Can women be deacons? Dr. John MacArthur (1 Timothy 3)

[@obkook7205]

It clearly states in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

[@raymondgloba6461]

You nailed it, mate! That's what the original command of God is! Not sexist comment of man, but wise command of God.

[@adrianpasillas3832]

But deacon do not authority unless given by the overseer...READ and STUDY...

[@adrianpasillas3832]

@@raymondgloba6461 But deacon do not authority unless given by the overseer...READ and STUDY...

[@Pugilist928]

@@adrianpasillas3832 Deacons should be the husband of one wife. What is hard to understand?

[@Mermayydman]

​@@Pugilist928 I think you are speaking about an elder/pastor

[@williambrown3427]

What I like about this is it sounds like he genuinely is just trying to understand the intention of the text without a bias or agenda.

[@pastordavidberman2091]

We’ve understood the text for 2000 years until feminism infiltrated the church

[@o.d.kay633]

The issue, though, is in many churches, especially in the baptist circle, is that deacons function more like elders which is a male only roll. Deacons are not supposed to be positions of authority, so first Timothy 2 doesn't negate Dr MacArthur's interpretation.

[@stephm5877]

@kody8102010 I agree. I think churches should stop making deacons elders in training and call it what it is. So much confusion comes from that.

[@demontejohnson4102]

🎯

[@rosea2350]

I’m glad I understand now; women can be deacons but they cannot be an elder.

[@VidmantasSwan]

or pastor ;)

[@stephm5877]

@@VidmantasSwan elder

[@VidmantasSwan]

@@stephm5877 a church where the "pastor" is a woman is a church without a pastor. such a church is a sheep without a shepherd...

[@webstar37]

@rosea2350 WRONG, Biblically Speaking, Women do NOT meet GOD'S given Qualifications to be a "Deacon" in the LORD'S CHURCH, for it is Written, 1 Timothy 3:8-12 v8. "Likewise, MUST the deacons be grave, nor doubletounged, not given to much wine, not greedy for filthy lucre; V9. Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscious. V.10 "And let these also first be proved ; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless." V.11 "Even so must their WIVES be grave , not slandered, sober, faithful in all things", V.12 "Let the deacons be the HUSBANDS of one Wife ruling their children and their own houses well. " The Term Deacon is given in the MASCULINE Tense, NEVER in the feminine!! It is GOD'S Order for the LORD'S CHURCH, women can NOT hold any Leadership Position in Christ Church, Biblically Speaking!

[@stephm5877]

@@webstar37 you could try studying the Greek, listening to the video, or reading the scriptures in context.

[@dhidalgo5743]

In verses 8-10, Paul says, "Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain, but holding to the mystery of the faith with a conscience. And let these also be first tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach." In verse 12, he says, "Let deacons be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and of their own households." Notice that just like with the qualifications for elders in verses 1-7, Paul's list of qualifications for deacons is primarily moral. First, Paul says that deacons, just like elders, are to be good family spiritual leaders. It is vital that if they are going to spiritually serve the congregation that they know how to spiritually serve their own families. Next, Paul says that deacons are also to be tested before they are set apart for this particular work. Finally, a man must meet specific moral qualifications for the office of deacon. Specifically, the deacon is to have self-control in speech, in drink, and in the area of money. Paul wants deacons to be men of upstanding moral character. They need to be men of dignity, husbands of one wife, and good managers of their children and households. Again, Paul's pattern is to point to fundamental godliness as the qualification for the office of deacon.

[@paaniiyartey58]

@Grip Stadium or servant

[@Jake-rc4ws]

@Grip Stadium right, so we don’t know if Phoebe was a servant or held the office of servant (aka deacon)

[@Jake-rc4ws]

@TCB143 1 Tim 8-13 clearly outlines the office of deacon. The difference between being a servant (deacon) and the OFFICE of servant (ordained deacon) is that the ordained deacon has authority to oversee while the servant does not.

[@Jake-rc4ws]

@TCB143 sorry if my original reply mixed up the titles a little bit. But the main idea is that there is a clear difference between someone who serves (all of us in a sense) and holding a servant position.!

[@ndmso]

@@paaniiyartey58 But he never says a Deacon should not be a woman. The term Man always today always encompasses both Male and Female humans. I think what Paul is emphasizing is that Human Deacons should not be drunkards or sac religious which is something you decided to even conceptualize. If Paul didn't want a woman Deacon, then he would have specified that. He never says that. Not to mention many passages state that there were female deacons.

[@kimharper7027]

A woman (in God's eye's) can NOT be the husband of one wife. Women are not to be deacon's. Period.

[@happyappy19931]

As a woman, I don’t understand why so many women are trying to rewrite Scripture to meet their desires. Why are so many women wanting these positions? To me, it seems like a move of feminism and is coming from a worldly view, not a godly one. There are many ways women can serve in the church. Why are so many bucking God’s way?

[@chrisanok9283]

Pride.. they want power over the congregation

[@thispak]

I respect John MacArthur, and I know God really gifted him with the knowledge of exegesis by the Spirit. I'm currently checking out a church, I asked the head pastor if he were a complimentarian or egalitarian, and he said by conviction, a complimentarian, but then I see he permitted women deacons. I got a bit confused because I thought according to 1 Timothy 3, deacon is still considered a church leader or "overseer." While they don't preach authority over men, they are still recognized as leaders over men? I just find this "compromise" inconsistent with scripture personally. I was actually shocked to hear MacArthur's response supporting women deacons here by his interpretation of this passage.

[@Warriorsruach]

Deacon means servant. How does a servant have authority over anyone?

[@fromthewrath2come]

Exegesis by the Spirit? How about exegesis in the historical, cultural, economic, context.

[@inakiflores1103]

What's so important about deacons and elders being male? It's not even like God, or Jesus said that, or intended it to be interpreted like that. There are too many holy scriptures to be able to call one the "right one"

[@Warriorsruach]

@Scribeintheink Deacons handle the tasks that are delegated to them by the overseers of the congregation. But the work of a deacon should not be to "direct, oversee, or command" other people. The argument you're making only serves to elevate a deacon above their station. That's like saying a bondservant is "in charge" of cleaning the dishes after a meal. You can be responsible for a task without exercising authority over other people.

[@inakiflores1103]

@Scribeintheink see, the problem with following everyone's words (which sometimes aren't even theirs) is that you have got no way to know if that's what God really wanted us to do or not. A lot of religions, but in this case, Christianity, are highly corrupted by the church

[@dougdoesit3013]

This interpretation just does not seem natural with the text. The deacon must be a man of one wife, just like the elder. If man doesn't mean man, and wife can be applied as a husband, then so also the qualification for elder can be interchanged between the sexes too. And never in the history of the church has this understanding ever been the case, until the advent of liberal theology. The KJV seems like the most natural reading. Context determines whether it should read women or wives. Wives just seems like a natural meaning that draws the text together. The "likewise" seems like it is connecting, not women to deacon, but wives of deacons and elders to part of the the men's qualification for the respective office. And that makes total sense, as their ministry would have mainly occurred within their home life. And for an elder or deacon to have a wife of unsound character would also be a disqualifying situation, just like having children of bad character would.

