Captain vs Vanguard - Is Made in the US worth the extra money at Thursday Boot Company?

[@Mile-long-list]

Thanks for the video i have the same opinion as you. I have 3 captains, 1 president and 2 Vanguards . The Mexicon boots are made exceptionally well, zero problems. All are awesome but the Vanguard is definitely a better boot and the price difference is worth it. I got a few captains just because of the extra colour selection and to have a few different looks but if i had to choose just one, Vanguard all the way. Very much worth it but it's down to the better leather and materials.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thank you for sharing. I'm coming up on 1 year with my Vanguards and still no issues. Not wearing them a TON of course, but still on great shape.

[@jameswoodard4304]

To me, besides being US made, the leather vs rubber midsole is one of the biggest reasons to get the Vanguard over the Captain. Buying my Vanguards is part of a larger attempt by me to streamline and increase the material quality of my wardrobe. I'm focusing on fewer, better-made, articles that will last as long as possible. For someone looking at boots as a long-term consideration, things like durability and resole-ability make a big difference. So, to me, the difference in that department between rubber and leather midsoles is definitely worth the price difference by itself. This is especially the case on top of the other advantages. I do wish the Vanguards had options for speed hooks and wider sizing like the Captains, though. But I found a good-fitting pair of Vanguards and can get used to not having hooks. Definitely worth it to me.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thanks for the comment, James! I agree with you on the midsole point. I'm always going to prefer leather. I'm actually wearing the Vanguards right now, and while I do wish it had speed hooks, you're right, we can get used to it. Cheers, mate!

[@DMorgan77]

Great video. Please do an update once the Vanguard's are broken in.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thanks, D! Will do.

[@MahBok78]

I recently bought a pair of Vanguards within the past 2 weeks. My Captains had no break in @ all. & I don't think my Vanguards are broken in yet.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thanks for sharing! My break in was very quick for both, I'm sure the Vanguards will be wonderful for you soon!

[@douglasbarnes456]

Good question. I believe $199 is such an established selling point that they’ll lower everything else (materials, etc) before they raise prices.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Interesting take... I could totally see that. Thanks for the comment, Douglas!

[@benfiebelkorn300]

Good breakdown RMS! I've been looking to buy a pair of heritage boots and naturally came across Thursday before but your video explaining the differences in these boots was very helpful.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Hah! Thanks, Ben! Appreciate you stopping by! Always happy to chat any time you want!

[@johnmead8594]

I'm not sure if it's a new addition to their website, but Thursday has each last used for the boot listed in the "release notes" for each boot, and has a "last guide" as well.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Good info, John! Yes - it's a new addition. When talking to Thursday they said they were getting so many inquiries about the topic that they decided to go this route and wished they'd done it sooner.

[@waxedearth5425]

Vanguards look sharp 👍

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thanks, bud! Totally agree. Big fan of the Color 8 particularly.

[@AlSiguenza]

appreciate the video. Great info. Luv the looks of the vanguard. How's their sizing? any differences? TIA

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thank you. Nope, no real difference in my opinion. Take the same size in both.

[@davidbarnes7711]

Vanguards are absolutely worth the extra $66 and are one of the best boot bargains that I have found.

[@ike780]

There is something special about American workers. We strengthen our country.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Love it. Thx for the comment brother!

[@rockymtnstyle]

When do you think Thursday will raise their base price above $199? Thanks for watching!

[@bladerealm124]

Tough to say if they will. They're so established at that $199 price. Once they go above it they're getting closer to boots like Grant Stone which like you said are significantly better quality. But cost of materials may force them to bump up a bit to $220 or $250 eventually.

[@rockymtnstyle]

@@bladerealm124 Yeah it's a tricky position to be in. My first GS Diesel was $340 and they are now $380. It's hard to notice once you get up there, but breaking $199 will be news for sure!

[@GoatzombieBubba]

@@bladerealm124 Grant Stone are made in China.

[@bladerealm124]

@@GoatzombieBubba and Thursday's $199 boots are made in Mexico. Grant Stone are leagues above any of Thursdays offerings (and I love my Thursdays. I have five pairs)

[@steveb2618]

Thanks for the review! I appreciated your take. Lose the music once you start talking. In my view, it’s distracting.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thx for the comment. Earlier in the channel's life I was just experimenting with stuff. Pretty much none of my other vids have background music. And I never did it well... Ha!

