Can Sonja Outsmart Grit In Fog?

[@SpookSkellington]

"3 recons per day keep the artillery away" - Gusto, who may or may not have an addiction

[@MercenaryPen]

Gusto can stop any time they want

[@masterchiefkenobi4821]

i mean it worked, we just saw 3 artillerys all game

[@paxluporum4447]

I attack... the fog.

[@zekenotech]

"I wanna see 3 arty, right now." *Proceeds to build a Comically Large Neotank.*

[@SteamWolf320]

“What channel is the arty?”

[@damie9412]

LMAOO

[@alex_zetsu]

The look on his face when he saw the neotank was priceless.

[@JonathanToolonie]

"My disappointment is immeasurable." - Mangs

[@gartersnake21]

Best moment in the vod

[@shigerufan1]

I mean, two more turns and Sonja would have managed to turn the fog game into a standard one with all those recons lol.

[@gaming_bigfoot]

Star Wars Battlefront: _Watch those wrist rockets!_ Team Fortress 2: _Watch those crit rockets!_ Advance Wars: _Watch those Grit Rockets!_

[@Brown95P]

Truly an universal meme like few others. 👌

[@Darkness5423]

Star Wars Battlefront: _Watch those wrist rockets!_ "Me having played it for like 15 years and hitting that corner just to get rocketed through the face" Me: Indeed Wrist Rocket was detected.

[@Raptor747]

Mangs: "For the love of god, build artillery!" Axadro: "No, I don't think I will."

[@Armedus]

"Don't build missle, missles are awful." **sad Missle-Chan noises** 🚀😔🚀

[@magicalcapi9148]

even in maps made for missiles, they're barely useful they're just so bad

[@alex_zetsu]

I think missiles as pre-deployment work great on some maps to force places to not just fly to certain areas. As for why anyone would build them? Ummm, maybe a Grit player who doesn't want to make AA?

[@magicalcapi9148]

@@alex_zetsu No, even Grit prefers AA because missiles cost so much. You're giving away a lot of your ground presence for something that'll likely not be useful. AAs already have such great movement and damage to air units that missiles are redundant.

[@kirbyis4ever]

​@@magicalcapi9148What about high income games? Will missile chan ever shine?

[@CtisGaming]

20:00 It's actually a really good idea here to spam recons. Arty is cost effective when trading against tanks with an infantry wall, but not against recons as they shred through both for less. It also gives Sonja the sight and initiative on each engagement. Plus it also helps deal with battlecopters better than tanks. The only reason to stop would be if Grit actually builds tanks to counter them/ guard his artillary.

[@Mangs1337]

I agree recon spam is good against Grit, at least early on, but against a competent Grit who had a proper number of Artillery and good walls, Sonja recons won't cut it when it comes to breaking through those walls. She needs some AA and Tanks to get through some of the tougher units protecting the squishy arty in the back, recons simply won't cut it and will leave arty on too high HP and Sonja will get blasted off the map once Grit's power comes in.

[@MojoMonkey]

also as Sonja, her tanks have almost as much vision as a normal recon, so I feel like she can afford to buy fewer than other COs

[@alex_zetsu]

Tanks and recons are great at striking unprotected artillery, but recons just aren't all that great at breaking through the walls. One Sonja has 7 recons, that's probably enough and she should invest in some battlecoptors and tanks.

[@SuttonDJ92]

Mangs: “Buddy I want to see 3 arty coming out from you right now” Grit: *builds a Neotank* Mangs: *stares into camera* I’m dying 😂

[@FedoraReshiramGaming]

Mangs : Alrighty Buddy, i wanna see '3' artys right now outa you! Axadra : *Builds a Neotank* Rick Harrison from Pawn stars walks in and says : best He can do is a Neotank and even then we're taking a 'huge' risk with that Mangs : *Poker Face*

[@MeteoraMir]

The shoulder of spite is capturing that corner

[@jacka7275]

2:24 Missle-chan won't stand for such disrespect

[@FidoriaSky]

Dont worry sonja missile chan have more vision its better

[@johnfanjoy3469]

"no recons" vs "all recons" in fog. The winner will surprise no one!