[@dougdoesit3013]

The only other thing I would add is that I was taught in school that reformation hermeneutics had two principles, not the only two, but two out of several: A) Go with the clear meaning of the text. I am not a KJV only man. But the KJV is a good translation. And of the different versions it deals with this part of the text simply and clearly and the reading is natural to the flow of the text. What good reason do I have not accept that? Greek scholars have been working from that text for generations who did not see a problem with the reading that needed correcting. B) Scripture interprets scripture: Whenever the qualifications are raised in other passages, the selection is always a man. The qualifications are for men. Taken together I feel that gives weight to the KJV dealing with this text. As for the passages when deacon and a woman is used in the same sentence, is it really describing her office or her service? Is it being used as a title or as a description of her character as a worker? After all, women are excluded from the office of pastor teacher, but that doesn't prevent me from pointing to a particular woman and saying "among teachers there is none better." I haven't given her an office, but I have described her service. I have acknowledged her ability, but I have not defined the context of her service. If I did, and there are women who are good teachers, I would probably be describing her in her appointed role in: "teaching younger women to be discreet, chaste homemakers, obedient to their own husbands."

[@inakiflores1103]

It isn't even translated faithfully most of the time. Too much tradition, that's why so many families are leaving that fate.

[@Ark-Angel44]

Consider this, what cultures are you aware of where women have more than one husband? I'm not aware of ANY. Consider this, it is also believed that Phoebe, the first person Paul mentioned in his closing in Romans 16.1, was the person who carried the letter to Rome. The letter carrier, was also the person who read the letter to the Church and then answered questions from the church after it had been read. So then Phoebe, would have had the responsibility of answering all their questions about what we consider to be a doctrinal treasure for Christianity. In Paul's place. Just sit with that for awhile. I do believe that discipleship is always gender specific. Men to men and women to women. I also object to children's ministry being relegated to women only. I think it's critically important that children see women and men in that role.

[@dougdoesit3013]

@@Ark-Angel44 Not sure where you are getting the historical information from. I don't follow your reasoning in para 1. I n para 2, Phoebe carrying is speculation. Doctrine cannot be based upon speculation. That is the error known as eisogesis. Further, As women were not allowed to read or speak in the synagogue or church., Phoebe would not have been the reader regardless if she carried. I know of no rule that the carrier must also read and explain. Do you have reference for that? In para 3, I don't think anything I spoke to prevents men from participating in children's ministry.

[@xmurrcattx3498]

I know you posted two years ago, but for others: your historical knowledge of this is very limited if you think there were only female deacons in the 19th and 20th century. Female deacons were in the Church from the very beginning and are attested to by the earliest church fathers, giving rules and regulations for them and reasons for their service. Ultimately the office of deaconess fell into disuse by the 13th century, mainly due to the fact that their primary ministry had become baptism of adult females, and with the change to infant baptism and the fact that there were few adult females who were pagan or of other religions to be baptized, there wasn't any reason left for them, in the eyes of the church.

[@lester4847]

Even if theres no "Their" in 11, verse 12 directly saying or using the word "deacons" 1 Timothy 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. so verse 11 could be the description of deacons wives/women

[@litoalonzo4626]

Yes can be address to wife or women. But the context is clear used languages "One" or "Children" described to the wife of v12. Verse 11 no hint use standard syntax consistence with previous and afterward verses of 10 and 12. But the Greek reading διακονϊα (diakonia) it usage to both male and female in accordance with context setting to whom describe position or status of service. Maybe to husband or maybe to church activities or maybe to wife and women useful in the ministry.

[@johnmarkharris]

The reason why there would not be qualifications for Elders’ wives is because of the nature of an Elder’s work, authoritative teaching. Deacons have no such work, they do not serve with authority, thus their wives serve with them in their office. Why would women have different qualifications for the same office?

[@Pugilist928]

Husband's of one wife not wife of one husband. Case closed.

[@BerylSeer1]

True

[@graysonbr]

I heard this sermon about 17 years ago. I brought this up to my pastor at the church and they respected Macarthur's view but disagreed. Because he exegeted the passage so well, I have held this view since then. I believe this is who he speaks about later on in the letter about being supported on the list.

[@toomanymarys7355]

Well, the early church universally agreed with McArthur and made a formal role of deaconess. It wasn't the same as that of deacon.

[@TimothyC.84]

@@toomanymarys7355 Show me that in scripture. Why’d you run?

[@toomanymarys7355]

@@TimothyC.84 I didn't run. And its in scripture. The plain meaning of the text. You just can't read Greek and falsely claim that all the native speakers of the language got it wrong, unlike you, who is soooooo much more knowledgeable of the language they spoke literally every day of their lives. You need to repent of your arrogance.

[@toomanymarys7355]

@@TimothyC.84 Shouldn't you be in church right now?

[@TimothyC.84]

@@toomanymarys7355 Deflection tactics say more about you than me. 😂

[@pastordavidberman2091]

Because he is talking about the wives of elders and deacons

[@richbaker7187]

He gives his opinion on the Greek word "gunaikos", and although it is just "women" and not necessarily a "wife", but he completely blows by THE HUSBAND PART.

[@Joyyarns]

I have to strongly disagree. He is simply truncating the whole passage. Verse 12 clearly part of the whole passage and deacons must be husbands.

[@xmurrcattx3498]

so no bachelor deacons is what you say?

[@goodatbeingpoor]

People who hold the “deaconess view” often say “then why does it not mention the wives of elders if it’s talking about the wives of deacons?” It would not need to mention the wives of elders, since women cannot hold the position of elder in any manner, we cannot teach the congregation, we must be silent, learning in all submissiveness and even asking our husbands when we have questions. Unlike the wife of an elder, the wife of a deacon would be assisting him in his ministry. Deacon mean servant. Servant doesn’t mean Deacon. All Christians should be servants, but not all servants of Christ are ordained deacon’s.

[@harmonicachick100]

No they should not. I m a woman and I approve this message.

[@xmurrcattx3498]

Oh, then I guess we can all go home now.. but seriously, why would you being a woman add anything to your point? It's scripture that matters, not whether we "approve" of it or not.

[@stephm5877]

Women often leave church to do what God calls them to do, to lead ministries that minister and teach women because there are too many roadblocks in church. Churches have failed women, but you can't stop the will of God.

[@dannpurvis]

God is not the one calling women into ministry of men.

[@stephm5877]

@@dannpurvis what does that have to do with my comment?

