Cane Creek DBIL Review - Santa Cruz Hightower v2 fit & Performance

[@finnisgay5056]

Now this is just to good to be your first video. I love the cane creek suspension and I have the same shock as you at the rear. Keep up the great work.

[@SemiSendy]

Thanks, MTB Films!

[@joshuabell3348]

Clicked this video because I am coil-curious and also looking at SC bikes. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that you were in the Chattanooga area (where I live). That added even more relevance to your review, so thanks! You got a new subscriber, and I've already shared with a friend.

[@SemiSendy]

That's awesome Joshua! Psyched to meet another Chattanooga ;) As for the coil on the HTv2, there's been some clearance issues arise since this video came out. If you want to go coil, you'll more than likely have rubbing on the HTv2 no matter which spring you go with. Believe me, sadly I've tried them all at this point.

[@joshuabell3348]

@@SemiSendy That's a shame but good to know. The SC website specifically says that the new 5010 is coil-compatible, and a review video said that the shock area was wider to eliminate that clearance issue. I'm eagerly waiting to see if any of the other 2021 models have similar changes. The 5010 sounds perfect for me but is available only in carbon. While not a deal-breaker, I was leaning towards alloy for cost/durability.

[@SemiSendy]

Joshua Bell they learned quick people want more fit options! New 5010 is super slick.

[@tanpen15]

Incredibly well done review and great camera work.

[@SemiSendy]

Thanks Kane! Hope we get a chance to meet and ride soon.

[@illgazillion]

Wholly crap. This is a setup almost exactly what I was looking in to. Thank you for the video.

[@SemiSendy]

Hey iLL, that's awesome you found this! Definitely check out the comments section.There ended up being some rubbing on the frame that didn't start showing up until a couple months after this video. I talked a bit about that in a cascade link review video I did a couple months ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGXSc5ptfrynrpo

[@lennyfellmeth7892]

@@SemiSendy was that with the stock or cascade link installed? Was there enough clearance with the shock link ?

[@SemiSendy]

@@lennyfellmeth7892 rubbing was with both links.

[@lennyfellmeth7892]

@@SemiSendy thanks for your answer. What spring rate did you run at what weight? Cheers

[@northshoreboy1313]

Thaś good video with some real content. Good luck with this channel and racing season too:-)!

[@SemiSendy]

Thank you kindly Libor! I hope to bring enjoyable content moving forward. Excited for the races and good times ahead.

[@alessandrovinci8724]

So is there a chance for me to have a coil on my hightower 2021 ❤🎉

[@jirirada5276]

Cool, i use Helm and IL shox on my Reign now , and i want this setup on my next bike .. its fine to see that Hightower , my choise for a next bike work well with coil shox

[@Tracks777]

lovely content

[@renemister]

How effective is the climb switch?

[@Trucksgunsbikes]

Sorry if have missed this info on your channel. What is you frame size and Height?

[@mileselze7184]

Santa Cruz website said the high tower doesn't fit a coil shock, or is that just the aluminum that it doesn't fit on?

[@SemiSendy]

That is correct, SC's official stance is no coil, and for good reason. The clearance is TIGHT. There's been updates to this info in the comments, and in the description. Rubbing developed after a couple of months with no issues.

[@LucasMillerMTB]

Hey there (i already left a previous comment), finally hot my hands on the shock, but i was curious about your lockout performance over time. When i lock out my fox 34 it is rock solid, but when i lock out the coil it has minimum difference apart from the slow rebound. I may have a dead shock, but i didnt know if this was normal, thanks!

[@SemiSendy]

Hi Lilboi, most rear shocks, and especially coil shocks, typically do not have a full lock out. Shocks like the DBIL and DHX2 have ‘climb modes’ instead, which just help lower any perceivable pedal bob, while still allowing the shock to be active and tracking over Technical Climbing terrain

[@niccolo_defendi]

would you recommend coil for other santa Cruz bikes like the Bronson? great vid btw

[@SemiSendy]

Thank you Niccolo! I can't personally say I've ridden the Bronson with a coil, but I have two friends who have coils on their lower link Bronson's and love them. The Bronson tunnel has larger clearance as well, so there are no clearance issues.

[@InformatrIIcks]

I'm concerned about clearance on my setup. Could you give spring OD on both compressed and uncompressed position ?

