Capitalism Has Mutated Into Something Worse with Yanis Varoufakis - Factually! - 247

Capitalism has changed. A century ago, capitalists amassed untold wealth by building and manufacturing goods, but today, our economy appears to be dominated by massive tech corporations that don't actually produce anything at all. Instead, these tech giants offer platforms-such as search engines, AI, or marketplaces-through which they extract profits from users. Adam speaks with Yanis Varoufakis, former finance minister of Greece, about his book Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism, exploring how this new form of capitalism jeopardizes our livelihoods and what measures we can take to safeguard our future from big tech. Find Yanis's book at at factuallypod.com/books
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[@TheAdamConover]

Go to thrivemarket.com/FACTUALLY for 30% off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift! Support the show on Patreon: www.patreon.com/adamconover See Adam on tour: www.adamconover.net/tourdates/

[@OblivionOdditiesProjectStudios]

They're a company that's designed like a union & operating in a similar fashion as Shawn Fain his UAW. By supporting start up companies like Oblivion Oddities Project Studios who are trying to push for Social Capitalism who want better societies. Companies that use their money to create shelters for the homeless, gardens, & more. Hell they want to create community studios that give free education.

[@OblivionOdditiesProjectStudios]

Social Capitalism is the solution! It's the only form of Capitalism that's both Moral & Ethical!

[@thoughtfuloutsider]

Adam... I see Republican folks there counter-argue against people say usa 🇺🇸 is a democracy by saying it's a Republic. What do they mean? Is it worth a program, I think?

[@markmorfesse8080]

As Yanis said, it is in the link. https : Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure. Yanis is the dream interviewee, ask a question and he is off for 10 minutes of brilliant exposition.

[@wendwllhickey6426]

Uber calla cab better service

[@jamesdempsey1330]

He breezed right past it, but it's downright lovely that Yanis said the MOST important thing : These monsters cannot be trained to behave. The reigns must be /Taken/ and the value being Extracted redistributed to the people of the world. Because all belongs to all.

[@Praisethesunson]

Exactly. The rich never gave away power willingly. They surrendered small bits while kicking and screaming.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

yes, power never gives up without a fight. nature of the beast (corruption).

[@grindcoreninja6527]

It would probably take violence, and rational people would rather not spend the rest of their lives in prison, the government isn't going to do anything about it, so, we can be angry, but there's nothing anyone is going to do about it except enjoy the last few years we have left before everything is a subscription service.

[@mrhefner01]

Anyone else seriously troubled that historically this generally only happens via massive bloodshed and revolution...? I feel like we should be beyond this, but human greed combined with what id call a completely lack of empathy and distance too great to relate to those they are affecting leaves me thinking this doesnt change without history repeating in a horrible way.

[@jameseglavin4]

Hell yeah dude

[@jbroskito]

Gives “serf”-ing the web a whole new meaning

[@thekingoffailure9967]

Hell yeah

[@DaMorg3]

🙌 😉 😂 😭

[@markmorfesse8080]

Yeah, us ordinary scmucks should be getting paid to handle the stresses of social media.

[@abrahamhempel9260]

nice pun

[@hollandscottthomas]

Underrated comment

[@waynebernitt2806]

A quote I found somewhere that helped me understand the system "If you use the internet and it costs you nothing.... YOU are the product".

[@andreiz82]

Exactly. And this video is free 🤫

[@joshlewis575]

When is the internet free though? I gotta pay for it to have it in my house and on my phone.

[@IDBrunoMota]

I guess he tried to say "if you use something in the internet that is free, you are the product." You "pay" them with your time (or data idk) in that free app or site or whatever. Is not free for the "sake of being free".

[@paulblyde2175]

The 1st lesson people should be taught in life is nothing is free. You will pay one way or another, you may not even be aware you have paid until further down the road. Hindsight is always 20/20..but some are so blind they never see how they pay, which is a sad state of affairs, they just accept life isn't fair. Perhaps being ignorant to the point is a blessing for them. 🤯🙊🙉🙈

[@vebdaklu]

​​@@paulblyde2175So, if I ask a stranger on the street what time it is, or they Help me with something else - I have to pay? What about people who ask for food - I have several Times bought food for strangers who asked me, and I didn't charge them for it...was I supposed to, for the sake of your mantra being true?

[@Other3.5]

The irony (one of many) is that when Adam Smith (so very often called upon to validate capitalism as it currently functions) referred to the "Free Market" - he meant free from rents. Rents meaning monies extracted for no productive work or contribution.

[@jessehamilton4223]

Underrated comment, did you actually make it through the entire book wealth of nations? I made a solid attempt but reading ledgers written in ways we no longer speak was just too painful

[@BiscuitDelivery]

​@@jessehamilton4223 I read through the entire work over a weekend when I was taking government in high school. It's not as long as it seems, about as long as your average Harry Potter novel and I see people chew through one of those in a day or so.

[@guteksan]

@@BiscuitDelivery It's not the length in pages for a book that counts, but the amount of information and its difficulty to process. Harry Potters, like all other child fiction, are easy to digest. Those monumental books on economy or history, like Wealth of Nations, make you stop every page and think for a good while on what you have just read. If you are not doing it, and reading it just like you would read HP, you are actually just browsing and might as well not read it at all.

[@fridge3489]

​@guteksan totally agree that a book's length does not determine its digestibility. Can you imagine if it did?

[@TinaMcCall.]

To all those "mad" at Yanis: Spare the messenger. Direct your anger towards the systems that oppress you, not towards the man helping you to see them. I am in NO way blaming people. I am exhorting them to use their power (LABOR and/or its withdrawal) so we can begin to stop the machine crushing us.

[@TinaMcCall.]

@@alexandertownsend5079 You poor, unimaginative soul. I'm not blaming the people. I'm exorting them to use the power they have (LABOR), so we can ALL live the solarpunk future of our dreams. The machine currently crushing us will stop only when we stop giving it our active labor, and our tacit consent.

