Yanis Varoufakis explains how big tech is economically dominating your life

Yanis Varoufakis is an economist, politician and author of Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism.
He swung by JOE Towers to chat to us about his new book, the regression of neoliberal capitalism to a feudal system ran by a few tech billionaires, and the future of global capital.
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[@bencobley4929]

Capital has overthrown Capitalism. Brilliantly explained.

[@heathdavid2540]

fck, the algorithm is making me buy Yanis’ book.. i just put it in my Amazon cart.

[@arouse6140]

Dual realities theirs and … dare I be so primitive?

[@Djdunya1]

😂

[@sylarfx]

It's always a pleasure to listen to Yanis. One of the true original thinkers of our time.

[@mikiafu]

What's original about his Marxist thought...

[@simonmasters3295]

​​@@mikiafuwhat is original about your comment?

[@mikiafu]

@@simonmasters3295 I asked a genuine question and you turn it against me? I am not claiming that my question is original ,I don't have time and energy to do economy professionally, but I'd just like to know what's original about recycling Marxist understanding of economy...

[@stuart6478]

if he's so original why did i think his thoughts before discovering him?

[@ArtificialLifef0rm]

An interesting man for sure. But original thinker? He is clinging on to 170 year old political ideas (Marxism). I wouldn't call that original.

[@pedroghirotti]

Thank you for bringing Yanis. He's the guy I listen to when losing all hope of a more equal and just future. However, I then quickly go back to doom and gloom... I have to stop reading the news, get myself a cabin in the woods and just forget it.

[@literallyjustgrass]

Being informed is good but it's not worth your mental health, it's okay to just focus on what's close to home to you, your family and friends, things you can actually affect on your own, and forget the state of the world for a bit

[@roberttaylor7462]

@@literallyjustgrass @pedroghirotti As he mentioned, "there are not enough cabins in the woods ... you would not do it", he then goes onto explain there is social mobility (that is harder than before IMO). The way to combat it, if that is the right way of putting that, is to build resilience through understanding.

[@kanyesouth4256]

i think we all relate to the desire of shutting out the noise and narrowing our focus our immediate friends, family and personal interest. BUT, this introversion is increasingly exacerbating the problem. Actually, we are increasingly duty bound to engage and disrupt the ongoing distribution of more wealth to the already wealthy, duty bound because doing nothing has already got us to where we are right now, and continuing to do nothing will exacerbate the problems we currently face for the generations to come. Simply, i am increasingly convinced that society requires us to do more, act more, resist and say no, much louder and much more often than we currently 'feel comfortable' doing@@literallyjustgrass

[@byroneckhardt4131]

Our future is islam whether we want it or not .

[@literallyjustgrass]

@@byroneckhardt4131 hey, 2016 called, they want their politics back

[@airhmairh7879]

It's really sad that such a voice could not finally be part of the Greek parliament. He was our chance to a better political future.

[@tecmissle9256]

Oo

[@dnickaroo3574]

Europe gets what it wanted … .. .

[@yafarblasco4524]

@@Bob-xy5cn what?

[@polly5192]

Under current circumstances, it'd be impossible for a person of principles and integrity to serve as an MP. Devastating but true 😞

[@barryyoung]

You would be trading in chickens and sacks of grain if he executed his policies. There is not a single example in all the experiments run by countries where any of these ideologies remotely work. They all end up in complete disaster. Read some recent history.....

[@perky137]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Yanis Varoufakis.

[@piccalillipit9211]

I cant stand him - but he is 100% correct.

[@comanchio1976]

@piccalillipit9211 What don't you like about him?

[@piccalillipit9211]

@@comanchio1976 he comes across to me as being very smug, and I don't like that. But that doesn't stop him from being very intelligent and completely correct and what he's saying here. This was my main comment: IM AN AUTHOR on psychology and the collapse of civilisations - YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO THIS GUY - he is 100% correct, the systems are breaking down cos they are running out of MONEY The capitalist system moved money to the bottom through wages, but it no longer does that. And money is the oil in the engine of capitalism, no money the engine seizes up. These tech companies have worked out how to siphon off the lubricant. The central banks keep topping up the oil with QE - but it just gets siphoned off again. 2

[@mariettestabel275]

Many people loves him. Greeks-the Light of the World. 💫

[@mariettestabel275]

@@piccalillipit9211 Smug? Come one...

[@tommynocash2419]

My grand dad were a coal miner, my dad was in the merchant navy for BP from a deck boy to an able bodied seaman and I'm a piss head hobo tramp musician and if you know anything about the history of the working class you know its a history of exploitation and unbelievable cruelty, yanis is spot on with his analysis

[@tommynocash2419]

My dad has been saying this for years, victory to the pack house workers

[@philstabler6650]

Cannot send nothing to me , cannot understand it , 5 mins the I phone gets chucked on the floor. Boring.

[@ricardof6902]

Mom worked 40 years for the same company (earning less then the men in the same position while producing more) Let's always remember that women had it even worse than the man, all throughout history !!

[@Wraithing]

It's amazing how many of the underlying problems regarding the free capture of our identities and cultural capital were predicted by Jaron Lanier over twenty years ago. It was all thought of as a bit too nerdy and niche back then, but I remember being disturbed less by the dismissively ignorant than wondering who was listening and how they would use the data and unregulated frontier. Now, obviously, it is clear. Good to hear people emerging with interesting practical solutions to our deregulated 'big tech' problems. One of my favourites is Cory Doctorow. Terribly difficult for any ideas to survive when our governments have been indoctrinated, coerced or bought. Nice to hear, though, that Yanis is maintaining his 'pessimism of the intellect and optimism of the will.' Great interview. Thanks.

[@gategi10]

Fantastic interview. So inciteful .

[@Hexanitrobenzene]

Jaron Lanier, another great mind!

[@JoshMasonMusic]

Would be amazing if Yanis and Jaron sat down sometime - 2 absolute powerhouses

[@SimonDelaney1974]

@@JoshMasonMusicthat would be amazing

[@celiad6012]

We’re all ciphers, given a number when we are issued with a birth certificate and a national insurance card. I don’t think there is any way of legally avoiding this.

