Carmelite Monks of Wyoming Scandal - Revisited

[@annahamerl4298]

Thank you so much for making this video. My brother is a monk there and it’s hard to hear people spreading rumors about them. All the monks are like family to me.

[@rothschildianum]

It is often hard to learn the truth! What made you believe that your brother doesn't do any of what the guy said in the CM documentary? You need to be open minded. Knowing that 70-80% of Catholic priests are gay, I won't be surprised if the accusations made by that guy is real.

[@ryanhilliard1620]

I have to tell you, I was fully on the side of the monks until I read the full report. I don't think there is a problem with most of the monks, but the Prior and the Novice Master seem to have SERIOUS problems! I encourage you to read it because from the report, families are being kept in the dark about the problems going on there.

[@chrissie9100]

@@rothschildianum Excellent comment 👍 👍 👍 you're 🌕☀️🌟⭐️🌞☀️🔥🌟🌟🌟

[@jhssuthrnmama]

Have there been any updates from the bishop in the last yera? I'm waiting to resume my annual giving until I hear confirmation that the monks are actually praying the Divine Office daily, etc.

[@ConnieRossini]

Thank you for this venture! I didn't know you had discerned out. You have been on our prayer list. I pray that God leads you to your true vocation.

[@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162]

Thank you so much!

[@TheresaMedjugorje]

Thank you for your honesty. You did a fantastic job despite your nerves!! ❤❤❤🙏🔥🙏🔥❤❤❤

[@davidthehermit7813]

unfortunately we live in a time when the church is inundated with sandal, and people have become hyper sensative to scandal, and therefore there is an underlying presupposition within the conscience of many that there is scandal everywhere; even when there is no scandal we automatically assume there is scandal. There are two examples of love between men in the Bible I'm thinking of: 1) Jesus and His apostles: 2) King David and Saul's son Jonathan. In our over sexualy saturaied society, we have lost the ability to discern true love from sexual lust, May God have mercy on us all.

[@dominicfarrell6346]

Well done Sir, this is good to get out to people. You are doing a great service to the Carmelite community. God bless!

[@rothschildianum]

I will have no confidence in this guy until he is dare to be on camera and debate Voris. If he is truthful, Voris will not be able to refute this guy.

[@bernitacenteno1326]

@@rothschildianum Who please, tell u, is Voris, whom you want this young man to debate before you will to believe in him ? I have no idea who Voris is. We have to take time to observe a persons actions and their character in order to believe in them. Words alone often deceive us deeply.

[@rothschildianum]

@@bernitacenteno1326 Sorry, I really cannot understand your writing. I cannot even guess what your message is. Could you please edit your reply?

[@bernitacenteno1326]

@@rothschildianum I was referring to another persons reply, when they referred to someone named Voris. Who is Voris I asked. That's all. Sorry.

[@rothschildianum]

@@bernitacenteno1326 Voris is Mike Voris, the head of Church Militant. He published a documentary about an ex-novice of this Carmelite monk.

[@ceebee23]

The problem is no matter the truth mud will stick and that is tragic indeed. A community devoted to God is damaged by rumour and accusations but no real proof as far as I can see and I witness in your commentary, Tyler, truth and the hand of the Lord.

[@johnmcguire4635]

Two questions: 1. Does the truth matter to you personally? 2. Have you seen the testimony and supporting evidence? Praying for your journey!

[@ricksavaiano5640]

Please communicated this to Church Militant. While I often listen to Church Militant and appreciate the work they do, I just couldn't believe their story about these Carmelite monks.

[@carecc7191]

You "just couldn't believe" because you didn't want to. The Novus Ordo seminaries are stuffed with sodomites and have been for decades. In the 90's, the Catholic priesthood became known as a "gay profession". Three books were written around the time of the HUGE sodomite priest scandal in Boston, 2002. I suggest you read one: "The Rite of Sodomy", "The Lavender Mafia" and "Goodbye, Good Men". They were written by faithful, lay Catholics.

[@dorasnop7771]

so you know that Vortex guy is homosexual himself (he admitted ,claiming to be "cured")Usually that kind a people project their weakness an othes

[@BKJorgeRoque]

CM has an obsession with seeing homosexuals everywhere. I wonder why?

[@deborahvrtis4428]

I used to enjoy CM until I began to realize how negative their videos are. Their investigations are poor if they even bother to try. They jump on the secular news stories on Catholic issues/people & just run with that without any work to find truth. Stay away from their poison ☠️

[@albertsmyth9616]

God bless you for making this video refuting such wicked calumnies against the Carmelites of Wyoming. I pray God richly rewards you with many graces for speaking out.

[@eagleofthesacredheart3170]

Church Militant told the truth.

[@albertsmyth9616]

@@eagleofthesacredheart3170 Church Militant told lies, lies, nothing but lies and the liar will answer to God for it.

[@eagleofthesacredheart3170]

@@albertsmyth9616 no you're lying and if you keep on you'll be the one who should be worried about what you'll have to answer to God for.

[@rothschildianum]

Call Voris and refute his accusations! You should not be afraid to do so if you are truthful!

[@eagleofthesacredheart3170]

@@rothschildianum they know he's got plenty of evidence otherwise he wouldn't have reported. If what was reported was false why won't they litigate?

[@matthewgreenrod365]

Good stuff mate, always speak the truth...God bless from Australia

[@dorasnop7771]

Accuser was only 4 weeks there-seems like set up, he was probably paid for this

[@ryanscottlogan8459]

Pope Francis henchmen are behind this 100%

[@dorasnop7771]

@@ryanscottlogan8459 Cardinal Pell after auditing Vaticans bank was falsely accused and sentenced for sexual abuse,Accuser testify in court,In the end truth came out Pope didnt like Carmelites Sisters -they stand up to him

[@hyacinth120]

Jesus came here to Earth and I assume that he's hugging his disciples and telling his disciple "I Love You" in several ways. It's the people that put wrong and malicious meaning to it. New subscriber here from Manila, Philippines. Cheers and continue to be blessed.