[@doubl2480]

This was a very funny game. Didn't expect the Sonja player to spam recons. They really wanted that max vision!

[@haveyoutakenyourjoymygoods943]

The egg finally gave power to the people, and he recieves an almost endless amount of AW content, a fair trade.

[@ShadowReaperX07]

18:40 Known in other game circles as a 'Win more'. If the Rocket is proving valuable (or significantly more valuable than an Artillery would be in it's place), you were already winning, and as such its effectiveness is being over-stated by this fact. If you're losing, the Rocket is going to do absolutely nothing as it's both impossible to move effectively to get positioning value, and it's not worth over 2* the cost of an Artillery that is both easier position in addition to being cheaper. As far as games go. This is about peak 800 MMR baboon-brain. It is however fun to watch even if it does feel a bit like bashing stones together.

[@yocomehelp]

i really liked watching the low level match! as someone who really enjoy watching AW and considers getting into it, this shows that u dont need to be chessmaster 3000 to play, which is something ive felt when the only content around is super high lvl matches! This low lvl content makes me WAY more hype to get started playing, even though i dont have any previous experience! Also disapointed how u didnt yell at yellow for seing battlecopters and NEVER building even a single AA ;)

[@IcerFreakyNana]

I had the exact same feeling! Sure, it's extremely enjoyable to watch the high level matches and the strategy of grandmasters, but seeing matches like these gives me a feeling of "Alright, I really like this game. I could play against this opponent or one at around the same level, I'd probably make some mistakes and not get demolished before day 10."

[@bennethbugna7795]

The first advance wars game I played was AW2. I was a young teen and I remembered my favorite units were Sami (she looked hot lol) and Eagle (because he gave me Vegeta vibes). Anyhow, when it came to Sonja though I never once used her outside story mode. I just never liked the fog vision buff and counter. I was more of a go for the offensive rather than strategy rip. Grit though, I came to appreciate him more when I started using him in VS maps. I loved the idea of just sitting still and waiting for opponents to walk up to be then BOOM rockets away haha! He was the chill guy indeed.

[@Klokinator]

"Can Sonya beat Grit?" "Yes! If the Grit player plays like a complete bellend!"

[@FreSch_Dude]

I wanna see more low level matches. Mangs' reactions are too good, and as an ELO floor rag myself, I'd love to see matches that are only slightly higher than me instead of in a league out of my reach.

[@DeejusProductions]

Sonja player is a Numin enjoyer, love to see it😎

[@gregc2236]

I loved seeing a replay with "normal" players, I learnt so much! It would be great if you made this a regular thing, like every Tuesday you post a video featuring regular players.

[@fox7757]

I will never think missles are bad when they can do TWO roles at the same time. While extremely costly, it's very useful in fog of war to ambush your opponent's air units when they get into range and vision.

[@bienhy5120]

Missile can work once grit death ball are moderately set up. The issue is that ususally when grit missile become better than grit AAir, the game is pretty much won by grit and what matter is the early game when opponent will harras grit often. AAir is a better response because of the price, effective range (6 move + 1 range) and missile 4 tire move is awful. Also unlike recon that can be positioned at the frontline, missile can’t hence the 5 vision it has often give 3 or less vision in practice which mean they give as much vision as a tank in a realistic scenario

[@alex_zetsu]

Mechs being terrible against artillery while tanks (and recons) can easily threaten them just shows how important movement is. A mech is basically a slow tank. The only way a 10 HP mech is going to get to fire on an artillery is your opponent went into increment, or they somehow trapped themselves by moving artillery before their infantry.

