Can you just use the scale to solo? (modes obsolete?)

Do you need to think about modes to solo and sound good? When you're playing, you shouldn't be thinking about anything, but in the practice room: what do you really need to know to shred? Watch the video and learn when modes are important to know, when the scale will suffice, and the difference in sound between the macro: scale approach versus the micro: chord-by-chord mode mindset. Regardless of your knowledge and experience, this video will shed light on a seldom addressed topic of how to think about scales and modes, as opposed to only the surface level theory and technique information.
(shout out to all the swifties, we consulted Taylor Swift and her beautiful composition in this one)
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#guitar #lesson #solo #taylorswift

[@aleksandardojcinovic1002]

Best (and coolest) guitar educational content on youtube! For freaking free!!!!! Thanks!

[@marbinmusic]

Tell your friends and enemies! Thank you

[@eus8964]

Beautifully explained! I’ve “known” most of the stuff presented in the video for some time now. How the modes “modify” the major scale, the importance of tonic in the key and how everything relates to it, and the effects/emotions of different intervals etc. But I’m still trying to fully wrap my head around how to use modes at a “thoughtless” level- this video and channel have helped me a lot. Thank you!

[@JesseCalhoun-jo2uc]

Amazing lesson. Thank you for giving of yourself in this way.

[@marbinmusic]

Thanks for watching, glad you liked it.

[@michaelcreel106]

The example at the end really made the point.

[@DannyHood-j]

This is great. I shouldve known this.

[@gordoncrmn]

Great lesson Danni. Is why I say your one of the best teachers and players on KZbin

[@marbinmusic]

You rock!

[@musec07]

When playing a song with no key changes, could also just study the importance of hitting chord tones within one scale, seems an easier approach

[@marbinmusic]

Right, at that point you are seeing the different chord tones as roots / anchors within the scale which pretty much translates to knowing the modes.

[@tracebivens6188]

I spent like 15 years thinking I was missing something super important about modes bc I only took one semester of jazz and I kept seeing people talking about playing different modes over different chords. I had it in my head that it was somehow involved with the hipper outside sounds I associate with jazz cats that actually know their shit. About six months ago I realized that it’s just the above and I’m still salty about it. If my jazz teacher had just given me a pass on all the memorization and just been willing to meet me where I was I think I would have stuck with it and ended up much farther along in my playing much faster

[@nicksalvatore5717]

@@marbinmusicthis is my approach, but I just got started with improvisation

[@PaulDuggan]

My brain is leaking out of my ears. I feel like I just opened the wrong cupboard.

[@marbinmusic]

I've never had my brain liquify when I've looked for plates and found cups instead. What are in your cupboards, horrible truth unfit for man's eyes?

[@PaulDuggan]

@@marbinmusic I feel like I opened a cupboard and saw the inside of the refrigerator from Ghostbusters. Sorry. Wrong class!

[@ldlework]

@marbinmusic What confuses me about this video is, all the modes are just cyclical rotations of the associated major/ionian. All the associated modes of C ionian consist of the same exact notes. What changes is the function of each note. A simplified way to say it is that in each mode of C, you change which note you consider the tonic. In *this* sense, you can just use the scale (the same exact shape on the fretboard), but you change where the gravity is and how you play it.

[@ldlework]

Sorry, I see another commentor made the same point and you already replied.

[@marbinmusic]

It’s a system of teaching yourself how to hear things against root notes and making sense of what you are hearing. I suspect that people that criticise the modal system haven’t spent enough time pondering it’s benefits

[@ldlework]

@@marbinmusic I was less critiquing modes and more just pointing out that indeed all the modes are the same set of notes / scale shape. So even if you do engage with modes, in some sense, you're still just playing the scale. Thanks for the good video.

[@Local-Bus]

Very informative, although i was hoping for more demonstration of the contrast when the chords are all in the same key

[@DannyHood-j]

Fmaj7, G7, G min7, G flat7, Fmaj7. How come G7 chord (C# is the 4th note) normally it’s C note. Yet when you play 3 ,4, 5 melody notes starting from F maj7 melody notes are A, B flat, C. Then G7 notes are B, C# and D, it works. What I’m trying to say is it sounds good, playing C# with G7 chord. I don’t understand why natural (C note) doesn’t work over G7 chord in this case

[@_conchobhar_]

because it interacts with the third. C and B are a half step away from eachother the C interacts with what gives a chord its quality (the third) the function of the chord becomes cloudy and out of place. playing the C# would be adding the #11 or playing G lydian over G7, even better you can do lydian dominant if you add a b7

[@MarkSchoonmaker]

Question. If the bass note dictates the chord of the moment, like on Ipanema, a bass player plays Gb instead of C, and I play some type of Gb7 “scale” like Db mm, isn’t that going to sound more “in” than if I play Db mm over a C bass note? I saw Jimmy Bruno argue that Gb7 over Gb7 was white chalk on a white chalk board whereas a C triad over Gb made G the b9, C the #11, and E the b7. And you never know what the bass player is going to play. Interested in your thoughts on this.

