cancelling lunch: Cody Ko & the responsibility of being charming

[@AmandaRiannClark]

Edit #2: wowow gang I posted at like 400 subs (!!) looking like we'll get to donate to Rainn after all!! 😭 thank everyone for being so supportive 🥺touched. Also, clarity on my personal story: My Friend was male, and HIS friend (also male) was the one who was the perpetrator. I pressured my guy friend to confront him after learning the truth, and eventually he did - but it led no where. It’s something I’m still upset with myself about; but I mention it because I feel like it gives insight into why he’s not receiving much push for accountability from his friends/fan base.

[@lucyl4603]

Well, Tana said that her trauma doesn’t manifest *in thoughts* - just because there’re worse memories - and unpleasant thoughts are just a chunk of the trauma effect. Also, can we really say Cody’s “grown” over the years when he had a violent-kind-of-r*pist at his wedding? (As if what Cody did would be redeemable in any way)

[@squirrel1226]

He definitely did not grow at all - he is just a disgusting frat boy at heart. When the clip of Tana talking about the situation started gaining traction, he decided to dm her and basically said “We good? My wedding is happening soon”. He was obviously trying to guilt trip her into not pushing the story more by being like “are you really going to ruin the happiest day of my life over something that happened years ago” This dude is GROSS

[@withcharmtospare]

Also it wasn’t a fluke. He has dated others when they were 17/18/19 and he was in the same era. How she talks about it not being that bad cause others have had it worse, but at the same time says if it was her younger sister or friend she would get stabby. Heartbreaking.

[@Killbb12]

THIS.

[@AmandaRiannClark]

yeah, that’s what it’s looking like.

[@illogical001]

Sexual relationships I’ve had with “older” men at 17 don’t affect me in the slightest. Being raped at 14 does. These two are not the same and I hate that they’re being treated as the same. 😑 It’s weird, but not rape.

[@GranolaGaylord]

To the question of "is it justifiable that a family gets deported over this?", while I understand wanting to mind the fact that Kelsey and Otis didn't commit the alleged crime, framing the question in this manner is a slippery slope when it comes to holding anyone accountable. Most people have family of some kind that they could stand to lose or put in harm's way by committing crimes and letting the fallout impact them. Many of the predators featured on TCAP were known to have wives and children, but justice served to them is completely justified by the public. Is this because we don't have parasocial connections to them or their families? Cody Ko has been alleged to have slept with a minor at 25 years old. He's also been alleged to have dated a high schooler while in his early 20's while vine-famous. This isn't a one-off, this is a pattern with evidence enshrined throughout the internet. He must have understood the risk he was putting Kelsey at by marrying her, knowing this had potential to blow up on him. Which would have been why he was stressing out, reaching out to Tana with the "are we good? My wedding is coming up" messages. Kelsey and Otis don't deserve to suffer the fallout at all, but it was Cody's responsibility to inform her of those risks, not ours to give him a pass because "he's got a wife and a kid".

[@AnAktualKoala]

THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUU, it feels so reassuring to see other people get this. These are the exact thoughts and words that protected the several different men who assaulted my mother when she was a baby and child and it's so infuriating to hear them used to carelessly and ignorantly. All of those men had families and now they live scott free while my mother has to live with the trauma everyday and feel ashamed when around family. Why do men get the courtesy of worrying how actions will impact them when they give no such grace to their victims?

[@miss_daaé]

kelsey is complicit atp sorry to say even if she didn't know about cody... she knew about the trash they invited to their wedding soo.....

[@GranolaGaylord]

@miss_daaé this is true! I'm hesitant to say without a shadow of a doubt that she knew-- I guess it's possible he hid it or lied.... but the likelihood is not looking great for her either. Especially with the official documents on the Leechman guy they had at their wedding.

[@stellalunamp4]

well put

[@GoScience123]

As a guy, i see this all the time where guys appear as these chill charming dudes that liberal women never find disagreeable, and they actually turn out to be awful behind women's backs and lowkey predators. Its hard to put into words but all dudes ik can spot it immediately its like spotting a pick me girl. John Mulaney was really obvious to me cuz he mentioned early in his career how he used to do drugs, and he kind of transformed his persona into this clean cut white dude in a suit. Guys like that 9/10 times have some skeletons in the closet and demons they're fighting. So weirdly, im not super bothered with John Mulany being an asshole, bc to me i never expected him to be an authentic good guy, just an insanely talented comedian. But cody ko is frustrating because he's basically stopped trying to be entertaining and has been coasting off his personality reacting to stupid shit or running a triathlon or something. So him being an asshole just proves he's been faking it assuming we're all just dumb enough to follow along with him because he's just a cool guy. I think we all have to grow up from our 2016 parasocial relationship habits and stop watching e-celebs all the time for their personality, we're just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

[@TheGeorgeous]

Remove Liberal as a qualifier and you have a point. Most women are after the bad boys, its the other women that look to find these nice guys.

[@MekareP]

As a rule, if someone is charming and/or popular...they're suspicious to me. These are the type of people who can easily take advantage of others because they're trusted. Often they DO take advantage of others.

[@stares_mthrfckrly]

Wow, if men can’t even trust these types of guys… i think the reason we find these dudes as “safe” is because they check everything off of our list. Especially when we see a woman happy in her relationship with them, then I guess we use this as evidence and we fall for the manipulation. But I’ve come to realize that, other than that: Cody has never donated to anything, he has never spoken in solidarity with anything, he seems to be all talk… where you have Markiplier who donates to a lot of charities, FilmCooper who links donations to charities based on the topic of the video and has donated himself and also spoken out in solidarity with movements, Kwite who has also contributes as well. These dudes actually do shit. In the 7 years I followed Cody, he has not done a damn thing except say in his videos that he is against a lot of bad shit. Also, I agree on Cody not being entertaining anymore. I always found Noel to be the funnier one out of the two, but that’s the thing Noel had started actually doing things with his life besides just reacting to videos. That’s all Cody has done for the past at least 2 years. Which I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that if you’re a KZbinr starting out. This guy is a whole millionaire and all he gives out is basic shit like a factory. More recently (before the news broke out) I found myself using his videos as background noise while I do shit around the house. Cause I really didn’t have to watch the videos in order to understand what’s going on. That’s how basic he had become. And I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed. From now on, I’m not following anyone who doesn’t stand on their word.

