Can There Be Innovation Under Socialism?

How many times have you heard the claim "without the profit motive there would be no innovation"? It's a line repeated so often that it seems like common sense to many people. Let's investigate that claim. Can there be innovation under socialism?
Can There Be Innovation Under Socialism? - Second Thought
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Citations and Further Reading:
Capitalism and Innovation
inthesetimes.com/article/capi...
jacobin.com/2015/03/socialism...
hbr.org/2011/11/people-dont-n...
tribunemag.co.uk/2020/08/how-...
www.science.org/content/blog-...
• Video
The iPhone
www.google.com/books/edition/...
www.google.com/books/edition/...
Public investment in health innovations
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
The 11 lines of open-source code that broke the internet
qz.com/646467/how-one-program... • The Man Who Broke The ...
COVID patents and Africa, mutations
africacdc.org/covid-19-vaccin... www.healthline.com/health-new...
6.7% of world has a college degree
www.huffpost.com/entry/percen... www.nber.org/system/files/wor...
Cuban medical innovations
www.nature.com/articles/nbt12...
Economic planning and innovation
www.google.com/books/edition/...
people.umass.edu/dmkotz/Soc_a...
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[@samkelo27]

"But it's not profitable so I guess never mind" nothing is more true about capitalism

[@evilds3261]

The funny thing is that this philosophy goes both ways. If workers find going to work no longer profitable, especially with inflation, then that may be one contributing factor behind the labour shortages. People will only work jobs that are genuinely profitable for its employees.

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

Yeah we could stop the earths balls from cooking to death, but it wouldn't be as profitable so meh

[@LunacticInferno]

@@evilds3261 Untrue. A majority of humans boxed into rigid countries are forced to set aside innovation and talents to just have basic life necessities and thus MUST think of securing said LIFE NECESSITIES with such focus and anxiety that the loss/lack of said things spurs them to use money as that escapism. If they had said necessities, and a different system utilizing their innovation and talents in ways that were positive and inspiring, you would see how many people start setting aside the focus of monetary gain. You can't put such people in a narcissistic society where they cannot cope and be creative then expect them to thrive. They will be caught in the noose, suffocated under duress to survive, and eventually degrade mentally and physically. If shelter, food and health wasn't so decrepit and an unobtainable illusion people would do what they love, pursuit talent and knowledge, then WANT to make things (alone or together) in a content way. They don't get to though. You are pigeon-holed. That's why other countries laugh at America because said other countries (even if not well off) have shelter and food shared in their communities without these worries much of the time. When given access to better education and so forth they can be just as innovative (without seeking selfish profit) because their access to said education made them equal to the rest of the world's collected intelligence. Many of them, if they do get money, then put it towards their community to update it so that it can begin to match the outside world as well. They are not as boxed in structurally as America, China and so forth. They have more room to wiggle, wander, and grow because their basic necessities are provided and they are free to focus/pursue their choices.

[@MissStateFan]

@@TheModdedwarfare3 That’s why I say abolish currency.

[@evilds3261]

@@TheModdedwarfare3 Ah, having children is too expensive, meh. Less workforce, more worker bargaining power. It goes both ways. If anyone gets mad at you for not working a crappy job or having children, then they do not care about your well-being and only care about theirs.

[@RickyRei1]

I've always felt that capital, and the fact that there's always a need for profit, has stifled innovation. Look at America, we're basically a few corporations pretending to be a country.

[@PMcGJellyP]

That and they clinge to old systems like oil and coal for as long as they can make money off it. Why change when the status quo is giving you millions of dollars?

[@Chrisko1492]

The solution isn‘t socialism, it‘s true capitalism. Today‘s USA has no resemblence to the original capitalism by Adam Smith. Original Capitalism with strong social programs and government regulations = best economic system. Socialism = against human nature (humans want to compete, not live equally), and will inevitably end in a dictatorship (because Socialism requires a very strong government and once evil politicians rise to the top, they‘ll turn the system into fascism).

[@kierstenburtz8442]

Right? Everyone always asks what motive there would be for innovation other than profit. Uh... Cuz it's fun? Capitalism actively takes away the ability to do things just for the sake of doing them. Making things just for the sake of making them. No risks are being taken on the front of making new things because if it doesn't make money, it isn't worth it in this society.

[@umamii936]

You're looking for the word oligarcy

[@nohbuddy1]

@@jl8942 Plus preventing people from repairing devices themselves

[@BberryBberrydude]

I'm an engineer and I always wished more people understood how socialist maker spaces can be. In the 3D printing community, people have been printing artificial limbs forever. It's a fun nifty toy and source of great joy to try to improve on the design further and further, like the joy of solving a puzzle. But eventually people were drowning in plastic limbs, so know what they did? They sought out families of disabled children and sent them custom-printed prosthetics for free. Has no one considered the fact that engineering is actually fun? Why do people act like writing and drawing are the only 2 creative outlets in the universe? In a world where people can do whatever they want without fear of starving to death, people will busy themselves with things that they enjoy. And for many many of these people, they'll seek ways to improve their everyday activities, or just strive towards mastery of a subject matter. Humans have been innovating since before capitalism and we'll continue to do so long after it

[@MrKahrum]

Exactly. Innovation and creativity are innate human characteristics. You cannot stifle them without a revolt, so they say that this stifling socioeconomic model promotes the things.

[@NilsNone]

@@MrKahrum heck i enjoy giving away Zucchinis away to friends, neighbors and family if I have some to spare just because I planted a plat or two too many... and that''s not even "innovation" just me having stuff left over..... life could be so much easier for a lot of people if its not all about profit and margins

[@m3talh3ad18]

Heart touching story. Source?

[@NilsNone]

@@m3talh3ad18 me giving away zuccinis....? I have a garden you realy need proof of that? you shitting me?

[@NilsNone]

@@m3talh3ad18 ah or you mean that suff? kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ2bmp2GfKp-hZo

[@user-bp8yg3ko1r]

How Apple innovated over the last years: - Removing the headphone jack - Ignoring expandable storage and user removable batteries - Serializing parts to make repairs extremely difficult - Removing useful ports and adding them again - Making spare parts as unaccessible as possible After seeing this brilliant video, I'd really love to see a Right to Repair video!

[@kiefershanks4172]

I broke my screen getting into my Google Pixel to replace the battery. Literally don't know how I could've avoided it given the hostile design. I blame capitalism for having to essentially break a perfectly good part just to replace a bad one. It's almost like they designed it so that if you even attempted the repair, you'll break the screen and render the device unusable. Talk about anti-consumer. I bought another screen though. F*ck you Google.

[@bichdao1808]

The fault is in the stupid people keep buying from them , even from socialist country like China and Viet nam .

[@nopenever9829]

@@nenmaster5218 not all of them there is a huge amount of Capitalist-Konservative Atheist KZbinrs ... But yes ... Socialism and Atheism are "good friends" ... "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes" "Religion is the opium of the people" (Rough translation) Karl Marx

[@anarchisttechsupport6644]

Android Supremacy! Until manufacturers follow Apple's lead.

[@ScooterinAB]

I'm not sure how much "right to repair" makes anything better, sine user-accessible parts means adding a lot of other parts so that those parts can be accessed. But yeah, I always love when capitalist suburb hipster sheep use Apple as an example for innovation, given that the company hasn't innovated in about 30 years.

[@KoolAidManOG]

"Isms do not create things, workers do. Isms only decide who gets paid." Beautiful

[@thevictor180]

You're beautiful

[@Catthepunk]

This.

[@salicaguillotines]

Based

[@mikeohawk95]

And that’s why progress is stagnated for now, even my orbs are not getting off the ground, and socialist policies decide which innovations are and disallowed in society, and that’s an unethical problem

[@KalikAP01]

My favorite take on this issue still comes from a tweet I read a long time ago: "If Capitalism breeds innovation, why don't printers work?"

[@guncolony]

So true, once companies get large enough they can just decide to collude and f**k you over for more profits, because they know they can get away with it. They can make bad products on purpose, and you can't compete even if you make a better one, because they have economies of scale on their side.

[@Terrapin22]

Lmao, this hits.

