Can this possibly work?!? FSR 3 Frame Gen and AFMF stacking tested!

[@danielowentech]

I'm curious if any of you have tried using both at the same time, and how you felt about the results? Especially on monitors with an even higher refresh rate so you could start from a higher base without going past the monitor's limit. Link to preview driver (requires RX 7000 GPU): www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-23-30-afmf-tech-preview Links to more info about FSR3: gpuopen.com/fsr3-in-games-technical-details/ community.amd.com/t5/gaming/amd-fsr-3-now-available/ba-p/634265

[@samza9622]

I was telling you in comments on another vid to do both these methods others were doing it

[@vextakes]

yeah, its surprisingly not terrible

[@timestamppatrol]

05:50 bruh u can just edit it and zoom in using Adobe Premiere or any other editing programs; it's easy. I can do it voluntarily. Or do u not really have much time because u have a full-time job as a teacher?

[@thedivide9559]

Do you think Nvidia is developing software that would help users render videos at a higher framerate while the program consumes bandwidth to generate frames? I think this would be the most useful place where AI generated FPS will be very strong at.

[@Blazko381]

Please check games with disabled vsync in game but enabled enhanced sync(AMD control panel driver) or Fast Sync(Nvidia Control Panel).

[@marcelosoares7148]

Now try:FSR Upscaling + Frame Gen + AFMF + Radeon Boost for 16 times the frames!

[@GewelReal]

1/16 times the details!

[@eyescreamsandwitch52]

*Todd Howard awakens from his slumber*

[@P1Volvo850R]

Plus RTX frame generation :)

[@grimsaladbarvods8586]

@@eyescreamsandwitch52 how dare you speak about god Howard like that.(this is a joke) although i am enjoying starfield

[@danielowentech]

Only if I can enable the TV's built in interpolation as well.

[@CC-bz3uo]

*50 years later* Wow this game runs so well I'm getting 2000 fps using FSR69 with a whopping 3 minutes of input latency

[@kameronsmith5854]

😂😂😂

[@JackJohnson-br4qr]

Homeopathy in its purest form. Dilute the substance. Then dilute it again and again and again... Until you get the purest gaming experience.

[@guotyr2502]

Upscaled to 124k from a 120p resolution

[@existensistrubczthentruscatt]

That's a recording, not rendering anymore😂

[@Jackson-bh1jw]

Half the video with "native AA" activated (that everyone said doenst add up smoothness on all vids) repeating its terrible trough the whole vid, and repeating the work documentation too.... yeah dont comment about that native AA activate till min 10 of course, and dont comment how it lags anyways and center on the mess, man this guy tryhards the flame too much. and 4k 25 fps that ofc is already said it laggs everything and vsync bugged, this guy knows how to troll hard.

[@peternash7104]

Man I can't wait till 4k video games becomes a pixilated upscale of 480p and 200ms delay to get 60 fps...instead of devs just optimizing their games.

[@lh3544]

Literally my thoughts on a comment

[@juanblanco7898]

Mfw PS5 Pro/Xbox Series XXX come out advertising HFR and this is how they achieve that. There's nothing like 720p upscaled to 4K with 2/3 of the frames being interpolated, multiple real-time color space and tone curve/EETF conversions (hello, Sony) and the resulting latency surpassing 100 ms. The future of gaming! 🤩

[@Tcatracing]

​@@juanblanco7898it's all up to the software

[@SinjiKazama]

Apt hyperbole is always funny to me 😂

[@panjak323]

But higher fps ! It's much more important than having normal latency.

[@deejay3473]

thank you for your passion and your hard work, Appreciate all the new videos you make about FSR 3

[@FSAPOJake]

Yeah, they're definitely not designed to be turned on at the same time, but it's kinda fun to experiment with regardless.

[@Jackson-bh1jw]

Half the video with "native AA" activated (that everyone said doenst add up smoothness on all vids) repeating its terrible trough the whole vid, and repeating the work documentation too.... yeah dont comment about that native AA activate till min 10 of course, and dont comment how it lags anyways and center on the mess, man this guy tryhards the flame too much. and 4k 25 fps that ofc is already said it laggs everything and vsync bugged, this guy knows how to troll hard.

[@MLWJ1993]

I wasn't even sure it would work to begin with.

[@getermoura]

That's like applying disk compaction on floppy disks many times on windows 95/98 back in the days

[@Phaevryn]

That just gave me flashbacks. They're not good flashbacks :P

[@c99kfm]

Hmm. DoubleSpace and similar should actually be quite good by now. The primary problem, back when, was how CPU (and RAM) limits made compression and decompression infinitely slow. On many modern systems, especially those with a S-ATA SSD, the primary bottleneck is the buswidth and drive speed, not the system (CPU + RAM) itself. Compressing data to be stored would actually make it faster to store and retrieve information, and the compression/decompression overhead would probably be undetectable on a modern computer. Doing it multiple times would, of course, still be redundant and potentially (depending on implementation) broken.

[@Jackson-bh1jw]

Half the video with "native AA" activated (that everyone said doenst add up smoothness on all vids) repeating its terrible trough the whole vid, and repeating the work documentation too.... yeah dont comment about that native AA activate till min 10 of course, and dont comment how it lags anyways and center on the mess, man this guy tryhards the flame too much. and 4k 25 fps that ofc is already said it laggs everything.

[@amoron2162]

Can’t wait till modders enable everything together so we can get dlss upscaling + fsr upscaling + rsr upscaling + fsr frame gen + dlss frame gen + fluid motion frames

[@TheGreatTave]

& knuckles

[@ДарийФедореев-э7т]

​@@TheGreatTavefeaturing dante from devil may cry series

[@paulustrucenus]

​@@ДарийФедореев-э7тnew funky kong mode

[@HunterTracks]

Ah yes, time to interpolate some Sega Genesis games to 4k 360 FPS.

