The Legality of Card Counting

[@areynolds1990]

I am a police officer in the State of Michigan. I remember early in my career I was interviewing and doing a ride along with a tribal police department. I remember the Lt that was taking me around showing me the department and their locale casino and made the comment that it had been hit hard by card counters and there department had to be on the lookout. I remember thinking how strange it was that the police department (although tribal) felt as though they worked for the casino.

[@CaptainFrandy]

The casino funds their department

[@kaceydillin7367]

Because they do LOL

[@deandecoursey2334]

You make it sound like a card counter should have a lawyer on retainer. That, or hiring a lawyer to defend against illegal or murky actions of a casino employee or a police officer would definitely eat into the profits of a card counter. Why not do a video covering when a card counter wins a lawsuit against a casino or police department and receives a settlement. The only downside that I can se to that happening is giving up the anonymity of the card counter.

[@georgep779]

you know that there is no crime, right? The police isn't allowed to step in and arrest card counters. It's illegal.

[@areynolds1990]

@@georgep779 of course I do.

[@churchyjr]

If "law enforcement" want to arrest you for counting cards, why aren't casino owners under arrest for fraudulently taking people's money?

[@gabesrealworld9324]

I had a chance to meet Colin at a convention in Vegas a couple months ago. He’s genuine guy who truly loves what he does! Keep the great work!

[@Colts63AK]

I’m starting my card counting journey and live in AZ next to tons of tribal casinos so I’m glad this came out and talked about the issues you can encounter. Very useful for me

[@Jaylan-gn5kt]

You ever been backed off

[@paulklemer]

My grandfather got roughed up by the casino security in the early 70's. 👺

[@TxGambler77]

I was a dealer for 8 yrs in Oklahoma. They will use every state, federal, and tribal law to screw you over...and thats against the employees!

[@ianandersen265]

I got word recently that Caesars Entertainment is getting more aggressive at phasing out live table games. This is in due part because of the rising costs of hiring dealers. Some casinos have this messed up attitude, of slowly but surely phasing out their beatable games.

[@jakebaca264]

They have thoes tables like roulette where its electronic and there're like 20-25 players per one dealer I seen it a few weeks ago

[@zamin_ali]

Where I work, the cost of dealers has no weight on decisions the casino makes. They pay us $6.00 per hour. That's nothing to them.

[@sexygeek8996]

I have seen many casinos removing live table games, shortening the available hours, or replacing them with electronic versions. Caesars' casinos are among the tightest I have ever encountered. It wouldn't surprise me if they made such a change just to save a small amount of money.

[@ianandersen265]

@@sexygeek8996 I agree: Caesars Entertainment is run by vicious scumbags. Their comps suck, they shut you down at all their properties for getting busted once, and refuse to pay jackpots more often. Even their good customers and the employees hate how Caesars treats them. Many of their loyal customers who do play at Caesars are some of the dumbest gamblers I've ever encountered in my life, compared to their friendlier competition. The only thing good about Caesars is their willingness to offer 100x odds on craps for high rollers, and bigger jackpots of $1 million, albeit with a ginormous house edge of course.

[@BearHaus]

I just got a membership and I'm so excited. Blowing through the training courses

[@Savagemister]

Your skills are about to ramp way up fast. Enjoy the journey.

[@chrisfinch8637]

"Was any of this legal?" ABSOLUTELY F**KING NOT.

[@andrewmartin7697]

Illegal* lol

[@hernandotorres1234]

"I'm a professional gambler, where do you think it came from?" quality 😂😂😂

[@rathlingthelittleone4329]

its not that the laws are wierd. Its just the cops... They get about 6 months of training at most. Hairdressers are getting 3 years of training. In the USA a hairdresser gets more training than Cops do. Still the best country?

[@KKSuited]

Yes, it is. Next question.

[@jaymarcase9737]

The problem is not lack of training, it’s lack of punishment when they violate the citizenry.

[@rathlingthelittleone4329]

@@jaymarcase9737 Punishment is a form of training tho

[@christophercarlone9945]

I really think we need federal gamblers protection laws. Yet many in the AP community are afraid of the ramifications of being protected like regular uninformed patrons because they fear the casinos will get rid of the beatable games. I pose this simple question to those of you afraid of being legally protected in the future; if Atlantic City and Louisiana and Missouri have to legally allow AP's to play, isn't your fear of losing the good beatable games unfounded considering that they still offer several beatable games in those states? We need more advantage gambling lawyers.