[@user-rw2mj8qd6s]

What a great interview Yanis never disappoints - He is always on point talks a lot of sense and is a man of principals

[@chrisbfreelance]

His views on borders are embarrassing, fairy tale level rationale.

[@SOak145]

@@chrisbfreelance He doesn't believe in them to begin with, him being an internationalist of course, which yes I agree is embarrassing indeed and quite worrying given many current issues - As a related point I also find his views on immigration, assimilation and the discourse around immigration to be quite naive too - His view about Social Democracy being effectively 'done' I also fundamentally disagree with.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@SOak145 He's a complete failure at anything besides being a "social media intellectual" for naive Western leftists who are drawn to figures like him. Playacted like he was the socialist David out to slay the IMF Goliath, then he was completely punked by them. He just lost his seat in the Greek parliament because his party lost all credibility. He contradicts himself all the time and obviously can't decide wether he's a reformer of capitalism (a de facto social democrat) or wants to replace it.

[@benicolay]

How refreshing, after listening to an hour of rationalised ideas, to hear you two dismiss them without any serious structure to your argument. Your willingness to accept the status quo without truly hearing the opposite voices, will ensure that successive corruptible parties continue to serve the billionaires and corporations leeching off us. Hats off to you!

[@SOak145]

@@benicolay I literally merely replied to another commenter's objections about Yanis's views, with a comment about my own objections. I'm not beholden in that particular context to go into a long explanative block of text in order to further elucidate about my objections and provide 'serious structure(s) to my arguments' etc. Maybe if the commenter I replied to, replies back I might do, but maybe not. Again, I'm not beholden to do that in that context, so it is what it is ultimately. If you don't like that - Then tough fucking shit. That last sentence in your comment is the cringiest shit I've seen all week - So 'Hats off to you' !

[@dietrich123123]

Positively impressed by Varoufakis, he performs much better as intellectual than politician.

[@jmsjms296]

The political arena or system is way too narrow for a free thinker or an "iconoclast" like him.

[@Oldmanpeace]

I'm 50 pages in and enjoying this book.

[@zeddybear257]

Love to hear Yanis speak and will certainly read his book.

[@badger4361]

This was absolutley fascinating, thank you very much for this episode.

[@justLeito]

Can anyone show/proof that amazon charges 40% just like Yanis claims?

[@SuzanneO707]

Super interview. Thought provoking. So refreshing to listen to two people having a civilized exchange, these days🙄. I hope the writing isn't on the toilet wall for us, I try to think positive. Keeping discourse going and raising conciousness about the the ups and downs of technology is a good thing, and thinking about how we could make it work for us more. I only got a mobile, six months ago. People ask how did you manage? Or say, I wish I had never got one. I just shrugged my shoulders. It just got to the point where I couldn't do basic things without one.

[@GuinessOriginal]

It’s annoying. You’re a second class citizen if you’re not online

[@user-ic5lk8pw2v]

это точно, удивительно что сейчас я смотрю это видео на своем языке с синхронным аудио-переводом при помощи нейросети, а не озвучки человека-переводчика.

[@danielstahl5028]

Thinking now about how insidious it is that Google pushed this video to me knowing that I would love to hear the latest from Yanis and thus want to buy a book which he wrote to explain why I'm screwed in the new Techno Feudalist world. Sad to think the land owners are going to collect rents on the revolution. Cloud serfs might as well be batteries in the matrix - no wooden huts needed.

[@kreftmaker]

It is insanely deppressing isn't it...

[@magicbooksio]

Exactly. And none of the Patriots will support those trying to build Patriot ships, but would rather ship their revolutionary papers through the East India Company, as it is more convenient to talk about revolution than to actually DO revolution.

[@fineweather4569]

Serfs deserve all they get - the stupidity of the masses is why history repeats itself albeit under different guises.

[@iankclark]

Yanis is a bloviator. I wouldn’t trust him to walk my dog.

[@deejannemeiurffnicht1791]

Wouldn't you find I more insidious if you bought the book via Amazon or such instead of going to YOUR local book store?

[@Lyrielonwind]

Yanis has always been respected and admired by left wings Spanish political parties. It's always a pleasure to hear him. Saludos desde España

[@kiang2001]

Excellent. The ever impressive Yanis Varoufakis.

[@hawkarae]

Six months behaving as though we were in this together and we'd forget we ever hated or mistrusted anyone. It is our natural state and we'll ease back into rhythm with each other as soon as we make THAT our prime motivating factor. Living from here we will be above the emotion which holds us here. Here in the upside down.

[@jkaur4736]

Pleasure to watch this video - such a thoughtful conversation!

[@hardstylelife5749]

Most interesting; I’ve already listened to other interviews concerning Varoufakis’s new book and perspectives, but I’m glad to see you’ve allowed your guest to talk freely and express his thoughts in a more extensive way than other hosts did, bravo.

[@7c2d]

I like the analogy of cloud capital as a form of land. The existence of AWS, Azure etc makes it more concrete

[@mattgilbert7347]

Yes. I think some people really fail to grasp that central insight. It's not a marketplace, it's not a store: it's the very space where economic activity is possible.

[@zongonative7397]

@@mattgilbert7347Isn’t that what a market place means that’s a place where an exchange of goods and services takes place.He makes it seem like the owners of Amazon contribute nothing which is not true. In fact there is cost involved in building and maintaining the data center facilities, cost involved in building distribution centers where Amazon goods are stored and also cost involved in transporting the purchased product to the buyer. All these costs saves the buyer the cost and time incurred of having to travel with their car to purchase a product in a store.

[@hypertectonics7009]

They even call it an "ecosystem"

[@figgettit]

​@@mattgilbert7347 noone fails to grasp the by now extremely straightforward concept of primitive accumulation and its far from revolutionary to suggest it now takes digital guise. additionally this marxist point was made by jaron lanier long ago, varoufakis is selling stolen goods.

[@Harley-kv4fd]

Really great interview. Thank you Oli and Yanis ❤

[@AANDYG2010]

Love the long form interviews on Joe. Great diversity of guests and a great host.