[@LowestofheDead]

Specifically: - Most of the printer market is dominated by four massive companies (thanks to laws that favor monopolies). - The companies design printer cartridges that can only be used with their printer, and can sue anyone who hacks them (thanks to the state's Intellectual Property protection). - The companies can then sell printers at a loss, and overprice the ink cartridges (which is only possible because they're big enough to take the short-term losses). So you can see how it's not just the monopolies, but also the state that enables it.

[@JoaoSantos-ur1gg]

@@LowestofheDead Good, you realized that capitalist states support big corporations.

[@dragonfell5078]

Easier to use a typewriter. I'm not saying it's cheaper or more convenient, I just like the klickity klack sounds it makes when typing out a page with text

[@johnson941]

My old refrigerator was made by a company who tried to build the absolute best quality refrigerators. We overtook it from the people who had lived in the house before us, who told us that it was about 30 years old. When we moved house and left the refrigerator behind 15 years later it was still going strong, and when we visited the new owners three years later, it still stood in the kitchen after nearly 50 years. The company who made it went bankrupt shortly after they had made it.

[@MsThePrettiest]

@@biwihd9982 I think they couldn't make enough money because fridges had low re-purchase rate due ti high quality. Shity products that got broaken after 10 years simly bring you more because customers have to go back and buy it again

[@marek9081]

This reminds me of how my grandparents used to have a Soviet refrigerator that lasted probably for some 30+ years and then in early 2000s they bought a new "capitalist" one which broke down just after the warranty period (planned obsolescence?).

[@landaucorl5390]

@@marek9081 Of course it is planned. I bought many things over the years that broke right around the warranty period. I heard this story over and over from friends or other people.

[@peceed]

Warranty should be much longer and explicitly tied to the expected lifetime of goods. The only problem was that the real quality of goods is hidden, they wen't bankrupt because they need to compete with "cheaters".

[@Narko_Marko]

Having to buy a new refrigerator every 10 years is worse for the consumer than having one forever, but doesnt making new refrigerator give people jobs? The company that went bankrupt had to let a lot of people go. Its kinda twisted that making a high quality product puts you out of business.

[@LapsedLawyer]

Just ran across another example: Volvo invented the three-point seat belt back in 1959, yet made the patent free to any car company wanting to use it, precisely because it promoted safety and saved lives. In other words, contra the whole reason to be in business (to make a profit) they demonstrated more concern for use value than exchange value and eschewed profit. You might see this as some species of charity, but it also illustrates your point about how innovation under socialism would be driven by actual material needs

[@macrumpton]

Tesla has made many of their patents freely available to use with only the stipulation that the patent users not sue Tesla.

[@rickb3650]

And the American auto industry still refused to put them in cars until they were literally forced to, by law, a decade later. Why? Unit cost was a far greater concern that human lives. We see the same thing repeated over and over in virtually every industry. ETA: Sorry. Someone replied to my reply and I started reading replies, and there you go 🤓

[@RosscoAW]

Keeping mind, of course, that vehicles cause a significant amount of death and damage, and providing products that have a non-trivial likelihood of literally killing your customers is a pretty good way to slowly fail to meet your growth targets over time. Slightly ameliorating the propensity with which people will wind up ceasing being customers, for an otherwise negligible cost, is a more than acceptable cost-benefit analysis and 104% servers the profit motive; not any form of altruism whatsoever. If Volvo could have found a way to more effectively profit on, if not monopolize, the fact of the seatbelt, without universalizing it, they would have -- universalizing it was simply the most profitable (and more importantly, least expensive) course of action to take, given it just made every competitor equally responsible for opex'ing into seatbelts and so has no real relative cost anyway.

[@RosscoAW]

@@macrumpton And what, you suppose that doesn't directly benefit Tesla's shareholders? lol

[@peceed]

@@macrumpton That tells a lot about shitty value of Tesla patent portfolio.

[@fredyleonardocarrenohernan6864]

Planned obsolescence, the great innovation of capitalism

[@eymed2023]

Exactly!

[@abelabel3664]

Imagine if the best minds were not competing or being tied by profit motives, but cooperating and focusing on efficiency, net-benefits and sustainability... Or if education was not so focused on making people fit the wills of the market... Or if people had enough time to dedicate to their passions instead of worrying about the next meal or rent... Or if academia stopped adopting industrial-like performance indicators for researchers and journals were open-access instead of controlled by ultra greedy companies...

[@abelabel3664]

@@WednesdayShortsDance Shove it

[@narrgamedesigner2747]

Or if people had enough time to dedicate to their passions instead of worrying about the next meal or rent - I wish I could. Went back to uni to do aa masters and doing part-time but its only temporary before I have to go back to the work grind.

[@Naps56]

Reminds me of John Lennon's 'Imagine". All forms of political governance have two common enemies - Meritocracy and Individualism...In my experience of working under both - Capitalism and Socialism - for decades.

[@bullydungeon9631]

I wish

[@joshduriden519]

And yet not a single entity in history rose up through that idea, rather it was civilizations who constantly warred with other nations that innovated and advanced. It's also strange how anytime a civilization becomes so large, or powerful that it has absolutely no competitors it starts to decay and fall apart. Let's not forgot that modern economics understands that monopolies stifle innovation, and negatively impact capital based systems. It's almost like humans work best when their backs are against the wall, resources are limited, and they are competing against each other. But I'm sure this time, unlike every other time in the last century, Socialism or Communism will totes work and not end up like Russia, China, Venezuela, etc.

[@seth_sesu]

This is spot on. It's why open source tech actually accelerates innovation. Capitalism is about locking down and monopolizing every little innovative idea to extract profit.

[@bestofbothworldsagain399]

FACTS.

[@kongspeaks4778]

I love how you dismantle capitalist propaganda without ever getting bitter or sarcastic. It's a skill I'll need to learn.

[@arctrix765]

Because he is just talking in common sense

[@forstudentpower]

“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” - Stephen Jay Gould 💯

[@tamegaming1768]

Man, you give me hope, not just in introducing me to an alternative to our failing system, but highlighting how common sense so many Socialist principles are. The fact people around me are starting to speak up about believing in Socialist ideas, to your 1.3m subscriber voice, I have hope that we can slowly start to change the world with this information.

[@TheHulk1850]

"I can channnge the world, I can be the sunlight in your universe!" Sorry, had to XD

[@TrollzBait]

Lol, you want to replace a "failing system" with something that has already failed. I don't really know what to think of this.

[@imnotmike]

@@TrollzBait Given your username, I really wouldn't expect you to understand any of this.

[@farokudahitam]

Only in America is socialism a dirty word.

[@farokudahitam]

@@donotlike4anonymus594 Leave ? No we'll change it.

[@staytheknight]

“Just because you sell it doesn’t mean you made it” Best quote ever!!!

[@Sorenzo]

Most early innovation was done by monks and aristocrats, like Mendel, Newton, Darwin, Volta - and hundreds others who either were completely free from the profit motive, or were employed by people who were. And even in a modern corporation, researchers have no profit motive, because their corporation owns all their research. It's just facially ridiculous to attribute innovation to the profit motive, unless you're specifically talking about private investment and marketing research . But those are just, charitably speaking, two areas out of many where innovation takes place.

[@Rhaegar19]

Seriously though, saying profit incentivizes innovation implies that the people who are innovating are the ones who are profiting, which is rarely the case.

[@MrKahrum]

It could be said that having such a situation as we are in breed innovation in new models of society

[@simoneetti5555]

Honestly i think both capitalism and socialism have good things, but you say that profit isnt an incentive for in innovation. Do you think that researchers do it for free? They obviously get paid, and if they work better they get paid more. Easy as that. We then can argue that the share taken from the people that invested on it should be lower while the actual researchers should be paid more (and i think that would be good) , but researchers dont have any risk, hence they get paid less

[@zimdollar3229]

Thomas Edison was all about profit. Nikola Tesla wasn't. Elon Musk likes Thomas Edison

[@richardwyse7817]

Darwin was a "Gentleman Scientist" or even worse "amateur" but was funded by previous business success/inherited wealth....make of that what you will.

[@boipolloi687]

Just saw this come up at work. Here's a comment for the algorithm! Love that you're continuing to promote socialism as well as critique capitalism, not a lot of creators are willing to do that.

