Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.?

San Francisco-based Ample has brought electric vehicle battery swapping to the U.S. The company was in stealth mode for seven years before launching recently with five swapping stations in the Bay Area. Uber drivers in the area are Ample’s first customers.
The concept isn’t new. A start-up called Better Place launched an EV and battery swapping company after it raised $850 million in venture funding, but it ultimately went bankrupt in 2013. Tesla also demoed battery swapping in 2013 but only opened one station for about a year. Elon Musk said Tesla owners were not interested in it.
Battery swapping is already common in China. Electric vehicle maker Nio, for example, plans to double its network of swapping stations to 500 this year and plans to open stations in Norway as part of its expansion into Europe.
Ample has a different approach, with modular batteries and a focus on fleets. CNBC got an inside look at its headquarters and battery factory in San Francisco to learn how the company plans to bring battery swapping into the mainstream.
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Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.?

[@nokidding152]

The person who did the sound editing needs to hear this: don’t put annoying ringing in the background. Think about what your job is.

[@Robbedem]

The person who made the subtitles should check the synchronisation too. ;)

[@thereisnospace]

what ringing?

[@blardymunggas6884]

So Americans are stealing China’s tech now?

[@Rhine0Cowboy]

@@blardymunggas6884 Not sure what "tech" you are referring to, but if you mean automated car battery swapping, tesla already did it in 2014, and took less then four minutes. They stopped doing it as well, because it's just not very practical and charge times are decreasing anyway.

[@davidmagerman4553]

Exactly my thoughts - high pitched ringing, like insects on a hot summer day, or an old modem connecting. Painful.

[@sareinhart]

This make sense. For a long time, I've thought this is the way to get rid of range anxiety for EVs.

[@RatherBePrivateThanTell]

Agree 100%

[@sleasy01]

I don't experience range anxiety. I just pop in the address and I know that I can make it. But it's lots of chargers in my area. Even free chargers

[@gregorsamsa1364]

How would this get rid of range anxiety? Instead of getting to a charge station you'd have to get to a swap station

[@gabedarrett1301]

Just wanted to say that these high quality mini-documentaries don't go unappreciated! Keep 'em coming!

[@WASHX]

Batteryless cars would be a great option. You buy the car, and pay for a fully charged battery when needed. You can always own a battery if it makes sense to you. Another option could be that automakers make fully charged batteries available to their clients wherever they go. Same car brand same battery technology. No issue. No need of lengthy charging operation, no charging stations needed. Swap your Tesla battery at a Tesla swapping station. Swap your Chevy battery at a Chevy swapping station... Finally the government could ask all automakers to standardize the battery design for easy swapping between brands. There's a lot to say on the vast and developing story

[@kevinloving3141]

Not pursuing battery swap technology might come to be Elon Musk's biggest mistakes unless Musk's orders all his cars go deactivated after 15 or 20 years wither or the original owner is still driving their 15 to 20 year old Tesla with the Model S being $35000 I can see them trying to get their money's worth out that car.

[@FMTF-makemoneyonline]

In the Netherlands a battery swapping station costs 3 million euro. That's a lot of cars that need to go through, for it to become profitable.

[@TheFreeThinkingMan]

But if they can sell excess power back to the grid then that's even more potential revenue. Just a thought.

[@inter5123]

It’s the exact same problem many gas stations have. The gas isn’t the money maker for them but usually the convenience store that turns the profit.

[@FMTF-makemoneyonline]

@@inter5123 Isn't that the same for when opting for a charging solution? I don't see this as an avantage for saapping. The economis for swapping are just terribly bad.

[@inter5123]

@@FMTF-makemoneyonline oh it would be the same charging or not. The margins are low either way. Maybe their consumer stations would have a convenience store aspect but as it stands there’s no way they can get a good ROI within a reasonable time.

[@paul_london]

In England they retrofit street light poles with EV charging sockets, each costs like 1500 pounds. For 3 million pounds it would be 2000 mini-charging stations, plenty for the entire city. At a cost of single battery swap station.

[@marcosfuerte8739]

"We don't want to say how much it cost to build, how many batteries can be charged, and how heavy each battery is." Fantastic.

[@leonidas14775]

Journalism

[@ariantasariedimunthe4734]

Expensive

[@earthlingsixbillionandsome406]

They've said a number of times that consumers aren't their target market. This is a consumer showcase really.

[@mr.anderson9938]

Still a better approach than nikolas promising the moon and be complete frauds

[@neeljavia2965]

@@mr.anderson9938 True.

[@abstractedaway]

7:50 For those who aren't sure they want to run exclusively on whatever battery gets swapped in, why not mix the approach? Vehicles could have their own battery capacity plus use Ample's for range extension.

[@lukeknowles5700]

Sure, double the weight of the batteries, great idea.

[@gregorsamsa1364]

Where would the ample battery fit in?

[@fredrikstenberg8843]

In addition, most people forget one of the main advantages with battery swapping: You will of course also avoid the big common problem with the need of the extremely expensive change of power source when the car is 5 to 10 years old. Not a small issue. Smart system.

[@trinitybricks9522]

For everyday commute plugin charging is good, only long drivers will need this swapping. semi-tractor-trailer trucks are a good candidate for battery swapping. Also for my personal car, why would I trade a good battery of mine with degraded battery of theirs from swapping place, unless it's a commercial vehicle.

[@machinist7230]

I think what we'll see with class 8 trucks is a combination of supplemental batteries and solar charging in the trailers, as the few class 8 etrucks that are close to market release, have shown abysmal range for just the tractor - a Freightliner Ecascadia has only 250ish miles. Meanwhile, an otr driver team can easily be moving 22 hours a day.

[@Hepsewind]

For trucks trailers with battery is probably more likely

[@igeekone]

Yes. Battery swapping only makes sense for fleet vehicles.

[@millefune]

Or people that live in apartments, and don't have safe personal charging options.

[@qinby1182]

Battery swapping IS A DUMB IDEA. Sounds "Clever" BUT Batteries is the MOST EXPENSIVE part of an EV AND there is AND WILL BE a battery shortage for the foreseable future. With battery swapping you need MORE BATTERIES. Most cars should be able to charge while parked so more chargers are needed, swapping is unecessary.

[@jamescrud]

"The company went bankrupt even though it had over $1B in funding" Yes that's what happens when you burn through other peoples money and never turn a profit. Lol.

[@robertsanders7060]

And part of that billion is spent on this CNBC infomercial !

[@cessealbeach]

Real intentions ..ponzi

[@clownskill11]

@Nate Morey ev is such a scam if it weren’t for imaginary internet block coins then NONE of these companies would exist or have the cash flow to stay afloat

[@clownskill11]

@Nate Morey Toyota working with the military to build diesel powered electric vehicles, cut out the charging all together

[@johnsonaustinj]

Remember Amazon? They didn't turn profit for YEARS

[@mbaxter22]

Here I am, a 2013 Nissan Leaf owner that's been investigating a battery replacement for years and coming up disappointed. Seeing those Gen 1 Leafs rolling in to their batteries swapped out, I'm like Oooh! Oooh! Do me! I'll take a battery swap, sure!

[@aljudy01]

For sure. Also have a 2013 Leaf. So I'm with you. My big q would be, what range am I getting? Unfortunately did not come up as a point.

[@justsomeguy934]

You can update your Leaf's batteries, or add additional ones. I've seen several KZbin channels were a particular shop does this. The ultimate problem with the Leaf is that it's capacity constrained - it lacks modern liquid cooling, so therefore you can't put in 5x the storage (for example).

