Carmina Burana: Orff's Orchestra

A detailed overview of Carl Orff's instrumentation approaches in Carmina Burana.
Complete Playlist of Carmina Burana score analysis videos and shorts: • Carmina Burana Score A...
WDR Symphony Orchestra's performance of Carmina Burana with Cristian Mačelaru conducting:
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[@camberr]

This series could not have come at a better time; my college is doing Carmina Burana next semester and Im playing one of the piano parts.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Great to hear it!

[@victormunroe2418]

I remember when I did Carmina Burana as a schoolkid, we had almost the full orchestral forces but 2 percussionists and 2 pianists covered the whole piano/percussion/celesta part

[@ocelotsly5521]

As a former student/amateur tuba player, I can say that playing Carmina Burana was the most fun I ever had as an orchestral rank-and-filer. The part doesn't work unless you absolutely crank it. There's a delicious descending octave glissando with a hairpin to ff, earlier in the same chorale you highlight at 16:46. Fabulous to play.

[@michaelhienzsch4808]

Just woke up from surgery to discover this had dropped. THANK YOU Thomas! I'm very aware (I think our whole group is) that this is still a difficult, challenging, fragile time for you. God be with you.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your very considerate comment. I appreciate it very much. I'm so glad that this video can hopefully be part of the healing process for you (and the next few coming before the end of the year).

[@hippolytabaker9559]

Orff was the first composer I was ever exposed to. My mom has been trained in and teaching Orff Schulwerk to children and other adult music educators for over 40 years, I've read pretty much every Schulwerk score book, I attended Schulwerk courses my mom taught when I was very young, and Carmina Burana and The Planets are the first pieces of classical music that I took a CD of and listened on my own. To say I've been looking forward to this series is a vast, *vast* understatement. A few notes of my own: - I personally adore the way Orff does time signatures and I use it in my own manuscripts, although I usually have to switch to the conventional method in a digital workstation. I understand why it can trip people up, but for me it's just way easier to read, and from a conducting point of view is *way* easier to use, especially for compound time signatures. - Orff's piano usage not only tracks with how he was inspired by Stravinsky's usage of it in Les Noces (Stravinsky's influence is *all over* Orff's compositions), but ideas he was developing with Keetman in making Schulwerk. He was kinda ahead of the curve when it came to using the piano as an outright percussion instrument in a major orchestral work, and in the other two works of the Trionfi it's even more exposed. It really reminds me of how Percy Grainger, who was a pianist by trade but hated the instrument, used the instrument in his own orchestral writing (including the delightful score direction 'played clatteringly'), although Grainger could be lyrical with the instrument as well. - Orff's veritable battery of percussion tracks with Schulwerk. The Schulwerk instrumentarium is almost all percussion instruments, with one wind instrument (the entire family of recorders) and one string instrument (the string bass, although the guitar is also approved). He felt that they best served the needs of improvisation (the pedagogical underpinning of Schulwerk) and, most importantly, are extremely easy for children to learn and play. - Carmina Burana is the only piece I've ever seen where my part, bass trombone, has sections written in the tenor clef, although this could be solely for scoring purposes (which is much easier to read). - Speaking of, I appreciate the work for having interesting low brass parts! We play a considerable portion of the piece, really only taking most of the third part off, and what we do have is fun. There's fanfares, glissandos, muted low notes, medieval sonorities that require a really open embouchure but played quietly, the triple high Bb pp-ff crescendo at the end of In Taberna Quando Sumus, the oompah section in ITQS that was one of my favorite parts as a kid.

[@owengette8089]

Orff sure did love his unusual orchestras. His opera Antigonae was scored for 6 flutes, 6 oboes, 6 trumpets, 4 harps, 6 pianos with 2 players apiece, 9 contrabasses, and a massive percussion section.

[@dominicfiacco]

So true

[@Stockymusicfan]

Do you have a link to the score?

[@owengette8089]

@ Unfortunately I don’t; it’s readily available for purchase, I just have no plans to get it myself.

[@Stockymusicfan]

Where can I buy it​@@owengette8089

[@itznoxy7193]

Excited to study this marvellous work over the coming holiday season. Cheers everyone.

[@Johanofsweden]

Wonderful! Thank you for this rich resource!

[@prototropo]

Such a majestic, magnetic work. And this expansive analysis of the score is a beautiful match for the ambitious compositional achievement by Orff.

[@johnmcallistermusic]

Wow. This is a fascinating look at Orff's orchestration!

[@marcelominal]

Thank you for sharing with us this amazing orchestration class!

