Can Graves and The Shadow Company Be Redeemed?

[@t0d_d]

graves is like a chihuahua: they are like annoying rats but their owners love them more than anything else. in conclusion: he good

[@BranWolfYT]

😂😂😂

[@Deathmare235]

You’re saying the 141 are his owners?

[@NurseAmamiya]

Like Shepherd said: He's a dog with a bone

[@t0d_d]

@@Deathmare235 I'm referring to Graves being called Sheperd's boy on a leash but since Sheperd is dead we just gotta hope Activision hires good writers.

[@Deathmare235]

@@t0d_d graves isn’t only loyal to shepherd, he was with the Russians before

[@seth_fitzgerald]

I was gonna say in the previous video under Captain Price that in the mission Alone, we see that Graves never wanted to betray TF141 but he had no choice because he was ordered to do so, we hear specifically from two Shadows that they were not comfortable with betraying them, and they were definitely having doubts about it. One Shadow shows respect for them by recognizing their skills and another Shadow believes that if they had the opportunity to talk and come to a common ground, things would work out. Graves is the most intriguing and interesting character in the whole cod universe because the thing about him you can see that he is an American patriot through and through. He got his experience with the military, and he felt dissatisfied with how things were done because there was a ton of red tape and barriers in the military, which kept him from getting things done, which is why he founded the PMC, so you can see that he is willing to do the right thing and he follows his orders but overall personally he is against doing things that he knows that are wrong and he would never try to jeopardize the mission or his soldiers

[@BranWolfYT]

I agree with this that's very true

[@TheOminousBlade]

Yeah, I didn’t realize it playing the campaign but graves is lawful neutral, he does what he is told and doesn’t question it. You can also kinda hear it in his voice when he is betraying tf141. It doesn’t sound like something he is doing with full intent or at times even something he wants to do. He did kinda power trip at the end with the tank but by then he probably convinced himself that it was a good thing.

[@CommanderGraves]

I wouldn’t pin Graves as a narcissist, I was raised by a therapist who had a narcissistic father and she always explained it to me. A narcissist is someone who presents themselves as likable and manipulated people into liking them until they just drop who they are. Also only they matter no matter what. Graves doesn’t try super hard to present himself as likable I honestly think he even tries harder to appear as a rude meathead. He also does seem to care about Shadows and I don’t see him particularly defending only himself. I honestly would not say he’s a narcissist, especially since he did originally join the Marines and only then change his mind. He clearly though he could do better, and acted on it, not out of narcissism but out of a sort of twisted patriotism

[@BranWolfYT]

Would you play COD revolving around Graves and The Shadow Company?

[@knightmareslayer1386]

definitely

[@datnguyen-ob6gn]

possibly

[@knightmareslayer1386]

Call of Duty: Contractor Warfare. Would be a game where you’d play both Konni & Shadow.

[@BranWolfYT]

@Nikolaievich9837 that would be interesting

[@Deathmare235]

@Nikolaievich9837that would be boring, especially konni

[@antoniusp3295]

Character-wise, Graves founded that PMC likely out of disillusionment with the standard Chain of Command and RoE. He likes getting shit DONE, and simultaneously getting to enact a sort of frontier justice that he can't do otherwise. In my eyes, the man didn't want to hurt TF141; he did in fact try to merely incarcerate the Mexican SF guys and part ways peacefully. As for the frontier justice, while an atrocity from a legal standpoint, he *did* go after the Cartel quite viciously. TL:DR I don't think Graves and the Shadows are evil, nor that they're merely a blunt instrument wielded by the highest bidder. With the right influence from people like TF141, they could very well be redeemed. And you're damn skippy that Activision has an opportunity here.

[@Deathmare235]

There’s no way you’re telling me detaining a bunch of Mexicans by an American was peaceful

[@a.c.e7407]

We won't get that. They had a chance, and blew it. We should have had Shadow on our side when taking the war to Konni. I can just imagine Ghost even leading part of Shadow and growing to trust Graves. Though that is wishful thinking, on the other hand Ghost seems like the type of guy who when picking up a grudge, he will not let go until the day he dies. He HATES Shadow.

