"Carbine" Williams' Battle Rifle: The Winchester G30R

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The Winchester G30R is the final iteration of David Marshall Williams' work on a full power .30 caliber military rifle. The project began with a design by Ed Browning (John Browning's half brother) using a tilting bolt an annular gas piston, manufactured for US military trials by Colt. It moved to the Winchester company, which assigned Williams to the project when Browning died in 1939. Williams first replaced the annular gas piston with his gas tappet system, creating the G30M rifle. This performed poorly in trials, and the next iteration was the replacement of the tilting bolt with a Garand-type rotating bolt, creating the Winchester M2 rifle.
The US military was not interested in the M2 in .30-06, but thought the concept could be ideal for the Light Rifle trials then underway, and Winchester scaled it down to .30 carbine, and won the Light Rifle trials with it. That weapon would go on to become the M1 Carbine. Once it was in mass production, Winchester returned to the M2 design and improved it into this G30R. It was tested by the Marine Corps, but not adopted. The Canadian military also expressed an interest, but the US government opted to not allow any exports, and so Canada never tested it.
The US Army was quite satisfied with the M1 Garand, but suggested that this rifle might be made into a replacement for the BAR if it were redesigned a bit for greater sustained fire capacity. Winchester did so, creating the Winchester Automatic Rifle (WAR), which was on track for adoption until World War Two ended and immediate arms development became a much less important priority for the military.
Thanks to the Institute of Military Technology for allowing me to have access to this rifle so I can bring it to you! Check out the IMT at:
www.instmiltech.com
If you enjoy Forgotten Weapons, check out its sister channel, InRangeTV! / inrangetvshow
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704

[@Purpmaster]

For being essentially a prototype, the machining and overall fit and finish are absolutely beautiful.

[@jamesberry3230]

Winchester already had the perfect rifle m1907 in.351WSL , couple of minor modifications, a charging handle on the receiver side and gas delay blowback action

[@SafetyProMalta]

That's a beautiful rifle.

[@charlesinglin]

This design actually came back in the late '50's as the Winchester Light Military Rifle, which competed against the AR-15. It was scaled down for the .223/5.56mm cartridge. Nathaniel at TFBTV did a piece about it a while ago.

[@charlesinglin]

www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/15/firearm-showcase-winchester-lightweight-military-rifle-cody-firearms-museum-high-res-pics/

[@CadillacFleetwood68]

I would say that of all the rifles Ian has reviewed, this is the one I would love to own a reproduction of the most. It's just an incredibly cool design and beautiful rifle.

[@wraithwyvern528]

This thing would've been slick even in the civilian market today, I kinda wish this whole rifle system was more widely adopted even if by civilians.

[@ozdavemcgee2079]

Interesting weapon. Im kinda surprised it wasnt 7.62 converted and put up as a trial against M14.

[@vaclav_fejt]

I'm not. The M14 was entered only due to Springfield's "we basically already have the tooling, it will be cheaper than adopting the FAL or G3."

[@kameronjones7139]

Václav Fejt that was a pretty good selling point honestly

[@vaclav_fejt]

The best. It sold the rifle despite being completely wrong.

[@kameronjones7139]

Václav Fejt leave it to the army to not actually look into the clames others make....

[@Siencyns1989]

This is an educational channel, stop talking dirty.

[@samhoot101]

Rewatching and just want to reiterate how beautiful this rifle is. Nothing against the Garand, its a beaut too, but this should have been our rifle. Such a cool piece.

[@user-bn3zo3mh5v]

If there was ever an elegant looking gun with a big box magazine, this is it. Beautiful! Thank you Ian!

[@stevotv6457]

This is a beautiful rifle. Seems about perfect to me in quality and operation. I really like this gun. Wished it would have made production.

[@The007lord1]

BAR, Browning Automatic Rifle WAR, Winchester Automatic Rifle So did colt ever make a CAR?

