Can We Make This 40 Year Old G12 Locomotive Run Again?

[@fernandomarques5166]

SMT just payed less than a dollar for one of rarest limited edition liveries frateschi ever produced? My god. So I'm brazilian and I'll try and answer some of your questions: This engine was produced by Frateschi Electric Trains, which is the only "RR model" manufacturer in South America, by the looks this is a post-1985 engine but pre-1995 putting it squarely in the Phase 3 of the G12 production, the livery is of the Viação Férrea Centro Oeste - VFCO (Mid Western Railway) division of the RFFSA and was one of several limited edition liveries Frateschi made for this model, I would consider this one of the rarer ones. She's powered by a 3-pole motor like every other model Frateschi ever made and still makes (even if its and sealed motor now, its still a 3-pole, in 2022). Its sold as an HO scale model but its horribly out of scale just like every locomotive they produced until 2012 and every car they produced until today, the exact scale is 1:78,8. On the lubrication question Frateschi recommends the use of sewing machine oil which probably leaked overtime hence why you dont see any when you opened the trucks, its not uncommon. On the make of this engine I know frateschi kinda did most stuff on their own but they did have some partnerships with model power and atlas in the 90s. Also please press the shell into the sill. "This whole electrical system is not very good and it confuses me" Welcome to the Brazilian model railroader experience SMT. It only goes downhill from here. Most recent G12s don't even have metal chassis anymore. Although their latest model, the RS-3/RSC-3, went back to having a metal chassis. There was a lot of fanfare when we heard of that. Keep up the amazing content!

[@mixtec53]

Do trains run through the favelas?

[@BlackHeart37498]

That does sound about right

[@BlackHeart37498]

Because I Have seen similar makes like that In 1997

[@BlackHeart37498]

I seen the similar models at the international model train show

[@kerleyoliveira]

@@mixtec53 In some cities, yes.

[@leandroloves]

According to Celso Frateschi, founder and CEO of Frateschi, the company's first phase models were made in 1/76 scale exactly because of the size of this engine, because there was no other engine at the time, it is worth remembering that imports were prohibited in Brazil at that time. .

[@SMTMainline]

Fascinating history

[@tommurphy4307]

"mr harrison- do you have the paperwork for the strange-looking red locomotive?? we'd like to see it, please." is there a canadian FBI??

[@wilde1909]

Looked up Frateschi, it’s a Brazilian model train manufacturer. I thought this was an interesting video because it was about something not typically seen in North America.

[@matbeech7518]

They also made some models for America and Australia

[@shnorth888]

General Motors G8 and G12 locos were mainly built for export especially to Central and South American countries. however some were built for domestic use. As stated above the London & Port Stanly Railway had two G12's that later went to CN when CN purchased the L&PS. they were last used on Vancouver Island then ended up in Newfoundland as parts sources for CN's narrow gauge G8's. Canadian national also had both standard and narrow gauge G8's. Five standard gauge units (# 850-854) that were used on lightly tracked prairie branchlines plus six narrow gauge G8's (# 800-805) for use on branchlines in Newfoundland.

[@tommurphy4307]

you HO guys get it handed to you- I swear...

[@eltonknak8211]

After 40 years it looks really good

[@joallawestervelt6918]

Way to go. You never disappoint. Another great video. I love watching you figure things out. Thanks for sharing. 💕😊💕

[@SMTMainline]

Thank you!

[@johnellick7362]

Great job diagnosing and fixing the problems with that locomotive. i enjoy watching you problem solve. It inspires me to work on ho trains. I've loved them since I was a kid.

[@jedlahaye4765]

That pattern loco is the same as old Da locos in New Zealand, I have several of these and have been running since I purchased them in the 90s,they don't give many problems as long as you keep the wheels clean, have fun with it, they are great runners, many thanks from down under in Wairoa New Zealand

[@rolfchristensen8350]

I've got one if those, often tempted to buy a 6axel frame for it and see if I could graft on Marklin Nohab 3066 bogie outer frames, would have the correct bogies then for an early Da. Maybe one day,,,,,,

[@tommurphy4307]

hey, jed- my dog Nobrie is from new zealand. i love huntaways! cheers!