[@deandanielson8950]

Dude how can you say he can be redeemed he killed innocent people aside the cartel most of the people were parents and took over the base and the Mexican army

[@Deathmare235]

@@a.c.e7407 he likes shadow now especially since IW want them to forget the betrayal even happened

[@redthewifeyhunter4034]

Graves genuinely cares. It’s just people like Sheperd that gets in the way of it all. Sheperd only does things for recognition. Graves does it for knowing he’s doing things right. It’s why he is super nice to Alex, Farah, and 141 in MWIII. 141 may not like him but it’s obvious Farah understood why he betrayed 141 and forgave him for that. Farah had every opportunity to say: “I don’t want your help. You betrayed my friends.” Instead she goes: “Yeah what he did was wrong, but he’s been really helpful and I still trust him.”

[@bystander2009]

If they make MWIV, I want Graves to be a protagonist and he actually does kill Makarov.

[@BigMam-zv6ld]

Whole idea of his pmc is to get shit done. Which he did. While the methods weren’t the most legal there is a reason why they get black checks from general shepherd to carry out ops that otherwise would need congressional and other government department approval. Graves is an easily redeemable character if you consider his position. He was ordered originally to kill 141 but instead offered them a peaceful leave. Yes, he incarcerated mexican SF and forcefully occupied the compound but Graves ultimately was following orders just like he learned during his service and to set an example for his men.

[@masterpunk7205]

Graves was just a tool for Shepherd to use. He highly showed care to his allies and troops including Farah and 141. No one is beyond redemption. I believe that Graves and shadow company can be redeemed for following Shepherd's orders. Ever since the convoy was attacked by Konni, Shepherd refused to send support to save Graves' men. Graves testified to the congress that he was ordered by Shepherd to fire on Soap and Ghost to tie up loose ends. It may be clear that Graves was waiting for the right moment to betray Shepherd. Graves was free to act without a leash. He would continue his fight against Makarov, with help of ULF, and maybe team up with Price and 141. Together as one once again. I never truly see Graves and Shadow Company as enemies. I believe they deserve a second chance to do the right thing to earn their redemption.

[@ProjectGameVerse]

The betrayal never should have happened in the first place. I feel that it was just shoehorned and thrown together without understand the original story of Shadow Company and why they betrayed 141 in the first place. I think Graves had reason to be suspicious of Alejandro and Valeria. What should have happened in the alone cutscene is that the remnants of the Cartel and Mexican Army should have attacked them, took Graves hostage and Alejandro leaving Soap and Ghost to fight off the cartel hunting them down in a crowded city where the people are on the Cartel's side and will try to turn you in for the Cartel and the corrupt Mexican Army

[@Ihvnoname]

This is long but I'd appreciate if you read my theory: Graves will admit to the remaining members of 141 that opening fire on them in Mexico on Shepherd's orders was a mistake which will make Ghost angry and try to outright kill Graves but Price will stop him. Graves will say he was just following orders and he put two and two together and come to the realization that Shepherd would betray him in the future (which is somewhat implied by Shepherd disrespecting Graves behind his back by calling him a dog with a bone and putting him "on a leash") due to the fact that Shepherd couldn't be bothered to send air support for Shadow when they were ambushed by Konni but had all the time in the world to send missiles to the ULF. Said missiles that Shepherd was scolding Shadow Company for losing because they were ambushed by Konni by Shepherd's phony intel which shows that Shepherd only sees Graves as a tool instead of an Ally. Knowing Graves' character that must have really stuck with him. Price and Graves will make a deal to be uneasy allies and both will watch each other intensely for any slip up as an excuse to start shooting at one another but if that doesn't happen then they will go their own separate ways. Graves would definitely insert himself in the 141-Konni war because he ordered the gunner in his gunship to open fire on the chopper that Makarov was supposedly in and called it a day but since they didn't actually kill Mak, Mak kills Soap and since Graves tried to kill Soap in Las Almas in a tank while shit talking him by saying things like he would forget where he buried Soap within a week, he probably feels immense guilt so He'll think killing Makarov will wipe the blood of his hands. It was shown that he really didn't want to kill 141 in the first place but now that one of them is at the hands of a terrorist Graves thought he took care of would make him try his hardest to be on good terms with Price.

[@BranWolfYT]

Good theory and it makes good sense to me!

