Carl Radke & Lindsay Hubbard's "Toxic Dynamic" | Summer House After Show S8 E15 Pt. 1 | Bravo

[@bravo]

Watch Part 2 of the Summer House Season 8 Episode 15 After Show: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYvNpGSwgKqSr6c

[@christinablacken3043]

Carl needs constant reassurance and lacks confidence and stability. Lindsay is critical, self absorbed, and controlling. They both wanted the other to change to feel safe but only felt less safe and criticized in the end. It was a disaster they both contributed to.

[@amandac.2687]

I think you nailed their attributes on both sides. I don't understand how some are just totally TEAM LINDSAY, not recognizing any of her flaws...

[@bjarczyk]

It didn’t help when she was constantly putting him down, but he should’ve stayed single longer. He got sober but still had/has a lot of additional work to do to find himself. He takes a lot of accountability while Lindsay won’t take an ounce of it.

[@anovosedlik]

Agreed. I have gone through abusive (like SERIOUSLY abusive) relationships and I can tell that while Lindsay isn't full-blown abusive, she certainly isn't the victim. Carl was smart to move on.

[@amandac.2687]

@@bjarczyk Agreed, in no way defending Carl because I think he said some nasty things, and I didn't like his indirect forms of communication, but the fact that Lindsay said she was super "blindsided" by his decision not to proceed with the wedding and instead breakup shows her utter lack of self awareness. The fact that she still wanted to marry him at the end of the day despite their mega issues (even though she said she wanted to "work it out") is also surprising. I think Lindsay will always be a repeat offender in every relationship, because she doesn't take accountability for anything. I hope Carl stays single for the next few years and prioritizes figuring out his next career move and his sobriety until he heals and determines what type of relationship he actually wants.

[@amandac.2687]

@@anovosedlik I'm sorry you had to go through that!!

[@kitrood319]

When Carl had that convo with his parents he knew he wasn’t going to marry Lindsay. I don’t believe for a second he wanted to make it work at this point, he’s trying to get her to call it off.

[@lesley1346]

Totally agree. The problem he took so long to say the words out loud to her. Lyndsay would have said she was blindsided no matter what. Lyndsay would have gone through with the wedding, gotten pregnant as soon as possible and then broken up. This happening now is way better for both of them

[@LeLaHeathers]

He fumbled and beat around the bush too long 🙄 they never should have gotten back together

[@DanaStewart-n4x]

Agreed 💯

[@jamiechristoffersen1879]

Trauma meeting trauma is trauma ping pong. 🏓

[@devongreaves2495]

Yeah cause he sees her when the mask falls and is like I'm not marrying this narcissist and manipulater

[@marisoljandres4398]

Calling BS on Carl saying he would have embraced her at the end lmao. He came prepared. By the time Lindsay and him talked he had already talked to Kyle hours earlier. The season was over already he had to have said something to production or this never would have been filmed

[@daniellemcintyre5445]

Lindsay behavior all summer had been disgusting and Gabby is as delusional Lindsay. Ok yes girl- get some therapy and learn to love yourself and others! Then teach Lindsay! You're not the victim!

[@brendamartin2952]

He was so void of emotion. He came to end the engagemrnt for sure. Not postpone.

[@G.O.A.TGAMER145]

He had his mind made up because look how she came to the conversation. Dressed to seduce him back in to her web. She’s a narcissist. He had to stand firm and stonewall her (Google the use of stonewall; a tactic for those to survive narcissistic behaviors).

[@vintagesavvy105]

These two brought out the worst in the each other. Sad that they lost their friendship but thank god they didn’t get married and bring children into this drama.

[@kitrood319]

Oof Lindsay, “I don’t know why I proposed to you” was the time to walk sis

[@fizzzzerrrr]

I think it’s hard for people to understand that getting sober kinda takes you back to a childlike place. He’s been covering up everything for years and that’s why it’s strongly recommended that nobody in early sobriety makes any huge life decisions for at least a year or two. I’m not absolving him of responsibility, just trying to add some perspective.

[@saraeemmm]

That’s a very good point actually I hadn’t thought of that

[@katealison6087]

You've said the same sort of thing as I have in my longer comment above. He's not the self assured, emotionally mature man that Lyndsay needs. I think she thought he'd overcome the areas that invited addiction but he hasn't had one successful serious relationship and still doesn't have a normal, stable career in his late 30s. He needs to be with someone who doesn't expect him to support a stay at home situation with children and who has lower expectations overall I think.

[@aluthraebuetse9869]

💯 it’s the exact same thing I kept saying. Cos when you start on the sobriety journey, you are almost rediscovering yourself, you are vulnerable, coupled with the fact that he had just lost his brother to the same addiction. It really was not advisable for him to have started any sort of serious relationship, let alone getting engaged and married. In my opinion the person Lindsay fell for was the Carl pre-sobriety. That Carl was very confident and didn’t take crap from anyone, that Carl masked the real Carl. They are both wrong, they should not have started a relationship at all. Glad that one of them was smart enough to end it before it progressed any further.

