Can Triarii Beat Armoured Elephants in OG Rome: Total War?

[@JonnyReaper]

The man delivered! Nice one 😁 Gotta give props to the Triarii they did stop all the cavalry and the first elephant unit. They did better than I expected!

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thank You! And indeed inpressive from the Triarii. :)

[@kamiloniszczuk9685]

Say what you will about the triarii, they do have a purpose

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.

[@joshuamccarthy3226]

The real problem with Triarii in the Campaigns is that, unless you beeline for the massive cities in Egypt, you're almost always going to develop Huge Cities in Italy and Cisalpine Gaul first, meaning by the time Triarii become available, the Marian Reforms are already being pushed through.

[@kamiloniszczuk9685]

@@joshuamccarthy3226 yes, 100% true. Honestly that's why I liked how RTR mod's recruitment worked, with all units of the manipular legion available from the same building, allowed for fielding accurate pre-Marian armies

[@necromancer803]

Fun fact: all units in loose formation receive a -2 moral penalty. However if there is an elephant unit near it, in loose formation it actually gains +2 moral. This can be found deep in game files. So developers intend people to use loose formation against such war beasts

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Ah. Thanks for the really interesting info. It seems that Triarii get an additional attempt vs Elephants :)

[@PhongNguyen-fk9np]

Can you show me how to find that information in game files? What file that information located?

[@tylerhatcher9645]

Why must the marian reforms take my beloved triarii😢

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed, that is a shame. Auxilia does bot come even close to them :)

[@pastorofmuppets9346]

Marius giveth, marius taketh away That said, its literally the only downside of the reforms. Auxilia arent that bad either, and at least you get access to spearmen from tier2 barracks

[@SharpshooterM6]

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[@justincurry358]

I guess the armoured elephants stomped to victory. Still, credit must be given where it's due. The Triarii were able to do some damage without missile support. For as much of a poor reputation given the other low tier units used against them, when employed for the right engagements the Triarii will do their job. They can hold a line for a long time for flanking manouvers by other units, or protect the flanks of vulnerable missile units from cavalry. When given proper missile support, they will destroy elephants.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Agreed on that. I have to admit that I have underestimated them a bit. Oh, and the Armoured Elephants started to run amok in the end :) Thanks for the comment.

[@JP-le8qc]

Romes finest with an admirable job. I never use them, but maybe I should.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Indeed. I have underedtimated them :) Thanks for the comment.

[@tlf7674]

They're really solid pointy stick boys, the Triarii. Always been a fan.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

I was a bit surprised how well they did. Thanks for the comment :)

[@chewbacca7690]

for those who wonder how he used the mace with the cataphracts you can use ALT+SHIFT to switch them to mace mele weapons

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thank You for the useful info :)

[@chewbacca7690]

@@qualityoldgames7721 I saw that you know that

[@295Phoenix]

Triarii are the best non-phalanx spear unit in the game. It always kills me that you can't use them after the Marian Reforms. Roman Auxilia? Bah!

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Fully agreed on that. In several days the Auxilia will face the same tests as Triarii in this vid :)

[@napoleoncomplex2712]

I was really rooting for that last unit of triarii there. Posting this under the influence of considerably less alcohol than in the poll. Yeah, the armoured elephants are just too much to stop. Still this does redeem the triarii after all of their humiliations at the hands of increasingly junior sword infantry. They will stop cavalry dead in their tracks, and cavalry have a harder time scattering these guys than they do going into the backs of elite phalanxes. Spartans still probably take a rear charge better, but then Spartans are also much more expensive. I'd still usually rather stop a unit of cavalry with a better unit of cavalry most of the time.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. If I remember correctly, you had some antipathy towards the Elephants :D Oh, and in the battle they started to run amok.

[@napoleoncomplex2712]

@@qualityoldgames7721 It wasn't antipathy! I merely wanted to convey the dreadful majesty of these creatures! You know, the kind of awesome power you admire. From a distance. Inside a castle. With a minefield and several rows of barbed wire in front of it. And a cake for good measure.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

😂

[@alexandermyers2615]

A little late to the party her, but I have found that if you are charging into spearmen, the Cataphracts always win if you put them in a wedge. Every time I've run this test, they even beat the Spartan Hoplites if you put them into a wedge. Haven't tried that with the Triarii, but I'd assume it would have the same result. Although maybe not, it seems the Triarii keep their spears out in combat once the Cataphracts break their formation while hoplites and pikemen revert to their secondary weapon, which may actually give the Triarii an edge here. Either way its an interesting thought.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. That sounds really interesting. I need to test that since in my experience this fare wedge formation has been rather abysmal :)

[@ert8968]

Not the best use of Triarii. Lose Formation vs Elephants is better than closed formation.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. It seems a bit more twdting is needed then :)

[@lautaroespora4920]

I'm kinda surprised that the regular war elements did better than the armoured ones. Maybe they hit their charge better.