[@Deathmare235]

Wouldn’t it make more sense for price to nearly kill his but ghost stops him since price never worked with him

[@Deathmare235]

Wasn’t graves the one who betrayed 141, shepherd never told them to do it also shepherd was right graves had to leave his men, no matter what there’s no saving them also a nice parallel to the first mission in the reboot where Laswell has the same thoughts as shepherd

[@a.c.e7407]

@@Deathmare235 I feel Gaz would stop him. Graves is definitely on Price's "terminal" list. Because Shepherd and him failed to properly confirm Makarov's death, which seems like an absolute amateur mistake - if I was there, I would search EVERYWHERE out of fear of him coming back, like I would even look in the closets and behind the curtains. I think Price would start beating the hell out of him, with Ghost just watching in cold indifference and muffled rage, and Gaz will break them up as he seems to now be the voice of reason.

[@a.c.e7407]

Price has officially become unhinged, so he won't stop anyone from killing the people on his terminal list. My bet is that he actually goes after Graves right after, if not interrupted by SAS and Marines starting to hunt him down as a fugitive. I can imagine Graves helping him out with an extraction with the help of Gaz and Ghost, and him just walking up to Graves and punching him as Graves is being casual and bragging how he saved them and he's welcome. If 141 becomes disavowed, Graves and Shadow will likely be a key player in the war against Konni - so much for a proper WW3 huh.

[@Foxster_13]

I feel that Graves and his Shadows are redeemable, and I feel like Season 5 in MW2, when it's revealed he survived and now wishes to work Farah and the ULF, which we see at the start of MW3 where Shepherd gave the ULF the same missiles in MW2, using Shadow Company. I also believe that Graves and maybe even Shepherd are/were trying to seek redemption by doing this due to the screw up in MW2. Another thing to point out is that Farah and the ULF seem to see Graves and Shadow Company as allies which may mean that they are off limits to Price and the rest of TF 141 and likely won't share the same fate as Shepherd, unless Price wants to risk his friendship with Farah.

[@a.c.e7407]

Shepherd was seeking a career redemption, aka, he wanted glory. He never cared about doing the right thing, nor the hard thing. He always just ditched when the going got hard. Shadow were still his hired work, so they are in it for the money, and getting the license to do bad things. Farah's character was fucked in MW3. She went from an honest-to-god good person to yet another politician. It ruined her character, and in MW3 she was more of a bitch for me than a good character. She had cold indifference to the assassination attempt on the very men who liberated her country, and almost died doing it. She didn't even bother to come to UK to help fight Konni. Every time 141 goes out with Farah, besides MW2, it's been to help her, and fix her mistakes. In MW 2019, it was fine, that was the arc, but MW3 was more of Farah selfishly just going to get her missiles and if not just to say it wasn't us, but we don't give a shit either. ULF never really needed missiles, they needed good publicity, they needed proper infrastructure, they needed a country. Shepherd could have negotiated to set up bases in Urzikstan to finally drive out AQ. Shadow could have helped 141 go after Hassan instead of taking a native force hostage in their own base - I still don't get how Mexico didn't ban US forces from operating there. If the writers are smart, they should actually have Price start distancing himself from Farah. Such a shame though, she was quite enjoyable in the first two.

[@Deathmare235]

@@a.c.e7407 shepherd was doing the right thing, he was the only one who helped the ULF, without him they lost a key part of their support unless shepherd’s plan worked and the us are allied with the ULF again

[@Deathmare235]

@@a.c.e7407 they should’ve showed the ULF actually using the missiles, like maybe in Urzikstan when they’re fighting konni they use their missiles against them in a mission

[@Error-000]

Graves never really wanted to betray TF141, you can see from his dialog, he warns them and asks them to settle things without violence. So he did not just turn on them randomly, it was an order from people paying him. Now did he cross a bit of a line with the genocide of Las Almas people, hell yes and that's more of a moral and war crime thing to discus in the same way you can say TF141 surely did some morally gray things to get things done (Price and Gaz interrogating a terrorist by bringing his family and threatening to shoot civilians to get intel). But if we are going purely on betrayal, he did not want to do it. So in a way he can get back from it, now the question is how. I predict he will be the one who will help in fighting makarov and his PMC like delta force did in original MW series. Price will for sure have a scene where he will need Graves to do something.

[@Deathmare235]

Aren’t they already the good guys, they’ve been hunting down konni in DMZ and warzone 3

[@BranWolfYT]

I'd like to see them be the focus for a game, but yeah, they've been fighting konni for a while now

[@forgeagrizzly3030]

There's story in Warzone 3?

