Cards That Will Go In A Bunch Of Commander Decks From OTJ

Some more 99 cards from Outlaws of Thunder Junction that will definitely see play in commander.
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[@edhdeckbuilding]

seems like alot of people are getting tarnation vista wrong. it is terrible in a monocolored deck since it couldn't possibly give you more than one mana. it also doesn't see lands since lands are colorless.

[@Zambedos]

Play "A Killer Among Us" and you get 4 colors and could still be mono-green. If your deck already creates off color tokens it could be worth a shot.

[@guico33]

​@@Zambedos you need 3 different colors for it to generate more mana than a regular land. And on top of that, it enters tapped. Sounds like it's gonna be mediocre most of the time, and good sometimes.

[@brandyourfan9244]

Aven Interruptor wrecks Cyclonic Rift. Overload is an alternate cost, and since plot is also an alternate cost, you can't do both.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

so while editing this video i preorderd a couple copies because i realized it's even better than i originally thought.

[@brandyourfan9244]

@@edhdeckbuilding Good call. Keep up the great work Demo

[@gizel4376]

it's also a counter-counterspell since it's impossible to cast counterspell at sorcery speed

[@NakedBandito247]

I believe the reason you’d want to plot Pillage the Bog is if it’s in your opening hand, you can plot on turn 3 when you don’t have many lands, then wait til like turn 5 or 6 so you can dig a little deeper and hopefully get more options. Any other scenario it’s absolutely best to just cast it for 2

[@Dragon_Fyre]

There are other scenarios such as increasing ‘storm’ count or ‘cast from exile’ triggers for which plotting can be advantageous.

[@Spyyrozniper]

Also I believe you can plot on instant speed. Someone's endstep I held op mana, I plot my card for 3 maybe I also held up interaction that I didn't have to use. Then on my turn at sorcery speed I get to cast it for free, that way I can set up for an explosive turn.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

@@Spyyrozniper You can plot a card whenever you have priority.

[@christopherbelanger6612]

@@Dragon_Fyre Plot and cast only at Sorcery speed

[@Dragon_Fyre]

@@christopherbelanger6612 Once it has been plotted you can then cast it at sorcery speed only but you can plot it into exile whenever you have priority.

[@zeta280]

You can't overload cyclonic rift after its been plotted, since you have to cast it without paying its mana cost, and overload is an alternative cost. Another thing Aven does is render X spells basically uncastable, since they cant pump X again. And obviously counterspells are completely useless as sorcery. I think you underestimate that card.

[@gizel4376]

yes, but in the end, it just look like a worst counterspell, the question is how much is it worth to have a counterspell in white, i guess the card can be pretty good to protect a big combo while not having access to blue, keeping 3 mana every turn to cast this seems expansive, but maybe if you have a lot of other flash/instant to play or if you can reliably generate treasure token.

[@BitternA4]

Luxurious Locomotive has the once each turn to stop you crewing the vehicle again. This doesn't come up much but I guess in this case it stops vigilance creatures crewing it to get some extra treasures after attacks are declared before the triggered ability resolves. Its worth noting that using this with Kotori, Pilot Prodigy it would get 'Crew 2' so you could crew this as many times as you want by activating this ability and not the Crew 1 ability. Just to clarify also as not everyone plays vehicles much but excluding this vehicle there is nothing stopping you from activating the crew ability even after it is a creature as it doesn't loose this at any point.

[@harleybaker4684]

My thought was for stuff that makes creatures on attack, it keeps you from crewing with those extra creatures before the trigger resolves

[@Dnallohes]

You’re both on the right track. You have to crew it to attack. You can crew it with any number of creatures at that time, locking in how many treasures you’re going to make if it connects. If you could crew it again after blockers were declared, you could change how many treasures it would make.

[@webbc99]

The reason to plot Pillage the Bog is that you can plot this on turn 3 when you have 3 lands, and cast it for free much later when you have many more lands. It's a great use of it, I think.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

i'd say it's almost a guarantee that i have something better to do with my mana on turn 3.

[@levioverturf9435]

That fomori vault in an artifact deck sure seems like 'throw away a land, go get a useful artifact' i kinda like that a lot

[@MeZimm]

Or if you're playing Daretti, you pitch one of the artifacts that you plan to reanimate later. Discarding is not a downside in that deck.

