Can I convert this guy? Synergy Syn30 Combo

Aaron Short asked me to show him the Synergy System because he gigs with modellers and he is interested to integrate that with real tube gear again and the Synergy system sounds like the right fit for him. Can I convert him? (Spoiler... I did... he ordered one!)
Here is his channel:
/ aaronshort
Gear from this video at Sweetwater:
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[@LukVonTrug]

I don't play guitar and now I wanna have that damn thing.

[@LordBransty]

Oh man.... That sound at the end. That's my dilemma solved. All the different frequencies, layout confusion, possibilities, subjectivity, etc. But now clear as day. HP42 - Thanks Henning!

[@TavaresProject]

That fryette sounds amazing!!!!

[@PooNinja]

5:40 it is the real thing!! So many true tube options it’s hard to choose which one you want first! Cause you WILL get more I’d suggest the slime green one 👍🏽

[@mulefan1977]

I have a helix, bought the bogner red pedal, bought a big muff, bought a tubescreamer, bought a zendrive to be sure and compare and yes there can be a difference but not enough to justify keeping the pedals.

[@EytschPi42]

did you try the pedals with the Helix or a tube amp? A tube amp will react differently to them than a digital amp.

[@mulefan1977]

@@EytschPi42 yes thru fender deluxe reverb and also helix plugged in to the Friedman asc12.

[@81giorikas]

@@EytschPi42 Well Synergy etc modules aren't pure tube amps by definition. They can have up to 4 gain stages and they drive bass mid treble controls. So, that means that any preamp that uses a tube to buffer a tonestack is left with pretty much with just one tube if it uses the other 12ax7 to form the buffer (well technically only the half of it). As a result, it's impossible to use any dual 12ax7 preamp module and have a pure tube path when the original preamps use sometimes up to 4 (!) 12ax7s to complete a lead channel. It can emulate circuit wise preamps that also use only two 12ax7s. Most of the marshalls, some fender etc. They still, feed a marshall style power amp which is cool or whatever synergy used. That also means that preamps meant to drive other style power amps HAVE to be tweaked to match the sound for the synergy preamp. For the rest of the usually higher gain stuff they use mosfet source followers to drive the tonestacks. Some splawn or ENGL stuff can be emulated because they don't use a "buffer" (google the cathode follower tube topology) but drive the tonestack diferently (directly from the anode of the tube). In short, they use solid state anyway. I haven't got anything against it, and use solid state pedals in front or in the loop and many of the best effects loop are solid state buffered. BUT, the synergy stuff are a bit half assed attempts to take advantage of the manufacturers affiliation. I am sure they did a great job. But in a technical level it will never be matched. So for the PREAMP alone, a digital unit actually has the advantage because it can actually emulate the damn circuit in its entirety. Let that feed the tube power amp in a higher volume and I'd bet anything that they would do as well or probably better than any synergy module feeding the same power amp. A mosfet op amp can go very wrong if it is not properly designed and overdrives easily and harshly. In higher volumes, the digital preamp can keep things more controlled and pretty much most of the work is done by the power amp and speakers. In fact when they draw the most juice from the power supply they don't just add up to the sound of the preamp they become dominant. A thevenin equivalent can show the whole amp as just the power supply and minor extensions (all the other components lol). So cool stuff the synergy but they are not pure tube amps and they are not a super anal circuit aproximation of the real amp unless we are takling circuits that match the number of the components available in the synergy chain and the power amp matches...

[@Robstafarian]

@@81giorikas Have you confirmed that the Synergy modules use solid-state components as you have described, or are you relying on your tube arithmetic? A digital preamp cannot match the interaction between a guitar and a tube preamp, which is more critical to the interaction between the musician and the amp than the tone stack driver circuit is. A cathode follower is, by and large, no more reliant on the unique properties of tubes than an effects loop buffer is. Giving up entirely is not better than a partial solution, especially when said partial solution maintains that which is most important (that judgement being subjective, obviously). As to your latter statement, why are you comparing a preamp module with the totality of an amp rather than said amp's *preamp*? Mating a preamp circuit with a power amp which differs from that with which said preamp circuit was designed is a _conscious_ compromise which can be controlled directly by guitarists-unlike the design and construction of a preamp circuit, which is not a directly-controllable, conscious compromise for guitarists.