[@maureennewman905]

Always , always a pleasure to listen to Yanis ,a voice of sanity

[@Lina-nm6cp]

Greatest respect for Yanis Varoufakis , how he stands for truth , for each individual instead of fame and ROI , which means he upholds etics and moral value . A great asset to the great awakening

[@kebakue]

Agree with first part. Great awakening? What is that, God coming to earth? :)

[@hawkstrike18]

@@kebakue well, it does sound kinda fishy but tbh it seems to me like the argument I have been meeting when discussing logic&common sense and objectivity; "no one possesses these because everyone I've seen is an idiot (and/or I have judged and interpreted everyone as that)". There is (could be) a potential awakening but by the looks of things it'll never happen, because ppl love all the confusion (and they'd rather believe in stuff like Illuminati etc) and the self-inflicted prophecies, and shortsightedness, self-destruction, immaturity, etc, and they don't truly fight their complexes (not even in theory, if we really think about it, because if they did then they wouldn't be living their lives and they'd be so miserable and depressed... unlike now that we can all party all the time and be relaxed to the max). It's supposedly easier to count all these as "natural" and keep blaming others based on the (selfishly convenient) narrative you've chosen, and excuse anything wrong you've been and will be doing. (The ones who consider questioning themselves, which is the first step, and even end up blaming themselves way too much, are the ones who should do it the least, usually.) If the majority ever opened their minds and eyes to why is everything so wrong, what would you call that?

[@kebakue]

@@hawkstrike18 Nice reply. My comment was to understand where you were with the "awakening". Cheers!

[@IrradioMan]

What do you mean by ethics and moral value? As in a religious sense, which is based on primitive mythology?

[@hawkstrike18]

@@kebakue I'm not the op and can't really answer for them, but I just had to join it seems... and I hope that not everyone has become completely irrational and focused on the reemerging Illuminati and haarp bs anyway, not yet... or ever. Tho I've been saying it's more of a matter of normal ppl being scattered and running behind the countless wrongs on top of everything else, than about their numbers. The confusion is obvious too (my friend couldn't have made it any clearer to me but luckily he does agree with most of the stuff I point out and slowly notices the second layers of motives and the tactics and mentalities and all these, despite having swallowed some of these crazy theories and the fake resistance behind them, after the virus situation - altho I have observed enough ppl and my initial perspectives never really changed, I just had to escape the nihilism and cynicism and that indirect boost to the already strong and popular self-inflicted prophecies), but if this said confusion was maxed out under this video as well perhaps I would find it impossible to avoid the overwhelming pessimism. Lots of factors each time ...must be why I type more than I wish I had to. I don't remember what I posted here, will check later, but yh. If anyone understands more than half of each wall of text I post, I'm content. Been told I'm not very convincing (not exactly my fault, most ppl worship huge fools and obvious exploiters, and they find them super convincing) and my English is always... not my first language. So, I know it's not *always* the fault of trolls who "innocently" pretend they don't get something, or that something is completely grey and subjective and unimportant etc, since I've even caught myself being partially unable to get some sentences I've written xD

[@investigativeresearchcounc8388]

Thanks for another great interview! We are all worthy of a better future!!!

[@aaronb8698]

We are living in a better future becase of the suffering of our ancestors, (we have highest quality of life of all time but squander it) sadly becase we did not earn the rewards we now spend and forget the painful lessons of the past. each generation with suffer a worse fate of our mistakes intell we learn. (Balance in banking balance in government balance in work and most important love our nabors as our self is the closes we will ever get to heaven on earth.

[@LokiBeckonswow]

this is easily the most important interview I've seen post covid, thank you yanis for saying and doing what you do

[@freshwaterspaceman7194]

Excellent interview

[@cdean2789]

Big up Yanis. ✊🏽✊✊🏻✊🏿

[@TheDreadfulCurtain]

Great interview, I have listened to this and your interview with Naomi Klein on PoliticsJoe I am learning a lot and I appreciate all your hard work. I also enjoyed your Trainstopping video and recommend it for those in the U.K. Thank you.

[@julietaaboka3285]

I have learned a lot from Yanis today. Thanks for the fascinating interview!

[@mariettestabel275]

Brilliant thinker and Teacher.

[@NightWatch1337]

I'll need to rewatch this (probably more than once 😅)

[@Andrea-zm1nl]

Lol. Not your fault my friend. The school systems in the developed world are absolutely horrible at teaching critical thinking and or applied economics to young people because if they did we would all come out of school knowing how to think about our world and how to earn and spend money in a way that ensures a secure future for ourselves.

[@pixelfingers]

Wonder how many people are going to buy the book from Amazon

[@josephwilson2744]

I have never bought anything from Amazon…

[@wrathofgrothendieck]

I downloaded from the dark web

[@barbfraser7194]

@@josephwilson2744 Neither have I! Helloooo out there. I have not lacked for a thing. I be boycotting it since the beginning. Jeff Bezos, Musk, Zuckerface, Walmart, NONE of them would be possible in a regulated market place. They need to broken up before they break US. Not hyperbole. There is NOTHING i need in 24 hours so the speed thing given the impacts on the worker slaves...not worth it. Again, there is NO consumer sacrifice involved. Jeff Bezos has the intellectual capital of a gnat and that is why he and Zucker[ a prudish, illiterate moron] are successful. If you think, if you read...you know the soul sacrifice you are about to make....before ever crossing the thresholds to their monopolies.Speaking of media monopolies and anti-social media.... When I was on the old horrible RWNJ twitter run by the monster Jack Dorsey....I got swarmed by AMAZON BOTS for pointing out their "business practices' like CRUSHING start ups just because they can and of course union busting and deplorable worker conditions, you know, FACTS. It might not sound bad, but being swarmed by AMAZON BOTS....is scary as F. Left Twitter had to rejoin years later bc of a uni course I was taking and then Elmo took over so I quit again, its a real shame because the platform is not the problem its the sick men running them who are not responsible or accountable for the damage they do. They have dumbed down the entire global conversation. Like Google which was to be a Gateway to Knowledge[sic!]. Those who already have knowledge and money pursue information elsewhere with pay to play search engines. Meantime? Google floods the global community w anti-science nonsense and alternative facts that are densely interwoven with outright lies, propaganda and historical revisionism. The damage done to us all globally is up there with #ExxonKnew et al. Of course....We are all compromised as consumers that too is a fact. But Amazon...NEVER.