[@AaronCastillo]

The Aven Interrupter might now be the best white counter spell against counter spells specifically and one of the best tempo spells in the game, especially since it can hit spells that can’t be countered. I’m guessing this is an absolute auto-include for many years to come.

[@imaginarymatter]

I think the Crew limitation on Luxurious Locomotive is so you don't use it as tap outlet.

[@maximum6514]

That and the cards that create additional tokens whenever you make a tokens

[@jojojo9240]

@@maximum6514 but it triggers upon attack anyway

[@c.r.bledsoe9322]

To lotus rings point. It gets alot more explosive in an equipment deck where you can equip it for free with a pure steel paladin type effect.

[@shorewall]

Kemba, Kha Regent is a Mono-white Equipment Commander who creates tokens.

[@Shimatzu95]

The problem is there is barely an overlap of equipment decks and decks that want to sac creatures. So if you just want to use it as ramp worn powerstone and thran dynamo still exist, as do bitterthorn, sword of the animist, sword of heart and home, explorer scope, dowsing dagger and around 5 treasure priducing equipments.

[@andrewamann2821]

Luxurious Locomotive can only be crewed once per turn to prevent shenanigans involving crewing it with everything else you have, in response to the damage trigger. Because crew is an instant speed activation, and doesn't actually care if the vehicle is currently a creature, you could tap your own creatures down, completely, to generate a bunch of tokens, and any subsequent ETB triggers as a result.

[@lordmalkom1675]

This video explains why I love this edition. Not just a bunch of "good stuff" bullshit cards. specific great cards for some decks. I like that

[@epicyoung]

Plot is for storm! If I can set up 10 spells that are all FREE on the same turn, I can absolutely pop off. The only thing stopping me is an opponent tutoring Flusterstorm out when they see me plotting cards. Yes, there are better ways to storm, but if I'm playing Vega, the Watcher (Kaldheim) then I want those cards to be cast from exile. Yes, it's situational, but it enables some commanders that never got love.

[@lordBeerus467]

Pillage the bog seems best when plotted early. Then turn 5 or beyond dig 10-14 deep with all your mana available. Demonic tutor is certainly better but that 2 mana can certainly limit what you can get and cast.

[@rpolito76]

You DO end up spending time talking us out of these cards lol. It's like 60/40. Love the content though and I love that you've become the angel on my shoulder saying "dude this card is not going to do what you want it to do" ... or is it the devil? Haha. Keep it up brother.

[@webbc99]

Aven Intrerrupter is a slam dunk in Burakos, Party Leader. It's a rogue, so it triggers Folk Hero and the party synergies, it has flash so you can trigger Folk Hero on other people's turns, plus all of the other benefits. Great card.

[@zula9696]

The crew once per turn is probably there to stop extra combat effects, tap all, attack with the vehicle, use the treasures to get an extra combat and untap all creatures, crew again

[@lomalindasmogcheck1]

5:22 Aven Interruptor is so good. As a White mage it is a new staple. Protect your own spells is very key. *ofc if someone is going off you can potentially stop them.

[@teokoles789]

As you said: In aristocrat decks Lotus Ring is super strong. Elenda, the Dusk Rose for example. Swing with vigilance, gain life, sac it in your mainphase, get at least 4 vampires, use three mana to recast

[@Ci3nne]

Fomori Vault I believe will be incredible in my mono-red Daretti. Also, with all the tresure decks around, maybe clue, and artifacts in general, I think this is a great card.

[@drummerboy0511]

Worldwalker Helm would be solid in my Gimbal, Gremlin Prodigy deck. I know a lot of people lean into the "artifact creatures you control have trample" part, but my deck focuses on the "create a 0/0 with X +1/+1 counters on it, where X is the number of differently-named artifact tokens you control" part.

[@Gabahulk]

Lotus Ring might be interesting in commanders that want to go to the graveyard AND care about power, like Elenda, the Dusk Rose.

[@canoli62]

One thing to note about Aven Interrupter is it is also GREAT counterspell protection in white. If you're playing a deck with a very specific win con (combo maybe), this protects that plan on the stack. Very under-estimated card I think.