[@jctherula]

@@TheGreatTave😭

[@huggysocks]

Just a note some steps are being missed here, for these drivers you are supposed to go into the amd games menu to open the game and it will allow you to toggle hyper rx and that sets the game correctly. From there you set the in game settings to fsr3 quality and turn on frame gen while turning off vsync. Also unfortunately hdr has to be deactivated in windows. I know its a lot of steps but it makes it run much cleaner. Also note all games must be run in fullscreen to activate fluid motion.

[@Ray-dl5mp]

Ha that’s so cool they both worked together. I was thinking watching the start of the video if he gets that frame number up to 100 people are going to freak out. Too bad it has major drawbacks being used together. But we all knew it was too good to be true.

[@Zoltan74]

6:34 If 27 frames are the original, and in the end we get 87, because the rest are only artificially generated, then we actually only have an effect on 27 frames, the rest are just added cinema. Any number of generated frames could be added, so that it could be, say, 200fps or more. This technology only uses an illusion, unfortunately it does not render real frames! That's why I don't use the generated frame function, even though I could, but I don't!

[@lafalamirr10dede81]

After 4 beers my fps is quadrupled

[@edwarda.tokash8166]

4 beers will also automatically enable motion blur. 😂

[@KryptoKn8]

Amd recommends a base framerate of 70 for 1440p and above for AFMF to work as intended so i'm not surprised you're getting alot of screen tearing here. When you get your base framerate higher, such as through enabling upscaling and maybe lowering one or two light/shadow related settings and then turn on in-game FG, setting you just neatly over 70fps, then the AFMF will work like a charm. It's a monster of a software thats for sure. It's not a fix-it-all obviously, but i can most certainly play titles at native 4K with 180+ FPS now thabks to it which is genuinely insane (tbf i have a 7900XT but my point still stands

[@GoonyMclinux]

True, I was messing with a 7900xtx all hopped up on water today and made it do some neat stuff and it actually looked really good, horsepower is definitely the key to this software.

[@mechanicalmonk2020]

Screen tearing shouldn't be connected to that though.

[@JunioJsv]

Could it be that running at 720p with a low fps is the input lag less?

[@GIGeorge23]

It would be interesting to see AFMF on games that were originally capped to 30/60 fps like older console games on emulators. As the games aren't particularly demanding I would think it wouldn't effect the base framerate all that much.

[@NeovanGoth]

I did that for years to transform the 30 fps most games on my PS4 Pro ran with into extremely smooth 120 fps with reduced motion blur using my TV's frame interpolation features (Philips calls it "Perfect Natural Motion" and "Perfect Clear Motion"). Wasn't perfect by any means (latency, artifacts), but in almost all cases _so much better_ than the original 30 fps.

[@PanchoGDMKWii]

​@@NeovanGoththat's not frame interpolation btw, it is usually called Black frame insertion (OLED screens) or Backlight strobing (Non OLED screens) which briefly consists in adding a blackframe between the real frames showed on the tv, increasing perceived FPS That's a old and amazing feature, but it is slowly dissapearing on monitors

[@NeovanGoth]

@@PanchoGDMKWii No, black frame insertion is called "Fast Motion Clarity" on Philips TVs. What they call "Perfect Natural Motion" is actual frame interpolation (which improves fluidity), while "Perfect Clear Motion" adapts the amount of motion blur in the content to the shutter speed a real high frame rate video would have. Also black frame insertion isn't meant to increase the perceived FPS, but to counter a type of motion blur that occurs on permanently lit (so-called "sample-and-hold") displays like LCDs and OLEDs. It's basically like a strobe-light effect that prevents the brain from perceiving what could be called an afterglow from previous frames, hence improving clarity at the expense of fluidity. Film projectors and CRTs had this effect out-of-the-box due to how they worked, and I guess this is why many people prefer it over the more stable image sample-and-hold displays provide by default.

[@MobileDecay]

You can raise the size of the text in video editing by using a second video track, cropping the same video on the second track, and raising the size to the desired size.

[@farazalikhan5242]

Thnx for clearing out so many doubts, and we can see the fps on top right corner of the monitor

[@Harctwo]

was not expecting this to work at all, even though its a bad experience its pretty cool that it 'works' at all lol

[@Nekonaut_aka_Jebus]

In the AMD overlay, if you turn off the visual graphs and adjust the size %, the text will scale appropriately. Just a heads up on that, i use the overlay as well on my machine.

[@randomguydoes2901]

increasing text element scaling in windows display settings has a good chance of helping out with the overlay font

[@HanSolo__]

Brutally underrated channel.

[@MythicMoto]

Mr. Owen.... Your teacher is showing 😂😜❤ Keep up the great work! Love the way you are able to dissect the technical info given in the description of the tech. Then, take things a step further and wrap it around like you're in your classroom. It's such a fantastic thing for us tech nerds needing deeper dives.

[@ciarancummins7]

you should probably be testing at 1440p or 1080p to start with a high base FPS, which will handle FG and AFMF better.

[@detcader_]

True but he was testing the limits of visual quality not pure performance Frame generation is a very weird feature right now because the cons means no one will enable it. High input lag means competitive gamers will never enable it Visual artefacts and generally choppy experience means casual gamers probably won’t enable it It’s one of those features that’s cool but doesn’t seem to lead anywhere, while the ai upscaling is amazing for everyone. DLSS is almost magical with the occasional artefacts

[@B_Machine]

Ive been using lossless scaling with helldiver's 2 to do 60->180fps. It's fantastic. Highly recommended.