[@noirprncess]

This seems like a great idea to refresh older generation EVS that will be ready for replacement batteries. They should also go after retro-fit cars that are converted to EV.

[@reginald7214]

That would be great

[@justsomeguy934]

Then have the dealers upgrade your old battery with a warranty.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

Electric cars are getting exciting as they are slowly overcoming their limitations. Electric cars are the future, that's for certain.

[@pinkysweets]

maybe, it's better be fast before hydrogen overcomes it's limitation

[@JAYJAY-ch4ik]

Nah electric car will not be the future. It’s just hyped. The best alternative currently is hydrogen fuel cell. Check out Toyota Mirai. Battery powered cars require charging, at high rates it damages fast and in high altitude and cold regions it’s effectiveness slashed by 60-70%.

[@medoomedoo1634]

@@pinkysweets Hydrogen cars is not the future estimated especially we haven't hydrogen station compared to electric car wish you can charge it at your home !

[@jswats92]

where do you think all the electricity comes from?... the future is nuclear hopefully the stigma goes away soon \

[@bftjoe]

@@pinkysweets Hydrogen will never succeed when you can charge an EV anywhere where you have access to a standard electrical outlet.

[@lowrep1rmax263]

Liability issues when there is a problem? Fire? Manufacturer’s fault or the battery company’s fault?

[@connorkimball3064]

Depends on which component is at fault i would assume

[@pipe2devnull]

A battery swap service would service and safety test batteries more often than a private owner.

[@k3v24]

Why would the manufacturer take ownership of fault for service they did not do

[@thoughtsofapeer]

Obviously Ample. But they will probably be bought by VW or Toyota so in the end it doesn't matter

[@photonboy999]

And that's a major reason it won't succeed likely for consumer usage. If it's meant for SWAPPING to a specific fleet of trucks it becomes a non-issue since they can sort out those issue internally.

[@fyrwerx4485]

@1:43 I totally disagree... Americans will love battery swap as long as it's fast and convenient.

[@josephmccartney5951]

@Raven Gaming 🥱 such a narrow minded American mindset right there 🤡 but to get on to answering your ignorant question/concern. U realize how many apartment complexes there are in America n the lack of charging stations that these apartment’s can’t have, you’ll be happy u have one to go to. Plus the fact that If u get a removable battery it takes 30% of your total amount of the price of the car. It’s simple. Plus people don’t want to wait 1 hr to charge, unless they have a home with a garage that they can charge there. Stop being narrow minded. Plus taxi’s aren’t going to wait an hr plus to charge as well.

[@paulngo4946]

@Raven Gaming He's probably talking about battery as a service... The ec6 starting price is approx. $73,322 USD, opting for BaaS will reduce the cost by $20,000 USD (27%) but you have to pay monthly for "leasing" the battery. This subscription model pays for building new swap stations and maintaining existing ones. This makes sense in China since Tier 1 cities such as Shanghai; most people live in high rise apartment complexes and don't have the luxury of plugging in when they get home. (Noted that some high rise apartment's parking structure has charging access and entertainment spots + shopping centers have them too) There's an app that shows you where all the swap stations are and you can queue in advance before you get there. Like, if I live in China and I'm getting off of work on Friday at 5:00PM and want a fresh battery, I can reserve my spot while still at the office. Then get off work, stop by the station at my appointment time and do the swap which is like 5 min. max. The system isn't perfect and there's still delays but they're working on improving the situation with new stations and faster robots.

[@GK-op4oc]

@@mwwhited "charging stations take longer and require more space" Sure. Both a swap station and charging station take space. Most corporate installations install into the sidewalk and run wires from the building across the sidewalk. As the quoted 30 minutes needed to charge 80% of a Tesla battery, overlapping office time or shopping time with charging time removes charging time as a concern in most instances. In Robocar utopia, a car in theory could drive itself to a charging station and take care of the charge on its own.

[@GK-op4oc]

@@josephmccartney5951 "such a narrow minded American mindset right there" Are Americans narrow-minded ? Poking fun at one of most inventive civilizations the planet has ever known seems to be an international hobby for the narrow-minded. But let us talk about the economics of swappable batteries, including time.. When charging time is overlapped with office time or shopping time or home-charging time, charging takes the same or less time than swapping because no significant amount of time is spent doing either. You raise a good point about taxi recharge time, but with a range of 350 miles/charge (TeslaModel3), at 70 miles/hour, that is 5 hours of drive time. At 20 miles/hour in a busy city, that is 17 hours. Seems like the taxi driver can drive all day. In a 30 minute break at a Tesla SuperCharge station, another 300 miles (~80%) is added.

[@GK-op4oc]

@@josephmccartney5951 "Plus the fact that If u get a removable battery it takes 30% of your total amount of the price of the car" The lower purchase price is an appealing aspect of purchasing an EV : smaller battery packs are lighter and improve effective range while using the smaller pack. But the cost of swapping packs will include the cost of the batteries in the pack, and the recurring finance charges usually add to increase the total cost of the car given the additional middleman. If you are a car driver needing a short range (< 100 miles day), the smaller pack is for you. Swapping companies are free to vary the charge of the pack, and there are possibilities for lower cost/lower density batteries as well as price gouging. Don't get me wrong. I am a fan of the modular pack. As for saving "30%" during the purchase of the car, what happens to lower purchase prices for similar products? The price rises. But during the 10-20 year ramp-up of EVs that is primarily constrained by battery material, there is a risk that there will not be enough swappable batteries because more swappable packs are needed when compared to the same volume of fixed-installation battery. But there is also a chance that customers would be willing to accept a 1/3 battery or 1/2 battery car with a battery they control and are able to upgrade later

[@mattwolf7698]

I'd rather own my battery, that said, when the battery is really worn out after 8-10 years, I'd like to be able to swap it for a new one for a decent price, I hope this is possible. It would also be nice if 4 or so years down the line a battery with much better range came out and you wanted to upgrade to that.

[@reginald7214]

Thats how Nio works. The swap station monitors batteries as well so you never get a degraded one. You can save 10k on the purchase price and rent the battery. Not sure if it'll work in the U.S. a nii swap action can do 312 swaps a day for what it's worth. They'll have 6,000 stations by 2025. Which is just shy if 2 million swaps a day potentially. Of course they have plug in with all vehicles as well.

[@Yendi233]

Nio

[@zodsinclair8500]

I hope it doesn't take 90 seconds for a guy on a skateboard to roll under & steal a battery & Sell it on Ebay for a Tripple profit like those Car Exhaust Filters they be stealing these days!

[@d.e.b.b5788]

We have that situation now. The average shade tree mechanic can change out a Prius battery in about an hour, and there are generic battery packs instead of the sky high Toyota brand ones, so you can purchase a generic battery pack much cheaper. But it's not a simple drop in, like you have in your flashlight. It should be.

[@retiree1033]

Yeah but... with this system, if you keep your vehicle for as little as a year the chances are you'd be swapping your batteries for newer ones anyway any time you need a recharge. I really can't see the point in having your own battery.

[@betelgeuser1100]

Sharing batteries and the american mindset of ownership does not mix

[@shanewillbur1325]

Americans have been doing this Propane with tanks for years

[@leetjohnson]

@@shanewillbur1325 a $20 tank of propane to cook food on a grill is a little different than swapping a $10,000 battery.