[@desireeeeam]

Case in point to your first paragraph: Drake

[@SYCOSISTERS40]

This comment is great.

[@vanellopevonschweetz9791]

The fact that he knew she was 17 and still did tells me he was perfectly ok throwing away his good image all on his own.

[@AmandaRiannClark]

that’s a good point

[@syd755]

and his legal standing!!

[@Dio_Csom]

Idubzzz apology is still fresh in my memory where he just came out unprompted took accountability and apologized for what he did to Tana. Meanwhile Cody is in the middle of a way more serious controversy and not a single word from him. And honestly if he is to say anything I can only hope he can realise he HAS to take accountability for his acts.

[@linhza501]

Cody is being silent because he lawyered up. Saying anything for him is the same as admitting to a legit crime, and he might go to jail, lose everything. He is done.

[@lilcheerio3219]

@@linhza501he should

[@Dio_Csom]

@linhza501 he should still at the very least try to address it. Or you know tell people to not be weird to Tana. And if he cares about his citizenship that much maybe he shouldn't have been a weirdo. I was a Cody fan and I liked his videos but the silence is deafening. And I know it's hard to navigate the whole legal stuff he can have his reasons for not speaking but that doesn't make it right.

[@awkwardotter13]

What did idubbz do to tana?

[@bradarmstrong6982]

​@@awkwardotter13 he went to tanacon and asked her to say the n-word with the hard-r on camera because she had said it on past videos

[@melyndalegg7446]

Wow, yeah I feel so bad about a multimillionaire being deported to Canada...the horror. 🙄

[@marnenotmarnie259]

yeah like. i guess i'd maybe feel bad for kelsey? but she's friends with that creep (the college one) too so it's hard to say how innocent she is in all this. and i don't think the two month old would be traumatized by moving to canada lol. seems like the worst part (other than moving away from friends) would be how frustrating it'd be to have a baby in america where it's insanely expensive and then immediately moving to a place where they wouldn't have had to pay for it lmao

[@FaithTheZombieWolf]

Yeah this video was all over the place. This is the first time I’ve watched any of her content and I didn’t realize “nuanced takes” meant “statutory r@pe apologist” and “doesn’t believe victims of SA if the victims are girls she doesn’t like”. So weird.

[@-chenlanying5818]

I also think many people are forgetting the very real power imbalance; a teenage girl who was an up and coming influencer, who was a fan of his. Whether she has a 'reputation' or not, it is not okay and should never be justified. No one, including those you don't like, deserves to be taken advantage of.

[@demetriarule]

I've always found it hard to judge a person based on things they did young: a person's 20's are a time of rapid and sometimes brutal growth. But, there's a difference between 'young and dumb' and 'you should've known better'. Cody was 25 when he slept with 17 Tana: at 25, you know you're not supposed to sleep/date teenagers that's why majority of 25 year olds don't do it. He can't use the ignorance defense because at 25 you know it's wrong for 1 of 2 reasons: 1. you have a fully developed brain 2. other 20 years old, peers, are telling you it's wrong. In 99% instances, it's both.

[@katropolis9055]

To answer your question of what people want from Cody's fellow commentary bros, it's not an apology on behalf of somebody else. These guys advertise themselves as feminists---the vast majority of their fans are women because they foster this female-friendly space where they dunk on misogynists. A problem arises when one of their friends is being accused of doing something that they would call anyone else out for. It makes people question their integrity because they will put on the 'feminist hat' when it benefits their public image and makes money, but not when it's time to condemn the actions of a friend and possibly burn a monetary bridge.

[@greenorangeviolet]

I mean, there’s really no response from Cody that would work. He obviously did it and he can’t admit it because that would be admitting to a crime. The legal and PR advice is for him to absolutely keep his mouth shut, which he is.

[@TheGeorgeous]

Did they suggest he DJ in the face of the people looking for his response ?

[@MekareP]

Yeah not sure why people are expecting a response....

[@roxassora2706]

​@@MekarePI think it's because false accusations have happened on KZbin. (I.e. Slazo)

[@tapijoz]

But the statute of limitations for that crime is 4 years in Florida or 7 years after turning 18, or 4 years after escaping the predator. so he does this only to preserve his imago. He is in no danger of getting convicted, at least very soon now. And maybe this is why he could have kept it a secret before.

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

​@@roxassora2706 Yeah a lot of people are still coping that this might be another false accusation, when it's very clear this absolutely happened

[@roxassora2706]

The song choice would be like me mauling a sheep, then going to DJ at a pool part with "beep beep I'm a sheep".

[@stacyg585]

Many twentysomething men sleep with teenage girls. Nothing new here. Countless men like Cody break the law, traumatize teens, do all sorts of weird crap like this. So, to me, it seems that Cody simply normalized the behavior in his mind. He liked teen girls. He probably watched his own bros bone teen girls and thought, heck yeah, this looks easy. The problem here, see, is that Cody also wanted public adoration, respect, a good reputation, to be a family man, to be a loving husband, and bro, you just can't bone teen girls and be that person. If he had packaged himself as a semi-fuck-up, then this debacle wouldn't have hurt him as much as it's going to. But he pacakged himself as this good guy, a fun guy, a charming harmless guy. But he ain't. And he knew it. And he fooled us. And that makes me dislike him.

[@stacyg585]

And when I say teen, I mean under 18 teen. But even 18 is young for a 25/26 year old.

[@devinsauls3568]

People like Cody Ko and Ned Fulmer haven't changed at all. Just their tactic and brand!

