Canon C70 vs Sony FX3 - Image Comparison and Interview BTS

[@photographyRI]

Just as a note; I think you’re backwards on usage of the term depth of field. It sounds like when you’re saying “more depth of field” you are referring to shallower depth of field which is considered less depth of field. Full frame is easier to be shallow - apsc it’s easier to have more depth of field.

[@jhnyhmnd]

Yeah good catch!

[@quiztasiarocks]

The thing that holds me back from the c70 is the low light performance. Usable footage to iso 6400 compared to clean iso at 12800 on Sony is a huge difference. What difference does the speed booster give, I’ve also heard ppl have noticed pink dots on the speed booster which seems problematic?

[@contentm3893]

FX3 has a harsh look. I never noticed before. Also, the C70 has more dynamic range in the first comparison. More highlight definition in the highlights on the face and more mid tone and shadow info on the shirt. The FX3 just fades away. Same with the rolloff on the right arm. More color variation and mid tone from shadow to highlight. Is that an exposure issue with the FX3?

[@chungdha]

You should make one of C70 vs FX30 as then both are APSC.

[@jhnyhmnd]

Good idea!

[@alexfagard3618]

the c70 is S35?

[@jhnyhmnd]

@@alexfagard3618 Yep

[@BarefootMediaTV]

i have an a7iv and fx30, i definitely prefer the a7iv by a lot. So id say if you switch to sony, keep it all full frame.

[@carlosq00]

What are you using to monitor on set and in post?

[@jhnyhmnd]

We use SmallHD monitors on set

[@stevenbaileytv]

Image compression has nothing to do with focal length - it's only ever a factor of perspective (where the image plane sits in relation to the subject). A 50mm lens does not compress an image more than a 35mm lens. This is a myth. To my eyes, the 35mm on the C70 has a wider angle of view than the 50mm on the FX3. Try taking the C70 image and overlaying it on top of the FX3 image. Then scale the C70 image up so that the size of the subject's face matches that of the FX3. Once you're there, compare the size of the guitar bodies/guitar case/framed image, etc. in the background. If the sizes are the same, then there you go. Same compression. If the size is off by a little bit, then one camera is likely sitting a little further away from the subject than the other - this is what would account for an increase in image compression. Being further away from the subject. The idea that there is a "look" inherent to a full-frame sensor involving background compression because you're using longer focal lengths is a big huge gigantic myth. People say this about anamorphic, too. Or 70mm. Or whatever. But the size of background objects in relation to the subject will be identical if you have two image planes sitting equidistant from that subject, regardless of focal length, image sensor size, format, etc. You literally *can* control and match identically between the two formats. All you'd have to do is widen the G-Master so that it matches the same angle of view as the C70, stop the lens down to make the amount of blur match that of the C70, and then compensate for the loss in exposure by bumping the ISO or rolling off some ND or something.

[@d.edwardsfreelanceeditorvi4212]

Curious as why no one compares the fx6 to the C70? Or the fx3 to the R5c. These match ups seem to be more comparable. That new R6II is probably a good B cam for the c70 also.

[@jhnyhmnd]

Great point! We had more immediate access to a FX3, but yes a FX6 would be a bit more of a direct comparison to the C70. From my understanding, the image and sensor is very very similar between the 3 and 6, so there shouldn't be too much of a difference between both.

[@GabeStrong]

@@jhnyhmnd the FX3 and FX6 look pretty similar but in my opinion the FX6 has better processing behind the sensor. Less noise reduction or something makes the image look a touch less ‘digital’ to me but that’s just my opinion. But as far as features and price, the FX6 would definitely be more of a fair comparison to the C70.

[@richardnayfilms2812]

Because those are completely different sensors. The FX6 and FX3 are the same exact sensor.

[@rosspfeffer5185]

Having the same sensor doesn’t mean the two cameras output will look exactly the same. That is only part of the equation. It depends on the segment the camera is marketed for. Usually, the electronics/processing/ features are better implemented in the more expensive camera. The fx6 and the fx3, whilst similar, look a little different side by side. Also the Canon C300II and the C70 look different even though they share the same sensor. The C300II output looks better. More refined.