[@81giorikas]

@@Robstafarian I don't need to confirm it, but I will tell you this, preamps that use just two 12ax7s (marshall plexi, fender, marshall JCM 800, splawn, engl) can materialize in the synergy module without a mosfet driving the tonestack, however, preamps with more can't. So they have to use mosfets or ...something else. AND they cannot move the tonestack out of the module and use and outboard tube to drive it because then they would all have to use the same settings and the same bias on that tube. And the tonestack is a great part of a character of a preamp. As far as digital preamps go, in the end what you play and what you hear is interrupted and converted a lot, think of a small signal chain, like guitar, wireless, tube screamer, wah, digital chorus into a fender. We are talking about a system that has your signal through radio, or digitally converted then analog, then distorted through op amps in the pedals then digital again through the chorus pedals (not all, but for this example) then to a "full tube fender pure tonal bliss" lol. So using an all digital (good) preamp is not so FAR off, just remember that, in the end if you play loud the preamp plays a smaller role and is just a non linear signal of some mvolts driving the power amp. Most of the amp behavior in loud settings can be attributed to the power amp, supply and speaker cabinet interaction. If you want to see how randall MTS stuff work, open up some schematics (official) that are around the internet, they do use mosfets as source followers... So does an EVH 5150 III lunchbox mark I to save a tube though. That could be a design flaw as it uses a whole tube to drive the effects loop lol, it could use the mosfet there and it would be better (more transparent) and could be bypassed. Now it's on the whole time.

[@JRP3music]

I like super clean, a mid gain that I can back down, and a high gain. I like 3 channels and post boost. I am happy with my amp, I plan to get the Syn1 to add extra channels to my rig. I love Synergy, can't wait to get one.

[@nunocarmona]

The most difficult part to emulate is the power amp, not the preamp. That’s why modellers lack some of the reactiveness and humph of tube amps. That’s why Line 6 DT amp series is brilliant.

[@kingjbone1]

good on you, Henning! Glenn would be proud!

[@Robstafarian]

There are no words for how much I want to have been there.

[@cdh79]

..and i just wanted to go and buy an AXE FX III when i came across the Sweetwater video with Steve Vai and his Synergy module (didn't know Synergy before that) and now 20 minutes later your video.. I will really have to reconsider the AXE FX now..

[@TheLaw1]

Hell yeah, Aaron! 🤘

[@L.Scott_Music]

For module storage I'd like a simple 1U rack plate (like a SYn2 front plate without knob holes just the module cutout and tapped screw holes). That way I can just make my own storage where ever I like.

[@AnAmericanGuitarist]

This video came with a disclaimer that it might be too silly and not have enough dry information, but it was the least silly and most dry information video of all of these Pi42 videos and I think it was the best one because of that. It's hard to find good info on these amps. It's even harder to find a place to try one out where I don't have to make a 4 or 5 hour round trip driving! I just want to hear the Synergy amps, preferably with a Les Paul and without any additional gear, just the Synergy amp with a mic or later on with the Synergy DI without a OX or Tone King or IR that is not part of the Synergy rig. I really want to get a sense of how the 505/50 rack amp sounds too. Does it have the weight and chuck of a Marshall JCM 800 or does it just make the preamp louder? It's disappointing these days that so many amp reviews go so quickly to IRs or pedals. I want to hear as much of the amp as possible, covering all sounds before we get to anything else .... and all preferably with a Les Paul in standard tuning. .... Back to my original point; this is a great, cut to the chase demonstration of this combo. I can't believe that Synergy hasn't made more videos themselves like Mesa and Marshall do.

[@Slothclawcolseslaw]

I would love to hear the helix preamp models into the synergy power amp. Compare them to the synergy preamp. I use helix and putting the preamp models into the power amp of my hot rod deluxe leaves a lot to be desired honestly, so I expect they wouldn’t compare well to the synergy preamps. But it would be a good way to test it.

[@silverpairaducks]

I'd like to see people try good solid state amps or hybrids. Been looking at a Jupiter myself.

[@Robstafarian]

Given how rarely most guitarists crank their volumes (not least because guitar amps are still made with substantially more power than most guitarists need), I suspect that a hybrid such as the Koch Jupiter (I had to guess which manufacturer you had in mind) _might_ be suitable for said majority. Having said that, a tube amp's phase inverter circuit is vastly more important than most people realize; I have my doubts at to whether a solid-state power amp would allow for such nuance or, more explicitly, whether it would be commercially viable to engineer a solid-state power amp which is can recreate such nuance accurately.