[@Deathmare235]

@@forgeagrizzly3030 barely

[@a.c.e7407]

Define good. Shepherd was a petty, narcissistic politician who sacrificed countless lives for momentary glory. Was he a "good guy" simply because he was fighting Konni? Reasons matter. Shadow is the same. Fighting the right cause for the wrong reasons.

[@a.c.e7407]

@@forgeagrizzly3030 No, not really. It's just them flexing weird cosmetics.

[@thomasbailey-ob4is]

imo call of duty could do what the IAA did in gta 4. Shadow company hands over some sort of target that 141 needs, slowly working both organisations trust back up and then eventually they go back to fully trusting eachother. At the end, shadow company and 141 could end up fighting makarov together as one, like how 141 turned to ghost team with Alejandro

[@Bonkbork]

In MW4, Price and Laswell will rely on his help again.

[@gatorkid3653]

Here me out: Some shadows join 141. They want to bury the hatchet and offer their skills to help catch Makarov, could even have it so Graves handpicked these soldiers. The names? Frost, Sandman, Grinch, Truck and even Roach.

[@Deathmare235]

They’d be allied but not join them also why would delta force and roach be with shadow company

[@gatorkid3653]

@@Deathmare235 Considering we haven’t seen Delta Force with 141 at all, it makes me think they might not go with that route. Plus, it would give time for those characters to marinate instead of having the for one game and killing them off *stares at soap*

[@EpicGamingKid245]

when graves said "find him" i noticed something that i didn't notice while i was playing the game or maybe it was lighting but when he said it he looked kinda dissapointed for what he did 4:58

[@Margin_of_Mirage]

Awesome video!

[@BranWolfYT]

Thank you!

[@EddieMendoza-bd1us]

Graves is single handedly the best character we've had in COD in a long time, Warren Cole, was absolutely the right choice and the perfect choice for Phillip Graves. A redemption arc would absolutely be the way to go. Graves truly adds a cool factor to the game, plus that's literally me

[@somethingunder]

Naahh after the forced William Afton "I always come back" sort of thing in that tank I don't think they'll have a decent redemption

[@elperrodelautumo7511]

My gta verse take on Graves and his shadows. Graves was a former marine who foresaw the collapsing old Umbra PMC. That he would buy the falling stocks of Umbra and co own part of the stock to form Shadow Company PMC with his business partners. However. He isn’t a businessman when it comes to finances. He’s more soldier and despite the wrong business mistakes, shadow soldiers loves Graves. Even Lerch earned his pmc badge by Graves because of his experience and how he relates to post marine life. Graves business partners have more shady business behind the scenes. It seems that conflicts aren’t being relevant. Because it’s set in post war peace time. But also there’s some business with corporations for their security work as well as more criminal syndicates shake ups. Like even doing business with drug cartels and mafias. This would be the spark of schism within the shadow company. Even Graves favoritism of Task Force 141 creates a schism for with graves partners want to oust Graves out of his CEO position. And somehow the operations with San Sombrero would give the rogue shadows to cause a false flag attack to make America and Shadow Company war relevant. Even if Aquila and the rest of Chelonia turns into a war zone and allows the us military to occupy it because Aquila went neutral after 2008 with Chinas partnership as well as maintain appeasement for the China backed South American Federation.

[@elperrodelautumo7511]

Because Aquila used to be the most dominant nation of the former Confederate States of Chelonia. A spiritual successor of the former Confederate states of America. After the use of civil war ended with the Union being helped by Haitians, far northerners and Mexican conscripts, a few southerners knew the civil war was a lost cause and formed their own nation with some tribal help. After the civil war ended; the southerners went to their new country: Aquila and used southern culture to push slavery. Pushing the slaves to work on the fields. But it wasn’t meant to last. But however. They evolved their black chattel slavery into some form of hierarchy. Into racial segregation. To keep the poor in line. Instead of rebelling against the government. While they allowed some white mestizos and Hispanics as the whites equals. And later the Filipino immigrants who would turn this into their new Filipinas homeland. After the Spanish American war ended. But with the Spanish American war. Aquila took over Guarma island. And the myriad islands. And later San Sombrero because San Sombrero had a revolution and Abraham Reyes tyrant rule gave the excuse for Aquila to invade San Sombrero and soon annexed San Sombrero into a new federation. Confederate states of Chelonia. Aquila was the dominant nation that ruled all of Chelonia. The collapse of the confederate states allowed San Sombrero, Myriad Islands. And Guarma to become new nations. Chelonia splintered. Aquila had western states that wanted secession but Aquila City allowed some autonomy to avoid secession. And allow pacific trade. Especially by being a neutral zone between the USA and China. A soon to be second Cold War rival nations