[@gaurd3]

It’s wild that this is the games it chose to showcase the tech on

[@TheShitpostExperience]

AMD can't see the future, probably the pitch was interesting, as this was the first 3rd party title announced using UE5, and AMD thought it would a good fit for FSR3. The same way that Nvidia didn't really know what CP77 2.0 was going to be, yet they chose to use that as the test lab for path tracing.

[@gaurd3]

@@TheShitpostExperience that’s an corp slanted take. Unless they are AMD titles I say it highly unlikely. Following your line of thinking what better title that ran like shit that is an AMD sponsored title? That’s right Jedi survivor would have been an home run..

[@TheShitpostExperience]

​@@gaurd3 Is this really all you took from that comment? Talk about hating for the sake of hating...

[@jannegrey]

It shouldn't work, but I'll watch it. OK. Watched it. I'm impressed that Interpolating interpolated frames didn't bug out and that while far from perfect, the image didn't look completely wrong. But I certainly wouldn't use it. Maybe on 500 Hz monitor, if I had base FPS of 150 and FG+AFMF went down to 125x4 and gave it 500 FPS.... because at that speed it would have decent latency. But imagining the burden on GPU makes my head hurt ;)

[@Adrian-is6qn]

Wouldn't make sense even then, those kind of monitors are only used for competitive multiplayer games like cs go and visual artefacts/ghosting etc are unacceptable for such ppl.

[@jannegrey]

@@Adrian-is6qn agreed

[@Tatoebot]

How many more fsr3 videos we gonna get 😂 appreciate your hard work none the less

[@limemason]

This is one of those things that has no applicable use case yet, but is just cool that it works. By the time people actually would *need* to use this feature if they still had the card in the future, the tech might be substantially more usable.

[@aaronscottmatthews7883]

Lol loving the vibe of this channel this kind of experimentation is fun to watch

[@Millsy2024]

thank you for all your videos Owen

[@krisshietala2119]

All the games I've tested with driver level fluid motion worked great and it was really rare for it to disable the fluid motion in movement. But I was also using gamepad. Seems like in the current state it's best tailored for gamepad users.

[@olivierwolphjoseph2329]

I love your channel you’re doing things that Amd didn’t even know about

[@12coco100]

Was literally wishing you'd done a video about this.

[@korosaki13]

I already use a similar trick to play game that have FSR include, you can couple it with radeon super resolution (RSR) in AMD software. RSR ask you to lower your fullscreen resolution in game then upscale it, next, you enable FSR in game. The result is a fuzzy but way softer than using only FSR in performance mode and just run better.

[@Krenisphia]

I'm glad I don't have to worry about any of this upscaling/interpolation stuff.

[@BaKa60gaming]

btw idk if you have talked about it in older video but with AFMF you can go bypass fps cap in some game that lock the fps

[@TheSh466Y]

The thumbnail is just glorious!

[@IrishShea]

Good video, a fun experiment to watch, I'm a 6800 XT user so I cannot get stuck in and test it out myself, a pity.

[@2284090]

Its out now for 6000 series fo try it

[@happybuggy1582]

2 times 2 is 4, minus 1 equals 3 quick maffs

[@jamosefica]

wow that's an insane idea

[@christophermullins7163]

I would think that fsr 3 would get an update that allows for more and less interpolated frames. For something like path tracing using a controllor and 240hz display.. having 2 added frames between each real frame would give a benefit to some players. I dont think anyone expected the stacking have a good result. I love these experimental video that show the particulars of these technologies. Great work Teach!

[@MLWJ1993]

I'm not even sure how that would look like on paper. Would it interpolate 2 frames based on the 2 real frames or would it interpolate 1 frame between 2 real frames & then interpolate 1 frame between the interpolated & real frame? If it does option 1 how does it calculate what ends up where (given it shouldn't be in the middle). If it does option 2 how would you prevent it from just looking like massive judder because objects jump different amounts of distance from one frame to the next. If they ever do end up providing the option I hope there's documentation on what it's even doing cause I'd just need to know! 😂

[@christophermullins7163]

Same. I imagine if you use the 2 real frames that have the data that a particular object moved 9pixels then youd make the next fake frames be 3 pixels then 3pixels then a new real frame. I believe it could be easily changed to 2x 3x 4x etc but of course it may get increasingly garbled or perhaps give the effect of overly fluid motion like the "240hz" interpolated TV's do. Those things make 30hz somehow produce 240hz and it looks fake-smooth. Like smoother than real life or Something

[@MrSeb-S]

First days everybody hype! Finally some real testing.

[@snowpuddle9622]

sitting that close to a TV gives you glasses

[@franciscomanuel7377]

And you're god, thaanks! You didn't realize maybe but FS3 implemented in the game reduced from 24, 17% to 11% CPU use, this is pretty important to very old CPUs as mine because it means it would drastically help me. Specially when maybe your 20% means my 100% CPU.

[@MarsMarsTitan]

From what I understand, for nvidia cards you need to permanently activate vsync from the control panel and also the low latency mode from the nvidia control panel... this leads to improvements in 120fps also with regards to lag as well as the fluidity of the image

[@eliceomartinezmejias867]

The lag doesn’t improve, at least in a noticeable way when turning Ultra low latency mode…. It is not an optimal experience in Nvidia’s gpu YET.

[@leanlifter1]

Using adaptive sync industry open standard mitigates all the issues you speak of without being locked down to the limitations of proprietary vendor agnostic gimmicks.