[@Praisethesunson]

It's also safer. If I go after the board members of hedge funds the CIA will stick me in a black site ​@@alexandertownsend5079

[@TheXello]

@@alexandertownsend5079 You may want a /s. Remember there are people who really are really dumb and you don't want to be confused for them.

[@tobywindgassen8427]

​@@alexandertownsend5079 all blaming does is shift the responsibility on someone else. That's why there's an inverse relationship between blame and accountability.

[@aeremthirteen2771]

When will the left or even the plebs actually collectivize? We talk and performatively protest and write this stuff, but then what? We can't organize like an actual organization, and we dont have oligarch access to do so and maintain it.

[@counterflow5719]

We must demand a digital Bill of Rights. I want complete control over my data and I want a cut of the money generated by my data. Among other rights.

[@SolidAir54321]

Well the closest I can think of is the policy Marianne Williamson is advocating for which is an economic Bill of Rights. But the DNC would not give her a chance.

[@rey82rey82]

Secure the votes to pass it

[@gabrielsatter]

I don't know. I kinda like tapping on godawful ads for products I'll never buy just to mess with their algorithms. It's not like they actually make money off me, in fact i cost them in the end, but I suppose I'm a special case.

[@morricane5087]

There is a fun little idea in the book Angrynomics which proposes that the state should charge big tech in order to be allowed to use the various data of their citizens and use that money to provide a certain baseline income to each citizen. Basically instead of them more-or-less-legally (and comprehensively) already using this very data, make it official but charge for it.

[@counterflow5719]

It's the job of congress to "fix" the digital world we all live in. It's unbelievable that they haven't come up with a digital bill of rights by now. WTF are we paying them for!?

[@Sarah-re7cg]

I’m a comp sci major. I will say something that scares the shit out of me is just how far reaching Amazon and Google are. One of my classes is in cloud computing, another in network communication, honestly I think these are fundamental courses that people today need to be taking because it helps you actually absorb what the hell is going on around you and how.

[@quixomega]

I'm not convinced that this isn't just the inevitable end state of the capitalist system. If you optimize for profit over everything it eventually crushes everything else.

[@temple69]

Yup. This is all inherent to the capitalist mode of production. Marx predicted much of this stuff.

[@JorgeMiguel147]

Capitalism has never been so alive my friend

[@chrisbova9686]

Someone knows the music is about to stop and everyone else has forgotten the whole game is about keeping a place for their --- when it goes silent.

[@Sjoerd1993]

Wow, you've got Yanis Varoufakis on the show. I keep getting pleasantly surprised by the people you bring on, this is bound to be a good one!

[@ferdinandschrott6973]

Yanis Varoufakis openly supports the genocide of the Ukrainian people.

[@aegon123]

To be fair Greece isn't exactly known for it's sound economic policy

[@SlickSimulacrum]

@@aegon123, To be fair Yanis quit the job when they told him to hurt the economy of Greece. Cupcake! Some people are simply smarter and better read than you Cupcake.

[@mrhefner01]

I guess a complete economic collapse is hard to ignore? lol @@aegon123

[@DJDiskmachine]

Aegon i think you need more Varoufakis in your life 😅😅😅

[@wildwasteland5821]

Makes sense why all of these companies are pushing AI so hard, aside from the hype bubble, this stuff also serves to dilute the value of each individual contributor to the system by flooding it with facsimiles.

[@down-to-earth-mystery-school]

And stealing the labor of artists, writers and content creators

[@franjkav]

These AI systems currently make it basically impossible to hold anyone (any company) responsible when they inevitably cause harm (as they already are)

[@freedomdude5420]

This is what happens in Rome with the salves, if they do this in US, it will guarantee a fall. If, but will fall.

[@sinfoid]

@@down-to-earth-mystery-school Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't go more into that when they were talking about free labor. The amount of labor they steal from everyone via their shitty chatbots and image generation is order of magnitudes larger than the amount of free labor they get from someone writing a review.

[@sperzieb00n]

Real problem is that automation should work for everyone, and not just for a small wealthy group of individiuals, whatever the nature of the automation, the idea that labor can be stolen is a nasty side effect it self of unchecked capitalism, because suits get to control the labour while reaping nearly all its benefits. Take spotify... they basically pay existence ransom to warner, to the point that as spotify artist you're basically making warner rich in the first place, while needing to pay a middleman to even be on the platform, and not even making a millionth of a cent per play yourself... responsibility was dodged by big corpo just fine without modern AI, but no "artist" seems to care about that.

[@totonow6955]

When all of us say, " but what can we do?" then THIS is the man to listen to, learn from and READ. He has real ideas to help us. 90% state money...state money is us, ours...not - insert the Cloudalists' name here.

[@KnallisSillan]

Omg I was arrogantly thinking to myself when I saw the title of this video, "yeah what are you going to compare it to feudalism? No one ever does that I wish I could convince people of that, no one ever makes that comparison." I am both deeply relieved and humbled and embarrassed over myself to see 2 minutes in that the topic is literally called technofeudalism! Omg the dopamine rush is amazing~ I felt like I've been going crazy telling people that capitalism ends in feudalism for like years. I am so excited to watch the rest and get a way better and more refined take on that rather than my layman's perspective.

[@saturationstation1446]

lots of honest critical thinkers call our modern world neo feudalism. because if you are honest and critical when analyzing our situation, thats the only truthful conclusion you can come to. but our culture demands we arrange our lives around the feelings/egos of well off eurocentric people, and if you point out anything that even remotely removes personal responsibility from their fortunes, you get called jealous, crazy, a communist etc etc. ffs, we live in a system that only functions because of lots of people participating in it. the notion of self made anything is actually psychotic. because we dont live in a vacuum. and if all our laws, businesses and economic distribution systems are designed by wealthy eurocentrics for the purpose of improving the fortunes of wealthy eurocentrics, and most critically, done without equal influence of all parties involved or even measurable influence of all involved, it can ONLY be feudalism. we live in a system designed by and for people that are not us. a system solely based on prioritizing making rich people richer and ignoring the state of anyone or anything elses well being. then i remember that there are literal monarchies in europe who call themselves the best democracies on earth and i lose hope for our species because most well off people repeat that same blatant falsehood.