[@Zebrails]

Directional lighting, the other bulb was burned out. Needs to be replaced. Awesome locomotive... a great tRReasure! John

[@tommurphy4307]

it would probably be cheaper to upgrade to resistors and LED's

[@lesliefrank2266]

Its good to see model RR is still alive an goun strong keep up the good work ur videos bring back memories of wen i was ur age

[@SMTMainline]

Thanks

[@JoseAntonio-xc3ju]

Hello SMT... locomotive is a G12..produced by the company fratesch..located today in the city of Ribeirão Preto, state of São Paulo...locomotive operated in the 80's... hugs José Brasil.

[@SMTMainline]

Thanks for sharing!

[@tommurphy4307]

you forgot the black-market part....

[@mercuryoak2]

That is one odd rare from what ive read in comments piece. Its far away from its original home. Glad you have the knack for it. Awesome job.

[@sauron8292]

Another great Restoration video - Keep up the great work!

[@newhavennscale]

That is a cool looking locomotive. Congratulations on the addition to your collection.

[@SMTMainline]

Thanks

[@dbtech7914]

That's an interesting engine. Just when you thought you saw everything! Good job again!

[@SMTMainline]

I looked up the brand, they have even more unusual locomotives.

[@williamsantangelo]

Hi Harrison luv your channel great trains and you always seem to find some unusual stuff keep searching Thanks again my friend!!! PJ LI NY!

[@SMTMainline]

Thanks a bunch!

[@stephenhammond1745]

Even though I'm not into model trains and a lot of your videos are pretty much the same (train not working...fix...train now working), for some reason I can't stop watching. Keep the content coming.

[@NorthAmericanTrains]

Wow! What an incredible locomotive! Another great video SMT! ~Pedro

[@typicaltylerrr5342]

Interesting locomotive. Glad you could fix it!

[@transittown7891]

Look at that classic locomotive 😊👍

[@MattKonsol]

Pretty unusual Brazilian locomotive there Harrison.

[@patji123]

Chief- you need to start a repair or refurbished locomotive business. It’s your calling. All the best.

[@sharkieboi4459]

Cool repair, I can't wait to see more from that awesome haul

[@modelrailroader5619]

Nice to have something a little unique. Good score!👍

[@CloneDoRafa]

When i saw my beloved G12 on the thumbnail i almost had a heart attack You should definitely check out the other frateschi models, even though they aren't the highest quality or accurate. There are some interesting and diferent trains they made

[@SMTMainline]

I had a look, I'm thinking about importing a few others.

[@tommurphy4307]

clone: you better be careful with your heart- they might use a frateschi defibrillator.....

[@asteroidrules]

Wow, never seen a model of one of the EMD export locos that wasn't a custom job before. Very interesting piece for sure.

[@thatairplaneguy]

I enjoy seeing all the different drives and motors.

[@brycehill6678]

good vid to have playing in the background while I work on my cursed locomotive, a Spectrum USRA light mountain with a bachmann blue box niagra tender.

[@SMTMainline]

Nice

[@tommurphy4307]

i'm so glad i don't have to work on n scale steam

[@muir8009]

hey bro, just wanted to say you placed a comment on a young guys (one of your subs) video cos he really needed the smt cred. that was a pretty decent thing you did and it made the young fellas day. what a nice guy you are.

[@SMTMainline]

Thank you!

[@JuanGamer0202]

Designer: Ok how much cheap and confusing you guys wants our product to be Frateschi: Y E S

[@nitrorrat8190]

Awesome job sir

[@nitrorrat8190]

Like the the look of this locomotive

[@randallellison6421]

Pretty interesting locomotive Harrison, can't say I've seen anything like it before.

[@SMTMainline]

It sure is unusual

[@danielstickney2400]

Have you ever considered stocking up on a nice assortment of machine screws? I find having a sorted selection of fasteners on hand saves a lot of time and aggravation over the "dump all your bolts in a cookie tin" method.

[@SMTMainline]

I’m not really sure where to buy that sort of stuff but it would be handy.