[@Chrisguzman6075]

Being deported as someone fleeing for safety/better life and being deported as a millionare to another super wealthy and stable country are NOT that same lmao very minimal trauma

[@georgespiggott5615]

It is really reductive to say Tana was not upset by it when she says she is furious at the idea of him doing that to another girl that age, such as a sister. And right after she said it didn't feel traumatic compared to worse shit she's gone through, she said "the body keeps the score," meaning that she most likely is traumatized in some way, just not in the typical emotional presentation. And yes, Cody does deserve to get deported for statutory raping a child. He got residency and a green card on the condition that he didn't break our laws or harm American citizens. So on top of being a groomer and a statutory rapist, he's a liar who entered this country on false pretenses. It's not like his life will be ruined by going back to Canada, of all places, especially considering his wealth and fame. Your "nuance" just sounds like lingering bias in his favor.

[@donotreply8979]

She's just looking for more attention

[@-chenlanying5818]

Oh and him calling her to ask if they're okay and bringing up his wedding? Total emotional blackmail. It's not, "I'm sorry I did that to you, I was wrong". No instead he's asking "Why are you trying to hurt ME right now? I mean, aren't we friends? Friends don't hurt each other, right? Friends KEEP each other's secrets, right ? Esp when one of the friends is about to get married, right ?" He's trying to make her feel bad and guilty for speaking her truth.

[@-chenlanying5818]

I sometimes think that people forget that he was at some point a frat bro at DUKE of all places. him turning out to be a creep with really good lawyers that are trying their darndest to scrub the internet of this isn't surprising.

[@mamahobbit6825]

cancelling lunch is the best caption for this situation that i have seen

[@DmentidJester]

The problem with that nostalgic look back to those "kids at that table who would laugh & laugh..." is; 9 times outta 10 those kids would be "laughing" at yours (being a woman) mine (being a person of color) or any number of your subscribers, people who may have been in a lower tax bracket than them ('s) expense. The school hierarchy is/was cruel & your rose colored memories of it may be a little more forgiving than the actual reality. Just saying: our minds gloss over a great deal for the sake of our mental health.

[@DmentidJester]

I'd also like to note: ever since all of this came out I find myself wondering just how much this & other "occurrences" contributed to her toxic behavior back then...

[@-chenlanying5818]

Something that isn't discussed when people talk about Tana's past is her upbringing. She was a pretty vulnerable teen. She grew up relatively poor with shitty, abusive, negligent parents. She was a high school dropout. She grew up in Vegas, a city that is horrible for children and teens and full of gross, predatory adults. She regularly made story time videos about the party and clubbing and drug culture she grew up surrounded by as a teen. It really bothers me when people try to shame her for her promiscuous party girl type habits and attention seeking behavior as a teenager and in her early 20s, especially as a way to discredit her. All pretty normal behavior for that age range, though she partook in it more frequently and publicly than most. And she was raised without solid adults to exhibit normal and good behavior to her and KEEP HER SAFE and teach her how to keep herself safe. I don't bring this up to excuse any of her actually harmful actions. I just think it's ridiculous when people hyperfocus on the exact shit that is used to discredit women, especially high school and college aged women, every damn day, while refusing the see how their thought patterns harm all victims of shit like this. Also without acknowledging how some people's backgrounds make them even more

[@zeebadeeba]

I appreciate your nuance, however the feelings and emotions of a victim to a crime do not matter. That’s like basing a conviction on the amount the victim has cried over being assaulted, pretty slippery slope to excuses to inexcusable behaviour

[@AmandaRiannClark]

right, I tried to make that clear but I don't think I nailed it. It's still a crime, actions still have consequences -- I should've specified that it's still wrong, it just makes it sadder. bleh.

[@catcat9582]

Yeah, I had a debate with a guy about that. Victims often have low self esteem which creates a vicious cycle.

[@ThisIsNotRelevant]

Part of me just thinks mainstream celebrities get treated completely differently to internet celebrities and that’s why John Mulaney is doing fine now. There is a LOT more nuance to it like you said but I believe it for the most part. And also, yeah I do think white men get forgiven more readily in general 🙄

[@normalguy246]

as someone who also liked Cody a good amount, I am blown away by your honesty in this vid. nuance is rly hard to do in these times and it’s huge to have a creator voice the smaller/secondary feelings that many of us naturally have alongside the more obvious main points. u got a new subscriber

[@simona_sigmund1001]

Thanks for the honesty 💜 My partner and I would always watch his vids in the evening as he was funny and appeared as a wholesome guy who's just started a family. When we heard about the allegations we made the decision to unsub and stop watching any of his videos immediately. It hurts because we loved his content, but morally we can't support someone who is an alleged predator just because we think he's funny. Cody has really made it worse by not responding

[@screamqueen3000]

i’ve been a fan of cody and noel for years now, and they’ve been some of my absolute favorite youtubers. when i saw the first video about this called “the cody ko allegations” my heart literally saaank. i was so damn disappointed. it honestly took me a few days to unsubscribe because i loved him, but at the end of the day i don’t feel right as a woman to call myself a fan anymore. the that’s cringe series was something i loved to rewatch, but idk if i could even do that anymore. honestly every time i see his face i just feel grossed out. i feel for tana sm.

[@-chenlanying5818]

I highly doubt that Tana would be the only underage girl that he's knowingly slept with if he was so brazen about it

[@Killbb12]

Actions have consequences. Codys wife and child didnt choose this, but he DID by choosing to propose ONE WEEK after this leaked online. He knew this was coming, especially since she wasnt his only minor (allegedly). He needs to be held accountable, regardless of his immigration status.