[@MarsMarsTitan]

@@leanlifter1 it doesn't mitigate anything.. it just works like that

[@leanlifter1]

@@MarsMarsTitan Industry wide open standards like Adaptive sync and HDR are the best tech because they just work without any of the down sides of proprietary software injection/huge driver update files that bog down the entire system. Plus Nvidia have not updated their control panel since 2003 and it's still a buggy mess and difficult to navigate for over 20 years.

[@7421856101a]

Why is this the best gaming hardware channel???

[@reezlaw]

Very good content and I like how thorough you are, if I may add a small critique you tend to repeat yourself quite a bit

[@fernandochapa1433]

Nothing like 100fps that feel like 10fps, pretty cool idea tho

[@Jackson-bh1jw]

Half the video with "native AA" activated (that everyone said doenst add up smoothness on all vids) repeating its terrible trough the whole vid, and repeating the work documentation too.... yeah dont comment about that native AA activate till min 10 of course, and dont comment how it lags anyways and center on the mess, man this guy tryhards the flame too much. and 4k 25 fps that ofc is already said it laggs everything and vsync bugged, this guy knows how to troll hard.

[@branchprediction9923]

I tested forspoken on a 4090 with native aa and fsr 3. I got really good results, im very impressed. Whats wronf with selectinf native aa?

[@-Burb]

@@branchprediction9923 FSR3 doesn’t apply if you have native AA selected, at least in forspoken(haven’t tried immortals of aveum). You have to choose an FSR upscaling mode of quality or lower and also enable vsync for it to work.

[@branchprediction9923]

@@-Burb It does work bro. I tested yesterday and just now aswell. In my experience, fsr 3 works best with an fps limit, vrr and vsync tunred off. The frame pacing is nearly perfect! The artifacting is very well controlled and the latency is very acceptable for story mode/non competitive gaming.

[@branchprediction9923]

But i think like Jackson said FG might be too heavy when generating a full native res frame. Tho for me it worked on a 4090 and 3440x1440 resolution.

[@nunofilipe8872]

Digital Foundry seems to be lowkey snubbing FSR 3 potential thus thank you for making these great videos!

[@CrashBashL]

Digital Foundry is Nvidia's Marketing KZbin Channel.

[@Tcatracing]

I'm sure DF will release a video when it's ready.

[@Tcatracing]

@@CrashBashL DF has released their findings and proved the frame time issues basically all users are seeing in MSI afterburner are not a logging bug but an actual issue with FSR FG

[@CrashBashL]

@@Tcatracing And what about it?! In general DF is an Nvidia dick riding team. Alex is stressing people enough by saying that the RTX 4090 is a good value. Excuse me ?!

[@DarkMagicianMan20]

This is my base frames rate, not so good huh? Now this... this is FSR3. So what, you increases your frames rate, still not 60 yet. You going to love this, trust me And this, this is what is know as Fluid Motion ascended past FSR3 frames rate. AND THIS... IS TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND. No stop it, you will surpass the monitor refresh rate!!! It unreal, how can he generated so much frames. And this is AFMF at driver level. Sorry it took so much time. I didn't know it was possible before.

[@MLWJ1993]

I don't even care about the outcome, thanks for this experiment. For science! 👏🏻

[@VALxTarnishedGamer]

well, yesterday i did a RE4R Separate Ways run with AFMF enabled, FSR 2 Quality enabled and vsync on, with the game running at 4k resolution... all that on a rx7900xtx and 4k/240hz monitor.. i also had Radeon Enhanced Sync on... my average FPS for that experience was 267.1 .... it was an amazing experience.... the whole game looked and played way better then i expected it to... i really like this AFMF feature, and i can't wait to get the final product

[@Afthrast]

This video came to my mind after the 50 series announcement 😁

[@gail_blue]

Eventually FG will generate sframe in sync with your monitor. So for a 500hz monitor, it will generate 4 frames on a base rate of 100fps.

[@Darkswordz]

Daniel...What if you use RivaTuner to hard cap your fps to 120 all the time? Would that eliminate the weird pacing you feel when at 150+ generated fps?

[@bartbroekhuizen5617]

I wanted to ask the same question, i think the tearing wil still be there though because GPU and monitor are out of sync due to VRR disabled. RivaTuner only throws away the additional frames. Im curious though if Radeon Chill can do the same.

[@sooubic]

The school year’s back on and Daniel is more productive than he was in the summer.

[@glenwaldrop8166]

I think you need to get your GPU load lower before FSR 3.0 is going to have latency that you're happy with. You'll need some kind of frame limit. Playing with Forspoken, input latency is *lower* with FSR 3.0 FG enabled than DLSS 2.0 or native rendering if the GPU load was in the low 90% when I started, FG drops the GPU load to ~65% and drops the CPU load from ~40% to ~20% and input latency dramatically improves. You can't do this if the GPU is constantly pegged at 100%.

[@Tcatracing]

That doesn't make a lot of sense that gpu usage would be lower, there is more gpu work with FG on

[@glenwaldrop8166]

@@Tcatracing Frame generation uses less resources than rendering. If you set a frame limit anywhere then the FG bumps that limit, it limits the max frame rate but it also lowers the system load dramatically. On Forspoken it's worth cutting the CPU load in half vs using DLSS 2, which also helps with input latency. It is literally like playing a last gen game.

[@HACKTECHMX]

The problem is the source frames, in this case because the game has a Frame generation implementation is better to use that or disabled and use at driver level, the motion will never be soft because of the original source frames, Looks Amd's tech is very dependent on that

[@unitybeing777]

You rock the boat, you rocker.