[@canoli62]

The thing about Lotus Ring that makes it good outside of straight sac themes is it lets you sac the creature as it is dying for payoff. This requires you to have some way to spend that mana (a spell to cast, an ability to activate, etc.), but you are basically banking the equip cost for when the creature dies - pay colorless now, get colored later... very old school play style... reminds me of mana batteries :P)

[@TheLongIslandDashExperience]

What is nice about plot is if you have the mana and nothing else to use it on you can pay the 3 mana and then hold out using it until you have a bunch of lands (for pillage the bog).

[@franslair2199]

If i recall it correctly crew does not care if the vehicle is already a creature. The hard once per turn is, then, preventing infinite combats: you untap, crew it, swing, pump mana into something like aggravated assault, repeat.

[@Shimatzu95]

Plot is best used as an investment for payoff effects. As an example any instant or sorcery with plot in a spellslinger deck could be delayed for when you have a good payoff on board, like gruul wort doubling a spell the turn you cast her. Same can be done with creatures, artifacts etc. Besides that there is the ability to play around boardwipes (having free creatures after a wipe) and what was likely intended build up for storm turns.

[@bretts3046]

Luxurious Locomotive will see play in Magda, Brazen Outlaw decks 💯%

[@AidyJamesStevens]

Worldwalker Helm is insane in Mishra, Eminent One. THAT'S a deck that wants that activated ability!

[@LexAnarchy]

I absolutely love Great Train Heist. Another neat thing about it is that it just instant speed untaps your team and gives it First Strike, making for a fantastic gotcha moment when you're getting attacked. Love the versatility.

[@jots083]

Omenpath journey has been great in my loot tKtE deck. It’s built with low mana cost and mostly permanents but the reason it’s great there is because I’m playing the “from exile” version matters. Getting a free 1-2 tokens, +1/1 counters on end step is what pushes it over the edge to being good. The game plan is to grab 2xtemples, 2x3 color lands, and a mosswort bridge. All ETB tapped already so them coming in end step feels pretty good. It’s pretty niche but if you running a temur deck with the lost and the damned, it’s worth the consideration

[@SeekerOf7ruth]

I think Tower Winder is better than a lot of folks think. I do understand that a majority of the other examples given can grab dual lands, but having a body with Reach and Deathtouch that fetches/'revives' a Command Tower to your hand, while not the most innovative or powerful thing ever, still means it should be considered during deck building as much, or moreso, than Sakura-tribe Elder for relevant, multi-colored decks.

[@Jlizard27]

I think it’s somewhat comparable to Steve, but Steve just has so many more relevant recursion or double up cases, and I don’t know how often your Command Tower is getting blown up, for me to consider it better than him.

[@Shimatzu95]

Personaly i like it in budget decks (hopefully it will be on the cheaper side) as it grabs the best cheap fixing land there is while providing a strong blocker.

[@crimsonleg4237]

Extinction Event is another black card that exiles multiple creatures, though you can only choose even or odd mana creatures, not both.

[@923smb]

The Luxurious Locomotive is only able to be crewed 1 time each turn to limit the amount of treasures you can get out of it. Can only ever activate crew a singular time a turn with it limiting you to one treasure a turn. Where other vehicles you can crew any number of times.

[@Osuronohito]

I was really exited about the Worldwalker Helm for my Sixth Doctor deck. It is one of the better mana-sinks I've seen for that deck.

[@angeldillemuthactor]

Lost jitte is great for fringe decks. Those creatures like golem where they get the curse for rest of game. I also threw it in my mothman to test. I have tiny bones pickpocket so it helps steal creatures easier. And helps mothman swing in since he gets huge very fast.

[@ivernedit4132]

This is def a 99 set. So many bangers

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I don’t think lotus ring is that great either it’s just that it has the lotus name which people always freak out about

[@loralexander950]

Love your stuff brother

[@bladetb3934]

Lotus ring is good in a version of feather that like making tokens and also uses magnetic theft to move it around on the tokens popping them for mana. The bottle neck is gonna be that feather only lets you get the spell moving the equipment once per turn. I guess of you run zada too you can pop a lot of your tokens at once

[@crss29]

Worldwalker Helm + Faerie Artisans 👌

[@FredDino]

Lotus Ring, Zirda, and Hornet Cannon or Mimic Vat make infinite sac triggers and infinite colored mana, you can sub the Cannon or Vat for creatures, but you'd need additional ability cost reduction as all creatures that make creatures with haste cost 4 or more or tap.