[@ArthursHD]

If I could have an e-bike or a scooter with rented battery cost the same per charge as my own and I could charge it with cheap electricity ~2¢ per kWh regardless of charging it at home or at a station. I would be for it. Than discharging it when electricity price is high will be on their pocket book :) They gotta diside at what price it's worth it to degrade batteries and predict when how quickly dump the energy. Honesty there is enough profit insentive just for grid storage alone. There are about couple hours each work day with electricity price above 7¢ per kWh. If it costs ~4¢ to cycle kWh. For a lot of folks in my area electricity cost ~13¢ per kWh retail including tax and grid charge. One could possibly squeeze in rental of battery in such price. It would reduce the upfront cost of electric scooters. Someone should make an E-bike charger that communicate with PV charge controler like EPEVER Tracer to charge efficiently when power is produced with little loss. And inverter manufacturers should implement price tracking to optimize when and where power goes.

[@binqian2022]

yeah, american rather share girl friends

[@VonnieOdette]

How about a subscription service?

[@gzhang207]

Battery swap can succeed where limited space makes charging at large scale impossible: NYC, SFC, LA, Hongkong , Shanghai and Japan for examples.

[@mamadouaziza2536]

Have you been to the Los Angeles area lately? There are hundreds of public chargers in LA.

[@gzhang207]

Someone may have already done the math. LA have 5.5 million cars, if these were all EV cars, dividing that the number of public chargers resulting the peak charging capacity required per charging station. Multiple the minimum charging time gets the total charging time. However LA only have 63K EV at this moment and the whole California EV ownership is 1.2%. So if we push EV ownership to 10% in CA, the current charging station need to scale 10x to maintain the same level service. Since LA has so many attractions, it’s charging needs for tourists and residents combined would far exceed those estimate based on EV ownerships. Is anybody going to suggest that are enough charging stations in LA for the foreseeable future?

[@mamadouaziza2536]

@@gzhang207 They are installing new stations weekly. There are charge points next to parking meters. Charge points in every government building. Libraries now have chargers. Parking garages have chargers. Grocery store, convenience stores.. Believe it or not, LA is becoming increasingly urban pertaining to walking in one's community versus driving all the time. If you live in a apartment building that does not have chargers in the lot, you can simple find a public charger a block or two away.. As time goes by, the public will adapt to EVs and its infrastructure

[@brandondevahl552]

No one cares about those cities

[@CSHarvey]

Current paradigm is based around gas stations. When vehicles can charge at L2 in any parking lot, then Fast charging can be relegated to long distance travel, robotaxis, and the occassional emergency charge.

[@justinroca932]

Love these docuseries u guys do.very informative on hot button topics.keep it up!

[@johns6176]

The solution is to trickle charge when you get home and leave it overnight, super charge when needed. You wont damage the battery if you only super charge occasionally. Also, you won't get a cheaper charge rate than trickle charging at home, these services will all have a convenience fee.

[@lanceareadbhar]

Presumably, you would choose to buy the manufacturer's battery when buying your car. I could see people who rent an apartment and don't have a charger at work choosing this option as it is more convenient than their current situation assuming there is enough infrastructure to make this viable. It would probably only make sense for city driving until there are enough of them off major highways. One concern is how many cars can they service at one time?

[@LogicAndReason2025]

Replacement batteries can cost close to half the price of a new car. You have to calculate that in to the total cost of operation.

[@membear]

There is a problem like in cities in the northeast where some homes do not even have driveways and people need to park on the street, there is no way to charge their cars same with apartment buildings.

[@jamesmedina2062]

@STeresa Swappable batteries seems of course easier to centralize than to decentralize and feature charging on every street. We will probably go the way of fuel stations which there are more of when there is more density of cars/trucks. I also see the possibility beyond my lifetime of built in electrical systems that vehicles access via magnetics. In fact I envision futuristic vehicles to float just like mag-lev trains, because the achievable ride will be so smooth and because hovercraft were in the first Star Wars!

[@MDP1702]

People still need to park their car somewhere during the night, so just place chargers there. Also not everyone needs to charge every night, so you can have just enough charging places only used by people who really need to charge (by charging a base price per night when not charging), ... Then ofcourse you should ask yourself, why do these people need a car? To go shopping? Place more chargers at stores. Work? Place chargers at the workplace. .... In the end it is mostly about planning and it will not be surprising if we see plenty of level 2 chargers popping up at stores, work places, public parking lots, ... Charging on several occasions a little a bit can be just as good as charging a lot at once (and is even better for the battery).

[@rreagan007]

When almost all cars are electric, almost every parking space can have its own charger. It's an infrastructure problem that will be solved given enough time.

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@rreagan007 i know you are free to dream but if government in the United States does not want to spend a few thousand on public health, how will they spend many thousands on public charging? And we are talking per person. Nationally if it costs more than we can borrow from the rich and the Chinese then we cannot afford it within a reasonable time frame. Plus there may continue to be a growth model. New roads and new homes. If we can barely afford for extremely rudimentary asphalt paving projects, how will we be both FOCUSED and WEALTHY enough to install charging on every road and parking spot? I think future robotics will be the answer to all of these questions. It has to be because modern man is getting awfully lazy.

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@rreagan007 What we should have is trickle car chargers at parking spots running on elevated and angled solar panels...

[@mikeselectricstuff]

How do they manage coolant flow with modular batteries? I suspect they don't so you can't fast-charge them, which would be an unacceptable compromise for most people.

[@tennislite]

Can battery be small enough so be cooled with a plate contact? Then plate cooled with coolant.

[@artos6209]

Doesn't matter to me. I already have fresh batteries and drove off to somewhere else while my depleted batteries are charging.

[@jasonji1900]

And trickle charge makes the battery last longer anyway. You wouldn’t need to cool it at all if you do it this way.

[@cyclopsvision6370]

ambient air cooling, like the Nissan Leaf?

[@cyclopsvision6370]

@@jasonji1900 if you don't own the battery, why would you care if the battery pack is being trickle charged or fast charged?

[@chrisbonshor2208]

That's a very cool concept and I like how it can work for people with limited access to home charging. I think one of the biggest benefits of owning a gas car is that you can go to any gas station and it works. For those of us driving EVs, that level of universality is just not even close to being there. This seems to be a step away from that.

[@bunsw2070]

2 years later and electric cars are known for catching fire and burning down entire multilevel parking lots or automobile transport ships. Nobody is buying EVs anymore and their depreciation is 50% per year. The insurance is outrageous because any damage to the car is too risky for the insurance companies to take responsibility to repair. Stellantis built the Jeep Wrangler 4xe hybrid by placing the lithium nickel-cobalt-manganese battery inside the passenger compartment regardless of the likelihood that when the battery goes into thermal runaway the toxic and flammable fumes fill the passenger compartment. The internet is full of videos of these vehicles exploding. Amazing that the experts at the regulators and insurance companies didn't see any problem with this.

[@davidshakespeare9767]

Great idea, I guess every time we get battery swap we also get a complete car wash when in snow conditions?

[@nosknut]

Or maybe this product is not intended for the small portion of the world that is in extreme snow lol. They said it quite clearly; they are targeting cities

[@yaughl]

I believe battery swapping will be more popular for commercial sectors like Curriers, busses, ride sharing etc. Individual drivers will likely want to own the battery and charge it themselves. That being said, both are correct and have their place depending on the vehicles use case.

[@Kylefassbinderful]

As long as Ample is frequently changing out old modules I think it's a great concept. I personally would love to not have to worry about installing a Level 2 charger at my house. I would slow charge at home when I don't plan on going anywhere for awhile and then hit up a swap station when I'm out and about more.

[@royh6526]

As long as you are comfortable with the monthly fee for the battery rental. You didn't think Ample was going to have spare batteries, replace old ones and pay for swap stations for free did you?