[@user-og1rv6sr8e]

These men are the true "Welfare Queens". In early 2000s I was in real estate. I saw first hand the extreme risk they were taking on. I thought it would end with these banks failing. The market would reset. I was sooooooo naive.

[@07Flash11MRC]

Banks never fail. They are always saved by taxpayer money and on top of that they count us saving them as furthering our debt.

[@charlesmiller8107]

Corporations are the true welfare queens.

[@charlesmiller8107]

A number of banks has failed recently. It is the large too big to fail banks that get bailed out with taxpayer money.@@07Flash11MRC

[@joeldwest]

Our taxes went to enrich them. The richest need to pay BIG TAXES

[@dognextdoor]

It seems a massive theft of public funds occurs every 10 years or so. Think of the money that was legislated into existence and then disappeared during Covid. Exponentially larger than in 2008 and global in scale. Politicians are the robber barons of our modern age. Disasters are their greatest opportunities.

[@JohnHall]

TBH, seeing the "Thrive" ad in the middle of a conversation hosted on KZbin about digital fiefdoms is a reminder of the entire topic.

[@kzinful]

@JohnHall I'm so laughing at this, because this is the ( not so hidden irony) of the reality of this discussion, and there is Adam talking about his girlfriends chickpea pasta.

[@cetriyasArtnComicsChannel]

​@@kzinfullol

[@michaelbell1155]

I'm listening to this as a sociology student, like holy shit in ten years other students will look back on this and say it's obvious. But it's really such a revolutionary way of looking at where we are right now. I'm going to buy this book and be absolutely annoying to all my lecturers

[@theprophet489]

Also buy the book 1984 by George Orwell

[@justingirard7476]

Thank you for your service. You will also enjoy David Graber then!!

[@saturationstation1446]

its not even revolutionary. its just honest and critical analysis. we just live in a culture where prioritizing the feelings/egos of rich people is the main mode of behavior, so we are used to being extremely dishonest about everything in order to not upset their delicate little fee fees. want to test this? just go to any person in the UK (or most of europe tbh) and tell them that a monarch appointing all the officials who have the most say in what happens with laws means they dont live in anything close to a democracy. they'll flip their lids and of course, look down their noses at you, call you uncivilized and unsophisticated etc. they will do anything but address the factual statement you made about their monarchy government.

[@thebourgeoispunk]

Adam complimented Yanis really well in this episode, bringing out new aspects of this issue than i usually hear in yanis interviews. Well done

[@nikoflow_fm9541]

Yanis is a fantastic author too. His books were some of the first political books I read, I thought they’d be boring af but i finished em in a few days. captivating works

[@markmorfesse8080]

Yeah, that's what happened with me and 'Another Now', brilliant ideas.

[@kylezo]

100%, he is brilliant.

[@Leftistattheparty]

Capitalists don't make anything. Workers do. Capitalists steal surplus value.

[@senaesul3128]

Who organizes the workers?

[@Gobbldeegoo1]

@@senaesul3128managers. Which are also workers.

[@senaesul3128]

@@Gobbldeegoo1 What do manager's make that's categorically different than what the CEO of a company makes?

[@3nertia]

@@senaesul3128 What is your actual argument here? The same tired regurgitated rhetoric about how we somehow need capitalists to organize us? We have instantaneous global communication - your argument is invalid :)

[@senaesul3128]

@@spitt3640 CEO's don't interact with managers?

[@exipolar]

“Engagement is Labor” is the lightbulb idea I needed today

[@bicyclist2]

I'm a big fan of Janis. I discovered him after watching several great financial documentaries. I highly recommend watching, America Freedom to Fascism, The Corporation, Confessions of a Economic Hitman, The Secret of Oz, and Zeitgist Addendum. I hope many more people watch this video, and take him very seriously. Thank you.

[@kdbin101-1]

He could extend this argument to those companies that still produce "tangible capital" too - notice how Apple never actually innovates its devices, it just relies on consumer behaviour to sell. Or even the Stanley Cup hype, there's nothing unique or innovative about it, the whole system just relies on manipulating consumer behaviour with algorithms and ads.

[@PoppoYoppo]

Apple does it worse they wait for smaller more innovative companies to introduce a technology in a good way and then copy it with a small twist and sell it to consumers as new and innovative

[@toyotaprius79]

Don't forget the money laundering IP and tax evasion tricks that they hold Ireland hostage under

[@3nertia]

Welcome to capitalism - Profits over People!

[@devilmikey00]

@@PoppoYoppo Just look at the vision pro. It exists SOLELY to create hype and fomo. Apple knows a $3500 VR headset isn't going to sell a lot but it's influencer bait. Tens of thousands of videos and posts of obnoxious idiots showing off how cool it is so Apple can manipulate people into spending money when the cheaper crappier $1000-$1500 dollar version comes out later this year or next year. That cheaper version will also conveniently need a brand new Iphone to power it since it almost certainly won't be stand alone like the Vision pro. That's product synergy right there. It's all an insidious behavior manipulation tactic. All that to sell people a VR headset that does LESS than most other cheaper VR headsets. Even what it can claim as unique and new is impractical and niche. Doesn't matter though because Apple did it and people have been trained to believe that matters.

[@Davids_Stalidzans]

Says something about our.. susiety though that we fall to these ads and manipulations.

[@brookejon3695]

As if capitalism wasn't bad enough, now we have to deal with this?

[@ThisIsANameBruh]

If you thought Capitalism was bad wait till you get a load of Capitalism 2

[@Leftistattheparty]

@@ThisIsANameBruh The market is so efficient.

[@3nertia]

We literally have an entire genre dedicated to describing what a dystopian nightmare technology will become under capitalism and it's called "cyberpunk" ;)

[@Szcza04]

The Industrial Revolution and it’s consequences

[@Quadr44t]

@@ThisIsANameBruh well played. I almost spit out my drink reading this.