[@fedoralexandersteeman6672]

I avoid Amazon like the plague. I use Kobo books. But God forbid people use the structures of techno-feudalism in order to defeat it.

[@bjornjensen1309]

I bought one book from Amazon years ago when they were primarily booksellers. Like you, I never buy anything from Amazon. And I never will.

[@somabadekas9463]

Thank you for fast forwarding yanis in the end so we can get more out of this! Great interview!

[@JesusisLord78]

In simple spiritual words, we are entering the beast system..

[@MIGHTY_EYES]

💯💯💯💯🎯🔯💲🔯💲BINGO

[@lico2076]

This guy speeks directly and truly

[@pud4272]

He is a natural philosopher ;p

[@SimonDelaney1974]

I noticed the other day that we’ve been moved away from owning things to becoming digital renters/subscribers. It’s hard to buy anything digital out right anymore (computer programs are a good example, you’d make a one off payment and install). Now it’s all keys and subscriptions. Endlessly for years.

[@johnw9038]

I own all my programs but I can't say how. But you know

[@mattgilbert7347]

Bingo. We will own nothing except risk.

[@felipemendozar]

It's a system to make us slaves. Now even for using a printer you depend on the cloud for using some other "features". Everything now depends on you having a phone.

[@VemaReed]

Thank you for sharing this quite enlightening presentation. Yanis's work is quintessential for understanding the deeper layers of societal structure; historically, present as well what the trends are. And he is an astute economist and a highly respected professional in the branch (I am a Behavior Economist). He is correct in almost all his assumptions; the only area his arguments skewed to one side - in my view - is his answering to the biological priority inbuilt in humans (in all animals for that matter) well-known as "People respond to incentives in an individual manner." As in every person is different, have different needs and wants and will do everything in their power - regardless legally or otherwise -, to achieve it. Including deceit, cunning psychology, manipulation techniques, etc. etc. that are the basis - the primordial tools -, of Capitalism. On the opposite is Socialism (rendered from K.Marx teachings) that can only be implemented at scale by using force and imposition at the hands of the state (or powers to be). The ''solution'' of mix-and-match called "Cooperative" forms or organizing will not attract the very capital needed to balance the power of the cloud (already a monopoly as he [Yanis] very well describes). There is no so-called 'solution' to fix the economic system(s) in existence right now without the use of force at some point. And that - use of force of any kind - will always be met with revolt and pushback from the affected layers in society.

[@mohammedkoduvamparambath4271]

This interview was like a big eye-opener to me on what's happening in the world. I now have more clarity on what's really happening in India underneath the heavy sound and fury of Hindu religious fundamentalist power structure, unbridled capitalism, the mutation of which, as Mr Yannis says, has turned it into a techno-capitaliist state - big techs like Amazon, Google, Facebook etc virtually ruling the state

[@Aerrow62]

Taxing these guys is actually easy, just bring in capital punishment for senior execs for tax evasion and remove all of the tax loop holes. These guys tried the same in India and the government started taxing them on revenue instead of profit. Should have seen these guys crying out. It really hurt them.

[@jmsjms296]

"actually easy, just bring". Naive...

[@zippymufo9765]

OP has the naivete of a 10 year old

[@Aerrow62]

@@zippymufo9765 calling name without explanation is the hallmark of a childish mind. Once you are done with tantrums, you might follow up with actual reasoning.

[@Aerrow62]

@jmsjms296 It’s easy to bring in punitive measures and remove exemptions than anything more appeasing to these people who have the best lawyers and accountant working for them.

[@mikeoglen6848]

I agree. Nothing is "easy" in this life.@@jmsjms296

[@peterdegroot466]

Very insightful ; one correction though : the 40% Amazon charges doesn't really affect the production companies, it's retailers being cut-out of the process

[@deejannemeiurffnicht1791]

Which follows the pattern set on high streets when giant chain stores took over town and city centres. We cut out local farmers, suppliers, and retailers. We see an extreme version of this from the cloud "lords" in that most of us outsource our own selves, towns, and countries. With NOTHING in return.

[@felipemendozar]

The thing is, that that money goes directly to the toilet, it goes to the renters, doesn't stay in the production cycle, which is what makes societies richer... so these rich lords get richer, servants get poorer, vassals survive at the cost of their old freedom being lost... if I understood well.

[@beraiahyisrael4178]

We need people like Yannis in charge. I know he was but more he’s more influential than most so called leaders.

[@jmsjms296]

Rigged system.

[@GianlucaSassetti-ts3nw]

I am a researcher in the field of digital identity and I believe YN made a really good point ragarding identity. The modern SSO and authentication infrastructures rely mainly on the google, facebook, amazon identity services. Same is true for legally valid identities, which are often provided or enabled by banks or privates, and in fewer cases by governments. Sadly alternative architectures to centralized digital identities are possible, some of them are currently under development. Their release would entail an intersting decentralization of power (eidas 2 digital wallet model). But it do not think that they will drastically change the scenario, simply because of the fundamental role of big tech in online digital identities.

[@justLeito]

Cardano blockchain is working on a framework for private digital identity. It is the future, however, won't be applied, so in the same time it is not the future. It would push power to the edges.

[@myparceltape1169]

With the current setup anything communicated electronically can be tracked and deciphered, including what your government agrees with you.

[@derekwhite2929]

Good on you Yanis, a candle for these very dark days

[@twogsds]

I deliberately avoid buying from adverts from social media, wouldn't have Alexandra in my home, swear at Google assistant if it tries to interact with me, I don't want to have self driving capacity on my car, I value my freedom.

[@LokiBeckonswow]

this was easily one of the most informative + inspiring things I've ever seen, I've just finished watching it for the 2nd time, and I'm really excited to now get the book, Yanis' references to the late 1700s are a terribly relevant example from recent-ish history, so powerful to think we may be on the brink of undoing the current cloud-shackles - I'm really grateful to be able to have access to the thoughts of incredible thinkers around history/economics/revolutionary ideas like this, it's really exciting to think we're potentially only one small revolution away from a far more equitable social situation, given how "globalised" the world asserts to being... it really sounds possible that enough people can agree around the world.. that we don't want to be cloud serfs, maybe more that we want to have a share of the profits being sourced from technological growth. no longer should the risks be socialised with profits privatised, the more people that learn this key human right the better I think. thank you yanis, pls i rly hope that people see the sense in this information..