[@XavierIsraelMatamoros]

Yes. The young one, our Lord's favorite disciple, John, placed his head on the Lord's breast. Filial love, not homo.

[@richardbenitez1282]

The newspaper church militant shut down because they were fined &500k by courts for defaming and mischaracterizing a parish priest. Church militant apologized for lies on parish priest. This sort of journalism was frequent with this newsletter as I remember. I remember I was very disappointed that EWTN did not expose untruths and agenda of church militant editor Michael Voris.

[@dorasnop7771]

Vortex guy is homosexual himself (he admitted and claimed that he is cure) Usually that kind a people projecting their own weakness on others) Like his baldness ,he couldn't cured his homosexuality...

[@carolynkimberly4021]

I watch the monks' videos, building their breathtaking monastery. I thank Our Lord for sending us a few good men in this time of darkness in the Church. Thank you for sharing a little bit of the spiritual life of these men. I'm sorry that you didn't stay. How about the FSSP seminary in Lincoln?

[@petermuller3530]

Die Piusbruderschaft wird ihn gebrauchen können.

[@siritachi1137]

So I'm trying to analyse your body language signals and it all looks truthful and organic to me :)

[@johannesnicolaas]

So many novices, and all denying scandals.... a bit strange. I am quite a bit suspicious...

[@jamesnally8586]

It is heartening to hear this testimony against the calumny nurtured by Church Militant website. God reward the men who are attempting to put to rest these groundless accusations. To observe such men who attempted without success to live the charism at the Wyoming Carmel but remain appreciative of their lives there in community is indeed edifying. Let us pray that these guys will indeed find their place in God's service according to His will.

[@johnmcguire4635]

None of the accusations and probably none of the insinuations are groundless, but what is groundless ironically is trying to say that they are

[@jamesnally8586]

@@johnmcguire4635 The testimony of those who have lived there says otherwise, as does the experience of anyone who has lived adult existence and has experience in monastic life. When there is immoral conduct going on its nature comes to light rather quickly. Augustine is obviously a good but fragile young man. His behavior and that of Christine Niles bespeak a sort of hysteria. And then, there is the obsession Church Militant has with homosexuality -- nurtured it would appear by Michael Voris ambiguous nature on the issue. It would seem to be a case of "...you protest too much." Have you seen the other testimonies on this issue from other men formally in monastic formation at the Wyoming Carmel?

[@dorasnop7771]

Vortex guy is homosexual himself ,projecting on others...shame on him

[@johnmcguire4635]

@@dorasnop7771 You can argue that he's drawing on his own nature for some of his investigative leads ("projecting"). You can't argue that he's making any of this up. It's important neither to love nor to hate the journalist but merely to make one's peace with the truth of the matter which well doesn't care how you feel.

[@johnmcguire4635]

@@jamesnally8586 I'm watching all videos on both channels. I haven't judged anyone and I never will. This is a fascinating story. I have a short list of notes on this. I'll probably drop that list onto their next pandering video when and if the upload one. My goal is not to be part of a witch hunt but to do God's work of renewing minds. It's my vocation, and it's what I love!

[@irishman5562]

Be strong in your faith! We know there are always wolves in sheep's clothing especially in Holy Mother church. Speak truth and God will guide you. Totus Tuus

[@annsantonino9103]

I don’t find myself watching the CM either. Don’t know why. It just happened. The last time I know, they provide credible journalism. Too bad this happens. It’s hard to be accused of something you didn’t do. God help us. Help us find the truth.

[@kathyg.5742]

Yeah, same here. Stopped watching CM a while ago. Got too negative about everything for me.

[@angelafoster5071]

I saw the church militant video. The guy was clearly not cut out for it.

[@timfronimos459]

They should be sued for libel. Once was a fan of CM but only on occasion. When the went on an anti SPPX rant I stopped watching that channel. I am not a SSPX follower but attended their chapel pre 1988. Abp LeFebvre had a saintly presence about him.

[@lydiabrockmeyer1160]

God bless you.

[@jacknicholasny]

Monks don’t shower together like you said. The stricter disciplines don’t allow showering more than once a week and that’s always in private with no one else around. The Carthusians for example use very cold showers and you’re in and out as fast as possible. The Cistercians are similar but the water is warmer these days at least. I’m guessing Carmelites are more like Carthusians, icy cold water. There is nothing going on there but cleaning up quickly.

[@br.anthonyhamilton2286]

Thank you...

[@eagleofthesacredheart3170]

Hey Tyler How do you spell your last name?

[@TonyOmila7x]

AMEN.

[@rothschildianum]

I do not believe this. CM has shown many times that they are a truthful Catholic Organization. I have been following them for years and observed them carefully.

[@anthonyhulse1248]

CM are very loose with the truth. I do not trust 80% of what Voris says.

[@rothschildianum]

@@anthonyhulse1248 Can you enlighten me with the examples of Voris' lies? There must be abundant if you said 80% of what he said were lies.

[@br.j9145]

I think they are truthful, but I think it may be possible that they received incorrect information. Both they and this guy say that they will bring more witnesses - that may clarify things one way or the other.

[@rothschildianum]

@@br.j9145 It is not convincing. Sue Voris if he was spewing untruth accusations. It will stop Voris. Until then, I take these ex-novices just talk, talk is cheap!

[@br.j9145]

@@rothschildianum I hope we never get to the point of suing. Besides St. Paul's words about bringing in outside legal judgement for something this small that can be handled within the Church (Sadly, religious orders are quite used to similar accusations both true and false), letting truth come out will be far more powerful for the Church as a whole. Having spoke to Voris personally a couple times and watching CM regularly, I have no doubt that if he did say anything incorrect, he will gladly clear that up on his show - and if all the information is correct, he has done a great service for the Church and the world (as he has so often before).