[@danielstickney2400]

​@@SMTMainline You can start by getting a sorter or two and sorting out the fasteners you already have. Any good hobby shop should have the most commonly used sizes. It doesn't even have to specialize in model trains, screws are screws. If you do get a sorter make sure the compartments are big enough for your fingers so you can get the screws back out. Or you can find assortments online for about 30-50 bucks US or Canadian. Great videos, by the way.

[@chrisdaniell2990]

It's a Frateschi G12... it's slightly out of scale, 1:76, however, you could strip the paint, throw on some LP&S decals (or CN wet noodle as they ran the G12 in Nfld) and get some big $$$ for it on eBay... congrats on the find.

[@cashstrains652]

Dude im from NFLD,

[@cashstrains652]

Also its the g8 in newfoundland

[@chrisdaniell2990]

Around early 1976 two G12's were sent east to CN's Newfoundland operations and ended their lives serving as parts units for the fleet of narrow-gauge G8's on the island.

[@SMTMainline]

I think they might still be making them too

[@cashstrains652]

G8s 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, and 805 were built for the nfld railway. 2 are preserved. 803 in carbonear,(NL) And 805 at the st constant railway museum

[@Istoeumapemba]

Learning some more about locomotive repairing, and this time, about a model that is "common" in Brazil (At least the mechanics).

[@Mike__B]

That was a very odd electrical pickup on the bottom of the motor. It uses a big metal plate in a C shape to electrically connect the top part to that tab on the bottom which it seemed the only reason it needed to be screwed in is because the piece of the metal is used as a spring. The board on top seems to also serve no function other than not wanting wires connecting things and as a mount for the lights, there's no diodes or anything to only turn on one set of lights or the other based on direction. That said I'd solder a wire directly to those tabs and bring it to the electrical pickups (you could even just solder it to a part on that board). It is a very nice looking engine though.

[@SMTMainline]

There were diodes on the bottom of the board which is why the light only worked going forward. Still a very unusual way to wire things.

[@tommurphy4307]

i saw some devices on that board- i thought they were resistors, at first.

[@slaydefranklin6637]

Great work. Very interesting. Keep up the good work

[@JuanGamer0202]

Dude i'm from Brazil and i love those old paint works from RFFSA, i have a wooden SD-40 with this same paint work, sadly the newer Locomotives from here have basicaly two colors and and the Railway company logo

[@Petemonster62]

SMT - The motor appeared to move in the chassis when you did further assembly. You may need a thin, flexible wire from that bottom contact on the motor to a screw on the frame.

[@SMTMainline]

I think it’s meant to be somewhat loose to reduce noise. The main issue seemed to be that stripped screw not making contact.

[@Petemonster62]

@@SMTMainline - Yes, I could see the motor loosely mounted for some " slop " between the shaft couplings. Providing a solid electrical path between the motor contact & locomotive chassis would be a good idea. You will think of something good SMT!

[@tommurphy4307]

the free mounting is intentional to reduce buzziness which, if severe, uses the frame & plastic shell as resonators, making it even louder. the transfer plate on the bottom has a springy contact to allow that movement. i think you nailed it with that screw being the culprit. that looks like a soft-metal fuel tank/weight- it would be easy to dimple the thing with a drill making room for your larger screw if you think it tilts the motor too much. good job- check's in the mail!

[@nicos8964]

Caramba, não esperava ver uma locomotiva BR aqui

[@scottpool4777]

Yeah definitely you’ve done a good job👍

[@kingpennifold7953]

I love you vids and your good job 😀🇨🇦

[@Posttrip]

I’ve been looking at Frateschi with great interest. I love the Briazilian liveries, locomotives and rolling stock. I see I can buy them directly or on eBay from a seller. I’m certainly interested in the Brazilian rail system. Great video.

[@SMTMainline]

I was looking at some of their other models as well. A few look pretty nice, not sure if the drive is any better than this one though. Another commenter mentioned that they’re still using 3 pole motors.

[@ohiovalleyrailfan]

@@SMTMainline The main shafts, though, do look a standard size. If you feel crafty a new 7-pole can motor (and maybe a sound decoder) can do the trick.

[@tommurphy4307]

more poles does not necessarily mean a better drive- if the unit has a numerically high gear ratio, a 3-pole motor could be just fine for it. if it's a lower ratio, the added low-rpm power of a 5 or even 7-pole motor would let it pull better and run more smoothly in a proto speed range. those look like phosphor-bronze wipers in there and they can absolutely corrode. that is a goofy power transfer scheme in that thing.

