Can This Grudge Be Satisfied? Dwarfs vs Chaos Dwarfs - Total War Warhammer 3

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[@mmorkinism]

Magma cannon taking basically any infantry unit out in 2 hits is insane.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

It has to be as a single piece of artillery. And 2 hits is just 50% hp dmg from what I saw.

[@TankManHeavy]

Yeah its way overtuned, same with the bull centaur renders.

[@Anvilarm07]

Hurrah for the Dawi. A grudge in the great book is erased.

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

Yet the Book of Grudges remains full.

[@grimdarhk]

BURN THIER BEARDS, THEY'RE NO TRUE DAWI!

[@JK-gy2bc]

Have you considered using Bolt Throwers as a cheap tech against Magma Cannons? I haven't tested it, but on paper with their anti-large, accurate ammunition, and cheap cost they might be pretty good against the Chaos Dwarf artillery. Edit: Tested it just now. 1 Bolt Thrower loses against a Magma Cannon, that result is kind of expected. However, 2 Bolt Throwers put a Magma Cannon in a dumpster and locks the lid. 2 Bolter Throwers is 1,100 gold, while 1 Magma Cannon is 1,050 gold. Even when I let the artillery duel each other the Bolt Thrower that was attacked by the Magma Cannon lost only 1 artillery piece, while the other Bolt Thrower unit was untouched. Definitely something to look at on the smaller domination maps.

[@-nav-398]

I don't know if it would even make a difference, but I really wish the items Dwarf heroes could bring would actually be changed to some of the better ones from after the rework. All I can think of is the Thanes with Silver Horns that give something like +12% charge bonus for a limited time and just wonder when that would ever be worth it.

[@MultiGamer20211]

Agreed. +12% for a race that averages like 8 CB? That's pathetic. Why is it even an item?

[@davidb8539]

Me too. Giving the Dawi a charge bonus is like putting an ashtray on a motorbike. I don't know what they could give them that would be lore accurate though,

[@bortoo6634]

Its actually been a flat +12 charge bonus for some time

[@roidrager8579]

@@davidb8539 shard dragons and rune golems would be a great start in my opinion. Doesn’t fix the problems with their existing units though.

[@nickaretta1329]

Game One-itis is still felt in most of the old races. Empire, Dwarfs, Greenskins, Bretonnia... suffering from worthless generic lords, lords like Ungrim whose items are all garbage or Gelt who has almost nothing special about him, heroes with barely any battlefield role... Power creep and refined systems are inevitable, but all their "reworks" seemed to just add a couple campaign systems and totally neglected their sandbox.

[@Sarum9nich]

Chorfs are filthy op. Always root against them.

[@Has_Skill_Issues]

The "Evil Lawn Gnome of Doom".. That is fucking good.

[@RuYourBoat]

I feel like there were a ton of cinematic shots in this video, like the bombing run around 10:37. it was great!

[@AverySadBear]

Green tide on Chorfs is surprisingly viable. You can swarm points with goblins and orks and just bring in fireglaives to shoot things.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

I'm surprised dread quake mortar is not used more often. You can use it as a chariot as well and 1 shot should basically delete a dwarf archer/thunderer/anything tied up in melee.

[@aersla1731]

Such a close game lol I'm surprised we don't have an engineer lord yet for the dwarfs

[@brabhamF1]

Engineer and some actual buffs to the Flame Cannon. The unit was viable in exactly one build for like 1 patch ever since WH1.

[@easytanksgaming3238]

Add some active ability to flamecannon with long cooldown. Like "steam overcharge" or smthng like that, giving the flamecannon effective 420 range for 22 seconds. With engineer nearby, activating ballistic ability, the cannon would have a windows to delete enemy artillery for 22 seconds easily. If all things are done good, of cos)

[@Lukashoffmann94]

@@easytanksgaming3238 ??? How would 420 range on a flame cannon help against all the single entity artilleries introduced in WH3?

