#33 The UK Smart Metering Fiasco!

[@myronmog63]

Knowing how much it costs to make a cup of tea doesn't make it cheaper. The only way to save money is to use less energy and I don't need a smart meter to do that.

[@xxwookey]

Sort of true, but logging of usage over time tells you more than what individual activities take. That's useful info too. And there are other ways to save money: like time-shifting usage to cheaper (and usually lower carbon) times of day.

[@mfx1]

A display telling you you've not switched the oven off does though

[@andrewcheadle948]

​@@xxwookey"lower carbon times of day? What does that even mean? Quite evidently electricity is being rationed by design, simply through cost!

[@myronmog63]

@@mfx1 Won't it just tell you something's running? You'd still have to know it's the oven.

[@bouncy19661]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHXEZmWhn5h_e7ssi=75WIQS6ErA8mI-zq you noticed the chaos

[@richard_wenner]

A really SMART meter would automatically switch my electricity to come from the cheapest supplier every 30 minutes or so.

[@a.karley4672]

As the presenter pointed out, the meters are owned by the energy suppliers, so that is probably the last feature that would ever be added. Some time after the heat death of the universe and the introduction of PPLs (Porcine Pilot Licenses).

[@richard_wenner]

@@a.karley4672 No, it is the intended medium term aim to implement here in the UK (as is community interaction with the grid). There is a power in devolution although some say that it is a dilacerate distraction from some of the more recent power supply issues.

[@alexandermathie66]

Your smart meter works for the electricity board and therefore monitors your usage so they can actually put the price up at peak times and down when it's hardly getting used. Your just there to be bled dry 😂. I'll never have one. I dare say they may mandate them but my power's produced by sunshine and shortly by wind also and will be getting rid of all incoming services as soon as I solve my November to February power shortage. I've been looking at back up generators also.🙏

[@richard_wenner]

@@alexandermathie66 There is a thing called fuel poverty. For those lucky first movers who were able to afford the originally high price of solar gained, and still gain a good 'feed in' tariff. They do not suffer this poverty. Again for the wealth battery backup is now an option that allows them to go entirely off grid and avoid the huge price increases we are all suffering. Again the full cost has been interested or shifted to 'the masses'.

[@alexandermathie66]

@richard_wenner I'm far from wealthy but I do have a 48v lead acid forklift battery. I'm in scotland so need a battery that can handle the cold. I used to be on a good tariff but e.on who went bust and became eon next told me they weren't going to honour my contract (they were due me 5G) but would give me 10%! I switched of the feed in tariff right then. Went out and bought two stand alone inverters and the battery. I've since bought a wind turbine just haven't had the time to fit it. Like I said, Nov to Feb are the problem months but if I resolve this I'll be going completely off grid. 🙏

[@hintoninstruments2369]

You can find out how much energy each appliance uses with a cheap power meter that plugs into any outlet. A "smart" meter has no information on what appliances are in use, just the total the same as a dumb meter. The only reason the government are trying to make them compulsory is the remote cutoff feature.

[@darrenmurphy6251]

nail on the head!

[@davideyres955]

Nope it’s worse than that. The smart meters can meter for apparent power. When you use things like old style incandescent lights the volts and amps are in sync, but things like switched mode power supplies cause a lag between current and voltage. Watts which is what is metered is volts times amps. The old meters could only meter for actual power so it’s less. It’s called power factor. Just checked mine with my monitoring system and it’s currently 0.6 as I have a lot of smart kit running in my house. If they are aloud to turn this on then effectively you kWh will be divided by this figure. I’m currently pulling 65kwh but if you factor in reactive power it would be upped to 106 kWh. Thats going to add about a hundred pounds a year to my bill if they are aloud to adjust for reactive power. Currently the old meters cannot bill for it, they don’t have the technology in them. When they get everyone over to smart meters this will happen. They will make it law to have smart meters under the guise of net zero and then they change the billing. Because things like LED lights have switched more power supplies and LED lights have caused demand to drop. Good thing for the environment, bad for electricity company profits. Hence smart meters and things like standing charge (which is how they got us to pay for them).

[@Cornz38]

It's worse. The idea is they will be able to detect peak use during non peak use times and charge you more. Like when you pop the kettle on during the adverts on Corrie or Emerdale.

[@Cornz38]

@@davideyres955 "allowed"...

[@paulateetree8437]

Correct!

[@abarratt8869]

I've so far refused a smart meter, because of the remote switch off. It's not that I want to have my electricity without paying the bill; I pay my bills promptly, on time. I just don't trust the companies to know that. With remote cut off, the consumer is totally dependent on the company processing their billing data properly. And as many, many people know, the one thing that the companies are very bad at is accurate processing. I want it to be that, if they think I've not paid my bill because their IT is rubbish and they want to cut me off, they'll have go through other people first (a court, or bailiff, etc) whereupon I'll have an opportunity to show that I have paid the bill, and they're unjustly harassing me.

[@jonb5493]

A zillion upticks! I suspect many of us hadn't given enough thought to the issue of ensuring a human is involved in physically switching on/off. But no surprise, the rest is common knowledge: "their IT is rubbish".

[@colinslater2947]

We paid all of our bills on time since moving here 8 1/2 years ago. 7 years after moving here we were informed that their bills were inaccurate and we owed £18,000. We have been harassed ever since. They reduced it to £5,000. Despite paying off the "debt" monthly, the amount comes down one month then goes back up again. They still estimate our usage despite me sending a reading every month. We then get a revised bill crediting us with the difference. Go figure. Banging you head against the wall doesn't begin to describe it.

[@dirkvanschalkwyk1919]

The electricity supply to your property can surely be switched off without a smart meter being installed first, so I don't understand your concern.

[@dirkvanschalkwyk1919]

​@@colinslater2947Yours is not an argument against smart meters. Switch to another energy provider, when incompetence is evident. If you take regular readings yourself why not account for your consumption to verify the billing accuracy.

[@dirkvanschalkwyk1919]

How many cases of smart meter hacking have occurred in the UK?

[@joezanella8949]

Typical Britain, do it on the cheap that ends up costing far more than it should and still does not work.

[@petermontgomery8707]

That's just anything that's government led. Governments always make the wrong choices when it comes to future planning.

[@jonb5493]

It sure wasn't done "on the cheap". The rest of the sentence is true.

[@xxwookey]

It was done very expensively but it does also actually work. I don't know why this chap seems to think it doesn't.

[@Lord-Sméagol]

@@jonb5493 Done on the cheap for government and energy corps; cost passed on to customers, as usual!

[@stephenbrown9998]

Even the signaling part of the meter is on a SIM card so won’t work if in an old cellar it’s that cheap

[@supergustavus1503]

I’m being bombarded with letters and emails from EON. The tone is shifting from inviting me to change to demanding

[@myronmog63]

They did the same to me. Eventually I said OK, I've had enough. They asked me when to make the appointment for. I said no, I'm switching, and left.

[@paulm706]

The letters are very handy for lighting the log burner

[@TheHoveHeretic]

Tell them to eff off. My 'smart meter' does sod all for the standing charge and BGas are happy with that ... especially their complaints department. My mate is terminally ill and the bastards at E.On keep on at him. NPower were A*holes. All the big suppliers are the same, just like broadband or mobile phones or the astounding choice in profiteering company we have to pay to pump shit into rivers and the sea.

[@trudilm3864]

Well then write to them and remind them to remember their manners.

[@fatboy7276]

You can have them fitted but tell them to keep it as a dumb meter with the "smart" bit not activated

[@davideyres955]

Smart meters were for the suppliers only. You can get the same functionality from a £30 current clamp but a smart meter cost >£300 which we have to pay for! What other industry manages to charge us for their equipment needed to bill us. Then manages to get us to pay for their losses where they are not collecting the bill. Smart meters don’t help the consumer. They are there to save the suppliers money and they managed to get us to pay for it. Most companies would invest in capital investment to save operational cost especially when you have a bit of kit that lasts 10 years and means you can get rid of meter reading staff. Corrupt lobbying must be exposed.

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

More of your standing charges is to pay people like me for the solar energy I generate- and then use myself. And you will be doing it for 25 years. Thank you. Cost of meters- £6B so far; pays for a lot of meter readers. And mine is set to not communicate- so still needs a reader.

[@nicholaspostlethwaite9554]

Actually, every company! The customers pay for every bit of all they use or buy, or even try something new and get wrong. No one else does. The power stuff is just arcanely muddled up with government. If a Supermarket puts in new self service tills YOU pay for them on all your purchased items, to save them money, operating costs, just not noticeably or accountably. You pay for their adverts too. Or all the 'membership cards' to gather buying data. It is all normal everywhere else.

[@phill6859]

@@Tensquaremetreworkshop they send out meter readers to make sure you haven't bypassed the smart meter anyway. They have a legal responsibility to visibly inspect them.

[@therealrobertbirchall]

​@phill6859 do the electricity companies actually have a legal obligation to read your meter?