[@RexGalilae]

Quite a lot, an increasing number of creators are doing just this, though, even if you ignore the pretentious and unknowledgeable "breadtubers"

[@SecondThought]

Thanks so much! I try my best to make useful videos

[@venusiansociety9483]

@@RexGalilae breadtubers are just the start of socialist pipeline on youtube

[@RexGalilae]

@@venusiansociety9483 Also the most misleading and for a majority, the start and end of the pipeline sadly

[@chidorirasenganz]

@@RexGalilae eh i’d consider second thought breadtube. Breadtube is anything left of social democracy

[@Greenkrieg]

Capitalism actively disincentives innovation. For example, in my job I’ve developed many methods to automate both mine and others work. If I were to share all of this with my coworkers and managers I’d probably get a nice pat on the back and a congratulatory email. Then the company would give us more work to fill up our time and/or fire people because now it only take 2 ppl to do the work if 10. So I am incentivized to keep quiet and only use my tools to make my work easier.

[@dw5967]

The same happened to me. When I joined my last company, I personally worked to innovate my department which had an old-school process of paper printouts routing for signatures in plastic sleeves. I moved my department onto a cloud-based software to upload, store, comment, review, and sign-off all documents. Fast-forward a couple years, the company merged with another company and they laid me off in favor of my counterpart from the other brand who had been with that company for 22 years, yet his work was crap and there was no effort to innovate in that time (also was on the paper in a sleeve system). I was asked to train him on the system I built and laid off 2 weeks later. The decision was based on how well this guy kissed up to the boss of the other brand who became the boss of all brands. No evaluation of who was more skilled or more valuable to the new company or all brands, just about kissing up. I hear now that they let that system slide and it's in disarray. That's corporate America for ya. I've since resulted to becoming a small business (franchise) owner as that is the only protection I have from the enslavement of workers in America. I am small enough to not be attacked by monopolies or oligopolies.

[@ZBott]

A long time ago I heard a line that stuck with me, "We don't know exactly how much of the economy is rent seeking". This wasn't just for land, but property and intelligence. Patents are some of the worst, but also creative works that never enter public domain.

[@user-ne8jx1ye6l]

As a french student in mathematics and economics, innovation is usually the most acquainted argument in order to discredit socialism or state intervention (specifically in TIC and medical research). You just showed facts about intuitions that one can have by studying economic history and thanks for that, I hope it will help some to understand that the economic future can be different. It should be different. Therefore, let’s create it different. It is all up to us.

[@-AxisA-]

You Frechmen are good at revolutions, so I have no doubt in mind that when the time comes you will overthrow your bourgeoisie✊🏻

[@coolioso808]

It's also interesting to break down what an 'economy' even is and ask is the current system even behaving like an 'economy'? 'Economy' is defined as the 'careful management of available resources'. Now, how can anybody of rational mind say that what we have now with the capitalist profit-mad and resource-wasting drive is an 'economy'? It isn't. Or it's the poorest excuse for an economy. That would lead to the question: What sort of system should be create that would function as an 'economy'? For that there are some options, some socialist, some would say circular economy, some would say resource based economy. All of those would be more worthy of being called an 'economy' than what we are meant to believe is an economy today.

[@localareakobold9108]

I comprehended only a quarter of your sentence but I can only blame myself for that... Greetings from a low grade low income student

[@yt_nh9347]

That's a whole lot of words to say you're just a student, when you hit actual industry with a proper job then you will understand how value actually works in society and how everything is driven by risk vs. reward. Why would someone work hard to become a surgeon if he was paid the same a janitor or jobless bum under socialism? Why would anyone push themselves to excel when there is no added rewards for making innovations? If you paid the surgeon/engineer/lawyer different to the janitor for the differences in their skills and contribution then you are just back at capitalism again. These things are very simple to understand, only muddled by people that only listen to high level arguments (with much lacking nuance) from secondthought. Do you think the professor that teaches you does it out of the kindness of his heart? lol

[@MrKahrum]

@@-AxisA- america is the first country created to be overthrown peacefully. We just need to do it.

[@BdR76]

Talking about innovation.. as a game developer I find it fascinating that both *Tetris* and *Bejeweled* were invented by Soviet Union era Russians. The inventor of Tetris moved to America and became very rich, while the Russian student who in the 90s created the game "Shariki" (aka Ша́рики, which was ripped off by Bejeweled) remains largly unknown.

[@fl00fydragon]

I'm a transhumanist and a socialist. What initially made me a socialist was me getting sick of the countless barriers that capitalism imposes (is it profitable, what's the economic cost/risk, how long will it take to turn a profit etc) that stifle the technological and medical innovations that are necessary to achieve transhumanism in a way that would radically better and extend the lives of people.

[@addyv3633]

When your existence isn't about making ends meet and you have a lot of free time to youself, your family and most importantly your passion, I believe innovation is inevitable.

[@masterdeetectiv9520]

A lot of innovations in the early industrial revolution were made by rich lords who had the time to play around with different things and come up with innovations, imagine if many more people had the freedom to do this

[@nothanks9503]

@@masterdeetectiv9520joe rogan thinks people would sit around doing nothing because that’s what they did during covid and I guess that’s what he does while not working

[@masterdeetectiv9520]

@@nothanks9503 well covid is different because you cant really leave the house

[@nothanks9503]

@@masterdeetectiv9520 one of many reasons and I personally learned a huge amount about cooking over covid and like started working on a design for a new kind of engine during covid because I didn’t have time to do any of that stuff since I was 15 really and started working and moved out and certainly not since I was 18 and started working full time

[@masterdeetectiv9520]

@@nothanks9503 yeah that is cool, if given some time for themselves people can do really cool stuff

[@theviewer6889]

As a small child I would perform very rudimentary science experiments in my back garden. Yes, most of them were seeing what happened when I put sometning into a fire, but it followed the scientific principles. I would time the 'experiments', record the data, repeat them to make sure these weren't flukes, would change variables and record the new results (what would happen if I doubled the quantity, is there a difference when performed over an orange flame vs a red flame, what if I changed the ratio of ingredients etc.). There was no profit motive at all, I was just an extremely curious child who, after finding that the adults in my life couldn't answer my never ending stream of questions, went to go find answers myself (under adult supervision obviously, they didn't leave a small child unsupervised around fire). I greatly enjoyed these and continued to do so into high school, where I got to do actual scientific experiments under lab conditions. I was even looking into pursuing science (specifically astrophysics) as a career. You want to know what stopped me? Money. My family desperately needs money to live so I couldn't risk pursuing a career with potentially limited job potential (esspecially cause I absolutely refuse to work in the military sector). Capitalism stopped me potentially doing future innovation. And my story is not unique, far from it.

[@tumbling6940]

"Old man with magic bird powers" I'll stop rewatching that bit eventually but I needed that kind of laugh so much. Thanks.

[@SecondThought]

Glad to be of service 😁

[@amybickett7949]

The Lightbulb industry made lightbulbs worse so they could sell more, lightbulbs made in 1901 could last longer than people

[@eldizo_]

It's a tragedy the amount of innovation potential lost just because of intellectual property. Having your basic needs met and freedom of information with exponential computing power increases would have propelled us to the stars by the end of this century. We have to work, we have to spread this message and bring a better world to all.

[@johnnytownsend4204]

I'm a writer and hear constantly that if I'm "serious," I will only submit to paying markets. Treating my skill as a hobby demeans the work and makes life harder for other writers. While that's at least partially true in a capitalist society, the fact is that earning money has never been my goal as a writer. I write to create. I write to be read. I spent a lot of money getting an MFA and writing 50+ books etc that I will never recoup. If I was in it for the money, I'd have given up decades ago. I keep writing because it's "meaningful" to me to do so and meaningful, I believe, for those who read my work. People are productive and creative and innovative because we want to be, not because of capitalism.

[@coolioso808]

You are a gem, a good person on the side of humanity. Are you familiar with author, filmmaker Peter Joseph? The free Revolution Now podcast might be a good entry-point if you aren't familiar with his work that is frequently free or just to break even.

[@iwalolaatitebi7349]

@ johnny Townsend I totally relate with you on this, I am a writer and all my life I have had to battle between what I want to put out and what will get me paid. It saddens me really, and to say that capitalism promotes innovation is the most infuriating and untrue statement ever, especially when I hear it from people struggling to get their lives together as well, their sight makes a funny tragedy.