[@easytanksgaming3238]

@@Lukashoffmann94 +10% range from ability and u will have more than enough to shoot first. Flamecannon shots are quite good against sem targets, which magma cannon are. U just need to hit and hit often

[@shiggydiggy6847]

If there is dwarf DLC I expect we'll get Malakai Makaisson with the generic engineer lord option.

[@Vahkitauti]

I don't know whether to hate or love the commitment to dwarven roleplay in every comments section. Grumble on, true Longbeards.

[@ehsteve231]

"Great Taurus has done great......... News at 6" Involuntary laugh at work moment for me

[@TheSakurambou]

Gyrobombers (and other Gyro units) tend to be rather unresponsive when moving after they've been staying still. I'm guessing it has something to do with their acceleration. And trying to run away from other flyers usually doesn't go that well if they get too close. Even if the Gyros are faster on paper if they start their charge they'll most likely catch up. One way to deal with monstrous flyers is to have two gyrobombers, one to kite and the other to shoot at it and keep up the suppression effect. I do wonder how the Irondrake RoR would do in this matchup. They do have 40% fire resistance, 20% physical resistance and 125 armour so they should be a bit more durable than most things on the Dawi roster.

[@blindwoozie]

Love to see the Dawi pull through!

[@ruohaoli7503]

4:17 that’s gonna go into the book!

[@MrJoneschase]

“The first wave is going to come relatively shortly” Welp add that insult to the Great Book of Grudges.

[@moidalize]

You gotta have Gotrek in reserve so he can run to the center objective like a wrestler at Royal Rumble.

[@50043211]

Family feuds are always the most vicious ...

[@tubsy7797]

Satisfy the grudge!!! Great work again. Have you seen the new article about the old world returning? Very exciting stuff.

[@turinRTS]

Yes I have!!!

[@tubsy7797]

@@turinRTS I’m painting up a big block of empire halberds atm. They might actually rank up on 25mm bases 😂😂

[@bziganti]

Proving again how much the dwarfs need a dlc

[@aersla1731]

Or a buff....

[@kenny940121]

They win many matchups.. They just cant win with every faction xD

[@ScrumChum]

​@@kenny940121 No they must have NO bad match ups or they are under powered. Something something in the book.

[@grimdarhk]

@Martin Torres it's not bad match ups. They got a single shitty dlc in game one. Ay least empire got one decent dlc and a shit one lol

[@AurioDK]

I have never seen them win a tournament.

[@majormoolah5056]

GG! Would a Runesmith with just the Rune of Slowness be a good idea? With just the one rune he's 600 gold and the Rune stacks with the Flash Bomb effect... so they could really freeze Astragoth and the Renders.

[@nathandesa6773]

That is actually a pretty good idea. Cut one thane and bring the runesmith and he could probably hard counter Astragoth.

[@Zergling.]

@@nathandesa6773 What you do with the extra 150 funds? enginner is 750. you do still have 50 leftover too, so 200 extra funds

[@nathandesa6773]

@@Zergling. hmm I'm not the best at multi-player, but I think with those funds he could either go for an item or ability on one of the characters or upgrade a dwarf warrior to a Longbeard. I'D have to go in and play around a bit with the army creator to get an idea of what id do.

[@darylho7345]

Runesmith may get sniped by Astrochad. I think the Thanes did good work in holding back the goon squad though

[@Zergling.]

@@nathandesa6773 I am not a multiplayer either, thats why i asked, but ty anyway for your answer.

[@fistimusmaximus6576]

God I wish dwarves were givern access to trade caravans, I know cathay and charves have it but lore wise fits with them.

[@Mancboy2000]

There is a mod for it, Bretonia and Empire as well

[@stephenjenkins7971]

I mean, tbh, caravans fits most of the Order factions in general.

[@MyViolador]

They should. Varakvarr is a very important trade port for the dorfs but ca never did something with it

[@Lightzy1]

"and now we bring out the range"---BOOOM--- Rangers half hp in 1 hit. "Ok so we now we brought the gunpowd---BOOOM--- Thunderers half hp in 1 hit. Chorfs don't outplay you, they just outpick you.

[@thepinms]

Chorfs are really crazy they are generalists with multiple best in class units with magma canons and bull centaurs.