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

@@therealrobertbirchall I do not know, but my generation purchaser has told me they are required to see the meter every two years.

[@johnrobertson6302]

You don’t need smart meters for the energy network to understand demand over the day. Rather than monitor the individual property you put in a network meter the monitors what goes through the local substation. Smart meters appear to be more focused on billing rather than energy management.

[@Tim_Small]

Octopus energy are using smart meters to allow for innovative tariffs like "Agile" and "Cosy". These just aren't possible without smart meters, and save me about 30% off my power bill.

[@xxwookey]

But more flexible billing is one way of getting better energy management. Once people realise they can save a lot of money by shifting loads or adding storage to shift loads and import when it's cheap quite a lot will do it. Even more will do it if it's automatic once they've bought the kit.

[@Captain_Scarlet_SIG]

@@Tim_SmallRubbish we’ve had different tariffs going back 30 yrs long before smart meters, it’s about restricting or cutting power to households when the inevitable shortages come.

[@StrixTechnica]

Smart meters tell you two things that such an aggregate meter doesn't: the reactive component of power draw and, for properties that have solar, how much energy is being exported into the network. Exported power matters because it can impact the operational parameters of last-mile distribution, and reactive power matters because it tells you how much energy is sloshing back and forth in the network not doing any useful work. If you can identify properties that have particularly bad power factor (the ratio of apparent power to active power), you can do something to improve overall efficiency.

[@oojimmyflip]

It makes meter readers lazy and fat because they don't have to get out of their cars and we all know that's not good for you. It may also make them unemployed.

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

I will do EVERYTHING I can to AVOID HAVING A SMART METER under any circumstances. As the radio signal for the economy 7 is being switched off EON are ramping up the pressure for me to have one. To have a meter which seems to be inaccurate more often than not, fails to provide the display for the customers (rathan the suppliers) needs, can charge me different rates almost by the individual hour for their wants, not mine, and can remotely disconnect my supply at their will or a hackers will is NOT something I’m allowing in MY HOME. Yes, the capital letters are there deliberately.

[@christopherfitzgerald774]

Tell them to get stuffed. I do every time the call me.

[@brianlopez8855]

I would add in a simple clockwork timer for all power to the storage heaters. You dont need to use their timer.

[@shaunh5316]

I’m also on Economy 7. There is no mobile phone signal in my communal electricity box, so there is no point in me getting a smart meter at this time.

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

@@brianlopez8855 it’s not about storage heaters being turned on or off, the meter uses the signal to change to a different rate for the electricity

[@AlexParkYT]

Stand your ground. I refuse one too.

[@christopher554]

I had a new smart meter for gas and electric ,both don’t work the company can’t get the reading I do it my self . So much for smart meters.

[@thegreyghost-g4o]

It's the camel that you'd get if the government designed a thoroughbred racehorse.

[@nonstopgok5396]

What I find interesting is why the very rich don't have smart meters. I have been constantly lied to, threatened and bullied in their attempts to force a smart meter on me. Last time they came, someone climbed on my garage roof and was looking through my 2nd floor windows. Don't know what he was planning but he soon got down when my neighbour filmed him and threatened to call the police. I work for several very rich and powerful families. None of them have a smart meter. None of them have been hassled or even been offered one at any point. I've checked all their properties. Make of that what you will.

[@matty506]

They do have smart meters. I've installed in hundreds of millionaires houses along with a few celebrities and Lords. They probably don't have the in home display that many people think is the smart meter. The smart meter is the actual meter where the power to the fuse board is fed.

[@nonstopgok5396]

@@matty506 maybe those people weren't rich enough.

[@Jablicek]

I know some rich people. They're very good at penny pinching. "Why are you using all the hot water, now excuse me because I'm off to Bermuda first class." They've had smart meters for years.

[@andrewstafford-jones4291]

UK Electricity Prices Highest in the World New data from the Government shows the UK has the highest industrial and domestic electricity prices of the 28 countries tracked by the IEA. UK industrial electricity prices at 25.85p/kWh are the highest of the 28 countries covered by the IEA report. UK prices are some four times those in the US, 2.6 times those of Korea and 46% higher than the IEA median. Given that UK gas prices are below the IEA median and those of France and Germany it cannot be gas prices that are driving UK electricity prices so much higher than elsewhere. Canada, Norway, Finland, Sweden, New Zealand and Portugal all have industrial electricity prices less than 10p/kWh. We cannot hope to compete in traditional energy intensive industries or industries of the future like making batteries or AI with such extortionate electricity prices.

[@therealgraeme]

It's because they are greedy in the UK (think we, the consumers can afford it - hence everything in the UK is more expensive than elsewhere). Also due to national grud, we have to pay for gas plants not to supply electricity, because national grid contract with supplier states they'll get X amount regardless. Free energy can't be put in the grid, because if fossil fuel contracts and the grid is f**ken old and wasn't upgraded as the years gone by.

[@mrrcassidy]

The rest of the World doesn't pay the deplorable Green Levy which of course no-one voted for.

[@MickLawless-s6u]

If they are so good, why won’t the energy suppliers replace my broken smart meter ?

[@phill6859]

@@MickLawless-s6u presumably the smart meter is not broken. Either the in home display doesn't work, or your smart meter isn't communicating for some reason (you don't say what the problem is though)

[@darrenadams2640]

@@phill6859 That's a very good point. If the supply was working but the meter not measuring then they would probably fix it within days as you would be getting free energy! If the display doesn't work then they won't care - if its still in warranty then you'll eventually get a new one but otherwise a big bill for its replacement. If the meter is not communicating then that's not a priority for them as they will resort to estimates till its fixed. They are only being monitored on how many meters they roll and not whether they are working or not, and are being fined if they are not doing enough.

[@christopher554]

@@MickLawless-s6u I got one the energy company saying to me too keep doing my own readings ,there our thousands of meters like it ,not communicating with there energy companies.

[@darrenadams2640]

@@christopher554 Actually, if you look up the official figures there are 3.9 million not working in smart mode! Unofficial figures say there are an additional similar amount operating in smart mode but not working fully. If the display isn't working and it's out of warranty (typically 12 months) then it's bad news as you will have a large bill of you want it replaced. The tech is also antiquated by today's standards.

[@huffmanaviation7341]

I'll bet you folding money that almost non of the SMART meter is recyclable ​@@sloine-q5l

[@davethefab6339]

I’m hassled by E-On to get metered but I’ve told them time and time again that to do so would require the removal of most of my kitchen and as a pensioner I am unable to do this or to take on the cost of removal and replacement. They still want to do it but who’s going to sort my kitchen?

[@adrianchetwynd1334]

Removal of a kitchen in order to change the meter! A very small kitchen or a very large meter?

[@grokitall]

​@@adrianchetwynd1334a lot of that is that they want to move the meter outside, and charge him for the privilege. back in the 90s they wanted to force my pensioner mother to move the meter outside, for which they wanted to charge 800 pounds, after you had already paid to dig up your path all the way to the street, then potentially wait weeks with no street access for them to do it, then wait and pay again for someone to come along and replace the path. this would also require ripping out the fitted kitchen to replace all of the supply before the fuse box. understandably she told them to go away and not come back until they had a realistic option. just replacing the existing meter with a smart meter would be cheaper and easier, but only worth it if it had a similar footprint to the old meter.

[@tallullahmoon]

Don't let them do anything. Always say no as you will be worse off.

[@Cornz38]

Smart people have dumb meters, dumb people have smart meters.

[@simonmasters3295]

Funny you

[@peterjones6322]

So how is your smart meter performing 😁

[@Cornz38]

@@peterjones6322 Like you, it's dumb.

[@Cornz38]

@@simonmasters3295 Jealous?

[@Cornz38]

@@peterjones6322 YT deleted my reply. Shame, it was a stinging comeback.

[@abarratt8869]

I like France's system. You have a box with a light, and the colour of the light tells you how much electricity will cost tomorrow. If tomorrow is going to be cheaper than today, you delay putting the washing machine on. It's really simple, and people use it.

[@ValTwineDeaner]

I was forced to have a smart meter back in 2013 when I moved into my current council flat. At the time I was with Southern Gas/electricity. It's since been changed over to OVO. I was told that I didn't have a choice and it would be put in for free, and would be charged at a later date if I had it later. My family told me afterwards that I was lied to. But I can't reverse it.

[@TheHoveHeretic]

Lying out of their arse is now a standard tool of most corporates. Best advice .... Get a phone recording app (and an external memory sick!) and record EVERY call.

[@adrianchetwynd1334]

A few years ago my buy to let house tenants got a supplier to remove my heat wise meter and replaced it with a pay as you go meter without asking for my permission. By the time they left leaving my house in a mess it was too late to reinstate the heat wise supply. My heat wise heating system was effectively written off and I have been forced to remove it.

[@brianlopez8855]

I would always add an old mechanical meter in series with that Smart Meter to check the total consumption so you can challenge them. You can buy them online new for about £20 and takes about an hour to fit between the Smart and the fuseboard with a short pair of tails and an 16mm earth wire.

