Can Phil Shiner be forced to pay back his ill-gotten gains?

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

I had one of these where the convicted dealer came back with the best line when being quizzed about his benefit: “Well how am I supposed to remember? I was hardly keeping books on it like other businesses do” 😂 even the judge laughed.

[@Sandhoeflyerhome]

May I offer another. This person, who I knew, decided not to register for VAT, (this right back at the beginning of VAT,) but remembered to collect it. Later in court, the judge asked him why he did not register his company for VAT ??? His answer reported in the local paper, left me staggered, he answered with a dead straight face, "I never thought it would catch on"

[@artmedialaw]

I like Ken Dodd's excuse. "I didn't think the Inland Revenue had anything to do with me. I live by the seaside."

[@jhonbus]

That Freeman Dyson story makes me all the more tempted to try out my ingenious scheme of dressing up in a black and white striped top, a flat cap, and an eye mask, carrying a hessian sack marked "SWAG" and burgling a load of houses on the night of Halloween.

[@charleswillcock3235]

Another excellent video. Made even more enjoyable with that lovely backdrop. Many thanks for sharing.

[@Swansong321]

Hmmm...THIS happened to family members..they froze the house and assets to sell ..they luckily were cleared on appeal before the house was sold..cps are beasts

[@graceandfavour9630]

Good

[@Yorci62]

For many years it use to infuriate me why the POCA was not used more often. I learned just to accept that police pick and choose. They were/are satisfied with just the basic arrest, not interested in making the criminal pay to the satisfaction of the victim. It still winds my up a bit.

[@yorkiemike]

It's not the police that make that decision, is it?

[@Yorci62]

@@yorkiemike Generally yes, when they put a file together they include the offence. There have been cases when they have not included an alternate offence, when it goes to court if the primary offence is not made out, that is the end of it. There use to be many checks in place to more ensure that the circumstances fitted the offence, rather than find an offence then presenting sufficient circumstances that fit that offence. The police gather and secure evidence present that to a lawyer who then ultimately decides what offence to put before the court. The downside in many cases they will under present the offence to secure a conviction, thus POCA is seldom used. There are a lot of offences on the statute books, but sadly if the police do not think about that offence, then it seldom makes it to the courts.

[@tasha24-7]

What an amazing background!...... wow

[@Kx0195]

I love watching all these videos you do. Fantastic content.

[@barbarapalmer1404]

Fascinating!

[@angusmacmillan5365]

Great video! I'm becoming an addict to these videos.

[@martinsigley3957]

The money will be in the Caymans, he goes down for a token sentence, well worth it.

[@bobfry5267]

What a beautiful day! Very funny tale of the wife and girlfriend. Karma at work.

[@TheVigilant109]

Very interesting. Many thanks

[@markrobinson1458]

Wow, so much information in so little time 😂 excellent 👍

[@artmedialaw]

And some of it might even have been right!

[@chaipup7045]

so, basically, crime pays if you have the money....

[@johnsykes9623]

Very interesting. Wonder if this will be used in the Horizon, COVID, furlough fraud cases

[@artmedialaw]

There is a video on here about the possibility of going after the Post Office. Search 'poca'

[@Lyndalewinder]

Very interesting video Al - thanks for posting. Any chane of covering the whole suubject of "public interest" in the future - I gather there me be changes afoot in this area?

[@m3gthraeryn]

Hi Al! Really interesting!

[@TheOriginalDaveJ]

Good to see your subs creeping up Alan😊

[@artmedialaw]

Yeah! I really appreciate it. Although I'm just grateful when people watch the videos.

[@phill6859]

Go to prison or keep a million pounds? ... Is that deal available to anyone

[@artmedialaw]

Well the first step is you have to nick the million pounds.

[@loc4725]

I assume that if they haven't got the £100k, spend the 5 years in prison and after release subsequently 'find' the money that they still have to pay it back?

[@tixy7768]

Money is still owed post prison, but can’t be sent back to prison once a default is served

[@robertparkinson2102]

I'm confused. Is each person who knowingly touches criminal proceeds deemed to benefit from all they have temporary control over? e.g. Mrs Brown's christmas dinner was stolen from somewhere. If she puts it on the table and says help yourselves vs plating up and passing around is the liability different because the people next to Mrs Brown handled more than the food they ate?