[@codica666]

Always a pleasure to hear and see Yanis Varoufakis. An exceendingly smart man. One of the few shining lights in the economics profession.

[@virginiemasai9024]

It is his profession to identify who agrees with what he saya whilst he serves the other side!😢

[@booz394]

How fitting that someone with 666 in their profile likes Marxist ideology .

[@digitalartsi]

I've been saying we exist as data serfs for a while now. Nice to see I'm not the only one who has latched on to this theory.

[@Dug252]

Literally everything is becoming some kind of subscription or rental. We will definitely not be the ones owning nothing and being happy about it.

[@soliniv1411]

Back to feudalism it is then

[@SolidAir54321]

It's ironic isn't it. Because the reason people are so afraid of socialism is because they think it's where the government takes your stuff. Check out the video by Second Thought about Why You Don't Own Anything Under Capitalism.

[@jameseglavin4]

💯, I know the “subscription heated seats” thing was a rich-guy stunt from last year but IMO that was just some subcontracted marketing company testing the waters and introducing the idea in order to soften up the population for such exploitation to be later be rolled out (probably sooner than later, too)

[@SpoopySquid]

​@@jameseglavin4they learned from the videogame industry

[@IncognitoSprax]

​@@jameseglavin4 Thankfully there's hundreds of thousands of older cars out there that are good enough to not need to buy the new ones that will eventually that.

[@nickelbutt]

The US is one logical step from feudalism. We got to protect workers rights, or get ready to become serfs.

[@Praisethesunson]

Socialism or barbarism isn't a choice. It is a description of what your life is and spoiler. You live in barbarism.

[@jacksonfurlong3757]

They already are serfs in all but name

[@craigmak]

@@jacksonfurlong3757serfs that own a home, have a 401k & multiple cars? I wouldn’t call that serfdom.

[@benjiboy69420]

​​​​​@@craigmakuh most people do not have 401k's and multiple cars, and most people CERTAINLY dont own a home...

[@benjiboy69420]

​@@craigmakand you know what? but even if they did have a 401k or own 2 cars or whatnot, this is a FOX newsass talking point. It's along the lines of Bill Oreily back in the day saying "How can people complain about inequality when they have fridges now?". The analogy of capitalism to feudalism isn't 1=1, but it sure is a lot closer than you smugly insist.

[@blu0065]

31:30 I paused for a moment here to witness the nostalgic joy on Yanis' face. It's nice that he took us onto a journey into the past for a look at what the original architects of the internet envisioned before the cloudalists took over and begun creating cloud feudalism.

[@hippymoustacherides]

This was the most enlightening KZbin video Ive seen in ages. It really ties together many frustrations I find myself and others dealing with. All the better there is a clear path to a viable solution that would benefit people everywhere and level the playing field. 🤯

[@jimread2354]

I'm 25 minutes in before I realize he's saying "cloud fiefs" not "cloud thieves" which really changes the tone of the conversation 😅

[@sergeyn.syritsyn6748]

to me it did not

[@SpoopySquid]

And this is how I learned lol

[@leona2222]

Same same

[@Jkjoannaki]

Took me till I read this comment, I thought he was using thieves as feudal lords

[@christheghostwriter]

I kind of thought Adam should have clarified that early on. I picked up on "fief" in the context of the conversation, but it's not a common word these days and I figured that it probably sounded like "thief" or "thieves" to many viewers

[@breadfan7433]

A friend of mine had taken a class by Varoufakis when he was just a professor that very few people knew. He says that he was admired by everyone at the university. The man has in depth knowledge of the subjects he teaches, is always kind and respectful to his students, and, most importantly, he has a unique ability to make the subject matter both understandable and exciting. Whether one shares his political views or not, this is something rare and worthy of respect, and he is worth listening to.

[@jameseglavin4]

Aww that rocks

[@joeldwest]

Even when neo-Nazis attacked Yanis and gave him a black eye, this modest man kept his word to appear at speaking engagement, swollen and bruised, he still SHOWED UP. BRAVE YANIS.

[@keithparker1346]

I agree. It's always interesting, not using loads of jargon and you do not have to agree with all his opinions

[@Caligula138]

​@@joeldwest They were not "Neo Nazis" He said so himself.

[@Peace2051]

This is a real eye opener especially since the Atlantic Council thinktank recently had a public Zoom on getting US federal government storage systems "AI ready" for all sorts of algorithms no doubt.

[@hypnoamber3248]

Wow this interview was truly eye opening and coalesced so many thoughts I've been having lately as an anarchist. I'm subbed now even though I've watched you for a long time this interview truly sold me. So very cool

[@Papadopoulos-George]

i am greek and i still feel proud when i first bought yanis global minotaur book.. when yanis writes you can't find a single unnecessary word in his sentence!

[@truedarklander]

As Greek, why do you think yanis seems to have a better time being politically influential outside of Greece than inside? Seems to be loosing put to the KKE, NA and even PASOK

[@Papadopoulos-George]

@@truedarklander we as Greek use to do that.. we've done the same thing to Socrates!

[@Ghost_In_a_Sock]

@@truedarklander Anyone who gets his hands in politics in Greece is ruined. Greece is ruled by corrupted police, corrupted politicians and mafia. The reputation of our institutions is abysmal. Yanis tried to do the right thing by chipping in at a difficult time by joining "SYRIZA" to serve as financial minister but the party's now ex leader (ex prime minister Alexis Tsipras) made a disastrous decision in 2015 and Greece's left popularity is still on a downward spiral from back then. So his reputation is forever tainted even if he immediately resigned and left the party the people still have a foggy and bitter taste of that memory. Moreover, people are completely convinced on the incompetence of the Greek government. They keep voting for rightwing parties that use the same old tricks again and again: promise the voters "gifts" then take 40x the amount. At the moment in our parliement we literally have 4 parties that are exactly the same just with different aesthetics.