[@devongreaves2495]

Carl loved her as a friend but saw her true colors behind the scenes. He is living a more authentic life and realized they were not meant to be and ended it. I don't understand how everyone is hating on him. He did the right thing and it was extremely hard for him. She's twisting it make him a bad guy and her a victim. She should of recognized the truth in his words but she's a narcissist so she can't recognize the truth and humility he is bringing to the situation

[@aluthraebuetse9869]

@@devongreaves2495 I keep telling people you cannot really know someone, until you have lived and shared bed with them..experienced true intimacy, seen them vulnerable, how they react in extreme situations. I think Carl probably hoped she would treat him differently compared to others. Oh well…

[@imani6938]

All the issues that Carl named are legit his issues that he needed to work out with himself

[@Mariahdalylah]

💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@ayomideakinokun5739]

But...Carl was correct then. He can sense how she views him. So...he was correct. He is accurately listing out things that Lindsey (and now Lindsey supporters) think about him.

[@stephaniebrizard8657]

And so does she. She shouldn't have jumped into another relationship after her miscarriage. She doesn't take time to process things and I can see her in therapy forever. Who wants to live like that.

[@napperforlife2020]

Carl is complaining about Lindsay's response when he isn't clear? He's done this to everyone since season 1. I cringed when he said, "More gentle. moremoremore" when she hugged him. My god, I'd dry up so much.

[@sophiagallant3574]

Def got the ick.

[@devongreaves2495]

Lyndsey is diabolical. Carl did the right thing.

[@CarlaOm-et4je]

I Think Lindsay This is very self-absorbed. She talked about his job. She really doesn’t have one. She’s just the influence or just like he is they were earning about the same amount of money, but that wasn’t enough for her. She’s very materialistic. She’s always been kind of bitchy and wanting what she wants always, and her opinion is the only one that matters I’m not saying Carl was a saint, but he put up with a lot. He turned into a different person for her, when he decided to not let her rule everything he did last summer she didn’t like that she wanted to be in charge. It was equal and she kept saying equal. It was in charge in the way, but I think he did the best thing for them both I don’t know. I don’t think she’s ever been a nice person. She’s not cared about her friends. Look what she did with Austin to Sierra and didn’t care of it, I’m just saying she really only cares about herself and has admitted that the best thing happened. I truly believe that.

[@JB-1007]

Carl wanted to end it. Otherwise, why call cameras in? The season had wrapped.

[@goldenniblings]

Jesus took the wheel, thank you jesus

[@canuckcityvan6043]

So Lindsey didn’t spin the truth like she always does

[@maggieyoung8090]

Because she flips every freaking conversation.

[@BerryFlair]

So he’s saying that he was threatening her with calling off the wedding and we’re here because she didn’t fall on bended knees begging him to reconsider? 😂😂😂Wow that’s the definition of toxic

[@lipkin108]

This entire season of summer house was better than season 11 of Vanderpump rules!

[@freneticaesthetica]

Oh my gosh - yes! It was not even a close call 😂 the female friendships on Summer House were everything!

[@Bravadoh]

@@freneticaesthetica those are not female friendships, this is Paige and her minions feeling threatened by lindsay for being a powerhouse and just like many male powerhouses being difficult. Carl wouldn’t call paige in the week but proposed to lindsay. Paige doesn’t understand why people find her more attractive and pushes a narrative that lindsay is underhand and conniving. However i have never heard lindsay say a bad word about paige because she is insignificant but i have heard paige talk relentlessly about Lindsay

[@trillynelson.]

I thought this season was pretty weak tbh…nothing really happened until the last episode

[@connieandes9764]

She was blind not blindsided.

[@kjames0730]

Carl is a man child!

[@marlynnek6449]

And I agree with Carl that Lindsay sees what she wants to see. She kind of does live in a narcissistic alternative universe where she's always right.

[@Lisa-uv7jf]

Correct! Perhaps in the minority but as a female I sympathize more with Carl’s mother than Lindsay. Imagine the terror of potentially having her as the wife to your son and mother to your grandchildren. Lindsay is a nightmare.

[@DanaStewart-n4x]

Yeah Amanda and Kyle sound like true hypocrites.Look how they act! They truly shouldn't be married.

[@queenserena99]

​@@Lisa-uv7jfyou shouldn't sympathize with her, she raised a man-child who doesn't know how to communicate or make good choices... you can't date & engage someone, then claim you dislike everything about their personality and that's on them 😂 it's on HIM for dating & misleading someone you either don't know or don't like & have no intention on working though things

[@riita89]

"this explosion happens on the street, sounded like a gunshot". I had to LOL. The exaggeration combined with Kyle trying not to show his disbelief is comical.