[@alexchristodoulou]

Yaaaaay!! I was waiting so much for this. Thanks so much Thomas!

[@maestrorafaelribeiro]

What an awesome work you did there! Thanks!

[@lipkinasl]

Absolutely spot on in everything you say,especially in regard to the horn scoring and your closing notes re bar numbering and rehearsal marks. Orchestral hornist for 30 years, and my orchestra's assistant librarian. A fab video, looking forward to more in the series. 😊

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Thanks so much! I really appreciate the ups from my horn/librarian crowd, that means a lot. Also married to a veteran pro hornist/orchestra librarian.

[@jonathanp935]

LET'S GO! we made it to the launch, Thomas please tell me the next analysis series won't have a subscriber goal attached to it, i've been waiting since may for this video! On a more somber note, hope ur feeling better after such a hard time for you.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Thanks so much Jonathan. There might be a subscriber goal for the next series - but when you see the next piece planned, I think you'll agree that the tally will go up much more quickly. I appreciate your thoughtful message. Things are still day-to-day, but I'm hopeful.

[@jonathanp935]

@@OrchestrationOnline One more question concerning another group of videos i love, will you get back to the evaluations for the Beethoven challenge? Also, i don't know if you'll talk more about this in the O fortuna video, but am I correct in assuming that the closing O fortuna is an exact copy of the opening or are there some differences you'll point out?

[@Qermaq]

Great overview, just as I've come to expect out of you. This is a brilliant instrumentation for what Orff was trying to accomplish.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Thanks so much!

[@adamtullymusic]

Excellent video! Thank you maestro!

[@felixburghelea]

Congratulation! No wonder with such good content you put out there!

[@SilverAg11]

I really hate when rehearsal marks are spaced evenly like that, it makes me second guess my counting when they don't line up with phrases Can't wait for more Carmina Burana!!

[@johnopalko5223]

Congratulations on 77k subscribers! I'm looking forward to your analyses of Carmina Burana. CB has long been one of my favorite works. It's a lot of fun to sing, too.

[@eddygonzalez2328]

You're welcome. I had ro empty my savings account to pay off enough people so they could subscribe, at least temporarily.😂😂😉

[@jankapi-zq9nn]

This is genuinely my favorite channel ever. Thank you so much for this content!!! Your videos have made me passionate about orchestration and will be buying your books as soon as I can! :D

[@katbullar]

Yayyy! A new great video! Thanks a lot! I love your analysis, insights and structure! I sent your video to Martha Argerich. We watched Carmina Burana on TV together in Geneva in August.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Aw how lovely! Thanks so much. She sounds like great company.

[@roqueavellaneda]

Way cool insights to start the CB series... It's an awesome piece. Radical use of perc and choir. Hope you're well Thomas ✌️

[@jbaldwin1970]

I was at a performance of this a week ago in Glasgow (RSNO) along with Langer’s The Dong With a Luminous Nose. I’d fallen out with Carmina years ago thinking it was a one hit wonder with a few nice moments but this was a revelation. The soloists acted their parts - the tenor crept on to the stage ‘late’ for example - and the audience laughed on several occasions at the baritone’s various antics. It’s a very theatrical work. I’ve been humming bits of it all week. With a Mahler 2 and 5 already done this season in Glasgow is already a great one. There’s a ‘come and sing’ Carmina Burana in Edinburgh in January if anyone is nearby…

[@Qermaq]

15:35 as a former trombonist, that high Bb is murder. I'd rather to that on the B or C above, to be honest. For whatever reason that I don't know for certain, that Bb must be at or around the "break" between the normal register and the high range. The embouchure changes ever so slightly for this octave, sacrificing a little warmth for better endurance, stability and and airflow. Maybe this is less needed on the smaller-bore trombones of Orff's day, but today's symphony players use trombones that were about the size of a bass trombone of that time. Not saying you shouldn't write this, just that it's a lot harder than it looks (and I agree it looks hard, but yeah), and a higher note might actually be easier to crescendo from p to ff on.

[@wpaganperez]

Thank you!

[@Apfelstrudl]

Thanks for the horn distribution part! (coming from a hornist)

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Glad to know I got it right! (My wife the pro horn player also vetted it, but not all hornists agree about everything.)

[@sashakindel3600]

7:07 How would double bass players whose instruments don't have the low C handle this passage? Play the whole line, or just the low C's, an octave up? Stay silent during the low C's, or the whole passage?