[@artmedialaw]

Yes. If you handle or possess criminal property, even on a temporary basis, you are deemed to have benefited to the value of the property.

[@c-9233]

Are the salaries and bonus' given to Post Office execs etc be classed as proceeds of crime/ill-gotten gains? Can money be taken back, can they be sued in the civil courts by accused sub-postmasters?

[@DanSnipe-k8o]

Can we see a list of orders for confiscation of wealth and see how the person obtained this wealth?

[@Norman445]

He didint carry two Large bags of money to his bank it was transfered by the Judisury to his account electronicly . There is a paper trail.

[@lindsayheyes925]

Can he plead Dunning-Krueger Syndrome? After all, he thought he was an ethical Human Rights hero.

[@MikeKey-y7l]

I don’t think they use POCA enough it might deter more criminals if they did.

[@ruspj]

curious it makes sense that if you say gamble or buy a lottery ticket with proceeds of crime then the winnings are taken as proceeds of crime if somebody gambles the proceeds of crime and loose more than was stolen/defrauded would these losses reduce the ammount taken in the same way? EG. if somebody earns £10,000 from crime but buys a lottery ticket and win a £million they would realistically owe £1,010,000 if somebody earns £10,000 from crime but looses 9,900 on lottery tickets would they only owe the £100 left?

[@artmedialaw]

Scenario 1: Yup. They would be deemed to have benefited to the sum of £1.01 million. Scenario 2: Nope. They would be deemed to have benefitted to the sum of £10K. It's the gross value of the proceeds that passes through your hands. Same if you invest your stolen money into a legit business. If you profit you owe all of it. If you go bust you still owe the stolen money.

[@kennethsimmons2029]

4 legal aid refusals from 4 unconnected solicitors identifying a case in 1998 - which eventually turned out to be event 1 of the 2700 justice miscarriages identified by Alan Bates successful court action 18 years later, Can i sue Legal aid board if only to establish their real reasons for refusal and whether there was any undue influence from the 390 million pounds legal costs under admin of Mandy Talbot and at least 4 police officers on her friends list,

[@bearants]

justice or ideology. choose one.

[@alantheinquirer7658]

As an aside, many people don't understand the difference between turnover and profits. Perhaps it's because when a big firm wants to sound more successful then they talk of turnover? 😁

[@kathrynhobbs8874]

Sorry Alan, this is not on topic, but I couldn’t find any other way of contacting you . please have a look at the latest registration requirement for fowl, even the family pet chicken. Oh and any cassowaries you have…….It’s hilarious

[@artmedialaw]

I know! Have you seen how people crashed the site by registering chickens from the supermarket?

[@kathrynhobbs8874]

@@artmedialaw I’m moving into the nearby mental home, cos I think they are a lot saner the powers that be 🤪

[@PenryMMJ]

It's £2 for a lottery ticket these days Al.

[@arthur1670]

9:10 from a none EU country…. Old law or Brexit treaty ?

[@arthur1670]

Why don’t they have punitive damages?

[@artmedialaw]

We don't really have punitive damages in this country. Generally the purpose of civil proceedings is just to compensate for actual loss. The criminal law deals with any punitive aspects.

[@HJJSL-bl8kk]

Regarding the skip hire. Does mens rea apply? What if I know the person who hires the skip but my skip hire business is totally legit?

[@artmedialaw]

I'll do a vid on when you cross the line to become an accessory. It gets a bit complex factually as to what amounts to knowing a crime is going to be committed, just suspecting they might be a bit dodgy, and total ignorance of their intentions.

[@HJJSL-bl8kk]

@@artmedialaw Thanks. Your videos are excellent.

[@Norman445]

He got 2 mil there is a paper trail, It is not hard to follow. Strawman arguments about we cant read wont work.

[@paulharnett5343]

Are there any seals over at polyjoke this year

[@artmedialaw]

Haven't seen any. Loads up at Godrevy though.

[@SallyAnn-y8p]

Do you ever see any whales?

[@artmedialaw]

Unfortunately not. There is a pod of humpbacks that pop by. But they've proved elusive. As has the Minke whale that lives by St Ives.

[@BigDuke6ixx]

First!

[@GWAYGWAY1]

All the recovery goes to the consolidation fund and from there to Zelensky so he can launder it to another Swiss account????😊😊😊