[@dalta74]

one tech I can recommend it seems that organ guns seem to trade very well into the infernal ironsworn and the great tarus as well

[@Zashzila]

I like how Astergoth dumpsters Archaon in terms of stats speed and cost. Just insane mistake with that one. Sorry I can't not post how op he is. Side note, chorfs look like a fun faction that could really shine after some nerfs.

[@thorindt85]

Omg, that‘s been the most entertaining video this far. More dwarfs pls!

[@healinglight333]

Masterful play Turin!! Congratulations! 🙂🙂

[@teosandev6116]

"axe these guys a question" - thats a new one for me, almost spat my coffee. :D

[@insearchofprometheus]

And another grudge has been settled.

[@laytonstainbrook1760]

Interestingly, on a fairly rudimentary test, two dwarven bolt throwers out trade a magma cannon even if the magma cannon is firing on them till they get in range. Hard to say if it would be at all consistent in a multiplayer setting, but it could be an interesting and fairly cost efficient tech. The two bolt throwers only cost 50 more than a magma and are a pretty cheap investment all things considered. Even if/when they're compromised it's not a huge loss.

[@brimwild4454]

Been waiting for this match

[@eumaies]

cannons, bugmans, gyros, and slayers are key here.

[@virtuian1]

Turin’s mullet image will be immortalized in the Hall of Heroes

[@aethewulf4787]

Im waiting for some chad to bring Belegar! btw does anyone think giving him AP and some cost reduction would be too op of a buff?

[@easytanksgaming3238]

Yeah, would be too. Belegar is hell of a tanky boy, so he should not have a great AP, fitting the role of the constant frontline holder. But make him cheaper is a good idea, people too rarely pick him. Cos grombrindal hits and hits hard, even if he die lot "quicker"

[@leorodrigues7368]

Although I would love it as a dwarf fan, I understand why they don't give him ap to balance his tankiness (although blunt weapons like war hammers are excellent against armours but anyway). But someone who should be getting ap is Thorgrim fucking grudgebearer. He is wielding an axe, and this is no mere axe, this is one of the 2 Grimnir axes! But Karl Franz eventually got ap on foot (Because of Gal Maraz), so I have hope that at some point Thorgrim will get ap too

[@khelgarironfist3301]

@@easytanksgaming3238 "Belegar is hell of a tanky boy, so he should not have a great AP," Gor-Rok has entered the chat (along with tons of other similar characters with AP and shit). Making him cheaper is also an awful idea, he's already cheap. Anymore cheaper and he's cheaper than a generic lord lol. The main reason why Bel and Thorgrim don't have AP is to not devalue the other lords in the roster with AP. Back in days CA were really not so "creative".

[@philg8994]

CA should give Dwarfs Golems

[@dmytroharkavchenko-ff9xt]

Literally anything would be welcomed. They were barely changed since wh1

[@tubsy7797]

Rune Golems would be amazing.

[@Ares42]

Archers are probably good against Magma Cannons because it's a single fairly big model. Most other artillery units archers would be shooting at the crew which are small and few in numbers, so you get far more misses. And you won't have any missed damage from overkill or arrows targetting mobs that died during the travel time.

[@lapocoltellini5717]

By showing that dwarf miniature you Just unlocked so many Lost Memories hahahahha

[@SimoLInk1698]

Sweaty match up to the end, well played! Just a question, why didn't you bring Ulthar's raiders? I feel like their mark could really help in shutting down the magma cannons early, if you pair it with the other rangers' focus fire.

[@lordderpington8021]

Looking forward to a skaven-chorf matchup. Who has better ranged?

[@callumcochrane7759]

Chorfs win artillery with magmas, skaven win the midrange shooting with weapons teams, and up close I feel like skaven globes and death runners are better than blunderbusses

[@Count.Saruman]

​@@callumcochrane7759 Nah. Skaven win the artillery duels quite handily. The Magma cannons are just better at clearing infantry..