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

He literally imposed the Troika's cuts on Greece and he comes from an elite Greek family

[@truedarklander]

@@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp no he didn't? He left the government when tsipras agreed to the troika's terms

[@klaatoris]

Under the hood, the Internet still runs on Linux and open source software, and would be completely impossible without it. So Big Tech is continuously profiting on (1) the free labour of enthusiasts, (2) the harvesting and selling of our personal data. Pipe dream for the show: an interview with Shoshana Zuboff.

[@tinoyb9294]

Don't forget your 401k.

[@klaatoris]

@@tinoyb9294 I'm not familiar with 401k as I am not American. What about it?

[@tinoyb9294]

@Eboreg it is a bit complicated to explain here. You will need to investigate it. It is a program to save money by putting it in the stock market with deferred taxes instead of investing locally. Makes stock prices go up and billionaires richer since they own the vast majority of stocks and bonds. The average person has to hope the stock market doesn't crash when it is their time to retire. It pretty much replaced pensions.

[@klaatoris]

@@tinoyb9294 Thanks. I guess we have something similar here in Sweden. You won't get very far on just the state financed pensions.

[@tinoyb9294]

@@klaatoris it also replaced pensions from private companies as well.

[@richarddebono7092]

Thank you for telling people. Technocracy makes capitalism look like heaven.

[@charismahornum-fries691]

What a mental treat listening to Yanis. He is phenomenal and an avid Star Trek geek. His latest book is well-written too.😊

[@jumpbcb]

Yanis is an amazing thinker, thanks a lot Adam!

[@raylopez99]

Yeah he's pretty smart too...last I checked he left Greece for the UK/France (speaking as somebody who visits GR all the time, lol). As for his thesis "capitalism is dead" it makes for a great headline but actually all he seems to be talking about is imperfect competition, meaning you don't have "Adam Smith" type textbook "perfect competition" (which has hardly ever existed in the real world).

[@BalkanGod23]

@@raylopez99 go watch interviews where he talks about his book specifically...its not ''imperfect competition''. Its about macro economics...these cloud fiefdoms are not sustainable long-term. And guess who will pay or who pays for their riches...us.

[@IanZainea1990]

10:42 Amazon is a company town, but virtual. "You can have anything you want! As long as it goes through *me*"

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

And because most of the Web runs on AWS, the entire online space is renting from Amazon. It was an absolute _blunder_ on the part of the other tech giants for allowing Amazon to swallow up this market.

[@WonderfulWorldofAwesomeness]

Amazon is being destroyed by resellers selling ikea furniture and shein goods, just like Etsy. This whole libertarian deregulation thing is working out great 🙄

[@xenocampanoli815]

The right to accumulation being both unjust, but more importantly inefficient, is indeed one of the biggest mis-allocation problems. It happens because of greed, but it also happens because it is easier to let it happen than other things. We need to be aware of both of those sides of the problem to make better policy.

[@sigmacentauri6191]

I love this guy he has a patient grandfatherly kind of wisdom. Papou Yani.

[@down-to-earth-mystery-school]

PayPal is another example, they received investment capital to create their platform, then extract rent at all aspects of the transaction.

[@damham5689]

The internet and its main backbone structure we all use today was conceived, designed, and built all on the taxpayers dime. Most if not all the coding formats used to create the programs that are used everywhere were created by universities with taxpayer grant money or by individuals who gave the code away as freeware. Taxpayers pay for it, cRapitalist take it and profit from it. Same as with many pharmaceuticals. Created in universities on the taxpayer dime, taken by big pharma to profit from.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

brought to you by neoliberalism and globalists. make everything into a commodity subject to arbitrage.

[@sarahmanalapan8443]

This is the greates problem with our system.

[@mhh0111]

Many, if not most, of the products of our economy, whether physical or intellectual or digital, were conceived, designed, and built by generations of people combining work and ideas, and then someone with the money and means to play the system decides to "own" it and profit from it. The internet and medicine are some of the most glaring examples of which.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

You also have to keep in mind that without roads, electrical grid, Internet and Internet networks, which were all funded by the government. Amazon would not have made 1 cent.

[@kitburns1665]

Airports, Post Office. . . .Legal System.

[@ZestyBestie01]

Wow, that was genuinely eye opening. Thanks Adam, for this conversation.

[@user-vi6ro8bd4l]

What would a conversation between he ans Sapolsky be like? Sapolsky has thought deeply about what he calls the cruelty "... of our invention of poverty."

[@caracrabtree715]

Feudal land owners was the whole point of “income tax”, was to tax the land owners on the income they were accumulating through renting use on their land, to prevent them becoming more powerful. It wasn’t originally meant for labor income. Someone along the way didn’t want the people to become self sufficient on their own land and have a sense of power, by not requiring dependency on factories and banks. If the people were required to pay an income tax, they would have to work for someone else as in a factory or company to pay the tax. To make everyone work even more, leave no time for self sufficiency, convinced to buy all the products, convinced that they’re needed. So now they have labor and customers.

[@gnice8765]

Other than using the word they way to much you come closer than most here. The last "they" you referred to was the state. The main obstacle in the way of free market capitalism.

[@EarlHare]

The juxtaposition of the intro and the immediate patreon plug was just *chefkiss* How better to nail home this concept.

[@NonEuclideanTacoCannon]

There are certain things we all must buy like laundry detergent, and if I see a laundry detergent ad a sufficient number of times that it annoys me, I will never buy that brand again. I wonder if the algorithm takes that into account, and shows me ads for every other brand of laundry detergent such that I fall into their trap and buy the one they didn't advertise, and it was reverse-advertising the whole time. Anyway I'm so poor that it's like a superpower. Ads don't work if you don't have any money (points at head)

[@thekingoffailure9967]

This is Exactly how I feel about targeted advertising. “The algorithm will serve you more relevant ads for things you actually want, not unrelated BS” is the positive spin they give for data collection. However it doesnt matter how cool or useful or necessary to my life the ads are…. they are irrelevant because I can barely afford to buy stuff secondhand, let alone new, let alone new and online with shipping fees. The ads will never work because I simply cannot buy anything.