[@SMTMainline]

@@tommurphy4307 3 Pole motors are still prone to cogging at low speeds even with a severe gear reduction.

[@northerncountryrailroad8939]

Awesome!

[@williammcgeehan3424]

It's reminiscent of the Fairbanks Morse H16-44 Baby Trainmaster.

[@JBofBrisbane]

There were similar EMD locos running in Australia and New Zealand.

[@carmenbejar481]

Hermosa locomotora saludos

[@GARDEN_RAILWAY-HO-BRAZIL]

hard to find people from outside brazil to have frateschi products at home congratulations on the restoration keep it well

[@buzzytrains9037]

close to the flat top T class here in australia which is a G8, we have a TL class which is a G12 but it was made for china then sent here. other than that you should try doing more videos on EMD export locomotives, this video was great and I suck at writing long comments

[@SMTMainline]

Seems like these locomotives ended up just about everywhere. Huge fan of Australia's locomotives, I want to add more to the collection.

[@ferrovocho28]

It's an old Frateschi.

[@nitrorrat8190]

That is a good looking engine

[@kenmunozatmmrrailroad6853]

Something extremely satisfying watching you lube that bone dry gearbox. Great job bringing her back to life!

[@tommurphy4307]

s-l-a-t-h-e-r it harrison!

[@eisenbahnerharthausen]

Its a very beautiful locomotive. Here in Germany you could sell it for over 40 Dollars - even if its broken.

[@SMTMainline]

I wasn't aware the prices were so much higher there.

[@jamesblack449]

Nice Locomotive but funny looking couplers I've never seen those kind before

[@leonardosouza6290]

Hello everyone! This is a G12 from Frateschi (the only of 3 train maker who survived)made in Brazil, this is an 30 years old model, today it uses Mabuchi style motors and dog bone joints, its railway was extinct but loved RFFSA-Rede Ferroviária Federal Sociedade Anonima( Federal Railway Net Anonymous Society). It selled how HO 1/87, but, its almost OO 1/72(its a famous, loved and hated, is a discord and discussion point between railroaders) i like the endless discussions about it.... It was simpler and cheaper than imported ones, that factor made many railroaders start to collect trains. And it is exported to almost all America's countries, africa and New Zealand. That is in good condition, appears it was frozen in the time. I suggest you to make jumpers in this system.

[@johnd8892]

Frateschi models also sold in Australia to limited success. Cheaper prices for those accepting a near enough but not exact model. The Victorian Railways in a Australia had a similar versions of this locomotive , the flat top series one T class, running on our 1600 mm gauge lines in the state.

[@MultiMarcin001]

what were the other 2 companies?

[@leonardosouza6290]

@@johnd8892 thank you, i forgeted Australia! One of greatest ou greatest one buyers of Frateschi. In Brazil G12 and it's previous build G8, rolled over in to 1 meter and 1.6 meter railways!

[@leonardosouza6290]

@@MultiMarcin001 First, was Pionneer closed long time ago(almost don't have trains or history from that anymore); Second was Atma(the burned to ashesb but today still found trains to sell, but they are vanishing and prices raising); Thanks to interest, sorry little English.

[@tommurphy4307]

harrison- that DOES look like a mabuchi motor.

[@WisconsinCentralProductions]

the youtube user "Panamerican Railroad" uses these and some other GE stuff in his videos. they are really good

[@tommurphy4307]

i believe he said it was built by EMD

[@blairhinton7535]

Same as the Da class loco used in New Zealand from the 50's-90's

[@danielwaters6131]

Very Interesting. However, lack of power doesn't necessarily mean a "short circuit". More likely this might indicate that is an open circuit, or a very high resistance in the circuit, with no current flow, or very low current. Shorts tend to burn wiring, burn fuses blow breakers. High resistance solder joints, broken wires and bad or missing brushes, dirty commutators all creat open circuits.