[@MrZzstop]

In those states they can flat bet an AP player, or make life miserable in other ways. Or in many cases they just ignore the law and ban the AP anyway, with flimsy excuses (local police often wouldn't bother getting involved). Also, I heard some casinos make BJ rules unbeatable (6-5, CSMs, etc.)

[@christophercarlone9945]

@@MrZzstop But that stuff happens anyways. They can flatbet you all they want, it's just another lawsuit for them because the casino is arbitrarily changing the games rules to suit their interests and bottom lines. It's the equivalent of a child throwing a temper tantrum on the playground after they start losing at the game of which they set their own rules from the start. Hell I got flatbet at some casinos but that didn't stop me. At some point the AP will have to resort to disguises, using aliases, and rental cars because of the nature of how far casinos are willing to go to protect their bottom line. It ain't worth the hassle imo unless you have a big bankroll. I just don't think it's right. Quite frankly the casinos deserve a nice kick in the teeth.

[@Kanders190]

"You can't prove those chips belong to you!" "You can't prove those clothes belong to you, take them off"

[@CheatRecon1]

Do you have any dedicated videos on handling with Civil Asset Forfeiture public on this channel?

[@jakebaca264]

I heard Colorado casinos are strict in general

[@21AceJack]

Can you be arrested for counting cards? Yes... is it legal? Probably not... will anyone have your back? No... unless you pay 10s of thousands for a lawyer...

[@elektron2kim666]

I have evidence of an online casino (system/network) stealing money. Some transactions (deposits) didn't go through, so I got my bank (in Norway) to take 2 transactions back (as a warning or more evidence) and the casino claimed that money once more and closed the account "until I pay" which would make me pay 2 times for "chips" I never got. I was winning a little there on average so it's just "no. I'm not coming back" for me. I can't do much to a casino in Curaçao from Norway, but the bank did. It might be a third party involved in "the crime" as well, so I feel more safe by leaving it. I took screenshots of the chats and it's in my bank account records. It can also be technical idiocy so I won't give any names out.

[@charliem4867]

I basically didn’t get any info as to what to do from this video 😂. Also let’s give credit to Bob Nersesian for being the top gambling attorney in the US 🇦🇲

[@phuongho6235]

Yes, he said calling your lawyer. In the US, when you encounter issue with the law, you will need a lawyer.

[@nasabob99]

Hello Colin! Thank you so much for all this great information and also for the Tribal Casino Law info! I had no idea that the tribes can do whatever they want on their land and have separate laws regarding their patrons! Since I live here in the Los Angeles area and there are many Tribal Casinos, I still prefer to drive to Las Vegas where I feel more comfortable gambling. Thank you again Colin for what you do for your subscribers here on KZbin! Robert /:-)

[@vegasmitch1472]

Using your BRAINS is Illegal in Colorado Casinos?? 🤨🙄

[@dizzotizzo69]

Just gotta say, I had the best run of my life last night. I played 100 min. 5k max table by myself BJ and played for 30 mins with one shoe. I won 3400 and bailed. I was in for 600 from the beginning and didn't put anymore in after that. So, I won 4000 w/my 600 and tipped 100. I mainly bet on avg of 200

[@johnlabernik4599]

How about requiring you to show ID at the table? A casino in Missouri claimed they card everyone who appears under 35 at the table. I tried refusing to show ID and they wouldn’t deal to me until I did

[@bruce4139]

I think this one they can play but they should still be able to pay your chips back

[@apachewraith]

Make a "work ID". You're self employed. That's what I do when I'm asked by security at a gatehouse or something. You're not obligated to show your ID to anyone, let alone a random company or citizen. The only thing your driver's license is for is driving. You're compelled to show it during a traffic stop.

[@zerostarstudios2943]

Maybe the source is the RFID chip is inserted in each chip after these 2 guys are arrested for making counterfeit chips.

[@chuckecheese4124]

Always great content, Colin, and Thank You!