[@bruuuuuuuuhhhh]

​@@Count.Saruman Deathshrieker wins arty duels quite handily, even against batteries. Plus you have Hoblins who can flank quite fast and shut down the arty unless you babysit your plagueclaws or Lightning Cannons

[@nickaretta1329]

​@@Count.Saruman With the enormous, flimsy models of Warp Lightnings, it being a crewed artillery, and it having Skaven leadership, the Discourage and ridiculous damage/DOT of the Magmas can crush them, unless Skaven really overinvest to multiple pieces. Warp Lightnings in general seem to break very easily in artillery duels, and Magmas being an SEM will definitely edge out

[@shiggydiggy6847]

Bull centaurs seem really dominant in every match I see, which is a bit strange since their stat profiles are very similar minotaurs with similar weapon variants. Only differences being that minos have their kill passive, while bull centaurs have around 20% more health per model and 25% missile resist. It might be that the better ranged support lets them do more than minotaurs can in the more melee focused rosters, or the extra survivability just matters that much.

[@turinRTS]

Yeah, its weird!

[@Pewling]

With enough satchel charges, yes.

[@citizenzero5437]

Hey Turin, are you planning to do a faction tier listnat any stage. Would be worth seeing where they stand

[@Jakzul1]

Finally!!! Glorious victory.

[@1998topornik]

The Grudge War begins!

[@GonAdventures]

Hey Turin, how good is Felix in the Dwarves vs Chaos Dwarves match up? I think CD already struggle to take down infantry single entities and Felix not only heals his buddies but is also a good AP anti infantry hero

[@ipwndcancer]

Now THAT'S a grudgin'!

[@Erebus2075]

i want to see that built in action ^^ double arti yes ty

[@jordyvandersluijs4484]

full slayer rush would be cool

[@bruuuuuuuuhhhh]

However, against factions like Chorfs or Empire they would probably get torn to shreds

[@shaengar7440]

Yes

[@nickaretta1329]

Maybe. No bow units for the hard counter. They can shred the Bulls and dictate the terms of engagement for all Chorfs. Their entire performance would be determinate on something else shutting down Astragoth and the Magma Cannon... almost like there's a theme developing here with the CDs...

[@Sailinator2303]

Astragoth is so unbalanced. He has 5000 Mass, I think Nkari doesnt have that much more. and 60 speed though he is just a guy on robolegs. He is infantry size though he is double the size of any infantry unit, actually even more. He’s even bigger than wolfraiders. He has AP, though he has only a hammer. Strong magic and massive damage and melee stats. Missile resistance and passive buffs that make him even tankier. He also has 130 armor and costs nothing for that many abilities oh and he has almost as much hp as huge daemons of Chaos.

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

He needs a points nerd, and armor dropped to 90 to match the monster

[@Sailinator2303]

@@jtowensbyiii6018 yeah that would be a fair nerf

[@AlmeneBeranger]

That gives him more mass than Throgg. Which is ridiculous.

[@Sailinator2303]

@@AlmeneBeranger yes that’s just stupid. There’s no way to stop him, he’s a fucking mage, why does he have so much ws with ap mass speed spells hp. For like 1.800. he’s beating up all

[@mrbd-zk4jk]

Dawi needs those tanks,and those ballons

[@03Grunt-arrino]

I bet some Skaven snipers would do well against magma cannons.

[@eagleguy7]

THE GRUDGE HAS BEEN SATISFIED

[@ethnanboxman]

Hashut my beloved

[@xeldronx]

Imagine Miners with Blasting Charges on those Labourers.

[@baluranha]

I will never understand Chorfs flame cannons, they hit an unit right in the middle (which should be around 20% of the units) but they do 50% of that unit's health as damage...how does that work? Do they have some sort of damage link that says "this guy was killed so brutally that his pain will pass on to his comrades"?

[@liviuserenco1350]

They spawm a mini vortex :)

[@MarcoTheGreat2008]

This happens with other AOE units too, including bloated corpses.

