Carbon Fiber VS. Aluminum Risers | What Recurve Riser Type is Best?

[@lsumme21]

I think a lot of people would benefit from seeing a budget bow build compared to a higher-end build. Appreciate the videos, Jake!

[@RomuloCholewa]

It's really funny how every time I search to answer a question I have about archery, I end up in a video from you explaining exactly what I was looking for :D

[@nightranch6218]

plenty (probably the majority) of anodized risers either have their anodization applied directly off of the Cnc machine or use a bead blast process instead of hand polishing. In fact I think it is quite unique for Hoyt to use hand polishing before cnc. MK and Fivics would even leave the tool path visible for kind of a decoration. I think your point against anodization it’s really about anodized hoyts instead of anodized risers in general.

[@oniesma]

I think you're right about the differences between anodizing and powder coat. I'm working in plating/coating industries and u are absolutely correct in terms of manual buffing and its effect. I love all your video that I watched so far and it is very informative. I'm new in archery and I think your channel is the right place that I can learn more about it. Nice job and done sub👍

[@blizzbee]

I own and shoot both a hoyt GMX and a w&w inno cxt for long and still own both. To me, their feel difference are huge like night and day but i would say they are equally good... likebi couldn't decide which one i prefer. The gmx is very punchy like baseball bat while cxt is kinda like boxing glove punch. They both feel great in their own way. So i keep both and switch shooting from time to time.

[@adamkilroe9840]

I have several risers, and my most expensive one is a WIN&WIN CXT, and its lovely, if heavy. Its comfy, well balanced and comfortably handles 54lbs and ACEs. Then I decided to get a cheap riser to stay shooting off the thumb with heavier draw weight. So I got a Spigarelli Revolution. Wow. NO vibration, 63lbs, much more forgiving even with a short riser, short limbs and a 31" draw length. I don't think I'll ever change risers, it's the best I've ever shot.

[@GuildMember]

I hope I haven't misread your comment, but you said the spigarelli can take over 60lbs in draw weight?

[@-fazik-3713]

I have a (aluminum) Hoyt Nexus and a (carbon) W&W CXT. The CXT is so much more "pleasurable" to shoot that it is hard to believe the difference.

[@hotchihuahua1546]

In the motorcycle industry in the late 1990s carbon fiber gained popularity and is still being used today ! Carbon fiber is much improved but like a wood bow requires protection , wood more for moisture and carbon fiber for UV rays . I would think your CXT feels more like a wood bow in your hands and has the characteristics of less vibration when shooting . I just purchased a set of composite carbon limbs from a French manufacturer UUKHA @ 42 lbs to see if I like them . I still like the look and designs of the aluminum risers , they are a thing of beauty ! I’ve been in archery since 1966 and the advancement in archery and equipment has been phenomenal ! Know if we can just get more places to shoot with 3D !

[@-fazik-3713]

@@hotchihuahua1546 Since the comment I also bought the Gillo G1 riser. I do not see any difference between shooting it nad the Nexus. CXT still feels more natural to shoot. Just like wood that I'm used to since 2004 :).

[@hotchihuahua1546]

@@-fazik-3713 I assumed the carbon fiber would feel more like the wood but your statement confirms it . I’m sure I will get a chance to try one out in the future . On another note , Jake Kaminski’s KZbin came up because I had an interest in archery , I am impressed and like his format , I subscribed to his channel !

[@-fazik-3713]

​@@hotchihuahua1546 Hands down it is The best channel about archery on youtube.

[@MONKLJ]

I just purchased a slightly used Win & Win Carbon Black Wolf riser 17", your right they are very quite . Set up with HOYT Traditional medium limbs, abosolutly amazing

[@antwantuan4040]

Thank you for chiming in the age old debate with valuable informations

[@peterchang3998]

I have tested vibrations frequency of the carbon TFT and ALU AXT. the carbon riser vibrates at much higher frequency (30k~kHz) than the ALU riser (100~1000Hz)range. the high frequency vibration on the carbon riser dissipated very quickly. carbon is rigid, it just can not damp the vibration. it vibrate faster so the energy goes away quickly. it may be too high to human to hear and feel. but affect the bone and join more.

[@lindawoody8501]

Good to know. As a competitive target compound shooter, because I am older and not as strong as I used to be, I shoot a carbon hunting model, Hoyt Carbon Defiant, 2017 model. Set up, my rig is just a shade over 5 pounds including stabilizers, sight and rest. If I shoot recurve again as a competitor, I think I would be shooting an aluminum riser.