[@pinkpearl1967]

Company: "Here's our product! You'll love it! Buy it today!" Me: "F**k you."

[@unlimitedpower0]

The problem with this thinking is that the algorithm isn't actually trying to sale you anything, they are being paid to serve an ad, not sale a product. It doesn't matter if you despise literally every product you see an add for, Google already got paid. Plus they know that eventually you will look for a product online either to buy or to find reviews and when you do they sale the top slots on their search engine to the highest bidder so they still can claim to drive sales. Lastly you are a very small part of all the people using the internet so the only need just an equally small amount of money from you and add it to that amount they get from everyone else's data.

[@happylistener0]

DIY laundry detergent involves washing soda, fels naphtha soap, & borax. I haven't seen an ad for any of those in decades. Lots of instructions on the internet.

[@ramisegal6905]

Ads are a tax loophole

[@Imbatmn57]

Its ridiculous how expensive things on the Internet are,its almost 300 dollars for an easel that i could get at a surplus store for 40 bucks, its really sad that i have to hunt for individual creators on KZbin because the firat ten pages of google are ads for corporations. Its not fair competition, people can't influence the market if they don't know these small businesses exist, so therefore feel like they have to buy cheaply made crap that is often outrageously priced or give their money to a company that sells cheaper cheaply made crap made by slave labor. Please look at surplus stores and local shops before you buy something so you know if the price is fair.

[@franjkav]

I don’t condone the current functionality but the search results have to be sorted in some type of way. Every option is basically arbitrary

[@benjiboy69420]

Yep, always search buy and sells or surplus stores. Developing local circular economies is an important thing to do, and it helps you individually as well -- and on top of that you end up finding sick deals, and that feelsgoodman! Me and my partner have an aquantince who liquidates hotel/motel furniture when they do renovation, and you can get near perfect condition smart TV's and couches for like $50-$100 each, lamps for pennies on the dollar, all sorts of furniture -- and then we filled in everything else we needed by going to consignment stores and thrift shops. We were able to furnish our place for a fraction of the cost getting things new, especially by today's standards.

[@elowin1691]

@@franjkav Just because there is no theoretical perfect solution doesn't mean there aren't better or worse solutions. This is a worse solution.

[@rjk1404]

Mr. Varoufakis is one of the most intelligent economic thinkers I know. Thank you Mr. Varoufakis for being yourself and for sharing your wisdom. If I would be a pol. leader, I'd would be honored to have him as minister.

[@nickwilliams8302]

Always a treat to listen to Yanis Varoufakis. He's always got his eye on issues bigger than the headlines.

[@erayskirata6716]

Marx, Lenin, and Stalin called what's happening now a long time ago. This is still capitalism, it's just the endgame that it was working towards the whole time.

[@erayskirata6716]

I also want to point out landlords still don't provide anything, exactly like their feudal counterparts.

[@ringtail99]

can i make a point how do you do Socialism without it leading to a dictator marx led to Hilter

[@Jkjoannaki]

​@erayskirata6716 my grandad built a house near a beach by himself (construction worker). He was renting it when he wasn't living in it. I thought land lords built their houses and rented them bc of the money and effort it cost to build them for the longest time, till middle school when I realized what was happening. I'm from Greece and it's lately that we've become a neoliberal hellhole after a fascist dictatorship. Till then, most people built their own homes, by themselves. Like my grandad.

[@AbtinX]

Yes I agree. With one added component; the exporting of manufacturing to the imperial subjects and leaving the management in the hands of imperialist capital. And then the subjects seize the means of production leaving the system in boundless contradictions. Do you see it too or am I simply wrong?

[@foodchewer]

​@@JkjoannakiThat sounds beautiful. Building your own home, your own blood and sweat, sometimes tears. Something truly yours, for you and your family, and family to come. Another stolen future.

[@cloudmane4159]

Last few interviews have been incredibly thought provoking. Its very pleasurable to listen to. Thank you!

[@emilysevastou5075]

Yanis Varoufakis is the Super Star of economics right now in our world💖

[@marshall5912]

This is why I’m a socialist. Capitalism, if left to its own devices, inevitably recreates the Feudal Lord-Serf dynamic. Economic inequality leads to political inequality. And political inequality is the root of authoritarianism. The more power is concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the more authoritarian a political system is.

[@jaredleemease]

Oh my goodness…Yanis and Adam, two of my favorite people. Thank you. 🏜️🕺🏻🐕🏖️

[@ReivecS]

This might be the best episode you have done yet. This has given me A LOT to think about and examine in my day to day life more so than 99.99% of other content I have watched anywhere. This is a really interesting argument and I plan to put a lot more thought into these ideas.

[@user-dv4go6se7u]

From the consumer, to the consumed. Human life has absolutely no value anymore. I've given up on expecting us to do anything to help ourselves.

[@scottspa74]

One of the best guests that can be had when talking economics and politics !

[@kuakilyissombroguwi]

Yanis is the definitive G.O.A.T. A great leader with crazy levels of integrity. Thanks for putting this video up!

[@peteralexander6619]

He is E good academic but a disastrous politician and an egomaniac

[@alexandrospatsikos2549]

yeah, he's great and all when he's abroad. he has all his intellectual friends and elite scholars in all the universities. exactly like Elizabeth Warren. Meanwhile, back in Greece he has created an egomaniac party, just to brand himself internationally, and effectively breaking up the radical left into more tiny pieces, instead of uniting and defeating the ultra-right wing. In two elections in a row he has done enough damage so that now the New Democracy right-wing government is able to enjoy a supermajority. Unfortunately he has zero real connection with the Left on the ground or unions. He's basically a celebrity going around on KZbin channels while having real contempt for Greek or poor people. But you would never know that because you don't speak Greek and in English he has a different persona when he is with his wealthy peers. Just google 'varoufakis photoshoot paris match'. He later apologized about it because I guess it hurts his "brand"

[@Jomchen]

@@peteralexander6619 Would be interested to know your reasoning

[@devilmikey00]

I've never thought about my digital identity in that way before and it made me incredibly depressed.