[@gsmbcgsmbc1413]

Boy really need to study this subject... I realize that serving in ministry is open for men and women but I have an understanding that there is only two offices in the church Pastors and Deacons and men are the first to lead out in ministry.... A man lead ministry is God's divine order...this calling to serve is first given to men...but not to be in a power struggle with our women in ministry....🙏🙏🙏...many people approach this with the idea gaining power and authority...Christ is the head with the only authority...

[@birybenjamin3522]

For as far as I have believed and followed John macauther, I've never come in a position where I disagree with him, but on this, I totally disagree;, the Bible is clear about who the deacons should be;

[@n9wff]

If he says there is no word for wives, explain Ephesians 5:22-32. I'm going to look this up as well.

[@n9wff]

@Scribeintheink I found there is no word for wives or husbands in either the Hebrew or Greek concordance. Hence, they are synonymous with each other. The literal connection is "woman to her man."

[@buckyoung4578]

This is a tortured interpretation of the text. The Bible is clear-no women ruling over men in the church. As a deacon/elder/minister/pastor/etc. is a ruler/leader, then women are excluded from those offices.

[@kevinokief4191]

Keep being you as u r called no matter whos calling 10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

[@Rachel-mv6bh]

Amen it says in 1 tim 3:11 women likewise. In verse 12 the husbandof one wife i believe is mentioned because polygamy was big backthen, and the women were not mentioned to be the wife's of one husband because women did not have multiple husbands at one time.

[@janicechildress3308]

I love John MacArthur , the greatest theologian of our time, but I disagree with him here. Where are the qualifications given for the ordination of women? I could not ordain a woman for deacon if I have no questions to ask if she is qualified or not for the office. Many of his arguments come from silence of the scriptures . We cannot build a doctrine out of silence! Must be the husband one one wife, what woman can meet this qualification? Once we ordain women as deacons , we take another step away from what the scriptures clearly teach. Let just do what is clear to us in the scriptures!

[@teluvv66]

Women in verse 11 in this text makes no sense to mean what is being explained here. Likewise simply means in the same manner, which refers to a standard being held for those under the leadership of the man just like an overseer. In other words, a Deacon It's charged with fostering a culture in his home.That produces a certain type of wife as well as children just like the bishop mentioned earlier in this passage period this is what the likewise is for referring to. Furthermore You would have to then change every reference for men and women, husbands and wives in the rest of the bible. the order of male and female husband and wife and the church is pretty clear. Jesus is not confused about what he wants us to do.

[@gloriazaalman1915]

I have to disagree! No woman Devon no women Preacher!! Period...

[@tongxiong5204]

As much respect as I have for John MacArthur, I would have to disagree with this message.

[@toomanymarys7355]

All the ancient churches had women deacons. They had different roles though.

[@TimothyC.84]

@@toomanymarys7355 1 Tim 3-12 says it shouldn’t be so. Just because they did it doesn’t mean they were right to do so.

[@toomanymarys7355]

@@TimothyC.84 Lol. So you think the first generation didn't understand the gospel???? That Paul who wrote that was wrong to recognize Phoebe???? Maybe you have a comprehension problem. Hint: use a word study on "silent " to understand what Paul ALWAYS means.

[@TimothyC.84]

@@toomanymarys7355 I didn’t say that. But that doesn’t mean they were 100% obedient to what the scriptures say. Think friend.

[@TimothyC.84]

@@toomanymarys7355 I’m not arguing what Paul said. I’m arguing the application. You used the Early Church as an example as if they were not flawed. I’m using the word which I know is not flawed. Calm down.

[@s.k.6616]

Women should minister to women.

[@dinosaurmuscles4534]

I Timothy 3: 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. John MacArthur is thus either completely spiritually blind, or a total liar. Galatians 1: 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Now choose. Believe the Revealed Word of God, or believe John MacArthur. You cannot follow both. Your choice. Choose Wisely. Eternity hangs in the balance.

[@armchairapologist7612]

I believe that women can and should do the work of a deacon but the actual office of deacon should be left to a man. The passage says husband of one wife or faithful to his wife but not the other way around? I believe that Deacon wives partner with their Deacon husbands as it pertains to the diaconate ministry and this is why women are mentioned with the deacons and not the bishops. My understanding anyway.

[@Zappacuda]

I agree with you as that's the conclusion I've come up with when studying the text

[@sebastianbrisson9232]

That doesn’t make sense! It’s one or the other! Can’t be both!

[@stephm5877]

So do the same work, but be called something else? How condescending. The pride is palpable. If you do all the work of elder and call yourself president, are you an elder in God's eyes or president?

[@xmurrcattx3498]

@Scribeintheink that sword cuts both ways.

[@evamaggard3663]

My grandpa was a deacon not my grandma… My pastor was a man … I still believe men are leaders and

[@barryallen119]

The first seven deacons in Acts 6 are all men. Why did the Apostles not include women if it was a gender neutral position? How can a female deacon be husband of one woman? Johnny Mac is clearly confused.

[@xmurrcattx3498]

When did Apostle become the office of deacon? When were the seven given any particular ministry other than to temporarily feed their widows? If they were deacons only, why then were they preaching and teaching? And as for qualifications for deacons, I suppose then you would disallow widowers? You are clearly set on a particular outcome.

[@barryallen119]

@@xmurrcattx3498 Acts 6:1-7 [1] Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. [2] And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. [3] Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. [4] But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” [5] And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch. [6] These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them. [7] And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

[@barryallen119]

@@xmurrcattx3498 You are merging two offices into one. There is a clear dinstinction. In studying the New Testament passages, it becomes clear that the type of servanthood given to the deacons has an emphasis on the physical needs of the people of God. We see this in Acts 6:1-6, where seven men were chosen to provide food for the Greek-speaking widows in the Apostolic church. The Apostles, who in some ways serve as the pattern for the ministry of the elders, were left to focus on the ministry of the Word and on prayer. So, we see in the church that the elders are tasked chiefly with attending to the spiritual needs of the people of God and the deacons are appointed to deal with the physical needs of the saints. Of course, this does not mean that the elders never deal with physical needs or that deacons never address spiritual needs; rather, we are speaking of emphasis. Deacons primarily care for people physically and elders primarily care for people spiritually. The Apostles appointed Deacons to serve the Widows, so that they can continue to preach. Is it that hard to understand?

[@davidprice9792]

It almost seems as if this is a bad joke. I don't understand how he can be saying this.

[@toomanymarys7355]

Because literally all the early churches had deaconesses???

[@toomanymarys7355]

@@kennethnealKOGE No, he of saying what the plain reading of the Greek says and what every ancient church understood. A deaconess did not have the exact same role as a deacon. They largely, though not entirely, were distinct roles.

[@ChristoffKott]

Creative use of verses and the original text? Seriously? I never expected this from John MacArthur.

[@xmurrcattx3498]

which maybe should make you think that you're interpreting the situation incorrectly.

[@messiahette]

Unfortunately I disagree here. Women were never deacons. Servants yes who assisted and helped, but not DEACON

[@Lucas-ix8bg]

Deacon means servant.

