Has Therapy Become the New Church? with Dr. Alison Cook

Dr. Alison Cook discusses how therapy has become the new church. She and Carey also discuss the dangers of spiritual bypassing, what to do when you want to escape your life, and how much cognitive dissonance is normal for leaders.
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Chapters
00:58 - How Psychology and Religion Affect the Culture
08:07 - Self and the Relationship to Others
13:21 - Mental health in the church
20:20 - How to Talk About Burnout
23:24 - Deep Realization in Leadership
27:23 - Compulsive Availability
30:51 - Pastors Who Have Compulsive Availability
34:35 - Depression and the Escape Artist
38:39 - Cognitive dissonance in the Christian life
42:03 - What is a Good, Healthy Substitute for Shame in the Church
46:45 - Shame Makes You Turtle
47:04 - The 3-Step Process of Naming, Framing, and Braving
50:17 - Being Numb in Leadership
53:50 - How to Manage Compulsive Availability
57:51 - Blame shifting in the church
01:01:44 - Suffering in a Toxic Workplace
01:04:28 - Dr. Alison Cook on Health in the Cultural Moment

[@jonterry3066]

So so so helpful!!! THANKS 🙏

[@kathyhentschel8104]

I love this conversation! So timely for my faith community and my life!

[@trevgrossjr]

This was really good. That tension she described with God, others, and self is a really great framework. And she was spot on with the over correcting!!

[@CareyNieuwhof]

So glad you enjoyed it!

[@jenniferwick2772]

This video was chock full of wisdom - thank you! I especially appreciated the "toxic availability" segment starting at 27:25. I couldn't put my finger on it until you addressed it, but I am going to set unapologetic boundaries with responding to others in a normal/healthy timeframe.

[@CareyNieuwhof]

Glad this helpful, thanks for watching Jennifer

[@kathleencaudill7717]

Oh my goodness, what an excellent interview!!

[@CareyNieuwhof]

Thanks for watching

[@mrjasonburris]

Great convo… I believe therapy does provide a space for processing where many churches don’t provide that space. I loved what she said….information doesn’t equal transformation

[@michaelgrzech4907]

GREAT broadcast! 2 words about comparison," Killing Comparison," Nona Jones

[@CareyNieuwhof]

Nona will be back on the podcast this fall!

[@loriturnbull3356]

I find that I'm often the odd one in my current church culture. AND... Comparison is a tricky bird and so prevalent in the church. This was a reminder to me that it's fine that the path I'm on is different from other leaders in my community. Recently the Holy Spirit has been telling me to create more margin and I wonder at why I have a need for it while others don't seem to.🤔 At a recent prayer meeting before church I was sharing about how I regularly face spiritual warfare while they don't. And I felt happy for them.😉 And yet one of the senior leaders and I seem to experience it more. I'm thankful for that kind of community. Happy to know someone else who "gets it". What she said about being curious is good. Asking, Why is that not ok for me? Why is that a part of our church culture? Being curious helps me to be teachable and less judgemental. The truth is that I can see things others don't and I often wonder at the place God has put me in. And yet the story of Esther comes to mind. "What if He has put me in this position for such a time as this?" Thanks for sharing this. It's given me a few things to think on.🤔

[@KJ-lb4tj]

Seriously if anyone uses that verse out context again I'll scream 'for such a time as this'

[@erichoehn8262]

Wonderful interview.

[@CareyNieuwhof]

Thank you!

[@raymond_tora]

Great video! Great guest! Love this discussion! I think the field of psychology is helpful if one desires to be more socially adaptable or functional in society. But as a Christian, which is a person who is guided by supernatural principles of faith found in scripture, we ultimately have to go back to what God's word says about adapting ourselves to the principles of this world and our culture. The teachings of Jesus were about as counter-cultural as you can get..And if applied faithfully, I don't think they'll have us concerned with our traumas. Because his teachings may in fact add more "trauma" to our lives. Which is what the "cross" is all about and the end result of practicing his love.. "Turning the other cheek" will cost us mightily... The Apostle Paul also said, "our faith doesn't rest on man's wisdom but on the power of God." (1 Corinthians 2:5) So there is hope against trauma through the power of the Holy Spirit. But Dr. Allison is incredibly knowledgeable and a very lovely lady. I appreciated her views and knowledge very much..