[@mariamichael1669]

I wasn’t a fan of Yanis during his time in politics however I enjoyed this conversation immensely. He clearly explains how technology has now superseded itself. Owning Alexia and the like means you don’t have to leave the comfort of your armchair whilst you have the world at your fingertips. Personally I’m old school and keep my use of these gadgets to an absolute limit. Further, with respect to Yanis I saw all this coming years ago and I don’t have his academic prowess. Maybe us Greeks are natural philosophers.😁😁😁 Thank you.

[@SirWhig-esq.]

Yanis Varoufakis and Mark Carney are two great economists.

[@DreBourbeau]

I wonder how Yanis feels about the rise of the "subscription economy" as a symptom of technofeudal development. It seems that most companies, including some small businesses, have or are launching subscription services (which one could argue is another form of rent collection) - and the subscription economy is forecasted to be worth 1.5 trillion dollars by 2025. Even car companies make more money from recurring payments than actually selling cars.

[@aaronb8698]

Thats the whole point of alagark globalist and feautalests working so hard to strip you of personal property and creat digital money with sosalisam scoring is that it is not real (like the emperor's clothes) Anything that digital money buys is just letting you rent experiences if you follow there rules. You will own nothing and be happy. Yanis is saying you are either fighting aginst it (liberty or death like Washington) or your helping them build your prison.

[@JAI_8]

It is clearly modeled on the same premise; that of the rentier. Different industries find it appealing for different reasons. Easier to control intellectual property for one. Easier to control the development cycle for two. In some industries of course it adds the appeal of denying ownership of any real property to private citizens as corporations seek to strip everything of any real value (especially real estate) for themselves, and rent it back to the citizens. One could argue that the financial industry is approaching homes in this way even now, as home prices seem increasingly non-market driven and more determined by the availability of mortgage schemes from the banks. Fewer and fewer can hope to afford to buy a home and of those that do most of these now find that this home is their ONLY asset at the time of their retirement and thus cannot be passed on to their children when they die since the equity in their home is their retirement fund. So in that sense many “home owners” over the last 20 years have actually just been renting their homes from a financial institution in a sense. The economist Michael Hudson speaks to this as well and he too agrees with you that the entire financial sector (with the assistance of the US government of both neoliberal parties of course), for example, has hijacked the economy and turned it into a rentier system (in which less than 10 percent of the citizens have any significant savings any longer, but use it only for “services”), and thus, as bankers to most of the companies you’re referring to, would rather support subscription service based relationships with these companies customers rather than the traditionally more risky “capitalist” system of developing a new product for sale every so often and transferring a number of rights to the customers as purchasers of a product, rather than mere subscribers to a service for fixed short time periods, in which the corporation retains almost all rights of ownership of material goods and IP. It’s the way of the future. You’ll own nothing and like it. And you’ll have the new capitalism to thank for it … inspire of whist fear mongering economists like Hayak and Friedman would have you believe about socialism being the path the a new feudalism. It’s clear where the new feudalism is coming from. And it’s their beloved “free market” madness that’s lead to this situation.

[@johnw9038]

​​@@JAI_8This isn't free market capitalism. If regulations/ tax codes didn't keep those companies propped up and keep beating down their would-be competitors, these companies would fail

[@mattgilbert7347]

​@@JAI_8well put. All I would add is that we will be allowed to own one element of the system: the risk.

[@mavrospanayiotis]

​@@johnw9038it is: when market is "free" people becomes private property of big concentrations of capital. The idea of free market hides a market controlled by a specific élite.

[@aitherio_eleos]

Good job Yannis !Very underrated in greek politics cause we have a toxic political system that ingnores or distorts the bigger picture .

[@GuinessOriginal]

He’s huge in Britain, don’t know about anywhere else in Europe but we absolutely love him here

[@user-cs6yd8dc8d]

Yiannnis failed as politician...he's confusing the ideally with REALITY ! He's talking...talking theories...what if...😂😂

[@GuinessOriginal]

@@user-cs6yd8dc8d bollocks. Germany and the USA deliberately sabotaged that government

[@formes2388]

@@user-cs6yd8dc8d Maybe you need a brush up on history - He was asked to be finance minister, and when the government opted to take action that he was opposed with - He Walked away. In other words: He stuck to his values, and maintained his Integrity - which is exactly why people are willing to listen to him. So yes: He failed to be a politician - he DID NOT play the game of politics. and as far as theory: Sort of - but he is actually talking about what happened, and what is happening. Yes their is theory in their, there is extrapolation - however, it is very much observational in nature. And considering the fact you can actually go and validate a lot of what has been stated on your own time - provided you actually do the work, you are going to have to point out which part is wrong, because I don't see wrong - I see where a difference of opinions can exist, but I don't see anything definitively wrong. And that is rather something considering how many economists open their mouth and the first sound out is BS, followed by a lot of buzz words, ending with BS.

[@zippymufo9765]

@@formes2388 You do know that earlier this year the Greek people voted him and his party out of parliament, right? 😂 He's a narcissistic clown who contradicts himself incessantly, but because he's far more macho and charismatic than most leftists, of course he's going to be followed.

[@jr1833]

Just imagine if you had Yanis as a professor. I just shake my head at the shit I was taught, or not taught. It's not that all the professors were at fault, in fact, I don't think most of them had a clue.

[@PostingCringeOnMain]

Just imagine you went to university and used the opportunity to access expertise and literature through the institution to direct your own studies... where do people get the idea that university is the same as school, where a teacher hands you the things you need to commit to memory and you learn them ready for a multiple choice quiz at the end of the semester? As an undergraduate, you're supposed to actually do that thing everyone tells you to online... DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

@@PostingCringeOnMain Way to completely miss the point, which was about priorities of higher education institutions - a critique of a system - and resort to self-help retorts that, ironically, show things about the same system and culture.