[@salvadorseekatzrisquez2947]

Tyler, Thanks for sharing - I just subscribed to this channel! is this how his last name is spelled? Knickerman

[@DCLayclerk]

Society's acceptance of homosexuality has unfortunately led to a perhaps unintended negative consequence, which is that society now views any kind of affection expressed between men as being sexual and erotic. What a pity that is. Men need to be able to have close male relationships without people whispering about them being romantic or sexual. Historically, western societies have embraced the notion of male friendship and bonding and it's a pity that tradition is being all but ignored.

[@Aquinas40]

This is not about Homosexuality, it is about human sexuality and adhering to the vows you make on Chasity, Poverty, and Obedience. If you cannot keep your vows then religious life is not for you.

[@davechristensen8299]

I watched the accusatory video. Here are the comments that I posted under it: I had a friend who died in his 30's from stress. He had been molested by his priest as a boy and lived with non-stop trauma and stress. So, as a non-Catholic, when this video popped up I thought, "I wonder what is going on in the Catholic Church". I don't know what to think. I take a strong stand against any inappropriate sexual behavior, especially child abuse. However, I really didn't see any credible accusations in this story. It seemed more like the story of a young man who was not ready for a life among men, and was intimidated by everything. And it seemed like the news media jumped in and created a sensational witch hunt. The video kept flashing suggestive photographs in the background, planting suggestions in the mind that tantalizing things might have been happening. I call that dirty "reporting". I have seen many religious organizations unjustly destroyed by scandal and slander in my life. It is easy to over-blow situations and destroy a good group. There was a complaint that the men were supposed to spend some time working out in the gym, building themselves up. Well, any responsible organization is going to make sure that they keep their bodies healthy. It is good for health, for the mind, for hormones, the immune system and to avoid depression. And it is normal for guys to affirm each other as they grow strong and healthy. Most fathers start asking their sons to show them their arm muscles at age two. It builds the guys confidence and identity as a man. This is what normal guys do. I don't understand the complaint. I am wondering if some of the guys coming in were kind of frail, and the brothers weren't just trying to help them man-up? You don't want to be in a community of anemic wimps who come there for a refuge to hide their insecurities, and continue to live with their insecurities. How can you pray for the world if you are a timid introvert? I was troubled to hear Augustine say, "It was strange and DISGUSTING that the men showered together" after work. Flashing red lights and blaring alarms when off when I heard that. 99% of the men in the world would cringe at his righteous repulsion. Is his bodily "sanctity" that frail? He would have never endured high school sports let alone Army boot camp. MAKING MEN: After WW1 it was realized that many boys raised in churches did not come home from the wars. Church had become too much of a refuge for the tenderhearted, and Christian boys died overseas. As a result, they developed the YMCA to introduce Christian boys into competitive athletics. One thing they did was instituted naked swimming. Why? Because teasing is rampant in the puberty years, and many men's self-images are wounded, for life. They need to get over it. The responsible generation of adult men need to insure that their sons are not emotional cripples. The solution was to have the guys grow up seeing that everyone is different and not being so sensitive about it. Start acceptance at a young age and avoid becoming emotionally cripple men. The captain of the soccer team does not have any specific kind of body. He is the guy who walks proud and confident in his manhood in the gang showers no matter what body type he got. The guy who hides in the corner terrified that someone will see him drastically needs to get over it. If he carries his emotional wounds from boyhood teasing all his life, he may become a secretive spiritual cripple. (Maybe become a predator. Predators are not strong confident men.) Boys do tease. But when we grow up we are all teammates, and we honor each other as equals no matter what genetics we got. The brothers need to assure the insecure one that he is just as good as anyone else. This is normal supportive male-bonding. Men know how to heal each other if you let them. I think the staff was just trying to help the guys become psychologically healthy men. I'm sorry that the thought of men showering together was so traumatic for Augustin. Don't you think Jesus and his disciples bathed and dressed together? They didn't have port-a-potties stationed strategically along their long walks across the desert. Privacy is only possible in a pampered society. Maybe the guys should have to go into the army before trying to live in a spiritual community of men and get over their excessive sensitivity. Then you wouldn't have somebody so traumatized that he has a terrible experience doing what men do all over the world. There was a complaint that a guy was hanging out in his room in his shorts. Oh, Mommy and Daddy, come rescue me from this! At Boot Camp we hung out in our jockstraps. If Augustin didn't like this, he really wouldn't have liked Army Boot Camp. I didn't like the idea of the guy choking him. There is no excuse for that. You shouldn't have to live in terror. You can talk things out. But, I have to wonder what kind of comments Augustin made that pushed him to his limit? I think his complaints in the video make that clear. I did not hear anyone complain that someone was staring at them, giving them an "icky" feeling. It can feel creepy if someone ogles you like he wants to "play".😜 That could destroy the brotherly closeness. If there was a complaint about that, I would honor that complaint. Augustine was very uncomfortable with Fr. Mary. I wasn't there to see if Fr. Mary was "cruzing" him, or if Augustine just read him wrong. Not all personalities are compatible. I wonder how other men perceived Fr. Mary? However all the other complaints expressed in this video seemed to just be about normal men being normal men. I saw more red alarms with Augustine than I saw with the group. I didn't see anything that looked like "grooming". This smells more like a witch hunt. The photo of two guys hugging for the camera. How incriminating!!! 😲 The reporters are trying TOO HARD to create a story. Is that the best you can do? 🥱 I give this report a FAIL. 🤡 And may God forgive you if you are destroying a group of good people trying to do good. 🙏

[@andrewhosfeld]

Now after watching the original video interview in its entirety, to say it was/is bereft of evidence is an understatement. In no way am I stating the accuser is lying. This is pertaining to the segment itself. The intro to the interview CM stated there was a lot of evidence. CM only produced one police report and the conviction of assault that were legal documents germane to the accuser. The supplement segment and the at risk teen part were very loosely associated to the accusers specific experience story. Again, not stating there isn’t more evidence but after the intro into the segment, the omissions were 🤔. The Gulag comparison is an appeal to hyperbole. Unless there was one person in a Gulag that went of their free will and able to leave of their free will. Appeal to not just emotion but emotional exaggeration of an inaccurate historical comparison impeaches one’s own argument.