[@elperrodelautumo7511]

It explains why the “Mexicans” or San sombrero locals like Alejandro areas knew English very well. As well as Rudolfo, Valeria. The army colonel. Diego. Etc. Aquila had a rule all through out Chelonia and English was its dominant language. Spanish was second but it was relevant for the gran lingor island nations.

[@interviolet6675]

He's just an angsty emo boi who got no love or affection from his daddy good ol' russell adler, I mean to be fair it's hard to connect with a man who's muck is dealing with C.i.a affairs that left him scarred in more ways than his face That's my headcanon and no one will tell me otherwise

[@Cijjbnjjif]

Graves is redeemed for being chill

[@undyingwolf]

Graves is a contractor plain and simple he had a bad boss but now we’ll just have to see

[@redacted6366]

Dude i would love to play a entire story as shadow company

[@BranWolfYT]

@@redacted6366 me 2

[@titotims]

I believe Graves could have a redemption arc in MW4. In a campaign concept I've thought of called "Contract Wars," the Konni Group and Shadow Company engage in conflict, with TF141 caught in the crossfire. The Shadow seeks revenge on Konni for past failures, leading to a final confrontation between Price, Graves, and Makarov. In this scenario, Graves sacrifices himself to save Price, allowing him to defeat Makarov in a brutal fist and knife fight. Despite being wounded, Graves manages to weaken Makarov before ultimately falling in battle. Price avenges Graves by defeating Makarov, with the player given the choice of how to eliminate Makarov. This is just my thoughts. Who knows, there might be a chance for Activision to do something like this with MW4. Only time will tell.

[@Darkd1n0]

I personally think that graves might pull a general shepherd on tf141 and betray them because there’s no way graves is going to let the deaths of many of his soldiers slide like that. How can he not be mad about that

[@Deathmare235]

Graves is allied with them, he helped them again konni

[@KhuongTheKat0707]

A spinoff about shadow company is a great idea. Story should be focus on a shadow company operator who has an impact on the story later just like the way some character from original timeline like Roach or Frost and only focus on his story instead of switching between POV of a TF141 character or anyone else beside him. This new shadow protagonist need to be a young yet experienced soldier with his own special backstory which builds up his personality and the motivation why he joins shadow. This Spinoff should occur somehow between the mw3 and mw4 with its own title like cod: shadow operation or cod: shadow warfare. The name mentions about their operation behind in their way of fixing the problems that they have done in the past. This operation is against the activities of Konni, Al Qatala and their allies. Especially Al-asad we don't know much about him after the mw2019. Now, it's time to put him into his end and wipe out all the force of Al qatala before facing Konni once for all in mw4. This would be an opportunity for shadow company to redeem. In multiplayer, a new task force 141 with more members would be show up and they will be on the mw4 especially returnal of Roach who will replace Soap after his death. TF141 would be oppose side to shadow company in this spinoff which consist of tf141 members and their allies. (In the multiplayer shadow and 141 would be against each other but everything which occurs in multiplayer is combat training between these two. They are rival but they are no longer enemy before they form a new coalition in mw4 which will oppose to Konni, opfor and their allies in mw4 multiplayer as a new allegiance faction)

[@Deathmare235]

No spin-offs, just do mw4 but have one of the protagonists be apart of shadow company

[@KhuongTheKat0707]

@@Deathmare235 there're a lot of things need to be explain before everything comes to its end. If we don't have an own side story .The story would happen too quickly and not be able to convey the entire plot in a concrete way. If you put a shadow company operator in the main story about tf141. He would be something not to important, like the way you control the shadow aircraft to support tf141 and their allies or control Dipaolo just to see him die. Shadow company has a lot of potential to be apart of story. Having an own story about them would be a great idea which not only please the players who is a big fan of SC, help game developers gains more money but it also makes cod story be varied

[@Deathmare235]

@@KhuongTheKat0707 so have them be a b plot in the mwllll kinda like the og mw and even mw19

[@KhuongTheKat0707]