[@valritz1489]

Always remember: no matter what government level, no matter what party, no matter where you are in the country, the folks in charge like the cops more than they like you. That's why the big assholes in robes have ruled that it's not illegal for a cop to arrest you if they're just flat out wrong and think what you're doing is a crime.

[@imxploring]

So if you get falsely arrested for card counting it's a big payday in the making.

[@victorstevenson7709]

Colin instead of counting hi lo or any other form, what if you counted only 10 - Ace, and divided that by the number of decks * 20 ( The # of 10 - Ace cards in deck)?

[@TheIbney00]

This is a ridiculous about of mental work for what would probably amount to very little increase in EV. Hi-Lo is good because of its simplicity and application to most situations.

[@zgadgets]

It does work with One or 2 decks all depend on your low bet vs your high bet usually 5 times your minimum when the cards are running high example is 1 dollar to 5 and 5 to 25 etc.. Casinos mostly raise their minimum bets and lower their maximum bets. If you bet the same amount all the time the casino loves those players. you will lose the %%%%% for that game all the time .

[@Charleyking99]

Listening 👍🏻😎

[@DonFinesseTV]

Hey man, I love the videos. I am a recent statistics and data science graduate and in grad school now and I cannot figure it out I just lost 700 in double deck lucky ladies, 0.5 deck penetration. I know perfect basic strategy. Where do I start? How do I win I’m playing $15 bets how do I become a skilled player. I am usually okay me vs dealer or with one other person.

[@MurderMostFowl]

Weird thought: I wonder if you could get casinos to back down and find some middle ground… as crazy as that sounds. If they keep pushing to make card counting illegal, doesn’t that ruin the argument that BJ is ultimately a game of chance and not skill, which is the entire justification for why gambling is legal in the first place? It would seem like a large enough group might be able to persuade them to allow counting under a certain EV per day or something? I don’t know how it could be made “fair”

[@paulras01]

Blackjack is considered a game of skill whether you count or not. That's why you don't get a tax form when you win a big hand like you do on slots, which are games of chance

[@franferber1153]

In Spain we must show our ID when we enter a casino. Is it worth to try to count cards after giving them my id?

[@GoBrowns]

Casino Dealers make tipped minimum wage (5$ an hour) , please tip them!

[@MrZzstop]

Very true. And considering how many billions the casinos rake in (from the players of course), it's quite disgraceful how low they pay them.

[@GoBrowns]

@@MrZzstop Well said!

[@calebfolstrom5032]

Colin how should I go about counting in tribal casinos? I live in a place where there is only tribal ones

[@TheIbney00]

Go count as you normally would and just leave if you’re backed off and return to cash out the chips peacemeal.

[@TheRealCHIMShady]

Lmao the tribal stuff, no law and order. Makes you think

[@ZhengyuChen-cv3tg]

According to them, you AREN'T allowed to cash out after you're found counting. Nuh-uh

[@sj_j73]

Nowadays, Seems like casino use cut card so the penetration is barely enough for a player to use deviation strategy. this Still worth the effort to practice?

[@RJones-jc3xd]

As per the movie "Card Counter" (a great movie, but a somewhat misleading title, truth be told) most casinos - the ones in which you are even able to count, given the 6:5 monstrosity and the constant shuffling and the high limits etc, the casinos will tolerate marginal counting but they don't and won't tolerate the kind of ambushing huge, obvious team efforts that show them up. The way the gaming industry is hosing the recreational gambler, assuming (with hubris) that they will play and settle for less, it's becoming less attractive even playing anything. Their greed is short term gain - but what they will suffer is long term loss. Sadly.

[@abigailhonasan3968]

I will sue the casino they scammer hahaha no hell America casino….theft casino …by the business is business no customer no money growth..

[@spirunk63]

Legendary thumbnail, we'll get you out Colin!!! Stay strong

[@robbiebradshaw6386]

I just really qant to get this out there, it needs to be said and I respect that you'll read my comment. Before I start Colin thank you for letting this comment be written and it is a forewarning for gamblers in my area. Although they have what I believe to be mostly fair blackjack thery're craps table is not. My local casino Turning Stone Resort Casino has been caught multiple times stealing chips on they're craps table. I was there a few days ago a fellow gambler and I were at the craps table on the come out roll was a 3 his line bet respectfully lost.However his field bet that he placed won and they took his money anyway, i sticking up for him gor nowhere when the dealer took his bet and said he lost although he didn't. The place is just very what I would call scummy stay away from their craps table if you are smart because they don't play fairly.