[@johnnytownsend4204]

@@coolioso808 Thanks for the suggestions!

[@TheDarkness1]

Ditto....the system will fall eventually. It's so far out of balance. Fall of the System Modern society led by delusion Masses of hate, hypocritical confusion Upside down world of devolution Creating a violent institution Unable to listen, just keep squawking Unable to hear anyone else talking Upside down world of ponzi schemes Theft of so many innocent dreams Violence and ignorance take control Zombies of anger without any soul Shoot you down if you don't comply Their fragile ego continues to deny No empathy, constantly self loathing Dressed in over expensive clothing Time to stand up and fight Turning all that's wrong into right Burn down this hypocritical delusion End to all the mass confusion Perpetuated by a monetary illusion Heal the world, a new revolution

[@undeadblizzard]

Same. I like to draw because it is fun. It would be nice if I could draw for a living. However, working a real job means healthcare, PTO, and things any job should provide. If anything because People have to work or strave. People who are smart know they can make more money being a Corporate Lawyer helping cheaters win than being a Biochemist unless that Biochemist Is helping Nestle make food more addictive. Addicts are the best customers.

[@zonkronkle414]

I love how in everyone of your videos you always exemplify things in the best interest of the opposing factor. For example how you set up the best case scenario for capitalism. But you then proceed to completely dismantle it and demonstrate how even at its best, the current systems are so flawed. Keep up the amazing work!

[@benhuang2773]

Fun fact: this is known as a "steelman," it's the opposite of a strawman

[@VincentHondius]

The breakdown of free market is however incorrect. We don't have a free market at all. Also his examples of monopolies are false as they haven't been the result of a free market

[@real_dddf]

@@benhuang2773 thanks for the fact! It makes sense to discuss using "steelman" since for any system or actually, anything in general we have some bad examples. Being pessimistic and focusing only on the bad does not benefit the discussion in any way.

[@avishevin1976]

@@VincentHondius One of the primary interests in regulating markets is to prevent monopolies (and their cousins). A completely free market will lead to literally one company owning everything.

[@VincentHondius]

@@avishevin1976 free market monopolies (monopolies of competence) have never been achieved and when achieved, they will likely not survive very long if they don't innovate/lower their prices to outcompete the rest. Currently the oligopolies/monopolies we have experienced were always funded by government, in addition to the existence of patents. They have an unfair advantage

[@transgirl420]

If I didnt lose 40 hours each week to working, there are SO MANY things I would do!! There was a period of 2 years where I stopped working full time due to health, and worked part time at a comic shop. I started full time work again a four years ago, and my career has been doing really well, but I grew so much more as a person during the 2 years I worked part-time. My current job is really good by any metric and they treat us much better than anywhere else I've worked, but having to do anything for 8 hours every day eventually gets exhausting.

[@taxthesocialist2602]

In other words, you're lazy? Try being a farmer. You work from sun up to sun down. Do you need a privilege check, minority?

[@axbrax5697]

As a german it is so nice to see that you put the original german of the quote in the beginning under the translation :) to this day it is quite a common saying in Germany.

[@kaiserwilhelmii1827]

Bro is out here destroying capitalist arguments like it's nothing. This channel is brilliant 🔥

[@marktaylor6491]

Aeronautics is the classic one. Consider the great leaps in technology that came during the 30's to 70's. Engines, airframes, control mechanisms, mass coordination, all due to state spending for military purposes.

[@ogeboi4945]

Like 130 of the inventions used in some NASA rockets came from some guy in the middle of nowhere and NASA ended up getting sued 2 million for it, but this guy used to test rockets in his town and after fear of the guy somehow destroying the town the state ended up giving him a large plot of land in the middle of nowhere to keep innovating, arguably without this guy just having fun with a hobby we would have not gone to the moon

[@rogermon3s141]

True but how did the common man come to benefit those technologies?

[@soggmeisterlasagnagarfield]

@@rogermon3s141 they enlisted 💀

[@ogeboi4945]

@@rogermon3s141 he didn’t benefit himself except for self pride since he apparently loved making rockets and innovating, it wasn’t till a while after he passed away that his wife sued NASA 2 million $ for stealing his inventions basically

[@marcoantoniov.t.9558]

Exactly! That was precisely what my brother and I were discussing the other day. Now, imagine which shape could such an investment take without the "do or get wrecked by an enemy country" motive :o

[@PakBallandSami]

“Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners.” ― Vladimir Lenin

[@soggmeisterlasagnagarfield]

This is why the precedents for libertarianism in the U.S. are terrible, and this is just the moral reason why libertarianism shouldn’t exist as a modern economic alternative. The libertarian principle of “no individual or group should be enslaved by the government” (stemming from the line from the preamble to the constitution “all men are created equal”) was technically in practice from the beginning of the U.S. because slaves weren’t considered human, but rather property. All that said and women still weren’t even in the picture.

[@Gusto20000]

«Put millions of people in labour camps for 10 years minimum! Their children too!” - Vladimir Lenin

[@PakBallandSami]

@@Gusto20000 true lol

[@nou4495]

@@Gusto20000 "If it breathes, throw it into a cage full of lions!!!" -Vladimir Lenin (Probably)

[@soggmeisterlasagnagarfield]

@@stefamart7 true, but even then if you look at the right throughout history, communists pale in comparison to them on homophobia/xenophobia/sexism/racism/antisemitism. Socialist and communist policies are designed to benefit all workers. Libertarianism is design to benefit all owners. Communism will always be better suited for no discrimination and creating equality because it eliminates class/socioeconomic divides. Libertarian policies fuel inequality. It stems from the false idea that you are independent and have complete control of your own life (individualism), when in reality we are dependent on society and the people around us indefinitely. Individualism is promoted by huge private business executives and corporate owners who have public influence (Warren Buffet, Elon Musk, etc) to encourage people to "work hard" to make themselves successful, which in turn basically means they want to exploit people's work ethic without the people ever reaping the rewards (under capitalist policy). Which only makes the Warren Buffets and Elon Musks richer. Even though all sides have precedented discrimination, it is still better to choose the side who's policies are designed to eliminate inequality (communism).

[@aprilshah7634]

I'm an American who lives in the Czech Republic, and I spend a lot of time in Poland. Your videos have always resonated with me. Living here has really pushed me to better understand and defend my views of socialism because in countries who had Communist influence, anything that resembles that is a dirty word. These countries have (relatively) recently taken up capitalism and they have a worship of it based on 'how good it's been for America'. So when they hear that I left 'the American Dream' they are puzzled. ***Also to the creator, I want to donate to your Patreon, but banks here charge extra to convert to USD. Let me know when you can accept CZK, EUR, or PLN.*** Thanks! :)

[@cultural_marxism_fan]

tbf both of those countries have high amounts of nostalgia for socialism

[@canisjay]

@@cultural_marxism_fan so does right wing military dictatorships in latin america..

[@Ailasher]

Lost my hearing over the weekend. I signed up for a free local doctor via the Internet on monday (only two days a week, you need to go faster - go to a paid clinic). It didn’t hurt, just the ear didn’t hear, so I saved money. This morning walked for 10 minutes through the park to the clinic. Literally nine minutes appointment, no queues, no paper work (for me), including an invasive procedure, and I'm free to go feeling good. Thanks to the USSR for the remaining shards of free professional health care. Billions of Gulag prisoners and a suffering population without streets polluted with car exhausts. And without bananas, of course, for the comrades from the GDR. At any moment I will exchange the zero of bills for treatment and available medical staff for delicious bananas!! I mean: what was seriously wrong with these people in our "ComBlock" in the late 80s? And they didn't even know what a "mortgage" was...

[@ScooterinAB]

Yeah. How good America has it. I always hear people say that when we're talking about a race to the bottom. I'm not convinced America was ever very good at anything. The best I can think of is maybe Hollywood, but the only reason we have Hollywood is because of patent thieves and predatory working conditions. Meanwhile, there's a lot of really good (if underfunded) national cinema around the world.

[@KariRunk-qj1cx]

@@Ailasher You can have your cake and eat it too, there is a middle ground between a meme country like america and a c*mmunist dystopia. Here in my country I can walk for 10 minutes to a clinic to get my nine minute appointment and buy delicious bananas on my way home.