[@ronsindric4241]

Thank you for the post ! Have you ever worked on N, Z, and T Gauge engines and rolling stock ? Would like to see you kit bash some N-Gauge stuff to get some yard machinery and track maintenance vehicles. Getting reeeally silly, how 'bout Z Gauge LIVE STEAM 😜

[@SMTMainline]

I can't say I have worked on any of those before

[@tommurphy4307]

@@SMTMainline and you don't want to start, either. you are a craftsman who's found your hobby niche- stick with it. take it from me- N scale club rat & motor-binker.

[@QuebecFietser]

actually thos loco's mechanics are so simple, it's giving me ideas for when i desing a 3d printed loco of myself

[@SMTMainline]

It's not common to make locomotives like this anymore.

[@tommurphy4307]

you mean like claribel??

[@GaryDavis-ir6fh]

absolutely!

[@warbirdgamer]

Watched all videos since the seamless loco

[@pesnostrilhos1282]

in Brazilians we have your dash 9 locomotive, and this one the g12 locomotive is out of scale

[@Papa_Shurika]

Отличная работа! Мне нравится этот локомотив.👍

[@elleryparsons5766]

If I was a Betting Man my Money is On You Harrison.

[@SMTMainline]

Thank you!

[@elleryparsons5766]

Your Welcome.

[@tommurphy4307]

careful when you hit it, harrison- you might knock the shell back together.....

[@StephenAtt797]

Lots of good info here, I took the shell off my Frateschi loco and it appears much different, few screws (certainly of the size you have), I suspect it's a bit newer. Runs poorly with little traction, will have to finally look at servicing it. I wonder if any of the Brazilian folks know if these loco's used traction tires (mine has none), otherwise it definitely would point me to some review of the drive system.

[@SMTMainline]

I believe this one had some, so I would imagine yours would too.

[@StephenAtt797]

@@SMTMainline thanks, will give that a try

[@tommurphy4307]

you could be disappointed at how it performs with traction tires- the use of 2 tt's on an 8-wheel unit would reduce its pickup by 25%. If you have crossings and turnouts (especially with plastic frogs) on your layout, i would say skip that idea. additional weight is a better idea- it would serve to enhance the pickup as well as the traction. you HOers have LOTS of room in your locomotives for more weight (i'm jealous- again) and other fun devices. you've got a choice- run traction tires and clean your track and wheels more often or skip them. making a little sand block with #600 grit paper (i use a worn piece) and finishing the rail heads with it might help and it will also help with power pickup.

[@StephenAtt797]

@@tommurphy4307 Thanks, I really don't like using TTs have tried that FrogSnot stuff on a couple of loco's, helped a bit. I think I've got to look at tearing the thing down first so see if there are some other issues. Right now, not sure it's running strong enough to add weight - but will explore option.

[@kevinbreaker2683]

You're magic👍

[@pawpewpow9269]

Nice vídeo you should check out other frateschi models like The u20c

[@jamesblack449]

I'm learning a lot from you!

[@randolphfriend8260]

❤ Possibly, the insides of the brass wheels, where the contacts touch, needed cleaning also?

[@SMTMainline]

They do but the friction should help fix that on its own.

[@antonioarras8000]

I like it 👍

[@user-MotoTrains1974]

Cool

[@andrewferguson5653]

That engine looks familiar.....CN had G5 models on the Newfoundland railway.

[@SMTMainline]

I think it's the same model.

[@mwin4kids1]

Awesome content! What controller do you use for DC? I like your repair videos and troubleshooting tips!!

[@SMTMainline]

It's an MRC Tech 3 9500 series

[@charlesbard2331]

when your repairs are done You should test it on the track before putting the body back on to avoid excessive wear of taking it on and off....

[@tommurphy4307]

i'm thinking that after 40 years everything that can wear out or break from abuse has already happened.

[@mr.shadestrains6033]

Very nice 🚂❤️😎👍

[@joserubenscaramori8117]

Tem que soldar esse terminal no motor ao PCI!!!

[@colbeausabre8842]

I wonder if it didn't end up in Canada because somebody wanted to repaint them for the L&PS or CN. About the only thing I don't like are those truck mounted couplers - and what strange beasts they seem to be!