[@hailholyqueen]

Paywall?

[@Aquinas40]

Something completely stinks here. This is the 3rd video I have been directed to over the last 4 days. All the videos are young men who are FORMER members of this dubious community. Why doesn't the prior of this community make a KZbin video addressing these allegations? This community is posting so many videos of this nature makes it all the more suspicious and that there IS something to be seriously concerned about. If you're in this area of the US please contact USCCB and the relevant Bishop who have some authority. The Dicastery for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith should be contacted too.

[@debbie2027]

@@Aquinas40 TOTALLY agree

[@e.jenima7263]

@@Aquinas40 I do agree as much as I do not caire for church militant myself personally and there bully journalism I allso get a bit of a odd feeling and must agree that maybe there could be or could have been something going on. Homosexual priests and monks are nothing new many of our most beloved saints were thought to have feelings romantic ones for a religious brother or sister and I find current views of Homosexually inclined Priests or nuns being a danger to religious lif or unmanly or feminine to be ridiculous for this reason but rape/grooming is another thing altogether and I do agree with your reasoning. The only issue with a Homosexual person persuading religouse life in my view is if they are seeking to enter religiouse life out of shame and to hide there sexuality. I have sadly noticed this in many very conservative catholic parishes . In such places homosexuals are actully very common but that is not the issue, the issue is they feel such shame about themselves and there sexuality that they often use there faith to hide it and often pass judment on others.........in short such persons are not healthy bc they are Homosexual/gay/same sex attracted but bc they are so deep in shame and guilt that it causes them to actually harm themselves and others by being dishonest weather that is passing judgment on others and being self ritouse or marrying a man or women and having familys with them knowing that deep down that is not what they want and they can never love that person, to hooking up with persons of the same gender especially a fellow roman catholic who may be at peace with there sexuality and faith and then have sex with them make them think they may have a future only to turn on them or discard them once they have there fun OR enter religious life in a attempt to hide from themselves and there feelings which is almost as unhealthy as leaving the church all together to a life of hedonism .

[@calebalton2084]

​@@Aquinas40using former members for the videos to repute the allegations, adds a level of truth that current members could not provide.

[@allanrinaldipaone9850]

I am sorry for the pain which CM has caused this community. One must remember that CM is run by a man who claims he was cured of his homosexuality. I was initially inclined like so many others to give some credence to what he had to say, but upon closer scrutiny I believe him to be just an uncharitable one man hit squad. He sees two young men giving each other a high five and he will have you believe they are in a homosexual relationship. He is like the former alcoholic who then thinks everybody who has a beer is an alcoholic, stay clear. His devotion to the Church is questionable in that he seems fixated on homosexuality to the expense of other issues. As a former postulant in the Society of Jesus, Francis' cult now that is an order that actually encourages homosexual behaviour for as they see it as a natural expression of Christian love in their own distorted view of things. Let us pray for each other.

[@eagleofthesacredheart3170]

You just made that up.

[@allanrinaldipaone9850]

@@eagleofthesacredheart3170 Really now, which part did I make up?

[@allanrinaldipaone9850]

@sultan whomever However, they all work for this man on a crusade now that he has been "cured" of his homosexuality. So once it is effete men that he has a problem with, and then as you say "alpha male" rhetoric which is it? Doesn't it all come down to an obsession with men? Do you as a rationale human being want me to believe a man who reaches thousands of viewers announcing his cure from homosexuality? If there is a cult like figure in the Church today it is Francis and his servile Marxist minions with their vindictive and tyrannical behaviour.

[@francisheperi4180]

Good grief!

[@carlospoblet8692]

I never believed it. I know these Monks are real men!!! More manly than what we see often in the world. God bless you brothers!!!

[@TheBruins108]

If this where true why hasn't this hit the national news?

[@jayduke8554]

Thanks for sharing. All it takes is one guy who wants to destroy and people listen for the excitement

[@dorasnop7771]

Satan get him

[@chrissie9100]

@@dorasnop7771👍👍👍 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@michaelmckay3179]

It's good to hear a first hand testimony. Church Militant can't always get it right

[@rothschildianum]

He needs to go on camera and argue with CM. If he is truthful, CM will be humiliated!! Go!!!

[@thomasmoran5977]

... or ever

[@salvadorseekatzrisquez2947]

Church Militant seemed OK to me FOR A WHILE! I have noticed they are fake Catholics. Church Militant really are terrible. Doesn't accept Second Vatican Council and they are committing idolatry towards the Latin mass and attack the pope very unfairly.

[@rothschildianum]

@@salvadorseekatzrisquez2947 What did they say about the Pope that is not true? I never heard that CM does not accept V2 or committing idolatry toward the Latin Mass. Those two are not their favorite topic. Their favorite topics are cleaning up Catholic church. So far, I always found that they are very truthful.

[@salvadorseekatzrisquez2947]

@@rothschildianum let me clarify I came up with the term “committing idolatry with the Latin mass” because when that becomes to what you cling to instead of anything else with no sense of obedience to the church. You basically become a “Lefevrist” (Marcel Lefebvre) big schismatic French Archbishop against SVC

[@Maranatha-t9d]

Who is the nun that lives near the grounds of the monks? What is her name?

[@tantebaguette]

Amazing how both St Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross were of Converso origin. Makes you wonder who draws in the light.

[@lapun47]

Anyone who watches the Church Militant Catholic Headlines regularly knows that the channel is obsessed with homosexuality.

[@rhwinner]

It shouldn't be in the priesthood or religious orders.

[@creedy8612]

Yet the church is full of homosexual men in the clergy. Thank God they actually expose it .