[@bigmal1690]

007 lord1 I wonder if the converted BAR mag still works in the BAR, it would be interesting to know if that rifle would have made it into service, they could have have some comparably with mags in the field?

[@PureCountryof91]

Monitor its a colt made bar weapon

[@jordansmith3721]

Yes lol CAR-15

[@Hubert_Cumberdale_]

WAR is just the best name for a gun ever.

[@shawnr771]

General Motors made M16s.

[@johnparrish9215]

Oh I wish they had built a few million of these.

[@antonizajac3907]

John Parrish sort of like an FNAR, a rifle stocked box fed 30 cal but with a different gas system

[@andfranky8963]

The sound of that action says precision manufacturing. It sounds so smooth, probably the best sounding action I've heard.

[@digschopper9321]

Smoothly " snickety".

[@Axemantitan]

It's strange that the Marine Corps wanted this 8.5 lb rifle lightened when the M1 Garand is 9.5 lbs.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Why is that strange? The Garand just as a drill rifle I found to be heavier than it needed to be.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

@DH A lighter weapon is always desirable.

[@-John-Doe-]

@@WALTERBROADDUS They turned down this 8.5lb rifle because it was _too heavy._ The Garand was 9.5 lbs.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

It's a war production issue. It's going to take time and cost money to build a new rifle.

[@stephen9894]

I know I'm late to the comments here but it's possible that going from 9.5 lbs to 8.5 lbs wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant all of the paperwork, money and hassle in adopting a new rifle. If it was around the 7 lb mark then that's a pretty big difference and could have been enough for them to go through the process of adopting a new rifle in early war time.

[@doorswhofan]

INCREDIBLE travesty this was never mass-produced. Would be a must-have for my collection.

[@Blade40688]

I am pretty sure you could start an oil company if you wiped that gun down.

[@Zbyhonj]

...that's the finish ya dingus.

[@blinkx1070]

Watch when Ian pulls the mag out, its all covered in oil

[@zakk4321able]

Zbyhonj nah that's a lot of oil and grease bud yes it's a deep blue but still a lot of oil and grease

[@panzerabwerkanone]

It's a museum piece not a fielded rifle. Layered in oil to prevent fingerprints while handling. I'm sure all museums with rare and unique firearms have a their way of preventing any deterioration of their exhibits.

[@xmm-cf5eg]

You should see my AK, gotta prevent jams and wearing on the materials or the rifle due to friction somehow.

[@srice8959]

Carbine Williams is literally my favorite movie since I was a kid in the early 70’s

[@ryanvargas4889]

I prefer original milsurp of course but this is the only rifle I would buy a reproduction of. Seeing as theirs just that one I know of so far and it’s priceless. Such a great gun, thank you Ian!

[@randywatson8347]

I can already imagine the feel of cycling the gun. Smooth, no wobble, keeps everything in place with nice amount of springtension.

[@stephensands3485]

Most impressive part about this rifle to me is the quality of the production. Everything is so beautifully machined and smooth and the fit and finish of the rifle is impressive. Reminds me of a very finely made 1911-style pistol (like a Korth) in terms of how every moving part seems buttery smooth and tightly fit.

[@MadM0nte]

Upon seeing gun. "Wow, that kind of looks like an up-scaled M1 Carbine lol."

[@Buzbikebklyn1]

Exactly! It one ups the M1. It's a shame that it wasn't mass produced by Browning.

[@MadM0nte]

@@Buzbikebklyn1 Forgotten Weapons has convinced me that US ARMY Ordnance Corps should have been tried at Nuremberg with the Nazis.