[@raysantiago3750]

What a beautiful way of clearly explaining the Women Deacon's in the Body of Christ. 🏜️☝️😎👉📖

[@pam2viph]

first time I ever heard this - wonder when it was originally preached?

[@wallyceltic3905]

To me this is so simple. We know the holy spirit gives gifts to people upon their salvation. One of this gifts is the one to serve. You are going to tell me that this gift is going to be given only to men. Don't think so. Women are going to be recepients of such a gift not all of them but some. The problem that you see in the church is that some churches have put men deacons to teach the word of God and teaching is not permitted to women in the congregation. By doing so you then say women can't serve but that also is twisting things to favor the position you have on women not serving. But to me they can serve without the teaching part. And still you be in obedience with the word of God.

[@billybob-wx2re]

that's a deficient test for whether people should old offices. what about women that are gifted speakers? should they preach? no

[@wallyceltic3905]

Do you agree that the gift of service can be given to a woman? If so where is she suppose to serve. In the gas station. 😂

[@angloaust1575]

Nothing to prevent them hard to enforce in today's feminist culture The masculine God will judge!

[@kevinokief4191]

Heres the issue…..Christ is alive. He calls each of His childeren differently and that most surely i say to includes women. Christ does the choosing not His unprofitable servants

[@barrywilson4276]

Never a need for this. The answer is yes. If some say otherwise.shame them and reject them.

[@grasonicus]

If you ask women, they'll tell you they can be anything. But suggest to them that they be sock-darning, laundry-doing, cooking, child-rearing, sweeping, dusting, and floor-scrubbing mothers and housewives, like the dear Lord intended them to be, and they prolapse their uteri in rage. Just saying. 😄

[@pjo2386]

you are ----.....making wide generalisations of 'women' women are co-equal with man before God; women have their God given traits, and men have theirs; older godly women can teach the younger, and children; by child-bearing have huge spiritual/other responsibility

[@Pugilist928]

@@pjo2386 equal but with different roles. Leadership in the church and home is the role of a man.

[@pjo2386]

yes; God is right. and w/respect, keep em out of the front line in wars, they are a distraction; men united w/one goal; Men, lovingly take back the home and church - her roles are dif but equal in importance. church - even if u have to man handle them out of leadership, or leave and start afresh

[@rebornasdavid]

The bible is very clear how it feels about women. They can work in all the gifts of the spirit just as men can. But they are to be silent in church, learning in full submission. If they have a question about something they aren't to ask it in church even, they should wait till they get home and ask their husband. They are not allowed to teach or ever have authority over a man. What's the problem? Just listen to God and do as you're instructed. There's 168 hours in a week, God is saying if you're a woman then please be quiet for 3 or 4 hours while you're at church. The rest of the week is yours to go preach the good news, cast out demons and heal the sick. There's 144,000 people on the mount of olives with Jesus in the book of Revelation. They're all men. Why? Answer that, and you will answer why women should be silent, never preaching behind a pulpit. God bless.

[@notentitledtoyourownfacts2551]

What a shame. The same Greek word for women is also used as wives in many instances.

[@dawnkilby4854]

I have no problem with only men being pastors, deacons, etc.

[@TimothyC.84]

What about verse 12?

[@waynemiracle8928]

Touché! Your point is spot on here! I absolutely love Dr. MacArthur, but I simply disagree with his interpretation here!

[@TimothyC.84]

@@waynemiracle8928 Absolutely. Even some of the best pastors/preachers are not 100% correct.

[@FernandoDanko]

But since verse 12 doesn't apply for woman, this doesn't seems to invalidate the argument for woman deacons. In the other way, Clement of Alexandria, circa 200 AD, wrote about Romans 16:1-2: "even woman are instituted deacons in the church".

[@TimothyC.84]

@@FernandoDanko How? “Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[@TimothyC.84]

@@FernandoDanko All deacons are servants, but all servants are not deacons.

[@jperkins1269]

So women deacons don't need to be the wives of one husband. He dropped the verse in between there because they were never meant to be women deacons. Trying to justify something that is not biblical. In acts, seven men were chosen. Not seven people.

[@robmarshall956]

Yes just not in the pulpit.

[@kevinokief4191]

God does the choosing not his called and unfaithful

[@gsestream]

woman means congregation, or you, anyone. let God talk, you be silent. as commanded. God is your only teacher. not people.

[@MessengerManSteve]

Can a women become both choir and Deaconess

[@smithyveritas1750]

Agree 👏👏🙏

[@kevinokief4191]

There are many women leading in earthly church

[@edpierce8335]

Wrong, see comment below.

[@berniefynn6623]

reference to this is cultural, NOT biblical.

[@enercykapasa2492]

Paul was comparing the leadership of Deacons in their homes to that at church, if you say women should be deacons then you qualify them to be leaders at home also ...there the scriptures do not add up

[@user-iz8np3vv4i]

I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me. -excerpt Romans 16 NIV -words of Paul Men and women are equal before God. I suggest Judges 4 or my essay on Deborah.

[@user-iz8np3vv4i]

@Scribeintheink Actually incorrect. This and more is addressed in my informal free essay. God ruled Israel through Deborah, since she was a Judge. Read time: 12 minutes postable here

[@user-iz8np3vv4i]

@Scribeintheink It was a position at some point early on. Even those that persecuted the Christians knew that. I then thought it the more needful to get at the facts behind their statements. Therefore I placed two women, called “deaconesses,” under torture, but I found only a debased superstition carried to great lengths, so I postponed my examination, and immediately consulted you. -excerpt Pliny the Younger’s Letter to Emperor Trajan Regarding the Christians about 111 A.D.

[@xmurrcattx3498]

@@user-iz8np3vv4i This word of Paul I think makes it clear, and in fact, when Paul says "give her any help she may need from you" it is clear she may be asking for their service in her ministry - that's right, she has some authority over some service. Furthermore, she is the benefactor of many, including Paul, i.e. she's wealthy and a leader in her own regard. And to being "leaders at home", when has a woman _not_ been a leader at home? I read Proverbs 31 and I don't see some passive follower, waiting to be commanded of her husband.

[@michaelg4919]

@Raymond Globa any counterarguments? imo the text is clear. also, why is phoebe a servant *of the church* (which means it is the office of being a deacon, not merely a servant)?

[@jaredolinger3933]

Definitely clear… that men only serve the role. Phoebe being honored in a descriptive salutation isn’t the same as an unprecedented office being established…

[@michaelg4919]

@@jaredolinger3933 So why does Paul explicitly give instructions to women for deacons, but doesn't give instructions to elders wives (which is the higher office)? 1 Tim 3:11 *Women likewise*

[@jaredolinger3933]

@@michaelg4919 two reasons: 1) the lesser serves the greater. 2) Wives of Deacons would have had very direct roles in the ministry of the Deacons. They would see and know things about members that other people in the church wouldn’t (mercy ministries, finances, hurt etc.)