[@DMLP]

I personally think socialism actually promotes innovation. Currently a lot of interesting ideas/concepts/innovation are immediately patented and exploited cause of capitalistic greed, look at pharma industry. Socialism, and Universal Basic Income, would not only give people more time for their hobbies and potential innovations, it might also lessen the patent grabbing behavior. More and more companies now use multiple licensing for their product. Epic Games (a capitalistic company, I know), allows you to use their Unreal Engine for free up to a certain net revenue, once you cross that threshold you need to pay them for a license. In the 3D printing world a lot of innovations are release in the public domain, some do request a stipend if you use their innovation in a for-profit model.

[@SkateGeneva]

100% true. I am an engineer in photonics and the only way we can create the chips that run in data centers, communication satellites, or LiDAR is because all we do is sponsored by the government! My salary is paid with government funds.

[@charleslupo7678]

Our pharmaceutical sector in the USA owes itself to the public sector. Our government/universities paid for the research. Then the private sector gets their greedy little hands on the formula and then sells it back to us for unreasonable prices. It’s like the school yard bully who steal your sandwich and then says you can get it back if you pay him $10. Enough is enough.

[@cfltheman]

One thing they do is make tiny changes to the formula so they can extend the patent.

[@Xanderqwerty123]

After working in a pharmacy for 7 years, i can confidently say that my life would be easier and my patients would be richer if i could just type in their social and their generic medications were free. When i have to call a doctor to get them to do paperwork for a greedy insurance compay to pay for their expensive medications, it is actively hurting people. I once couldn't fill a patient's antipsychotic medication for an affordable price and he killed someone in a schizophrenic episode in the time it took for his doctor and insurance to get it covered for him (about 2 days). The industry is hellish, and America is basically a third-world country just outside of city centers.

[@Akiironzo]

Having been around modding, speedrunning, and competitive gaming communities for most of my life I know from first-hand experience that there are many amazing individuals who will work tirelessly, for free, to support their community and passions. The Super Smash Bros. Melee community is probably the perfect modern example of this in action but it exists all over the Internet. It's not some kooky marxist idea that you have to imagine. It literally exists right here in present day.

[@arminb3939]

As a german, I appreciate the original text of karl marx's legendary no iphone quote

[@composingpenguin]

We must also question the nature of “innovation.” Do we truly understand and appreciate what it is, or have our capitalist systems inured us to a buzzword in the pursuit for profit? Is it always something grandiose, or can it be (seemingly) minor? Just because something is innovative, is it good? Innovations aren’t just things, either. Ways of living, such as socialism, can be innovations.

[@libradragon]

Nikola Tesla was innovative. And . . . the Government did what the Government does best.

[@composingpenguin]

@@libradragon Okay. And?

[@coolioso808]

Indeed, good points, good questions. Innovation for innovations and profit-sake isn't necessarily good, in fact, it can be very bad. A huge waste of resources. Necessity is the mother of invention. If we had a system that understood that and took the profit motive away and instead re-oriented work and innovation around meeting everybody's basic needs, as locally as possible, with Natural Law as a guide and people's direct input as important - we would find a lot more important and meaningful innovation and work take place.

[@Moosemoose1]

I agree, innovation and technological advancement simply for the sake of technological advancement without any real need or without first deeply scrutinizing the efficacy, safety and ethics of said tech and innovation is absolutely dangerous. We don't need to be maximally "productive" or "efficient" or "innovative" - capitalism has literally brainwashed humanity into this lightning-paced worldview that we need newnewnew fastfastfast, rather than thoughtfully thinking, creating, revising and modifying whatever we create. Like an adrenaline junkie, our society is obsessed with the dopamine rush of the new before we're even able to realize what we already have. Socialism would provide a much needed relief from such a fast paced life and allow people to have more of a voice in what we create, research and develop rather than allow a handful of scientists and companies free reign to do whatever they want without looking at the consequences.

[@MasterGhostf]

A lot of capitalist "innovations" are just changing social structures to be more efficient, cost effective, and profitable. I personally have nothing wrong with capitalism. I have everything against unfettered capitalism and any unrestricted economic and/or political policy. That said there isn't enough socialism and workers don't own enough in this world.

[@METD23]

Fantastic content, as always. I wanted to say that this video along-side the previous one about work in a socialist system were particularly useful. These are common arguments I hear voiced against socialism (and/or communism) but I've always had a difficult time arguing against them, either due to a lack of knowledge or lack of a cohesive direction in my own arguments. This helps a great deal to refine and organize my own thoughts about these issues and now I feel far more prepared to have discussions/debates about this topic. Thank you for the effort you put in to educating us, I'm sure MANY people's views on capitalism and socialism are improved in no small part to the information you share with us. Keep it up!

[@ctbrahmstedt]

Responding hopefully in the tone of a friendly debate and not an argumentative shouting match. We don’t live in a perfectly capitalistic society, nor a socialist one. We’re on a spectrum that I think leans towards 75% capitalist/25% socialist. I think you need both to thrive as a society and it’s up for debate whether the pros outweigh the cons of leaning more capitalist than socialist. We should absolutely be better about supporting our poorest citizens and give everyone the opportunity to thrive, but I also don’t think that means giving every citizen a guitar in hopes of not missing the next Hendrix. Even the NIH grants mentioned typically require the institution receiving the money to be a FOR profit institution, the receiving company must have a commercialization plan before receiving the money, and the majority of projects must have some form of return on investment. Sure, there are some non-profitable compassionate use grants, but even government funding projects typically look for a return. It may not necessarily be a direct “items sold” profit, but, say, treating a wounded soldier on the battlefield, the government realizes it costs $X for every down soldier and investing $Y to treat them, overall saves the government money in the long run. Don’t get me wrong, capitalism has its flaws, monopolistic behavior being one of them, and being able to line the politicians pockets with cash is another big one. I think that’s the big thing we should focus on. Capitalism is supposed to let the free market decide what thrives and fails. Where we screwed up is that we let the American government provide more bailouts to its corporations than its citizens. The government is supposed to be the socialist mediator to keep corporations in check, but we’ve allowed it to become the opposite by letting them give viagra to companies that should not be still standing. Dunno if I had an ultimate end point, but I guess if I did, it would be that I don’t think that capitalism itself is bad, I think America’s current implementation of it is.

[@Remake5182]

Cognitive...

[@jahovashalom17]