[@PaulXerxen]

"From and engineering standpoint" says the guys who's not an engineer. I've been shoot a Win & Win CX7 for years. I'm a barebow shooter and in my opinion its great. Never had any problems with inconsistencies in the manufacturing process.

[@evilryu29]

I really enjoy listening t him talk about bows

[@turanarcher]

This is an interesting video to consider some of things. I have an alu and a carbon riser as well. Sorry, but I rather prefer my W&W Inno carbon riser :) But it would be great to hear about the comparison between foam-carbon and wood-carbon limbs.

[@HambledonRehab]

It would be great if you could make a note of the equipment featured in the videos in the description 🙏

[@websitesbymark]

Going to be a little controversial here and say that I think personal feel probably trumps every other consideration. When you find a riser you like, during the shot sequence you are probably getting all sorts of feedback from the riser experience and especially at the exceptional level you shoot, you probably know a 10 as it leaves the bow. So as a carbon riser feels different, you probably don't get the same sort of clues its a good shot. Where I do think the carbon is a distinct advantage for me (target barebow) is a very short distances I can raise the nocking point substantially and the bow still be usable. With an aluminium riser I don't seem to be able to make as extreme adjustments before the bow becomes unusable. Reason for this trick for me is it allows me to anchor underchin and be point on without having to add stupid amounts of weight to the arrow point.

[@adamkilroe9840]

I have used various risers, cast aluminium, machined aluminium and cast magnesium, wood and carbon fibre...carbon fibre is cool....in theory. I have a WIN&WIN CXT. I have never felt so much hand shock. Wood feels nicest, but...not the best performing. Cast magnesium, not bad, but..not great. By far the best in terms of hand shock absorption is machined aluminium, and the Spigarelli Revolution, despite its other flaws (weight, thickness, looks) has integrated shock absorbers isolate the grip from the load bearing section of the riser, and even with very heavy draw weights (I hold 72lbs on my thumb) NO hand shock at all, not even in barebow configuration.

[@bobjimenez4464]

thanks for the video, I like my machined aluminum risers too. It wouldn't be very hard to measure riser flex with a dial indicator.

[@tomburton8239]

Having used high-end Win&Win carbon risers (e.g. WiaWis nanoMax), I have just changed to aluminium (ATF-X), initially because it was so hard to find a 27’ LH W&W. But I’m now finding the ATF-X such a sweet bow compared with the nanoMax. Maybe it’s going to 27”, or my setup & tune…. but whatever the reason, the carbon bows were hard, and the aluminium bows are sweet.

[@What_If_We_Tried]

Super insightful video Jake, and very timely, as I am planning to get back into archery >barebow this time< and was thinking of buying a discontinued / discounted carbon bow.

[@marnier15]

Great job on the videos. They have truly helped improve my form and consistency.

[@qiaodantian6661]

Thank you Jake.

[@antreaschristodoulides1954]

Love the vid from the title already

[@dominic6634]

well today i learned why aluminum risers are used I've put about 14,000 arrows through my traditional flat bow this year and it finally went kaput.

[@dallinbriggs]

Yeah. You don't want your carbon risers. You should send them to me for further testing. :)

[@pikobeasttank9645]

I love aluminium riser ATF

[@danielvrana9444]

How about a wood recurve bow once? I have a couple of Hoyt Pro Medalist One Super Hunter & one of the Target Pro Medalist bow from Earl Hoyt’s personal collection... Oh I did get your book. Thank you,

[@athenovae]

Just checked the Xceed, and it’s a neutral balance. Ö I didn’t know aluminum risers usually have a bottom heavy balance!

[@joec1212]

I need some advice. I've heard a longer riser can make for a steadier aim for some. Seems like that for me when shooting my compound. So my questions are. I'm 5'11 with extremely long arms....I was considering getting either a 19 or 21 inch hoyt satori riser, but using black wolf limbs. Supposedly those are the best limbs, and are compatible with the satori. Supposedly the bigger riser is not only more steady/heavy, but the grip is better to many than the 17 inch riser that comes with a black wolf riser. Thanks for any input in this matter everyone. Dying to get into trad hunting. I want to just buy once, and cry once and get a fast bow I can instinctively shoot with

[@syonhazarika1809]

Great video... Thnx a lot

[@d0su]

10:14 Being able to cut yourself on the edges once the powder coat wears away makes me thing they should do a extra pass to smooth the sharp edges...

[@Nbr1PHaN]

What do you think if the atf as a barebow riser?

[@helphelpimbeingrepressed9347]

Is there much difference between forged & billet milled? From what I remember the forged ones are generally cheaper than billet cnc milled, is that right?