[@richardbaruch3355]

Interesting idea ​@@brianlopez8855

[@MrHws5mp]

Few points: 1. I will never voluntarily have a smart meter that includes a remote cut-off feature. You're not "load managing" me to compensate for your lack of investment in sufficient generating capacity. 2. I will never voluntarily have a smart meter that depends on talking to my smart phone, because I don't have a smart phone and I don't want one. 3. One simple way to save energy is to use remote-controlled plug adapters that let you turn off all of the transformers for your computer or entertainment system with one click, rather than having to grovel under your desk to reach the wall switches. The latter might sound trivial, but consider an elderly person with arthritis, for whom bending/kneeling down seriously hurts. They would MUCH rather leave things on standby than bend down to switch them off, as, increasingly, would I.

[@alexatkin]

1. Irrelevant, as if they desperately need to load manage they will do it by substation instead. 2. It wouldn't depend on your phone, as they don't depend on the in home units now either, its just an option to make them more useful. 3. Remote control plugs add another point of failure, or an end user connecting a device which draws more current than it can handle. Absolutely fair for you to use them if you know how to do it safely, but not everyone does. But overall, turning things off wont save you money as the constant power surges every time you power them on will wear them out quicker, costing more than the tiny standby power they use being left on.

[@MrHws5mp]

@@alexatkin 1. How wil they do that when substations serve mixed load, including industry, housing and services? 2. The guy in the video was specifically advocating meters that interfaced via smartphone apps instead of stand-alone remotes. 3. Every remote plug I've seen can handle the same current as a plug-in adaptor. As for points of failure, if they fail then you can simply unplug them and plug your devices back into the wall socket again. Whether switching things off saves money depends on the relationship between electricity costs and product costs. At the moment, electricity costs are going up and up, while equipment costs are very low, especially if it's just a trailing PSU that you're replacing instead of a whole device.

[@70AD-user45]

​@@MrHws5mp How do you survive in the modern world without a smart phone. What are you using now for messaging.

[@MrHws5mp]

@@70AD-user45 Christ that's pathetic. Same way I survived for 40 years before smatphones were invented. I'm typing this on my PC.

[@xxwookey]

@@alexatkin wrote "But overall, turning things off wont save you money as the constant power surges every time you power them on will wear them out quicker". That was true in the days of valve TVs but is debatable now. We've been turning things on and off for decades and have not had premature failures yet. And standby consumption can be significant: our microwave is 35kWh/yr or about GBP 8.70 if left on all year. Our boiler is GBP 24/yr. Modern kit is usually better but it still adds up at 8760hours/year times however many devices you have.

[@Allegro-wp8xf]

Most people I know, know how much energy certain appliances use. Washing machine....3Kw. kettle...3Kw. high energy. Mobile phone chargers...low energy. LED lights ..low energy. I don't need a smart meter and won't have a smart meter. It's all about control.

[@wino99999]

You'll be lucky to find a 3kW kettle, most are rated at 2.2kW and many are 1.8kW.

[@phann860]

You forget that you are charged by the KwH, a kettle at 2.2 Kw is only on for minutes at a time, so the KwH is only less than a penny, if that. Same with a washing machine, the 3Kw is only when it heats the water. An hour wash usually comes in as less than 1 KwH.

[@Allegro-wp8xf]

@@phann860 but that can never compete with a mobile phone charge?

[@JC-jv5xw]

One point not mentioned - the poor quality of the installation of these meters, which is far too frequently unsafe . Had they been rolled out by the network operator, they would have been installed by the existing experienced meter crews. Instead third party installers are using hastily "trained" operatives, most with no electrical experience, to work on the most critical high current connections on a property. Usually under ludicrous time pressure. Consequently there are loose connections (a major fire hazard) and instances of very dangerous reversed polarities etc.

[@johnkeepin7527]

Recently I came across a YT entry that demonstrated just such a case (can’t remember it’s contributor), in which the installer connected it the wrong way round (neutral to live & ice versa) and failed to test it properly. The one I used was actually working for the utility firm, OVO, and did use a proper test device plugged in to one of my sockets to check that it was the right way round.

[@oojimmyflip]

Initially they were made by farm machinery companies who know nothing about metering electricity.

[@heathcliffebird7514]

Can we PLEASE just replace Ed Milliband with Nick? Awesome conversation. Huge thanks :-)

[@raypitts4880]

or evan conversion

[@paulinetipper1351]

What a good idea.

[@dukeofvoid6483]

I think it was a Tory decision to put utilities, not the regulator, in charge of the smart meter rollout.

[@briankelly1420]

Isn’t the point of the utility company, make profit for shareholders holders? Using less gross power will only make the unit price increase to provide the same level of profit! There is no possibility bills will be reduced, the concept is a pure scam!

[@ChrisPhelps-od8ct]

It's the point of ALL companies. Knowledge is power (excuse the pun)Smart meters,used correctly, allow power companies to manage load more efficiently and save money for everyone.

[@briankelly1420]

@ Precisely, there is no advantage to the consumer, the only benefit is to the power company, if the consumer uses less power, or indeed any commodity in order to maintain profit the price will rise there is no foreseeable prospect of the end user saving anything!

[@boriss.861]

Smart Meter does not stop an individual bi-passing the meter. The meter reader coming round every 6 months they can eyeball the consumer unit and report back if it has been tampered with.

[@brianlopez8855]

Then its important to box in the wiring isn't it ? The meter reading is only entitled to see the meter face, nothing more.

[@michaelkelly8861]

No you idiot,as a former meter reader who took my job seriously it's to inspect the meter installation i.e major safety aspects including possible bypass that could lead to sparking and fires...also correct fitment of wiring,no bare wires which could cause electrical shock, particularly in areas where small children can access.

[@StrixTechnica]

Smart meters detect tampering. They will send an alarm, which may or may not be actioned immediately, but they'll know when it happened. It's not worth getting a criminal conviction for this.

[@ChrisPhelps-od8ct]

No it doesn't, but it does inform the Supplier immediately allowing them to take appropriate action.

[@kellyeye7224]

My understanding is that Smart Meters are 'supply side demand regulators' whereby the user is forced to accept high cost energy at peak time - in order to stop the peak demand on the system. Well it WOULD if we were ALL on the same system but clearly this method of supply regulation can't/won't work while someone can use energy at 'whatever'cost that isn't cost-regulated based on demand.

[@xxwookey]

It still works if only some of the people are time-shifting demand. Octopus have already demonstrated that enough of their customer base will time-shift or reduce/increase demand given sufficient incentive that it helps balance the grid at tricky times.

[@chris-non-voter]

I know how much electricity I use each day, with or without heating (I have air source heat pumps). I have measured all my appliances using a Hopi power meter. I give a meter reading to my supplier each month and pay Direct Debit. I don't need anything smarter than that. This is about control, they can cut your supply or charge you more during peak periods. It's all about charging more for supplying less. Wake up people, if smart meters gave the consumer an advantage they wouldn't be forcing them on you.

[@mudandstars182]

On the other hand they charge you less for using at off peak times. I've shifted half my usage to night time. This helps everyone

[@syracuseephelump9995]

@@mudandstars182bit anti social to run a washing machine at night. May save you money, your neighbours suffer the noise pollution. I have a £1500 German washer dryer, when it goes into spin cycle, I hear it all over the bungalow in the daytime, at night half the street would hear it.

[@mudandstars182]

​@syracuseephelump9995 that may be true forbsome people but my washing machine is on the first floor of my house and cant even be heard from my bedrooms when the door is closed. I reduce the spin speed to 900rpm. Also we could get engineers to design quiet appliances.

[@xxwookey]

But smart meters _do_ give the consumer an advantage: variable tariff options and export pricing (and half-hourly logging, albeit in rather inconvenient form). The compulsion part is to enable demand-management across more of the load. We only have 15 years to decarbonise and some people need a bit of encouragement, as this comment section shows.

[@clivehprice2553]

Absolutely right! I have two power meters which give me instantaneous voltage, current or power and can be set to check cumulative energy usage over whatever period. I live in an ex-Council 10th floor flat over which I have very little control by way of improving insulation, air management and construction details. Hence, my only real option is to cut down on usage which I have successfully done and average less than five units per day year-round. Heating huge volumes of air which is being regularly extracted is a mugs game!

[@graemetunbridge1738]

I think the main advantages in 'smart' meters is that dynamic pricing allows us to optimise electricity use ( don't charge the EV when electricity is dear); and sensibly load shed with autmatic shut down of high drain appliances in peak (expensive) demand.

[@Jablicek]

But you don't pay dynamic pricing, your supplier does. You can see what your tariff is, and it doesn't change every hour depending on how much gas we're burning - because that's what sets the commercial price.

[@johnmore4155]

Who pays for these smart meters?? Maybe that's why nobody tells us why our Daily Standing Charge has trebled?

[@Malco-k9c]

What is the carbon footprint of manufacturing installing and maintaining a smart meter? Or what is the energy and associated cost footprint for same?