[@jaredolinger3933]

@@michaelg4919 if Paul wanted to institute a new office (female deacons) I gotta believe he would have given it more runway than one verse whiplashed in between verses clearly about men. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At the end of the day it doesn’t bother me that other churches do this. We all have stuff we’re wrong about. I just can’t stretch far enough to get on board.

[@michaelg4919]

@@jaredolinger3933 why don't wives of elders have responsibility? why doesn't Paul mention them when he explicitly calls elders to "having his children in submission" (1 tim 3:5), which was the duty of the wife 1 Tim 5:10, 14 and 2:15 (bearing of children meaning the upbringing of children)? the context in this passage seems to support the view I hold but you are right it is not as important as essential doctrines

[@mr.fiction1558]

A true shame that, just like MacArthur is a premillennial futurist and not a postmillennial partial-preterist that he is a complementarian and not a gendered pietist.

[@salero2118]

NOPE, NOT deacon, elders, pastors, bishops, presbyters, overseers, teachers of men in a class.

[@user-kk8gf9ul4j]

No

[@honahwikeepa2115]

Man carries seed.

[@fromthewrath2come]

Be careful to interpret scripture in appropriate context before applying to current situations. You should know better, we all learned it in seminary. Your stubborn adherence to literally is dividing the church that Christ died to birth.

[@raymondgloba6461]

Dear John Mc. Arthur, I,personally, cannot refrain from sincere thanks to you for biding your time and offering a hub of meaningful explications in aiding the understanding of Biblical passages and concepts. Yet as of this particular case, you appear to do the very contrary. That is, to "correct" The Holy Spirit by your loose and voluntary conjecture which you desire to present as a piece of Truth and ascribing as though it was genuinely meant in the Scripture. Let me kindly remind you, that THE TRUE SCRIPTURE was GENUINELY breathed by The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit needs neither correction nor assistance from those who regard themselves as ministers. What The Holy Spirit INDEED requires from those who think themselves to be ministers is OBEDIENCE and STRONG COMMITMENT, and nothing else besides. Therefore it would be great indeed if you stopped twisting the Scriptures to the Audience but go ahead. to further preach The Word faithfully and devotion-bent, exactly as His ministers should. Without creating confusion and obfuscation among the Audience.

[@jaynova1776]

Your arrogance is palpable. The KJV is not original "God breathed" scripture. It is a translation like any other. The scholars of the 15s and 1600s, as good as they were, did not know as much about Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic as we do today. The KJV gets this passage wrong. Anyone with a Greek lexicon can see that. Stop worshipping a version of the Bible. You don't speak KJV dialect in your every day life, though I wish KJV-only types would), so why do you insist on reading an ancient dialect of English that you do not speak? And what would the KJV sound like if translated into Spanish, or Russian, or German, would the translators have to utilize a 500 year old dialect from each of those languages as well? MacArthur is not "correcting" the Holy Spirit, he is correcting the King James scholars. There's a difference. They were men, as fallible as any other. The world is weary of the false righteousness of the KJV-only pseudo-christians. Your preferred version confuses new converts with its inability to speak in the common tongue. But you revel in the "mystery" of this failure to communicate because it makes you feel more religious. You are no different than the old Catholic religicrats that lorded over the people with their Latin Vulgate Bible which most of their English speaking audience could not read.

[@raymondgloba6461]

@@jaynova1776 Who or what makes you so certain I quote the King James Version, dear mate? Is KJV the crown jewel of Planet Earth? If you knew that, you would have been more sober and cautious in speaking your present level of your cognisance and mentality. You also would likewise have known with reasonable luminous surety that the Apostle Paul's behests were neither self-puffed, nor personal. They came purely from God, nowhere else . Because, unlike your lovely self, Paul the Apostle always consulted God first before speaking his mind or giving detailed instructions. That said, , be so kind to educate yourself first before ushering puffed up, flaunting, swanky, yet baseless and pointless perorations. Or, to pick up a more becoming idea, better ask God for wisdom . End of story, mate

[@raymondgloba6461]

@@jaynova1776 P.S. For your record, it's not the KJV that I quote or bring up to overt attention to rectify things up. The KJV indeed has got not a few flaws, some of them are brewing even to the point of sheer blasphemy. On top of this, alongside the genuine Textus Receptus text, the KJV used also passages from Latin Vulgate and The 1582 Jesuit Douay-Rhymes bible which, of course, precipitated in lowering its value standards. The Bible I apply and quote is The Geneva Bible which is topnotch accurate God-inspired translation. Because, unlike the King James Version, whose making was motivated and inspired by the whims and despotic incentives of King James I with the specific aim to suppress this Scripture , this specific God-inspired, God-blessed Geneva Bible and its educative footnotes ignited flames of flamboyant spiritual, intellectual and social enlightenment in folks from diverse walks of life back then, in 16, 17, 18-th centuries, and this marvellous piece of Scripture keeps doing this same shocking great job of enlightenment, providing valuable assistance and inspiration to as many folks nowadays, serving as tremendous eye-opener and education-imparting tool.

[@jaynova1776]

​@@raymondgloba6461 the Geneva bible is no more inspired by God than any other translation. And you write like an average schmo who's trying to sound smart by the overuse of a thesaurus. Is English your second language or did you run everything through Google translate?

[@raymondgloba6461]

@@jaynova1776 If you are a child of God (or, at least, gather yourself to be as one), you should ask God first before hammering out Messages which make even fools look like Ph.D. Doctors in comparison with you. Self-arrogance is an ocean length worse than foolishness. Please, remember this and put your act together if you want to be a person who puts her money where her mouth is

[@webstar37]

So, everywhere we find the personal pronoun Wife / Wives, ( Wife 370 times & Wives 122 times ) in the NT it is wrong, so NO Wives in the NT, just women, Also you will note that all personal pronouns used for qualifications, are all in the "masculine" tense, he, him, husband, for Bishops ( Pastors, / Shepherds ) and Deacons, John MacArthur is a heretic, and False Teacher..... PERIOD, and the LORD said, there will be many False Teachers and Brothers, who sneak in the gatherings of the Body of Believers, The Church , 2 Peter 2:1 // 2 Corinthians 11: 26 and Galatians 2:4 , also we have in Holy Scripture in the NT, Paul that great Apostle and Servant of Jesus Christ, is given to Write ; 1 Timothy 2: 11 - 13 ; V.11 "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection"; V.12 "But I suffer not ( allow not ) a women to teach; nor to usurp ( have, be given ) authority over the man; but to be in silence". V.13, For Adam was first formed, then Eve ( the women )." And then there is this; 1 Corinthians 14: 34,35 "Let your women keep silence in the Churches, for it is NOT permitted unto them to speak, but they are COMMANDED to be under obedience, as also saith the law". V.35 "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a SHAME for women to speak in the Church. THE WORD OF THE LORD GOD.!!! God said it that settles it !!!