[@McarthurBeard]

I liked the c70 colors better and you frame the sony better but both colors and frames could have been adjusted to match each other if you really wanted it to. What it comes down to for me is the built in ND filters in the canon c70 that’ll make me lean toward it. If I was to grab and go and all I had was the body and the lens the canon has everything I need to get the job done without having to add anything at the end of the day all these cameras produce a good image we are really paying for it’s convenience how easier it makes my life

[@craig6t]

The Canon CLog2 wins for me; more 3D look, nicer dark and shadow tones, skin looks natural. The FX3 looks a little flat compared to the Canon.

[@fotimtocimziju]

Thank you for this video. I had a chance to work with both cameras and I really think that C70 should be compared to FX6 and FX3 to R5C. Anyway they are both great and there is no clear winner. I was very surprised that absence of IBIS in C70 did not hold me back - using stabilised lens made the result same as from FX3.

[@richardnayfilms2812]

Why would you make those comparisons? The C70 and R5C do not share the same sensor, while the FX6 and FX3 do. So comparing the C70 to the FX3 is the same as comparing it to the FX6.

[@907DP]

Should we compare the Venice 2 to the A1 since they share the same sensor?

[@Loftikaz]

35mm is 45mm equivilant full frame, if you used a 40mm lens on c70 or speedbooster you'll have more of the same.

[@davidmorefield]

I’m gonna assume that was a canon camera that was missing focus on your outside interview 😅 Also, just my two cents: your B Cam should have more of a different look than your A Cam. Generally, the subject should take up twice as much of the frame as your A cam. It can look weird when cutting between two shots that te really similar. Or maybe you’re not inter cutting between the shots in the final edit…

[@jhnyhmnd]

Lol yeah we were rocking an R6 on the BTS. No idea why it was hunting for focus so much. And yeah regarding your second point, the two angles were strictly for comparison with this video. For the final video we only utilized the FX3 angle. If we were using the C70 as B, we would definitely want it tighter, to your point. I wanted the frames to be as similar as possible though, for comparison purposes.

[@davidmorefield]

@@jhnyhmnd The canon autofocus has burned me more than once. Especially on c70 🥲 Ok yeah that makes sense. I recently just switched from canon to Sony. C70 to Fx6. It’s uhh… definitely nice to have a few features that I was missing. Very happy so far.

[@jhnyhmnd]

@@davidmorefield What have you done regarding lenses? I'm assuming you were invested in EF with a C70? Did you switch to E mount lenses or an adapter?

[@davidmorefield]

@@jhnyhmnd Adapting with Sigma mc11 and the autofocus and lens stabilization are still great. In the future I’ll switch to emount lenses but no rush at the moment.

[@fredpolo69]

You never said what the purpose was to switch in the beginning. Is it boredom or a true legit reason?

[@1bncxlr]

This era of Canon forcing us to use proprietary lenses is becoming a deal breaker. Reminding of when I shot with Sony Betacams having to use their own special feed box to record an sdi feed, or have to buy a Sony recorder. I own two camcorders and an EOS R for stills. I am considering switching to Sony.

[@vitorquental3628]

You can use all the EF glass in you RF camera with the adaptor. It works like native lenses because it is... native. I don't understand why people say this is a problem. Cheers!

[@vitorquental3628]

@@DubYaJsWorld Sigma EF mount work the same with the RF bodies.

[@DubYaJsWorld]

@@vitorquental3628 I hear it works pretty good but that's another item to by vs just getting native mounts. That's canons decision block 3rd party lenses and make us jump through hoops to get cheaper glass. At even the R5 price point they won't put in video assist features the s5ii has at 2 thousand dollars. That's exactly how Sony became the monster it is today, canon thinking people will just put up with them segmenting every camera. Meanwhile other companies are giving the consumer what they ask for.

[@stevenbaileytv]

You can adapt virtually any lens to the RF mount. I don't know what you're talking about.

[@DrinkingWithDrewShow]

C70 looked better to me.