[@bonifayjay1254]

I wish I had the mental capacity to learn card counting

[@topofladder]

its not that hard too learn

[@Ripla_Flame]

It’s not too hard to learn how to do it. Practicing is what takes long

[@topofladder]

@@Ripla_Flame yup i agree

[@A_Twisted_Fate]

Learn basic strategy. Once you have that down, ignore 7-9 and count the high and low opposite, so a high card lowers the count and vice versa. I learned the entire casino in less than a year.

[@Savagemister]

You do. Anyone with a normal brain who can see, can do it.

[@thomasmatthews80]

Superb

[@milehighgambler]

Glad I live in CO, they don't have rules against card counting, and even encourage it. Reason is they know most people can't actually count cards lol😅 Edit: that had to be in Cripple Creek Colorado. Alot of cops close there do not know the laws at all. They're still stuck in the good ol boys club slavery days

[@TheIbney00]

Colorado is notoriously the worst state in the union for advantage play. Their gaming commission is awful and doesn’t respect players, and they have been known to arrest and prosecute people for accidentally playing money left on machines.

[@reklaw3603]

damn, i would love to do this. Be over in vegas soon from scotland. Where do i start? Where's my kilt n abacus! 🙂

[@mabs9900]

Thoughts on advantage play on a cruise ship? Is surveillance, possibly a little bit looser because its a ‘fun’ trip/activity?

[@igorgerlovin3185]

What in the hell does 86ing mean?

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Trespassing

[@dwaynecaricofe6166]

I dont think i would mess with someone who still have Bow and arrows axes and alot of of WOODS.

[@Seamus430]

Winning players at casinos need you to lose as much as the casino needs you to lose. The casino isn't paying winners with their money, they're paying the winners with losers money.

[@TheSupervillain316]

I think it was Ken Uston who once said "gee if I lost a lot they'd never have any issues with me playing"

[@tonneblack5168]

Colin, can you do a video for the community on what the effect of the incoming Central Bank Digital Currency will have on card counters?

[@DjDmt]

I'd be screwed counting cards in my city, I only have one casino

[@MaxSterling01]

You could use it to practice though. Just don't go crazy on the betting. Keep it low key and just play minimums. Keep the count and see how it would work out. You won't win big, but you would gain some experience counting in a casino environment. Then move to a different casino and work that one.

[@truckermikemct1]

""My teammates and I", just saying.

[@russellg9622]

This video might be designed to give you a cautionary vide but to me it just gets me excited! As a recreational player it helps knowing how scummy casinos are. I may invest a little more time into positive EV now.

[@anthonyf8121]

The best blackjack game in the last 30 plus years was a double deck game at the Mirage. Unfortunately you will never get a game like this again!

[@playfulcyanide]

Thunder valley in Northern California has a pretty sweet double deck game

[@AnHonest_ConMan]

Can anyone recommend a pc game to practice with?

[@thomasburch1260]

Do you have any right to request the cards be accounted for proof the casino hadn't removed any face cards or packed the decks with 2-9 cards?

[@MaxSterling01]

Dealers are required to check the decks they are using by turning them face up and spreading the deck for the camera when the decks are switched out. A Casino cannot stack the deck or remove cards from the deck by law.

[@apachewraith]

​@@MaxSterling01Not at Seminole owned casinos like Hard Rock. Facedown always

[@matthewreeves3643]

So what happens if you are at Tribal Casino, you go to cash out, they keep your chips but don't cash you out. Are you screwed?

[@jrslugwell]

Basically

[@knowledgeispower9202]

pretty sure that's still theft. 😲

[@MaxSterling01]

@@knowledgeispower9202 Good Luck with the Tribal courts on it.

[@stevenmacchia5617]

Can I get name and number for the lawyer on your podcast

[@nicoplaneta6591]

I have a question if anyone would be willing to help me out!! Keeping in mind that casinos legally have to cash you out. What about when someone may look younger and possibility not 21? I was at green valley ranch in vegas and after a session I went to cash my chips and they were adamant on my showing my ID to cash my chips because I may look young. I explained that the dealer checked my ID when I sat down otherwise I wouldn’t have even had the chips. So I just caved and gave the ID. Anyone know if this is legal?