@Second Thought I got to say it like it is. This is nonsense.... Government funded insentive is no less an insentive than one that is privately funded. Here is some back ground for an example of the "government run" development of the internet: How the Internet came to be part 1- kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4a2pZWsh9Oqo7M How the Internet came to be part 2- kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3TWgXuBf7ycrZI The government simply had a need and it hired various individuals, and universities to solve those needs. In this example, This is how the first ARPA net was created, and later when the government closed it's program it is this exact same need and incentive model that drove the innovations the propelled us far beyond the government ARPA platform completed just a few years ago. The government originally didn't even see a need for it until they were convinced by private citizens of it's worth. In the end the government's role in it's development was of no more necessity to the development of the internet than the publics role in providing the insentive for leaps in advancement made far beyond what was concieved of in the original design. This may be part of the reason why the government has also since turned over the greater bulk of it's research to private businesses for greater efficiency. That is of course if it is not actually the case that they turned over the matter altogether to the market completely. This is the case for the majority of (if not all) other advancements by the "government" which were actually motivated by "profit seeking" companies, individuals, institutions, and business seeking to solve a problem. And this is if I grant your erroneous claim that the free market was driven by solely greed. Nobody should believe that if they have any common sense or understanding that people are not machines. The difference here is that in order for people to act independently people must be free to do so, even if that means we run the risk of people acting out of self interest or immorally. In the end socialism restricts both these things which are necessary for a benevolent and free world . (That being, The greater *moral belief system* of a free society and the the *freedom of the people* to act of their own accord.) Also, where the original ideas for these invations where actually the cullmantion of several people over several generations, in near every of these cases where the government was involved it was not simply the government but rather military expediency that provided the need for these advancements. The point here is that, it was free individuals not bound by a micromanaging government and red tap burocracy being allowed to work of their own anatomy that allowed for innovation. The government's role was absolutely unnecessary to this process and it's quite possible (if anything) it may have stifled the process given what we know about how government facilities are run. This is also apart from how slow and somewhat inefficient the first internet system was compared with what was developed just a few years following their release of the program. Further more competition is only as good where there is no unfair advantage. If anything the centralization of resources form a government for their favored groups and business is the true culprit for unfair advantage and a stifled market. If each company were responsible for developing their own business without the backing of government interest, then they would not have anymore than anyone else making performance nessary to remain profitable as they would only get paid for what they produce, rather than the immeasurably inflated funding artificially manufactured by the federal central bank, far exceeding the value of what decades of work could provide. And again that is only if I buy into this straw man perspective of greed as the sole motivator of our society as you yourself in your video have tried to show need not be the case in development. What you are instead describing is an immoral society rather than one that is based on, *Values, Freedom,* and mutual trade. Such immorality need not be absent in a socialist society, and not without far worse consiquensess overall regarding insentive to develop and all other societal issues. Further more, the government cannot provide what it has yet to produce by those who need to produce what has not yet been provided. A pipe dream does not count as an insentive. Also, Russia declares that it is no longer a socialist state. Though they may have developed these systems under some socialist control, I am inclined to believe that just as in every case with these examples socialists give that the advancements of these systems evidently involved some insentive model. Perhaps it could be said that even America is not entirely a capatilistst country having many social welfare programs. But where insentive to work stops and free things are available, there is where the draining, unproductive and restrictive effects of socialism takes hold. And while an economy can often beer the burden of such socialist economic weight, it is evident that all societies that historically have been wholly reliant upon it have been catastrophic failures. And Again, greed need not be the primary assumption of capatlisum. Freedom of the individual is. However, human need is a human issue which can often turn to greed, and freedom is a danger to a socialist economy wholey dependent on the dedicated actions of the individuals nessary to provide those needs. The human issue is the true problem, and you in all your videos have and simply will never be able to address it. And while a government may find ways to force people to work or possibly course some to innovate, Without private ownership, their can be no division of power to address the the horrors that have occurred time and time again when power is centralized in one place. That being said, You can sit around for the rest of your life taking history and society out of context in order to try to find some way to justify the inexcusably counterproductive thinking that underlines the ideas behind socialism. However, in the end the only people you will succeed in deluding are the people who already want to be deviced as you are. For everyone else who are not already possessed by the phycological insanity of this possessive belief, it is clear that socialism is nothing more than an existential threat to the lives and welling being of all, and the minute this simplistic and shortsighted rational is brought about to it's true nature in the world, countless people will suffer and die in unspeakable ways in a nightmare society is likely never to recover from. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmqUoH5sf6pggLM kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJy6nZmZpa6qqqc

[@hypertronic2559]

Insane how bad this video did in terms of views. Guess someone doesn't want us to learn about socialism

[@archvaldor]

People who think you can get rich inventing something have never looked into the absurd difficulty of that in practice, even after you invent something amazing. Nine times out of ten the inventor gets screwed over by a bottom feeder.

[@RosscoAW]

Far more than nine times out of ten. Most hostile takeovers are, by their nature, not publicly disclosed, and the new "owner" rarely takes any form of direct involvement, usually keeping the prior CEO and management on as sorts of figureheads to operate the enterprise without drawing any attention to the predatory owners personage.

[@alixyz]

Completely agree, the wellbeing of people and the planet must not be hindered by the profit motive any longer. Every day that control isn't democratic, the more unfathomable the human costs become.

[@coolioso808]

People first, should come from a movement for a fundamental system change. Because the system is the sickness. While we don't want change to be so abrupt to make life harder for people who it is already hard on, we do need to disrupt the current system so the ruling elites have to take notice and heed our demands. It would be helpful the more people know about viable alternative systems we can transition to, like socialism or natural law resource based economies. The specifics of how to transition are up in the air, but it is possible that a push for a Universal Basic Income, as a human right due to technological unemployment and to help slow things down and refocus on the environmental crisis, might be the tool that could get us from this unsustainable capitalist system towards something better like a RBE.

[@taxthesocialist2602]

But you idioits deny one important element; human nature. Your system DOESN'T get rid, let alone address, the heart you proclaim to be viciously against. Leftism is a fairytale for edgy adults.

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

"'Isms' do not create things, workers do. 'Isms' only decides who gets paid." That's one for the books.

[@thevictor180]

"Ecology is profoundly subversive of capitalism. It needs planned, environmentally sustainable production rather than the rapacious unregulated kind. It requires economical consumption rather than an artificially stimulated, ever-expanding consumerism. It calls for natural, low-cost energy systems rather than profitable, high-cost, polluting ones. Ecology’s implications for capitalism are too horrendous for the capitalist to contemplate." - Blackshirts and reds by Michael Parenti

[@Ti-kp9gh]

When I was a kid, I dreamed of being an inventor when I grew up. It wasn’t money that motivated me but the excitement and joy at the prospect of making things that haven’t existed before.

[@chocotoasties2671]

People who don't have to worry about rent or where their next meal can innovate more due to more freetime

[@tankpiggy]

@@WednesdayShortsDance 🤮

[@rkvkydqf]

Thanks for mentioning open-source. I think it's worth a separate episode about copy-left licenses and how they can help to resist recuperation.

[@hampuslagergren4693]

I am not a patrion but sew you only had 48k views and thought you deserve more for such a good video. I agree for the most part (live in sweden so not hard to convince ;P ) Keep up the good work man!

[@dimka9448]

I'm Cuban and moved to Europe over a year ago. Coincidence, I'm in Cuba right now visiting. I use this background to give some veracity to my words. I like the content you make, and despite the dictatorial ways of the Cuban government, the lack of freedom of speech and many other downsides that are not inherent of a socialist model but of a despotic and police state, I support Socialism and I believe it is the way forward. Yet, I want to clarify something in your video. We in Cuba did develop great vaccines, even for COVID, which could translate as innovation without profit seeking, but I want to clarify some aspects: - Creating a vaccine for COVID came at the cost of losing many lives, and people criticize this because there was and still is a program for countries to purchase vaccines and submitting to it it's actually cheaper than creating a vaccine. The Cuban government chose to produce a vaccine of it's own to encourage tourism to the island for people who wanted to get vaccinated for free. So in this case, this innovation WAS encouraged by profit. - Sadly, innovation can be seen in Cuba only or mainly in the the Healthcare system. Many projects promoted by universities, like my thesis regarding the making of laws that are enforced by the citizens and not actual enforcement forces (policies that are used in many US states), are not considered by the government or are discarded, which makes many collage students and professors feel neglected and their potential wasted. This is not an argument but a clarification: I do not name this elements in order to disregard this video, your channel or your content. At the contrary, I do it to enrich your vission and to warn you to be careful when using examples, for I just proved how delicate it is, at least Cuba when taking it as an example.

[@Lucas-hb1uq]

I love to invent and to build new things. I feel my day job and need for capital just to have a decent existence keeps me from being able to pursue this passion. Also I don’t want to become rich off of anything I invent or build. I literally want to make things that better people’s lives or the environment but no one would invest in things that don’t offer a return. Capitalism literally stifles innovation.

[@Lucas-hb1uq]

@Feng With technology I created myself in my garage. You should see the device I created to communicate with capitalists, it looks like something out of Fallout.

[@Lucas-hb1uq]

@Feng True but you will never know. Some comments aren’t worth making either but you still made one.

[@heidibenner1577]

A capitalist bootlicker in here? 🤮

[@tccragun]

@Feng the answers to your questions and rebuttals to your comments are within this video ! Watch it and weep, capitalist !

[@Lucas-hb1uq]

@Feng Oh yes, capitalism is working as it was intended alright. Most systems are designed for the user but in the system of capitalism we design the users for the system. We send kids to school at an early age not for a proper education but to indoctrinate them to fight their natural wants and needs in order to fit in the system properly. Those who don’t fit into that system are ostracized or diagnosed with maladies. We push them (even the brilliant ones) into menial jobs to make sure the take part in the system.

[@damienanthro3010]

... last I checked innovation was a natural drive. We're always looking for ways to make things easier and better.

[@user-sz8jp7tv1m]

“It’s a natural drive” is the worst argument ever, it’s what right wing people say to justify homophobia for example

[@damienanthro3010]

@@user-sz8jp7tv1m two problems here. I'm a homosexual, and I'm a leftist/socialist. That and I don't see how in this context that it would be an invalid argument. Psychology and socialism are two completely different arenas.