[@Kylefassbinderful]

​@@royh6526 I never said any of it would be free. Why would I make that assumption? I think if I can afford the car then I can probably afford an added monthly cost. I'm hella rich.

[@bobellison7752]

What about the grunge and crap that needs to be removed from the bottom of the car first? In any place that has real weather, it gets nasty under there! 5 min to wash, 10 min to dry, 20 to charge

[@johnsarab4500]

So you would rather wait 4 HOURS?

[@timothykeith1367]

They can trickle charge when only a few EVs need their service. But will they be able to do that if hundreds of customers need their service at a given location?

[@GK-op4oc]

Hmm. Presumably, there is lower demand at night, so the battery stock could be charged slowly overnight. Probably zero batteries would be returned completely depleted.

[@JohnDoe-vf3qo]

you can say the same for fast charging…

[@IonorReasSpamGenerator]

The question is who even needs battery swaps on regular basis other than truck drivers or others with high battery drain due towing? Taxi and bus drivers got launch brakes anyway nor there is necessary that many taxi drivers driving over 180 miles per shift, so who exactly will be the audience for these things when you will be able to charge your EV car during shopping, thus removing even part of the population which currently won't buy EV because they did not have the option to charge at home?

[@bftjoe]

@@IonorReasSpamGenerator It says there are about 100 Uber drivers using their service with 5 stations in bay area. Average 1.3 swaps per day per driver.

[@IonorReasSpamGenerator]

@@bftjoe In case of shorter range older cars like old gen Nissan Leaf perhaps, but new ones with 180+ real miles currently available at affordable second hand prices? Looks like solution for an issue that disapear in a few years.

[@harrychu650]

Too much wear on the connection between the vehicle and the pack. The ideal is to slow charge overnight, cheaper and prolongs the life of the batteries.

[@DanielFenandes]

Yes, at night, when no solar power is available, so you can charge using dirty energy

[@harrychu650]

@@DanielFenandes Tesla Powerwall.

[@febrianadji5758]

@@harrychu650 you need a pack of that to change vehicle

[@NickyNightShine]

easier to replace a connector than a whole battery pack

[@mattwolf7698]

The problem is some people drive long distances, for example when I'm going on vacation in the summer, I will sometimes drive over 500 miles in a day, Also I occasionally do a few 300 mile trips to see family throughout the year. Yes there is fast charging but it's not good for the battery. Granted, I'm sure range will eventually increase.

[@FinancialShinanigan]

Would love skateboard designs where we can swap out body styles. Warm weather? Switch to a convertible. Moving cross country? Now it's a pickup truck.

[@specialopsdave]

I see, but they would have to make the lower half of the body really heavy for crash safety purposes, but if they added a roll bar, I could totally see a modular body panel system for the top half

[@reginald7214]

Ahhh that's a great idea!

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@specialopsdave Vehicles in the future will not be as heavy as they are now. It is inevitable consequence of progress. Where the public wants them light, vehicles weigh 20-30% what they weigh in the US which historically has very cheap fuels and high production of fuels.When the vehicle weighs say 1300 lbs, a crash is not with as much force. As powerplants mature, they will become smaller and smaller as well, reducing the weight of vehicles. In 50 years vehicles may not weigh that much at all, which will ultimately lead to significant energy efficiencies.

[@yehimstone5492]

Just order a tesla robotaxi of your choice

[@specialopsdave]

@@yehimstone5492 Once again, you are COMPLETELY ignoring the U.S. and it's inability to share property like cars with each other. Otherwise, one person would share their pickup truck with 5 neighbors lmao

[@jjayman2]

Superb! I have been hoping for this technology to develop... well done!

[@emersiv5631]

I love how I thought of this YEARS AGO when EV's first became popular. I always knew the charging method was to impractical. The battery swap method is exactly the way I thought it should be implemented. I know it's more difficult but it's definitely more convenient for consumers.

[@rreagan007]

It's also a lot more expensive. Instead of having one battery pack in every car, you need spare battery packs to swap in and out and the infrastructure to handle that. Most people don't need battery swapping when they can just charge their car overnight at their home and aren't going to be willing to pay the added cost for battery swaps. It's especially impractical in many places in the U.S. where we have single-family homes that can have solar panels on the roof and people can then charge up their electric cars for essentially free.

[@emersiv5631]

@@rreagan007 what? Are you serious? Did you not watch the video? This method isn't as expensive or as stressful to America's power grid & it's good when you drive alot or want to take your car with you when you travel to other states. What's it Matter how old a battery is on the modules when you can just stop at another swap station?(assuming the infrastructure is present) alot of people that live in cities don't have "solar panels" or even a garage to charge. It would be similar to a gas station but instead of fuel you'd grab a charged module and be on your way. Im not saying take away the charge method but imagine both options.

[@churblefurbles]

you knew? fantasy is easy, but as we are seeing they are integrating the battery as structural now to save weight because weight is range, so its not going to be a thing for a long time. Battery capacity would have to increase several fold before such an idea even became slightly viable.

[@HavokBWR]

​@@emersiv5631 Nah its dumb. Ev range is increasing really quickly, so you wont need to stop and charge as often, something thats getting faster and faster. Increased weight of the vehicle really reduces range, having a hotswapable battery vs a structurally integrated one is going to reduce the range. The majority of car use isnt going on long trips, so most people will have their cars charging over night. Even on long trips fast charging is getting faster and faster. Many places are retrofitting street lamps into ev chargers for people who dont have a garage. How many battery packs would they need to have at a station, they said they would be trickle charging these packs so youd need a lot. Having piles of the most expensive component of your vehicle sitting around is such a waste of money.

[@mrandersson2009]

yup this is the way to go and obvious to everyone except car manufacturers that want to sell proprietary batteries and new cars when the battery dies. Batteries should be compatible between cars and rented not owned.

[@jhshao8435]

NIO already ahead of this game...

[@pinkysweets]

no they are not, the tech is there, other manufacturers are not not seeing the potential to do it, Nio buring more cash implementing it though

[@Michael-tu2vf]

@@pinkysweets u r funny, u don't know how popular each station is

[@newmoneymarcus]

Way ahead!

[@shido8597]

@@pinkysweets yes they are

[@amei..2261]

In china how many battery swap stations they have in the same location?

[@thewolfdoctor761]

The process takes 10 minutes. How long do you wait in line? Similarly the 10 minute oil change - I've never been out in under a half hour.

[@onlinepaidsurvey]

If you have 6 cars ahead of you that will be 1 hour of wait time.

[@Robbedem]

yeah, when they said 10 minutes I immediatly thought, wait, that's too long! Battery swapping shouldn't take more than 3 minutes. Seems like they still need to improve their tech.

[@haruyanto8085]

Both are subject to availability...

[@MolloRelax]

One guy in the documentary commented that a person would not have a clue as to where his swapped battery came from, or how much usage it already piled up over time. Well folks that problem is easily resolved by simply operating a tracking system of the serial numbers of each battery pack that is installed, along with the cumulative mileage driven of the same battery....If they can land on Mars; this a piece of cake to do.

[@davidshakespeare9767]

When new longer range battery tech comes out do you charge more for better range batteries?

[@sinkinpat]

“How much does it cost for one of these?” Interviewer. “We cant get the exact number” CEO guy. BS every business owner knows exactly what the cost is at that time and what they project it to be. He didn’t want to say. You are going to need to get every car manufacturer to standardize their battery pack. In the RC car world they standardized their battery packs in the 1980’s. The idea is solid and sound. But I am skeptical on its implementation.