[@warmjets45]

i think what needs to be examined here is the role of being good looking and how we let attractive and charming people get away with so much. tbh. i didn’t watch much cody ko after he moved to youtube but even during the vine days, he was kinda mean. idk about yall but being around someone who constantly makes fun of things is exhausting bc after a certain point, they start to lack self awareness. you know what’s cringe as fuck? having sex with a minor, that’s pretty fuckin cringe. also just loser behavior. stop putting ppl on pedestals. your favs are all prob cornballs.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

15:40 What a phenomenal point about the nuances of sexism. SO OFTEN the 'punishment' for bad men disproportionately actually falls on the shoulders on the women who depend on them. If you fire a man for making lewd comments in the office, how could it affect his four kids and stay at home wife? How can we balance justice for the female coworker (who does not deserve bad comments at work) with the welfare of other women? It's complex, but I would say, sadly but frankly, Cody Ko's wife knew who she married, so she takes the fall with him. A 17 year old girl, on the other hand, did not know what she was getting into, and we MUST enforce consequences for men who prey upon such girls. But it is very complicated, and exactly these problems are often the issue with 'white feminism', married white women will protect their husbands (because by extension they are protecting themselves) and thereby throw other women under the bus.

[@kemojoaquin]

How is John Mulaney’s story even in the same conversation as the other two? 😂

[@user-qt8sm6jh8e]

I just came across this video and I have never seen any of yours before. I just want to say, I really appreciate your nuanced take,and as a fan of Cody's, I am having many of the same thoughts. Thank you for your honesty, it's refreshing!

[@-chenlanying5818]

Nothing convinces me more than him texting Tana to see if they were good. That is not how you respond to someone making false allegations against you

[@hippoprime]

Great video. I appreciate that you had new thoughts to add. Too many of the cody ko videos ive seen have just been rehashing the facts trying to cash in on this situation with literally nothing to say

[@Amalada_]

Very honest review… thank you for your honesty ..

[@AmandaRiannClark]

thanks ❤️

[@kc-lp6wg]

Anna Marie Tendler has a book called "Men Have Called Her Crazy" coming out soon. I still can't watch any of Mulaney's content.

[@SuperPhoneDialer]

Tana said she doesn't hold it with trauma but that the body keeps the score, and we shouldn't be weighing the consequences of that. Worst case scenario they get deported... To CANADA(oh no) and also, thats not Tanas, or any victims problem or fault, it's the consequences to Cody's actions. We can't be weighing the perpetrators consequences to the perceived pain of the victim and be like Well.... Maybe she should stay quiet.

[@Ir0nSpider935]

We gotta move away from the idea that there’s “bad people” and “good people” because good people can do bad things which doesn’t make themself a “bad person”. Just someone who has done bad things, doesn’t completely change who they are as a person. In saying that Cody does need to speak up about this and doesn’t excuse his actions.

[@-chenlanying5818]

The type of lifestyle Tana lived at that age is horrifying; I remember at the time disliking her for her problematic stuff but also just feeling like, as someone only a year younger than her, that she was completely unrelatable to me. In retrospect as an adult I can appreciate that not only was I somewhat sheltered, but Tana should've been far, far more protected by the adults

[@maryam-mp5ow]

very rare to find someone who isn't afraid of being real and honest on youtube not just on your feelings about cody's situation but on your personal anecdote as well 👏

[@AnAktualKoala]

Oh yeah, the anecdote where she believed and maintained the innocence of a stranger before a victim she didn't like seeking support. Thankfully in this 20 minute video by the same woman, she talks about how sad it would be if a man she doesn't know personally was held accountable for "alleged" crimes that have been corroborated by third party sources over a decade. And how there's no point because this new victim she doesn't like says she doesn't feel explicitly traumatized by the crime, and completely ignoring how important it is for other women, like the one she ignored in her past, to see even women in positions of power be taken advantage of, have the courage to speak out, and show not even large, wealthy men are exempt from consequences. Seems like she's really learned from past experiences and isn't biased towards female victims at all.

[@beep898]

​@AnAktualKoala yeah. i honestly think shes so brave for having that "nuanced" opinion thats not biased by having previously looked up to cody ko for whatever reason. next time i think of the epitome of truth, im imagining her

[@AnAktualKoala]

@@beep898 sick sick sick, so it's not just me? Her takes and vibes on all of this was weird?

[@zoedufner4448]

@@AnAktualKoala no i thought this was so weird, acting like it would be such a terrible thing if this millionaire got deported to canada, like should criminals not be punished just because they have family it could effect? that’s ridiculous. it seems like this girl is only somewhat aware of her bias towards these male influencers/celebrities. her comment about how this could “ruin” his life was so odd, he is literally a r*pist

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

I honestly love how you appear to be in the process of working through how you feel about this, and you are showing us that process. There does not always need to be firm conclusions for a video to be valuable.

[@Kimber2011]

I watched another female creator speak about this today and she had the exact same story about a male friend assulting a girl she didn't like. But her response was to side with the girl immediately. And so when i heard your response my heart dropped and i felt a little sick. Eta: happy pancake's Brittany broski video at 10:20

[@AmandaRiannClark]

yeah, It's something I'm pretty upset at myself about. But I feel like it gives insight into why there's so little accountability being enforced by his fanbase here.

[@tillymocha]

This video was so well done and so authentic that I was shook when I saw your sub count. I appreciate the humanity in your commentary, because it's real even if it feels shameful. Cody's videos were damn near rituals for me and I tend to rewatch specific videos when anxious/depressed. I didn't want to believe any of this at first and my mind kept trying to rationalize it. Of course, because my mind IS rational, I knew this was the truth about who he was. But there had to be a lot of grief and bargaining to get there. The honesty is admirable

[@MuhammadAli-ve7mt]

Honestly, the first youtuber I've seen addressing the whole situation without being a react andy. Really good video

[@emmaruth223]

this was such a well spoken video!! great job thank you for covering this topic!

[@pablovasquez2201]

What an incredible video. You’re so well spoken and entertaining. Keep pushing girl you’re made for this.