[@SemiSendy]

Hi Leo, I no longer have that shock set up or calipers to measure that, but there's an update on fitment issues in the video description to check out. Cheers.

[@mtbeliever5833]

Just bought this exact shock for my Yeti SB130. Got the progressive 450-550 spring. Hope it’s buttery.

[@darrinkulyk9560]

Whats the Rider weight ?

[@tobionassis4449]

Is it a Hightower V2 CC frame or a C frame? CaneCreek told me that a CC frame has less clearance for the spring - that´s why.

[@SemiSendy]

This is the C frame Tobi. That's good to know as I hadn't heard that about the CC frame yet.

[@rouvenbeck2142]

Hey , one more question. Did you use the cascade link right now. You wrote that you ordered one, i guess.

[@SemiSendy]

Absolutely, recently reviewed it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGXSc5ptfrynrpo

[@srfaddict]

@Semi-Sendy I saw that you swapped out the Cane Creek for a Fox recently, does either one provide more clearance than the other? Thanks

[@SemiSendy]

Sadly, no. The SLS spring is a slight smaller OD than the CC spring, but under deflection it will still rub. This is, in my opinion, the only pitfall to the HTv2. It's such an incredible and capable bike otherwise.

[@srfaddict]

@@SemiSendy Ok, so if there were no issues with the coil rubbing (or if you don't care about a little rubbing under flex) would you choose the coil or cascade link if you could only have 1 on your bike? I currently have the Link and like it but I want a little more planted feeling in the chatter and want the bike to feel a bit more DH / park ready. I'm planning on purchasing the DHX2 and running the stock link but don't want to feel like I just spent a decent sum of money to end up right where I was with the link. I will have to remove the cascade link as I need a 500lb spring without the link and a 600lb with the link. So running the link and the coil together is not an option. Thanks for the videos and replies!

[@SemiSendy]

@@srfaddict ​ oh man, that’s a great question. I’d have to give the nod to the cascade link though. Even when running the RSSD it’s not terribly far off from the stock link with coil. Not quite as planted, but pretty damn good and way more supportive towards the last 1/3 of the stroke. I’ve run that combo on lots of high speed chunder and felt confident with it. At this point, a lot has changed this year. I've spent more time than ever focused on on descending and had my first full season of riding park. My speed has increased to a point that I'd likely be regularly bottoming out the DBIL on the stock link. I would much rather have the benefits of the Cascade link over running stock+coil at this point. I'm running the RSSD and DHX2 about 50/50. The DHX2 with the link is more planted still, but I'd give it up before I'd give up the Cascade link.

[@srfaddict]

​@UC5f8Wd-bq0Rbjkh47mqxgjg Yeah, I have another Hightower with a RSSD Ultimate that is working really well with a MegNeg as a trail bike and another Hightower with a Cascade Link and RSSD (rebound only) that is my party bike, and I think the shock is holding the setup back. I've been torn between buying a better Air Shock or going with the coil and dropping the link. The one thing I like about going with the coil is getting a tad more BB height from the stock link and running a 170mm fork. I feel the Link might be a little too slack in this config but... So many options. Sometimes I think I should just swap the frame for a Megatower as I still have my original Hightower that I keep setup as an all rounder rip stick. I do love the Hightower a lot and if I were to go down to 1 bike it would be the HT! Anyway, thanks again for your time!

[@SemiSendy]

@@srfaddict I know the back and forth feeling. It's such a damn good bike, and that N+1 fund hasn't gotten touched this year (which with the lack of bikes available I guess is ok...haha). It's just so good all around, it's tough to justify anything slightly smaller, or the MT. I think I'd have to sell the HT if I got the MT, and get a smaller/lighter trail bike. That Spur certainly comes to mind, or perhaps the new smuggler I hear is coming. First world problems though. I'm a pretty happy camper as is, and my Honzo keeps the tame trails more interesting. Cheers!