[@donaldrobidoux4862]

@eytschpi42 and @aaron short music: What is the first module in the Syn30? Like from 10:00

[@AzaelVI]

Did I hear it said there's going to be an ultalead module!? I hope so. I have a VHT pitbull UL and I love it.

[@davetbassbos]

You could do the each half on each channel, you'd just have to ask people to re-size their browser windows and put them right next to each other and start the videos at the exact same time, easy!

[@aaronshortmusic]

Lol! Great idea!

[@JRP3music]

I wish the Soldano had dual eq and a purple face!

[@eoinc_Ire]

At least a fender twin wouldn’t get stolen in the NY under ground! Hey Officer ! That guy over there is trying to run off with my amp! Yeah that guy over there, holding his back!!😂

[@jergervasi3331]

Great video!

[@JimsMusicJourney]

I would love using a syn 2 with my helix using ir’s into my powercab 2x12. That would be a great hybrid rig.

[@cresshead]

excellent vid...top marks!

[@JRP3music]

The Helix should have a noise gate to stop the squeal.

[@aaronshortmusic]

JRPowell3_Music Yes it does. Sometimes I use one before AND after the amp, also my guitar has the Ilitch noiseless system which helps a lot. Squealing is cool though!

[@sebjulien3]

I really think that we need to be there to really hear it. Pretty hard to hear it over KZbin compression. From what I hear obviously it sounds better warmer and crunchier than all my line 6 gear... It is probably amazing but I wonder with all the modules etc, if I would not prefer an AX-FX for the same price range, I am a multi-effect guy after all. I play progressive rock/metal, and I always shift from clean to dirty in seconds all the time, I love the modules idea but what about changing sounds. And I love my headphones and my monitors.

[@aaronshortmusic]

Like we said in the video. Digital is convenient but I own a Helix and a Kemper and nothing compares to the amp in the room for me. Choosing the correct modules will be important though...

Hey coool Aaron Short :) How small the world is ^^

[@HowardFrischer]

Great video. Love that amp

[@watchtheskies]

You can easily add a second module to this setup by adding a SYN-1 enclosure, a patch lead and a second midi cable, problem solved 😀

[@truthfactreality6814]

Should release a head and combo amp with 4 module slots and IR loader and load box. This would be a finished product then. At the mo it’s not quite there

[@JRP3music]

They have head, combo, rack preamp, stereo power. Each module has 2 channels. Which is an improvement from the original Egnater/Randall MTS modules only 1 channel. The Randall Lynch Box had 3 slots. Synergy has all the bases covered. The have many solutions for different players interests.

[@tiagoramalhais5493]

Hint on the mark V:25 fan noise: the stock fan can be replaced by much more silent ones maintaining the same airflow (it's just a disgrace that mesa can't get a decent one stock on a 1600€+ amp ... come on Mesa, it's 20€ or less! ). But talking about Synergy, i just got the Syn30 combo last week ... great clean, i'm still figuring out what modules to get.

[@aaronshortmusic]

Tiago Ramalhais That’s what I’m getting. Let me know what modules you choose!

[@Robstafarian]

@@aaronshortmusic I would be glad to help you select modules to try; I know a great deal about amps (wannabe amp designer/builder with a schematic collection and spastic cerebral palsy), and I have personal experience with the Synergy TDLX (Twin clean, Deluxe ovedrive), Soldano SLO, and Synergy 800 (Marshall 2203 clone as the low-gain channel) modules. The latter is what I presently have in my SYN-1 chassis, and I still have my SYN-30 head whilst I wait to sell it (I am going to run the cab-simulated output of the SYN-1 into my mixer and call it good, as I face a dramatic decrease in square footage in my near future).

[@aaronshortmusic]

Robstafarian Yes please. I’m looking at the Ecstacy right now.

[@Robstafarian]

@@aaronshortmusic Are your goals still as you described them in this video, or would care to elaborate?

[@aaronshortmusic]

Robstafarian Yes still the same.

[@IntheDAW]

WOW just wow

[@jasonscott8313]

For amp in the room, this is great. For recording, modelers like the Axe-Fx are already there.