[@StarMagick1421]

you're so real for this, i feel the exact same way 😭

[@isabellepeterson329]

thank you for this video, the nuance is appreciated. it's a difficult situation & the honesty, especially your story at the end, reminded me of a similar situation in my own life. I had a roommate in college I similarly didn't particularly like who I felt tended to exaggerate people's actions against her & play the victim, tell me she was taken advantage of by a guy at our school. despite what my gut told me, based on how i felt about her and what i knew to be true, i tried to act to her, as if her story was 100% true. I fully supported her in that situation and told her that I believed her and did my best to treat her as if the mistreatment she claimed happened to her was true- even While I objectively thought about the situation with the knowledge that I didn't have the full picture. there were many times we spoke about her experiences and she needed someone who just would listen while she was going through the process of trying to get justice through the school, especially since she was essentially ousted from her friend group. there was a lot of messiness in that situation & we, as friends of victims and perpetrators alike, never can fully know who to "side with", whether remaining friends with someone despite their actions is wrong, whether your perception is false, how much to trust your own gut, whatever. I still don't know whether that girl's story was true, but looking back, I'm glad I gave her the compassion as if it was. The most important thing, in my opinion, is that we give TANA the treatment she deserves, the care and understanding and love, presuming she is telling the truth- but it is not our place to demand blood from Cody and his family. I'm probably not going to watch his videos anymore, and I would obviously prefer that justice be served in a court of law, but seeing his life fall affected doesn't bring me joy, and i don't think it's what Tana wanted either, coming out about this experience. She deserves justice. She needs to be the center of the conversation. I liked your comparisons to other celebrities and similar situations. The idea of forgiving someone for something that has no relation to me, just because I know it was a terrible and illegal thing to do, is strange. Why do these people have a need to redeem themselves in order to continue playing the character we all should be aware they never were? It does make me feel sick seeing the comments about his wife and son & seeing every other commentary youtuber get blasted with demands for responses. whatever justice is, it isn't... is it? I don't know. Thanks for the video.

[@AmandaRiannClark]

wowowow. Thank you, and I think you nailed the ick I was trying to articulate in this video. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a bitch, but I was trying to speak to the disappointment, and feeling bummed nature of someone doing something you know is wrong. And not say what is happening is reasonable, but maybe point out what some possible explanations are. (NOT justifications.) I wish he would come forward and be a voice against the demographic that's defending him, and actually practice what he and noel often preach these days. But that's only the person I *want* him to be, not necessarily who he *is*. Or who he's proving to be. And I'm bummed that my disappointment is coming across as me minimizing the nature of what happened. Maybe the people who are out for blood have never been in the position in their personal life have to love someone who's hard to love. Or been honest with themselves about the moments they were wrong and were hard to love themselves. But likely that's for the best, because the alternative to their righteousness is allowing things like this to slide, which is a slippery slope. Justice has to be sharp, because feelings are messy. Anyway. good on you in your anecdote for seeking justice despite your personal feelings, you're who I'm trying to be ❤️

[@isabellepeterson329]

@@AmandaRiannClark i think you hit the nail on the head here. you're approaching the subject in this video as a means of studying a greater case than just this particular situation with perspective that's important when we get into really difficult, horrible stuff like this. you definitely didn't come across as someone trying to defend his actions imo, & if you're getting comments like that, i hope you distinguish between the ones that genuinely have constructive criticism and those that are , for lack of a better word, out for blood regardless. i think you're right, a lot of these people are young, it's possible they haven't experienced the difficulty of being close to this. i feel the disappointment keenly, i've been a fan of cody for years. I don't know what i honestly expect from him at this point. I hope that he seeks out tana to genuinely make amends for his past actions with her and allow her to gain peace and clarity. if that's something that she wants. as for his audience, the precedence he's setting in allowing people to defend these actions he himself would make fun of... yeah, that might be nice to get an actual response to. but now we're back where we started, with the "why do we feel like we deserve a response personally?" Lol. you strike me , in this video, as a very reasonable and thoughtful commentator. I'll be interested in seeing your next video.

[@ScamLikely9327]

The wild part about this for me is the fact that usually people become dj’s and then commit statutory grape. Cody did the opposite. It does make sense that he gets along with djs though.

[@TheGeorgeous]

Such a great concise video. Your commentary is basically some of my thoughts. Godspeed. !

[@AmandaRiannClark]

honestly this is such a compliment I had an hour and a half of footage with my thoughts and it was a FIGHT to summarize it in under 20 minutes 😅

[@TheGeorgeous]

@@AmandaRiannClark You did well. And the depth of the details you had was spectacular. It's like an investigative report into KZbin Drama ❤️

[@gregoryeckhart4765]

I dont disagree with everything said but I want to point out that John Mulaney associated heavily with dave chappelle after the controversies, and due to this, me and many others have not and will not forgive him until he acknowledges it. This HEAVILY hurt his lgbt fans, and to my knowledge, he has never does anything to apologize for it. Hes also adopting practices of louis ck, schumer and other toxic comedians. I think for the legitimacy of your argument this should be addressed as well. I was ready to forgive him for a lot until he decided he didnt care about his lgbt fans. Edit to clarify: his association was allowing dave chappelle to open for his show twice without any notice that he would be there. Allegedly he made transphobic jokes, but the practice he included I disliked was that he is banning cellphones in arenas so there was no proof. I know that may be something others disagree with being frustrating, and I understand, but from my perspective comedians typically do it to prevent controversial jokes from being leaked. His opener when we saw him was different but made a joke about trans identity, and it felt really awful when we found out about dave chapelle. I understand many people dont know his association so I dont wanna throw shade towards people who dont know. No hate towards the video, this is just a factor that changed my opinion and many others on John

[@natalie_sipes]

I really liked your thoughts and input on this, and I definitely hadn’t thought about comparing Cody to Ned, until you brought up the power dynamic. it’s been shown on the internet for the past few days that tana was a HUGE fan of his before what happened, and i’m sure he knew that. taking advantage of that dynamic, whether within a workplace, someone who is a big fan or you, or just due to age in general, is abhorrent behavior. it is SO gross to have someone use an advantage over you they KNOW they have - whether “consensual” (in ned’s words) or not. i really feel for tana here. thank you for sharing your honest thoughts.