[@creedy8612]

@Mongoose Man he’s been with both men and women and has repented and dedicated his chastity to the Virgin Mary, but y’all can’t let that go. No one is their sin and we are all tempted in different ways in our life. At least Michael Voris has the balls to bring out the filth in the church.

[@ronselgrath1235]

Voris lies every time he talks

[@richardsaintjohn8391]

True 💗

[@charlesoneill466]

Glad I saw this video. CM videos are now suspect.

[@superjfbm]

... monastic life is very busy...

[@roberth.7697]

I find it interesting that so many ex-novices of this order are making videos refuting the claims of another ex-novice. Why bother?

[@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162]

In imitation of Christ the monks have kept silent while being accused. We who are able to defend them are trying to clear their name and to correct some scandal.

[@jamesnally8586]

One is forced to ask if you viewed the CM presentation which defamed this community. I have long wondered when there would be a response to CM's gross characterization of the monks. We presently live in a Church which will not disregard any inference of misbehavior among those who give a place to traditional practice of religious life. Frankly I'm surprised the Wyoming Carmel hasn't seen a violent response from the episcopate given the content of CM's abhorrent assault upon them. The thoughtful and respectful testimony of former novices speaks eloquently as the to integrity of virtue to be found among the Wyoming Carmelites. This and the support of their bishop could be all that stands between survival and suppression. It is not uncommon to see those who have left a community to besmirch the life they left. That this is not the case in regard to the Wyoming Carmelite Monks is wonderful. There is great good going on in Mary's house.

[@davidwm]

Because the truth matters.

[@haydendude]

@@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162 wait but they are not really Carmelites monks the Vatican do not recognize them.

[@ConnieRossini]

@@haydendude that is false. They are going through the proper process to become a full-fledged order, have been given preliminary approval of their rule by the Congregation/Dicastery for Religious, with whom they met in Rome, and had an official visitation that found no major problems. It takes years to be fully established as a new order.

[@rodneyferris4089]

The Devil goes about as a roaring lion…

[@patriciagrande311]

Anything that comes out of CM is messages to destroy the Church and Bishops

[@debbie2027]

It's important to hear all sides, however, you aren't really speaking to most of the points made in The Vortex - Spotlight: Counterfeit Carmel?

[@dorasnop7771]

Virtex guy is homosexual himself, usually they the ones who are projecting their own weakness on others

[@ConnieRossini]

They are doing several videos to address as many points as possible. Keep watching.

[@debbie2027]

@@dorasnop7771 LOL Michael Voris ? HE wasn't even the one that did the spotlight .... So you didn't watch the episode, you don't know the evidence they have, and you are calumniating him. How many covered for the McCarrick's in the ranks ? You need to do what your name suggests and explore what the arguments are.

[@debbie2027]

@@ConnieRossini ? ....Seems very avoidant and suspicious to keep putting out video after video when the spotlight was 1 video. Anyone who isn't emotionally invested and understand styles of deceptive communication can see right through the need to keep talking without substance. They need to just sit down and do side by side BUT I suspect if they actually had the ability to refute it, they would be taking it court

[@ConnieRossini]

@@debbie2027 CM would not even allow comments disputing the truth of their claims. There is no way they would agree to a debate. Since their expose was quite long, I see no problem with a bunch of short videos disputing various points. Other people commenting, who are also skeptical, have said they should say more.

[@corneliusmakin-bird7540]

So did CM just make all this stuff up?

[@anthonyhulse1248]

probably.

[@mcchickenmuhchicken]

no

[@rothschildianum]

@@anthonyhulse1248 If you do not know, don't chime in. Tell us what lies that CM had said about this Carmelite Monk. Otherwise, you are the liar.

[@ConnieRossini]

On one of the other videos, I listed several false statements, inaccuracies, and fishy circumstances regarding the CM video. There was obviously very little attempt to present facts.

[@rothschildianum]

@@ConnieRossini The monks should address the inaccuracies if they are truthful!

[@ericgutierrez2936]

It's clear to me that this mens group is more cult than religious. The control factors, isolation, shaming, and disconnection with family are hallmarks of all cults. (That and excessive work, lack of sleep.) Whether it's a gay cult under the guise of a mens religious group, in my opinion, is not the point. The point is, being a cult, makes it inherently dangerous, and prone to sexual abuse. The fact the Diocese makes it clear it doesn't consider the group "religious," but instead, "a lay group of faithful," doesn't excuse the fact that they function and recruit under the false understanding that they are, and moreover, under the imprimatur of the Bishop - meaning, they implicitly condone and are complicit in their transgressions - sexual or otherwise. Let's put it this way, as soon as I realized it wasn't what I signed up for, I would have left. But like most abusive relationships, the victim, like this buff kid obviously put up to defefend his abusers, might not be capable of making a clean break and seeing them for what they are. Diocesan priests are really just a step a way from this group - and maybe why the Diocese is slow to make a move - or do anything about it. As a gay former member of a Catholic mens religious community, I can attest that rarely do these setups exist in a vacuum. Who knows which leader - head monk- no pun intended, lol - is dating, boyfriend of who...

[@annahamerl4298]

My brother is a monk there: please stop spreading rumors. The monks have become family to me since my brother joined 8 years ago. They are some of the coolest and most genuine people I know!!!

[@juliemaze6224]

They can't be Carmelite if they don't love the Rosary. Period.

[@wjh399]

They are not Carmelites. They are a diocesan group approved and welcomed by the local bishop. They have no connection to the Carmelite Order. BTW Carmelites are not monks.

[@4344chicago]

Are you still with them

[@ericgutierrez2936]

Final point, Catholic Whatever Militant also seems like a cult. The leader is a "former homosexual." The both have agendas - ironically, they both seem like gay dudes just not wanting to accept themselves - self-loathing. The "accuser" seems, just like this kid, put up to it all by a powerful source, other than his own thoughts, feelings. See my cult comments below. If my spiritual advisor invited me into his room and was only sporting his underwear, regardless of the circumstances...you see where I'm going. Flight out that afternoon. Naked showers, in and of itself, seems normal, unless you shower with your clothes on, dunno. Three hour daily, lingering naked showers with the entire community, including the old guys, not so much. Unless, that's what you signed up for, or the voices in your head, God, a shining light, told you to do it. Hehe.