[@phugginright9407]

I think plotting pillage the bog is more for standard. Say you have a 5 drop you’re building your deck around. Digging 5 deep to find it could be pretty good

[@cannonballbrad9522]

Lotus ring can be good if you have a creature that says equip cost for humans is 1 or something. Then you end up mana positive. Sacrificing and equipping 5 little 1/1s would net you 10 mana cause it’s only equipping for 1 each. That’s where my brain goes with this at least.

[@quicogil4565]

Worldwaker Helm is worth testing in Brudiclad!

[@adamgarcia5616]

Oltec and some of those artifacts oh and the sandstorm guy seem like they are custom made for my Ginger Sculptor deck!!! Love them

[@Jlizard27]

I have a very creature heavy build of Brenard, and Oltec may well be my #1 pick from this set for it. Lotus Ring, while no altar, could be a free sac outlet and Trophy Mage target (though not being able to sac summoning sick creatures is very rough), and Nexus of Becoming could either be a bait card for it, or just a very solid way to cheat in extra stuff, especially with token doublers. I liked Worldwaker Helm initially, but it might be one of those “looks good, but I wouldn’t actually replace a synergy piece with a generic clone effect” situation. Definitely a ton of interesting options from this set for Brenard though.

[@chillinon3263]

I agree Lotus Ring is overall mid for 95% of decks, ones which have ways of making things 0 equip cost or have the ability to attach for free are VERY interesting though. Certainly will be experimenting with it in some Ardenn builds, especially with a black partner pairing.

[@thom_alman]

Lotus Ring would work well in my Osgir the Reconstructor deck, particularly when Zirda is on the battlefield.

[@solus0184]

I think the worldwalker helm card would be good in a Jaheira deck with a blue background (probably clan crafter) as you don’t care as much about the type of artifact token as they all functionally act as green mana rocks with jaheira in play and clues when clan crafter is also in play (this also means you can tap any two artifact tokens and sacrifice one of them to draw a card which can get out of hand quickly).

[@brandyourfan9244]

Lotus Rings needs something to Equip it for free. (Puresteel Paladin) Then it is mana positive.

[@Twime.]

You also need creatures that are able to tap. Not that good.

[@Brooks0511]

it’s says only once each turn because they don’t want you to crew it with one creature attack and if unblocked crew it with 10 more maybe

[@DamienHayesYo]

Worldwalker helm would be awesome with brudiclad

[@bartoffer]

Oltec Matterweaver is certainly more fringe than people give it credit for, but where it's good, it's very good: Tawnos, Solemn Survivor, one of the more slept-on commanders from BRO, is nuts with the card. Particularly since you want to run cards like Schema Thief or Faerie Artisans alongside things like Saheeli's Artistry or Doomed Artisan, you'll have a variety of oddball artifact tokens to copy.

[@dariocampanella7992]

I got a monoblue tawnos. Worldwalker helm seems good in there

[@bartoffer]

@@dariocampanella7992 Tawnos is spoiled for choice from this set. The helm, Matterweaver, Duplicator, Synthesizer, Nexus, Font, Vault - all really strong inclusions just from Big Score alone.

[@27777BigRedBarn]

My Alibou Ancient Witness is considering the Oltec Matterweaver but even then it’s on the maybe list.

[@nicholasjohnson2304]

Omenpath of discovery in a landfall deck, grabbing 5 fetch lands, getting 3 land fall triggers every turn for five turns 😈

[@Jlizard27]

Til someone holds up 1 or 2 mana and pops a disenchant, haywire mite, caustic caterpillar on your second main phase, and now you’re down a full turn and 5 fetch lands. My issue with it is it’s going to be waaaay too big of a target. Even if it’s not the *correct* play to blow it up, it’s far too appealing a target.

[@josephjelinski1489]

Lotus ring would be excellent for my Minn, Wily Illusionist deck! Pump up my illusion tokens so they can swing harder, but also I can sac them for mana and to pull something even bigger out of my hand for free. Might be the only commander it works with, but I think it's a slam dunk there!

[@Shimatzu95]

This is the best use case ive seen so far at least

[@jclav398]

Just a question. With Marchesa Dealer of Death when you look at the top two cards of the deck and place one in hand and the other in the yard, is the card going to the yard a discard? Or is it just placed there?

[@Jlizard27]

It’s being put there directly from your library and so wouldn’t trigger anything that triggers from discard effects.