[@matteomasini1599]

Yo mate is it running good in the bike or is there any contact with the frame (scratches or anyrhing)

[@petermccann2561]

I'm sorry to say that after 15+ years of running CCBD coil shocks, I'm done with them. Once upon a time they partnered with ohilins and made a reliable, great performing shock. My last CC coil failed within ~ 25 hours, leaking oil at the shaft. When new, the spring was rubbing the plastic sleeve on the shock body, and the LSC adjuster had to be run full out (at CCs' instruction). I let that, and the rubbing noise go, but waited until the 12 month warranty period was out before contacting them, so I was told that despite all the problems, and that they had "fixed" the seal head problem, I'd have to spend ~$250 to get the shock serviced, and there was no indication that it wouldn't fail again. Since the protective sleeve was nearly worn through on one side (I bought a CC Valt spring with the shock), I thought the side load may have contributed to the leaking oil, but they said that the sleeve has to wear all the way through to metal for it to be abnormal/warranty. Now I have a $500 paperweight, since I'm not throwing $250 in good money after bad, on a squeaking, rubbing, leaking shock. Are there any other twin tube/4 circuit coils out there? Ohlins? The CCDB coil I put on my '02 Bullit is still going strong...but they don't make that shock any more.

[@SemiSendy]

Understandable. Couple of my friends have been having some rough goes with their shocks recently as well.

[@petermccann2561]

@@SemiSendy Not surprised. At least I have a Ohlins TTX coil that is working well on the N4 with the CC Valt spring I salvaged, with no rubbing. CC quoted 40 day turn around for service, with shipping on me, both ways, and suggested faster service might be available at a "service center" in El Paso. I did let the warranty period slip, but the fact that there were replicated issues with the shock, with a updated seal head released...but what good is that with a spring rubbing & chirping? Perhaps if the new coil shock were better in that regard, an upgrade might be offed at a discount...but no. Leaves a bitter taste when you've depended on, recommended, and installed CC shocks & headsets on 7-8 custom builds, suddenly your $500 shock fails at super low hours, and it makes more sense to go to a competitor vs fixing the dead CCDB...To be fair, this shock was built in late 2018, and at ~220lbs with gear,, my springs are larger diameter wire, I used a new DHR rear tire, with the new CC coil, on my Nomad build in late '18, and that tire is just starting to show wear, mainly from a couple of weekends at Spider Mountain. I got a taste of the CC air shock debacle a few years back, as well....

[@dviii]

Have you tried this setup with the CC progressive spring? I contacted CC and they did not recommend it because of reports of rubbing.

[@SemiSendy]

The Progressive coil does have a larger Outer Diameter, and it has been reported to rub the upper corner on the drive side of the tunnel. This would likely be remediated by using the Cascade Components LT link that was just released for the HTv2, but I haven't received my link yet (I'm on the pre-order list). The Fox SLS springs are a smaller outer diameter, and have good clearance when mounted via the Cascade Link. Cascade has posted a few pics on their instagram account if you want to check it out.

[@shawnkushmer]

I have one on my 2017 Hightower with the progressive spring. It’s so fantastic.

[@SemiSendy]

Heck yeah, shawnk386!

[@thebeardedyorkshireman8368]

Hi have you had any rubbing from the coil?

[@SemiSendy]

I have, there's more details in the comments and description if you're curious. I briefly shared a photo of it in the Cascade Link review I did: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGXSc5ptfrynrpo The tunnel size is my only complaint with the HTv2. Otherwise, what a stellar bike!

[@thebeardedyorkshireman8368]

Semi-Sendy cheers for that. You thought of the meg neg can? Plus my shock is 210x55??

[@SemiSendy]

@@thebeardedyorkshireman8368 I didn't care too much for the feel of the megneg. It felt like a "push" through the initial stroke instead of a natural stroke. Single best upgrade I've found has been the cascade link. It completely unlocks the Super Deluxe. Great small bump, supportive mid-stroke and a nice progression at the end of the stroke.

[@LucasMillerMTB]

I own a tallboy and i am going to put one of these on it. Its funny how santa cruz says no they wont work, but ive seen forms filled with people putting this exact shock on their tallboys so yeah.

[@SemiSendy]

Hey Lilboi, I can't speak towards the Tallboy fit, but if you read the description of this video or the comments, you'll see updates that there was clearance issues that showed up over time with this set up. The spring under heavy deflection does rub. It would surprise me if the Tallboy had better tunnel clearance than the Hightower, but it's certainly possible.

[@LucasMillerMTB]

@@SemiSendy do you know why it might have started to rub?

[@SemiSendy]

@@LucasMillerMTB the clearance is too tight, and the OD of a coil increases under load, which is known as deflection.

[@SemiSendy]

I would assume not, especially since they advise against it. You'd have to ask them directly though.

[@InformatrIIcks]

@@SemiSendy could you give a guesstimate of the coil OD when compressed ? Can't find any info about coil diameter online :/

[@nicoszabo2789]

What microphone do you use?