[@marbinmusic]

You are conflating 2 things here, voicings and modes. If you play Db mm and the bassist is playing Gb you are in fact making a Gb Lydian dominant sound and if you use the same parent scale you are playing a C altered sound. Both have their own sound and are equally in to my ear. When you play over a C bass note and you use Gb major triad you get the b2 #4 b7 which is a very modern sounding bunch of notes to play from Altered. If you play over a Gb root and you use Db mm you don’t have a C major triad but you can use C augmented which will give you the 2 #4 and b7 from Gb lydian dominant. I think what Bruno meant was that you should find ways to grab the tensions from the mode as opposed to chord tones. Substitutions are literally ways of memorizing groups of tensions in chunks that are derived from the mode (which is the parents scale against a bass note)

[@michaelstrong4956]

I'll say, I think this is the easiest way to understand a lesson, with regards to the modes.

[@marbinmusic]

Glad it made sense. Thanks for tuning in

[@terrapin323]

Random but it's cool that you can pluck chords while holding a pick and picking the bass note (6:30), I've been messing with different ways of comping/fingerstyling while holding a pick and it's not clear which one is the best

[@nicksalvatore5717]

It’s called hybrid picking, think of your pick as your thumb, your middle as your index, and your ring finger as your middle finger (as analogs of your normal fingerpicking)

[@terrapin323]

@@nicksalvatore5717 you can also tuck the pick in between your pointer and middle. This still allows fingerpick with the pointer. Holdsworth doesn't do that, he folds the pick in the pointer finger, which means you dont get the pointer on chords. Unless he puts the pick down (as in the comping layer on his tracks?). You can also avoid using the thumb and still play 4 note chords. I started using thumb-pointer traviss picking as a kid which means I had new skills to learn in fusion.

[@sega62s]

it’s harmony 101, but remember you “bird brain”, lots of musicians have no knowledge of harmony BUT lots of practice, a good earring and taste. Theory is really good for professional musicians who needs to read a chart , harmony is good for composer , it’s a faster way to compose , but remember music comes from the ears and soul first and lots of practice

[@marbinmusic]

Nah

[@sega62s]

@@marbinmusicWes did 😂 and some musicians from Zappa, and Mike Rutherford,Alex Lifeson, Gilmour…..paul mccartney, MONK

[@jasonkeaton5140]

Excellent

[@saxofonistacr]

I don't know if modes make any sense for guitar players, for sax players if you are playing tonal music modes don't help much. It is important to play over the changes but you dont need modes for that if you just know the parent scale. Also the whole mode thing gets obsolete if you are not starting from the root of the mode. If you are playing a song that goes C Am Dm G7 , you only need to know the C major scale. You get no benefits in thinking C ionian A eolean D dorian G mixolidyan. You certainly get a lot out of knowing the arpegios and not just runing C ionian up and down. and understanding that you are playing over different chords. But I see no point on thinking of G mixolidian when you are playing over G7, what if you start your phrase from the 3th of G? would you be thinking on B locrian? or if you start on the fifth of G7, do you think D dorian? Again most people that talks about modes are guitar players, maybe it helps to think like that because of how you need to put your fingers on the notes. But if it is not for a mechanical thing I see no point for playing tonal music. It is true that playing over a song like Garota de Ipanema it is harder, you are usually fine if you still try to simplify it. I Really don't like lydian dominant for V7/V

[@marbinmusic]

@@saxofonistacr modes give names for the sounds being made in the moment. they are created by playing a parent scale against a part of itself aka a bass note. What you say is false, Danny Markovitch (the saxophone player in Marbin) thinks and talks about modes all the time since they are the truth and the way. Understanding modes give you the ability to categorise each note in a scale structure in a way that related to the sound it is used over. Not only does it let you know what will sound right based on the chord function, it will also show you where the avoid notes are once you understand some basic principles. Now please go stand on the corner.