[@user-sz8jp7tv1m]

@@damienanthro3010 I’m completely opposed to any argument that bases it’s merit on the flimsy vague idea of human nature… humans have absolutely zero physical advantages over potential predators, so if we were to follow nature’s pecking order as intended then we would have gone extinct centuries ago… human nature isn’t a buffet where we pick what we like and dismiss what we don’t like, you either accept nature on nature’s terms or you take my stance which is to admit that the thriving of humanity is actually a result of us going against nature completely… our form of communication now is totally unnatural, if it were up to nature the only way we could communicate is yelling across a jungle or forest or desert

[@nostrem82]

@@user-sz8jp7tv1m you're taking a very simplistic and childish view on the matter. maybe put down the religious rubbish and read a real book

[@damienanthro3010]

@@user-sz8jp7tv1m where the heck did your education fail you? And what tangent are you trying to go off on? And what in the goddess' blessings does this have to do with a discussion on the topics of the video?

[@TirgaTheMadcat]

These last few videos have just been amazing. Simple, interesting and addressing many of the common arguments we hear about Capitalism and socialism. Thank you for taking your time and making these videos, it's truly appreciated.

[@ahben98]

Just an additional point to consider: capitalism stifles the innovations of the workers as they do not benefit from the innovations they bring about. Even if the worker can make their work more efficient, they wont in a capitalist society because in the end either the company appropriates the innovation and profits from it without giving back to the innovator, or they sack workers because less man hours are needed to do the same amount of work, or both. And the workers are some of the most innovative people since they are the ones who actually encounter the problems and are lazy enough to want to make their jobs easier and more efficient.

[@ahben98]

@@theBear89451 just because you have experienced an exception does not make it the rule. Also, please elaborate on the kind of companies that you worked at because the kind of companies referred to in this post refer to those of larger scale. Of course there are smaller companies that value their employees and their inputs more, but under capitalism, most companies trend toward operating on a larger scale and end up as those companies where employee inputs do not count for squat.

[@mcduckington]

The fridge my grandma bough in socialist Hungary in the 70s: still working. The fridge I bought in capitalist Hungary: dies just after the warranty expires. Capitalist innovation is selling you shitty products that don't last, but putting shiny marketing on it.

[@natesmodelsdoodles5403]

Soviet Trams: still running about 70 years after being built My local capitalist-built and capitalist-bought LRT with all it's bells and whistles: dies at the drop of a hat, especially in a Canadian winter.

[@dave_sic1365]

My grandma's Miele dishwasher and washing machine are still fine even though they come from a capitalist country.

[@mjkittredge]

manufactured obsolescence. It's designed to fail, designed to break down. Like cars, like phones. To milk boomer yuppies of their disposable income. "But look at all the new features! How cool, huh?"

[@ericb.4313]

A phrase that has never been said in the history of ever: "How did I come up with this great innovation? Well, I had a boss that was barking orders and breathing down my neck the whole time screaming at me to innovate." Also: was that tweet at 2:15 real? I've seen too many of his tweets to know how unfunny he is, but I throw watered-down memes into his quotes with no context as a joke.

[@Tumatutuma]

I've tried to find this tweet myself. Google didn't show any results.

[@ilyer4199]

Who’s going to innovate an escape faster: - a guy trapped in a room with food and water and entertainment and everything else he wants. -a guy trapped in a room with nothing

[@avokado1386]

@@ilyer4199 more like: - a guy trapped in a room with his boss that wants the highest profits in the short term to show to their investors how "the green line went up this quarter!" or - a guy who wants to make the next rent payment and not starve to death constantly under threat of losing basic human needs you clearly havent even watched the video if you still defend capitalism after this. what you said is just a rehashed version of the "welfare queen" myth, busted time and time again. Newton had no profit motive. Darwin had no profit motive. Einstein had no profit motive. having your needs met doesnt mean you suddenly put everything down and shut off your brain.

[@DharmaMirror]

@@Tumatutuma people who say stupid shit on Twitter are usually quick to delete their stupid shit.

[@ilyer4199]

@@avokado1386 those people are the same though… like that’s my point, those people are motivated to innovate and perform or lose their job. Almost like a Freudian slip from you. I have watched the video, but I have found most points irrelevant or unconvincing. I’m not saying that innovation can’t come from no profit motives, but that with an extra motive, people are more kotivated

[@theloganpresley]

I like how you outline the way something is built to work, then you tell us how it has worked, and then proceed to give a useful anecdote. Top-down conceptual coverage is lit

[@GaiusdanhnhanAugustus]

As a med student, I can't help but feel especially sorry for the researchers in the medical space who are unknown, unsung to the outside world, as opposed to those whose entire life's work is just buying some stocks (looking at you, Warren Buffett); and unfairly treated by the very journals they publish their studies to.

[@nrrork]

Innovation gave us Grand Theft Auto. Capitalism gave us Grand Theft Auto ONLINE.

[@mickeyhadley4281]

No, innovation can’t take place under socialism. I worked for years in facilities maintenance and improved many systems and policies under my tenure. Looking back on it, there’s no way I could have thought of and then made changes had the government given me free healthcare and ensured my workers had a living wage. /s

[@kaliascythes2454]

I was going to question this but the sheer fact your using tones tags means ur probably joking

[@Alex_Barbosa]

@@kaliascythes2454 you dodged the woosh

[@ezio_mis]

Almost cursed your next 7 generation

[@johnathanpratt944]

LOL, for real 🤣, you almost got somebody

[@johnathanpratt944]

There needs to be defensive measures made to allow communities to experiment with socialism, and fair trade rules need to be established with those communities to give them potential to see how they fare.

[@purplehaze2358]

"Socialism is when no Iphone" is truly my favorite Marx quote, so profound and thought-provoking.

[@kit2770]

"Isms dont create things. Workers do. Isms only decide who gets paid." Great line. 👍

[@Passionate_Potato]

Favorite part of Friday is Second thought video release!

[@SecondThought]

Hope you enjoy this one!

[@barockobummer2448]

Capitalism breeds innovation Guy named innovation: 😳

[@homemadefilms5718]

This video reminds me of a quote I read somewhere. It was along the lines of: "Humanity is going to be the only species to let itself die because it wasn't cost effective"

[@comradeoffset]

i loved the subtle nod to hakim’s old hair dryer story. as always jt, amazing video!

[@artypyrec4186]

I had an argument about this around last year. The space race isn't communism vs capitalism it was a government controlled organization vs a government ran organization.

[@icyx9268]

exactly and also there is quick small amounts of technical problems solved by government controlled orgs / jeff or elo But for long turm what can actually make a difference and that doesn't require single manipulative brutes to Not quit when it gets hard like they do they dont work at that

[@esc5272]

that quote from Karl Marx really is thought provoking. The man was ahead of his time

[@tinycube-autocast]

a game some random person made in their spare time can be SO MUCH MORE than whatever any Triple A Game studio can offer, as well as the indie game usually being cheaper too!

[@coolbanana165]

Don't some corporations buy patents just to keep the lockaway so they don't disrupt (innovate) the market? Along with patent lengths being longer than necessary to make back money. It just means even when new things are invented they're just lost in some corporate hellhole for years or decades.

[@ShubhamBhushanCC]

I'd say that it's only possible to innovate under socialism. Because it frees you from the burden of just staying alive

[@nazbolharold8487]

Based and True Big brother

[@minegnomek9451]

It's clearly not only possible under socialism.

[@barnabuskorrum4004]

like legit.

[@soggmeisterlasagnagarfield]

True. If Steve Jobs didn’t have a family or friends that let him stay in there homes, he probably would’ve just worked as an underpaid manufacturer.

[@taxthesocialist2602]

When you grant all power to a centralized big government, what could go wrong? It's hilarious how leftietards hate religion but you worship said government like a god. You must naive enough to think those who work for the government and all the politicians won't ever get corrupt. That worked sooooo well for 100+ million that socialists and commies slaughtered during the 20th century to achieve an outdated fairytale by a mad man.

[@kanhapandey3639]

His last two videos effectively counter almost every 'strong' argument capitalism supporters have to offer.