[@sinistralhime]

People that are different now don’t do anything that Cody is currently doing and has done while this has not been under the same level of public scrutiny. Nuance is super important, but I don’t think your use of nuance here is warranted. You are saying the things that defenders of bad people say. It’s nice that you are self aware-ish. But saying this as someone who also was a fan, for several years at that, and I don’t feel an iota of what you keep saying aloud. I feel bad for Kelsey receiving harassment she doesn’t deserve to get all this hate in his stead. But the person you should be blaming for her situation is Cody. No one else.

[@peacewithoutreligion]

thank you for existing.

[@reyshah426]

Just saw this pop up on my algorithm since I’ve been following the situation and checked it out. Realized immediately that we were involved in a few high school productions together! I wasn’t super involved in the theatre department but I definitely remember you from back then. Cool to see you making really astute analytical content around sensitive issues like this. Subscribed!

[@AmandaRiannClark]

Rey!!!! Yes! Remind me which shows you were in?? Were you in improv??? (Also it’s a fun weird feeling to realize that people who I know in real life are gonna see this 😅)

[@reyshah426]

@@AmandaRiannClarkthe awkward benefits of blowing up 😅 we may have only overlapped by a year or so - I wasn’t in Drowsy Chaperone but I was in Take One at the time doing door knocking to raise money for it! Your sister and I had way more overlap and did UIL one-act together among other things. I didn’t always have the easiest time back then (to put it plainly, our lacrosse team was more diverse than our theatre department 😂) but you were always a very friendly and welcoming face in the community. Keep doing great stuff on here- excited to see it!

[@AmandaRiannClark]

yeah, tbt to when we did the act two opener of drowsy chap with our white-ass cast 🙃🙃🙃

[@lcmarvel180]

On nuance- I recommend seeking out books written by survivors. Know My Name by Chanel Miller is at times a heart breaking, difficult read, but it’s a great book that gives insight on the aftermath of a very public assault case. It goes over the day after, Miller’s healing journey and her battle for justice. I’m trying to come to you from a place of empathy because as an survivor myself, I found this video to be offensive at times and I don’t think that was your intention. I understand wanting to avoid a black and white internet mob mentality, but suggesting he shouldn’t be held accountable because of potential consequences is incredibly harmful (and hurtful) to victims. Tana might have said she wasn’t outright traumatized by what occurred, but there is nuance to be found in that statement as well if you choose to look deeper.

[@AmandaRiannClark]

I am by no way suggesting he shouldn’t be held accountable, I was trying to illustrate how the real-world implications of cancel culture do give me pause, but ultimately you can’t bend over backwards to protect someone who’s culpable, and that it was wrong. I appreciate you being constructive, I’m sorry if my video didn’t finely articulate all the points I was hoping to. Thanks for the recommendations

[@Ghost-lt4sf]

I appreciate your nuance!! Before you ended with that, I was already planning on commenting exactly that. I appreciate the thoughtful nuance while talking about this topic.

[@withcharmtospare]

I am so happy to have found you even if this bs brought me here. Fantastic essay. it’s never easy ,no matter how many times it happens

[@AndrewSkatesBadly]

This video hits hard. Very thoughtful, good stuff.

[@LanceDaniell-kz4sv]

Very good thoughts, I rlly think like you hit every point of the story right on the nose and everyone’s feelings

[@matt.stevick]

Good video, you are smart. I have been a big fan and paid member of TMG for years, at least 5+. Para-social relationships have become legit real these days, the emotions are the same as if I was witnessing a good friend going through this.

[@khristyco]

I value your thoughts.

[@catcat9582]

Almost feel like if he leaned on the ' I'm from a culture where the age of consent law is diff " he could have gotten away w it

[@marnenotmarnie259]

good video! i hadn't heard about the dj appearance, that's just 🤢 i'm not sure what some of the commenters here are talking about saying you're defending him. that's not how i interpreted this video at all. you just seem like you're disappointed to find out that someone you thought was entertaining did something so horrible, which is a very understandable response.

[@AmandaRiannClark]

yeah, that’s the lane I was trying to take, but people have an easier time with a binary sort of an angle. Not condemning him “enough” for half the audience, caring “too much” for the other. it’s that conflict between justice & feelings that people are very polarized by.

[@renasty100]

honestly the thing i LIKE about this video is your nuanced opinion- it's so easy to virtue signal and claim that if your own friend was revealed to have done something problematic in the past, you would cut all ties on a basis of morals. But real life situations and emotions are hardly ever that black and white, and I'm happy to see someone maturely mention that and ask questions even- like "Is this a just response?" because at the end of the day, we can't really know the answer. This is the first video I've seen of yours and I really like it. Lots to think about

[@goldensloth7]

i'm so glad i outgrew him a few years ago :P he and noel said something i couldn't stomach, just can't remember what it was. but it icked me out.

[@goldensloth7]

and i loathe jubilee and the cut. mega-cringe.

[@jstp99]

this was a well articulated and nuanced discussion! I could see you struggling and coming to terms with liking Cody but knowing what he did was wrong. In theory it is easy to write someone off, but in practice a lot harder. I get it. Definitely wrong of cody, it sucks.

[@mocapcow2933]

Damn, this video feels refreshingly human, unheard, just raw thoughts

[@AmandaRiannClark]

thanks, it feels imperfect but I'm trying

[@lunaloveless7234]

He has lived in America over 10 years. It only takes 3 years to get full citizenship as a Canadian. You can't deport a legal citizen. Only permanent residents.