[@SolidAir54321]

Yes, and at this part he said instead of having to call Uber why can't I just get on some public app and say I want to get from here to there and have companies bid on it. I never would have thought of that.

[@Jayare175]

@@SolidAir54321 because that's insane gibberish that doesn't mean anything is why. Why would there be a platform in an app where companies "bid"(34:30) to take you when they already have their own apps? And what are they bidding on? What for? A contract where they will earn billions of dollars? These companies won't do that because it doesn't make sense for anybody involved.

[@florentin4061]

Don’t forget this is exactly what they want

[@Jayare175]

@@SolidAir54321 because that doesn't mean anything is why. Why would there be a platform in an app where companies "bid"(34:30) to take you when they already have their own apps? And what are they bidding on? What for? A contract where they will earn billions of dollars? These companies won't do that because it doesn't make sense for anybody involved.

[@annaandre9131]

Same 😢

[@ansoc1173]

It's labor that builds and manufactures goods. He paints a rosy picture of what Capitalism use to be, what it "can" be, but the system has always been about exploiting those who are not lucky enough to be born into money (or ruthless enough to exploit thousands of people for their labor). What we have now is because governments and society have doubled and tripled down on a system that CANNOT persist due to it's inherent contradictions, one being that you cannot have perpetual growth and profit on a planet with finite resources (the exploitation of which is making said planet uninhabitable for life as we know it).

[@esmaanderson1802]

This was a phenomenal interview. And super important discussion. I want my dividends yesterday already!

[@Astrologon]

Listening some more to this and "serfing the web" is never going to sound the same again.

[@kapoioBCS]

I think you also missed the opportunity to talk about the ‘’shareholders market’’ and the fact that it does not matter anymore if people are satisfied with products/services etc and only matters the opinion of shareholders, stock market and hedge funds. Also the housing market!

[@3nertia]

Welcome to capitalism - Profits over People!

[@Praisethesunson]

Even shareholders opinions don't matter if they challenge the status quo. Exxon is suing it's shareholders because shareholders want to vote to put preventing climate change over short term profits.

[@grumpyoldman6503]

maybe... just maybe, not everything should be a commodity for the 'free market' to operate on? maybe?

[@3nertia]

@@grumpyoldman6503 The mistake is to believe that the market is "free" heh

[@grumpyoldman6503]

@@3nertia absolutely, in the long term and in the presence of competition (you know, the good part of capitalism economists like to dwell on because it's a good fairy tale where costs go down and quality goes up), profit trends towards zero. capitalists are interested in monopoly and rents, not competition (also subsidy, which is leveraged via corruption of political power).

[@moeddan85]

Sooo good. Yanis is the greatest political mind of our generation.

[@inakale]

absolutely amazing interview!! 🔥

[@U4ricBlues]

This who interview was amazing! 41:50, so good, haha: Yanis: I couldn't have put it better myself, you are a cloud serf. Adam: ...[mentally checks criteria] God damn it!

[@Summer512]

I'm not quite sure I see a huge distinction between this and say, owning a railroad in the 1800s, or being a slumlord. Landlords have always extracted rent based on the power afforded to them. And capitalism has always had companies that did not directly produce anything but instead functioned as a middle ground between other companies in the extraction > processing > consumption chain. I don't think he's wrong in what he's describing but it seems odd to try and brand it as a novel thing, I think it's pretty consistent with things we can see going back hundreds of years.

[@franjkav]

My understanding is that he is arguing that we no longer live(?) under capitalism (as commonly understood and at least least not completely) and that it’s actually reverted back to feudalism. One key factor being the lack of a labor market. The novel part is that the feudalism has mutated to be primarily digital or in the cloud via(?) state funding/investment, privatization, what have you. Something like that

[@xenocampanoli815]

Just like building to take over real estate, capital takes over resources and diverts things that were previously a general public resource, in order for empowered to control more. Yes, there is also the side effect of "productivity", but that productivity is not a reasonable set of things selected by the community, but is rather a selection for maximum control and resource accumulation. The software is similar. I don't say this to differ with you guys, but to point out that the patterns tend to be simply pretty similar. As such, we could be making regulation over these. Where we are limited is in long term promulgation of good explanation of what is going on so that the constituency will continue to support towards optimal regulation and other rules based limits to divert resources to patterns that are just and reality based towards sustainability.

[@youarenaturewellness]

One of the most intelligent people on this Earth...really appreciate Mr. Varoufakis' perspective during these strange times.

[@BlueScreenCorp]

The premise that "This isn't the capitalism we used to know, no this is different from capitalism. We swear capitalism works, this current economic system isn't capitalism that's why its not working" has some real big cope energy to it. What we are seeing globally is the only logical conclusion to what happens in a world controlled by capital, that is the simple truth, throwing a new label on it is just a way to make capitalism more palatable for those that don't benefit from it. Its no different than when economists try to rewrite the history of economics from the very beginning where they claim that everything we know now came from credit and bartering and that its human nature to be capitalists...

[@grmpEqweer]

Yup. Capitalism is a competition, and competitions end. Eventually it becomes oligarchy.

[@niclas9990]

Who's working from that premise? Are you talking about Varoufakis? Given he's a self-described Marxist, I don't think he's about just fixing capitalism, nor does he suggest anywhere here that that's what he's suggesting we do.

[@pinkpearl1967]

Yanis is definitely not trying to make it more palatable. He is laying out how capitalism has changed. This is a perfectly valid and useful thing for an economist to do.

[@Jomchen]

He doesn't say this. Who thinks "Technofeudalism" is more palatable than "Capitalism"? lol take a breather and listen man

[@truthbetold8233]

​@@Jomchen this seems to completely misrepresent the comment you're replying to.

[@kairatkempirbaev7183]

The way you guys fought against AI was impressive. I like to watch Yanis as well. What a coincidence, artists are starting to get what transitions are happening at the moment.

[@user-pt5bn7yt9f]

I am from Greece and I wish we had Yanis as our Prime Minister.