[@ShutUpBubi]

Supporting American-Made is almost ALWAYS worth a slight premium.

[@rockymtnstyle]

I tend to agree! Thx for the comment!

[@robertrodriguez1557]

Really good video. I always wondered what the difference was ,and now I know. Thanks !!! Keep up the videos. Just recently came across your channel and immediately subscribed!

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thanks, Robert!! Glad to have you aboard for the journey!

[@MemphisCorollaS]

I haven’t seen anyone reviewing the waxed cacao vanguards that come with a unique dogger or logger heal from the online photos. I’ve seen the videos about their same made in uSA logger boots, but if that version of the vanguard is the lowest cost way to get a well constructed non-block heal, then I’m wondering if it just isn’t a desirable leather. It also doesn’t come in anything larger than a size 11 for some reason. Other waxed cacao boots or sneakers in the Thursday site don’t have that limitation, so it’s be interesting to know why. Great content. Thanks

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thanks for the comment. Interesting observation for sure. For me, I actually love the look of the waxed cacao but am not a fan of the heel. Not sure why, it just doesn't speak to me. Cheers, mate!

[@AmericanCrow88]

They should change the captain to the “ el cappytaine.”

[@rockymtnstyle]

Heck yeah!!

[@MILKWynn]

by pictures alone. i tot the vanguard heel looks taller than the captains. High heels are not good for the backbone and comfort. But glad this video clear up some doubt. Im worried now is this. Im wearing the captains in 9 and its like just right. I dont know if i should order the vans at 9 or 9.5? Also my toes are comfortable. not tight. I can spread them abit Need some advice as im living overseas

[@rockymtnstyle]

Hi! Thanks for the comment. Based on what you're saying, I'd still recommend you go with the 9 since you are a 9 in the Captain.

[@vhockada]

From a long term Vanguard and Captain owner I will tell you the Vanguards hurt my feet on a full days wear and the Captains feel like sneakers still. The Vanguards didn’t “mold” to my feet over time, they flattened out and it feels too hard on the bottoms of my feet. I have 5 pairs of Captains and 1 Vanguard.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Interesting. I haven't worn mine a ton yet, but I'll see if I have the same experience. Thanks for sharing!

[@liljuanito123]

I want to buy a pair of Vanguards and lower the heel stack. Seems too high.

[@FluhanFauci]

what color are the captains in this vid

[@rockymtnstyle]

Natural Chromexcel

[@losdawg6265]

Agreed. Even though the Vanguards a re a little nicer than the standard Captains, at 265, they are getting close to Red Wing pricing, and already at Grant Stone sales pricing. Both companies make significantly nicer boots than Thursday. I appreciate you being honest. I have seen channels that I respect say Thursday could charge 300-400 for their boots. That’s preposterous lol.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thanks! And yeah, we're in agreement on all your points. I have no doubt Thursday could make a nice $400 boot if they wanted, but that's not their business and that's ok!

[@Stringerbell5]

I’ve been very intrigued by the dark oily looking waxed flesh boots. Comfort for me is king over style. I have the Presidents and captains and my opinion is that the president is FAR more comfortable. The heel on the captain irritates me significantly, although they do look nicer than the pres. Tough situation. Thinking about moving up to the GS or Truman

[@rockymtnstyle]

Hey, thanks for sharing! I haven't had the chance to try a President yet, I just always assumed they were the same as the Captain. I guess not! GS and Truman are both solid choices. I have a lot of GS and 2 pairs of Trumans. Hard to go wrong either way! Just for reference, I'm a 10-D in the Captain last and also 10-D in GS Leo last and the Truman 79 last in case you end up snagging any!

[@c.s.herman860]

Which watch box is that in the back?

[@rockymtnstyle]

www.amazon.com/Glenor-Co-Watch-Valet-Drawer/dp/B01D0MRXWM/ref=sr_1_5?sr=8-5 I've had it about 5 years. Really like it.

[@parmenidesofelea9092]

Did the Vanguards come with those waxed cotton laces (in addition to the leather ones) or did you have to buy them separately? I agree with you on leather laces, they look great out of the box but are impractical and look much worse after a few months of wear.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Yep, they came with. Sorry I wasn't specific in the video! Thanks for asking!

[@paulfritz7796]

they do tell you the last kingmaker and so on ,

[@rockymtnstyle]

Quite so!

[@megasoid]

Thank you.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Any time, sir.