[@saxofonistacr]

@@marbinmusic Yes, there are many other musicians that talk and use modes, it is way more with guitar players. I understand modes, I just don't think is very beneficial to think in terms of modes for tonal music. Most of the musicians I like didn´t think in those terms. You can hear Jerry Bergonzi talk forever about modes and permutations, and patterns, and rythmic displacement Does he knows that stuff. No doubt, Does much people relate to his music? NO There are many great grand masters that played music for people that never thought on those terms, they just knew tonality, chords and basic scales and made music people wanted to listen too. It is proven modes is not the ONLY way, and I argue is not the BEST way to get started

[@bassofspades500]

I'll never understand all these anti modes people.. What's wrong with having more musical information ? It is literally a deeper understanding of the tonality.

[@marceli155]

you need modes for 100 % !! Why ? If you see Dmi7 you never know what key is it ! it is 3 mode of Bbma7 or 2 mode Cmaj7 and playing around these two chords is different that is why we need modes !! my friend !

[@marbinmusic]

Very true.

[@saxofonistacr]

That is why you don't need modes, you need to know harmonic context, and if you know that you already know the notes you need to use. If you are going to use the corresponding mode for the harmonic function you need to know the key you are in. If you know that, you know the seven notes you need to use. Modes will help you if you want to play modal. If you want to know what notes you need to play on a IIm7 on a IIIm7 on IVm7 on IVmaj7 on V7 or a VII half dim7 you already have your answer. you play the notes of the key signature.

[@marbinmusic]

@@saxofonistacr if those seven chord functions are as deep as you are going to go with improvisation I can see why you’d think it’s redundant but I see it as training wheels on the way to more complex harmony

[@saxofonistacr]

@@marbinmusic Im responding to a person that is talking about needing modes for knowing the appropriate notes of a chord in a tonal context

[@shaharbar]

Oh oh, did Nick get booted, was he chastised for his gonzo style? Very restrained editing! Thanks for the lesson gever! UPDATE: Nevermind, LOL!

[@chriswrighton5162]

Pardon me Maestro but why is I=F at 0.40? Great content btw. :-)

[@marbinmusic]

@@chriswrighton5162 the idea is to teach yourself how to think of diatonic changes as a series of moving 1s

[@Local-Bus]

​​@@marbinmusicwha wha what? I guess I missed that lesson. F=1 C=V right? I understand adding the III chord before the VI to create a mini II-V for example but afraid I'm lost here

[@chriswrighton5162]

@@Local-Bus I think I geddit now. The key is C here. As we move between the diatonic chords the maestro wants us to TEMPORARILY think of EACH of these as the I chord and not just C the whole time so that the flavor of each chord/mode can come out. So yes F is the IV chord of C, but the TS progression starts on F and so F is temporarily the I chord, before G in turn becomes the I chord etc etc. Did I get this right Maestro?!

[@marbinmusic]

Looks like that was a typo, it should say F=IV

[@dadudezpr]

Wowwww

[@sanpit]

❤

[@marbinmusic]

❤️❤️

[@alexproh3826]

Modes are gud. BuT cAn yOu JuST pLaY wItTh SOUL😮😂🎉🎉 OR NOT?😏🥺🥺

[@ScottM65]

I'm a bird brain. Guilty as charged!😀

[@joelfehrman6097]

I have a birdbrain

[@GloeJassie]

at 5:30, I thought that sounded good, you have the root as whatever, and then you tapped on a good "new" note, lower, and almost clashing with the higher note. That sounds like a proper transition to me.

[@marbinmusic]

That ended up making a G7sus sound, which is nice if that's the context. If you heard the C against the chord's 3rd (B) it would be an aural cheese grater

[@GloeJassie]

@@marbinmusic I don't doubt for a second that you are right, but last year I realized that I have been holding my self back for 20 years because I am not into scales and stuff. I let all that stuff go, and let my self experiment, and yea its not perfect, but i understand what sounds good and what doesn't. Don't pretend that you don't have an "inate" sense. come on :)

[@GloeJassie]

You should do a video of a scat guitarist vs a proper scale guitarist. Which one has more fun? Just stumble upon really cool shit that nobody is playing, because everyone else is all following "Guitar Grimore" of some silly thing. I remember getting that stupid book many years ago and wanting to pour gasoline on it.

[@squirelova1815]

This is like "The Lord of the Rings"...I'm not exactly sure what's going on.

[@carlosgravy7966]

Why be so rude? WTF?

[@marbinmusic]

What did I say that was rude?

[@carlosgravy7966]

Called people dipshits and birdbrains.