@@Deathmare235 you mean Gaz and Alex story. Let SC hunts down Khaled Al-asad and TF141 gets their job done on Konni. But i don't think a campaign would be enough to do that. I don't like another part of story be on other gameplay like warzone or something else like that (warzone should be gone in mw4 for good. I hate it). The way that story was told in mw2 and mw3 was too boring no one want developers repeat that mistake

[@Deathmare235]

@@KhuongTheKat0707 that’s their best option and the old mws did it, been a long time since an American was playable also warzone will never leave

[@TORRES61319]

Sabes Que though mi compa Alejandro he’s got some unfinish business for what graves did to him even if it was just orders from shepherd or he just wanted to get the feeling of it Alejandro won’t forget that so we’ll see something like that who knows

[@BranWolfYT]

Yeah Alejandro ain't letting that shit go at all actually 😂😂😂

[@TORRES61319]

@@BranWolfYT shit i wouldn’t I mean that’s what Alain Mesa said the voice actor pero quien sabe😂 we’ll have to wait and see what mw4 holds I just hope they don’t screw up on it smh

[@Deathmare235]

Him and graves were the best duo in mwll, they’ll probably reunite

[@TORRES61319]

@@Deathmare235 that’s what I hope for fr 🇲🇽🇺🇸

[@TiberiusTheLivingLegend]

They can be redeemed if they started working with tf141 without any intentions of betraying them and allow graves to get he's ass kicked by 141 for nearly getting all of them killed and also having soap getting shot by one of he's men and now that shepherd is dead they can fully work with each other without graves being a lap dog for shepherd

[@Deathmare235]

I agree with you apart from graves getting beat up just sounds dumb

[@Mr_Envixon]

well now that shepherd is uh... Vaporized yes i did not use killed, he's off the leash and he would either go after Task Force 141 (Which makes no god damn sense) or he would work for them cuz he hates shepherd more than the Task Force and both of em share the same enemies and friends, let's hope Modern Warfare 4 is gonna be not " Weapons Free" again , hated that shit

[@a.c.e7407]

Or, he just sits on the sideline waiting for when he can swoop in to vulture the win. Graves wants Glory, same as Shepherd. Taking down Konni will give him just that. My theory is that after MW3, Price is now a fugitive wanted by UK and US, and Graves helps him escape, because he knows he can use Price to fight Konni, and when the push comes to shove, he will just takeover again, with him later taking a role in the same place Shepherd was. I can even see him use his position to corrupt and intervene even more, and see them isolate Laswell and 141.

[@Mr_Envixon]

@@a.c.e7407 that actually makes sense That was too much for me to read bruh

[@Deathmare235]

@@a.c.e7407 graves never cared about glory only his men and the cheque, he wants to kill konni as much as the rest also price being a fugitive doesn’t make sense, Laswell wouldn’t betray him

[@SHADOWCOMPANY45]

I really hope so

[@a.c.e7407]

@@Deathmare235 Laswell has 0 power in that regard. Price committed murder of a top ranking US officer. Laswell is just a CIA senior analyst. She can't just make that go away. Price knew the cost, Laswell just gave him the choice to go through with it. Price, and likely 141 will be disavowed from MW4. Just wait and see.

[@soufyan8793]

He needs to rebuild SC

[@BranWolfYT]

Yup

[@SHADOWCOMPANY45]

You got that right

[@THESERGEANTROACHFROMCOD]

@@SHADOWCOMPANY45where did Lerch transfer, did he bring his cylinder block with him to Al-Mazarah, did he stay?

[@kennethjones8910]

Graves is a great leader and shadow company badass, graves made the greatest PMC team ever but the things they did they did the right thing but 141 made every worse by not going home and they killed Americans so all of the members of 141 should go to prison for that, those civilians in Mexico all of them were bad soap and ghost knew it. And they don’t need to be redeemed because they did nothing wrong shepherd is the one to blame for everything by not sending a qrf to help shadow company and those were graves best friends, graves will do anything for his shadows because he loves them

[@Deathmare235]

Bro really threw shepherd and 141 under the bus just to protect his idolo, graves’ number one glazer right here

[@deandanielson8950]

Ok I’m gonna have to disagree with everything you said,the cartel was evil not the innocent people and he has no authority to take over a Mexican military base and put them in jail right is right and wrong is wrong

[@Unknown65409]

Is it just me or has price never mutually met graves

[@Deathmare235]

Actually they did meet in the hanger before the ac130 mission

[@Unknown65409]

But they never talked idk it was kinda something I noticed

[@BranWolfYT]

No they've never really met in person or had a long actual conversation which is pretty wild

[@Unknown65409]

I wish to see that in mw4

[@a.c.e7407]

@@BranWolfYT They will, when he is going to kill him.