[@SmellsYemmy77]

For me probs the captain, im still new to boots my black matte captains never let me down, and the speed hooks are a must, vanguard hmm, might as well invest in grant stone boots

[@rockymtnstyle]

I agree the speed hooks are a nice touch! Still $80-100 more for the average GS. Worth it, for sure, so if you can afford it I say go for it!

[@SmellsYemmy77]

@@rockymtnstyle do you think Thursday’s brown color having more of a color 8 hue? Some pairs I see have more Burgundy than brown

[@bladerealm124]

Great comparison

[@rockymtnstyle]

Thanks, Blade!

[@riothero313]

Well, don't I feel like a dope. Of course I got the only non Horween leather when I ordered my vanguard. It was one of the reasons I didn't mind paying the extra lol

[@rockymtnstyle]

Ha! It's all good!! If you like em, that's the key!

[@riothero313]

@@rockymtnstyle Got them the other day and just had a chance to wear them. I love them, I was stressing all week about the size because my left foot always hurts in all my shoes. It's still slightly annoying but, actually hurts less than any of my sneakers. The "tan spice" is beautiful and slightly darker than the photos online, something that I'm happy about. I picked that color because it goes with absolutely everything except black or the same color tan. I was looking for the most versatility, I live in Michigan and wanted a solid fall boot that I could also wear in early spring.

[@rockymtnstyle]

Glad to hear it. And you're 100% right... versatility is key!!

[@boots_4_me]

I have 3 pairs of Thursday's boots and 3 pairs of Grant Stone boots. The Thursday's I have 2 Captains and 1 Logger in Cacao. Grant Stone I have 2 Diesel's and 1 Ottawa. I think GS is far superior than any Tbc boot except for maybe the Loggers but the Loggers is for hikes and the GS's aren't. I think the $199 price for Captains are a good price and I think they should increase the price but I'm glad they haven't but I have graduated to GS's so either way, it doesn't really matter to me. I love my GS boots moreso than my Thursday's. :-)

[@rockymtnstyle]

I agree with you, GS is far superior to TBC. Although I haven't seen the Logger in person, so I'll have to trust you on that one. I also agree, at $199 the Captains are great, but I've also 'graduated' as you say. Thanks for sharing!

[@ethanbaran6158]

How is the toe shape on the loggers? I'm not a big fan of the pointy toes, I like them more rounded

[@Highland_Paddy]

They're pretty much just charging more for labor.

[@Highland_Paddy]

I ordered a President in one of the suede just to try the fit and thought they looked dreadful. Also, the fit of the Prez was different than Cpt, so don't know if Van is true to either of those sizes.

[@Highland_Paddy]

They still have a paper heel counter. I didn't realize they were shorter. Their "logger" boot is about the only tall one they offer and is nowhere near stout or durable enough for that name.

[@Highland_Paddy]

So this is more like a chukka boot in height, for those of you who already sure you don't like Chukka boots.

[@Highland_Paddy]

The kevlar laces are probably best option out of their offerings, but they are typically way too long for a shorter boot like that.

[@Highland_Paddy]

Their boots all run narrow and they don't offer any wide sizes. They will all maybe get a re-sole but most shoe guys locally won't do the kind of rebuilds that you see in vids where they replace all the inner foam and stuff. I've called three who all told me I need a Custom Boot maker.

[@Coleone139]