[@thereynaldosan7695]

Or with an increase movement power

[@Crescentfangs]

This Gusto guy made me remember when Eggman had CO contest to be featured in his romhack AW game. I created a Yellow Comet CO named Mori who's specialized in Forrest Tile + Recons. That's how his playstyle should be, recons spam. XD

[@MercuryA2000]

You know that "That's enough slices!" Meme? That's how I felt about those recons.

[@gizel4376]

actually i like that he didn't go for the artillery box, like you said, it's not a good strategy in fog, but i still think he should have build alot more than 3

[@JonathanToolonie]

The Grit player plays like a Sami whilst the Sonya player plays like she's declaring war against the Fog itself.

[@Helga-of-Skadi]

Grit's army has artillery as it's backbone, and with Axadro's 3 artillery, he will crumple like a forsaken cruton at the first sign of pressure.

[@jonathanstark6159]

I want to see Gusto vs Newman. The Recon violence would be epic lol

[@nlald]

I was rooting for Axadro to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat with a sneaky HQ cap right at the end.

[@goldenspiral6008]

Sonja is my favourite CO. She's so fun to play. I'm really thankful that AWBW has a default tier list system so that you can reasonably play any CO no matter how weak they are.

[@Ahrieffect]

I personally don't hate heavy amounts of recons against grit, I had an eagle game recently at 1200 where having 7-8 recons helped a ton, since they can still chunk artys. It let me pump out a copter more often. (2 base)

[@chaosryans]

I am impressed. With how grit was going I was surprised people actually resigned. Some of those kinds of games go 10 turns past where they really should

[@maxspecs]

Mangs's reaction to this nutty lower level play is pretty entertaining, I hope we see more of these types of games.

[@wildheart1988]

18:35 - Yes, as a noob Grit main (20 years ago, but would probably still main him if I start playing again) I loved building rockets and missiles due to their immense range back then and pop Super Snipe instead of Snipe Attack (I didn't know they grant the same fire power) because big range go brrrr And I didn't understand economy value back then Grit need Recons and Infantries as his eyes more than others since Artillery only has 1 vision in contrast to Tank which has 3 Also man, this Sonja really wanted to turn this game into no fog game

[@madogthefirst]

Missiles have 5 view, I think.

[@wildheart1988]

but you normally don't build them in competitive

[@boldandbrash9447]

As a kid I thought Sonja was kinda underpowered. I didn't have other people to play with, but also the AI doesn't care about fog or her ability to conceal HP, so not much point to play her.

[@DarkStreifer]

How many recon ? YES.

[@HotShhot]

To be honest, I think these kinds of matches are more entertaining to watch than 2 Grandmasters playing perfectly and staring at each other until one game-ending mistake is made

[@IcerFreakyNana]

You know, after seeing so many high level and grandmasters' games, it's still cool to see an average player match. It motivates me to get back to playing Advance Wars by web when real life gives me a break in the future.

[@officedullard8722]

It's a shame Missiles are essentially a dead/useless unit. Also no one can ever convince me that Grit isn't OP.

[@baldbro3693]

I wonder if missiles would be viable with 2-6 range and 6 vision?

[@thrasher698]

​@baldbro3693 Honestly Missiles would probably be viable if they had actual movement or were on Treads instead of Wheels so they could actually get into positions to do anything. The fact that they're less mobile than AA is the biggest problem with them. Give them like, 5 movement on Treads, maybe you'd be able to have them be viable.

[@baldbro3693]

@@thrasher698Good point. Movement is terrible for sure

[@Fernybun]

Honestly I would rework them so they can shoot during the enemy turn if the enemy air troops get into range (just one attack per missile of course), that would give them a much more useful zoning ability compared to anti air but their mobility would make them still situational or at least a long term investment.

[@bienhy5120]

Tbh most map that allow grit (fog/hf), he is rarely the top pick CO. I think there are some map (std) where he could be legitimately t1 but is put as t0 just for « security » reason.