[@wtfrlly]

Let’s just chalk it up to the fact that they were both just so wrong for each other.

[@lonmayersbroadcast]

Wow Lindsay telling someone especially Carl that he has anger issues😂😂😂

[@BGreen-of3hd]

Talking about the cat calling the kettle black!!! She’s got a lot of nerve!!

[@MA1.5]

Dumping her isn’t an ultimate betrayal. It’s Carl standing up for himself

[@sydneylockett8129]

They had a toxic relationship. Someone needed to exit out. I am glad Carl did. Honestly it speaks volumes that Lindsay didn’t want to leave. She thinks toxicity is normal in a relationship and it is an everyday thing. Also I’m sorry Gabby but you are an enabler. Honestly that first weekend when she was questioning his sobriety that was a clear indication of this is an unhealthy toxic relationship. Gabby should have done more but honestly Lindsay probably would have cast her aside the same way she did Danielle last year for speaking out. Carl did both of them a favor.

[@natashakalanda622]

Both are wrong..I'm team no one. Carl is soooo not the victim. He is a master manipulator

[@murasakinomorado7210]

THIS!!🎯🎯🎯💯

[@lindab424]

Sorry but Lindsay has a been a gaslighter and manipulator since season 1. She is the more toxic of the two.

[@ajr3770]

@@lindab424ok Carl.

[@murasakinomorado7210]

@@lindab424 Have you forgotten Season 1 douche Carl?? 🤯 Carl is just better at gaslighting, manipulating and triangulating than Lindsay! Also I think being a guy gets you forgiven faster… honestly Lindsay and Carl are equally as bad….

[@AnyonesWorld_]

@@ajr3770lol this. It’s like no one saw the previous season with Carl is just a pos and treating women horribly, including Lindsay. The only thing that changed was that he stopped the drugs and alcohol. He’s still the same person because he never took the time to be single and be a new version of himself. Lindsay might have been and is a bit delulu, but Carl has been this way. He spent thousands of dollars on a therapist to get over how Kyle treated him at loverboy. Kyle spent a whole season calling him an unreliable coke head. Hello. Carl is a mess, and it shows when he proposed to Lindsay. Delusional is Carl.

[@belindareyes2366]

We've all seen what Lindsey is like ON CAMERA, can y'all imagine what she's like OFF CAMERA? Lol

[@nicky_nicole0806]

💯

[@Nicole38401]

Exactly. Maybe Carl did want the cameras there because she could flip out and attack him or lie and say he did something he didn't. That woman is scary.

[@beaublack1407]

Exactly. She’s absolutely pathological. Glad he escaped.

[@shannonholland3185]

I don't know why they have to play the blame game. Clearly they don't belong together

[@melodynicole7292]

Personally. This doesn't seem like a blindsight to me. Feels like they both communicated their need,wants, and desires with each other they jusy couldnt fufill what the other wanted/needed.

[@youloveanthony]

^this! I thought I was going to pick a side, but I heard them both loud and clear. They just weren't a match romantically...and that's ok. Just sucks that a 7+ year friendship was lost along the way

[@user-qu4th8iw3i]

I think Gabby would make a great friend of addition rather than a main cast member because being Lindsay's support system isn't a storyline. 😒

[@Birdrobin15]

Exactly, she gives nothing

[@amb6955]

Fr the most gabby ever speaks is on the after show and then all she talks about is how she agrees with Lindsay

[@retalbtaylor370]

And her bizarre way of picking men, by astrology!!!!

[@nicolaball3313]

Agreed

[@amandac.2687]

I mean Danielle did that for years..doesn't give main character energy either

[@Brittneyylovee]

“I don’t know why I married you” Lindsay the ending was there TOO. She was blind and Carl was scared. They both thought the other was going to change and neither of them did.

[@lisadgingersnaps9843]

He, in fact, set her up that last day.

[@jemimah1331]

I think he was desperately hoping she would be the one to end it over the summer. Best for the both of them!!

[@tposeinify]

She literally did to Carl what she has done to every other boyfriend she has had on the show. She has emasculated them all until they finally leave her and then she is a victim of her own creation 🤯

[@mirelahilderman8738]

Exactly! I wonder if she knows she has borderline personality disorder… 😢 She must, because she goes to therapy.

[@shashamarie4760]

Disagree 😮. People can't handle strong women. CARL is a 🐈

[@sararay03]

The problem with the career conversation was that Carl had already made up his mind to return to Loveerboy, but he presented it to Lindsay as if it were only a consideration. Hence her having questions & thinking she was helping him to make a decision & those questions felt like an "attack" to him because he didn't want to be questioned or aided in making a decision, he wanted support in the decision he already made. A decision Lindsay didn't know he already made; in that way, he kind of set Lindsay up.