[@splashmaker2]

I really hope focus remains on frame gen, because there is so much more potential if you can run the game’s simulation faster than the frame rate and gen extra frames based on the latest simulation iteration.

[@mi-rek]

Crazy idea to stack two frame generation systems :) Frame generation doesn't have to be double, GPU can create 10 frames between 2, it just needs to be coded and implemented. The base framerate has to be high, it will be useful to go for example from 120 to 480 fps, above CPU bottleneck. The the extra lag will be small (or even zero, with predicting a frame tiny bit in future), also the 2 "real" frames will differ less with high base framerate.

[@rubandanmusic]

Trading one problem for another. Framerate is determined by how fast the GPU can render each frame. If it was computationally free to generate filler frames, we would be doing it a lot more. The main problem they are solving is: How do you generate filler frames in a resource light way that doesn't introduce artifacts.

[@leanlifter1]

Fake frames are not better than the real thing when running as you said already in highrefreshrate. Why break a perfect outcome for something a leased a little but up to and including allot worse.

[@rocksfire4390]

it's crazy that it even works at all. the quality might not be that good but that's meh, people messing around with this kind of stuff do not really care about quality as much as you make it seem. i think i see a bug, between a set of two frames should be 3 extra frames, not 2. motion frames should be generating between last frame and generated frame, and between generated frame and next frame. i would expect the fps to be ~130, not 100. however it looks like motion frames are either at the start or the end. so last frame > generated frame > motion frame > next frame or last frame > motion frame > generated frame > next frame. it's also entirely possible that the motion frame is just a double of the generated frame. while there are indeed MORE frames, they might actually be the SAME frame! i would record using a capture card and then go into editing software and star at the frames and see if they are actually different or the same frame.

[@huggysocks]

One of the cool new features of the test amd drivers is it adds the ability to encode av1 at 120hrz, may not help yet as I doubt youtube let's you display at 120.

[@Hybred]

Since I'm the one who found tiis I will say this is almost useless on displays under 240hz, for multiple reasons; your framerate will probably be around that high with both on and secondly due to both latency & image quality penalties you need a high intial framerate. I also recommend doing it on games that support AL+ which I think most FSR 3 games will. People that have done it with a base framerate of at least 90 said it felt fine, lower could potential feel fine if you're not latency sensitive, or higher if you are very sensitive, this is too subjective to quantify but this is a good start.

[@laszlozsurka8991]

FSR 3 FG + DLSS 2 would be a wet dream.

[@Gindi4711]

As far as I understand it FSR3 is designed for vsync without freesync. They know the refresh rate of the monitor (for example 120Hz) and then try to time the interpolated frames so they are generated every time a frame is sent to the screen. Now if you enable FMF in the driver at the same time the FSR3 implementation is thinking your refresh rate is 120fps, but in reality it is 60fps because every frame is doubled so I am not really suprised there are timing issues. I know we already had a lot of FSR3 videos, but I would be curious how it compares on vs. off on displays that do not have vrr support. Maybe you do not need vrr any more because fsr3 already compensates for that.

[@-Burb]

Yeah in forspoken I noticed that FSR3 did nothing until vsync was turned on. Even then though it didn’t feel like I was getting the refresh rate it said I was. It said I was going from about 55fps up to 100+, but if I had to guess blindly I’d guess it looked like about a 20fps improvement, or about 75fps total. Hopefully it can get better, but I’m not super impressed so far especially when compared to DLSS3, which can also use freesync without vsync. I do enjoy these testing videos though, I’m hoping that AMD ends up winning the frame gen race overall.

[@theashenone9703]

Basically we have to wait for that technology to develop and currently FSR 3.0 without FG seems to be the best option(imo), at least in this game - it almost doubled the frames without destroying the frametime and giving wierd issues, it only gives some lil artifacts known to us before from older FSR and DLSS versions. Choppy 140 frames per second aren't worth it when You can have smooth 60 frames native/FSR quality. Still, it's impresive technology

[@branchprediction9923]

The frametime graph going wild is a side affect of having vsync on, but this is just how the frametime is measured. The frames dont actually get sent to the monitor in this fashion. They get sent to the monitor like how vsync does it normally. Fsr 3 without vsync performed better latency wise in my testing. Im fact fsr 3 performed very well.

[@ristopoho824]

For VR games, in pico and quest. There is also a frame interpolation. Since it happens on a separate device, it means it's almost exactly double the framerate. And yep it works with whatever the rate was before the transfer. Can't imagine using all these together though, the base rate would need to be so very low for it to matter. And then, well don't VR in low framerate/latency unless you really don't get motion sick from anything. But it should work.

[@TheShitpostExperience]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, input delay in VR sounds terrible to me...

[@sowa705]

​@@TheShitpostExperience VR headsets dont do game frame interpolation but reprojection based on gyroscope and accelerometer data. They dont have to wait for the next frame calculate their reprojected frame

[@johnsouthern6089]

Oh, this should be a fast run into weird issues

[@marchev1982]

people talk bad about DLSS when it cames out, but look where it is now.Lets all give some time and let it develope, im sure in some time this tech is going to be awesome .

[@Rinzler1983]

no floating Danial this time, only his floating hands...i dig it

[@stopspewinshit7878]

Just started using this yesterday … not a big gamer but a bit of a fs2020 nut. It DRAMATICALLY changed the feel. Almost ZERO stutter smooth , even in heavy scenery. Low heat solid frames !

[@mondzi]

Interesting, although you "slapped this two things together", it raises question that if it'd be properly implemented in FSR3, we could have something like "2x, 4x, 8x,..." frame generation setting in the future.