I thought the midsole was leather too, on my burnt copper van guard they were actually a black polymer. Yours look exactly the same. There’s also canvas between the upper leather and is lining. To make the leather feel more substantial, but actually makes them feel/wear oddly. I agree the last is far slimmer and not for the better. Consider the made in USA cost, the regular captain is a better boot overall. Your paying more money for “made in usa”. It’s not outrageously priced at all though and if you want a cheap made in USA boot, sure go for it. I might own them still if the last was more accommodating. I still feel their best offering is the terracotta captain. Along with the natural cxl and original brown. I had a dozen different Thursdays and liquidated all but one, the Terracotta. Good review though, I enjoy your content and follow you on IG. There’s a video you can find of a guy tearing apart the burnt copper van guard on KZbin. He reveals the canvas lining. Not to flame Thursday but I’m not a fan of this construction method. Although Thursday boots make great/affordable products and play a key entry level role in the heritage boot/fashion industry. I always knew something about my Van Guards’s was funny though, the leather.. it doesn’t move right. They need to ditch the canvas, change the last, midsole, the leather (pretty much change the whole boot) and up the price to $299. Might as well make it a 270 w unlined quarters while we’re at it 😂 THAT would make their USA line relevant.. which it could be, if they were willing to take that step to higher ground. They have a foothold already.. 270, unlined, $299. I’ve dropped little crumbs to @thursdayboots a few times 😉 We love the brand but to those of us into boots they’ve become irrelevant. I think it’s time for their prices to go up and their offerings/QC increase in quality. The Van Guard line is the way to do it, nobody would be hyped if the price went up $30. Which Thursday can do a lot with if they stray from their current method, maybe even ditch the midsole altogether. Red Wing doesn’t use them. I would love to see Thursday become part of the conversation when talking American Heritage boots. Maybe even offer a leather sole that can crush the 1000 mile. That’s an entirely different conversation😅 The availability of practical leather soled heritage boots. Oakstreet/Wolverine/Grant Stone. Then only a few options and even less in E width. Hot spots. For example if Thursday boots dropped their example of a Wolverine 1000 mile it would explode. Assuming they build it correctly. No poron/Veg tan insoles. Can Thursday not afford to produce something to compete with Red Wing? Totally different labor force and tanneries, which obviously idk import costs from Lefarc vs Sb foot production expenses etc. Though that would make Thursday exciting again to a lot of us, to see the USA line revamped. Correctly. Imagine? Running MTO’s like Truman in the future 🥹 (desirable/exciting MTOs) THAT should be a goal for Thursday Boots. -An aimless rant from an avid boot nerd

[@rockymtnstyle]

Hmmm - I dunno... I'm sitting here right now poking it and looking closely... the midsole feels and looks like the welt, just painted black and is pretty different than the rubber underneath. If it's some sort of polymer, kudos to them for fooling even the closest scrutiny! In regards to the canvas, yeah, I'm with you - but I expect it at this price point to be honest. And it's in all them, hence not a difference, which is why I don't discuss. With that said, I like the thicker leather. My Captains, even though I love them, are a bit floppy when I lace them all the way up and the Vanguards hold their shape much better. Trade off for comfort and looks, perhaps. I like your ideas about Thursday moving up market with the Vanguard line, and I agree going up to $299 probably wouldn't make much of a difference but would them squeeze a little extra quality in there. Also, I think it's less about what Thursday can and can't do... they have plenty of capital at this point (i'd say) to do anything. But their core business model, what made them successful, is providing entry level boots to people like me (from 2 years ago) just getting into heritage style boots. If they started going too up market, people would say "Oh, I"m not payign $450 for a Thursday! I'll just buy a Truman instead!" It's the same thing Hyundai/Kia have been dealing with the last half decade in the car world. Interesting convo, though. I really appreciate you taking the time to type it all out! Cheers, mate!

[@ethanbaran6158]

A veg tanned insole with no foam would actually put Thursday's vangaurd right there with redwings, it's the only real change they would need to make. I have a pair of vangaurds, multiple redwings, a pair of jk's and 2 pairs of White's, soon to be 3 when my mp-shermans arrive a little later this year.

[@jameswoodard4304]

Thurdays are still very relevant. You can tell by the fact that a lot of people keep buying them. I'm sorry if they've become irrelevant to some boot snobbs, but they have gained their niche for a reason, so they don't need to go chasing "relevance" by messing with their core business model. The Vanguard midsole is leather. Both these boots have canvas in them, so that's irrelevant to the comparison. The Vanguard *leather* is thicker than the Captain *leather* . Also, "they should use higher quality leather..." as part of a bid to increase quality? It's Horween Chrome Excel. Maybe you like different leathers, but it's not exactly sub-par. Even the Mexican leather for the Captains is actually quite good. They could tighten QC on which pieces they use and construction, etc., but sourcing leather from quality tanneries isn't an issue for Thursday.

[@jtm2957]

I think Thursday has their place for sure currently. As far as going towards no midsole like Red Wing heritage, I hope they never do that. Boots like the Iron Ranger and Blacksmith, even broken in, are still like walking on a hard surface. Most men’s boots actually made in the 1930s and 40s, had a leather midsole. Wolverine 1000 mile boots years ago was a good option, but honestly, Thursday’s American made line is better than modern 1000 mile boots. Wolverine has greatly cut corner with cheap, leather board heels, low quality heel stays, and pressed paper insoles, and still charging 350-400.00. It’s unfortunate that some of the classic companies are doing these things.