[@Spartan536]

@@MadM0nte They had some brain dead moments, and even more to this day. Their reasoning for not liking magazine fed weapons was... 1. Magazines add cost, need it to be cheaper 2. BAR Magazines were notoriously weak, and this made the Army question reliability of magazine based weapons, but it really was just bad design and QC due to cost. 3. OuR SoLdIERs WiLL ShOOt tOO MuCH.... NO MaGazInEs, EVUR! The M4 replacement test that happened under Obama's era was marred by the requirement to have the same loading and operating characteristics as the M4/M6, there was going to be a replacement, the ADCOR Arms B.E.A.R was soundly beating everything else and Colt got pissed that their M4/M16 "upgrade" was tossed out in the 2nd round of testing, so COLT sued and when FN's product was losing to the ADCOR one, they also started legal threats, so 1/2 way through the final round the US Army said "NOPE, we are cancelling it".

[@Ashmoleon2006]

lets get this out on a tray, nice!

[@LoneWolf051]

this has a pretty oily texture to it

[@llamamanism]

we watch the same channels

[@Michael-im1vc]

Kinda oily, but a solid.... even satisfying texture

[@n147258noah]

It all crosses over...so we've got Steve, Ian...anyone else watch Nicholas Moran (Chieftain) too?

[@seabob337]

I just gotta remark on how exceptional it is that this gas tappet (sp?) system scaled just fine both down to .30 carbine and up to .50 bmg, and is conceptually not super far off from the DI in the AR15.

[@andrewwaterman9240]

I'm in awe of those old-timey machinists. Such beautiful work.

[@louiswarmoth7354]

Yep. No computers involved...only skilled hands.

[@johnoneil9188]

Man, you can really hear and feel how smoothly that gun operates.

[@jeffcamp481]

That is a beautiful rifle! Thank you for all your work!

[@billsmith5166]

Very nice. The machining on some of these weapons is so amazing,and it's also pretty nice looking.

[@JimmySailor]

1943 was just about when the M1C was showing how serious it’s teething problems would be. What if the USMC had ordered a couple thousand scoped G30R’s? That receiver looks like a rock solid location for a scope base and being equipped with mags already the rifle would be easily set up. Such a rifle could have been a fantastic combat sniper rifle.

[@neo66ghost]

I enjoy all your reviews it's a pleasure to learn about the mechanics that went into these prototypes and ideas!!! Keep up the good work!

[@WetDoggo]

It's awesome that you do this. The quality of your videos definitely improved over the years.

[@mothershipq1973]

This looks like the love-child of a G43 and an M14

[@istillhavetenfingers8150]

I like how every gun Ian mentions in his videos he can already say, "I have a video on that too."

[@gooondie]

Very interesting video Ian! Your channel gets me through the morning before work everyday, thanks dude!

[@stevelemmen7048]

I wish it, or rifles like it were available in abundance on the open market.

[@TheErr0x0000]

Beautiful gun. Might be my favorite so far!

[@anatolib.suvarov6621]

Ian; The unexplained milling, may have been an attempt at making the weapon system lighter, but it was determined that they could not safely do it, so abandoned that line of work, and went with the WAR line instead. SFC Bruce R. Gadbois

[@donlabrecque1663]

I've lived in Florida my whole life, but it's the first time I've heard of the institute of military technology. Thanks for enlightening me and visiting my part of the country. Hopefully we'll see more segments from this location.

[@stephenj.mst3kfan836]

She is a Beautiful rifle! Too bad we can't buy a reproduction of it at least. 😥

[@jubb1984]

Wow this was a beautiful rifle, looks so well made.

[@t.versteeg3723]

I saw the movie about Williams' life with James Stewart once. Great movie!

[@Easy-Eight]

Best lines from the move, "He got in a fight at school. Did he win? Oh, good."

[@PRACERZ]

Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention, love old semi autos and this one is DAM SWEET !👍

[@jeffadams9807]

Have U Ever Tested The Russian SVT-40 ???

[@PRACERZ]

@@jeffadams9807 my son and I both have SVT40s. All I can honestly say is WOWED. Incredible firearm. Imho

[@BigHarryBalzac]

That is one REALLY nice looking rifle. Something about the front of the handguard area makes me think of an old H&K, but I don't know why. I honestly can't say i know of one that looks anything like that.

[@warrenharrison9490]

This is a rifle that would be an awesome reproduction with a better magazine design. What a beauty.