[@SenseiLlama]

I was really hoping we could get extra maps with the dlc. But it seems like no additional MP battle maps came with it? (Nothing official I mean)

[@Insandom]

What about an Organ Gun? If the idea is if you go heavy cannons the CD will push with monsters/lord, then something like an Organ Gun to DPS these large targets you'll be slowing with smoke bombs would be good, wouldn't it?

[@freakymoejoe2]

I'd love it if the organ gun was the answer

[@maximum9977]

magma cannons will destroy its crew

[@MandaloreTheReclaimer]

Organ gun doesn't have the range, its too vulnerable.

[@Insandom]

@@MandaloreTheReclaimer The cannons handle the CD artillery, if you're at the point Magma's are having to duel your own Dwarf Cannons that's prime time to push with your infantry. The Organ Guns aren't there to artillery the CD, they're to cover the approach against anything the CD send to stop your cannons.

[@Zergling.]

@@Insandom Instead of the gyro you bring the organ gun then?

[@oldomen3788]

How do slayer rushes fair? With maybe some hammerers?

[@YM-zf8mt]

that was intense as fuck

[@bryangoh3080]

Question : What DO the Dwarves have to counter Infernal ironsworn or Infernal Guard with Firepikes? Hammerers and Giant Slayers can't even beat the Firepikes in melee, and dwarf warriors or longbeards with great weapons similarly don't have the melee attack to chew through those insane defensive stats. Two units of Thunderers will also lose, badly, to a single unit of Infernal Firepikes in a shootout. So far the only way to kill them without artillery has been trollhammer torpedos, but in melee, they're just insane.

[@FrejthKing]

Orc Slaves* Slave units* Goblin Slaves*

[@eumaies]

gg tricked me into thinking you would lose :)

[@grzegorzborecki7095]

Dwars on dwarfs! Love it

[@fallenprince7591]

Magma cannon just seems absurd, two pinpoint accurate shots from across the map and a unit of thunderers is down to 30% hp and routing before they can even get a shot off

[@rancho8537]

Can you run a build on dom as any race but you must make gotrek your lord and take Felix?

[@draculinalilith396]

Why dont more people bring chaos dwarf warriors to try and get the malign authority proc? it bothers me a bit, but I also dont know if it makes a huge difference. I can imagine a orc laborer could get more value that way.

[@KerrickS]

khazuk khazuk khazuk! The dawi-zharr have been defeated

[@bigmcjones230]

Kills me how greenskin lack an ORC ap unit that's not black orks. You gotta rely on goblins for cheap ap infantry wise yet we see slave orcs running around with clubs that have ap. Always was weird to me is all. Not saying the goblins are bad just really like me some orc units.

[@Shimmiy]

rangers are insanely good in this matchup

[@TheMoldyOne]

Should of gotten Chaos Dwarf Blunderbusses they can melt almost anything

[@SusaVile]

Turin, have you noticed that regular Fimir Warriors now have anti-large bonus? Seems quite an overlooked detail ^^ Definitely not intended, hehe

[@patricksheehan43]

I see people play dwarfs against chaos dwarfs and they always say how scary the chorf artillery is, yet they never bring the most obvious counter. Just bring gyrocopters. Literally the only things that can counter gyros are the large expensive monsters and a unit of gyros can just kyte it around, which is a lot of lost value to the enemy as that giant expensive monster isn’t doing anything. Idk I just feel like the dwarfs have way more tools than people realize.

[@turinRTS]

Gyros get shut down easily by Flying monsters, shotguns, or fireglaives, trust me!

[@Zergling.]

I understand what you saying but like Turin said, in a land battle they will probably have guns and in domination they can just summon them in, is hard to invest so much in gyros, one is enough to make the chaos dwarf player honest, if they counter it with some expensive monster or guns you can just use it to defend your cannons from bulls or astrogoth.

[@WPTheRabbitHole]

nice

[@treehugg3r86]

Please hammer the chaos dawi. Please give them hammer time. Please.

[@regulusm1518]

GG

[@praiseHashut]

4:19 SHORT?!?!

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

I get that the Chaos Dwarfs themselves are supposed to be more elite to complement their chaff units, but the silver shields are a bit much since the standard dwarfs don't have them. Also, giving the Chaos Dwarfs AP grenades in the same patch you nerfed the miner's blasting charges is annoyingly inconsistent.

