.8:1. Whereas Gail SF Sourdough only has flour, water and salt, plus yoghurt/milk (obviously being sourdough) so you think GOOD and it only has 1.9g of sugar but it only has 2.1g of fiber so a low ratio of 1.13:1…. So how the heck do you know….?

[@ralphkassing6821]

Bread was an easy inexpensive way to use wheat, which is able to be grown almost anywhere, to feed people that would otherwise starve in centuries past. It can be made less harmful when made correctly but is still an imperfect food. Everyone loves some kind of bread but it’s really not great food.

[@Lurksin1]

this is great for me as i was one of those confused consumers at one point that had a severe reaction to something i was eating and was advised to drop any gluten or wheat containing foods from my diet which did eliminate my symptoms but left me feeling scared of those sneaky foods and missing pizza lol. quality matters more than anything else about food

[@VanessaKimbell]

This is a message Tim spoke about recently on the podcast with Steven ... it was brilliant. - Quality is what matters.

[@bruisedviolets]

I will never stop eating bread! I love dark rye, seeded sourdough

[@paulprescott147]

Still no idea what Sourdough is or what I should buy/avoid in the supermarket. And I won't be putting my mother in the fridge.

[@Kyarrix]

Sourdough bread is made with a sourdough starter. It is fermented flour and water usually kept in a jar that you feed every day or every couple of days. The feeding process entails adding flour and water and discarding some of it so you don't end up with a huge amount of starter. Or using some of it. People sometimes refer to the starter as the mother. There's an entire (somewhat pretentious) jargon that has grown up around sourdough. It's not surprising, every interest group develops its own special terminology. Unfortunately that same jargon excludes others who aren't in the know. What you should avoid in the supermarket is processed bread and processed food in general. If the bread comes in a plastic bag, it's processed. Try to find sourdough bread that is made by a person or bakery that takes pride in making a healthier product. This is very difficult to find and extremely uncommon. For that reason most people who want to eat bread but also want to be healthy, end up learning about sourdough and baking in general in order to be able to bake bread themselves. That learning process can be fun and provide community but it's definitely a process. If you have time, even with the barriers to entry it's worth doing. There are some good books and guides out there that explain the process clearly and are more friendly to beginners. I don't have a sourdough starter. I was going to start one but never did because I try to avoid eating lots of carbohydrates in general. I love to bake though and good sourdough bread is incredible. A good loaf of sourdough bread has as much in common with supermarket bread as a fast food burger has with a filet mignon. If you have any questions or want anything clarified, I'm happy to help.

[@jgreen9361]

In my opinion sour dough as a practical alternative to buying bread is not the answer for most people. If you don’t eat much bread, so it’s high price from an artisan local baker is not an issue, buying it probably is the answer. It keeps well, can be sliced and frozen etc. The problems are, wet starters waste a lot of flour in the discards, you need to be baking a lot of bread, the process is long so does not fit into my life style. My need for bread varies a lot with time of year, because I eat seasonal produce, maintaining a starter becomes a challenge, cooking times are longer for sourdough so energy cost is high, so not so good for the planet.

[@alanbently213]

This is a good informative podcast. As always it doesn’t really offer solutions for people on a very limited budget and who are maybe also short of time. However as a sourdough baker and real bread fan, it’s good to have my approach affirmed!

[@hectorsnet]

This is a very informative podcast, however all it tells me is that there is no bread available in supermarkets that is healthy. I might just stop eating bread since making my own bread is neither affordable or practical

[@Windmillmark]

Hi Homemade bread is generally cheaper. You probably know that. If you are lucky to have access to an oven it’s about 20 minutes of my time to make a loaf which lasts us , a couple, 5 days. Obviously I don’t know your circumstances but I am reminded that health is one of the most precious gifts to hold onto (together with relationships and a few other things,) sorry if that sounds patronising at all. I want to encourage starting bread making. It’s a hump to get over to get familiar but afterwards a nice short routine

[@johnspruce7006]

⁠😊

[@chickenbites8877]

I live in the UK and I am seriously struggling to find a healthy bread, and I dont know what to buy!

[@barriesmith3489]

If you like to eat bread make your own as I do you can mix in other grains to give you different flavour’s but don’t pig out on it

[@victorialighting6787]

My husband died from EATL, a cancer associated with coeliac disease. He had had it all his life but not diagnosed until in his late 40s. Wanted to say he never actually vomited but was underweight and had episodes of illness all his life.

[@carolinesykes3636]

So if I understood correctly, the bacteria is dead in sour dough after cooking but the fermentation process has altered the protein structure and release micronutrients?

[@Rosegarden327]

👍

[@connieparrelli3919]

Hi hope you’re all well imake my bread with 2k oats 1 k home meals 1/2 k pumpkin 1/2 sunflower1//2 k sesame 1/2 k linseed crushed just yeast salt water olive oil end it is great when I look recipe on KZbin a get frustrated when the put sugar on eggs love your program thank you so much 👍🏻🌈🇦🇺🦘🐨

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Really all I can use from this vid if they could concede it into WHAT BREAD OR BRANDS OF BREAD TO BUY AND WHEN AND HOW TO USE IT. All the Neolithic etc etc word salads are ok for some but most people want to know what to eat and how and when to eat it... As soon as they start with "it depends" I know THEY THINK they are making it easier to get, but in reality they nuanced it so much that it becomes indigestible (pun intended), what can I do with the facts that breads of some sort have been around for 500 thousand years ago?? Nothing!! that is for otehr bread or food ethicists or historians or professors, I just want to be able to enjoy my HEALTHY bread, tell us THATTTTT. Please!!

[@chrisduffill5248]

Just , one of the reasons I have whole meal flower with all the bits in it and mix it with white flower 50 50 then pop it into my bread maker 4 hours later I have a lovely brown whole meal loaf , it’s so easy to do , you could set it off in the morning go to work and when you get back it’s there ready , good for 3 days only …. So only make a loaf you can size with the flower and water to be good for a 3 day regime

[@risenshine2783]

Please, it is flour !!!!

[@SuzanneU]

My experience as a non-coeliac gluten-sensitive person is that I'm often treated with disbelief and outright scorn. I bake my own bread (potato, oats, seeds, whole-wheat flour, enough white flour to make it light enough for my spouse's enjoyment) and I strictly limit my consumption. If I overdo gluten consumption I develop eczema, canker sores, and IBS. There are many delicious carbohydrates other than wheat. I eat these with enjoyment in forms other than bread. I love breads - ciabatta, real baguettes, pane rustico, Tuscan bread...it irks me to be treated as a hypochondriac when I forgo these delights.

[@bonsummers2657]

Soak, sprout, grind, ferment, bake/cook.

[@eileenfb1948]

I tell people the truth. The hospital said not to eat even small amounts of gluten foods because there is a 10 fold increase in cancer if I do.

[@macsmiffy2197]

I’m intolerant of fructans (a kind of sugar) in wheat, but can tolerate small amounts of spelt sourdough. I’m really lucky to have a local baker who bakes a spelt sourdough. It’s £4 a loaf, but it makes you appreciate bread for its’ own sake and you don’t need to eat too much. PS: M&S does a real rye sourdough!