[@vlcglavni6608]

Oh the win scaling 4K woes. Have a lot of troubles on a pair of 27" 4Ks at work. To enlarge the fonts in the overlay, you have to set custom Windows scaling properties on the Radeon Control Panel Launcher executable. Right click on the executable -> Compatibility -> Change high DPI settings -> HIGH DPI scaling override ticked. Then shut down the Radeon control panel app, and start it again through the executable you just set those properties on.

[@RFC3514]

The main problem with all these frame interpolation algorithms is they only work well when your frame rate is high enough to not need them in the first place. Also, gamers who want stupidly high frame rates generally want them so they can react faster, but interpolation actually _increases_ latency, so I suspect this fad won't last long. The really useful part of DLSS / FSR is the smart resampler (upscaler), that basically operates in 2D and can be much more optimised. Frame interpolation in 3D games can handle camera pans reasonably well, but any actual 3D motion (i.e., moving the camera, not just rotating it) is always going to run into problems with objects that are fully or partially covered in one of the source frames. To do it properly, it would need access to the source 3D data that isn't in the rendered image, but obviously if the card could process the 3D data faster, you'd get a higher (real, rendered) frame rate to begin with.

[@7thcode320]

Higher fps(60+) makes the game look smoother. They specifically said that you need to have 55fps as a base to have a smooth experience and I think that's the whole point of this "fad" you're talking about and not about having more frames to react faster.

[@RFC3514]

@@7thcode320 - There's nothing magical about 60 (or 55, for that matter), especially with variable sync screens. In games with faster motion you notice a bigger difference, in games with slower motion you notice it less. There's no universal value that applies to all games. What's universal is that, the higher your base FPS, the better the interpolation works and the less likely it is that it will turn itself off during fast motion.(which is _precisely_ when people notice a "lack of smoothness" - not when they're moving or turning slowly). But the higher your base frame rate is, the less need you have for interpolation in the first place. So, interpolation works best when you don't need it and it's most likely to turn itself off (to avoid artefacts) precisely when you need it the most. And, unlike resampling (whose lag can be brought down to nearly zero, with enough post-processing power), interpolation always introduces at least one frame's worth of lag, because the system needs to wait for the _next_ frame to be rendered to know what it's going to interpolate _to,_ whereas with interpolation turned off it can show you the frames as they're rendered. It's mainly a way for manufacturers to quote a (nearly) 100% frame rate increase (in fact, they could pretend it's even higher by adding two or three interpolated frames between each real frame and the next) without offering a significantly improved experience when it matters (i.e., when you have a low frame rate to being with, or when you do fast moves and pans and notice a lack of smoothness). We have a generation of overpriced cards that try to fake their own frame rates "in post". Hooray. 🙄

[@hastesoldat]

> The main problem with all these frame interpolation algorithms is they only work well when your frame rate is high enough to not need them in the first place. That's only a temporary issue. Hopefully soon enough 240Hz, 360Hz, 480Hz, 500Hz, 1000Hz, ... becomes mainstream in pc gaming.

[@RFC3514]

@@hastesoldat - Are you being sarcastic? You think you can notice the difference between 120 and 240 Hz in most games? Most people barely notice the difference between 60 and 120 (and the main benefit there is reduced latency (i.e., you see things slightly earlier), which interpolation makes _worse._

[@hastesoldat]

@@RFC3514 The main benefit is clearer motion. And it's not a subtle difference. Sometimes when I hear people like you I'm wondering if you live in alternate reality. Because the difference is so obvious to me, I notice it in less than a second when I move my mouse.

[@Naifupac]

You should look at individual frames to see if there are changes or if we have duplicates.

[@OneAngrehCat]

Important to know : when the driver code for AFMF was added to Linux, a flag was added about the number of interpolated frames. That means that while gen 1 FSR3/AFMF may seem to stop at 1 generated frame for one frame, it may become 2,3, even 4 in the future. This tech is big...

[@NeovanGoth]

Not surprising though, TVs already did this for years. I had a Philips OLED TV from 2018 that - depending on the motion settings - "upscaled" 30 fps input to 60 or 120 fps by inserting a different amount of generated frames. It even had a second setting to adapt the amount of motion blur to the shortened virtual shutter speed. I always wondered why such features weren't implemented into GPUs (until Nvidia announced DLSS 3).

[@-Burb]

Someone found the same thing hidden in DLSS3, it’s interesting that neither AMD nor Nvidia is giving people the option to change the values in games though. I wonder if maybe more than 1 frame being generated takes longer to render than the time between the real frames? That could cause a lot more input lag and make the game feel worse. Image quality would get even worse too when interpolating between “fake” frames.

[@cookie_of_nine]

Here's an interesting experiment, it may do nothing, but still. Whenever I've had 2 graphics cards in one system, whether that be onboard Intel-iGPU + nVidia GTX 1080 under windows, or 2 AMD GPUs in one machine (RX 590 + RX 6650 XT) under Linux, I've gotten the option to plug my monitor/TV into either "card's" output, yet could choose to run apps on the other card but still display on my screen. Occasionally this would have a slight latency penalty, more so if both "cards" were in use, but otherwise it worked. So this had me wondering, if you had a 7000 series AMD GPU connected to the display, but had a 40-series RTX card actually rendering the game, could you DLSS 3 Framegen + AFMF? If it worked that would likely be closer to 2x2=4 since the performance inneficiency of DLSS3 framegen is probably better since it's using independent AI cores and a separate motion processing core for DLSS3+FG, not the Async compute, and the 7000 series card would be idle so it's compute would be fully available for fluid motion frames. This might not work if the AMD Driver-level features don't kick in if it's not actually rendering the game, and only presenting the result to the monitor, but if it did, reflex may still be possible as you are not using FSR3. Also this setup using a RTX 20/30 series card would let you use plain DLSS upscaling with AFMF instead of FSR3. Obviously most people would never do this: have both a RTX and AMD 7000 card in the same machine, and leave one mostly idle... but it would be fun if it worked.