[@lieselottekramer2302]

Um, I don’t really get the part about John. He has said he had drug related issues before and I think somewhere (I forgot where, sorry) it has been said that Anna also didn’t want to go through that again. Or he didn’t want to put her through it, something like that. Of course we don’t know exactly what happened with the alleged cheating and what went down, but I also don’t get why people care so much for other’s relationships. The difference between John and Ned is that John owned up for his faults and was able to move on, as to where Ned didn’t take any accountability at all, so people haven’t changed their perception of him since. Idk, personally I wouldn’t have placed them in the same group. Mainly because John’s issues were internal and had external repercussions vs Ned’s just choosing to be unfaithful for no other reason/cause

[@ProfMcGonaGil]

I like your video! And now I’m on to watch the last one lol. I really appreciate *nuance* and I appreciate your honesty. So many are so quick to say “ew gross can you imagine supporting or defending someone like that,” meanwhile…many of us probably can. The older I get, the less black and white I see. Opposing facts can be true at the same time and people are complicated. Most of us won’t fall into “all good” or “all bad” categories. Good people do bad things, bad people do good things…it’s all so very gray. This whole situation makes me sad. Especially for the women involved. It suck suck sucks. I hope they will be ok.

[@AmandaRiannClark]

Thank you, I’m really encouraged by this sort of response; even though I understand the hate coming from some of the others. People are hurt & flabbergasted by this sort of thing, and justice often doesn’t feel good :/ oy vey what a time to be alive, thanks for your kind words, enjoy the content 🤟

[@annamarieneglectedherplants]

Loved your honesty and insight- thank you ❤

[@chimpwimp9407]

16:58 I did the same when Tana came out with the allegations. I admit that my image of her was tainted by Idubbz back in the day. I messed up.

[@lacostepapi]

The thing that gets me mad is, tana is not getting negative comments and 0 support because she is a woman but because she is a public figure that is not very likeable due to things she has done in past. This is not about women getting disrespect, actualy if it was other way around and cody ko was 17 and she was older nobody would give a single fuck about the situation (not that im saying its okay, its bad both ways by the morals and law). And second thing that supports that this is nothing to do with women in general is, if you put someone else on the place of tana, but that public figure is someone loved by people it would probably be much more supported (again not saying it shouldnt be supported when tana is in question).

[@budddmj8191]

Really detailed and thorough breakdown. Judging by all the reference videos you use that seems like we watch pretty much the same stuff. I'm going to go ahead and subscribe

[@bjam89]

As someone who didn't like Ned before it was the thing to do. Yeah no i was in a minority. My reasons for not liking him was i could see his fratbro side, and i had seen what his peers at yale had said about him, plus his whole wife guy thing, being born out of wedlock to a y chromosome donor who was married and had other kids kinda can make you not trust some people cos you know things

[@AnAktualKoala]

Gross Gross Gross Gross Gross Gross. If Cody didn't want to be deported, he shouldn't have committed a crime and knowingly slept with a minor. He wasn't an innocent kid when this all took place, this situation didn't just spring up out of nowhere. He had ten years to take accountability, and instead he decided to try and cover up his crime, all while he started family. It's grossly clear he planted his roots and family to use as a shield against the consequences of his crime. Why should a grown man who actively hid his crimes for over a decade and knowingly started a family under criminal and false pretenses get sympathy? Cody and his family are loaded, they literally live in Reese Witherspoon's mansion, he is so set for life. His family is extremely privileged. They can afford to move from one mansion to a slightly smaller mansion in a different country. Hardworking families have their lives forcefully uprooted all the time because of rising costs of living, and I'm supposed to feel bad for the rich family having to take accountability for crimes with consequences they can afford and essentially choose to endure? His wife should be able to look around her and see the immense privilege and wealth she lives in, see the egregious crime her husband committed and understand that the support and empowerment of all victims and women to speak out is worth more than a small pause to her super cushy life. The money Cody has earned has been through the guise of "One of the Good Ones" all the while he suppressed his crimes and surrounded himself and supported other assaulters and criminals. Also ma'am, you have 509 subscribers, the statute of limitations is in effect and with third party accounts to corroborate the story, you don't have to mince words, no one is going to threaten litigation against you, say the actual crimes that happened and don't sugarcoat his actions. Everything in this video is apologia and running defense for a criminal. Just gross to listen to

[@AmandaRiannClark]

yeah, & did you notice in the video’s intro she literally infantilized him by comparing him to a middle schooler at lunch when he’s a grown-ass man? What a bitch

[@AnAktualKoala]

@@AmandaRiannClark Are you gonna actually address any real criticism? I don't need to strawman some random line in your video. You ask what the purpose Cody coming forward, owning up and disavowing his actions would do? Have you even read any of the comments that defend him under any channel or account he's affiliated with? Hundreds if not thousands of men justifying his actions in every deplorable way imaginable. Whether they blame Tana, saying that as a 17 year old she actually had more power over Cody in that relationship, or just outright saying that kids younger than 18 can be mature enough to consent and that morally nothing wrong happened. I've seen people compare what Cody did to just slightly driving over the speed limit, and asking how could you get this angry at someone over something like that. When Cody is silent, these are the people he empowers and it's the culture he fosters to make disgusting people like this feel safe. If he were to own up to his actions, show remorse for how his actions have impacted Tana and all the other underage women he's been with, and explain how he knew what he was doing and that he was a coward, not only can that begin the possibility of growth on his part, but how are any of those losers who defended him use him as an example or icon for their ideology? It might even do the intended purpose of helping young men without the proper environment see a better example to learn from. It's not that deep, but you seem to have a real strange aversion to believing female victims, as displayed throughout your entire video and the anecdote you included yourself. And I never called you any names, I called out your actions and criticized them, be mature and own up it

[@AnAktualKoala]

@@AmandaRiannClark Sorry my connections to SA aren't through disregarding a victim and struggling with how her trauma still haunts me. I've never walked away with the sentiment to continue to be so blatantly distrustful of victims in the future and continue to hold out hope that this assaulter is different.