[@Phbalancedshorty]

Bingo!!

[@twanmatthews2229]

They're both to blame. It just comes down to them not being compatible. Lindsay is a very strong woman. Carl is someone who needs a cheerleader AT ALL TIMES. Lindsay was being realistic. Carl was being idealistic and acting very much like a manchild

[@rhiannonh.7463]

Agree! Lindsey needs someone who is in the same level outside the relationship. She needs a very ambition, goal oriented guy who is progressively ahead of the curve in conflict resolution based communication to making more money than she does. Carl needs to just move south, find a southern “kind” woman who is just sweeter than sweet tea & reminds you of the movie “Pleasentville”.

[@BerryFlair]

So she’s to blame because she’s realistic?

[@ajr3770]

Son shes to blame because she didn’t blow smoke up his arse and pander to him?

[@dollymadeson2151]

Carl will never get married. Not ever and he is probs bisexual.

[@LolaJay10]

Carl always says we do this to each other, I’m to blame too, I’m guilty of this too…I’ve literally never heard her say what she does wrong. As far as she’s concerned, she’s a perfect normal girl, who communicates “well”

[@chanellbotshekan]

Lindsay complained NONSTOP about Carl this summer. About how she needed a break from him, she was annoyed by him, he wasn't a real man, he wasn't a real adult, etc. But then when he suggests they have serious problems and arent ready to get married in two months, she's betrayed and blindsided? Carl was the only adult in that room (a flawed adult, don't get me wrong, but an adult nonetheless). I think Lindsay wanted to have a wedding first, and then wanted to worry about having a healthy relationship second, at Carl's expense. And finally Carl stood up to her.

[@PICARDY610]

EXACTLY HOW I SAW IT

[@sh.boogies]

Exactly

[@BerryFlair]

Makes no sense. Married or engaged people disagree a lot. This isn’t about incompatibility. This is about a mama’s boy who wants to be coddled and praised all the time. That’s not reality because we’re all flawed. Kyle and Amanda argued all the time and had it worse than this. Perhaps they should have called it quits too. Even now in marriage, Amanda consistently expresses when she’s upset with Kyle. She even allows her friends to gang up on him to set him straight lol. Carl could never handle marriage or long term commitment.

[@Areyoutalkingtome781]

Exactly she Needs professional help right after they broke up she went with another guy to girls desperate

[@ohnohedidnt4444]

Bingo

[@vafranklin22]

Lindsay must have grown up around so much toxic behavior that she thinks the way she speaks to people is perfectly normal. It's so sad, but the one thing I can give her credit for is that Carl knew her for 8 years and she's never been anyone but herself. However, he's grown and changed and softened and that's what he needs in his life now. He doesn't match or mesh with her energy anymore and I'm glad they can both be free of a relationship that didn't benefit either of them

[@BwInNewJersey]

Anything but a blindside. The fake tears at the end tells us everything.

[@brittschmidt9835]

Look they both weren't each other's person. But I don't feel she was that blindsided I think she's been trying to make him the villain this whole season. It seems he's tried to communicate the best way he could even though he sucks at it but she had to of known they were done.

[@sarcasm176]

They aren’t hearing each other

[@brittschmidt9835]

ALSO SHE IS SAYING HE HAS ANGER ISSUES BUT SHE KIND OF DOES TOO LIKE SHE ACCUSED HIM OF BEING ON DRUGS WTF

[@toppop7613]

He is doing drugs.

[@ridiculousnessreigns8018]

Idk if he is, but she definitely usually seems like she’s on something. She even sounds drunk af during these interviews

[@alliebell2474]

He admitted to smoking pot, he just replaced alcohol with pot and you can buy all strengths.

[@brittschmidt9835]

Okay it's not just pot he used to be "cocaine Carl" take that for what you want. But she wasn't implying pot she was implying something else and she knew it but then doubled down with saying pot.

[@maggieyoung8090]

⁠exactly. As soon as Gabby & others pushed back on her accusations. Don’t forget those accusations she threw out there on CAMERA, while she was DRUNK! 🤨

[@bebaBad]

The break up is no one’s fault. They are very different people. Carl clearly struggles with confrontation. Lindsey struggles with empathy. But how Carl handled the whole summer was dirty. He wanted to break up since May of that year and didn’t know how to do it.

[@karleet]

Gabby should have just been on Lindsay’s lap during these interviews.

[@daniellachampoux]

😂

[@ohnohedidnt4444]

Lol

[@Birdrobin15]

It's so embarrassing. But I get why they are friends

[@centac8861]

Ok that’s adorable 😂

[@EmilyKing-qo8zl]

What?