[@formes2388]

@@PostingCringeOnMain If I wanted a self study experience, I would go to the public library - and did growing up, to research the things I was and am Interested in. The value of a post secondary institution is directed studies in a field which can accelerate the rate of learning through the fact that there is a person who understands what you need to know in order to thrive in a field. The old as all hell saying of "If you don't know what you don't know" is true here. Like say - hardening steel: Did you know that different alloy's of steel need to be cooled at different rates to achieve the same hardness? Did you know their are air hardening steels that given enough time will reach maximum hardness while just left in open air? Trying to learn this on your own is not an easy task - and that is one piece of what you need to know about say, forging knives. Now go look at what universities and colleges spend their money on - in the US: Sports is huge. But what actually creates value for the future of society? Well - not that. And when you look at the amount of equity of outcome BS that has been shoved through - it creates an inherent problem. Then go look at the rate of ten year professors vs. the amount of adjuncts that are hopping around and not given room to do the research. The reality is - a professor that does a couple of classes a week that take 2-3 hours and does their own research with the assistance of a selection of their students produces far better results than a professor that is teaching a dozen classes at three different institutions while being paid piss poor wages. The reality is, and this is especially true of the US (but not exclusive to the US), that the value of university educations has gotten strictly worse outside of a handful of fields. And we are starting to see shifts in how prospective employees are selected reflecting this. Beyond this - doing your own research, requires knowing how to do good research, which is a skill hat one must unironically learn. And it turns out, having someone who is a good researcher teach you how to do good research takes a lot less time than crash coursing it.

[@Hexanitrobenzene]

Mainstream economics education is just a public relations department of capitalism.

[@zippymufo9765]

OP is a drone incapable of formulating his own opinions, he fantasizes about a "professor" teaching him the right way because he can't find it on his own 😂😂😂

[@bfoster417]

I enjoyed watching this, it was fascinating, I'm going to get his books especially another now.

[@PointduNord]

Yanis’ analysis is simply brilliant.

[@Silentkebab]

Brilliant interview. I was about to buy the book on Amazon but I resisted!

[@davidcooks2379]

It's a good book, although of course it's a fiction, nothing of this is possible. He should start offering realistic solutions. Getting rid of the stock market will return us to feudalism, where only the rich could afford to have stuff. Stock market is our only way of participating in the success of the big business. Why would you force people to only participate in the success of the business they work for? What if they work for a small not for profit which doesn't have an upside? What do you do when you retire if you don't have any independent income? Become dependent on the state? Your children? Work until death? Rent out a room in your home? But property for rent? I much prefer dividends, so that you don't need to work and take care of the property and be nice to your children just to survive

[@__D10S__]

@@davidcooks2379 you should read capitalist realism friend. also, are you under the impression all the tiny details about capitalism were ironed out in the heads of people before the transition towards capitalism? Solutions will be found on the path, as is the case for any other issue.

[@filmbuffoon]

@@davidcooks2379right and how many people are actually prepared for retirement in America? How often do you hear about septuagenarians returning to work because of eroding pensions (if they even have any) or 401(k)’s? Not saying Yanis has a viable solution, but the idea that you’re not dependent on the state is laughable considering how many bailouts of the stock market the Fed periodically participates in. So the better question is, what is your solution for millions of Americans working now who will be of retirement age in the coming years, especially against the backdrop of a world where climate change is constant keeping us on our toes?

[@fineweather4569]

@@filmbuffoonclimate change is the least of our worries - it’s been changing for millions of years and making the serfs believe they are the cause is laughable and an excuse to demonise and make them even poorer. The sooner we disappear the better for the planet - it doesn’t need us, humanity is so overrated.

[@carinarilk89]

YANIS IS ALWAYS ON POINT. I LOVE THIS MAN ❤

[@dougiesweeny4833]

In this crazy game of life the tables are rigged. The cards are marked. The dice loaded. And they always win at our expense

[@chrispeacock1257]

I’d be interested to hear his thoughts on how this fits into Marx’s theory of progression. Will techno-feudalism be the unforeseen step which takes us to communism? If it relies upon a layer of cloud “land” (large user/consumer networks) just like typical capitalism relied upon land, and in turn pays rent to landlords/cloud capitalists for access, this will create more concentrated wealth than was predicted by Marx. Marx theory is underpinned by the prediction that capitalism alone would concentrate wealth to the degree, and wages would be dampened to such a degree that workers would rise up and take over the capital for themselves to then be distributed more evenly. This of course never happened largely due to social democracy appeasing the workers through creating a relatively balanced system of capitalism in which profits were redistributed. With techno-feudalism both concentrating wealth into even fewer hands (through monopolistic power), and strangling capitalism’s ability to generate new wealth, which was previously promised to the workers by social democracy redistribution, does Yanis see an acceleration towards Marx’s tipping point? It might be interesting to think about how capitalism will respond to the new requirement to engage with these monopolistic “cloud” platforms in order to function. Of course they don’t want to pay 40% rent to these platforms, but they also can’t create cheaper alternatives because the network effect means they will never have the economies of scale to compete. I can honestly see productive capitalists lobbying governments to make these “cloud” platforms publicly owned in order to drive profits again and return to capitalism. That would be a first, but I can also see these platforms having enough weight to successfully lobby against that, especially as time goes on and the capitalists wealth is syphoned from them.

[@micha0585]

Marx touched upon the Lumpenproletariat which is basically petit-bourgeoise and members of the proletariat who betray their class interest and side with the grandbourgeoise and the clergy. He used the poor white cowboys as an example as they fought against their class comrades (the black slaves) and therefore betrayed their class. I think that fascism is the same thing, after all its usually poor people being indoctrinated by the church and state. I think fascism is the end of economic progress because fascism will always defeat communism. Marx was right in his time but he couldnt have predicted this.

[@chrispeacock1257]

@@micha0585 I can definitely see that happening. The capitalists divest from productive capitalism and invest into shares of these cloud platforms, thus becoming class traitors of their now strangled capitalist class but benefiting from the rent generated by the new cloud platforms. At the end of the day, a capitalist seeks to invest their money wherever the most return lies, not just when that return is in the form of profit, but also in rents. If that’s the case, capitalism truly is over, as the divestment from productive capitalism will hamper output growth. At that point the only entities capable of producing goods are the platforms themselves, which is the ultimate form of corporatism, techno-feudalism.