[@jclav398]

@@Jlizard27 kinda what I figured, but was hoping otherwise.

[@Jlizard27]

@@jclav398hah, sorry to disappoint. Hopefully people will be able to figure out other cool synergies with her though!

[@Gabahulk]

Magebane Lizard is awesome!

[@Jlizard27]

Honestly, the only reason I’m considering Lotus Ring in my Brenard deck is as another target for Trophy Mage.

[@SoulofStorm333]

omg wordwalker helm is just PERFECT in my saheeli the sun's brillance

[@Brooks0511]

interrupter is also counter protection

[@virgilhoward9071]

Lotus ring is good in equipment decks where you equip for free

[@Merlewhitefire]

I think Heartless Conscription works especially well in this set because there's a huge emphasis on casting things from exile in particular.

[@neimaddamienjackson9256]

I think the crew 1 once is there because of extra combats. Set looks pretty deep tho. Thanks always Demo!

[@brandondillard1727]

I think a Bounty Board would be fun in a Sheoldred, the Apocalypse deck but put the bounty counters on your own creatures and sac them.

[@Shimatzu95]

If you put the bounty on your creature you dont get the payoff. Its opponents of the creatures controller

[@granite_4576]

Re Omenpath journey I would use it for basics tbh.

[@natethetoe386]

Lotus Ring - Puresteel paladin, and a token deck, for tons of mana

[@heresyseed]

Plus anybody else notice how the big score just hooked up the science deck from the fallout precon…?

[@franslair2199]

Could be intentional, this deck was panned as by far the worst in the set

[@amyeasler2086]

Hey demo i have a question if you go to end step and discard, but if discarding makes you draw, such as bone miser, from what i read you have another end step and discard again, so do end of turn or beginging of end step trigger again?

[@Jlizard27]

Okay so this is just from some cursory research so take it with a grain of salt, but from what I’m seeing: you discard and the draw trigger goes on the stack, which will lead to priority for each player to respond. Then once the priority is passed, the trigger will resolve and the stack will empty, which will lead to another clean-up step, meaning you could theoretically keep drawing and discarding if you have a deck that benefits from that, but it will not allow you to circumvent clean-up. Edit: sorry, may have misunderstood the question initially. End of turn triggers happen at the beginning of the end phase, and clean up happens at the end of the end phase, so it would not trigger any end of turn or beginning of end step triggers again.

[@amyeasler2086]

@@Jlizard27 thanks thats what i thought but at lgs somone was saying they get multiple eot triggers everytime i go to clean up

[@casketbase7750]

Tarnation Vista is fixing/possible ramp in non-green. It'll shine in low-curve Mardu, Esper, and Jeskai decks.

[@Jlizard27]

It seems solid, but I do agree with the overhyped label that Demo put on it. TBH though there are a lot of similar color-fixing lands that I think people put in way too many decks, like Prismatic Vista.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

Worldwaker helm is great in a brudiclad deck that focuses on making artifact tokens because we don’t care that their map tokens

[@Chainer-he5zr]

I´m going to throw the bounty board in my Breena Politics Deck

[@7uxedomask]

In regards to oltec matterweaver i have an esper artifact creature deck… it’s gonna go hard

[@rgannon15]

Annie joins up seems like it would be very good in a Ramos deck

[@actiondk2279]

I like the Spree cards

[@artingevondyan1613]

Woulsnt tarnation vista give you a color for each basic land too?

[@Jlizard27]

Unfortunately lands don’t have a color identity and so do not count as a particular color.

[@heresyseed]

Teysa Karlov is the only commander worthy of the lotus ring!

[@scottricks1676]

Could be just my pod, but I feel like ppl highly underestimate being defensive with 1at strike. A reason wizards changes alota new cards to only having it during your turn. Also I think plot is really only good for storm.

[@AlexSShole]

Does it exile face up or face down?

[@dimitriid]

I know that everybody can clearly see that some cards are designed specifically for commander, but I venture to saw that Tower Winder thing goes a step further: is purposefully designed for commander precon decks specifically: I bet it will see play but only because it will be auto-reprinted on every single commander precon that runs green so it's instant newbie status card that as you say *might* see play on 5 color decks...Maybe. But it really seems designed to solve a problem that WotC themselves have created intentionally: we'll keep selling terrible mana bases on our decks but we'll put cheap workarounds to make sure they're still very slow decks but now with one more slow mana fixing card.