[@johnmcguire4635]

Brilliant insights, what can anyone say?

[@ericgutierrez2936]

Thanks. However, I also rigorously argue that the Carmelite monks are also not on the up and up as to what is really going on behind those monastic wells. Even if both parties are consensual, they both seem like tragic figures. The way I see it, if you want to devote your life to God, do it. Similarly if you're gay, like me, just be gay and love yourself. God does, too. But I recommend not trying to do or be both together. Their are pitfalls on both sides.

[@johnmcguire4635]

@@ericgutierrez2936 You've summarized well the dramatic tension involved in almost all consecrated lives. The very fact that there is this whole sector wherein boys give up their right to be autonomous and to reproduce is for predators an irresistible reality, and the rest is Mystic Monk history!

[@Aquinas40]

@@ericgutierrez2936 I fully agree

[@marisa-lucero]

It's true, they both seem deeply flawed. Having worked at CM myself I can definitely attest that they made a few mistakes: 1) Someone messaged me saying a reporter called him an infiltrator for not wanting to tell his whole abuse story 2) A priest backed out of joining New Catacombs (the underground priest network I managed) because of an untrue report about him, he thought he could get past it but couldn't. 3) An employee was slandered and called a name to all the other employees by a leader without due diligence (not me) 4) I was fired for catching my supervisor in dishonest behavior. I don't doubt either sides experience, but having a deep investigation seemed kind of excessive if they are still good enough for other people to have fruitful good experiences. An article seems more appropriate, but whatever. Having lived in a traditional cloistered convent for a month I realized how worthless it is to know the specifics of this kind of stuff to pray for people and have to admit that when I look into this stuff it's more for some personal satisfaction, than something productive.

[@thunderthumbz3293]

Why is Church Militant putting out content that isn't true. It seems to me at the very least their content can be the sin of rash suspicion or rash judgment or even a grave sin of lying.

[@peaceandlove544]

Sooo tragic the one against Our Lord and his true church want to destroy her and everything traditional, Tkuu for your braveness. We know presently there are some bad apples, but to discredit an specific order unfairly is horrible

[@johnmcguire4635]

Interesting video. You should do one that deals with Church Militant's accusations point by point. And have your superior and bishop call CM to set the record straight. Then we can have peace about this, which is what God wants. Otherwise you're playing right into the hands of your very hard-nosed accusers. Amen.

[@creedy8612]

Exactly! Sitting a couple dudes in front of a camera to try an explain things without any proof doesn’t help their cause.

[@Jordan22220]

@@creedy8612 to be fair, we all know the Carmelites didnt have a problem to begin with. CM is a bad organization that does not speak for faithful Catholics. They're only taken seriously nowadays by people who don't know any better.

[@creedy8612]

@@Jordan22220 tell that to true victims of sex abuse who finally had their stories heard and brought to light. Save it

[@Jordan22220]

@@creedy8612 they are best served bringing their stories to credible Catholic news agencies. If you know any victims of sex abuse, please let them know also and I'll spread the word too. The fact is, CM is not a legitimate news organization. There are several that have integrity and that will actually get results with their reporting. CM has/does neither.

[@rothschildianum]

@@Jordan22220 I totally do not agree. I found CM is very credible, I listen to CM and so far they are always truthful against Homosexuality problem in the church.

[@thomasforsyth4462]

Are these men authentic Carmelites or are they simply a public association of Catholics?

[@bengoolie5197]

Is the accuser a Vatican II Bergoglian? That would be logical.

[@Aquinas40]

Do you mean the Holy Father?

[@MS-bb3bj]

The devil hide in the most unlike places to do bad things and make Misérables young souls but thanks he got free

[@annahamerl4298]

My brother is a monk there: please stop spreading rumors. The monks have become family to me since my brother joined 8 years ago. They are some of the coolest and most genuine people I know!!!

[@TheDominicans]

Why are there so many former novices? And why are all these former novices' testimonies being posted by this community? One assumes that the script has been written by the superior of this community and is being filmed and edited by the hierarchy of this community. This completely undermines such testimonies and leaves a very large question mark over the many videos of former novices of this group? Extremely suspicious.

[@ryanhilliard1620]

The young man Tyler started this channel, (not the monastery) and is trying to collect as many testimonies he can because he believes the monks are worthy of defense. A lot of young men are attracted to the beauty of the Carmelite vocation, but it is very demanding and a very specific call. Some discern this is not their calling. There aren't many, there are maybe 5 testimonies here.

[@calebalton2084]

If you were an ex member of an organization and they called you up to come lie for them on camera, would you do it? I'm assuming you would not. So why do you indirectly accuse these ex members of lying about the truth with your claim of being extremely suspicious of their testimony? How many witnesses do you need to refute the claims of one accuser, that you claim to be extremely suspicious of what they are saying? Why would they as ex members, no longer under the authority of the abbot, no longer beholden to the monestry, no longer obligated to toe the party line, cause you to accuse them of being puppets of the Abbott, merely reading a script the Abbott concocted? Seems to me that you don't understand that ex members have the least reason to lie, and are more likely to speak the truth. Yet strangely you would believe the word of one ex member over the word of 5 ex members. Does your bias stem from your own sexual orientation?

[@ryanscottlogan8459]

My father was a Redemptorist priest and went to Seminary in the 1940’s and he told me they had open showers.He even remarked that when some seminarians came to visit from South America they were very modest and wore underwear in the shower.If showering with other men were a sign of homosexuality then we have a military full of queens!😂😂😂

[@McAvoy-ft5fg]

SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT !!!!!