[@phill6859]

How concerned are you about carbon footprints?

[@Malco-k9c]

Only if the purveyors of that line leave out the costs and carbon footprint of manufacturing and maintenance to distort the benefits eco argument. Basically deceiving by omission.

[@phill6859]

@@Malco-k9c so you don't care about the carbon footprint of anything else, just when you are triggered?

[@formdp]

Actually I'm simply asking a question which you don't seem to be willing or able to answer. That in itself is interesting.

[@wino99999]

Isn't it the same or worse than the manufacturing and maintenance of the traditional meters and reading them every so often?

[@jacko10001-n]

Never trusted them...never had them....prefer to read my own...not much truble and safer.

[@seewhatifound]

Don't need one, won't have one. I know by looking at my meter how much I use a day (roughly 4kwh per day) and how much roughly how much my appliances use e.g. Oven 1kwh per hour same as dishwasher. Read my meter each month send it off and get charged accordingly, just as I have done for 50 years. Don't need a massive brain to work all of this out. Also there is potential health issue with electromagnetic sensitivity affecting those that suffer from that.

[@paddylogan13]

I requested a Smart meter in March last year. I still haven't got a working Smart meter despite being on a street assessed as high probability of connection. I'm so frustrated. I can't talk to the DCC and the service from Octopus has been appalling.

[@Cornz38]

You DON'T want a smart meter.

[@mikebarry229]

I wanted a smart meter but my energy supplier wanted 9 months to do it. So I switched to Octopus Energy and had one installed within 14 days. Absolutely brilliant and has cut my electricity bill in winter (I have electric heating) to 60% of what it was, by allowing me to access the Agile tariff.

[@Cornz38]

@@mikebarry229 Rubbish. You are A: a bot. B: A shill for some Smart Meter company or C: deluded.

[@williamwoods8022]

@@mikebarry229 All that lovely electromagnetic radiation from your meter cooking your cells and everyone else and animal in your house as well as exposed by Barry Trower and others on KZbin etc and you are saving NOTHING as you have already paid for all of your utility bills etc as exposed in the video The Democracy Illusion on my channel.

[@mrb2843]

Open a case with the energy ombudsman.

[@robertowen6499]

No mobile telephone signal where I live.I cannot have one since where we live a 2g/3g signal is required in order to transmit information.Furthermore, 2g/3g is being prematurely withdrawn in this part of Britain.We keep on being told to adopt technologies which are not being thought out properly or being made universally available.For instance soms major electrical appliance manufacturers are now only making warranty information on their products available by use of a "Security Key" device (i.e. a square coded diagram which you need to photograph using a mobile or camera on a laptop computer)No use to many who do not own these devices and therefore discriminating policy!

[@jonb5493]

That's odd.When I worked on this program - for England only, Scotland has an entirely different system by a different vendor - the meters communicated by a dedicated radio network. This prez confirms what I understood. IMHO this radio network was misguided and should never have been selected in the first place.

[@phill6859]

Using 2g or 3g was a bit of an own goal. This video is useless though. A few suppliers are making the most of smart meters and give customers a benefit.

[@polyvg]

I think you'll find that 2G is being retained in much of the UK until something like 2030/2033. And I think smart meters are a major reason for that. 3G has already gone on three out of four networks in my area.

[@phill6859]

@@polyvg 2G is currently 2033 at the latest but likely sooner according to most reports. Probably it's going to turn into a huge game of chicken. When the number of 2g customers on a particular network drops below a certain amount then they will threaten to turn it off. DCC seem convinced that it's got a contractual commitment up to 2033, but they don't say who that is with

[@polyvg]

@@phill6859 Wouldn't be at all surprised. And it would have been very sensible for the network connection module to be replaceable - preferably by the customer. Something like a USB dongle. Although I haven't looked further, I have my doubts this has been catered for.

[@scousepie2]

Tbh: I would not entertain a Smart Meter due to the safety concerns and snooping issues that go along with them. The sharing of my data is also a big issues. If they force a SM on to me I will build a Faraday cage around it.... I'm looking of off grid self sustainable alternatives to get away from these legalised thieves. stay safe ppl

[@clovermark39]

I have be thinking of the faraday cage option but have resisted smart meters so far. I already have an off grid solar set up. Even if just for charging up devices it’s worth it.

[@williamwoods8022]

Everyone should be wanting to know how they are being ripped off by these utility companies and governments etc as they are double dipping conning us into paying again when we have already prepaid via the trusts they are hiding from us as exposed in the video The Democracy Illusion on my channel.

[@JohnBarrington-y8n]

What snooping?

[@scottsmith2173]

I am relucatntly due to have one installed next week. The only reason is all new fixed tariffs now require a smart meter as a condition of the tariff.

[@robtheplod]

Dont fix then??

[@scottsmith2173]

@@robtheplod I wouldn't normally but the increase in unit rates I don't want to pay even more than what I am paying now. So it has backed me in to a corner.

[@shadow-Sun]

@@scottsmith2173 blackmailed you they have and in the future you will regret your decision when they completely control your tariff (im thinking of surge pricing and other things too .

[@BillDavies-ej6ye]

@@scottsmith2173 So they get you either way. As they would, since they set the prices.

[@AntonyClayton-eq1ul]

You have a legal right of choice. And refusal of a smart meter. Just that they don't tell you that.

[@steveunderwood3683]

The DLMS protocol, used for a much of the world's smart metering, was dragged kicking and screaming towards taking security seriously. When I said in presentations years ago that the network needed to be treated like any other financial network I got blank looks. When I pointed out that it actually is a financial network, as it carries billions in billing information, people agreed, then immediately went back to acting like it was not the case. It seemed me the UKs smart meter specifiers focussed mostly on getting a Guinness Book of World Records entry for the greatest number of recorded parameters of any smart meter.

[@DanRyan-v5y]

Government organisations that specify all of this stuff are generally crewed by morons who only care about global warming emergency.

[@johnlee3899]

No chance in hell i will ever have a smart meter conected to my house.

[@70AD-user45]

Thames Water have already said, "install a smart meter or we will put you on a higher tariff" (more expensive bill). Would you have a smart meter under those circumstances.

[@tallullahmoon]

Why would you accept an ultimatum or more a threat? Did you sign a contract and have agreed terms and conditions? Perhaps you should consider it now?

[@70AD-user45]

@@tallullahmoon No, nothing's been signed yet. I still have the old meter, but I will try and get a contract with the meter I've got. I don't trust these smart meters.

[@tallullahmoon]

@@70AD-user45 yes, know your rights and keep them out your home. Best wishes and keep us updated? Thanks

[@Tensquaremetreworkshop]

I was badgered for months to have a smart meter, I finally gave in- provided the communication was not enabled. (Have a document signed by the installer to that effect). I am now being contacted because my meter 'is not working'. They can whistle... One useful feature is that it measures my generation as well as my use. Handy.

[@lonpfrb]

Please advise which smart meter is that?

[@brianlopez8855]

Never collaborate with the Invaders.

[@chrissmith2114]

Smart meters are touted as 'saving power' but they do not, they only tell you what power you are using, but you can get a cheap device to do that anyway. In Australia your smart meter can base your whole months charges on the highest day that month, this is so called 'maximum demand' pricing ...

[@MikeKey-y7l]

I had solar panels installed and my meter was not changed from an analogue meter. During the summer my analogue meter used to go into reverse as the amount of electricity my solar panels made was more than I used. The energy company could not accept this and insisted that a smart meter was installed. Once it was installed the monthly usage of my electricity has increased by roughly 25%, and I had no way of disrupting this as the energy company insisted that they were correct.

[@jamesbarbour8400]

Well of course they're gonna say that - they've got you by the short and curlies now, with that so called Smart Meter installed. However, it is not yet mandatory to have one and if your energy company are giving you the runaround, I'd suggest you contact your local MP to take on your case against the energy company.

[@MikeKey-y7l]

@@jamesbarbour8400 unfortunately I already have the bloody smart meter and to be honest I no longer have the energy to fight.

[@wino99999]

In fact the electricity company were correct in your case as the meter should never have ran backwards (as some did). I presume you were also being paid for your generation by either FITs or SEG, hence you were benefitting twice over from the install of your Solar PV, to the detriment of everyone else who were essentially paying the price for your green energy. So stop complaining about losing out, and just enjoy your bills still being lower than others because of your foresight in having some PV installed, that have probably paid you back 3 fold already!

[@brianlopez8855]

Buy an inline mechanical check meter £20 online from new with a couple of tails. You can check for yourself then.

[@TekAutomatica]

​@@MikeKey-y7l enough energy to comment on KZbin is enough energy to protest against draconian measures however insignificant it might feel - soft water hollows out hard rock. Never give up!

[@synthmaker]

I live in a parallel Universe. In my Universe the smart meter combined with my EV and Octopus Energy is saving me a lot of money every month. Most of my electricity costs me 7p / kWh including running home appliances, heating my home and heating water, charging my EV etc. Even when I drive 1000 miles in one month it just adds £17.5 to my electricity bill. My original smart meter display is working fine, I have it in the lounge and it gives me very useful information, just looking at it I know if the EV is charging, if the water is heating etc. I've stopped using gas for heating. Energy crisis? What energy crisis? Just do your own research, you'll be very surprised.