[@zachboles8466]

The question I always have when it comes to this type of conversation is: What did the body of Christ do before the late 60's and early 70's before therapy was a thing? We had "real pastors". Men that sit with people. They shepherded people. They loved and served their flocks. Those men rarely exist in the church today. We have outsourced pastoring to therapists. This is a massive disservice to the people of God.

[@RCGWho]

What did they do before Jung and Freud? And Brene Brown?

[@KJ-lb4tj]

We also had lobotomys and asylums

[@zachboles8466]

@@KJ-lb4tj I’m not sure what that has to do with my comment but ok!

[@jasonpoland1378]

Based on the title I was expecting a different conversation. I was hoping to hear a discussion about the role of doctrine and theology. There seems to be so much confusion about what the New Testament teaches about teaching true doctrine and protecting against false doctrine I was expecting there be to some conversation about the role of the Pastor vs the Role of the Christian therapist with regards to scripture, doctrine, theology. I have been a pastor and a licensed therapist for over 20 years. You touched a little bit on examples when pastors get out of their lane preaching and teaching and speak in an uniformed way about mental health. I thought that was good. What about when therapist correct what they believe is false doctrine / teaching and propose a different doctrine or teaching? I would love to hear a whole podcast about this topic. In my vert limited scope I find a number of pastors who believe that their doctrine aligns almost perfectly with clinical mental health. I I also speak with a number of Christian therapist who believe that their doctrine aligns perfectly with their view of mental health. I would love to hear a conversation defining the role of a Pastor / Elder and Christian Therapist when the two disagree on doctrine and theology. When it comes to a conversation about the "new church" I expected more conversation about preaching, teaching, protecting against false teaching and teaching true doctrine.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

You've kinda hit it with your last sentence...'teaching true doctrine'. When you start to say only you have the true doctrine', you're already in the controlling zone. You have to be ok at letting others be who have done their deep work with the Bible and hold a different theological understanding from you. There are incredibly biblical scholars and theologians out there who hold differing views.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

False teachers really come under a lot of psychologically dangerous models;, controlling, taking verses out of context, spiritualising, manipulating, pride. These are also warned of in the Bible in many of the stories of narcissistic people.

[@Godislove0316]

Yo i love your podcast and your leadership material but how come you guys don't interview more Pastors/teachers.leaders who represent the other 40% of the country (minorities)? Seems like 95% of your content is targeted to white churches. I bet many white churches would benefit greatly to hear about what God is doing in other contexts and cultures that are outside of the white population. You guys are missing out on the work God is doing through the Gospel in so many parts of america and our world.

[@valvend]

Jordan Peterson explores overlap of religion and psychology.

[@valvend]

I used to do addiction counseling and there is a lot of spirituality overlap in that field.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

Loads of people do, primarily any counsellor or psychologist that has a faith. Dr Henry cloud, Dr Townsend, Dr wilder, Dr Diane langeberg, Dr Curt Thompson... These are just a few of the more famous Christian ones I can think of off the top of my head. There are loads of Islamic ones, Buddhist ones, Hindu ones -take a look at Asian psychologists.

[@KJ-lb4tj]

As do just about any psychologist/counsellor with a faith. Off the top of my head, Dr Henry cloud, Dr Townsend, Dr Diane langeberg, Dr Curt Thompson, Dr wilder... Three are just the Christian ones. Take a look at Asia and so many psychologists explore the overlap of Islam/Buddhism/Hinduism and psychology. This is not a new area