[@sy-py]

IIRC, the only times they can check your ID for age verification are when you enter the premises or when you sit down at the table.

[@lennyanders1639]

I've noticed more and more casinos on the Las Vegas strip have those perpetual shuffling machines. The Mirage used to have a great single deck game but now it's gone replaced by those shuffling machines which makes it very difficult to win at those properties.

[@MaxSterling01]

Mirage is now owned by Hard Rock International which is owned by a Indian Tribe. That casino is going to be rebuilt soon. MGM sold the property to consolidate the south side of the Strip.

[@azcardguy7825]

I love how pissed the attorney gets just hearing these stories lol

[@justmaynard3126]

Why not sue then? Seems like easy win?

[@paulklemer]

Bob sounds angry at the casinos 😠🤬

[@soybeanrice]

Hey I have the same exact ejection notice from the TOGE 🎉

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

Haha

[@Pbadome1]

Should I restart the count when a new shoe comes out? Or, should I adjust the true count to the approximate amount of decks remaining?

[@ruben2423]

always restart since cards get shuffled

[@jalaniz9204]

What about in situations where the dealer burns the first card of a new shoe, does counting still work?

[@ruben2423]

@@jalaniz9204 yea, you can either ask the dealer to show you the burn card or just keep counting it doesnt affect you as much if you missed just 1

[@DerbyBandit]

Where’s the other video? I didn’t see it

[@Blackjackapprenticeship]

It should have shown up at the end if you can’t see it here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXmuY3ZjhraFY80

[@DerbyBandit]

@@Blackjackapprenticeship Hellyeah, gonna watch right now, thanks for the reply.

[@noahsathletics]

Be careful at reservations.

[@wiliam2166]

what about live blackjack at online casinos? many dont use shuffling machines but still use shoes. Is it possible to count cards there / advisable?

[@MrZzstop]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4Kno62Ae51loZI (Spoiler alert, you can't).

[@TxGambler77]

Those are offshore and unregulated. How would you like it if you were up a few grand, then the next thing you know, you've been booted off the server unable to access it again?

[@Shark9637]

​@@TxGambler77 true and they can also 'keep' your money if they 'find' you to be cheating

[@JLW667]

6:11

[@anthonyf8121]

Colin, what is your opinion on a dealer hitting soft 17?

[@ramycardo]

Question can you give your chips to another person who can then cash in your chips on your behalf?

[@Savagemister]

Yes, but they should take the chips in as if they own them.

[@qvorhies3575]

Give someone $100 to cash your chips for you.

[@qvorhies3575]

@David well duh, someone you know...genius

[@awful999]

@@qvorhies3575 i think that’s illegal

[@qvorhies3575]

@@awful999 nope, it's a gift, not taxable😁

[@travis8229]

To avoid coolers and banning, please respect casinos by only walking out each day with under 1k winnings. Casinos are a business. Individuals walking out with 10k plus wins really do hurt their bottom line and daily profit goals.

[@brandontownsend2756]

Good. Fuck them

[@andrew2393]

I don't understand why you guys would go through all this trouble when you could make so much more money by investing in stocks. It's not worth it imo.

[@unkown9081]

I totally get your point. But It’s more fun this way

[@texasrebel7754]

LOL. That's why so many people make money trading stocks, right??

[@andrew2393]

@@texasrebel7754 Yes and way more than from gambling! You have to fight against a house edge that guarantees you will lose in the long run while in stocks you don't have a disadvantage!

[@MaxSterling01]

Stock markets are gambling. You are gambling that the stock you have will actually go up and not nosedive like a bad Bud Light. Who wants to deal with the ESG BS anyways

[@andrew2393]

@@MaxSterling01 Far away from gambling brother. If you do your research, have knowledge about the stocks you are investing, and are disciplined, you can have a positive ev in stocks. Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat? You always have a negative ev.

[@sexygeek8996]

I heard from multiple sources that the police in Las Vegas won't arrest someone for trespassing after a year has passed (but the casino can reset the clock by trespassing you again). Is that true?

[@MeatyFeet1]

Love this content. Keep it up