[@paganmoon]

Now you can test it compared to the TVs built in frame interpolation :D

[@michaelfalabella6296]

ive been trying to talk about this. so, AFMF is compatible with freesync while FG is only compatible with vsync. if youre overriding one or the other it could be why it doesnt feel so smooth. personally i'd say play around with it more to understand it but it was nice you braught the idea out there fast so others can try it out and get it working smooth for themselves. the actual fix for this would probably be RTSS. mixed with vsync. tbh.

[@branchprediction9923]

Fsr 3 fg is compatible with vsynch and without vsync, in fact it has a few different modes of pacing and presentinf frames, giving the devs the choice. Fsr 3 is very, very impressive (i tested it in forspoken).

[@michaelfalabella6296]

@@branchprediction9923 oh i'm not bashing it whatsoever. im just upset that he didnt use other methods to show people how to make it work properly. please add more haha :D

[@michaelfalabella6296]

@@branchprediction9923 i think its one of the most impressive things ive ever seen. and so do a few friends i have who are in IT and dont even game.

[@gameurai5701]

I tried nVidias version via Geforce Ultimate on Hitman and I was skeptical back then because it didn't make the gameplay any smoother. As a 7900xt user, I doubt I'll even bother with this feature either. Both nVidia and AMD claim it's geared towards high fps usage, but who in the world would ever trade responsiveness for fps in an e-sport for example lol, especially if they already have high framerates to begin with. Pragmatically speaking, frame-gen to me appears to be made exclusively for interactive movie type games such as Until Dawn, Man of Medan, Little Hope, Tales from the Borderlands etc. Any other use-case scenario is just not viable for improving your experience.

[@farmeunit]

For me it would be to make RT games smoother. For example, I get 60 FPS in Cyberpunk with RT, but used to playing at 100+. To me, it’s a noticeable difference. It isn’t designed for esports because of latency, not to mention, they don’t even need it.

[@HunterTracks]

Third person action games and racing games seem to work pretty well with it. Not all games require fast motion, where you'd need the lowest latency you could get for everything to work properly. Also, some people (like me) are just less latency sensitive and don't mind a few extra ms delay for a smoother image.

[@gameurai5701]

@@HunterTracks What kind of racing games? If we're talking about games such as ACC, AMS2, rfactor2, iRacing etc, it's a big nono. Keep in mind that those games are all far more demanding than non-sim esports, ACC for instance is really demanding, especially in VR. But even so, it's not viable. Entering a corner 0.025s to late, exiting too slow by the same amount can cost you as much as 0.15 s in just a single corner. Even if it's just 0.02 s loss per corner you get per corner because of latency, that still adds up to 200ms overall, which is enormous if you think about it in a 1 hour race scenario, you're giving up an immense amount of time for no reason. This will also obviously apply to sim-cades too aka Gran Tourismo (not relevant since it's not on PC) or the F1 games.

[@gameurai5701]

@@max_csdloradon6889 That's exactly what I said. So what do you do with it? Play AAA games with choppy-mode deluxe? I mentioned that it didn't do shit in Hitman either. Tell me the target audience of games aside from interactive movies where Frame Gen (AMD or nVidia) is useful. Hey, I use frame-interpolation too, I have SVPPro to get the sweet 165fps....in movies. With games, where motion comes into play, you face the realization that because of the algo, you're putting an extra strain on the hardware, thus reducing the fps (which also increases latency), then double it, creating a smooth visual experience while having an even laggier experience than before. Daniel came to that very same conclusion in this vid, so I'm not sure why you're being so snarky towards me.

[@tuckalicious1]

This was prior to 6.0 update on squad, with rx 5700-amd boost on, enhanced sync on in adrenaline, with v-sync off and fsr 3.0 in game it beautifully scaled up 1080p to 4k at 60 fps and seemed very smooth and reactive. Going to test with squad 6.01 update and 23.9.3 adrenaline drivers.

[@MegaGimmler]

Thats hillarious! One "real" Frame and then 3 fake frames after that... But yeah, now we can clearly see some reconstuction artefacts. Maybe there is a reason for that not beeing official supported. On the other hand, what about really high frame rates like 200+? Would we notice artefacts there?

[@siyzerix]

2026-27: Rx9900xtx OC needs to use FSR 5 + Fluid motion 3 + AI ray reconstruction 2 + TV interpolation + another AI BS just to scrape by for 1080p 90fps at ultra settings in 2026-27 AAA games.

[@Yeet42069]

I would actually say that there are cases where this could work reasonably. You need a 1ms or near instant latency screen, near instant latency mouse/keyboard and a cpu architecture that doesn't add too much latency and amd would need to fix the freesync issue with afmf. In that case you could add the extra boost of afmf to fsr 3 comfortably. The issue is that you will have to choose between 80 fps with fsr 3 alone and 105-110 fps with fps with fsr3+fg, for most people 80 fps is good enough while not having too many issue's with additional latency. The real future would be fsr 4 and dlss 4 where nvidia and amd hopefully try to get multiple interpolated frames using their in engine upscaling solution while keeping the latency penalty just the same as dlss 3.5 fg and fsr 3. Because having the latency penalty doubled simply for interpolating extra frames is not a good deal, it could be much lower if fsr3 natively allowed for multiple frame generation instead of simply putting 1 in between each frame.