[@sha_663]

I'll be back when the chaos dwarf phase is over :(

[@gustavomartins72]

Wait, how can somebody counter cannon disruption with engeneers??

[@Ultrevolous]

classic grandpa 🏃👴🦿

[@Wildboy789789]

i hope you go back to DUNE spice wars, and do a video on house corrino

[@worgenlord3424]

this was rather dawi vs orcs he had 3 chaos dwarf units in his whole army wth

[@jeremychollar]

that match was pretty ...short

[@eldunae922]

The dawi zharr aren't a grudge. Because grudges can be settled. There is no way of settling the Dawi-Zharr, except killing every last one of them, so making a grudge against them is counter productive

[@KhorgosKhul]

Hope the Dwarfs get Grimm Burlocksson (Range lord) Guild master Engineer lord(generic Grimm) Daemon Slayer lord(generic Ungrim) Dragon slayer hero Thunder barge Rune Guardians Ruin Golems

[@Srbin3317]

Dawi needs Goat riders for mobility

[@generaljashin8067]

Sir, this is Warhammer.

[@ggleplussuxx4787]

@@generaljashin8067 Heresy in LOTR canon too

[@dario2439]

Poor dwarfs, they desperately need a rework

[@ultimantninja375]

support the dawi

[@Ultrevolous]

Why no slayers? Feel like that could have solved a lot

[@boosterh1113]

What are you talking about? Turin had the Dragonback Slayers (which tried to save his Skyhammer) and two units of standard slayers (which killed the second Magma cannon, and Benny-Hilled the Ironsworn while taking back point III). He didn't go super-heavy into Slayers because they are a very reactive weapon in this matchup. The things you want them to fight (Taurus, Bull Centaurs, Khadai) are much more mobile that them, so the Slayers can't pick their targets. Conversely, the Chorfs have a multitude of excellent tools (Magma Cannons, any actual Chaos Dwarf unit) that can absolutely wreck Slayers if you just try to use them as general purpose infantry.

[@a0point0of0view1]

@@boosterh1113 I think Trevor was talking about for the section afterwards where Turin was theory crafting dwarf comps for fighting chaos dwaves

[@boosterh1113]

@@a0point0of0view1 Possibly, but my second paragraph still stands: Chaos Dwarves have way too many hard counters to Slayers to put them in your front (or even secondary) lines, and the speed differential between Slayers and anything you actually want them fighting means that your Slayers can't force an advantageous engagement. That pretty much relegates them to back line sweeper/anti-dive status at best.

[@Lukashoffmann94]

Why do people still bring Grombi? He is at least 200g overpriced, if you compare him to Archaeon.

[@brasswing2681]

He is by far the best dwarf lord, smoke bomb covers for major weakness of dwarfs

[@unnamedenemy9]

unbreakable, high damage, flash bomb

[@JuanOrtiz-hc1nn]

Short?!

[@Abolistable]

I didn't like any part of this expansion. Any thoughts on what the next DLC factions may be?

[@GrandMarshalGarithos]

Still doing Blood Bowl?

[@turinRTS]

Yes once they add admin features

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

I find magma cannons are kinda overrated. Sure they are accurate, but only 1 piece. And they still miss now and then as well, which puts their average damage kinda into mediocre territory + rather easy to take out as we have seen

[@handleonafridge6828]

Last time I was this early I said “last time I was this early I said ‘last time I was this early I was this early’l

[@lopezlirio4004]

chaos dwarfs are to expensive, chaos dwarfs warriors need to have the same cost as dwarfs warriors, is not equal have dwarfs vs labourers 😅

[@pufpuff76]

first

[@richardsylvester4518]

I've got to say I'm just not enjoying this DLC at all. They are by far the worst offender for bieg overpowered with the majority of the roster being overpowered they are no fun to fight and no fun to fight with. Single or multiplayer.

[@stephenjenkins7971]

They snowball hard, but suck early game. Can barely field decent units, let alone any top tiers.