[@davidfaustino4476]

Yeah.. no one record with tube amps..

[@MrPinkStrat]

The Fryette Module sounded very Pete Townsend to me .......GREAT

[@aaronshortmusic]

Kevin McVann Yeah I LOVED that one but it’s not available yet.

[@Robstafarian]

I will sell my Synergy 800 module to get the Fryette Deliverance module, when the latter is released. I lived on the Rhythm channel of my Sig:X, which is based on the Deliverance, and I will have to sell that beloved head (it is my white whale) due to the degenerative nature of my spastic cerebral palsy.

[@jorgiewtf]

Fuck man, I'm really considering selling off a few of my amps and going the Synergy route

[@pvdmac]

Brilliant

[@ultravirez]

Sounds like he wants a BB BE to me.

[@davidfaustino4476]

Your pickups are the squealers actually. Unpotted single coils. But youd have to know things to realize that..

[@EytschPi42]

yeah… I don’t know anything, right!

[@billrand4138]

Amp1 is the answer for this guy

[@aaronshortmusic]

Bill Rand Actually I have tried it and while it’s very impressive for what it is I prefer the Synergy combo.

[@JRP3music]

I always thought the name was pronounced Itchy Pie! or Etschy Pie , Etschy Sketchy Pie!

[@JRP3music]

I thought it was Itchy Pie or Etschy Sketchy Pie

[@mixodorians12]

Just so we are clear, my Mooer Preamp Live can tone capture that Synergie thing (and fifty other amps), over KZbin (whilst you are playing it) or straight off the synergie website, and I can have all its tones (as near as makes no diference) for free. The Mooer Preamp live is cheaper, you get fifty channels, and it tone captures...and you think that thing is better? How much are they paying you?

[@EytschPi42]

Sorry man... I am laughing... no offense.... I had the Preamp Live here... I played it! it is not even in the same universe as these modules and you can "tone capture" all day long... it just won't sound like that! Play a Synergy amp and come back here to tell me how it sounded!

[@karlozmpr]

@@EytschPi42 agree!

[@mixodorians12]

@@EytschPi42 I reslly really don't think you do. I think you just made all that up. I am just laughing at you..and your desperate "making things up to try to win the arguement" stuff. Hahahahahaha.

[@riloh58]

EytschPi42 - Agree also but, for one main reason. I’ve heard loads of amp demos on YT, they are 100% nothing like actually playing that amp. There is no way to capture that sound and experience without physically being with the amp. The quality of sound over YT is not up to properly conveying how these things really sound so tone sampling an amp off YT will get you what it sounds like on YT only and I’d suspect that’s nothing like what it actually sounds (and feels) like. Each to their own though. If someone is happy with their set up more power to them. Whatever you want/need to make music I guess.

[@EytschPi42]

Stuee... I filmed the Thomann product demo of the Preamp Live... I know every Mooer product because I filmed all of them for Thomann. (I‘ve also been to the Mooer factory in China) I am glad you like it, but it truly has nothing to do with a real tube tone and most certainly not the tones you can get from Synergy. I know that you want to believe that, but it just isn’t true. You can make some great music with the Preamp Live... so go and do that instead of arguing over it.

[@VMinoda]

Yeah it sounds good and all, but I haven't heard anything that would justify buying Syn 30 for 1400 EUR plus 399 for every additional module over, say, Axe-FX or a helix. Pretty sure top level modelers just cannot be beaten in terms of price/performance or even pure convenience. Great vid though, as usual!

[@mixodorians12]

I have the Carvin Legacy tone capture and I play it through my Mooer Preamp Live and it sounds pretty bloody good to me. Tones are just files now, you don't really need money or anything to get killer tone. It isn't 2005 anymore, though the tube industry dearly want it to be forever.

[@VMinoda]

@@mixodorians12 exactly. I get the feeling that the tube industry - specifically tube amps - is gonna shrink. Not die, but lose *a lot* of ground. In the end, we don't use cassette players anymore. We don't record to tape. We don't listen to vinyl records. I mean, some people do and that's fine, it's just that their number is minuscule.

[@riloh58]

VMinoda - I’m sure these things will only get better over time (they are already quite good) and they are convenient as hell which is no minor consideration but FWIW I’m not giving up my tube amp just yet.

Hey coool Aaron Short :) How small the world is ^^