[@br.j9145]

I would like to hear more. I'm a Carmelite, but I don't know them personally so I couldn't corroborate anything about the personal accusations. What I did know for sure was a little point: the skull on the table. I have heard since before I entered that this is actually a traditional Carmelite practice, and I know communities who still do that (fake skull these days). We may have gotten it from another order...but that is just one of MANY things we got from other orders (as is normal). Again, it's a small point, but it certainly made me think that they may not be providing the most accurate information. Furthermore when I watched the CM video (the day it came out), I expected stronger evidence.

[@jamesnally8586]

The skull in cells and on the head table in the refectory has been in place for as long as I have known of Carmel back to the 1950's and, I would suspect, is very rooted in tradition. How many depictions of the saints in the fine arts do we we see the skull? Even Jesuit saints! Teresa and John were not adverse to the realities of human existence, nor were the Desert Fathers from whom they took much of their inspiration. The skull merely serves to remind us of our mortality, of the fleeting nature of temporal human existence and to keep our eyes on the prize of eternal beatitude if Almighty God judges us worthy of eternal union with Him. Initially I I found the CM video rather compelling -- but after a few hours of reflection and multiple viewings it became very apparent that the young man was processing his experience with impaired maturity and CM was sensationalizing his skewed perception. I was in the end horrified at CM's utter lack of understanding of the monastic tradition, of the reformed Carmelite tradition and history. Once I had the highest regard for CM and appreciated their willingness to go where other feared to tread. With the fiction produced about the Wyoming Carmel I no longer ever give a glance to their website. When I see a retraction of what they have hurled at the Wyoming Carmel and an acknowledgement of the grossly depraved practice to which they can at times sink they will never have my readership again.

[@ConnieRossini]

Yeah, what they said about the configuration of the monastery with hermitages around the chapter house being unknown in Carmel is also false. The O. Carm. Hermits in Lake Elmo, MN, have the same configuration.

[@jamesnally8586]

@@ConnieRossini The individual cells standing independently from each other is a practice of the Carthusians, but in Wyoming's case and Lake Elmo's they are certainly appealing to the practice of the hermits of Mount Carmel. These hermits were Europeans, some veterans of the Crusades, who settled on the sacred site in imitation of the prophet Elijah. They are the origin of the Carmelite order. When life there became precarious many journeyed back to Europe with their rule of life composed by S. Albert of Jerusalem.

[@ConnieRossini]

@@jamesnally8586 agree.

[@br.j9145]

@@ConnieRossini That's true - it is generally a Carthusian set up but it fits in well with the instructions in the rule. This group came from Lake Elmo actually - I'm told they left when they became officially connected with the O. Carm.. The Discalced were founded as friars because our foundational duty is to serve the nuns and there are always more nuns that friars in the Discalced. Why the leadership is so picky on that, I'm not sure, but I think they just didn't want to step on toes by having a permanently eremitical branch, but I'm not sure. Either way, at this time they cannot connect officially to the Discalced but they didn't want to be O.Carm....but again, that's just the story I heard (and my whole point is just to say the WY friars came from Lk. Elmo)

[@richardbenitez1282]

The journalists involved made things up or exaggerated certain things, like guys in underwear. Well… yeah. At times one would see some fellow monk in underwear. Well . Duh!

[@dorianlelong]

Someone is delusional here, and I don't know who.

[@anthonyhulse1248]

Voris.

[@teresaoftheandes6279]

Unfortunately CM jumps on hearsay too often.

[@johnmcguire4635]

Have you watched their video on this case or are you literally doing what you assume they're doing? Ah the poetry..

[@Baker-m9y]

CM has an agenda. Keep up the good work. Thx.

[@haydendude]

They are not Carmelites or have any ties to the Carmelites it all.

[@falnica]

“They are definitely not homosexuals… they are very manly men…” The way you say it convinces me of the opposite

[@anthonyhulse1248]

Vorisbot

[@Aquinas40]

Very manly men can be and are homosexual (not all) but if that your frame of reference in identifying a homosexual man you need to go out more and become more informed

[@sunamcm1]

I don’t know much about this situation but, when you use phrases like “manly men” and “definitely not homosexual”, you sound guilty. I honestly don’t care if all of the monks are homosexual, as long as they are living true to their vows. This whole thing sounds incredibly, embarrassingly homophobic.

[@anthonyhulse1248]

Vorisbot

[@ericgutierrez2936]

I don't think it's possible to be "guilty" of being gay, as it's not possible of being "guilty" of being straight, Trans, bisexuality, whatever. But I get your point. If the naked showers and muscle worship become the main priority over living a religious life, you're a gay fraternity. With robes. I have no issue with that. Just don't claim to be Carmelites, Opus Dei, Catholic Book Club - if you're not.

[@mcchickenmuhchicken]

Your experience doesnt negate someone elses.

[@annahamerl4298]

My brother is a monk there: please stop spreading rumors. The monks have become family to me since my brother joined 8 years ago. They are some of the coolest and most genuine people I know!!!

[@tomdooley3887]

Can't hear you very well , volume is low. But I am inclined to believe church militant. It is an Undisputed fact that homosexuality is rampant in the priesthood , up and including Cardinals in the Vatican itself. That many monasteries are also infected with homosexuality. It's said that the Seminary training men for the priesthood almost came to a stop like having a heart attack with Vatican II

[@raulelenes4194]

What you say is what protestants always asserted regarding the Catholic Church and Catholic Institutions in the old days. If you're Catholic, you should give it a second thought. Personally, I feel you can find gay people everywhere as much as straight ones. Nevertheless, when we are thinking about religious institutions we should always we careful if there is no secret agenda from those who are interested in spreading those comments.

[@tomdooley3887]

@@raulelenes4194 The Protestant reformers the first mistake was leaving the church. There is no salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church. But the smoke of HELL being in the halls of the Vatican and the Vatican under occupation by the Freemasons , and this pope if that's want he is as he don't claim to be the vicar of Christ. Still the gates of hell shall not prevail , as GOD is a GOD. of Battles and the battle is with the Hague Secular globalization and the new world order. The mother said her immaculate heart would win , but the blood of the unborn comes a a fearfully price. The real crisis hasn't came yet , there's going to be HELL to pay before this is over.