[@jas2819]

Not too keen on carbon. I’ve had two carbon clickers and both have snapped after a small amount of use. A nice loud click, but too fragile for me. 🤗🤗

[@WithEachBreath]

I think you have much more "faith" in the consistency of making billets, forgings, and the machining process than in the carbon lay-up process because you don't understand it (most people don't). Even the prep for powder coating, as you pointed out, potentially removes metal and depends on the skills of the operators. Bead blasting to prep the surface is like sandpaper, and too long a pause or heavy hand will have the same effect as too aggressive a buff. I also shoot a TFT-G riser with NS-G limbs. Added Limbsavers and two Yost weights and it purrs like a kitten!

[@dominic6634]

As a machinist i can tell you it all depends on your QA CONTROL and what the customer wants. A CNC can easily hang out in the .0002 of an inch area on aluminum. I do it frequently. The human body is probably more inconsistent than that. Especially with blood movement.

[@social3ngin33rin]

Is your book on the website a digital copy or a physical copy?

[@verano7248]

Nice shirt, just saying😉

[@Excalibure666]

Probably that powder coated riser's "blasting" process is taking much much more material than hand polishing. I don't exactly know how they buff and what material they are using but "buffing or polishing" removes microns level of the material. It's not you can see or feel by touch. (except smoothness/roughness)

[@electoplater]

i have been in the anodizing bisiness for forty years on this subject he doe not know what he is talking about

[@rojatadhka3903]

Hi.my son is 11 years . suggest a good bow in Win and win company 23 inches riser size 150 centimetre height of my son 66 limbs 28 lbs

[@dale2080]

Do you have an degree in design engineering? If not, how can you make comments on what goes into the making of a carbon fibre riser. Have you been to the factory and seen them made.

[@kahlonamrit284]

👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@alp5898]

I've also heard that carbon risers crack from inside over time.

[@mathiashammar1]

So thats why carbon arrows are so popular vs aluminium. The aluminium arrows never crack but the carbon does ??

[@alp5898]

mathias hammar I don’t think you can compare them. They work very differently.

[@SaneAsylum]

I've heard a lot of things I wouldn't repeat or haven't bothered to independently verify...

[@EliteF22]

That's probably an old defect story from when carbon risers were just coming to market, that has stuck around.

[@kevinroberts9580]

I have been shooting a black widow for 20 years. I have been thinking lately of getting either a carbon fiber or aluminum Riser bow with Uukha carbon limbs. I have a 32"draw and this would be a 3-D and maybe hunting bow. What length riser and limbs do you suggest for me? Great channel by the way!

[@dermaulwurf5540]

Hi Jake, tank you for the good comparison. I made the same experience, especially with the vibration after the shot! Just a question to your book "Tuning for Performance". Will it be available in Germany, or will you send it to Germany, too. Or, what I think the best way is, will you offer a download version? Stay healthy!

[@SirPraiseSun]

Drawbacks hah hah, great vid as always thank u

[@ahmedabdeen239]

Do u suggest win&win radical pro or hoyt xceed riser

[@mariospericleous8343]

Good points but.......in my opinion a carbon riser should function more smoothly and consistently with carbon limbs because they are the same material or at least more similar, rather than aluminum riser paired with carbon limbs, completely different materials with completely different properties. It stands to logic to assume that the companies producing these carbon risers who also by the way produce the aluminum risers, most of the time, would check if their carbon risers bend the wrong way under stress within a tolerance spectrum of error that would satisfy them that their carbon products are within certain parameters of straightness and proper alignment and are consistent enough for them to sell them at an even relatively higher price, than their aluminum products most of the time. Also think of this.........your limbs are carbon!....and they are the ones doing the vast majority of the bending by a factor of over 10000/1 and we use them on aluminum risers and carbon risers.......so if there is a discrepancy and misalignment on the bending, where would the overwhelming percentage of the error consistently come from?

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

I hear you, but the riser bending incorrectly would absolutely be magnified by the limbs a whole lot... or rather the limbs would be out on plane by much more then if just the limbs were bending out of plane because of being magnified over a longer distance. The riser flexing just .003" causes the limb tips to deviate more then .030" at the tip. This only accounts for one limb. It may seem small but can make a difference at distance.