[@katetranscribes]

27:05 HUGE (!!!!) made me smile when I caught it

[@herbchilds1512]

Very pleased to have this fascinating analysis. May I request similar attention to Janacek's Glagolitic Mass?

[@DavidJRobinson]

Congrats

[@looney1023]

Very very excited for this! Been in love with this piece ever since I got to perform selections from it in college. 30:42 Our sheet music for Veris Leta Facies actually notated these first four time signatures as 2/(dotted-half), 3/3, 1/2, 2/3. You can see it in this score video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/np_IqHWka8SVorc I always found that interesting and slightly confusing, as if it's 3/(3/4), three "3/4-measures" per measure. Much prefer the 2/(dotted-half) system, though it also takes getting used to when the dotted-half changes to a regular half.

[@itznoxy7193]

I noticed you didn't talk about the choir at all. Grand choir, piccolo choir, soloists, etc. Is that coming in another video? Orff's Chorus?

[@OrchestrationOnline]

I do discuss Orff's basic approach, and mention that the scoring for strings and choir will be examined in each individual analysis video.

[@arothenb]

A few semi-random observations about Carmina from a choral singer (I've done Carmina six times, including with the Philadelphia Orchestra), program note writer, and choral librarian: 1. I agree it's a masterpiece, but it gets old fast. There's not a lot of "there there." 2. A lot of orchestras seem to perform it with only one piano. I assume that's for money and/or stage space considerations. 3. Thomas - will you include the 2 piano/percussion version in your discussions? I'm not really convinced it works. And I think, with most piano arrangments of orchestral music, listeners are hearing the full orchestra "in the mind's ear." So what's the point except to save money? And I see on Schott's website that there's a version for accordian orchestra. That's gotta be wild. 4. Libraian gripe - for a long time the choral parts were only available in 2 separate publication: one with S/A, the other T/B. No piano reduction, or "cueing" of the other gender's parts. Really difficult to deal with. Yes, there's always been a vocal score with the solo voices, chorus, and a piano reduction, but getting choristers to shell out c. $30 US is a non-starter. A full choral score was finally made available in 2007.

[@MuzixMaker]

Guards! Knights! Squires! Prepare for battle!

[@eddygonzalez2328]

So the rehearsal marks are randomly place every 10 bars, regardless? I was so confused. I thought they were rehearsal marks, but I saw the transitions either before or after. Should I remark the rehearsal marks for these study?

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Not necessary. My videos will all be using the marks in the original score as you see here, so just leave it alone. However, my instruction is for people to NOT do this in their own original works. For Orff, the damage is already done so I don't want to make it worse. We can navigate with what he left us.

[@Noblankit]

Are we using the WDR recording for this series?

[@OrchestrationOnline]

This question has been asked before - you may have missed my response. The plan is to select the most ideal interpretation of each selection for the purposes of each individual lecture. In this case, both the optics and general high quality of the performance made the WDR video ideal. But you could see I used a different orchestra to show percussion tradeoffs, for instance. I like the WDR performance, and I'm sure we'll revisit it. You'll see other orchestras featured as we go. Stand by.

[@irismoralis]

I thought Orff originally scored it for just pianos, percussion, singers? And later did a version also with strings and winds. So I was a bit confused when you explained the role of the pianos, as they were originally more important

[@irismoralis]

Very nice video other than that, of course!

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Hi Iris! Thank you for your kind words about my video! I'm not aware of an original score excluding orchestral instruments. You may be thinking of Cattuli Carmina as shown in the video. Though undoubtedly Orff was guided by Les Noces' smaller numbers, if he had originally scored for a smaller ensemble then he wouldn't have required his student Wilhem Killmayer to arrange the orchestral score down to the 1956 version for choirs, 2 pianos, and percussion. He would have just used the older score he'd arranged if it had been true.

[@irismoralis]

@@OrchestrationOnline thanks for your reply! That must have been a myth then, as I have heard several people say the original version was without orchestra but now I also cannot find anything supporting that claim. I learned something new again!

[@eddygonzalez6018]

Ok, for some reason my score never looks like yours, Thomas. Do you ha it transcribed? I need yours so I can follow better😊

[@OrchestrationOnline]

Check out Maddenhawk's channel for the full score with pretty decent reference audio.

[@aw9680]

We did this in college. It's really hard to do well. The tempi are hard to transition through. The vocal soloists need to be loud and boisterous. While I love a big ensemble, listening across the stage requires careful attention. It's one of the few choral works that I want to sing along with, every time I hear it. I'm a percussionist.

[@Idyllic64]

14:54 thats a bad word