[@alanthesalamander2327]

So am I. At first I thought they meant swapping out the battery once it gets old and has less capacity. As I watched the video I was confused at to the purpose of constantly swapping the batteries as opposed to just charging up.

[@bftjoe]

Of course they know, they just don't want to give the exact number to keep it from their competitors. How many car companies go to the press and announce exactly how much money it takes to produce each car?

[@robm8947]

@@bftjoe They know the cost but are embarassed to say because it is ridicuously high. Factor in the maintenance of all those fragile, moving parts and there is no way it will work except, maybe, inside someones warehouse or an existing gas station.

[@paul_london]

yeah this startup is so much Nikola, just wasting investors money

[@gravityhypernova]

Did you watch the same video? They literally responded that the cost to build was "in the tens of thousands, like an expensive level 2 charger". 4:31 Not "we can't get the exact number" that you pretend was said. Of course he knows what it costs, and of course he didn't want to say... but he still said way more than you let on. "The cost of a single port EVSE unit ranges from $300-$1,500 for Level 1, $400-$6,500 for Level 2, and $10,000-$40,000 for DC fast charging. Installation costs vary greatly from site to site with a ballpark cost range of $0-$3,000 for Level 1, $600- $12,700 for Level 2, and $4,000-$51,000 for DC fast charging." - Costs Associated With Non-Residential Electric Vehicle Supply afdc.energy.gov - EVSE Cost Report 2015 (and six years old for this tech is already a long time)

[@WeylandLabs]

It's astounding to see how far behind we " The U.S " are becoming in EV production Renewable Energy Storage.

[@HavokBWR]

Thank god for tesla.

[@sport504]

Come to Europe hahahaha you've seen nothing yet😂😂

[@khrisstake2210]

Why is that a problem?

[@WeylandLabs]

@@khrisstake2210 You don't keep up with world economics do you ? And if you don't see it as a problem, I guarantee your kids will.

[@ObsoleteTutorials]

"5 EV manufacturers, but will not discuss which ones" well obviously kia and nissan are 2 of them.

[@richardlinares6314]

Those were old Leafs. Seems like the company just retrofitted an old Leaf as a proof of concept.

[@aljudy01]

Nissan have not been supporting Leaf owners for non-warrenty OEM battery swops and are getting a bad name for it. I don't know what the reasons are for the lack of help, but I wondered if they looked at Ample as a possible solution. For sure, there is not a Leaf owner out there who would not be interested in Ample. Just please tell me how many kWhrs Ample can sqeeze into a Leaf.

[@AlexFoster2291]

10:07 "...The entire presidential fleet..." uhhh great reporting there...

[@mbaxter22]

LOL I caught that, too. I was WTF? Presidential fleet? Don't they mean "government fleet"?

[@bistromathics6]

Yeah, I was expecting a number that would seem large for a single person or family, just like the Presidential fleet of helicopters isn't just 2 or 3. But 645,000??? I had to go back and look. Luckily, the headline they showed said "...Government Fleet...", meaning, the entire U.S. government, which actually matches the stated number

[@YadraVoat]

@@bistromathics6 Yeah, seems like a Freudian slip from those who are thinking "royal fleet."

[@gargalash9191]

"for a fast charge thats as cheap as gas" so its going to cost as much as gas or probably more when charging will be cheaper. this system makes sense for people that wont have access to a charge point at their homes.

[@mamadouaziza2536]

It makes no sense at all.. Its better to just go to a public charger (and there are plenty of them now) and recharge the battery.. The swap stations are only good if you need a completely new battery because the original is affected by degradation and is out of warranty. It makes no sense to use these swap stations every time a driver can't find a public charger when his/her battery is dying.

[@qinby1182]

Battery swapping IS A DUMB IDEA. Sounds "Clever" BUT Batteries is the MOST EXPENSIVE part of an EV AND there is AND WILL BE a battery shortage for the foreseable future. With battery swapping you need MORE BATTERIES. Most cars should be able to charge while parked so more chargers are needed, swapping is unecessary.

[@Dranomoly]

7:50 this is the biggest problem. Also fast charging is getting faster and faster.

[@jae9843]

Yup. 100% why it'll never catch on in the consumer market.

[@mz2433]

But swapping seems more green and ensure all electricity is green

[@binqian2022]

but fast charging will soon reach limit .. of the grid

[@samuelmitchell5937]

@@mz2433 It's actually the opposite because now instead of having just on battery for one car, manufactures have to make three to even five more to keep up with demand. You're just moving the pollution around.

[@tennislite]

How about a hybrid battery system? A 100 mile permanent battery for daily driving and then a hook up for modular for long trips. Think of all the capacity and weight an EV carries that is only needed 5% of the time. Also, think about cost of the car coming down with only 100 mile range needed for initial cost.

[@21boxhead]

BATTERY SWAPPING MAKES SENSE WITH FLEETS AND UBER/LYFT DRIVERS BUT SOMETIME I WANT TO SWAP ONCE IT HAS LOTS OF MILES AND NOT PAY $10000 OR MORE FOR A NEW ONE

[@Mitnixbinichfroh]

So... You'll Like a swapable battery Like this one and mit that of Tesla right now :)

[@luisgordillo1695]

Battery prices went way down. I'm a mechanic and they were like 6k when they first came out. Not they're like 1400 to 2500.

[@21boxhead]

@@luisgordillo1695 DEPENDS ON THE CAR TESLA BATTERIES COST AROUND $10000

[@markjohnson8602]

@@luisgordillo1695 Battery prices have not gone down! where are you a mechanic?!

[@luisgordillo1695]

@@markjohnson8602 in California.I'm talking about normal Hybrid batteries.not specialty batteries like Tesla's or other expensive brands.

[@keithstamper3648]

I love the comment about the owner of a car wanting to own the battery. I don’t buy the gas station when I buy a car. What a strange analogy he makes. Replaceable batteries are the best solution. I would purchase an electric vehicle when I can pull up to a charge station and swap a battery in the time it takes to fill a gas tank. Brilliant idea.

[@ilham78]

Oh, now we wanna go the NIO way☺

[@ksc7957]

Tesla invent this way first and Nio copy it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fma5YamCaNOhfrs

[@ThatCoolDude-bv4dr]

Invest now while the price is low.

[@haruyanto8085]

@@ksc7957 this is a KZbin video not a credible source, didn't you learn this in university?

[@PG-tc6os]

This solution is great for people who live in the city

[@creativemindplay]

Live*

[@PG-tc6os]

@@creativemindplay thank you

[@josephd2383]

I wouldn’t buy any of the vehicle without the ability of battery swapping.

[@MP-vd1ck]

Wait until you find what a nightmare Tesla is they are the apple of cars Do a repair without their permission they will disable your car

[@haruyanto8085]

You'll love NIO then

[@micahclark4021]

So what do u do with the old battery

[@anthonymarquez6493]

I would want to switch out the batteries especially if you go on a road trip.

[@jimbohalsey8374]

I would never want to do that. Nobody takes care of their stuff like I do. Plus I have been burned by warranties saying we promise this or that.

[@jimbohalsey8374]

Walmart screwed me on a mini refrigerator warranty for example. Fridge started incredibly loud popping noises at night. They said it wasn't covered.

[@medoomedoo1634]

You must purchase a Tesla especially it has low cost maintenance compared to gas cars.