[@ccfmfg]

You should have mentioned the Carbine Williams Movie that Starred Jimmy Stewart.

[@Bob.W.]

Thats why I clicked on this.

[@Arakal421]

This has got to be one of the most gorgeous rifles I've ever seen.

[@jeffreymcfadden9403]

beautiful machine work.

[@tridentrex0576]

Oh my... oh such a beautiful rifle. Oh I want one.

[@davidwallace5738]

Great video and info. Thanks buddy !

[@dwb345]

This is a seriously nice rifle, thanks for the video

[@crabmansteve6844]

That rifle is absolutely stunning

[@himlowodinmire1333]

Thanks for the early morning upload :)

[@francisaje]

Really good looking rifle.

[@tonyktx44]

But, that's not a French rifle....

[@edgarjimenez8486]

???

[@exploatores]

it´s not the french weapon channel :)

[@vaclav_fejt]

The longest specialised period was the Bergmann line.

[@vettekid3326]

Thank god, I'm sick of all the French guns.

[@dereks6636]

Tony King so

[@Jabberwockybird]

I can imagine someone who's used to an M1 Garand accidentally dropping the magazine while thinking they're putting it on safe

[@shadowfoxcorp]

That rifle is magnificent!

[@Scott079]

I'm hoping there's a shooting video of this rifle coming, it looks like a awesome rifle

[@curtisdowling3773]

Awesome rifle !! I want one !!

[@joshmeads]

This would have been great in Canadian service. We used the Lee Enfield, so a semi auto with 20 round box magazines would have been amazing! Probably would have saved Canadian lives.

[@rogerhwerner6997]

That's one georgeous rifle!

[@edwardanenberg349]

Elegant strong looking action 👍

[@retrocny5625]

This is one of the most gorgeous rifles ever created, in my opinion.

[@roanhielkema5714]

that's an absolutely gorgeous rifle.

[@coolperson1987654321]

Ian you should check out the experimental Thompsons...specifically the persuader and annihilator!

[@warmongerairsoft]

Anyone else listen to Ian say “there were only (blank) many EVER PRODUCED for the 1,000th time and think to yourself “Wow, he’s held more money (rare guns) in his hands than I’d make in 50 life times”. Then think about how you love Ian but envy him and therefore hate him on some level. Cause I do; frequently.

[@therrdon1841]

With the G30R already in their inventory, why didn't Winchester compete in the trials that resulted in the M-14. With the tappet gas system proven in the M-1 carbine, it seems that a select fire fire control group would have guaranteed a win. converting from 30.06 to 7.62 is certainly a not issue.

[@joefoam794]

I gotta ask, who dislikes these videos? They are educational, well produced and not politically motivated. They are simply historical in nature. Keep up the good work Ian, I'm not afraid to learn something. For you mouth breathers out there, simply don't go to this channel and you won't be 'triggered'.

[@joefoam794]

+comsubpac You and I get that, and as an internet blogger Ian has to have some thick skin to brush the negative comments aside. I get the feeling the dislikes come from anti gun types with a lot of time on their hands trying to make a statement.

[@haroldellis9721]

My best guess is mouth breathers who were looking for the Amazon link to guy the firearm featured.

[@emirsuljagic5084]

Some could even be chalked up to accidents, like on touch screens I’ve accidentally disliked videos without realising or meant to like it but you miss it since it’s just a simple touch or swipe over with your finger.

[@enriqued8401]

It may have ended up on their auto playlists, doing the thumbs down would keep it off.

[@phileas007]

I've disliked it because of your comment, Joe

[@swillm3ister]

What a beautiful rifle.

[@johnparrish9215]

That is a very good looking rifle. I rather wish Winchester had of built a few thousand for civilian sales.

[@psychosneighbor1509]

That's a beautiful gun right there...

[@CitationZac]

If I could chose one person's job in this world it would be Ian's job. This is my dream... I will never make enough money to buy all the firearms that I like so the next best thing is the be able to shoot them. You're the man Ian.