[@harryblack8686]

Buying a brand new electric vehicle is not saving you money. Unless you bought a cheap old one then the offset of money saving on fuel probably won't even break even by the time you come to sell it.

[@synthmaker]

​@@harryblack8686 It was 3 years old when I bought it 2 years ago, it had already depreciated half of the original cost. I bought it with a loan, what I save monthly covers most of the monthly instalments. Even if I'd scrap it a few years from now, I'd still have saved quite a lot. The insurance is considerably less than my previous Kia Ceed Diesel. There are no scheduled services, no need to change oil, timing belt, spark plugs, brake pads. The only thing you have to do is change the windscreen cleaner fluid and tyres. I guess the battery degradation had already stabilised as I still get around the 280 miles real world range I got when I bought it. I know what you're going to say next, that it's a terrible idea to buy a used EV as the battery will need replacing and will cost more than the car etc etc. Just so you know, I'll never take what you tell me as a fact until I go do my own research based on real numbers, not on headline news from The Telegraph or the Independent or any other main stream media with an agenda to influence the gullible majority of the population.

[@harryblack8686]

@@synthmaker there's no way the few quid you save on fuel covers anywhere near the cost of a 1 year old electric car. Sorry but it doesn't. You're talking nonsense just to cover up the fact it is costing you.

[@synthmaker]

@@harryblack8686 I can prove it with facts that you can go and confirm for yourself and even do the same if you want, you probably don't.

[@wino99999]

​@@harryblack8686and you're delusional as you're not taking into account the much lower service costs of an electric car, up to now, zero road tax, and minimal fuel cost especially if you have Solar.

[@grahamsmith6677]

The grid has known for decades how to balance the distribution based on times of day etc. The govt for decades have dithered around energy policy.

[@AntonyClayton-eq1ul]

There is no actual capacity issue with the national grid. The government is scaremongering to instil fear, and worry. Power cuts would affect the super rich. And power cuts on the super rich will never be permitted to happen...

[@StrixTechnica]

Decades ago, generation sources were completely different from today. There are real grid stability issues that need addressing the more renewables replace conventional 'inertial' generation. But you're quite right about the government dithering around energy policy.

[@colinosborne3877]

No discussion on compatibility of meters when you change your supplier. We had a pulse of second generation meters improvement on this, but now no positive feedback on that. All we see is a little positive propaganda but masses of negative customers complaints. I see no long term advantage for customers, only suppliers and the constant pressure, week by week to install a very un-smart meter.

[@frglee]

I have three traditional electricity meters, installed under a decade back, for my house - the first is for daytime power, the second is for night power and the third is for night storage and water heaters. Meters two and three offer considerably reduced prices. As the time signal that turns them on and off is ceasing to be sent next Summer, my electricity supplier tells me I must have a smart meter installed if I want to continue to use these tariffs. They also infer they can force me to have a smart meter or disconnect my supply if they consider my old meters 'life expired' or 'unsafe'. After researching issues with smart meters, I am really not keen, and am now looking for alternatives. I am told there are suppliers who are presently not demanding smart meters. Is this true?

[@lonpfrb]

Same here and it looks a lot like a coercion approach to me. Worth comparing tarrifs for night/day or single price with your actual use to see if the single price is actually equivalent or better...

[@DanRyan-v5y]

The only way out is to ditch net zero. The only way to do that is vote reform. Ignore that reality and you will be forever complaining about the next indignity the uniparty foists upon you

[@Broadwould]

I've got a digital RTS Siemans E7 meter and EDF have threatened me that they will just turn up and change both my gas and E7 meters if I keep refusing to arrange a day and time with them. I assume they are bluffing even though my boxes are outside. All that will happen when Droitwich 198kHz switches off next July is I will subsequently get billed one standard electricity tariff 24/7 instead of night & day rates as at present.

[@lonpfrb]

@Broadwould Since many people do not have Economy7 the suppliers already have tariffs that blend in the E7 benefits on grounds of fair competition. The real sting in the tail is demand based pricing that is the logical conclusion of near real time demand data. The grid doesn't care, it's just about suppliers profit for shareholders.

[@lonpfrb]

@DanRyan-v5y Reform are willing to deny the reality of climate science which makes them unelectable. They need to get smart enough to agree that they offer better means to the ends, which are fixed...

[@28318511]

Still refusing. 15 years and going. Last year was the first time though they started hinting that my old meter "may" be dangerous.

[@brianlopez8855]

They are lying. If you are concerned their old meter is unreliable you can fit your own mechanical in line. They cost £20 each online new.

[@raypitts4880]

@@brianlopez8855 pull main fuse as you say do it

[@buzx1313]

Of course they are ,😅

[@soundslight7754]

Purpose of smartmeters 1. Collecting information on consumer and consumer behaviour - many usecases legitimate and illicit 2. Eliminating the cost of reading meters 3. Facilitating dynamic pricing to make more money without adding capacity to the system 4. Holding the consumer at ransom to compel them to pay

[@rodneyelliott5995]

I’m now on my third generation of smart meters because of supplier switching and incompatibility issues. My most recent installation hasn’t transmitted data to the service provider for now almost one year. Neither of course does my home display provide any data any more. I have taken up this issue with the service provider on a number of occasions and been given promises of investigations at the very least. Nothing has happened. I think nothing happens because there is nothing that can be done beyond completely new installations. The cheaper and easier option for the service provider is for me to submit meter readings online. Thus, I am still having to attend my out door located meters, hale, rain or shine, to submit reading online to the service provider. I always think of the words of the man who my first smart meters when I questioned the purpose and value of the home display unit. “If you want pot of tea you will put water in the kettle and switch it on!” That just about sums up the usefulness of (working) smart metres for most very ordinary domestic users who, as emphasised in the video, very quickly lose interest in bothering to even look at their home display units, let alone to fine tune their utilities usage to attempt to control their expenditure.

[@xxxged]

You should not have got a smart meter in the beginning. Just say no . Hopefully your not triple jabbed as well😢

[@Zlodej5]

Don't get demotivated by speed, Once you speed video to 1.6x the speed it becomes a realy good video. You will find the speed setting at the bottom of the video next to subtitles. Click settings and then chose speed.

[@captainbuggernut9565]

I'll stick with my old, reliable mechanical meter, thanks. I know what uses energy in my home. I pay my bill and I'm not in debt. What I don't need is this fixation I've seen people with about the cost of a cup of tea. Nor do I need it added to by my electricity being three times the price at 5pm and then half price at 1am. As for meter reading, I like many people just read the meter and send the readings in. No meter person required.

[@christyers2748]

Hi Nick said that we need local storage of energy what a great idea install battery’s in new buildings Charge the batteries in off peak at a cheaper cost rate This will level off the peaks an troffs of generation making the system can manage with less capacity But I will never fit a smart meter

[@SmartBuildingSeries]

Yes it's a good idea and lots of companies are looking at it, we just wrote a report about it - memoori.com/portfolio/energy-manag-grid-interactive-buildings-2024/

[@deanosmith8007]

I have recently had a lovely shiny new mechanical electricity meter installed recently after my old meter reached 20 years of reliable service. I refused a smart meter and after about 10 attempts to try and make me change my mind they gave up and installed a lovely shiny new reliable mechanical meter which will outlast me. Don’t believe them when they say they aren’t available anymore THEY ARE and you can still have a new one installed

[@samanthahardy9903]

Which company? I'm having issues with British gas over the same problem.

[@deanosmith8007]

The replacement meter was supplied by Scottish power , it has a digital readout but is not a smart meter 😊

[@tridens6708]

Energy company They will not remove a smart meter😢😢

[@deanosmith8007]

@@tridens6708 unfortunately once you have a smart meter , they’ve got what they wanted 😤

[@simpsond7862]

I live in Yorkshire and in one of the reports that i have seen suggest that the smart meter doesn't work properly in this area because of signal problems but i am still being asked to have one fitted.

[@brianlopez8855]

Just tell them to DO ONE. Always sue for ANY shocks from their installation on their side of the fuse, they are criminally liable and the fines for them are eye-watering.

[@bryansmith1920]

I'm a 70yr old Brit living on the State Pension of £808 pm + £180 pm company pension scheme top up, So I asked for a Smart Meter for my rented Property to be installed, I don't need Landlords permission for things that improve the Property, I pay a set monthly Price, Dictated, By the Company, I am currently and have been since I started DD payments in 2011, In Credit, And yet receive, no interest payment from the company, My Bank pay's interest on my savings, Why can I not be paid interest, on my money this Company holds,

[@fuzzhypno9093]

Clear informed and very reasuring that there are intelligent people out there looking into modern problems ,, a rare thing in these days * Thank you , i have a lock on my elec box to stop them changing my meter , im waiting them out for them to prove that its in my best interest ;)

[@jakestewart5812]

And what happened in the 14yrs in-between.