[@triadwarfare]

@@medoomedoo1634 sure it's low maintenance, but when you do need to do maintenance to it, you'll find out it's pretty hard as Teslas are made to be disposable and non-modular

[@medoomedoo1634]

@@triadwarfare What's i know that electric motor doesn't need to renewal pieces regularly in opposite of gas motor

[@sreenath1987]

Normal charging every night or while parked at the office is the way to go. Fast charging for every other instance... which I believe could be limited. If you are going offroad for a long time... get an ICE!

[@madriditunes7021]

Like gasoline..... 😂 But you replace your entire tank. 🤣🤣🤣

[@alejandromeneses7735]

They talk about lesser stress on the battery by charging slowly, but at the same time. all those modules need to be ready at 100% SOC waiting for a customer. THAT is real stress on the cells!

[@christophercorona4285]

Still less stress than forcing it to charge faster

[@alejandromeneses7735]

@@christophercorona4285 sorry, not true. The negative effects of fast charging can be overcome with advanced chemistries but 100% SOC is more detrimental unless you have a significantly higher unused overhead that otherwise needed when the cells are kept mostly under 80%. This increases cost, volume and weight making a full charge after swapping smaller in kWh that a partial charge at high rate of charge. Also you never charge at high currents until full, ever.

[@verntigo]

Range anxiety is a problem for home owners with an EV. Charge time anxiety is what apartment tenants with an EV feel.

[@joeys.1613]

Boy do I know that anxiety…😬 My Leaf has a relatively short range that makes commuting to work a bit more stressful than with an ICE. Guess here’s to saving the planet 🌎🍻

[@justsomeguy934]

@@joeys.1613 Time for you to upgrade to a car with more range.

[@joeys.1613]

@@justsomeguy934 absolutely. I think I’ll always hang onto this 1st gen leaf, but very excited about what the future has to hold for these up and coming EVs releasing soon. I have a feeling next year will be a great time to upgrade.

[@justsomeguy934]

@@joeys.1613 The 1st gen Leaf, I believe, is the cheapest automobile to operate in the USA. It can actually pay for itself in fuel savings, especially if you can buy one off-lease at a low price. If your Leaf meets your needs, keep it. If you need more range, the 64kW model is a great improvement. If you might need a small sedan later in life (e.g., a child getting a driver's license), the Leaf fits that bill perfectly.

[@joeys.1613]

@@justsomeguy934 these things are great. 65k miles and it still drives like new. Maybe one day I’ll upgrade the battery in it as costs keep lowering to do so. Keep this thing going for another 10 years. Reduce, reuse, recycle ♻️

[@robm8947]

Imagine how unreliable these charging stations will be with all their sensors and moving parts. A leaf blows in and station is down for a week. At any one time, two out of three will be inoperable. Compare to a fast charging station with no moving parts, no maintenance costs, no wait time. Or a plug in your own garage/warehouse to slow charge overnight. How can they find employees that believe in this vision? Presumably all working for stock in the hope that someone will buy them out and repurpose whatever tech/experience they might have developed before the investors cut their losses and let the company enter bankruptcy.

[@Kangenpower7]

Funny, I was watching a review of Rivian, and they had to pull into three chargers before they found one that actually worked. Same with a Lightning, they where able to get a 2 minute charge on two chargers, then the third one they tried gave them 150 KW per hour for an hour to fill the battery for about $14. Much less expensive than filling the gas trucks used in the same road test.

[@Chadman03elantra]

News flash - the automobile you drive everyday is nothing but "sensors and moving parts". They seem to work pretty well most of the time.

[@tubegilchrist]

Are the swapping batteries also rechargeable at home?

[@oaihothachsquest255]

For an emergency drive, swap is the best way and for a pleasure drive, charging is the best way.

[@byedesign2000]

Just imagine if all the car manufacturers back then were making their own fuels.

[@BattousaiHBr]

i know what youre trying to say, but all EVs also use the same electricity

[@BattousaiHBr]

@Allen Loser im not sure what you're trying to argue here... OP said "imagine if fuels were incompatible", alluding that EV fuel is incompatible, except it isn't (electricity).

[@BattousaiHBr]

@Allen Loser and what exactly do you think he was trying to say with that?

[@BattousaiHBr]

@Allen Loser well im sorry, if that's what OP meant then that's not what i understood. but anyway, idk why you went on about me trying to claim that batteries are superior to fossil fuels since i never even touched the subject.

[@byedesign2000]

@@BattousaiHBr for the ev cars to really takeoff, I think we need standard batteries, where we can charge anywhere, just like we can fill up the tank at any gas stations. Maybe that will happen soon when the mainstream big car manufacturers catch up with tesla.

[@darer7158]

I don't see how this could become a viable everyday-consumer's solution to charging, especially in the US.

[@reginald7214]

You'd probably need to live where you can't home charge.

[@momentary_]

Yeah, this will only replace charging stations, but not home charging. This is not really a big change.

[@markuseberlein3394]

How long does it take to charge a battery in the ample station and when are not enough battieries available because they are still being charged?

[@nairnavneet]

what cars can this support? And how do you deal with battery packs are structural components of the car itself?

[@abdulkarim6664]

Well it's not upto manufacturers really, it depends on how much consumers love the idea of swaps. Automakers will have to find a way just like that had to when the world was starting to move to electric. The real threat to the likes of Ample, however, is the speed of traditional charging. The best selling point for swappers will be whether this model improves the sustainability of charging.

[@perrychrispy1]

This battery swapping will become obsolete soon enough with the advent of faster charging technology on the horizon.

[@tycooperaow]

Not to mention if Solid state batteries ever become a reality

[@kendale8331]

I disagree. Battery swapping allows you to have an older electric car but keep up to date with an ever changing electric battery technology.

[@qinby1182]

Battery swapping IS A DUMB IDEA. Sounds "Clever" BUT Batteries is the MOST EXPENSIVE part of an EV AND there is AND WILL BE a battery shortage for the foreseable future. With battery swapping you need MORE BATTERIES. Most cars should be able to charge while parked so more chargers are needed, swapping is unecessary.

[@tycooperaow]

@@kendale8331 But most people would lease an EV so they stay up to date with latest tech. It doesn't make sense to buy an EV really.

[@chrisE815]

@@kendale8331 I hope you're right but I think a lot of these EVs will just be designed to be disposable.

[@mews56]

Does or is Ample using or developing blade modular batteries? To keep up with the capacity of the competition

[@jclaytoncabral5106]

Back in the mid 90's we changed the batteries on our Crown forklifts at AT&the warehouse. It required a big machine with electrictro-magnets.

[@831Adventures]

I hope this tech keep going. I need this for my 2022 f150 lightning

[@reginald7214]

That would be cool!

[@justinchapman1001]

Yeah can't wait to get my hands on one.

[@mandalmandal4593]

Here is the thing, electric cars are already expensive, and the fact that we don't need fuel cost is a big reason people are buying these cars, so we don't need to spend money on swapping, we can just charge it at home cheaper.

[@id10t98]

if you are on a cross country trip it makes it difficult to charge at home every night.

[@reginald7214]

Sure. These are not for people with hone charging.

[@RatherBePrivateThanTell]

Absolutely brilliant!! Big things to happen here!!

[@maddog2314]

I do this swapping with my phone and it's lit. Just takes a min to turn off, swap and turn on.

[@bftjoe]

But it still causes wear and tear on battery connection.

[@haystak1]

Oh great now I have to keep changing the time on my clock

[@blshouse]

Nope, there is a separate 12v battery that handles the normal electrical system in the car. The EV battery is mainly for the electric motor. You'll only have to reset the clock when that 12v battery dies, just like in a gas or diesel car.