[@mariospericleous8343]

@@JakeKaminskiArchery True, the riser is at the center of the bow so the deviation angle of the riser translates into more absolute distance of deviation at the limb tips, with a 25 inch riser plus long limbs we have a 70 inch bow, so each limb should be 22.5 inches long and the riser should extend 12.5 inches from the center in either direction. Now the length of the limb plus half the riser is 35 inches, compare that to 22.5 inches of the limb alone is an increase of 56% of overall length. So now imagine that you have this new ( limb ) that is 56% longer than your regular limb. This new 35 inch limb at its base, the distance of 12.5 inches, the 56% extra length, is far more solid and resistive to bending than the limb of 22.5 inches, but even if it was exactly the same for both, you would have a limb of 35 inches compared to a limb of 22.5 inches made of the same material. If the error produced due to bending out of plane of a 35 inch full carbon limb was prohibitive for using it, then chances are that a 22.5 inches full carbon limb would also be impossible to use and produce good results! That is to say that if this carbon material technology was so inconsistent then it would be impossible to be used for limb manufacturing anyway. Thank you for your answer, it is a good answer which pushes the argument into deeper analysis and thank you for your time.

[@mariospericleous8343]

I understand your argument about the bending of the riser and how as it connects to the base of the limb this misalignment under loading pressure would be magnified in a non linear way cause the limb would be misaligned from its base , but if that were exactly true and carbon was so inconsistent then the same argument would make the base of the limb it self and any carbon limb and through out its whole length inconsistent enough to be impossible to be used, on any riser, whether aluminum, wood, carbon, or any other material, that's why i went with the elongated 35 inch carbon limb example. So that i encompass the logic behind the argument into what is actually being used and proven to work and appease your worries about the consistency of carbon material technology especially from established companies in archery that use this material. You have been using this technology already to such an extend with the limbs that if it was anywhere near as inconsistent as you fear, it would have been impossible for you to be so effective and consistent and reach such heights of systematic accuracy.

[@adm5618]

Bead blasting will also evenly distribute stress in aluminium risers making them behave more predictably under stress. That being said, most risers use 6061 aluminium anyway which will be a mile away from its yield point and major deflection under such low loads (

[@zsombortoth3464]

From an engeneering student's standpoint, I think ur overanalising, but I have no data either to back that up. Great chanel tho.

[@mikeburke4625]

You are the best, but addressing minuscule layer coating or sanding differences is simply absurd for 99.9 % of all archers. Vibration and temperature differences, fine. Certainly balance is well worth considering for elite archers like yourself.

[@Parobro]

there is only one spelliing for aluminium

[@Australian_Made]

· I see what you did there with spelliiing 😉

[@blizzbee]

​@@Australian_MadeLOL 😂😏

[@evilryu29]

Lol if look in the back of he rooms u will he has more then 3 bows and so many parts wow it must be nice to have all that at the ready

[@cameronalexander359]

Not to mention the price

[@Buran01]

Cheapest carbon from W&W is the WNS FC-100 which costs ~320 €. You can get aluminum risers way cheaper but if you look at the top of the line carbons (W&W, Uukha) and top of the line metal (W&W, Hoyt MK Korea...) their prices are ~800-900 € so at the very high end they are similar. As a barebow and compound shooter sometimes scares me that for the money that cost you some of those risers you can buy the compund which won in Vegas this year (PSE Supra Focus, ~1100 $, less than 900 € in my country).

[@electricharmonyac7354]

friends, a wood riser is a carbon fiber riser....

[@ericjones8456]

m

[@ddeboy002]

Wood is the best in my opinion.

[@watchdogkennels5242]

So in other words, he won’t bother to answer your questions unless you pay him for it on Patreon.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Not exactly. It’s just difficult to get to everyone’s questions, especially when I may have a video on that topic. Hard to get to them all.

[@MrDilarius]

There is nothing wrong with paying him. In fact, i am considering subscribing. All this content and knowledge is explained so easily ? Might as well 🤙

[@BlasterKotakatik]

The smile's a bit creepy there in the thumbnail

[@HaneezHaroon]

If you don’t trust the machining process vs material. Then carbon is a no no.

[@peternguyen1911]

Wtf is All Luu Minium?

[@bwfreel]

Peter Nguyen European speak for aluminum

[@botanicapostmoderna373]

Aluminum is the American and Canadian spelling for the silver-white metallic element (number 13 on the periodic table) abundant in the earth’s crust. Aluminium is the preferred spelling outside North America. Neither term is superior to the other, and both are etymologically and logically justifiable. Aluminum is older, while aluminium is more consistent with other element names such as helium, lithium, magnesium, and so on (though let’s not forget there are other -um elements-molybdenum, tantalum, and platinum). Aluminium has the edge in scientific writing even in North America. This is primarily because several influential scientific organizations and publications prefer the spelling.

[@jurgenpogoda9191]

The Carbon Riser breaks inside After a Short Time

[@jurgenpogoda9191]

Al riser is Not the high „Al“ See also the „ Al-Mg“ Material !