[@AlkisGD]

Now that's a collab I never saw coming 😮

[@gorzillaau7761]

I'm so glad to see this. This is a much more refined version of an idea i've been struggling to articulate for years.

[@Rorykdy]

Check out Jaron Lanier. He’s been saying this stuff for the better part of a decade now.

[@CaptainFirefred]

Thanks for naming this nightmare

[@vapx0075]

Finally, getting to hear someone who KNOWS HOW TO socialist! I'm sick of hearing from activists, even when I agree with them. I want to listen to economists who can actually build paths, budgets and step by step plans. I only did two subjects in economics at uni. One idea I'd like to engage with more is on the subject of profits. My FREE idea is: Put a max tax cap of profits AND wages. To stop dragon hoarding by companies, and to stop them claiming a tax benefit for lazily dumping the excess profit into the CEO's pocket. We've got to stop this dragon hoarding behaviour, and what better way than to incenttivise businesses to spend on the triple bottom line? I didn't move into big business finance but I have never seen a business held accountable to the triple bottom line. So tax 'em then. If they can't be socially and environmentally friendly, give it to the government to make that investment. I carry this idea to the bottom end as well. The people that are struggling to market themselves to get jobs, overhaul the work for the dole system so it's Gainful Employment where they can actually get on-the-job training and promotions. Ridiculous that a person can't afford to get to a job interview on a Work for the Dole income. Destigmatise, pls. Just want to note, say whatever else you like about We Chat, one thing it's right on top of is anti-Chinese hatred and toxicity. It's very uncool that the Chinese were asking for tighter controls on Facebook etc to stop it from happening but the hate groups kept spawning and Zucker blew them off. Who do you want watching you? The government, or someone NOBODY elected?

[@Samsgarden]

Adam, your ability to paraphrase and encapsulate the main thrust of an argument is impressive. I'm so glad there are competitors to right-adjacent monopolists like Jordan Peterson.

[@mrhefner01]

I am so glad you decided to continue on yourself. You are a great personality to articulate and present important information. Much respect Adam

[@theicyridge]

Yanis is simply the best. Thank you for this.

[@180_S]

God bless comrade Yanis. An excellent disection of our current predicament.

[@angelamorales6383]

Thanks for the terrific convos. Shared

[@pepeshrinu]

It is called "surveillance capitalism", where behavior is a free surplus for enterprises to record and which its manipulations has the capacity to influence/control customers.

[@pepeshrinu]

Shoshana Zuboff

[@Happyduderawr]

Yeah. It's just same old capitalism but with surveillance aspects to it. People didn't say capitalism was over when the public relations industry or the oil industries rose up.

[@innapropriatehandle]

how is it 'surveillance capitalism' if what we are witnessing isn't capitalism

[@JohnHall]

"Influence capital" is now the focus for monetization within the current iteration of capitalism. The worst aspect of this is because there is a *higher* value attributed to hidden influence vs. overt.

[@Elsa-qy9hr]

"If you don't see that you're a pawn in many aspects of your life from numerous people & organizations, you're a perfect pawn."

[@yamchayaku]

Techno-Feudalism sounds like a proper way to call our current economic system.

[@hhheee3939]

Adam, you need to follow this up with prof michael hudson. His book and forgive them their debts is a book that will change everything for you. A focus on that book would be a must see.

[@4ddicted2Fitne55]

excited to watch/listen but know I'll end it feeling more depressed and hopeless than I am now before starting. Here goes...

[@Jomchen]

If you like hope, read his book 'Another Now'. Great book although the plot is a shallow device for the message.

[@verigone2677]

This is also part of why many Enterprises are leaving external cloud hosting or at minimum positioning themselves to pivot out of an economic model where your corporations profit motive gets tied to the Cyber Security of a company that is probably also serving your competitors.

[@xenocampanoli815]

Thank you for your statement about "identity". You are exactly right.

[@lukeknopp4267]

it a little surreal to cut to an ad in the middle of this haha

[@wesleystreet]

Advertising isn't intrinsically capitalism.

[@lukeknopp4267]

@@wesleystreet no but the algorithm is built around advertising

[@Astrologon]

Interesting how "fiefdom" only sounds like a mispronunciation of "thiefdom". It's a bit like while playing Minecraft recently, it occurred to me that maybe "mine" is called that because when asked what the thing is, the first guy who owned a mine just said that it's theirs - "What is that? Mine, that's what that is."

[@TheXello]

Oh god, I though he was actually saying "thiefdom". Thanks for clarifying, the language seemed a little crass.

[@thekingoffailure9967]

When I go into the earth and harvest resources Im literally just grabbing stuff and calling it mine. Mine diamonds? Diamonds! Mine!

[@maxheadrom3088]

Jaron Lanier has been making the behavior modification point for over a decade now - and he's a pioneer of VR technology!!!! He also argues against the "free to use/paid by advertisement" business model because that model forces companies to push behavior modification forward.

[@7pinky791]

In England, they own our water supplies too. 75 % of British water authorities owned by foreign companies and individuals that previously had nothing to do with the environmental management. Our water quality and river levels are at an all-time low, and raw sewage is regularly pumped into our river systems. Our chalk streams are choked by silt/mud and pollution. But all you hear on social media is carbon zero!

[@Sidecutter]

It hasn't mutated at all, this is what it is. This is what it always was. This is capitalism working exactly as intended to funnel all the wealth to the top.

[@splithor1zon]

Crossover I didn't know I needed. ❤

[@Lilmiket1000]

This is crazy. My mind is blown. How the hell can we stop it. How did allow it!

[@NullStaticVoid]

Its even worse than he described. Amazon Web Services provides the infrastructure for most of the internet. Netflix runs on AWS. Uber runs on AWS, Grubhub too. Even a lot of corporate and government intranets are farmed out to AWS because its scalable and failure proof. So notably does Amazon control the marketplace, they control the road.

[@gnice8765]

The state paid for allowed and patron aws. Inherently not capitalism bc the state is worried about controlling the ppl. Who is at fault capitalism or the state?