[@Czechbound]

And it's 40% now. Let's say Amazon decides to increase it to 49.9%. There's nothing to stop them doing that. There's no rival system. In this context, "rising up" either means people/ companies not using it ( that won't happen ), or regulators putting controls on how much it can syphon as rent. But the regulation can only really happen if these technologies are seen as utilities - service providers essential to daily life. But regulating something like Google or Facebook which are principally advertising businesses is difficult as they will plead "we give them what the people want". And taxing them at the back end doesn't work because there is no global alliance to do that. There will always be some rogue state that will say "come to us. We will provide blind trusts, and bearer shares/ bonds, and anonymous ownership structures" etc. so you may never know who to tax

[@swaggboymcgee210]

This assumes Marx's theory of progression had any weight to it.

[@constancewalsh3646]

For Joe and those of us who have the cabin-in-the-woods fantasy, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I do live in a cabin but am as needful of my computer as anyone. However, I have a flip tracfone, Not a smart-phone.. I drive a reliable older car, and have a thousand ways to live on five- to eight-hundred a month including rent (I tend the yard and and other things useful to my landlady). It is extremely freeing. I'm an artist/writer, and work part-time in an antique store. Thanks for this insightful and true interview.

[@sharonmccormack8026]

Yanis is super articulate, he never wasted a word 👏 luv it

[@DimitrisKanakis]

Interviewer of the highest quality. Makes a question...ones in a while "provokes" the the guest...and mainly lets them talk as he (we) listen. Good work mate!

[@AWanderingWitch]

Yanis ❤ ever since I read Adults in the Room I have been fascinated by him.

[@_______J.Elijah.Lilly________]

I propose the following extension to the Turing-Test : Baking a Pie, while caring for a baby, and preparing a Thanksgiving meal. while passing the Turing-Test with each relative. The hospitality phase of the Turing-Trials. If AI can talk the talk, next phase must be that it walks the walk. how do you train AI to be gentle/aware without some equivalent to pain receptivity, sensitivity requires immense control and awareness. Only a thing that can be wounded, is gentle enough.

[@kerryfry1857]

Brilliant interview 👏🏻👏🏻❤

[@katiemarshall4340]

Yanis you are a true Comrade of mine ✊. If my body was capable I'd be out there being active and dealing body blows to these Cloud Elites. Keep up the great work and I'll buy your book as a Christmas present to myself.

[@ninamartin1084]

Buy it from a bookshop!

[@Jay_Johnson]

This is a really Good theory of the current economic system. I think the most hopeful part of it is it means the creation of a new aristocratic social class and could be used as a wedge issue to place Labour and Capital on the same side vs this new aristocratic elite. Do we Nationalise the Interfaces like many countries like China did with land?

[@Czechbound]

And which country would nationalise these tech champions. As they're US based, and worth collectively probably close to $10 trillion, how would funding that play out ? And on what basis do you nationalise them ?

[@Jay_Johnson]

@@Czechbound The government would have to create a nationalised alternative and push market share by regulation that promote public good and not private rents squeezing the market share of privatised alternatives until they are not worth as much.

[@emilysevastou5075]

A brilliant interview with our Brilliant Yannis Varoufakis!😊

[@kieranmulholland1281]

Another interview please the questions were so good

[@FINEFELINE333]

The platforms should be owned and run by the users on a not for profit basis.

[@crhu319]

Wikipedia never gets invited to Senate hearings

[@El-Burrito]

I see Yanis has been doing the rounds recently. Channel 4, Novara, DDN and politics Joe I've seen him on now in the past few days

[@fang_xianfu]

Well he needs to sell his book 🤷‍♀️

[@lefenec]

Book promotion

[@BraveCounsel]

He’s a great capitalist 💰

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

@@BraveCounsel Ah yes, getting money for something you produced with your own efforts so that you can sustain yourself is being a capitalist. And the likes of you - with these inane littering of useless, cliché slogans - are the demonstration of all the cons of inventing the internet.

[@mad00insane]

For this reason, I turn off tracking, preferences, and history. It always surrounds me, corners me, and does not help me look at new things. The world is bigger than our perceptions and imaginations.

[@Jaaj2009]

Outstanding interview

[@neutralyukka]

I agree with many of his points but I can't believe PoliticsJoe didn't question Varoufakis' numbers. Typically manufacturers will sell goods at 50% of face value. The rest is shared by the retailer and distributor if there is one. Huge supermarket chains have their own distribution networks. They reasonably expect to buy FMCGs like Mars Bars for 50p and sell them for £1. If they choose to sell above or beyond that it's up to them. Amazon's model isn't that different, they just don't have a network of stores (apart from a few, still experimental) so they're more profitable. To claim that they're somehow taking all the profits just isn't true. A manufacturer can sell direct to consumers through other platforms like eBay for under 20%, if they're willing to handle distribution themselves. The points about Alexa and digital assistants generally is a separate issue.

[@davidwalsh9807]

Seems to be a thoughtful individual

[@user-pj8ed8il9s]

bit too bald tho

[@jann9507]

Thanks for the post Fantastic talk - learned a lot

[@theamartinez7060]

Thank you for this enlightening discussion…. I learned so much and feel less overwhelmed by the powerful technocratic, feudalist reorganization of society that has accelerated since 2008. Thank you Yanis.

[@THE_kopfkino]

Wow! What a fascinating interview!

[@celiad6012]

Since the invention of the telephone, for which you need to pay a line rental, the radio and television, for which you also need to buy a licence in most countries, there has always been technical feudalism. Until recently, almost everyone bought a daily newspaper, enriching the owner barons of these forerunners of today’s tech social media platforms. Plus ça change!

[@greenpear6407]

It's not the same, cloud market is not merely communication

[@MrVoayer]

One subject and so many important sidelines, so many insights, so many lessons... Time spent with Yanis Varoufakis is always great fan. Well, not alwasy fun, but grat time for sure !

[@3hijos5nietos]

Brilliantly explained. Greetings from Chile.