[@geoffhines1541]

Are these smart meter immune to radio interference from an in house transmitter with a peak output of up to 1000Watts across the Licenced Amature radio bands from 137kHz up to 20+ GHz.??

[@mrhuffler9791]

Probably not. 🙄

[@geoffhines1541]

@@mrhuffler9791 That's what I thought! I am resisting these installs until it is mandatory for our house. We send them the readings every Month.

[@sonique7]

Amature radio transmitters must not exceed 400w in the UK

[@geoffhines1541]

@@sonique7 Unless the new proposal goes ahead for 1000W PEP?

[@kellyeye7224]

Doesn't help when you exaggerate the cost of 'boiling a kettle' - it works out at 1 or 2p not 10-15p.

[@Simonsimon-fy3hq]

Wouldn't that depend on the type of kettle and the amount of water in it? Most kettles can boil around 1.7 litres of water in about four minutes. Based on that, I would expect to pay 6.8p to boil a full kettle.

[@chonpincher]

@@Simonsimon-fy3hq So 1 or 2 pence to boil enough for a mug of tea.

[@xxwookey]

It's about 0.5p (0.02kWh) per mugful, so if you only put one mug of 20C water in then it's less than 1p to boil. But if you inefficiently fill it it'll be 6-8 times as much depending on kettle size. Way too many people do exactly that (fill it every time) out of habit.

[@daviddanson673]

Nick Hunn's explanation of the smart meter fiasco is brilliant - thank you Nick!

[@charleswillcock3235]

Interestingly discussion listen to this at double speed

[@bobwalker7531]

I have 2 supplies with new meters installed a year ago. Different suppliers, one installed a dumb meter, one installed a smart meter. The smart meter does not work in that it will not send readings because there is no signal in this area. I read both meters monthly and send the readings to the suppliers.

[@timbrooks2763]

Dont wash so much to save money lol, how about not charging so much, we have our own oil but the governments families spend it all, SICKNING,

[@AntonyClayton-eq1ul]

That's the objective, which you have achieved for them - self-rationing.

[@matthew-j7q]

I had a letter last week from OVO saying my key meter will soon be phased out and should contact them to have a smart meter installed , I just ignored it , today I got another letter reminding me , so , what's the set up ? , do I need to really change it .

[@Skate-Steve]

They are lying mate, I had to report ovo to the energy ombudsman due to their blatant harassment tactics via phone, email and letters/cards, there is no proof they save money, there is plenty not working, and there is tons of evidence these do not benefit the bill payer at all, even if you can ignore all that, ask your self why they are so aggressive in their tactics if these so called smart maters are that good, they would sell themselves! there is no law that says I must have one, after I reported ovo I got an apology and a bill credit of £50, they have not contacted me since

[@grahamleiper1538]

Smart meters are good for time of use and intelligent tariffs. They're utterly useless for anyone else. In home display has never worked, but honestly it's not worth the grief of trying to get someone to fix it because phone app is much better anyway. Roll out has been a skip fire.

[@phill6859]

They are also good for the people who complain that" they haven't given a meter reading in five years and now the supplier wants to be paid what I owe them."

[@robinbennett5994]

My in home display has no idea about my TOU tariff. Every time I charge the car, it thinks it cost £10 when it's more like £3. Add in solar panels and a battery and it's really got no idea what's going on. Most of the time it just sits there saying zero watts because the battery is doing all the work.

[@nua1234]

Ireland who introduced smart meters later than the UK, has managed to avoid the problems which occurred in the UK. However Ireland restricted the scope to half hour automated usage reporting, and in addition the meters also allow for electricity exporting. The Irish network operator did the rollout and owns the meters.

[@SmartBuildingSeries]

Thanks for the comment. Interesting to make that comparison

[@cindyharrison4191]

My smart meter only worked for about a year. Now about 4 years later are they going to fix it.

[@darrenmurphy6251]

theres more going on too , smart meters are being installed where theres no cell coverage, and the meters have a built in contactor to disconnect your supply anytime utilities feel like ,meant for non-payment i assume ,but link it to an it system as competant as fujitsu horizon ,yea ! and theres the extra cost of running a smart meter because it now charges for power factor (phase distortion caused by capacitive or inductive loads) waiting for utilities to say smart meters systems are "robust" lol

[@phill6859]

If they want to cut you off, they will do it no matter what kind of meter you have. They are more likely to switch you to prepayment. Which is actually cheaper now. Having an old prepayment meter was a pain, a smart prepayment meter has no real down sides but will save you money.

[@mikebarry229]

Doesn't charge for power factor in domestic installations, just commercial.

[@darrenmurphy6251]

@@phill6859 less likely to disconnect wrong household if its sending an engineer out to cut your cable is what I was thinking, it's now just a keyboard button less oversight and no opertunity to contest it

[@darrenmurphy6251]

@@mikebarry229 good to know thx

[@robrs210]

Oh please. Have you seen the size of a 100A breaker. They are bigger than most smart meters. So how are you going to turn the power off with them 🤣 9:01

[@sjchan3199]

I was 'asked' if i wanted a smart meter i told them i read and work out my own bills and am accurate within about 5p . Why do i need a smart meter to tell me my use and cost when i am the smart person not tje meter?. They were speechless looool❤❤

[@mikestrange6969]

You missed the point when talking about costs of installation versus the cost of meter readers that installation is essentially a one-off cost whereas the meter reader is a recurring one. The IHD is mainly unnecessary as they have been surpassed by apps which provide good graphical information as well as spot measurement. My favourite is Hugo. Unfortunately they have also been a breeding ground for ludicrous conspiracy theories.

[@docastrov9013]

Anything that has to be forced on us by propaganda or threats is generally not advantageous to us.

[@williamwoods8022]

People who use the term conspiracy theory are CLUELESS about where that term came from and how it was brought out to demonise people exposing the corruption being carried out by the CIA and secret services worldwide on behalf of the mafias that own and control them and everything else. Experts such as Barry Trower have been exposing these smart devices etc that are cooking the cells of all living things with their electromagnetic radiation and he has all of the documentary EVIDENCE from the governments, military, health bodies and companies to back everything that he says. The same mafias that are being exposed in the video The Democracy Illusion on my channel who want rid of most people from this planet as per that video.

[@mrrcassidy]

Every time someone suggests I have a smart meter I ask them to put in writing exactly how I will be better off and by how much. 12 years and counting, the silence is deafening.

[@evelbsstudio]

These meters are rubbish. I setup a meter behind the smart meter and found the smart meter is recording more than I am using. Of course you can not contest the accuracy of the meters when installed as it effects the utility companies profit.

[@kinkajoo73]

I did the same thing with a smart water meter. It was over-reading by 40%, and they wanted to charge me based on that. Got it removed and agreed to have its accuracy 'independently tested'. Discovered they'd given it a software update Before the test, so insisted on copies of before and after software. They destroyed a 15yr-lifespan meter, before its accuracy could be tested, at less than 5 months in use. Guilty, methinks.

[@brianlopez8855]

Smart meters assume a steady voltage even though it isn't. They only measure flow - amps. Your mechanical meter relies both on slight voltage variations as well as flow. That is one prime reason for disparity.

[@xxwookey]

@@brianlopez8855 That's simply not true. all electricity meters, dumb or smart, measure both current and voltage. (A current-clamp only measures current - perhaps that's what you were thinking of?)

[@buzx1313]

​@@brianlopez8855They measure Watts not amps

[@boriss.861]

Smart Meters can be tuned off by the supplier. They can talk to smart appliances and charge a different rate depending on that appliance. eg a fridge is charged less than an electric vehicle. Almost 20% of the UK electricity comes via European Interconnects.

[@ChrisPhelps-od8ct]

A smart meter cannot differentiate between which appliance is using electricity. What it will be able to do is switch appliances or chargers on or off according to pricing criteria thereby improving operator efficiency and saving customers money.

[@normansmart7502]

That chap said it,it's all about controll if you are naughty they can turn your power off

[@ChrisPhelps-od8ct]

Imagine you had a prepayment meter installed and didn't buy any credit, guess what, you'd be disconnected and it has always been this way.

[@abarratt8869]

Regarding turning the heating down to 50degrees to see if the house is sufficiently well insulated; please don't leave it there, especially if you have a hot water cylinder. It needs to be kept high enough long term to keep legionnaire's bacteria down.

[@MichaelLatimer-g5y]

Any thing that says smart isn’t roads electrical not needed

[@King_Noel]

I have some loose wire on the supplier side so can't have a smart meter fitted. none of the suppliers appear to be able to contact the people who own the cables. Can't be bothered as I have Shelly clamps on everything in my breakers and smart plugs everything so nothing it for me

[@matty506]

spent 7 years fitting smart meters and honestly it's a shitshow. So many don't work, the back office support is awful and really a traditional 2rate meter would of worked better if you were trying to get off peak tariffs. IMO it was rushed out far too quickly and the obvious issues were ignored to hit targets set by government. As far as the issues with poor workmanship I think it would be at the same levels as any other trade out there and I came across more dodgy work left by electricians than meter fitters. The ideal that companies wanted to be able to switch off meters if customers don't pay doesn't really add up as it's illegal to leave customers with no power, the only tool they had to deal with this was to fit a key meter. Commercial premises can be left off supply but domestic can not.