[@coolioso808]

Yes, they've been very well done and important videos for people who keep running into bogus defences of capitalism. There is not just defence of capitalism. None. The more people realize that, the better.

[@BigRodd91]

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights and property. Socialism is a social system based on the naive belief of state/group ownership. Capitalism breeds Individualism. Socialism breeds Communism.

[@shepardice3775]

​@@BigRodd91 This sounds like something the Ministry of Truth told you lmao. "Socialism breeds communism" - based. Capitalism does not breed nor foster the individual. Believe it or not, Marx was keenly interested in the individual and individual liberty. He recognized that the only way to achieve one's maximum individuality and the total realization of the individual was as part of a whole. It is only by through mutual development of each other that we can express our individuality as much as possible in a society, and that takes the form of communism. Capitalism, on the other hand, makes us abstractions. We are commodified and reduced to the value of our labour, or the abstract ideas of bourgeois rights. We cease to be ourselves and instead just share "fundamental characteristics" with everyone else. I find it so funny that so many of the objections to socialism are just what capitalism _actually_ does.

[@beforethegate8461]

@@shepardice3775 How does communism support individual rights? Why should I be a propery of the state?

[@BdR76]

Another example of innovation without capitalism is the *Lua programming language* . It was invented at the university of Rio de Janeiro due to trade barriers i.e. closing down parts of the free market. The language is used in games like Angry Birds and Dota 2.

[@brendoncrave504]

Love the shoutout to the open source community. I often use that as an example for what can be accomplished without a profit motive, and how humans are naturally cooperative.

[@SOG1172]

“Bro i’m telling you bro. Everyones gonna be lazy bro. Profit motive bro thats the only way has survived bro. Thats the only thing humanity has ever known bro. Please bro. I’m not a thumb bro.”

[@PakBallandSami]

"To me, what socialism means is to guarantee a basic level of dignity. It's asserting the value of saying that the America we want and the America that we are proud of is one in which all children can access a dignified education. It's one in which no person is too poor to have the medicines they need to live" --Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[@soggmeisterlasagnagarfield]

Dude. I had not been paying attention to AOC. That quote alone gives me hope for this nation. Hopefully she’s able to follow through with that statement and isn’t just bogged down with misinformation and false narratives like MLK. Which is probably what will happen. I have lost all hope for this nation.

[@jns6320]

She said that back in 2018. Too bad AOC is a social democrat now. Had lots of hope for her.

[@coolioso808]

@@jns6320 Yep, AOC is just an actress and sheep-herder for the (Anti) Democratic Party. There are no real progressives in the Democratic party, nor will there ever be, because any real progressive would know that BOTH Establishment parties do not represent the interests of the people, they represent the interests of the corporations with the most money. Period. If you care to vote anymore, only vote 3rd party. But voting and caring about politicians 'nice words' is mostly a big waste of time. Most effort and motivation should go into system-change projects and movements. Local movements and projects to build self-sustainability as well as solidarity groups who understand the system is the sickness and that is what needs to change.

[@taxthesocialist2602]

Let's see if she still holds that view when we reduce her paycheck to $30,000 a year. She makes more than the average American. Remember. She works for us. WE DON'T WORK FOR HER. Our taxes pay her salary.

[@soggmeisterlasagnagarfield]

@@taxthesocialist2602 that will make her more socialist.

[@shayan_idk]

it makes me really sad to see your videos not getting the views they deserve. its quite obvious youtube has ghostblocked u after your political videos started going viral, proving theres a huge audience interested in them. im so sorry about that, i just want u to know despite the views, your videos are better than ever and i look forward to them every single day of the week. i love your channel so much and appreciate it so much that despite the views u continue to make videos, its clear u are a genuine, honest and passionate person whos doing this to educate people and simple because its the right thing to do. any other channel would have switched back to their original or different content type to catch the views. its why despite my difficult financial situation you are the first person i subscribed to on patreon, its not much but i really really hope you keep up the good work. lots of love

[@1KOLYANOS1]

About longevity. I've lived in a Siberian university's dorm for 4 years, here in my room was a very old refrigerator called Ока "Oka", manufactured back in 80's, and I assure you this old fella still works, and does it's basic functions (refrigerating and freezing food) well till this day (only needs additional freon Infusion every 5 years, as previous owner said). Also my roommate used his grandma's hair dryer from 80's as well(I think he still uses it till this very day), while mine cheap Chinese hairdryer died after 2 years of use.

[@MrDrProffPatrick]

Every Friday I listen to these videos as I get off work, ends my week perfectly

[@melloncollic]

Thanks for including the other side of things about innovation under socialism/outside of capitalism. Critique of the capitalist narrative often lacks an alternative being presented and I appreciate that you did! 🙂

[@behr121002]

OH, and as a 'PS', let's not forget (since I have come across this so many times) that there was _another_ person instrumental in _founding_ the Apple company at its inception, who seems to always be left out of the loop: Steve Wozniak, co-developer of the first Apple computers, and _perhaps_ arguably the 'hardware', nuts-and-bolts technical wizard.

[@garjopogi1044]

You have become one of my favourite KZbinrs!! Helped me understand a lot of complex topics. Thank you so much! You are using your talents to help others haha

[@chrisharris7044]

Has the Bell Laboratory experiment just been memory-holed? Some of the most cutting edge research done WITHOUT looking towards profit.

[@craighealy4069]

Thank you so much second thought I’m such a huge fan of your videos you are a true hero to the cause of socialism thank you

[@SecondThought]

You’re too kind 🥰

[@coolioso808]

Great Second Thought video! Well researched and very good references to help make your points. Keep up all the great work!

[@oneofus6924]

Great work as always sir. I am happy to see 1.3mil subs, you certainly deserve 10x that.

[@anathematic5083]

I just want to talk to whoever thought 'cheese scented nail polish' was a thing we needed in the world

[@WesternCommie]

I love your videos, man.. Every one of them is on such a great topic.

[@SecondThought]

Thanks so much!

[@Tristan97122]

While the note on open source is correct, one has to nuance it differently. Rather than it being just kindness abused by megacorps, that cooperative model is so efficient that almost all large tech companies actually end up paying their own employees to contribute freely; the idea being that they essentially cut costs by all investing in the same projects. Doesn't change the original point, but just thought it's actually a stronger even thing than it seems at first.

[@RosscoAW]

Unironically a good example of how capitalism inevitably automates itself into a situation of socioeconomic crisis.

[@TheSaxAppeal]

What's funny to me is modern cellphone technology was first conceptualized by a soviet scientist, yet capitalists will say smartphones wouldn't exist without capitalism. I can't wait until every worker wakes up and realizes that this ain't it - and takes a stand

[@markm3065]

This is exactly what Second Thought does...educate. Search KZbin for “Literally step 1 of 5 on how to fix America”. You'll find a treat and a very well researched understanding of something most people don't understand about the media and one of the root problems of America. Second Thought would be proud.

[@forstudentpower]

Those doing the work - the workers ourselves - are best positioned to innovate. The past 100+ years has shown that bosses, investors, and states (whether capitalist or not) are best positioned to get in the way.

[@Darkman-ug2he]

Interesting thing about the Internet: It is not just, that many aspects come from public research, the standards that define most of the internet are actively shielded from too much capitalist exploitation. New standards have generally to be either completely open and free or at least are severely restricted in how pattent holders can give or refuse licesnses

[@FluffyEnbyneering]

This got to be one of the best channels on KZbin, if not the best

[@CEO_Of_Racism-fk3qv]

Very nice video JT but have you ever consider vuvuzela 🤔🤔

[@SecondThought]

Hmmm Marx failed to consider vuvuzela 100 gorillion dead big spoon no iPhone 🤔

[@narrgamedesigner2747]

Apple promotes and is the embodiment of stifled innovation, since the models arent too much different from the last model, I think that also applies to most phones.

[@dave_sic1365]

Why do people use such a shit product? Because it's a Statussymbol. Its the latest interpretation of jewelry, apple products are no tools (they arent anymore)

[@botchedmandala5197]

I love that you put a reading list with it :)

[@Ryan_hey]

I've worked with some brilliant minds in engineering/comp sci, none were ever driven by a profit-motive. A great salary merely allowed them to follow their hunger for developing new and innovative tech. There was never a competitive aspect that drove-it was innovation.