[@AmandaRiannClark]

@@AnAktualKoala i like your point about Cody possibly being a voice of influence if he were to own up to it. That was a bit I actually also recorded, too, but ended up on the cutting room floor. I didn’t ask what it would do, in fact I was trying to convey that that should be the only option - and the DJ moment is just salt in the wound. Regarding me defending him - I called it out as a crime. I don’t mince words about that. The story I left in because I’m ashamed of it; but I feel like it gives insight into where other people’s heads are at. Like I say in the video. She didn’t deserve that. I tried to rectify it by having my male friend call out his compatriot (the perpetrator) on her behalf. I wasn’t trying to engage in apologia; rather take a more news reporter tone when I used words like “allegedly”, etc. Look, even as I was editting it I realize that this video is not perfect. But My hope with this video was to ultimately acknowledge that justice is important, but try and help articulate those hairy, ugly feelings I see myself having. I saw in another thread that you have personal experience with this particular topic. I’m sorry that happened to you & your family. And (I’m hoping to say this gently) I hope my clarity is helpful, but some of your misunderstandings are verging on bad faith arguments. The point of this video was to illustrate how heartbreaking it is to have to confront the gross bias you wish you didn’t have. I’m sorry I’m not angry, but I hope you agree that me being sad is also valid.

[@SpectraStarShooter]

I appreciate you having a nuanced view on this. I just recently dug into Cody as well, loved his content, this whole thing fucking sucks.

[@bs4e]

So what's crazy is that in Canada, it would not be illegal. So how do we protect the kids, without taking away their agency? What do we do? Why is 18 adult? What's the difference between 17 and 18 year old? I'm so frustrated.

[@awkwardshapes7072]

Wait Im lost abt the john mulaney part, are you saying the horrible thing he did was have an addiction to drugs? Because I dont believe he has addressed the cheating allegations????

[@catcat9582]

Ned was the wife guy cuz he always talked about his wife

[@MrGMovieReviews]

The internet hardly ever forgives anyone

[@rubyrosenberg483]

saw your ig update thing (idk what those are called lmao) congrats on 1k!

[@AmandaRiannClark]

THANK youuuu!!! 🥹🥹

[@-chenlanying5818]

"He has a kid!" *She was a kid.*

[@milesgraham7239]

You have very good takes. Thank you for making this video

[@massiveconehead]

agree with the general idea of this video but people always tend to bring john mulaney into this when I find it kinda unfair. his situation is a lot more muddy, we don't know the full picture and I find it odd how everyone has kind of jumped to their own conclusions. neither anna or john have talked about it in detail and probably will never talk about it in detail. from what we know, both were struggling immensely during the pandemic, anna with her mental health, and john with his relapse. I'm not saying that john didn't cheat, but there's no actual proof that he did. with ned fulmer and cody there's actual definite proof, so it's pretty different.

[@yourshoe352]

This is the first video I've seen about this issue which takes time to explain that this situation is very very nuanced. It's not at all black and white or us vs them. It just isn't that simple. Thank you for being honest and articulate enough to cover this.

[@Davidattenboroughscock]

Pretty chaotic times, this giant decision from Cody and Putins decision on where he wants to take the war

[@Jcoaerlrsiocno]

This video is so real.

[@SuperDuperVision]

This video was great. Algorithm got me here and glad it did. Supporter and subscriber in me

[@AmandaRiannClark]

aw, much obliged, thank you. 🤟

[@Tkitkat825]

The internet forgave Mullany? I haven't, the video clips of his, the comments haven't 😅

[@gyrobarrett7791]

I’m so disappointed in Cody, if the allegations are true then we probably should have seen this coming, I mean he’s a kinda cringey frat boy.

[@therockbottom5256]

LMAO okay I’d seen the memes about the DJ set but “sorry” was a diabolically funny choice😂😂😂😂😂

[@4Valentinus]

Thanks. We can't be hypocrites as Cody ko fans. He's acting guilty so he might as well be...we no longer partake. Simple as.

[@4Valentinus]

P.S I've always liked Noel more btw...(he also needs to address this)

[@RennK85]

I really appreciated your take. I didn’t find Cody Ko till January and I did binge watch literally until I found out about this story and it’s disturbing and I unsubscribed to him. But I have subscribed to you.

[@SaraReffler]

what Cody did and continues to do (or actively not do) is problematic at best, without question off topic, where did you get your set of 3 wall art prints? the colors and styles would be perfect with my other bathroom decor

[@AmandaRiannClark]

hah, I’ll gladly take a lil levity and think about somethin else for a sec ;) It was actually a digital download from Etsy where I paid like $15ish dollars for something like 10,000 prints, and then my local library had a printshop printer I used 🙂

[@SaraReffler]

@@AmandaRiannClark haha guess I'm off to a chaotic Etsy search! thanks for getting back to me, and keep making nuanced and complex videos 💕💕

[@aR0ttenBANANA]

It never sits well with me when people equate adultery/being a bad person in a relationship with actual predators. How are the dude from Buzzfeed who cheated on his wife or John Mulaney getting put in this same basket? Also, isn't the irony of doing so but then saying friends aren't responsible for the actions of the person in question, when their whole content is based on moral grandstanding, lost on you (Curtis Conner being a prime example)? If your content revolves on judging the actions of others through the court of public opinion, how can you be trusted if you won't do the same for people in your direct vicinity and in situations with graver consequences for all parties involved?

[@AmandaRiannClark]

But why are we, the public, owed that? Is that a demonstration of bad faith on our part? Also, Ryan Beard has a really good video on this (the Cody ko) topic & examines moral virtue vs moral obligation in regards to creators. I would check that out, it’s a really thought-provoking watch, highly recommended

[@tracyk80085]

16:45 don’t bring our boy Kurtis’s name into this! 😅

[@fknpandaman]

480p is wild

[@AmandaRiannClark]

sry to be so controversial ✊😔

[@simranphadnis4081]

im sorry do we…. like mulaney again? im not sure…..