[@samanthahardy9903]

I told my energy supplier I don't want a smart meter. My prepayment gas meter had a BR code and call help on the display. I called for an engineer to replace it with a non smart meter and the engineer turned up without one. I've not had gas for over a week now. I was told when the gas runs out they would send an engineer out the same day but still nothing. Winter is coming and I have fibromyalgia so the cold makes my pain worse. Any advice would be appreciated in getting my energy supplier to get my supply back on.

[@RobertSmith-di5ll]

My inside monitor has been broken for over 2 years - no sign of a replacement - "We are a bit busy" - complained to regulator "Can't help - yo'll have to wait - case closed"

[@davidkidd3975]

We need coal fired homes

[@SmartBuildingSeries]

😆

[@waltdisnenycopyright8048]

Yep log/coal burner, fantastic

[@trudilm3864]

A sane, reasonable, rational perspective. What a breath of fresh air.

[@terryhoath1983]

26.40 - 26.50. What on Earth are you saying Mr. Hunn ? THERE ARE NO PATENTS INVOLVED WITH HEAT PUMPS, neither do you require any bright young things. It is absolute basic technology which goes back more than 150 years. They are nothing more than fridge-freezers in reverse. If you want to be really sophisticated, you may decide to add a thermocouple ! Unless you want your garden dug up at huge expense for earth-source, people rely upon air-source. These grossly expensive contraptions installed by third generation double-glaziers, may cut householders' bills over the year (if you ignore the capital cost), you don't want them in the Summer, they may be VERY efficient in the Spring and Autumn when outside temperatures are 8-16 degrees when they may produce a return of up to ten to one ..... but they are very dangerous when a winter high pressure settles over the country (a Beast from the East for example), wind turbines producing just 5% of average output (very low wind speeds if any, including in the North Sea where a few turbines may continue to lazily lollop around), ridiculous BEVs doubling their demand on the grid, and heat pumps TO WHICH WE MUST ADD THAT ON VERY COLD NIGHTS, HEAT PUMPS MAY USE MORE ELECTRICITY PER UNIT OF HEAT THAN RUNNING A FAN HEATER. (0.7 of a kWh of heat in the house whilst the heat from the full kWh used to run the contraption is lost to the outside air (people tend to have the things outside). Whilst heat pumps MAY give some savings for householders OVER THE WHOLE YEAR (again, if we ignore the capital cost), THEY ARE A DISASTER FOR THE GRID.. I have a different and dirt cheap heat pump that is probably beyond your comprehension. It is called a 30 watt fan. I have a small garden room with a polycarbonate roof. It gets hot in there. In the Spring and Autumn and on bright days in the middle of Winter, I have the door to it open and run the fan. I heat the entire bungalow (about 1,600 square feet) by allowing the warmed air from the garden room to be slowly pushed around. Furthermore, because of the slight movement of air,, therefore mixing, the air is warm floor to ceiling ... none of that nasty hot by the ceiling but cold and draughty round the ankles. I use fan heaters when the garden room ... and/or the West facing patio door do not provide enough heat. For those who are out at work all day, a slightly more sophisticated system involving a thermostat with a bit of ducting may be necessary. Other than in the coldest of weather, we also have at least one window open. The air from outside is (unless you live in Manchester) drier than the air in most people's houses and the dry air FEELS far warmer than damp air ... if nothing else, human beings are filthy beasts and breathe out moisture all the time .. add to that the boiling of kettles and cooking.

[@therealrobertbirchall]

Yes well done. I built a glazed heat store on a south facing wall of our house with full hight glazzed doors into the main living room. The room has an insulated concrete floor and solid concrete blocks holding the roof up, the whole thing gets really warm in the sun and heats the whole house, we can use the large glazzed doors to regulate the heat in the house. And we get plenty of tomatoes as well.

[@johnkeepin7527]

This year, I went for one for both electricity and gas at home. A few comments on it all. Note the complex bureaucracy: there are four owners in one cabinet here: Me (the meter cabinet), the DNO as far as the fuses on the service cable, the utility firm (OVO), and DCC (the network operator). Although it was heavily promoted by OVO, as I’m on a Feed in Tariff deal with Ofgem (in effect, though run by OVO) which was originally set up to use 50% deemed export, it seemed useful to move to actual metered export, as the new one does record it. I knew that the real value is often well over 50% at the brighter times of year, so we’ll see if it’s useful. Not a large chunk of cash, though. The other feature that might emerge is remote control of certain things, like battery electric vehicle chargers. The modern standard allows remote load curtailment that could be used as an alternative to having to upgrade the district network to handle the load. Although the local DNO here recently did a major buried cable renewal job (on account of faults), they did a like for like one, and I know it could not handle every house in the street charging EVs overnight etc. Intermittent spikes in demand are one thing, constant loads for several hours are something else.

[@mbak7801]

My smart meter gives me electricity at £0.07 per KWh for six hours at night and occasionally during the day. A time shifting battery moves the cheap electricity to the daytime. My smart meter even allows me to get free electricity when there is a surplus. If you don't want that then fine, pay more. I do not use it to find which appliances are more efficient as I actually do not care. A heavy washing load may cost 28p. Saving 5p on that, again who cares. A heat pump tumble drier means I can dry for as long as I want when I want again for pennies. All this fuss over a tool that gives me a stonking amount of savings. Well if it floats your boat pay 400% more. Mad but I know some people prefer to over pay and then complain. Weird.

[@andrewwhitehead2002]

Spot on.

[@robinbennett5994]

Yeah, these comments are weird. It's as if no one watched the video.

[@richardsterne2875]

I am wondering if I cover my smart meters in cooking foil it will render them unusable to my supplier? The only people it benefits is it gives them to charge you more at peak times!!!!

[@raypitts4880]

good idea 2 problems foil is a metal dont let it touch electric next if you succeed then the foil has to earthed this what captures the signal to ground in cb days we put foil round the bottom of the Ariel and made it tough the frame naughty handle handy man

[@fredflintstone1]

There is no benefit to the consumer having a smart meter as far as I can see yes you can get a reduced tariff at a certain time of the 24 hours of course we had that years ago without a smart meter and all a smart meter allows is control by the seller of how much you use??? or when you can use it if the Net Zero rubbish says it can not supply that amount of power

[@meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee2]

I was suspicious of smart meters, but eventually got one so I could go on the Agile Octopus tariff, where the cost of electricity varies in half hour slots, depending on the relationship between demand and supply. Looking at the costs the unit price is less than what I used to pay except for between 4pm and 7pm. On sunny windy days the unit price sometimes drops to below zero, at which point I fire up the hot water, underfloor heating and start washing everything in sight. I am retired and live on my own so I am not time constrained. So moving my normal evening meal which is one of my main electric uses to after 7pm, when the price drops is not a problem. When being paid to use electricity I have been known to have my evening meal at 3pm or do my washing at 2am, but that is as much as doing it for the hell of it as the saving. But when all is said and done I have reduced my electricity bill by about 30%. Although I can not help but dream/wonder about what the reaction from say Greta Thunburg would be were she to notice me with a couple of fan heaters on my front lawn, trying to make a profit by using as much negatively priced electricity as possible.

[@BarryFlo58]

Gvmt pushed for these smart meters and initially wanted every property to have one installed and it was not for the benefit of the consumer but the gvmt. Suppliers buy electricity from the generating companies and their rate changes throughout the day depending on demand but the consumers never get these benefits of alternating rates however, with the smart meter, the suppliers are able to set your tariff and keep it at the top end . Also able to cut the supply if you fail to keep your payments up to date.

[@sightlines9293]

Ditch Milliband, net-0 and renewables. Dig up the coal, pump more oil and gas, increase the storage. Problem solved and the plants will thrive on the co2.

[@MentalLentil-ev9jr]

And we can all enjoy the pink fairies flying around the garden. Seriously, just learn some basic science.

[@grokitall]

we have passed peak oil, which will only get more expensive from now on. coal is either deep mined and expensive, or strip mined with all sorts of issues around the environment and governance. gas is also running out, so will only go up in price. this is before you get to the costs of global warning. here you have a choice. 1, do nothing and spend a lot more deaiing with flooding, extreme weather and sea level rise. 2, try and mitigate the causes, which costs more in the short term but is massively cheaper than option 1. in either case, the cheapest option is to take steps to reduce waste, which is a lot cheaper, but retrofitting old housing stock can only be done well when you are moving out and selling to new owners.