[@SemiSendy]

Mainly just the built in's on my GoPro and GH5 camera's out on the trail. I use a Sennheiser MKE-600 for voiceovers and it's an incredible mic!

[@BradBuege]

Thanks for posting this video, I have the same bike (Hightower C "S" build in Large) and have been thinking about ways to improve it in the chunk just a bit too. That being said I do think the super deluxe select plus that came with the bike is actually a really nice shock and feels great on this bike and rips pretty well. Two questions for you, if you don't mind: 1. I notice you didn't get the progressive spring - any issues bottoming out, have you tried it with a progressive spring since? 2. Have you tried to fit any other coil shock besides the db inline? For example I am wondering if a Fox DHX2 with an SLS spring or MRP progressive spring would fit. Many thanks.

[@SemiSendy]

Hey Brad, no harsh bottom out issues with the linear spring. I run the shock with the base factory tune plus 1.5 turns additional LSC. The progressive spring came out after my purchase. I did receive a progressive spring in the mail a few days ago though.

[@BradBuege]

@@SemiSendy thanks for the response good to know. Do you have any thoughts on question 2 you could share?

[@SemiSendy]

@@BradBuege sorry for the delay, but no, I haven't seen or know of others that fit. If you find anything out, let me know!

[@BradBuege]

@@SemiSendy will do man no worries. Fox has come out with new shocks today, would be interesting to dimension them compared to the Cane Creek. Also, there's a company called cascade components that makes lower links and it's rumored they are making a link kit to bump travel up to 150mm, that would be sick too.

[@SemiSendy]

Heck yeah! I've got the Cascade link on order. They put out a sneak peak pic of the first production one yesterday. Also pre-ordered the new Heritage 36 in 160mm. Excited to check it out.

[@arangoje]

Hey Rich, could you share the exact model/specifications of the DB Coil IL that fits the 2020 high tower? I want to make sure I order the right size/model. Does anything else need to be purchased other than the shock and spring?

[@SemiSendy]

Hey Jesus, been away from the internet for a couple days while I created some more content, so I'm sorry to keep you waiting! I've got the full listing for the model and part numbers in the description for this video above. That said though, I've recently identified some frame rubbing. You can find some more details about this in some of the comment replies below, but the rubbing occurs in the top corner on the drive side. Others have had the same experience and CC is discouraging use of this particular set up. Bummer because that shocks performance was really impressive, but that's just how it goes sometimes. I have been testing some new options, and I'll be releasing a new video soon discussing these in detail. For now, the biggest thing is the new Cascade Components "HTv2 LT Link": cascadecomponents.bike/v2-hightower-lt-link/ I've been using it with the stock RS Super Deluxe and it's been extremely impressive. I'm surprised at just how much it improves the small bump sensitivity with the RSSD, and it also maintain the pedaling efficiency of the stock link. Added bonus, a bit of extra travel and a really balanced feel with a 160mm fork up front. I'm waiting on the 2021 Fox DHX2 with a 500# sos spring to arrive mid-June. The SLS spring has a smaller outer diameter than the Vault springs, and the Cascade link has the added benefit of slightly lowering the shocks position in the tunnel adding more clearance as well. I hope all of this info helps you on your journey, my friend!

[@arangoje]

@@SemiSendy Very useful information. Thanks so much!

[@SemiSendy]

@@arangoje Anytime! Thank you for being a part of the channel!

[@mitchellhoule5619]

Considered putting the Cascade LT link on the rear?

[@SemiSendy]

Absolutely, I've been riding on their link since it's release and did a review on it. I think it's the best upgrade you can make on the HTv2. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGXSc5ptfrynrpo

[@camerondavis7291]

I thought the hightower couldn't fit any cool shocks, or at least it says that on their website

[@SemiSendy]

Santa Cruz is staying firm on that as their official stance.

[@camerondavis7291]

@@SemiSendy ok thanks

[@Intentsrig]

Also, do you know anyone that has upstroked? 210x55?

[@SemiSendy]

I do, and I have seen no evidence of any real issues with tires up to a 2.5 DHF in size. No contact with seat stay, etc. I've thought about converting mine over as well. This model DBIL comes with two spacers, each 2.5mm, behind the bottom out bumper. Per Cane Creek, they can be removed to change the stroke length. Removing one takes it to 55mm, so the option is there should I choose. I initially thought I was going to do this, but after riding it at the 52.5 stroke for the past few months, I haven't felt the need to do that just yet. I believe going to a 55mm stroke puts the rear travel somewhere around 146/147.