[@HokieKittens]

Carl is the only one accepting any responsibility. Lindsay NEVER apologizes or accepts that she contributes to the dynamic. Until she can be introspective and vulnerable she won't have healthy relationships.

[@therealhouseofpop729]

Not at all. All he does is criticize Lindsay. Are we watching the same show. Let me guess you’re married and your husband gaslights you

[@xPooogle515]

@@therealhouseofpop729 he’s trying to communicate how he feels to his partner and her response is always to look at him like he is crazy. Lindsey lost respect for Carl and feels like she is justified in talking down to him because of his situation and Carl is hurt by her acting like this towards him. I can’t imagine if the genders were reversed that women would appreciate their partner always shutting down their feelings while you’re busy working hard trying to come together, it gets old. And no one wants to feel like they are being parented in a relationship. Way to demonize someone for falling off. Is breaking down your partner’s self esteem every week ever going to result in a more stable, confident man? No…

[@HokieKittens]

@@therealhouseofpop729 do you usually insult people who have different opinions than you?

[@keirybreedy8791]

Carl was right to end it. Lindsay was in denial, they were not good. They don't have tools to fix it. They were not equally yoked.

[@sweetstrawberry2470]

history shows us all that linsey is the one with anger issues .. in every single relationship she has been the same toxic loudmouth person .. and a doorknob... next victim in 3.2.1...

[@MsDigga74]

This is the comment I was looking for. Historically, if I'm not mistaken wasn't this the same issue with her ex from season 1?

[@linlee5162]

Tru that…where’s my sandwich?

[@ohnohedidnt4444]

Haha this is dead on...

[@charlettaleviege4568]

Glad someone finally feels the same way, she has been the toxic one in all of her relationships that we've seen

[@lahola3265]

You’re not the victim , Carl

[@Justme0288]

Neither is Lindsey.

[@fififirestone3787]

He's not saying he's a victim. He recognized that the relationship dynamics were toxic and that she would never meet his needs emotionally. He was smart to get out.

[@rachelfan121]

Neither is lindsay

[@sheakiely6401]

I’m still more team Carl Lindsay has a very aggressive way of communicating and can never be wrong

[@Justme0288]

I think that Lindsey is very good at paying attention when people are watching and manipulates when she can. I absolutely believe that. When Carl says she says mean crap to him and text him and she records him trying to catch him so she can blast him, I believe that. She is conniving.

[@TitaniumTectonic]

Carl yells on camera, so I know he yells off camera. Please stop putting on a front like you're so zen.

[@Alex-mx6mu]

This

[@calmtea5369]

Notice that he takes accountability repeatedly and doesn’t blame her. All she does is blame him and takes zero accountability.

[@nicky_nicole0806]

Zero responsibility. Ever

[@rosa61217]

He does not hahaha

[@AbsolutAlim]

Gabby and Kyle’s facial reaction speak volumes!

[@jeanhenderson1277]

How can Lynsey and gabby sit there saying she needed time out from Carl surly if you need that much time away then that alone should show you’re not ready for marriage. Gabby please stop agreeing with everything Lindsey says

[@melhindby5616]

It is sad that your relationship didn’t work but it’s better to know now instead of filing for divorce months later. Instead of the blame game learn from it grieve it but then move forward. Good luck to both of you and I pray you both find your person.

[@alexanderexarchos9210]

Carl dodged a HUGE BULLIT....

[@ohnohedidnt4444]

More like a cannonball lol

[@maryjacobsen6539]

I like that one!🤣

[@jackoenyegue]

Seeing how Lindsay is portrayed, Carl is absoltely right to record. She seems the type to make him catch a case out of pettiness!! We have seen Lindsay scream and shout for years.. so why would it be different now?

[@pinkfoxycake]

Then why ask her 2 get married 2 him in the first place, if he was so unsure about her and their relationship🤷 It's like he was looking for things with Lindsey 2 pick on so he could dump her.

[@rhiannonh.7463]

He’s a self sabotaging person addicted to the love high. He goes from an alcohol addiction to a love addiction. That’s why in AA they say do not get into ANY romantic relationship till you’ve been fully sober for one year for this very reason. Carl hadn’t been a year sober when him & Lindsey got together in the fall of 2022.

[@PICARDY610]

THE MOST MANLY THING CARL DID WAS LEAVE THE TOXIC RELATIONSHIP. LINDSEY NEEDS THERAPY

[@travelbug4536]

Lindsay is NPD. It will just make her even more manipulative.

[@nameless.faceless.]

Carl is 100% toxic too and he’s for sure playing off of the fact that she gets activated.. but he does too! It seems like he’s better at hiding it now that he’s sober. Being sober doesn’t take it away though..