[@tamachaizumi9700]

Grit: "So, how many recons do you want to build?" Sonya:"Yes!" Grit: Sonya:"And how many Artys do you wanne build? Grit:" None? " Sonya: -Game in a nutshell

[@Vandenbz00]

I couldn't help but laugh at Mangs' despair with Sonja's recon spam and Grit's missing backbone of artillery.

[@Dexterritory212]

2:25 i smell a challenge for any grit players in fog to use missiles for that funny 6 range anti air with 5 vision something mangs didn't mention is its rather funny how for missiles sonja has 6 vision to the 5 range they have and grit has the opposite 6 range to the 5 vision with their powers boosting their benefits respectfully its a cute note that is often left ignored. sonja be like i will cleanse this fog with as many recons as needed love the low elo legends of the awbw reminds me of t90 low elo legends on age of empires looking forward to more of them mangs^^

[@demityrant1784]

A-A descendant of Numin! In the flesh! A relative of the 12 Holy Crusaders.. Gusto has Holy Blood. I know it. There can be no other explanation.

[@Jacob-qr8pl]

I liked seeing you cast a game of non uber good players so that if I were to start playing Advance Wars, I can take in advise for my level.

[@Keeki95]

The recon spam for the beginning made some sense. The terrain isn't awful for them, they're pretty cost effective against arty or infantry, and they give good intel. However should've transitioned to a few more tanks later on. Also Deejus would be disappointed by the lack of a day 10 AA.

[@Firemalleoandjelly]

I just sent one which was me as Javier vs grodden as Adder. We are both low level player but I did something weird with the Com towers.

[@FizzleFX]

That's like a blind and their blind-dog .... but they are fighting. The blind got a stick and range but cant see. The dog can see but can't get close enough as long as the stick is swung.

[@Amalvipls]

Its great to see a match between newbies for a change and see mangs desperate and laugh at the oddities instead of watching super pros being perfect all the time

[@SteamWolf320]

Gusto’s sole ambition is to see the whole world.

[@baldbro3693]

14:58 recon spam engaged

[@baldbro3693]

19:17 lmao

[@baldbro3693]

21:16 egg man begging for no more recons

[@shanedestroyer]

definitely nice seeing a low level match thinking of trying to make the shift from just beating AW2 to AWBW and nice to hear what common mistakes and all are. was a little weird havivg to critisize both sides maybe would be nice to focus on one side. also just fun to see some light dunking on the noob match, the neotank when you were stressing to build artys was comedy gold.

[@kevinu9528]

That Sonja bad luck was something else...

[@dropinota]

Grit needed to build artillery the way Gusto built recons

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

Sonja wanted so many recons, the map would look like a Standard Match upon activating her power.

[@Churchtwinblades]

I like Fog matches, and I like Sonja matches, and I like Sonja in Fog matches. This is an absolute win for me!

[@loganmatthews3672]

22:57 OY! OY! OY!

[@magicalcapi9148]

so deez gets tournament commentary and mangs the nutty games it's a change

[@dunethewanderer8944]

I'm beginning to wonder what a map that *doesn't* remind Mangs of Stalingrad looks like...

[@cosminetron]

A map that doesn't have a lab in the center surrounded by shoals. That's basically what makes a map Stalingrad

[@Darkness5423]

Starcraft 2 Terran players have the MMM ball (Marine, Medic, Marauder) Gusto is bringing to AWBW the Recon ball. With gusto having like 13 Recons he doesn't even need enhanced vision, bro already can see 80% of the map. I think he just wanted to play without fog on a fog map because he could.

[@Fleaked]

Thanks uncle Mangs for the quality matches, keep 'em coming ❤💯

[@gabrielbitencourt1879]

Gusto is learning from master Numin!

[@qqwqwqwqwqwable]

I'm pretty sure the Sonja players name is based on 2 decks in Yugioh. Its the Madolche archetype and the Gusto archetype.