[@shreyanshvalentino]

Battery is a depreciating asset, which company would like to sell the car but own the battery?

[@GK-op4oc]

Agreed. But imagine if swappable packs enabled cars to be purchased with a 1/4 or 1/3 pack and add 1-3 battery packs for the occasional longer range use? I would happily pay less for an EV for 1/4 or 1/3 range as my use case is a 10 minute round-trip commute. Even a 100 mile round-trip commute needs only 1/3 of the Tesla Model 3 365 mile range. With a lower vehicle weight, the range for a 1/4 or 1/3 pack battery would increase somewhat.

[@WillMoxonFloatsOnOil]

the lady at @14:38 seen the camera and got creeped out fer sure... so funny to see them use the clip anyway lol

[@charliedbq]

How about swapping (or charge) Supercapacitors? Smaller, Quick charge/discharge then charge the battery slowly while driving.

[@levenkay4468]

A civil question deserves a civil answer, so here it is: "No".

[@4409rjf]

Standardize the size and call it maybe triple D "DDD" just like my remote control cars. Or a tow along battery that you hitch and swap.

[@nikhilchhabra]

Reminds me of modular phones. where you change/upgrade camera,speakers etc. Seemed exciting initially. But don't know what happened to them.

[@larslysdahl4586]

Largest issue with battery swapping, which wasn’t mentioned here, is that you will need more than one battery per car. For an auto maker the largest constraint to ramp production is the battery supply. Then it doesn’t make sense to use a large share of the batteries for backups. Also the reason Nio is doing this in China is government incentives.

[@supremebeing7834]

When they said battery swapping I thought of engine swapping.. like putting a Tesla battery in a leaf of egolf lol

[@reginald7214]

😆🤣😂

[@Zreknarf]

@Allen Loser i mean you'd have more wattage to play with to "overclock" the motors, probably destroy them pretty quickly though

[@Zreknarf]

similarly changing the motors without changing the battery probably wouldn't have the desired effect if the motors aren't getting enough juice

[@Zreknarf]

@Allen Loser you don't necessarily have to replace the engine, just use a more potent fuel, i.e nitrous oxide

[@Zreknarf]

@Allen Loser but you're right that's a huge difference in weight so you'd probably just want to connect more of the golf cells in series

[@grambo1980]

Not really a great solution. Might be okay for people who live in apartments until they start to get charging stations

[@lanceareadbhar]

I think this could make sense for people in apartments and also for fleets of cars for Amazon or Uber. It doesn't make much sense if you can charge at home or at work. Fewer cars needing a charging station would be nice since that is where the US is severely lacking.

[@kevinwest3274]

So how do you know if you are getting a good batter back?

[@ericl3272]

As long as you can still charge it at home or at a normal charging station I think it is a good idea

[@dummyxl]

10 minutes? Nio does this in 3 minutes. Already old tech.

[@dummyxl]

@Sky Trader true but not completely. Other manufacturers can use nio charging stations if they want to.

[@Kubush1]

Nio will not succeed in America. Government does not want China spying and tracking citizens.

[@allsportsexpert]

@@dummyxl You mean other manufacturers have to use the same NIO battery design if they want to use NIO swapping stations, of course, with a financial agreement also. The car battery is not universal, neither are cell phone chargers although they are getting better.

[@dummyxl]

@@Kubush1 maybe, i think they will, there are already pilots with Chinese tech on the road in us. But beside that the world is bigger than the us. So i don't think nio really care.

[@googlebanmetoomuch2601]

@@Kubush1 spying? 60% of America's goods from China?🤣 Why do you believe propaganda and the invisible enemy?🤔

[@bullyhomestead7232]

He does not speak for me. I would love swapping. I remember this from years ago!!

[@ultrastoat3298]

It is a dumb idea and those that try it will go bankrupt doing it.

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@ultrastoat3298 Not with modern and fast robotics. It will only develop and progress. Unless there is some kind of conspiracy to stop them from happening. Look at hand-held cordless drills. These are a perfect analogy. They have developed and progressed substantially and will continue to do so.

[@ultrastoat3298]

@@jamesmedina2062 it’s not a perfect analogy lol. You don’t have to go to take your drill to Home Depot when it’s dead, put your drill in a box, and have a robot swap its battery, then go back home. It’s a dumb idea, and it will get abandoned, I guarantee it. 1) forces manufactures to build extra and have sit idle the most expensive part of the car 2) the up front cost for these stations are horrendous 3) you will have a mix of standards across brands which will evolve over time meaning you have to go to the RIGHT station, these stations actually have lower throughputs than even medium sized supercharger locations, and they are betting that fast charging doesn’t get any better than it is today and I bet the cyber truck can put on 300 miles in 20 minutes. This is DOA. Tesla tried it like 8 years ago, saw it was dumb and killed it before it killed them. They are way smarter than theses guys. Even the niche use cases for this probably isn’t enough to sustain it.

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@ultrastoat3298 We go to great lengths to ship oil and fuel and destroy entire regions with fuel spills. This is just another way to refuel and its way better than hauling petrol around or spilling it from pipelines. Hopefully this becomes common because at least half of all people with batteries and no liquid fuel could use it. It solves lots of problems.

[@bullyhomestead7232]

@@ultrastoat3298 you are being stupid though. its for emergency charges. If you need to fill up before going far you can by swapping. I would recommend charging at home slowly and each night that way you are pretty safe but I would be okay with swapping my battery if I need to make an impromptu 250 mile drive somewhere. Just because YOU don't see the benefit doesn't mean there isn't one! (:

[@fei8085]

Several points I am spectacle about battery swap . It seems more of marketing. Main reason ppl excited about swap 1. Can “upgrade” their battery any time. 2. Get a full charge like gas station time-wise. For 1, actually it is not not too difficult to upgrade your battery even without swap. The only useful case is you can rent a bigger battery occasionally while rest of time rent a smaller pack so ideally you may “save” some money if you are not driving a lot. Otherwise it should be a regular maintenance job to replace your battery for cars does not support swap (unless they are horribly designed). For 2, it only works if swap station can scale like gas, I mean not only number of station wise, but also pumps per station wise. Swap requires level of automation far more advanced than gas pumps and makes it much more expensive to have swap slots vs pumps per gas pool. If you go to a station it has 1 or 2 swap slots, each takes 5 mins (2-3 mins for swap and rest for park in drive out). It easier gets more than 15 mins with 10 cars ahead of you. Not mentioning max batteries per station and the maintenance of them. Fast charge station on the other hand, feels to me much easier to built and maintained. And delivers a 15 mins full charge is promising with potentials for less. The drawback of swaps is now your car has to be limited design to support battery swap, so it may not be optimized towards max capacity/load balance/economics. Plus, All new models have such limitations. It is very large overhead on rolling out new models.

[@panzeyman]

Great also for potential owners living in apartments/condos whose parking lots usually do not have easy access to charging points or plug points.

[@kennyg1358]

There will be a battery supply shortage for years. Having hundreds of thousands of batteries waiting to be swapped is ridiculous.

[@GK-op4oc]

Agreed. The 10-20 year ramp-up of EVs is currently constrained by the mining of new battery material. Though, perhaps the ramp-up can be eased by including EVs with 1/8 (40 miles) or 1/4 (80 mile) batteries. For the days needing a longer range, rent battery packs. The risk is that there won't be enough batteries to swap and then fall back on charging a battery that costs much more to rent. Swappable battery packs may also enable the use of less dense battery technology or aged cells at a much lower cost.