[@suzannequinlan1129]

It cost Carl about $200 THOUSAND to get out of that engagement and CLEARLY he preferred PAYING instead of STAYING 💥

[@T--Sky]

Lindsay was trying. Carl was talking to everyone except Lindsay - he doesn't know how to communicate. He should have broken off the engagement with Lindsay in private and then they can make the decision to announce it together.. with no one being embarrassed. The way he chose to do it was unnecessarily cruel to her, and very selfish....he was only concerned about himself. 🤮🤮🤮

[@iloveyouuuu135]

Lindsay seems to think she won’t have to change for the other person in marriage, and it’s the exact reason she shouldn’t be married. She has zero idea of the work it takes to be in that type of partnership, despite thinking she does.

[@nicky_nicole0806]

Facts

[@cocogemini6623]

Carl is a weird guy with major issues. He hates uncomfortable conversations and commitment.

[@fizzzzerrrr]

He is fairly newly sober!!! Substance abuse disorder is a major disorder. It’s not an excuse ~ he should never have asked her to marry him and must take responsibility for everything that’s ensued, but Lindsay’s victim mentality is exhausting and pretty impossible to be on the other end of in a relationship

[@marlynnek6449]

I think he tries and she just always shuts him down. They've been in couples therapy for Pete's sake and they're not even married! I just think she's a really hard person to deal with.

[@diaryofamadblackfemcel2094]

@@marlynnek6449it’s recommended for engaged couples to get couple therapy bc the transition from dating to engaged to married is fast and harsh

[@diaryofamadblackfemcel2094]

@@marlynnek6449and they clearly needed couples therapy, now it’s tragic but at least. they aren’t stuck in an unhappy marriage

[@lrivera31]

Give him some credit. Becoming sober is not easy. And being around someone who is toxic is not helping.

[@SNOW.STORM30]

Lindsay has a seriously combative personality, I genuinely can't imagine anyone making it work with her. She looks like she would pick a fight with anyone over anything given enough time.

[@daniellachampoux]

I have never seen such a pure representation of NARCISSISM in my life. Both covert and extrovert. Lindsey needs help! Playing the victim even though she's created every situation. The crying with no tears, blame shifting, triangulation, gaslighting. She knows it's been filmed and still claims to be the victim. No shame! She's sick. You dodged a bullet Carl

[@marlynnek6449]

Thank you!

[@katem942]

100%

[@nicky_nicole0806]

💯

[@melissaholder4231]

You dont have access to my emotions anymore....i will share my emotions with someone else.....WHATttttttttttttttt.😂😂😂😂😂

[@BHBM888]

LOL as Lindsay is crying with absolutely no tears haha

[@tx_1]

He is such a liar and Kyle knows it too.

[@Lacamina5]

Was just thinking that

[@liv6531]

Yes, have been picking up on these after shows that Kyle isn’t really buying it.

[@medaherf9462]

Yeah we’re not buying it Carl

[@kloatlanta]

Why do we care though?

[@CJ-pr5np]

He saved himself from misery with that person

[@dsavvy5718]

Best thing for both of them. Carl saved them a lifetime of unhappiness. I don't understand the people who said he didn't communicate. They both had a lot to say that was toxic. How about THIS episode IS the communication that was needed the most. And for the ppl who thinks it was late, a year from now would have been too late, a year ago would have also been too late for you. Better late than never! Lol

[@JaneAndrews-l2s]

It’s always hard to listen to Lindsey exaggerate and never admits to any faults Team Carl

[@BerryFlair]

What fault should she be admitting to? That she wanted him to get a job? Or that she had reservations about him going back to a job that he cried over and left the previous year? What fault is she admitting to? Really curious

[@Birdrobin15]

Team Carl. Still love lindsey, but she needs to heal her inner child. Her trauma spills out on people too often

[@xPooogle515]

@@BerryFlair the way she speaks to her partner to his face and to others, emasculating and denigrating him and his life. You don’t build a man up, any man, by tearing him down to his studs.

[@BerryFlair]

@@xPooogle515 emasculating and denigrating. Fair. Examples, please?

[@xPooogle515]

@@BerryFlair every conversation this season is an example. Literally every one of them. Questioning him interrogation-style about his sobriety, the things she’s said to the girls about their arguments, her telling Carl to his face that he’s not crushing life and acting like he didn’t understand it takes money to support a family or that he doesn’t want to succeed, like she has to create the desire to succeed in him…Lindsey trying to backdoor Carl’s compensation plan, acting like Carl is less of a man for being actually blindsided by her Stay at Home Mom threat, Carl’s constant efforts to try to come together this season and be HEARD by his woman only to be told, “sorry, that’s not me” “you’re expecting too much” when all he was asking for is to feel like she was on his team. Picking apart his life and choices every week while sitting back expectantly waiting for him to bring your ideal life to your feet, shutting down anything that you view as not good enough…is an interesting method of attracting a man.