[@annahamerl4298]

My brother is a monk there: please stop spreading rumors. The monks have become family to me since my brother joined 8 years ago. They are some of the coolest and most genuine people I know!!!

[@tomdooley3887]

@@annahamerl4298 That homosexual does what is called "Nesting." , its not a rumor , that the Russian leader Stalin ordered " those with out faith or morals to" infiltrated into the priesthood is a matter of Public record. The priest charged tried and jailed for sexual misconduct its not to be questioned , so I wonder What you mean about the rumors. I wish none of this was true but the truth is the truth. Like the Pro choice college kids taking a Bible away from a Pro Life kid , kicking it around like a kick ball Then tossing it into the bottom of a Porta potty. I wish that wasn't true eather but it is , at one time those kids would most likely been tar and feathered. I believe what our mother Mary said In the end her Immaculate Heart will win. But the blasphemy of taking a Bible away from someone and kicking it around like it was a kickball and then throwing it into a porta potty says the spiritual degeneracy. This generation is fallen to. priests are tried for the sexual deviency and there's a network of them in the priesthood and in the monasteries and the seminaries and it goes clean up into the Cardinals of the Vatican . it is an Abomination but I would have never dreamed of, but it also is the truth. They have masses that are nothing more than Protestant services of a new protestantism that hasn't left the church yet., Declaring themselfs a separate Church of their own, to my understanding is what is occurring these days it's a new Protestant Reformation openly proclaiming homosexuality even on the altar I don't know where you come with rumors, it's a fact not a rumor. I myself would gladly have taken up the religious Life as a vocation, it just wasn't in the cards for me . I would never leave the church , but I am not blind to the fact we are in a crisis of historic proportions. The protestants first mistake was leavening the church , their second mistake was assuming they had authority to be a separate Church. the mother has said that her Immaculate Heart will win and that I put my face in which means that Abomination will be removed from the church.

[@petermacander2061]

LAME ATTEMPT AT DAMAGE CONTROL!

[@annahamerl4298]

My brother is a monk there: please stop spreading rumors. The monks have become family to me since my brother joined 8 years ago.

[@jerickr3090]

The claims about these "monks" aren't rumors, but rather are the experiences and witness of a particular ex-novice of this community. You might have had different experiences. Both of your claims can be true. Nevertheless, I don't doubt the claims that have been declared to CM in the least.

[@rothschildianum]

This ex-novice should ask to be interviewed by CM and debate CM. If he is truthful, he has nothing to fear!!

[@teresaoftheandes6279]

You should state the reasons for your certitude.

[@ConnieRossini]

@@rothschildianum when CM ran their piece, they deleted all comments that accused either the former postulants or CM of lying or deception. Many (almost all) people defending the monks had their comments deleted. CM is not interested in debate.

[@rothschildianum]

@@ConnieRossini They want the monks to come and defend their position. People can or will lie on KZbin. Face CM in camera, if I were the monks , I will not clear the situation!

[@annahamerl4298]

My brother is a monk there: please stop spreading rumors. The monks have become family to me since my brother joined 8 years ago. They are some of the coolest and most genuine people I know!!!

[@peterdalyy3542]

Why do so many guys leave the monastery

[@ryanhilliard1620]

They go to discern, but it is a very challenging life, a very specific calling and many find that while the life is beautiful, it just isn't their vocation.

[@petermacander2061]

NO MORE COUNTERFEIT CARMELITE COFFEE!

[@annahamerl4298]

My brother is a monk there: please stop spreading rumors. The monks have become family to me since my brother joined 8 years ago. They are some of the coolest and most genuine people I know!!!

[@ursula1815]

1. Could you explain why if the community was so holy, that you discerned out? 2. Could you please discuss the canonical situation of the monastery not having canonical status as a monastery?

[@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162]

Hello, God calls each person to a specific state in life, and I discerned that He was calling me elsewhere, not because the community is bad. In like manner, many men discern out of seminary, but that does not mean that the priesthood/seminary is bad. The monastery has canonical status as a public association of the Christian faithful in the diocese of Cheyenne. This is a normal step in the process to becoming an institute of diocesan right.

[@michaelciccone2194]

So why did this guy leave the Carmelites?

[@ryanhilliard1620]

A lot of guys go to discern, but the Carmelite vocation is a very demanding one, a specific calling. Some discern it is not their calling and leave.

[@chrisboone5069]

Go to the records division for the leader of this order being on probation. I've seen the court documents. Stop trying to lie.

[@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162]

I was there when the sheriff came. He thought the allegations of violence were unreasonable. Nevertheless, the monk you mention was put on probation by the court as a precautionary move. His probation has long been expired, and nothing came of it.

[@creedy8612]

Yep! The fact that this isn’t even diocese approved community and all the evidence they have is astounding. This video is lame at best. Prove it except saying it’s not true. I’ve met many “manly” homosexual men. Just stop ✋ church militant blew y’all out of the water.

[@creedy8612]

@@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162 he admitted to “choking” this guy! Wtf is wrong with you people .

[@eagleofthesacredheart3170]

@@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162 It's a good thing you don't wear pants otherwise they'd be on fire right now.

[@ConnieRossini]

He did not choke Augustine, according to the police report. Nor is he a leader of the order. He is a lay brother.

[@eagleofthesacredheart3170]

Is this in exchange for them giving you money for living expenses or are you a paid actor?

[@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162]

We've addressed this previously, but we are receiving no material compensation for this whatsoever. Look at our other videos. We have pictures of us in the Carmelite habit.

[@rothschildianum]

@@wyomingcarmelitetestimonia5162 Do confront Voris on camera! You should stop the lies if you are really truthful. You have nothing to be afraid of!! I want to see the confrontation.