[@GK-op4oc]

"There will be a battery supply shortage for years" What if the packs are made with a lower power density/less battery material or just fewer top-density cells ? The swapping frequency would be higher, but less battery material would be needed overall. This kills the time advantage of swapping, but solves the manufacturing battery constraint by perhaps halving the amount of battery material needed as the EV industry ramps up. Double the cars could be made at a much lower price point.

[@kennyg1358]

@@GK-op4oc I could see that working well for motorcycles in Africa and India especially.

[@ThreepwoodFan]

This makes no sense. And Tesla has scrapped that concept.

[@fez877]

A mistake by Elon. A supercharger takes up too much space and people leave their cars to charge for hours. A swapping station will be idea.

[@ThreepwoodFan]

@@fez877 for hours? Dude it takes like 25mins to go from empty to 80%. And if you don't take a 30mins break after a 500km drive there's seriously something wrong with u.

[@Autonova]

Swapping is superior in so many ways. As the tech develops I can imagine the swap taking less than a minute.

[@rogerpozzi1060]

How do they manage battery thermal issues?

[@phreewill]

safety, 1 bad driver with a damage battery can cause real destruction.

[@Reincarnatedmakaveli]

This is a amazing concept and will boom in city centre areas where apartments are rife! Don't worry see Tesla & others offering Baas soon

[@HavokBWR]

Its really not a good idea. My city is already connecting ev charging stations into streetlamps for people who dont have a garage. Tesla is going to have way better range with their integrated structural battery pack than any modular EV. Teslas batteries are already cheaper, smaller, and go farther than the competition and it just getting better. How many battery packs will these swapping stations need to have on hand in a city in order to make sure people arent sitting around waiting for a pack to finish charging before it gets swapped into their car? A battery is the most expensive part of an EV and they want to have thousands of these just sitting around when the world is already battery constrained. Each one of these places are going to cost millions in battery's and they will need to be all over the city and highway, otherwise youll be driving out of your way to get a swap, negating most of the benefits. They mentioned using them as grid energy systems, but that will degrade the battery life and tesla is already doing this grid battery powered energy storage with cheaper batteries that dont need to be small or light.

[@saulgoodman2018]

@@HavokBWR Shut up Elon fan boy.

[@IonorReasSpamGenerator]

Once you will able to charge during shopping, this idea will just die, also if you have a solar panel on roof of your car like some Prius variants and not traveling that far during 5 day work week as often happens in Europe for people living in the cities, you may not even need any additional charging at all...

[@bhavyanshsabharwal9029]

​@@saulgoodman2018 lol. He gives a well-thought-out, nicely phrased argument. And the best you can come up with is "Shut up Elon fanboy"? If you want to have an actual discussion, tell him what parts you disagree with. What you think is the future with battery swap. Otherwise, don't waste everyone's time, please.

[@saulgoodman2018]

@@bhavyanshsabharwal9029 you can tell when some is a Tesla fan boy. They don’t want to hear about anything else. Nothing wrong with swapping batteries. Just talking about how good Tesla batteries are, are not any argument in why no one can do a battery swap.

[@Kangenpower7]

My wife bought a 2011 Leaf, but it's battery was very low range. If I had known this was a option, we might have kept the car, but sold it to a student, who was OK with the 45 mile range! And think of this advantage, in 3 years, you might be able to get a larger capacity battery pack, where this year it might be a smaller capacity per battery. It looks like they put two batteries in each car, maybe more or less. Funny how the youtube video does not list the manufactures supported, but they showed a Nissan Leaf going into the swap station. I would want to charge at home most days, and then swap when the capacity is lower (say every 6 months) or when taking a long drive someplace, where I don't want to recharge along the way. I own a Ford Plug in hybrid, with a 15 mile EV range and 410 on 10 gallons of gas range.

[@Jakecooks]

the answer will be warp charging speeds not swaps, this will cause a much larger footprint, more maintenance etc. If they could also make some sort of charger built into a car, as the wheels spin it produces current and recharges the batteries.

[@reginald7214]

Chargers take up way more room. Just like a gas station takes up way more room. But I agree with you all the same.

[@amoltandon2900]

Let's be honest, this is never going to work on a large-scale unless consumer EV batteries are standardized. And that's not going to happen.

[@UltimateAlgorithm]

It can happen, some countries already standardize EV plugs. So depends on the regulators.

[@tennislite]

I have the same question. Seems more difficult to standardize a battery.

[@DerSnipOr]

@@UltimateAlgorithm EV plugs are something completely different. This is like trying to standardize ICE engines. The battery, cooling and heating etc is what differs from each battery pack to the other. Not capacity or plugs are the issue...

[@UltimateAlgorithm]

@@DerSnipOr I mean D, C, AA, AAA, AAAA and 9-Volt batteries are standardized, and they support quick battery swapping. So even if there are slim chance they could be standardized. Also if regulators in China for example push for standardization, I don't think manufacturers will reject it.

[@DerSnipOr]

@@UltimateAlgorithm You are right, but the car power batteries are something completely different. You have a cell cooling and cell balancing system. Also the battery with its housing is a structural component of the car. The size, weight and place of the battery defines the dynamic behavior of the car. Height of center of gravity -> dynamic load shift between wheels while accelerating/branking. All in all it is abit like batteries in smartphones, they are also not standardized because of packaging and design.

[@catarinav7947]

My tesla adds 140 miles in 10 minutes of charging... Think I'll just charge the battery.

[@Jason608]

My Leaf charges much slower on L3, something like 30 miles in 10 mins. However, the vast majority of cases I'm L2 charging in my garage, so I'd hate to swap my battery out once every couple of months when I (rarely) travel farther and roll the dice on getting a degraded cell that I'd have to live with for a couple of months until the next time I swap. This is exactly why Tesla bagged their battery swap idea. Owners don't want it, just as the video points out.

[@Explodingbunny93]

So you're perfectly fine having your battery last far less time?

[@gargalash9191]

@@Explodingbunny93 300k-500k miles not enough?

[@catarinav7947]

@@Explodingbunny93 I've done supercharging over 100 times, doesn't seem to be affecting the range any more than expected. If you hang on cars for a long time (like 10 years or longer then yes it would probably be better). But as someone that intends to get a new car at least every 5 years, it doesn't matter. Also worth remembering that the long term doesn't really matter, in 10 years batteries will advance so much that it's not important.

[@clownskill11]

@@catarinav7947 bro your talking to people who buy kias they’re gunna hold on to that car till battery bubbles and dynamo wears out

[@De4thG0d]

Doesn’t adding modularity add bulk and weight and a smaller battery capacity

[@DougGrinbergs]

For fleets, how much space and cash for enough spare batteries?

[@canlelola]

With EV's I've always seen the battery as the weakest point, at least for long term. This if done correctly, would be beneficial... I'm coming from the used mobile and laptop area, battery's are a main failing point.

[@akhilpavithran3392]

13:14 👱‍♀️ “Have YOU talked to Elon Musk? Is he interested in Ample?” “He hasn’t called US yet 😎” Said like a real boss 💪🏼

[@alberthiggins383]

in terms of planning when to charge the batteries surely you could just save the extra cost and buy additional batteries for the charging station..or have a power line to a larger industrial battery offsite?

[@GK-op4oc]

Maybe in 10+ years. Ample is selling charging and battery swaps for roughly the same price as buying the battery and charging overnight in your home or at a Tesla Supercharger. Provided there are supercharging stations that charge 80% in 30 minutes (a typical fill-up), pack swaps will not work until there are enough batteries in system after 10+ years.