[@matthewmcneany]

I was wondering if the armoured elephants have a larger hit box, and so the initial damage output of the triarii is concentrated on a smaller number of elephants so they die faster, reducing the elephant's damage output. Alternatively, the Armoured elephants may have finished with more total hit points left, just spread over fewer models. There's a lot of variation in this kind of test, especially just running it once.

[@rorschach1985ify]

@@matthewmcneany I think it's more that when the Armored Elephants ran right through the Triarii they led themselves to being flanked and attacked in the back where they would be more vulnerable where as the War Elephants did not break through the Triarii that much so they were getting hit more in the front where they are most protected.

[@matthewmcneany]

I was also thinking that some of the armoured elephants passed through the triarii quickly and entierly, and maybe they weren't getting their charge bonus properly applied because they weren't actually attaching for the initial seconds of the combat when the bonus applies. @@rorschach1985ify

[@Gyratus]

For all the fight the armoured ones never really faced the triarii directly so they inflicted very little damage while presenting their entire flank to them, therefore taking free hits.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

I was surprised by that as well (and the armoured ones panicking in the end too). Thanks for the comment :)

[@CommanderNissan]

Roman’s scattering: “So it’s a tie?” Seleucids going crazy immediately afterward: Grumble grumble…

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Well, I thought it was rather impressive that the Elephants started to run amok :) Thanks for the comment

[@clontroper5]

Im pretty sure that loose formation works better against elephants since they have massive AOE attacks

[@qualityoldgames7721]

I think you are right. Some more testing is needed :) Thanks for the comment.

[@ДушанПоповић-т6н]

Triarii showed what they are made for, and it is deffinetly not fighting Warbands in Gaul. They only fell againts Armoured and Archer Elephants, they stood no chance. Thank you for this video, it showed us what Triarii are made for, the scenario we rearly encounter.. defending the cities in Italy.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thank You! Yea, they were impressive here :)

[@dudedude1808]

Where is the Triarii follow-up video? :')

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Still on the To-Do list. We usually make these for one week, so likely recording this weekend, editing next week, and release in the week after that. The video load is so large that I cannot manage it otherwise. Thanks for the patience :)

[@dudedude1808]

@@qualityoldgames7721 Thank you, mr. AI. :)

[@tasosmel470]

Should you spread even wider the elephant formations, the first impact results would be greater.

[@qualityoldgames7721]

That is likely the case. At the same time, it seems that Triarii should be in loose formation. I think a bit more testing is in order :) Thanks for the comment.

[@tetnay6793]

I haven't realised that Triarii are that strong!!! Even though I played RTW thousands of hours, I've never able to recruit a single Triarii ever because of Marian Reform

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed. They come quite late ( usually too late in terms of the reforms) :)

[@JoshuaLevitt-ll3bg]

That last battle with the armoured elephants makes me wonder how much of an impact RNG has. If you ran many trials, I wonder how often the triarii would do as well as they did? So strange that the armoured elephants did substantially worse than the war elephants

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the comment. I wondered that too. Within a week Auxilia will face same trials. I think their performance can shed some light to the issue :)

[@TheHusseinjoker]

Everything in total war is based on a dice roll. So yea RNG is always playing a factor in every engagement

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Agreed on that. Though, we will get a bit more info about the RNG as some other spear units will have the same trials :) Thanks for the comment.@@TheHusseinjoker

[@andrei903]

Reminded me of Asterix and Obelix - the way those poor romans flew

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Haha :D Indeed. Thanks for the comment.

[@Xander77Ru]

Is it really that hard to hover your mouse over the enemy unit to show how many men they have left after they win?

[@qualityoldgames7721]

Thanks for the question. I think it has been :) I will try to remember that in the future.

[@oniongingertomato2216]

​@@qualityoldgames7721 I like the positive way you take criticism even though it hasn't been worded politely.