[@gunner678]

Good looking weapon!

[@timknapper6990]

Interesting that they made all that stuff captive.

[@stevendeatley4878]

neat rifle thanks for posting

[@jimh6763]

Looks like a nicely finished, and designed rifle. You never really say why it wasnt adopted or produced?? Id buy one!!

[@keithdurose7057]

Regarding the sights. The folded peep sight is no doubt a battle sight. For those Oh crap! Moments. If it has a larger hole to look through. It may be for use in low light level situations like at dusk. Some FN SLR's in British service had two flip up rear sights. One is not adjustable for low light use. The other was for normal use out to 600m.

[@funkla65]

Good looking design. Vs the M1, less jangling stuff hanging on the barrel, and with what is hanging on the barrel being farther from the muzzle, ought to increase accuracy potential. And, gas system is using hotter, higher pressure gas, so the system should accumulate carbon more slowly. Mass is more centralized, too, which should enhance handling.

[@billsmith5166]

That's gorgeous.

[@johnm3907]

Thats a nice looking gun, nice soft lines to it.

[@acklan3]

Ian what is you opinion of the Winchester G30R vs the M14?

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

Even without knowing anything about them, some firearms just look cool - this falls into the into the very cool category.

[@mikedertouzos908]

That rifle is beautiful

[@PedroThePanda64]

This gun is the definition of eye candy.

[@Mrgunsngear]

great info

[@magadude9131]

That's one sweet rifle !!

[@HustleMuscleGhias]

If the History channel was like it was years ago before the reality TV bug took hold, I think your community as a whole would petition for you to have your own show similar to the old "History of the Gun" series.

[@OneofMyTurns]

Very nice

[@daltonmann4916]

that is a sweet looking rifle!

[@alonzahanks1182]

The thing is the pitors with piston recoil is the same as a bolt action The Garand and M14 Gas systems are smooth operators with a quarter of the recoil

[@g-dcomplex1609]

definitely one of the best weapons ever designed

[@wkingston1248]

That gun smells of high-quality. It looks so clean and sleek.

[@timbirch4999]

Ian, just FYI, it's a "script typeface", not "font". A font is the complete and entire description of EVERYTHING about a piece of text - the typeface, the height, the pitch, the leading, kerning, etc. etc. It's a common misuse of the term, and I blame Microsoft for changing the word "Typeface" to "Font" in their products.

[@AdrenalineJunkieXL]

Hey Ian why don't you do a winchester video in the same way you did who is colt video? I know you said your busy but was just wondering if you were sort of cancelling that series or your just way too busy which I understand lol

[@SuperStrange101]

Just out of curiosity, would you be able to get your hands on a g36 and discuss the issues behind it? I feel like it would be cool to get some of the history on it and to hear more about the recent issues behind the design, or the politics behind getting rid of it.

[@dak4465]

I need one of these

[@ronjeffers5133]

Thanks

[@wesleydaughtry6054]

Does Ian have a video about all the different types of semiauto gas systems like long stroke or roller delayed etc. There are so many to memorize I get confused with what's what. It be nice to have an example of a common rifle for each system also.

[@MeekoSan]

Cool!

[@edgarjimenez8486]

This is the greatest carbine of all time. Nice way to wrap up the history of the G30 rifle.

[@thetoneknob4493]

if they made these scaled to the nato 7.62 cartridge in semi auto it would be like printing money cause everyone would want one! or even a tiny version of it in 5.56 would sell like hot cakes now a days! im still surprised that no one has scaled up a m1 carbine around the 5.56 cause that would be popular with lots of folks! or a new Tommy gun in 5.7 with 50 rnd stick mags..maby some day?

[@stephennelson4954]

Calling it now this rifle is going to appear in this year's battlefield.

[@ElMarko6994]

Ole carbine was my granny’s first cousin, lol my dad said he always called him uncle carbine because he thought that was his real name