[@akosv96]

Number go up 📈👍

[@andreyhoru1873]

More interesting is how that game can be so demanding to run at just 20ish FPS? I dont see anything special visually here

[@rudep3222]

He's playing at 4k i think

[@epi23]

this could be alright with a really high base framerate and a 240+ Hz monitor. But interpolating already interpolated frames just can't be really good.

[@perpetualprocrastinator]

Daniel single handedly compelling Radeon driver division to retrace their steps, calling them out where they ought to be , with so many nitty gritty video analysis .👏👏

[@MrSmitheroons]

I thought of something... Your camera is totally getting a good 120FPS recording... KZbin is missing half of that time resolution at 60FPS... You could totally run clips slowed to 0.5x speed to illustrate stutters vs smoothness, so the KZbin 60fps playback shows all the detail you've captured. (If you don't mind jumping from almost zero editing needed to some more substantial amount of editing needed, which is a little bit "oof" admittedly, but it's an option).

[@0M0rty]

At 15:35 it almost feel like the top half and bottom half of the screen have different frame pacing due to tearing? Might just be the camera capture but it's quite interesting

[@makesome_point]

Try to add scanline sync from rtss or from special k to remove the tearing. Your framerate has to be not lower than your TV refresh rate. It will lock it on 120 fps with no tearing theoretically.

[@yeahitsme4427]

It works flawlessly in Forspoken!! Just turn off vsync in game and turn on FSR3 Quality + Frame Gen + in driver AMD Fluid Motion + AntiLag. You will quadruple your FPS and get crazy smoothness. Try it and you will see.

[@vindin641]

Will be good to test on 60hz 144hz @plus monitors.Also tv is not actually monitor and they add extra lag even if turn off all their enhancing stuffs.

[@CHA0SBLEEDS]

I wonder if you uploaded a 120fps video at half the speed, but then we watched at 2x speed if we could see the fluid motion on KZbin. Not sure if I worded that correctly.

[@theneonbop]

FSR 3.0 is (or will be) open sourced. So I have an idea: 1. Run FSR-3 between the two original frames 2. Run FSR-3 on the motion vectors between the 2 original frames, to generate new motion vectors for the generated frame 3. Run FSR-3 between the first frame and the generated frame 4. Run FSR-3 between the generated frame and the second frame = 4x the framerate! and all with FSR 3 levels of quality! Theoretically you could run FSR 3 even more and get however many new frames you want! (yes this is a very stupid idea, but I would love to see it anyways)

[@thishallakshan7410]

damn

[@panjak323]

Your algorithm would be really, really inefficient, because you want to run it on multiple frame buffers totally pointlessly, which would firstly ruin performance and secondly introduce more artifacts, as generated frames are imperfect as is and interpolating them even further would look even worse. Pretty sure you can just scale down the motion vectors to fit multiple generated frames at once. Example: something moves 1 unit between 2 frames, then the generated frame has the object move only by 1/2 unit. If you generate more frames, then scale down the vectors even further eg 1/3, 2/3 for 2 frames etc... Same applied to optical flow.

[@theneonbop]

​@@panjak323 No, because the motion vectors are per-pixel and the same object would be in different places over time. The motion vectors from the first frame and the second frame could show the same objects moving, but in different portions of the screen. And the only way to align the motion vectors with the object they are supposed to be representing is to interpolate them in the same way. Actually, the real solution would probably be to modify (I'm assuming FSR can't do this already, but I don't actually know) FSR to work on inputs with an arbitrary number of dimensions, to do all frame buffers in a single pass. It would just take more work than doing it the way I mentioned.

[@panjak323]

@@theneonbop What are you on about? Doesn't matter if object or a pixel moved. If something has moved 1m in 1s, then at 0.5s it can be estimated that it will be at 0.5m distance. That's what frame gen does. Finds how the pixels moved between 2 frames and estimates halfway positions. If you insert more frames, you can estimate different interpolated positions of pixels based on time. In principle it's as simple as a linear interpolation, the hardest part is finding how the pixels moved in space in the first place. Also yes motion vectors can differ between 2 frames, but you are only using motion vectors of a single frame, as it indicates how the pixels moved in comparison to the previous frame, which is really all you need.

[@theneonbop]

@@panjak323 I don't think FSR 3 has the ability to generate frames at arbitrary times. So the only way to actually run it more than once is to generate intermediate frames (with all the buffers you would need) and interpolate between those.

[@telepop123]

You need to use a frame cap if the framerate isn't reaching the max refresh rate of your monitor and also if it is going above the max refresh rate of your monitor.

[@leanlifter1]

Adaptive sync open standard has put that old school issue to rest.

[@paul1979uk2000]

I wonder if AMD should offer gamers and developers the option of triple and quad frames. I know it will likely look bad over doubling for now but the tech is going to get better overtime where it might look alright, also, some games already might look alright with it now, especially if starting with a high base frame rate. AMD offers different quality settings with resolution scaling, why not with frame rates? and if the quality is bad now, maybe as its developers, it will be more useable to offer more performance for gamers that want that. Also, the results would likely be better if done at a game level or driver level then mixing the two like we are seeing here, it's probably conflicting with each other, reducing performance and creating a bit of a mess and at a game level would be ideal.

[@sapphyrus]

I know people love to make fun of this but this is practically in the domain of CSI magic pretty much considering it’s possible to create 15 pixels from just 1!

[@sayacee5813]

proper math teacher intro

[@PixelShade]

imagine FSR3 Frame Generation + Driver level FMF + ... the TV's own interpolation. getting that 60fps from that ~10fps. ;)