[@trojanmusic7859]

U don't understand the video. J Mac is a faithful pastor. Watch his message on women pastors

[@davidprice9792]

This whole thing seems completely different to everything I have heard from this preacher. Like it is a bad joke. What does he do with verse 12?

[@michelewoods1950]

He is not talking about woman preaching in the pulpit

[@jaynova1776]

Correct, the Koine Greek has no plural for "wife." If you have a problem with that, take it up with the Greeks. It is no doubt because ancient Greek culture did not allow men to be married to more than one wife. If you had a group of men and wanted to use plural-possessive to talk about their "wives" (as we have in English) you would say, "Their women," and the ancient Greek would know exactly what you meant.

[@webstar37]

@@trojanmusic7859 I heard your "J Mac" claim that there was nothing special about the blood of Jesus Christ, and that my Friend is blasphemy at its core, its ALL about the blood of Jesus Christ, it was HIS blood spilled at Calvary for the remission of our sins, and for your "J Mac" to say the blood of Jesus Christ, has no significance, speaks volumes to his spiritual. condition. end of debate. ,

[@josephbachota]

I'm actually very surprised by this, but in a good way. I had no idea Pastor John Macarthur was in favor of female deacons. So much in fact, he exegeted the text in order of being in favor of it. I agree with him, I just didn't know he believed that. Good stuff.

[@gabrielhalston6726]

What may not be known to many is that Dr. MacArthur is a Greek scholar. His exegesis of God's word in his preaching is one of the dearest things I love about him for 50 years now because he faithfully and diligently preaches what God says and not his own opinion. I'm glad you agree with him on this issue.

[@JV-jq4dt]

Is he exegeting the text in order to be in favor of it or is he just obeying the text?

[@gabrielhalston6726]

@@JV-jq4dt Huh? There's no need to cast a shadow upon JM's motive for explaining this text. He's explicitly exegeting the text of Scripture as it is written in the original Koine Greek.

[@JV-jq4dt]

@@gabrielhalston6726 i am not questioning JM's motive, but i have a problem with the way the comment is written. A lot of pastors are in favor of female pastors and therefore exegete certain texts in favor of it.

[@josephbachota]

@@JV-jq4dt it could be both

[@timothymaffei82]

The problem with religious people Like John, they all think only they have the right religion, but Paul who wrote many scriptures, called his religion and degrees DUNG, worthless. Study the word for yourselves, that is the only way to have a true relationship with GOD.. 2 Timothy 2:15. You should only be a babe in Christ and given the milk of the word for a short while. The book of Hebrews 5:12 says, by now you should be teachers, you need milk... And therefore you are carried away with every wind of doctrine, because all these religious leaders think they are right and everyone else is wrong. PRIDE?? Ephesians 4:14.

[@kennethstandridge1205]

Lol good try.

[@kennethstandridge1205]

Paul called his belief of outward righteousness and lack of ability to keep the laws he knew so well and most of all, all of his accolades and accomplishments to be dung, at the expense of knowing Christ (how about using a little context). He was not calling the knowledge of how to properly read and understand the word dung. What you are doing is the exact reason people twist the Bible to fit their wants. You took a few passages out of context and made no sense. However I do disagree with Mcarthur on this passage because of what verse 12 says. Still does not rule put the errors you made as well.

[@johnflorio3576]

No.

[@bettyfraser3960]

😔 men trying to tell God who He can use. What about Deborah in the old testament? Along with other women. N.T. as well. People are going to hell, children are abused, drug addiction, plus killing thousands, teaching transgender, baal worship in the church and outside of the church. 🤔 as the leaders Argue, argue, argue - over the role of women in the church! While this generation needs the Word of God. The 5 fold ministry (some) are worried about women preaching Christ. Perhaps, we need a few "Jael" Heber wife, around. Read - Philippines chapter 1. Judges 4: 21 Jesus gave us a promise: if we lift up His name "He will draw on men unto Him.

[@adrianpasillas3832]

But deacon do not have authority unless given by the overseer...READ and STUDY...

[@MountCarmel007]

Watch "About the Fourth Commandment" by Doug Bachelor

[@pjo2386]

he is in the SDA - SDA is a legalistic cult - no offence; sabbatarianism is a snare

[@pjo2386]

Mrs White, SDA co founder, made false prophesies; inc giving wrong date of Christ;s return

[@SoChristministries]

@@pjo2386 give me a link to your source. SDA are the only ones who still take the bible serious

[@grasonicus]

@@pjo2386 If you read Exodus 20, you'll see the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Bible that is close to a verbatim statement from God, and now you want to drop it. You want to be able to do as you please, and embrace the 'the law has been nailed to the cross' slogan of those who feel as you do. Why not go the whole way? Become an atheist and do as you please.

[@grasonicus]

@@pjo2386 True, but that doesn't invalidate the Bible.

[@erinmeggik391]

Christ is the Only expert on scripture not commentators like John McArthur. Bible and Verses>> 2 Peter 1:20 KJV (Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.) Psalms 118:8-9 KJV;🙏

[@robmarshall956]

So you are saying women shouldn’t be deacons ? We know that God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership-in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5) though just not men and from the pulpit.

[@pjo2386]

@@robmarshall956 true

[@robmarshall956]

@@kennethnealKOGE no it’s clear God has given no instruction that women can’t be deacons in the church, men and women of all ages have taken their God-ordained places and lived according to “thus says the LORD,” then there is a wonderful balance between the genders. That balance is what God began with, and it is what He will end with. There is an inordinate amount of attention paid to the various products of sin and not to the root of it. It is only when there is personal reconciliation with God through the Lord Jesus Christ that we find true equality. “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free” (John 8:32). It is also very important to understand that the Bible’s ascribing different roles to men and women does not constitute sexism. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God expects men to take the leadership role in the church and the home. Does this make women inferior? Absolutely not. Scripture does not give much support to the idea of women serving as deacons, but it does not necessarily disqualify them, either. Some churches have instituted the office of deaconess, but most differentiate it from the office of deacon. If a church does institute the position of deaconess, the church leadership should ensure that the deaconess is in submission to the restrictions Paul places on the ministry of women in other passages (such as 1 Timothy 2:11-12), just as all leadership is to be in submission to the church authority structure and ultimately to our supreme authority, Christ Jesus.