[@Bravefsh]

I'm still confused about this: Do they working with the US millitary?

[@BranWolfYT]

No, not the shadows they are a private military organization that can be hired by the US government.

[@Bravefsh]

@@BranWolfYT Then you can say the work with the US millitary since Shepard hired them.

[@UrbanNoyade]

​@@Bravefsh Shepherd was a military general yes but he hired Shadow Company PMCs without congressional approval, since he couldn't use standard soldiers in Al Mazarah & Mexico

[@Bravefsh]

@@UrbanNoyade What would happend if US troops saw Shadow company troops?

[@UrbanNoyade]

@@Bravefsh They are both american so likely nothing. Prolly get along great since Graves is ex MARSOC

[@whattagiordi]

He can be redeemed or killed I don’t care about him. The only thing I want is his voice out of my head after every single Warzone match.

[@BranWolfYT]

That's true 😂😂

[@Deathmare235]

Who’d you want then, he’s probably the best announcer

[@whattagiordi]

@@Deathmare235 My issue isn’t he being an announcer, my issue are those long cinematic’s before every game that y know word by word but y still have to hear them

[@Sabastian2000]

Hope we see Graves in MW4

[@a.c.e7407]

You will. They don't bother with introducing new characters, like Roach or Sandman, or god forbid an original character.

[@Deathmare235]

@@a.c.e7407 kinda mad how mwlll hasn’t introduced an important character other than Makarov

[@THESERGEANTROACHFROMCOD]

@@a.c.e7407only thing we got a mil-sim Roach in MW19, and Griggs.. after that, nothing, maybe D-Day connection to Sandman, that isn’t possible.

[@rydn_x]

I don’t think the relationship between shadow and TF141 won’t be fixed at all also look how Farah thought about shepherd before she found out that they betrayed 141 keep in mind they are members of 141 but Farah. Alex are only associates of 141 as they are freedom fighters. Also in the season 3 opening of mw3 I know it possibly could be but there a shadow company solider and Farah chokes them out

[@wolfie2079]

I think him and shadow company deserve a 2nd chance i mean their making it up for all the things they did right?

[@BranWolfYT]

I think so

[@Mr-highhonor]

There to cool to be evil bruh

[@rcinpact4480]

No I don’t. Lazy writing has already killed their potential and future.

[@a.c.e7407]

Same. MW3 signed the death certificate of MW reboot. For me, MW2 is the last installment, and that it got cancelled for political reasons and I get to fantasize how it ends. MW3? What's MW3?

[@Harle_y6606]

Short answer. No..war crimes bad

[@TheOminousBlade]

That’s a very simplistic point of view, we have to keep in mind that he was following orders. That and their main mission was to hunt down the cartel, a genocide can only be considered as that if there are grounds to show full intent to kill civilians of which there wasn’t.

[@deandanielson8950]

I feel like they shouldn’t be redeemed at the end of the day right is right and wrong is wrong and juts because he was given orders doenst mean he should have followed them he killed innocent people and parents aside from the cartel,he has to pay for that

[@Deathmare235]

He’s a good guy though, he helped them fight konni

[@Roblox_Astronaut144]

He can be redeemed but he needs to go to a special hotel If you know what I mean

[@jbbelenkokoro2673]

Can Graves be redeemed, no. Graves is a rat so I highly doubt it.

[@laughable7603]

Not really he was just following his orders whether good or bad, he has to follow them or it will breach his contract.

[@Deathmare235]

He ain’t a rat he’s a brother

[@jbbelenkokoro2673]

@@Deathmare235 He literally sold Shepard out and lied about willingly attacking Alejandro and murdering people in Mexico. He cannot be trusted

[@jbbelenkokoro2673]

@@Deathmare235 He sold out his benefactor and lied about his actions in Mexico to court on live TV.

[@Deathmare235]

@@jbbelenkokoro2673 he never sold out Kamarov, he was always loyal to him and honoured their contract