Thanks for sharing the test. I was looking at the c70 for a while. Sony shooter at that time but not heavily invested in E lenses. I ended up sticking with sony. However I really like what canon did there and the DGO c70/c300 sensor looks really good in my opinion.

[@jhnyhmnd]

Yeah DGO is awesome, and I'm a big fan of the DR you get with the C300 and C70.

[@PBarry]

Both great cameras. Sony looks more digital though IMO. Canon renders skin tones better.

[@jhnyhmnd]

Totally agree

[@jmasked5082]

I feel this. Since early a7s v1 days I've felt all Sony cams have a very subtle gray veil over the image that creates this feeling of desaturation and milky blacks even when the image is color balanced. The image doesn't have a rounded 'pop' to it, it feels more 2D and more digital like you say. Yet, everyone is on the Sony train in my town, so maybe I'm crazy.

[@jordans.6769]

Cool video! Former FX3, current C70 owner here. Honestly, there’s not a huge difference IMO, but one thing I do prefer about the C70 is the smoother gradation between the mid tones and shadows and I can definitely see that here. For me those little refinements of the image coming out of the C70 sensor put it ahead, but those are not big differences and certainly not ones a client will ever appreciate it 😂

[@jhnyhmnd]

Thanks for sharing! I keep reminding myself that cameras are just tools, and everyone's uses will call for different tools at different times

[@dxgable]

What was the biggest advantage you liked about the c70 over the fx3?

[@jordanshipley448]

@@dxgable hard to pick just one. Overall the image quality and dynamic range on C70 or better. Also built in NDs and internal raw is fantastic. Face only AF is also a big plus for me.

[@louie8488]

sensor size doesn't change the DoF, purely the lens compression as you said with the fx3 at 50mm and the c70 at 35, 50 mm will have a shallower DoF. A full frame sensor doesn't give you magically more DoF over a S35, it's all in the lens. Happy to be proven wrong though

[@jhnyhmnd]

You are correct hahaha, whoops

[@queefreak666]

Sensor size absolutely changes DoF. Why do you think cameras gravitated to larger sensors in the first place? I come from the 2/3" sensor world with broadcast eng cameras, where getting a soft background was always a challenge. When Panasonic came out with the first M4/3 sensor, it changed the game. Then when Canon came out with the 5DmkII in 2009 it blew up the video world for one main reason, Full Frame Sensor, which created the shallowest DoF anybody had ever seen. Sensor size + Lens MM + Aperture = DoF

[@louie8488]

@@queefreak666 how wide did your zoom go on your eng lens? 10mm? (Not being facetious I've never used a brpadcast camera). I don't know the equation with ENG sensor to full frame equivalency, but to get a 50mm full frame angle of view on an ENG you might be using a 15mm lens? That's where your shallow DoF is being lost, not the sensor

[@queefreak666]

@@louie8488 7.8mm on the wide end 136mm at the far end. I know where you're goin with this, but if someone asked the question "If I only keep one prime lens in my bag, that most represents the human eye, which lens should I get?" And the first question that will follow will be, "What size sensor does your camera have?" That being that the size of the sensor is like putting a larger window on the back of your house to see more of your backyard as opposed to putting a wide angle window that distorts the view of the backyard. If you put an 50mm Full Frame lens on an APS-C sensor, you will now get the equivalent of about an 80mm. So I guess it's a matter of semantics, because sensor size always has to be considered in the equation.

[@J_HNP]

With proper color management in post, color science means very little nowadays. Even the image quality from most cameras is similar. For me, workflow is all that matters. Which camera allows you to be more efficient, more consistent, and feels better to work with. Done. With that in mind, the C70 wins… hands down. Better referencing tools, built in ND, built in mic pres… FX6 vs C70 is a much more interesting question. I’m that case, it probably comes down to what glass you have (Sony vs Canon).

[@jhnyhmnd]

Yeah this is such a good take! I'd like to do a comparison between the FX6 and C70 (or even C300 III).