[@Jlizard27]

The lack of Battlebond lands in precons is criminal.

[@hosersupreme]

I think you're missing the plot...on plot - the real benefit is being able to stake multiple of these spells on a later turn. Think of it like layaway for storm, lol. This can help with storm, casting stuff from exile, psychological game play, and it can help with stacking larger effects while leaving mana open for instants or abilities that go with the plotted cards. Also, if you plot a bunch of spells/creatures, then boardwipe, you can cast them all for free after the boardwipe resolves. I dunno, I like it for EDH

[@Twime.]

This just seems so slow. Your paying mama to essentially do nothing, essentially in the hopes that you can later get the value. Why not spend mana and get immediate value ? The hope for a storm turn also will immediately make you a target to just get beat on or for people to hold their counters since they see your plotted cards.

[@drew-id]

That land looks great for background. Signet isnt as good of a comparison as is a slower anchient tomb....itll start tapping for 2 as early as turn 3

[@edhdeckbuilding]

how does it tap for 2 on turn 3? you're going to have 3 mono-colored permanents on turn 3?

[@NerdByAnyOtherName]

i am not super familiar with the mechanics around vehicles, but I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the "oce per turn" clause on Luxurious Locomotive might mean that you can't "over-crew" it. I don't know precisely how/why this work but I know that normally with a single vehicle you can technically crew it with any number of creatures with total power of any value if you want all those creatures tapped for some reason, and all of said creatures are considered to be crewing that one vehicle. Which in the case of Luxurious Locomotive means that you could tap seven 1/1 creatures to crew it and then when it attacks it will make 7 tapped treasures (for instance). You can still get more than 1 treasure out of it, but I believe as written doing so requires shenanigans with 0 power creatures instead of being able to turn any board of a lot of creatures into a bunch of treasures.

[@Zambedos]

No, you can still overcrew it to go for more treasures. The reminder text says "Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 1 or more." The text is probably there to stop some schenanigans like Emmara, Soul + Intruder Alarm = infinite treasures

[@TheLightningeater]

Are you going to speak on the spell slinger commander, be watching your prerelease videos, but i don't think ive seen you speak on that commander yet

[@Nr4747]

I have a (quite optimized) Faldorn impulse draw/extra land drops-deck and no, Omenpath Journey would not be good there. It gives me one land per turn from exile, limited to 5 total and spread out over 5 turns. That takes way too long. Maybe in a very wolf-tribal build of the deck, I could see it, though. So you might be onto something after all.

[@adoo765]

Worldwaker helm its great for my galazeth prismari deck, iwill get 2 mana rocks for 2 mana

[@benjamingermain4307]

Omenpath journey would be great in my Landfall Toggo Rock decks where I can make up too two copies of this card so essentially I'm now getting 3 Lands in one turn

[@Jlizard27]

I’m sure it slots into certain decks where it would synergize well, but I honestly can’t bring myself to want to play it anywhere, as it’s just going to be such a big target for removal. I feel like either someone removes Journey to screw you out of the lands, or you get some of the lands and become archenemy and the rest of the table tries to take you out.

[@benjamingermain4307]

@Jlizard27 Just like any other Enchantment like smothering tithe someone might remove it the same round you put it down but if it happens to survive till your next turn high risk good reward and even if they do destroy the least it did was thin your deck

[@user-pz2nb1si9i]

When might someone want to target their own spell with Aven Interrupter?

[@edhdeckbuilding]

it's getting countered?

[@user-pz2nb1si9i]

@@edhdeckbuilding plot a spell you cast that does not have plot

[@sebastiangomezbotero7765]

Aven interrupter is busted.

[@OniTreefolk]

On the topic of Omenpath Journey: the best case scenario also assumes that your opponents don't remove it from the table. Those lands are gone after that 🤷‍♂️

[@Shimatzu95]

I dont have a deck for it but i'd say the best case is just grabbing 5 corfixing lands (duals without landtypes in particular) and just let it play out no hard feelings whatever happens.

[@Thoughtmage100]

Doesn't Lotus Ring go infinite with Fervant Champion and anything that reduces activation/Equip costs?