[@gentlemansquarrel190]

My brother was a grit main, been playing him since the cart days (I’d guess his MMR would be around 1300) and have yet to lose to a grit on AWBW. I literally just spam recon and b copter until I can afford a bomber. Tanks as needed to deal with AA. TLDR: keep those recons flowing little noobie

[@rafaeustachio]

Thank you for the entertainment mr Mangs Sir!

[@Alliclare]

Gusto turning fog games into standard with this many recons! Edit: And playing Sonja too!

[@LordoftheFrosActual]

Big Numie (Nummie?) energy from Gusto this match.

[@lero4827]

This match was chaotic. Their strategies are very unique.

[@SerFloortje]

I actually support recon spam from Sonja. She's going against Grit. If yo0u figure a primary make up of just infantry and artillery, recon spam adequately covers that, and the map allows for good movement in the contested areas. Obviously Grit should be building more than artillery and infantry, but it's at least more appropriate vs Grit than vs anyone else

[@FidoriaSky]

Sonja ign just 2 of the best yu gi oh archetypes xD

[@FreakinOutOnAudio]

Match starts at 5:00

[@plackt]

More like 5:15, but thanks.

[@Capris9x]

Recons are good vs Grit. They hunt down Artillery pretty well if they have roads or shoals to help them too.

[@sesquame9527]

"But I dont wanna build artillery!" THEN WHY DID YOU PICK GRIT?

[@lukasneo91]

Recons War By Recons lol. Nice to see some low level replays from time to time!

[@FreakinOutOnAudio]

Numin levels of recon lol

[@FreakinOutOnAudio]

We all knew numin was a brilliant genius. The rest of awbw is finally catching up!

[@aydenno1012]

You should try playing tiny metal it’s a lot like advanced wars

[@notZabami]

As a wise man once said: "You don't want to send infantry across the river"

[@randomredshirt5274]

Ah yes, the legendary Numin Gambit, love to see it

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

I'm gonna go ahead and predict No

[@parnash]

Sonja also has an edge over Grit when he only makes like, 3 Arties, let's be honest here.

[@VinceTenia]

Critique from n00b here but definitely felt Sonja played too passive, she easily could have hit Grit 2 days earlier maybe even 3. But that could also be the effect of us having the benefit of perfect info whereas Sonja was trying to find where all the artillery was and suprise only 3.

[@Gaminnewfie]

You think Gusto has enough scouts? Maybe 5 more, just to be sure. There will be no fog in Gusto's game!

[@gingeral253]

Lol the recon spam

[@whisper6534]

Up!

[@linkolek]

mech spam? No, Recon spam.

[@vicio19995]

how was the fotg macht? GUSTO with 20 recons :"¿what fog? "

[@rileyg1307]

This is the type of crap I'd try and do on the cartridge but playing the AI was boring and my siblings hate AW

[@hollen9_tw]

Newmin style

[@Eternalwarpuppy]

Sonja is tier 3 in fog. A Grit that refuses to build artillery is tier 5. Sonja had a tier advantage I guess.

[@LCTesla]

I can't lie about her chances But she has my sympathies

[@M30W3R]

You don't understand, Mangs, if the Arty is 6k and the Recon is 4k, Grit trades inefficiently!

[@TheHeavenlyGoddess]

Now has user submitted games, Blood Pressure rises from "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS!?" lol stay strong mangs, some will be quite terrible.

[@kamespinosarojas9225]

i wonder if Sonja player reckons there is a lot of recons. 😮

[@jffj1425]

22:55 ain’t no party like a arty-party

[@MisterSpeedStacking]

21:05 music?

[@DragonflyCis]

I understand is low lvl but dam, only 3 arty as a grit?

[@FizzleFX]

Their plays are just perfect the way they are. Imagine games with only optimal moves. That be boring AF.

[@LordGeorg215]

there is so mutch to learn from the low elo games. plz more!

[@21Kaiser_]

Eggcup S2?

[@Mangs1337]

It was cancelled.

[@oof5992]

Sonia Recon and Grit neotank my beloved