[@doktorr23]

You have to test them side by side in different scenarios/lighting. Only then you will see the differences quite clearly. C70 looks more filmic and fx3 looks kinda digital. Coming from someone who owned both. Love the fx3 for its form factor, full frame and autofocus. Meh lowlight unless you bump it up to 12,800 then it looks good but then you have to stack nd’s and heavy noise reduction makes image kinda plasticky. Still great. C70 has lovely image and internal ND’s which is awesome to have. Super 35 not a bad thing but C70 is a bit huge and clunky. I kept c70 purely for the secret sauce cinematic image and internal Nd’s and monitoring tools like waveform and false color.

[@MrPheelt]

This kind of comment about the FX3 has been debunked already , the creator was shot with the fx3 and one of the reasons was because of high ISO and they used 12800 a lot, the image from the creator doesn’t look plastic.

[@doktorr23]

@@MrPheelt there is nothing to be debunked here. The creator looks amazing but far from something that was shot on say Arri/RED. The C70 to me and lot of other creators (Thomas Kovacic) who own both have the same opinion. All subjective opinions of course. If you own both, shoot on both and see which image you prefer and keep the one you love. Simple 😊

[@nyambe]

The Sony looks fantastic. The great thing is that you can pair down with the FX30 or FX6 to pair up

[@livestreamsuk6004]

Canon skin the best as always

[@ErisedMediaCo]

I like the skin tones on the C70 more. Otherwise, they both produce a great image.

[@brandonlarochelle6354]

vlog camera needs manual focus lol

[@thekp503]

very nice. Thank you

[@davisone76]

C70 all the way.

[@fsb5370]

They are seemingly both good cameras. I do not like the aesthetic feel of FX6 and FX9. The C70 is better for those wanting ND filters, XLR on the camera not with the handle, and a few other things. I like Clog3 better.

[@jhnyhmnd]

Thanks for your input!

[@jrc8484]

ur invested canon already no need switch. focus on productions

[@TJIzzy]

Roll off and skintones were better on the C70 and i've consistently seen this in other lighting.

[@arielshpitzer]

3 Hours Battery. ND. 16 Stops. RAW. LOL Sony LOL !

[@lukastemberger]

Looks like you're using Cannon for the BTS, it's really struggling with focus :)

[@jhnyhmnd]

Yeah we were using the R6, no idea why it was having so many issues with autofocus

[@lukastemberger]

@@jhnyhmnd Because it's not a Sony :)

[@trondhelgehie6771]

C70 all day!

[@arretedechialer410]

Nice joke

[@arretedechialer410]

FX3 all times

[@leventebaumann6001]

Use speedbuster…

[@jhnyhmnd]

Definitely would have if we had access to one at the time!

[@photobritain]

The C70 looks better to me. Don't like the background compression from the Sony, too squishy. Maybe a wider lens on the FX3.

[@MEBoisv]

Great video. They're both great cameras, and it's fair to say that they each win in their own ways. I own an Fx3 and a good friend of mine chose the C70. For me it came down to ergonomics. The Fx3 is nice to hold in my hand, while the C70 is like holding a brick.

[@jhnyhmnd]

Well said, thanks for watching!

[@contentm3893]

Canon has the better color and image. The colors are still off with Sony when compared to the clean color from Canon.

[@jhnyhmnd]

Appreciate your take on it!

[@Conyak101]

Loving the fx3, will definitely explore the fx ecosystem. Thanks for the comparison.

[@seven_yellow]

Easily adjusted; it just looks like a simple grade with a rec709 conversion. It is probably more true to tone from actual day though.

[@jhnyhmnd]

@@seven_yellowcorrect, this was a rec709 conversion. We didn’t apply any extra grade on them to keep it as close to true color as possible.

[@lukastemberger]

How do you know it's off? Were you in the room to know which one is more true to life out of the box? I prefer the FX look, but they're so similar, it's easy to get any look in this kind of a controlled situation with either of them. I'm an FX guy with an FX6 and FX30 and there are many other advantages to the FX line.

[@castielvargastv7931]

the canon looks soft and outdated

[@jhnyhmnd]

Thanks for your thoughts