[@edhdeckbuilding]

this is the third combo i've heard with lotus ring that i'm sure doesn't work. you sac your champion and then what?

[@Thoughtmage100]

@@edhdeckbuilding My bad, it was Koll, the Forgemaster that makes it go off.

[@JushakF]

I feel you're seriously underestimating many of these cards. Fomori Vault in artifact deck essentially reusable semi-tutor. 7 artifacts is seriously low-balling what an artifact deck can put out, especially with all the treasures, clues creature tokens etc some decks can put out. , not to forget artifact lands. They also tend to be less reliant on colored mana, so the colorless mana effect isn't that much of a hindrance. Being land it's also bit less likely to get blown up. Most importantly, it isn't a sorcery speed effect, so you can hold up interaction, then use it on previous player's end step to turn to look for a better card - or feed your graveyard to use one of the many recent-ish artifact reanimation effects white has gotten.

[@Jlizard27]

That one seems pretty good in artifact token decks, for sure. I'm not sure he's really underestimating too many of the other cards though.

[@ManrielXiii]

Wait... Aven interrupter can counter counterspells?

[@Jlizard27]

It will plot the counterspell, which can then only be cast at sorcery speed, effectively removing the ability to act as a counterspell. You could cast a different counterspell to counter the Aven Interruptor, but at the point you’re going down multiple counters and would probably have to consider whether it’s a hill you want to die on.

[@arthur-elventoweradventure5689]

The crew limitation is to avoid creating 10 treasure tokens in one turn if you decide to crew it with ten different creatures

[@Dragon_Fyre]

WotC has a “bad” habit of making new mechanics that are just power crept versions of old mechanics. As an example, disguise is a better morph and discover is typically a better cascade. Plot is not a “worse” foretell. They function very differently.

[@franslair2199]

Discover is a "fixed" cascade that doesn't get wonky with alternate costs and the like but also avoids the feelbad moments where you cascade into counterspells and whatnot.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

@@franslair2199 That would be part of the “better” part that I referenced. The reason that I said “typically better” not better is that discover is also different from cascade in that it is an ETB trigger not a cast trigger. This could be good or bad. It would depend on your deck.

[@hanschristopherson8056]

I expect oltec matterweaver won’t end up in as many decks as it should because people will think the deck needs to be able to utilize both modes when the first mode: cast a creature get a token is fantastic by itself

[@Shimatzu95]

Also just copying treasures makes your creatures effectively cost 1 less or lets you store mana. Besides all that there are quite a few cards, mostly red or blue, that make copies that become/are artifacts and even in white thousand moon smithy is just a strong artifact token maker.

[@voidprism_studios666]

Oltec is great in Urza Chief Artificer. Maybe Morska and there's probably some bullshit whitemane lion infinite cast combos

[@TheGreatBryan25]

I agree Lotus Ring is overrated in most cases. It would probably be good in a deck that can cheat or reduce equip costs, but it certainly isn't an auto-include like a lot of people think it is.

[@rogermartinrez1301]

I'm going to liquid metal my commander and creat copy of target artifact. 😂

[@cread13]

You think to narrow or literal with a lot of these cards. An example is the worldwalker helm. There's a lot of cards in magic especially in blue that make token copies of artifacts or make token copies of any cards but are artifacts in addition to there other types. So the helm would be very good in decks that do that to make additional copies of those cards an example could be a Saheeli, the Sun's Brilliance deck.

[@AngelusNielson]

They put the "only once each turn" on the train because you can get multiple attack phases with various cards and it seems kinda broken as is. Imagine this in a weenie deck that somehow got multiple attack phases...

[@brandyourfan9244]

It still gets it's trigger multiple times, if you attack more than once. I feel like that specification on the crew is to reduce infinite combos. Can still go infinite with Najeela fairly easily

[@thalesdanielfonseca2968]

you can crew a vehicle already crewed, so the "only once each turn" stops that from happening. Without it, you could crew it with 1 creature, go to combat, declare atacker, then in response to the attack trigger crew it with all your creatures

[@Dragon_Fyre]

I think the reason is that it just reads as “each creature that crewed it this turn” rather than “each creature you control that has crewed it this turn”, so they are trying to prevent abuse from blinking effects or grave crawler-esque loop combos where you keep resetting the creature count for infinite treasure triggers or a sufficient amount as to make no difference. White blink creatures would be the worst culprit…