[@Intentsrig]

@@SemiSendy Hey man! What mounting hardware is needed? Mine has the fox dps on it currently.

[@SemiSendy]

@@Intentsrig you can see the full listing in the description above, but essentially you'll need the following: DBCOIL-IL - 210/52.5 - Factory Base Tune (item number: BAD2372) Shock Hardware Front Bushing - 20.0mm x 8mm (item number: HWAO) Shock Hardware Rear Bushing - 30.0mm x 8mm (item number: HWCO) Rider Weight - 175lbs - Sag set to 28% VALT Coil - 2.25" x 450lb - non-progressive/classic VALT I'm a bit on the heavy side for this spring rate. I'm debating on whether to bump up one notch for the progressive coil or not, since an added increase in progressivity will already be present.

[@SemiSendy]

Hey Brian, not sure if you saw the update on the cascade link option that's about to release, but it offers 150mm rear travel with the stock 210x52.5 shock sizing.

[@mikedamisch]

Very interesting!

[@SemiSendy]

Thanks for checking it out, Mike!

[@Intentsrig]

I wonder if the tunnel diameter is the same on the Alu version?

[@SemiSendy]

Good question, Brian. I'll do some digging and see what I can find out for you.

[@Intentsrig]

Semi-Sendy Thanks! I’m actually going to see a few today. Going to bring a tape measure haha.

[@SemiSendy]

@@Intentsrig heck yeah, let me know what you find out!

[@Intentsrig]

Semi-Sendy Unfortunately the alu HT didn’t make it on the truck. So I have to wait until Tuesday 😫. Sucks because that’s the one I’m buying haha

[@SemiSendy]

@@Intentsrig oh man, that's the type of suspense that kills me. I want instant gratification! But, in the end, I guess the wait makes it a bit sweeter.

[@andtheflyinglizard]

thanks for the vid. anyone an idea if it fits on a enduro 2017 frame (with a proper bike yoke of course) ? thanks

[@jonanderson1777]

Anyone try this on a SC tallboy?

[@baksi07]

NEWBIE Alert... Building up my first fulsuspension. Would like to ask why did you went into coil vs air as what Santacruz uses on a HTv2. Thanks. Followed, liked & sub'ed. 👍

[@SemiSendy]

That's a great question. The short answer is for a more supple small bump sensitivity. Less harsh in the chatter, and a more "planted" ride. That said, a lot has changed since this review, and I'll have a new video coming soon covering another option. There is a new lower link for the HTv2 made by Cascade Components. This link uses the stock RockShox Super Deluxe and creates a feel much closer to that of the coil without swapping out the shock. I would honestly recommend this option first and foremost to anyone looking to improve the feel of the rear end on their HTv2. It's cost effective ($250), easy to install, and makes every shock I've tried on it feel much better.

[@baksi07]

@@SemiSendy Nice.. Will wait for the latest video. Keep this awesome & Informative channel going.

[@justinwbohner]

No comment on how the bottom out bumper takes 10mm off the stroke?

[@Lilljoescratch]

Nice man thanks for review, I have same bike. I’m doing cascade linkage , Fox 38 & DHX2 160mm both We’re up in Md. spokeapparel.com 🤘🤘🤘

[@SemiSendy]

I run the same set up except with a 36! (I do get rubbing on a 500lb SLS coil). The DHX2 sure is nice.

[@Lilljoescratch]

@@SemiSendy Do you think 550 would be better

[@SemiSendy]

@@Lilljoescratch the heavier the spring the larger the outer diameter (assuming it’s the same spring line). The SLS springs are about the smallest outer diameter out there, but a 550lb will be a tighter fit than the 500lb. It will mount just fine, but rub under deflection.

[@SemiSendy]

@@Lilljoescratch There is a shot in this video (@1:50) that shows the rub under deflection: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGXSc5ptfrynrpo

[@Lilljoescratch]

@@SemiSendy Got my DHX2 and my cascade linkage none of it fits correctly Mind you this is aluminum frame. Maybe if I Dremel it out a bit. I guess it’s all how far do you want to go 😐 A lot of money they’re asking for this shit... unimpressed so far