[@vickiefrisbie1000]

He did not break up with her. He said I am not ready to marry you in 2 1/2 months. She thought that meant no wedding. It never even occurred to her to postpone the wedding for months or however, long it took for them to work through their situation. He did them both a huge favor. If I’m not ready equals, I don’t want to marry you then he could have said I don’t wanna marry you. Her narcissism prevented her from any empathy or understanding or compromise or communication for that matter.

[@aluthraebuetse9869]

I thought so as well. Everytime he expressed doubts her response was always, so you are calling off the wedding. Even when Paige was advising that they didn’t need to marry in 2months, her response was so we should call off the wedding. Lindsay did not want to postpone that wedding. I honestly don’t understand why she thought their fights and arguments were normal for relationships. It was absolutely not normal. I wish them both the very best!!

[@fzrms7954]

Carl seems like he would be hyper critical and exhausting to be around. He seems to pick fights and then play victim. There's a coldness and emotional unavailability about him. Lindsay dodged a bullet.

[@bernicehoggsfav]

So funny (and disturbing) listening to Lindsey recount their exchanges as if she were an angel.

[@alliskelton7495]

You can tell she’s drunk in this recording. I don’t think she’ll find a man who commmunicates better than Carl. He’s living in reality and knows how to present his thoughts with a bow on top. Lindsey has real issues and ppl who are humoring her are not helping her. If ppl cared about her they would say you are the problem and you’re disconnected from reality.

[@KylesMullet]

Gabby is the new Danielle and it is hard to watch. Team Carl.

[@hollydale3943]

Carl uses active voice for Lindsay but then “something happens” “it escalates” etc. he is such a liar & gaslighter

[@Alex-mx6mu]

CARL IS SO MANIPULATIVE WTF WAS HE SAYING AT THE END IS CRAZZZZZZY

[@heathermorse2018]

I feel so bad for Lindsay, I think she is authentic

[@3453453fdb]

I don’t get why she is upset. He said he needed something from her and she said no. So he was like ok I need to leave. They seem horrible for each other.

[@jakeosborne6766]

Carl is a spoiled person and Kyle interferes in Carl’s & Lindsay relationship

[@lovelyh1796]

I feel like Kyle and Amanda didn’t want them together

[@monikamaszkowska1186]

You dodged a bullet Carl.

[@mzzthang3912]

Gabby is so infuriating we dont need another Lindsay yes man Danielle was already a lot for us to deal with

[@mioa.5429]

Lindsey is a typical narcissist! She’s always the victim and loves to gaslight Carl. He dodged a bullet.

[@brendamartin2952]

He did not come looking to postpone. Especially with that smirk on his face.

[@KatrinaGarrison-m9e]

She was delusional and desperate to get married and have kids . A blind man could see they were toxic, forcing a bad relationship is insane . Thank God he did the right thing .

[@sayitaintsl0w]

He probably had the cameras for insurance. She didn’t seem surprised or upset. She didn’t cry. If anything I feel she was telling Carl to F off all summer, especially in the last two shows when she wouldn’t be in the car with him. I don’t think she wanted to be married but also wanted him to be the one to say it. Again, victim. I only see crocodile tears. Gabby, you haven’t been here long enough to know the dynamics of their relationship like everyone else.

[@Almosthalloween4moredays]

Omg the absolute lack of any real tear is crazy

[@stephaniebrizard8657]

Cameras don't lie. The perception of the other...it was evident they weren't meant to be. When they came in before last summer dating, I wasn't happy because they weren't compatible. I think he wanted to start a family and proposed and then realized it wasn't a good idea, and she didn't help. They both dodged bullets; despite all the money lost, better than a divorce.

[@elliotresnick5433]

Amazing how polarizing this has become even when most of this is on video. Clearly one of the tipping point is when Lindsey was seen accusing Carl of relapsing while she was intoxicated. It’s insulting listening to Lindsay claim she was blindsided and seeing some of her cast members enabling her unhinged behavior…maybe the Producers are behind this???

[@Janet-Martin]

Carl did relapse and admitted it on the show!!! Carl isn't sober, when you're smoking weed all day long everyday. Lindsay even said Carl how much weed have you smoked today because when you smoke to much and Carl said not that much but Lindsay explained saying Carl you always want to pick fights with me and other's which was exactly what he was doing at the Beach Bar and Lindsey said forget it let's go home but Carl started again in the Uber and the next morning Carl apologized to Lindsay for his behavior!! Carl said he started smoking weed again everyday to take the edge off, the edge off what having the best year of his life mot working and having fun because Carl didn't want to work !! Carl is 40 years old and I personally don't know any man that doesn't have a good job, his retirement plan in place, and Carl doesn't have shit because he expected Lindsay to take care of him !! Carl isn't a man he is a baby that has his mommy and step daddy fooled into thinking he out trying to get a job everyday when in all reality he was having fun getting high everyday !!!