[@robmarshall956]

@@kennethnealKOGE deary me ) The most important book in the OT is Genesis, in it we discover what God is like, how he created the world, how he relates to humanity, and what happened at the beginning. Genesis is the foundation on which Christian doctrine is built. This is certainly true when we come to 1 Timothy 2:11-15. Here we find Paul explaining his commands concerning a women's activity in the Christian gathering. His reason for not permitting women to teach or exercise authority over a man arises out of the account of creation and the fall. So before piecing together Paul's argument, one must look at the Genesis account. 1. In Genesis 1:28:28 "man" is made to rule the earth and all the creatures in it. Explain whether this refers to the male alone, or the male and the female ? Clearly v 26 refers to male n female. 2. So why was women created ? Gen 2:15-25. To compliment her man, neither stronger or weaker, a unity becoming one flesh. 3. So describe the authority relationship between God, Adam, the woman, and the rest of creation ? God created Adam then eve as Adams helper and both to rule over creation. 4. There are 3 cases of authority being overthrown in the passage Gen 3:1-19 And 3 sets of consequences, what are they ? A. Serpent is out of order and deceitful, consequences are enmity between satan n God, so therefore God will provide a head crusher. B) eve convinces Adam to eat the apple, consequence is childbearing pains, sorrow and husband will rule over you. C) Adam should have submitted to Gods Authority, consequences- he has to work hard to provide, hence much joy is removed. 5. So then read 1 Tim 2:11-15. Clearly man and women are EQUAL though have DIFFERENT qualities, but both are saved in the same way as they persevere in their faith to carry out the Lords calling in their life, one example being the unique of women in childbearing. 6. so what is the basis for Paul's command ? Creation ordinance >eternal principles>headship>submission within a church. Clearly the argument in 1 Timothy has 3 threads that have been picked up by Paul from Genesis: firstness, deception and the difficulties of childbirth. 1. Firstness v13 Paul says women have the position they do because Adam was formed first. "Firstness often carries connotations of authority in scripture, as it does in our own use of language eg prime minister simply means the "first minister". So what can be said is there is an order to creation, God could have created Adam simultaneously, but he didn't. He created Eve for Adam. She was created to be mans "helper" and was made perfectly suitable for the task. This is absolutely key to understanding her relationship to Adam. 2. Deception v 14 Gen 3:13 records the woman confessing "the serpent deceived me, and I ate" Adam is clearly not described as being deceived: RATHER, his sin is that he "listened to the voice of his wife and ate of the tree" 3:17.

[@robmarshall956]

@@kennethnealKOGE So why is eves deception significant? Well Eve was deceived by one of the animals that God had made, OVER whom she was meant to be in dominion, refer to Gen 1:26:28. This was why she "became a sinner"-not because she was silly or gullible enough to be fooled, but Because SHE WAS DECEIVED into overturning the good order that God had created. Instead of ruling the snake under God, she listened to and Obeyed the snake, attempted to become like God and then lead her husband to do the same. Sooo as God pronounces judgment in Gen 3, the overturned order is emphasised in the way he deals first with the serpent, then with the woman and then with man. In the cursed and FALLEN world, the good order of chapter 2 becomes distorted and bitter- the serpent will attack the woman's offspring and be crushed under his heel; the woman will attempt to master the man, but he will be dominated by him instead; and the man, rather than ruling and tending a bountiful garden, will gain his food by sweat from a hostile earth. There is an order to Gods creation; there is a structure to the relationships between men and women that is built into the very fabric of things. God made Adam first and Eve to be his helper, and both to rule over the rest of the creation. The very essence of Adam and Eves sin was their overturning of this order yet here many are trying to do just that again ????? So before looking at the 3rd theme in Genesis (childbirth) review the first 2. Obviously when one compares Gen 2-3 with 1 Timothy 2, the relationship between the two passages is not difficult to see. Women are being warned NOT to upset the order of creation by usurping authority in the manner that Eve did. What we find more difficult to understand is why this should be expressed through teaching in the church, and what it is about teaching that makes Paul single it out as the authority issue, so do women have to be utterly silent and not say a word in Christian gatherings ?? The answer to that rests in our understanding of what "teaching" is. People tend to think of teaching as merely an intellectual activity- imparting knowledge or giving instruction to someone. However, in the Bible and indeed in other fields as well, teaching involves a special type of relationship between the teacher and the student. Christian teaching involves authority. The teacher moulds the life of the taught: the teacher is given the privilege and responsibility of guiding, informing, persuading, changing and leading. This is why teaching and authority are so closely tied together in 1 Tim 2:12. To be in a teaching relationship with someone is to be exercising some sort of Authority over him or her. Under Christ's authority, and through his word to us in 1 Tim 2:11-12, we are told that woman ought not to teach or have this authority over men. Teaching a man is wrong because by teaching him, the woman enters into a relationship of authority over him. By teaching the man, the woman is falling into Eve's error- turning the order of creation upside down. Teaching is the flip side of learning "quietly with all submissiveness" v11. Eve's sin involved overturning the order of creation and teaching her husband !!. Similarly, Adams sin came from listening to his wife in the sense of heeding and following her instructions. He allowed himself to be taught by her, thereby putting himself under her authority and reversing Gods good ordering of creation.

[@user-ut6lm7nv4q]

Another blasphemous errors calling women a Deacon.

[@jeffmarcuse6450]

So it's culture. They can be deacons.

[@johnIII8211]

It’s culture - explain?

[@pjo2386]

a deacon is one who waits at tables; whatever, a woman should not lead or teach men

[@marksykes5434]

There isn’t a god !

[@garyjones8396]

Fool.

[@marksykes5434]

@@garyjones8396 Prove it !

[@frankielee5623]

John Macarthur has yet to repent of his most serious sins, and yet touches on many minor sins. Those who help him get away from his terrible sins and support him in committing the most wicked sins surely should be punished too. He slanders Charismatic Christians and blasphemed God's Holy Spirit. As a blasphemer of God, like John Calvin and Reformed Chruch denominations in past times, is, no wonder our Evangelical Leader John Wesley called out John Calvin as that Idiot of 15-century Theologian, a Blasphemer of God.

[@thedebatefinisher..5521]

McArthur hasn't blasphemed the holy spirit of God.. Gods word tells us to call them charismatic liars out.. they are liars.. they lie on Gods name.. we believe God heals we believe God blesses.. but God does not heal people the way they teach it.. God does heal for a fact.. God heals.. but they lie about how God heals.. God does not heal you just because you gave more money.. God heals because you asked him with faith, and it was his will to do so.. of it isn't Gods will to heal a man, then the man will not be healed.. because God already planned all this before creation wether your healing will come or not.. so we can't pray and change Gods mind. That means Gods plan wasn't as good as yours so he changed his mind...and we can't change his mind from what he already has done since before creation.. God heals you because it's his will.. if it's not GODS will to heal you, then you will not be healed.. this is what we are trying our best to get people to understand.. your healing or miracle or blessing does not come from offering or giving money.. it come from your prayers in faith that Gods will is to heal you.. they are not teaching this truth... they are lying in Gods name and will be punishment beyond our dreams for lying on God and lying in his name.. we all believe God heals and blesses.. but bible is very clear about how.. and it's through your prayer, having faith, that God's will is to heal you.. of it is his will then you get healed.. if it's not GODS will and plan then no. You do not get healed.. we only trying to warn that we Believe God blesses and we believe God heals, but they are lying to the people about God God heals and blesses.. it's not about giving more money to get blessed with more money or be healed because you gave more money.. that's a lie from hell..