[@loucosmotivaferromodelismo6560]

G12 muito bonita 😃👍🏽🇧🇷

[@Wildfire_1701]

My prediction is yes

[@paulostrong1834]

Opa essa eu conheço kkkk✌️🇧🇷

[@ghostseekers8492]

Frateschi I got one a little while ago as new have not tried it yet

[@ferromodelismon8012]

That from Frateschi Brasil manufactured.

[@sphynx108]

This is probably one of the strangest motor design I’ve seen watching your channel. Really odd.

[@falzar3381]

I would say the same with the drive shaft. Quite an oddball of an engine here.

[@muir8009]

why is that? looks like a fairly atypical open frame motor to me...

[@falzar3381]

@@muir8009 I don't know; it just seems to be a bit higher up than normal or that it looks like it's bent. Maybe it's the age of the model that throwing me off.

[@muir8009]

@@falzar3381 I think I know what you mean. It's like every part of the loco has had a different person design a different component in separate rooms with absolutely no idea what each other was doing until it had been finished. There's just no look of a designed product. I've got one of these models and yes, it's exactly as you say. I'm actually going to throw an athearn under it as its running has really turned circumspect, and its flanges are a little large even for C83

[@tommurphy4307]

doesn't it look like a giant motorific motor?

[@BlackHeart37498]

SMT the Company is called Frateschi

[@SMTMainline]

Thanks

[@sergioarroyoguerrero5434]

Brazilian locomotive in HO scale, G12.

[@georgethomas7814]

similar to Da locomotives used in New Zealand

[@woohoofromtexasharris4814]

I like it, I like it.😁😁😁🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🚚

[@robertschmidt6383]

Why not clean the backs of the wheels also with the contacts plates?

[@SMTMainline]

I did off camera on the wheel I removed but I didn't want to remove the secured wheels. The friction of the wipers should clean them up just from running.

[@tommurphy4307]

they only need to be checked for proper pressure- running with proper wiper pressure is self-cleaning- in any locomotive with wheel wipers.

[@mixtec53]

Neat!!! EL GATO NERFF!!!!

[@chevypower1993]

Where would you be able to purchase one of these units? Reminds me some of a Trainmaster.

[@SMTMainline]

They still make them, look up Frateschi G12 on eBay.

[@andrequestsgt]

Os Norte americanos Junto com JK......"Vamos brincar de sucatear as ferrovias brasileiras"!

[@e.paparelli5457]

You messed with the defect and didn't even notice. This contact can be seen to be loose. Invert its position, to touch the motor pole and redo the soldering. Then clean the engine manifold.

[@SMTMainline]

Manifold for what?

[@141runn]

is that fiberglass you're using to clean the wheels?

[@SMTMainline]

Yes it is

[@ArcadiaJunctionModelTrains]

Looks like you might have the start if some Mazak Rot/Zinc Pest in the lower weight.

[@SMTMainline]

I think it's just crappy pouring of lead.

[@tommurphy4307]

a good epoxy paint will stop that...

[@ArcadiaJunctionModelTrains]

@@tommurphy4307 NOTHING stops Zinc Pest

[@vandenbricks]

Reminds me of the Victorian Railways S1 T class, only taller

[@SMTMainline]

I can kinda see it

[@johnd8892]

@@SMTMainline a vid on a local model of the Victorian Railways T class first series : kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGi6g62NgLF8arc Five minutes in you get to see the model clearly, but not the more up to date drive system. Pity he runs it on far too tight curves.

[@railtrolley]

The body shell should be a similar size to the VR flat top T. It is a bit out of scale to fit the motor, which I'm guessing was all Frateschi had available. They were sold in Australia some time ago, so a "near enough" flat top T could be modelled.

[@tommurphy4307]

@@johnd8892 it's a compromise all us modelers make- if we want our train layouts to fit on a tabletop...

[@johnd8892]

@@tommurphy4307 yes, but the tight curves are putting stress on the drive system. Better to stick to toy makes for toy train curves.

[@leandroloves]

👍

[@4everdc302]

SMT Mainline manual foreign locomotives chapter page SouthAmerica.🚂🇨🇦🙋

[@fernandovecchio1649]

The brand is fratechi

[@SMTMainline]

Thanks

[@danielferrovias]

Can you fix my GE U20C? and paint it on the FTL livery?