[@elliotresnick5433]

@@Janet-Martin Like I said this has become another polarizing issue out there. You make a compelling argument though.

[@Janet-Martin]

@@elliotresnick5433 👍👍

[@elliotresnick5433]

Bravo has a huge problem with that program now, left without any compelling story line plus the cast is too old.

[@daniellemcintyre5445]

Lindsay is not blind sided, she's just delusional and Gabby is not a good sounding board either she is just as bad!

[@nicky_nicole0806]

Exactly and I wouldn't be surprised if those are the types of people Lindsay keeps around her so she doesn't have to look at herself and take accountability. We see what happened whenever anyone challenged her over the course of the show

[@petet968]

Gabbie is the new Danielle. She has drunk the Lindsay Kool-aid. How does Lindsay do it?

[@LolaJay10]

Her desperation to be married is above all and be all. She’s a terrible communicator, she has belittled the man every time he brings up a conversation, I’ve watched him be talking in a calm manner and she will say “why are you yelling” and he’ll literally say I’m not yelling. Maybe that’s editing, but she literally did this with Ciara, Paige like she lives in her own world. Don’t be so desperate to be married and maybe you can work on having a better character cus it sucks right now. N her fans seem to want her to be married desperately too, so they don’t see her behaviour either.

[@nadjahaywood8883]

Lindsay is literally incapable of listening to anyone in a relationship besides herself. Look at past friendships relationships EVERYTHING. She will alllllways be the victim. It’s sad that he called the wedding off but maybe he wouldn’t have if you would’ve listened babe :( her behavior this whole summer was soooo awful to him and I personally believe a lot of it was to do with the alcohol.

[@MissPerriwinkle]

delighted that carl does not have to put up with her creepyness...her voice : arrgghhhhh !

[@travelbug4536]

Classic codependent and narcissist dynamics. Carl dodged a bullet.

[@Birdrobin15]

💯 text book.

[@lkay1664]

THE CRYING WITHOUT ANY TEARS pls girl

[@nicky_nicole0806]

Exactly. Every time 😂

[@Dani-ji4rw]

Anyone that explains a story bit by bit like Carl is it's a narcissist trying to make the other person look bad. He's been trying to escape for a year

[@Justme0288]

You think Carl is a narcissist and not Lindsey? That term get thrown around so much and people actually think they know what they are talking about lol. Carl isn’t a narcissist. Carl may have problems communicating but certainly not narcissistic

[@BerryFlair]

Honestly, Carl scares me. Gives me major Jekyll and Hyde vibes.

[@Janet-Martin]

​@@BerryFlairExactly !!! 👹

[@traceysmith8231]

He's a wimp

[@Tquin55]

He had the guts to end it before getting married. That takes a lot of bravery.

[@MyBeautifulHealth]

It wasn’t brave to wait until the very last minute when he knew long before then that he didn’t want to go through with it.

[@Tquin55]

I think he was hoping things would get better. None of us know when either of them knew it was over.

[@kloatlanta]

A wimp would have packed up and left without a conversation or explanation

[@clvsq]

I know they’re filming a show but they’re so focused on who’s right versus actually resolving the issues that they’re not listening to each other

[@bjarczyk]

Notice that Carl acknowledges the areas he needs to continue to grow and learn from. Lindsay doesn’t take any accountability and constantly plays the victim.

[@BonnieEwert]

The “pecking pole”, the order of dominance…… Ever watch chickens….pecking the back end out of others……that’s Lyndsey. Sadly Carl isn’t as forward as he should be. I think what did for me was when Lyndsey was accusing him of drinking and doing drugs. Constantly gaslighting him. It’s definitely for the best they ended it.

[@Janet-Martin]

Carl IS NOT SOBER !!!!

[@Janet-Martin]

Carl IS NOT SOBER !!!

[@prima-madalina]

Oh wow Carl recording their conversation was really triggering.... clearly Lindsey was just saying she wished she had a recording as a way to express that no one would believe he spoke like that otherwise-- she didn't actually do it. Carl says himself that Lindsey expressed that "she SHOULD record him"... he never says she actually recorded him and he knows she did not. Even Kyle is looking at him funny there. It's common for people who feel gaslighted to wish they had recorded things.

[@mtanjuaquio858]

If for anything Carl took courage just to end it. It was just not good relationship, period.

[@milaineastride8770]

That recording on the phone story sound like they are the « light » version of Amber Heard and Johnny Depp

[@lebronjohnson6735]

Aquamaaaaan

[@resurrection5]

Both of them aren't telling the whole truth but Lindsay is really laying this on thick.

[@peach1681]

No grown woman will ever want a serious relationship with someone that acts the way Carl is acting, only girls that want to have fun