[@tomminoguehastings4296]

yanis brilliant as always

[@jaka.kragelj]

It's easier to imagine the end of the private property of the cloud capital than it is to imagine the proper taxation of cloud rents. 44:04 -- Yanis Varoufakis

[@ninamartin1084]

This is the true nightmare - the fact that there are not enough 'huts in the woods' (survival smallhodings) for everyone means that we as a species have painted ourselves into a corner, lured in by urbanism and the dream of a 'better life' to be be enslaved by wages and dependency on food and information supply chains. We no longer have the option to go 'back to the village' of our ancestors, grow our food and keep a few chickens. It is the tragedy of our age.

[@K2ELP]

I think romanticising the past also doesn't help, I would've died as a child of asthma back then What you're missing is self control over the means of production

[@josefinacupido9872]

Brilliant discussion thanks guys

[@papasitomamasita]

I haven’t read Yanis’ book but his vision about the future creates more questions than answers which are difficult to comprehend. I am surprised that no one is discussing his vision about the future. I admire Yanis as an intellectual and political activist. I understand his point about clout capitalism but it’s hard to comprehend how clout capitalism will become the whole economy and ultimately a feudal economy. In my mind it may be part of the economy but not everything. We still will have to produce goods, food machinery cars art agriculture sports clothes houses and so on. How is clout capitalism going to produce all of this? How would you rent food? How would you rent live events? How would you rent leisure? How would you rent education? I can understand that more robots will produce bigger share of goods but as Yanis said robots has nothing to do with clout capitalism. I can understand that robots will decrease the need of labor but then one share one vote may not be as effective as Yanis believes. I agree about the digital wallet taking the power of wall steel and the stock market but what about the argument that the stock market allocates capital in efficient ways. There are so many other questions that would be difficult to comprehend about clout capitalism. I agree that the future is uncertain but people will have the power to shape it. The AI is not as dangerous as replacing humans but could be dangerous in many other ways.

[@papasitomamasita]

The point is that clout capitalism can’t produce physical goods. Robots and people can but not clout platforms. Clout platforms can influence people which is tremendous power but clout capitalism can’t rent and commodify life, human thought, feelings etc.

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Thanks, Joe! Yanis Varoufakis is a genius of political economy based on both theory & experience and I usually have to watch him several times to get the gist but it's well worth it. 🤔 PS: Your show deserves many more viewers. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍...

[@paultaylor7947]

What i think as the age old question asks.What grabs you or where do you want to take the conversation. Like Rock and roll would not be so appropriate to focus on today.What we do with our lives. Everything has to be stripped of its outer layers all the time understandable if that would be the requirements of a job but thats the beauty of sharing information. Talking to a friend over a pint is an easier and a more relaxing way to socialize because it will always come down to us the people

[@-Gramps]

Thanks for a very interesting discussion. PLEASE consider adding closed captioning to your videos for those of us with difficulty hearing.

[@SugarMind99]

There is another dualism here in that if I tell people to read Yanis' book(s) - I become a serf to Amazon who uses me as the unpaid promoter and keeps 40% of the books profits to Yanis. I think we are already trapped in this maze like fiefdom with very few options of escape.

[@irmar]

You could always order it from your local bookstore to bring it for you to go and buy in person. The bookstore would order it from the publisher.

[@HectorLow]

Imagine if 5% of the world understood all this and preached it. And if 30% agreed and were on board. With 70% basically vaguely sympathetic and partially ok but reservations. Among these are the Amazon workers, the distribution drivers, the code programmers and what is left of the industrial and service workers (eg NHS consultants and ambulance drivers) as well as the rise of non-establishment journalists and new media. Is there hope?

[@alexhauser5043]

"Imagine if 5% of the world understood all this and preached it." That's all it ever takes. History is made by small bands of determined men.

[@pud4272]

What looks to be an amazing book set to become a contemporary classic. They're called "domains" after all!

[@Juan-ud3if]

Salute All Truth Teller's and All Activists for Peace, Freedoms, Justice, Climate and Human Rights. 🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋

[@uniqtraveller2162]

This man is one of the best thinker ever!

[@justLeito]

Typical intellectual mixed with politics.

[@aaronbono4688]

I really don't get this "techno-feudalism" thing. Basically what I see companies doing in the digital world is a reflection of what is happing in the real world and the core problem isn't any "feudalism" but rather consolidation into monopolies. For example, with Amazon that is just doing in the digital world what Wal-Mart did decades ago in the real world: edged out and killed the competition and forced companies to sell through them or die. What needs to be done is these big companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. need to be broken up like we did with AT&T. I can see a direct correlation between the old AT&T monopoly and Facebook and social media.

[@K2ELP]

What is a feudal lord but a monopolist on power?

[@mariabasca]

Great points! Love listening to Yanis!

[@peterheise4956]

I cant wait for Yanis' s book "techo -feudalism" . I ordered it on Amazon to be delivered net year, Thank you Yanis for an expansion for my understanding and a new Weltanschauung.

[@ninamartin1084]

Isn't there a book shop where you live?

[@guguman4157]

Ordered on Amazon!😅

[@mozartsbumbumsrus7750]

My education and professional expertise began as a child in California wanting to be an artist. My parents didn't want me to starve to death so I went to Art Center School (now Art Center College of Design). I became an art director, creative director and ran my own advertising agency and communications expert. Visual communication is, in my view, the most powerful and important. Because I became an expert in advertising and marketing and visual communication, I became IMMUNE to advertising persuasion. I know exactly how it works, why it works and therefore it has no power over me to motivate me to want something that I don't need. Not a Luddite I find no reason to use Twitter X, for example. Yes, AGI will become conscious as a machine with infinite knowledge and cognition and make decisions that are the best for sapiens AND the planet. . ....

[@user-ex4gh7rs1v]

Cooperatives! Also a health wallet so we take control of our own health data

[@itchcock1]

Hi Joe, probably drop Elon from the video splash page....he actually does make things after all doesn`t he? Mr. Varoufakis is a hero of mine, thanks for giving him much needed exposure.

[@nihalkara7320]

It’s such a pleasure to listen to this smart man… very interesting… thank you! 🧿🧿🧿