[@xxwookey]

@@grokitall I'd disagree with your last point: you can retrofit houses whilst living in them. I've done mine over the last 17 years. It's is messy, but it's not impossible. I even gave a talk about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYfGp55vjNOsrZY

[@501isa]

On the heat pump side of things I think they should be a add on section of equipment to a combi boiler, where you can just remove a panel off the side and unbolt a section from the closed loop and connect the heat pump into it like a back boiler. Then just use a standard 8 pin molex where it could be standardised to have a 12V a ground, open closed contacts and a CAN bus. Things are needing low level heat and the conditions are good then it can run the heat pump to bring the loop temperature up. Then have staged burners so gas and air flow can be slowed down to give more time for heat transfer then the flue exhausts into the housing of the heat pump giving it more energy density it can draw upon, in winter when more heat is required the heat from the boiler exhaust could also be used to remove the need for defrost cycles that the heat pump would require as it’s already getting warmer than atmospheric air pumped into the housing. The boiler would still be doing the actual heavy lifting for heating but it would allow a hybrid approach where the heat pump could be a down the line add in or allow other systems like wood burners with back boilers to be more easily integrated into a heating system by bringing a CAT6 cable connected to a cheap controller board that’s bringing the pump in the boiler on with a set of contacts, or things could go further by using a CAN set up to have temp sensing rad valves to automatically do temperature balance by having a small wax motor that can move the valve a little between where the manual setting on the radiator stat has been moved to. But it should be a open source wiring set up with no internet connection outside of a separate bolt on. After all people tend towards wanting to stay warm and not have to pay loads of money to stay warm, like the Chinese diesel heaters.

[@PE53]

So many people pretending 14 years of tory rule never happened.

[@simony2801]

Better than 1 minute of labour misrule.

[@AntonyClayton-eq1ul]

Not least the Tories. Presently lining up a new leader for the next term of office. As if.

[@anonnemo2504]

So, a smart meter display panel may only function for 12 months? What use would a smart meter without a functioning display be? That's my mind made up about whether to have a smart meter installed!

[@meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee2]

The smart meter display I have is useless as the ongoing price of use it shows is not the tariff I am on. It also has an annoying habit of randomly changing the display to other reading than the one I set it to. I spoke to the installer about it asking what good it was, as I only turn things on when I want to use them, so have to pay what that costs regardless. He mentioned someone who was alerted to a fault on his immersion heater, as the remote flagged up that there was a suspicious back ground use of power. So it seems that there is a chance of the remote display being useful, in much the same way as there is a chance of winning the lottery. If you can take advantage of variable pricing however, the smart meter itself may be worth considering. It all depends on your electricity use habits. My brother for example gets rather pleased with himself when the electricity price per unit dips below zero, and he is being paid per unit used while putting 14kW into his electric cars.

[@anonnemo2504]

@@meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee2 I suppose there may be opportunities here and there to save a few quid but I doubt it would be worth the time and effort to investigate what they are. Perhaps the more significant ones are for those who have EVs but that is another technology I have no intention of adopting. I'm going to keep my "dumb" meters for as long as I can. I noted from the video, however, that if it ceases to function, an energy supplier may replace it with whatever type of meter it wants. Thanks for your comment and describing your experience of using a "smart meter"!

[@Brendaontravels]

Interesting, think about the customer, what a novel idea. Neither govt nor energy suppliers think, nor think about customers. Smart meters a bit like central bank digital currency it's a solution to a problem no one has identified. Govt wasting billions on this 'monitoring' technology, which is its main purpose. I don't need a gadget to know how much energy I use. The reason energy is increasing is because all the 'technology' gadgets people use, need a lot of juice. NOT to mention the amount of juice technology companies need to run their servers 24/7. As for heat pumps, more inefficiency. No, No, No to any of it. Time to leave people to think for themselves. Energy companies can't get their customer service and billing correct, shouldn't be let loose with technology. Supply the service and let people pay for it. As for solar panel and wind mills! not green, ineffective and inefficient. Lest we forget, we gave up windmills when we industrialised! Govt policy, following the WEF 4th ind revolution (God spare us from these lunatics) We're going back to the dark ages.

[@Cagsjdr5]

I’m completely off grid in rural Western Australia, until going off grid I didn’t give much thought to how much power I consumed, or how each appliance added to the overall daily wattage. I currently only have 770w of panels running, 2x138ah batteries, a 3000w inverter, and a 2kw Honda generator to charge the batteries and supplement evening power. With a little juggling I run a 12v fridge and lights, a 240v 800w water pump, skymesh satellite and modem, TV, Chromecast, phone, iPad, old iMac, and 18v Makita chargers. It’s Just enough power.. lol I’m about to put in a 10000kw Solar system with 14kw of battery storage.

[@patthewoodboy]

I dont Know of a single person who checks their meter before and after boiling the kettle , this guy is talking BS

[@jonesmark45]

I live most of the year (esp winter) overseas and my small property in the UK is empty. Nevertheless I am charged a daily rate of £0.46p a day, so almost £180 a year for nothing. Why can I not do the same as I do with my car, in that I do not pay a road tax unless I use it on the road. I asked my leccy company if I could have it turned off, but they told me the meter would need removing and I would have to pay for a new meter when I did want to use electricity..is this correct or would a smart meter be able to do this?

[@stevecox-u8y]

Give Nick Millibands job and save us !

[@colin_boyle]

As someone who’s spent 6 years working in Smart Metering, while elements of this are correct, there’s lots of (I’ll be charitable) misunderstandings.

[@johnie2johnie]

All the people moving around in the background is a total distraction and an illustration of the poorly organised situation with this podcast. The main presenter lacks gravitas,

[@scallywagII]

@@johnie2johnie If you want great production values, may I suggest you go to the cinema.

[@Jakob_DK]

The electricity prices change each hour as said on the Nordpool day-a-head auction N2ex. As consumers we can take advantage of this or pay a premium. Washing or charging the car when the price is low are ways to take advantage of changing prices.

[@scallywagII]

Actually wholesale prices change every half hour. Prices are published every afternoon for the previous day. An agile tariff allows the consumer to choose the cheapest greenest time to use electricity.

[@johntimbrell]

What these two probably don't even know so they cannot advise you of the UK real law. They probably do not know the difference between legal and lawful. Have I lost you? If so, you as well as the two in the video are part of the problem. You probably know the phrase "an Englishman's home is his castle" . What most people don't know is that phrase has the rule of law -a lawful rule. Any legal statute that allows authorities to your home can be countered by using the lawful rule of law. I have proved this three times by stopping police assisting bailiffs who had legal court warrants to force entry to homes. I quote the legal Criminal Law Act 1977 section 6 which confirms the lawful constitution. It states that ANYONE commits an offence if they force entry to an occupied property where the occupier objects unless they have lawful authority. Legal warrants are not lawful. I doubt if many will use this to stop smart meters being forced on them because most people believe that the government can control them.

[@lonpfrb]

How can court orders not be legal? That's claiming that the court didn't know the law..

[@johntimbrell]

@@lonpfrb Court orders are LEGAL but they may not be lawful. If you learn the difference you will understand how Betty Boothroyd when she was speaker in parliament stopped parliament discussing a new proposed legal law because it was unlawful -that is against our constitution and stated cases. Since her time the corrupt speakers have allowed laws to be passed which are unlawful. The hate crime laws and lockdown laws are examples. If individuals know the difference they can challenge the courts or better still the Crown prosecution service before going to court. They will usually drop the case. The CPS dropped a large number of cases after the police arrested people for breaking the lockdown laws. The reason is that only a properly constituted court can order imprisonment which is what the lockdown is. Presumably the CPS dropped the cases because they didn't want people such as you to learn the difference that a not guilty publicised result would show. We need the legal law but our corrupt parliament is abusing us. Thanks for asking. I was just as ignorant as you -and I mean that in the nicest possible way. Your remark, "That's claiming that the court didn't know the law." may be true but often times they know the REAL law but do not tell you. People go to prison for not TV licence because they don't know the law. Check it out. "No one can be imprisoned for debt"

[@Skate-Steve]

Thank you for the post, interesting.

[@nickjung7394]

Is there a law requiring energy suppliers to supply energy to individual properties? If not, the suppliers can simply refuse to supply energy to any property without a smart meter!

[@johntimbrell]

@@nickjung7394 Why did you bother to comment without doing your own research? What you call energy suppliers are not in law the suppliers of the energy. In my opinion, (go on prove me wrong) the Government controls the National Grid by legislation. The grid generate the electricity. The government then licence companies who are controlled by a government corporation known as Ofgen. The bottom line is that the government are the supplier. The law is (purposely?) confused but I believe the legislation ensures that all premises receive a supply. (Except they can ignore their own legislation to cut power in times of stress)

[@davidroberts1661]

In Australia they are cutting your power and they charge you more at some times People here do not want them They pay you $/500 but they change the degrees you have set on you air conditioning

[@johntrinick712]

There's no benefit to the customers. If you're not careful with energy usage without a smart meter, you're unlikely to be careful with it. It's purely a way of introducing higher tariffs at peak times. Anyone who says otherwise is just telling lies.