[@colinmeehan791]

Please expand.

[@fredericklaudamoah-darko7530]

Please expand. I don't understand what you mean. what sins are you talking about and did he blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

[@thedebatefinisher..5521]

@@fredericklaudamoah-darko7530 amen.. ain't no way McArthur has blaspheme the holy spirit.. if a man blasphemy Gods holy spirit, that man will no longer care to even teach about sin.. McArthur would not teach sin and hell if he had blaspheme the holy spirit.. here's a way to know, for those who don't understand how someone blaspheme against Gods holy spirit, ok.. no man can blaspheme the holy spirit at all, if it's not the holy spirit in which he is referring too.. think about that.. they sat people like me and you are blaspheme against the holy spirit, but that's not true.. because that's NOT the holy spirit Making these people fall down and get hurt.. understanding that we all have to be very careful in such.. because holy spirit does jump on us.. what people lack knowledge of, is that the holy spirit doesn't act in a violent way.. Gods holy spirit doesn't cause people to fall on ground and shake violently.. holy spirit acts in a loving way, convicting way.. it makes some cry, some may run, some may shout.. but.. those who fall to the ground and shake violently.. better read scripture.. scripture says.. THEY ARE POSSESSED BY DEMON SPIRIT AND FALL TO THE GROUND FOAMING OUT OF THE MOUTH.. this scripture by itself proves that the holy spirit is not whom John McArthur has blasphemed.. you can't blaspheme the holy spirit if it's not in that man who is jerking and falling down.. those who fall and shake need the real holy spirit to deliver them of that demon.. and these preacher's will say, to the person who fell down shaking, the holy spirit is delivering that devil out of you right now in the name of Jesus christ.. and this is DECIEVING on a scale so large we can't even begin to think of.. these preacher's and those who follow them are in danger of hell fire for eternity.. because they look over 1 passage of scripture that warns them in detail that they will burn in hell for teaching about casting out demons, and teaching about healing and miracles being performed by these preacher's.. because God doesn't heal people according to how much money they give.. God does not performer miracles because of the money they give. God heals and does miracles when we pray in full faith that Gods will to be done and if it's his own will to heal. Then he heals us.. If it is not Gods will to heal or do the miracles, then he does not heal us and he does no miracle..even if we pray for it.. we know God does do miracles and God really does heal.. but. He warns us about falsely teaching these things.. God heals and he does miracles.. but God warns us that he doesn't do these thing in the way they teaching it.. he tells us.. it's his will or not.. it's not because the preacher said you are healed.. it's because God said so or didn't say so.. remember this verse of scripture next time someone says these preacher's are of God... because bible says... NOT EVERYONE WHO SAYS LORD, LORD, WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.. these preacher's will say.. DEAR LORD HAVE I NOT CAST OUT DEMONS IN YOUR NAME.. HAVE I NOT PROPHECIED IN YOUR NAME LORD, HAVE I NOT DONE, ALL THESE THINGS, IN YOUR NAME.... GOD SAYS TO THEM... DEPART FROM ME, YOUR WORKER OF INIQUITY/EVIL FOR I HAVE NEVER KNEW YOU.. brother they are going to be cast into the lake of fire for these teachings.. we know demons and healing and miracles and blessing are real.. but.. the gospel of Jesus christ is about teaching men how to avoid hell and be saved, then God will deliver such evil spirit out of the man through the gospel and prayer and laying hands in faith in Gods will to do so.. Bible even says in the last days.. miracles and healing will be real and it will happen in front of their own eyes, and they will believe it, because it happens in front of them.. but God warns us that the healing and miracles that they see in front of their eyes are not of God but they are from the devil.. the healing and miracles will become real in the last days and happen in front of them. DECIEVING MANY including the elect if possible... so God tells is in the last days, devil will do miracles and healing and people will think it's of God.. that's why God tells and warns us to read and understand his word, or you will be decieved in the last days.. I pray for these people.. because they think this is of God all because the preacher's have told them its true... God bless you brother..

[@michelewoods1950]

Frankie, Your decernment is in serious trouble, I went through your scriptures that your trying to match up and you my friend are confused, if you could do 1% of the work John has done around the world Our Lord would put you there, but you have elected your self as a fault finder, John does not believe in woman in the pulpit, but deacons there is no doubt and if you have read all of the NT in Hebrew and Greek and know how to put them in there proper use, you wouldn't be saying what your saying - The Bible has 66 books but they are knitted together and tell the story and uncover Our Lord's thoughts, you can not pick out one scripture and claim it without the setting, background, geography and the PROPHECIES at appointed times, at appointed times scriptures pertain differently, and if you don't understand it you need to ask yourself why?? First and foremost pray for decernment spiritual

[@dannpurvis]

wow! I have once again learn do not place anybody close to a pinnacle or a pedestal. Everything I’ve heard Pastor, MacArthur preacher teacher has been very accurate in truth and most of the time in the spirit. However, this time I can say he is not in truth or spirit. I thought a recent comment that somebody made about him proclaiming women deacons might’ve been a mistake. Nope. I still listen to John because like I said he has a lot of truth. this is the biggest mistake. I’ve heard him say. What is astounding to me? This is how this Ahab/Jezebel spirit complex is taking over Christianity and will lead to the destruction of many souls. i’m really surprised. Very very surprised. I can’t say I’m disappointed though. Man on earth has all the truth. And if he did and did not have the spirit of the Lord, he’s probably Satan. I praise God for John stitching, but he could not be more wrong in this. There are some things you debate, but there are none that you change the meaning on.

[@stephm5877]

Sounds like you're having trouble with what God's Word says due to your pride.

[@dannpurvis]

@@stephm5877 what spirit are you in when you say that? Like I said, don’t put your faith in a man…or woman. Trust in God the father, the Lord and the Holy Spirit. Then you may see the truth. Blind obedience to a man or institution is what crucified our Lord. It is that spirit that has killed millions…in the name of God! Saul followed blindly until Jesus made him completely blind until he humbled himself and found one of his intended victims. Pride cometh before a fall. And in my 63 years it (pride) always seems to be linked to some doctrine of man or devils.

[@stephm5877]

@dannpurvis God's Word says what it says. Could it be the meaning was not changed, but you learned it wrong?

[@dannpurvis]

@@stephm5877 the short answer is nope. But to elaborate, the Word and its intent match up and are very clear. These clear directions start in Genesis and carry to varying degrees through out most of the Bible. It amazes me that some (not all) of my brothers and sisters cannot see it. It is painfully obvious to some. I truly believe that for whatever reason they can’t is because God will not let them. I agree with your statement about pride but it applies to those that don’t want to or can’t see what is very clear instructions, examples and intent.

[@stephm5877]

@dannpurvis you say a lot without actually saying anything. Are you saying you believe only men can be deacons? That's not what the Bible says.