1964 Belvedere MAX WEDGE vs 1969 Camaro SS - PURE STOCK DRAG RACE (Best of 3)

[@mwhitelaw8569]

That's really cool My cousin ordered one in late 64 before his 3rd tour in Vietnam. I found the car buried under alot of flooring and scrap wood All covering the car nothing was actually on the car fortunately. Being as though I was only 15 and it was 1986 I didn't think much of it. Supported by cinder blocks at the frame I uncovered the car by disassembling the shed it was stored in. Only had 3300 miles on it My cousin came to get the car (different man) Months later I rode in this car and got to drive it as I had my permit then. Of course I helped get it running after all that time. It's family owned to this day R.I.P Casey Riley KIA 6/17/1965 Your smile will forever be missed cousin

[@CarsAndZebras]

That’s a very cool story. I’m going to pin it so others can read it.

[@norristammislideshowmulgre877]

My Condolences to you and your family. I thank you cousin for his service dedication and loyalty to America and the legal American citizens. RIP. That's a great way to honor your cousin. They were absolutely very fast back then and even for today's standards.

[@dhart8451]

Your cousin must have been one of the first casualties in Vietnam. Sad to hear, he had a full life ahead of him. Respect.

[@bunk-bn9eo]

Great story. And what a family legacy to leave behind!

[@billybob9961]

M Whitelaw wow great story RIP to your cousin a true American hero.

[@larryhutchens7593]

Back in the day they were not referred to a a Max Wedge. That moniker came about sometime in the early 80s. They were simply called Super Stock 426. The Dodges had one name while the Plymouth's had another but not Max anything. The stage 3 was so successful that some of them were out running some of the new hemis. If you think the exhaust manifolds were wild there were a few in 64 that had some really wild header looking manifolds. Racers dropped the 13.5:1 cr because the engines wouldn't hold up and found that the 12.5:1 was a more reliable engine. The 64 hemi came with cross bolted mains so crankshaft failures were less common on them.They had a BW 4 speed in 63 but it was only offered behind the 383. Gary Dyer of Grand Spaulding Dodge in Chicago took the 4 speed out of a 383 car & hooked it up to the 426 wedge and ran quite well but kept eating clutches. Couldn't compete in stock classes either. Chrysler came out with their own 4 speed manual in 64 when they introduced the New Process 833 4 speed. The trans was so rugged that in the 70s there were companies making bell housings to adapt it to Chevy engines. On that ugly little 62 Plymouth Savoy 413: Watched one of them put a beautiful 62 Pontiac Catalina 421 to shame. Not once but several times. That big Pontiac was running a BW 4 speed & kept eating clutches. To this day I can't understand how that little Borg Warner held up behind that big engine which was in a fairly heavy car. That was at the Great Lakes dragway in southern Wisconsin in early 63.

[@JAAB9296]

In 64 my dad bought a brand new Dodge Polara 500 controvertible, red, red gut with a white top. I remember the engine (not sure if it was a 413 or 426 max wedge) it had two offset air cleaners. I was only 10 years old at the time but will never forget those air cleaners. One day my dad was pissed off, don't remember why, but he got in that car, backed out of the drive way, and nailed it, smoked the tires through first gear ( it was an automatic) and when it shifted into second gear it did the same thing for quite a way. It was an awesome car. I wish I knew what engine was in that thing, but I can tell you it had two carbs that were staggered , so it had to be a 413 or 426 Max Wedge.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Your dad sounds like he had pretty good taste in cars. You know what car my dad had when I was a kid? A ‘91 Plymouth Acclaim. 😖

[@JAAB9296]

@@CarsAndZebras Plymouth Acclaim, funny. Yep he had a lot real nice rides back in the day.

[@Welcometofacsistube]

tyler amburg “ police pursuit “. Chrysler never made a “police interceptor”

[@romper4444]

Cars And Zebras me too!

[@1903A3shooter]

IF it was a 64 it was a 426. being old as dirt I rode in them back in the day.

[@markg7030]

The Max Wedge had the battery in the trunk on the right side for traction. This clone has the battery under the hood.

[@daveshepherd8460]

Only if it had the aluminum package.

[@thegreenerthemeaner]

They also had twin battery cables so there was no voltage drop. The aluminum K frames got clobbered from wheelstands and few originals survive today.

[@dangarrison3503]

Not all of them did.

[@timmotel5804]

The Max Wedge has always been one of my favourite engines, since they were in production. Two wonderful cars. Thanks.

[@Raven-ec2rh]

Had a 1969 hugger orange SS L78 back in 1974, vinyl top and all. Greatest car I ever owned or drove.

[@CarsAndZebras]

That’s always been one of my dreams. Specifically that with the white stripes and the Magnum 500 style wheels (but those were a pretty rare option)

[@mannieecker8602]

I really like your video series, you are doing a great job putting these together. Thanks for all of your work here I appreciate it!

[@CarsAndZebras]

Thanks for watching! I'll keep them coming!

[@twagn]

Camaro driver drove the wheels off that thing

[@CarsAndZebras]

For sure, he does that at every event he goes to. Pretty cool to see!

[@CarsAndZebras]

Quick drag race video coming Wednesday and next Monday. And trust me, you don’t want to miss Monday.... the purple Challenger will make its debut. Remember, these cars participate in the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race series, so follow them on Facebook!

[@tmseh]

Where is this strip?

[@splatacular]

@@tmseh Mid Michigan Motorcomplex

[@1967davethewave]

Wow those exhaust manifolds on the Max Wedge! Those must be rare as anything to find in this day and age!

[@obi-wankenobi5179]

You can find reproductions easy and cheap

[@1967davethewave]

@@obi-wankenobi5179 I looked them up. $1200 is cheap?

[@obi-wankenobi5179]

Yes $1200 for ceramic coated manifolds is cheap vs the cost of originals.

[@1967davethewave]

@@obi-wankenobi5179 Mmhmm

[@chrisleggett685]

I know where there is a set and a cross ram intake that still has casting numbers. Many got polished which removed the #'s.

[@coreyjenkins3056]

Those L78 396 in Camaro's are QUICK with good legs on the other end!!!

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Yeah, that Plymouth better get a great launch... because that small light streamlined Camaro is going to be GONE on the high end!

[@garymckee8857]

The vehicle is a 64 I owned a 64 hardtop but it was a 318 car and it was a very nice vehicle. Thanks you pick some nice vehicles to show.

[@CarsAndZebras]

That’s what I thought, so either the engine is from a 1963 or the valve covers were labeled incorrectly during restoration

[@terrysellers6712]

I think the 62 409 got into the 11s as well. What a cool car that 62 is! My favorite mopar of all I've always wanted one. 😇

[@jayschmahl9206]

Both crazy cool. Must say I am a Mopar guy but that Camaro is sharp! Love the poverty cap's...gives that car a killer attitude for sure. The '64 Plymouth is one of my favorite's. I have alway's wanted a '64 Sport Fury Max Wedge.

[@feff5717]

thanks for sharing. 64 Plymouth is my favorite, grew up riding in one... 88 mph is slow for a maxy car, i'm sure he didn't want to hurt it.

[@guyski666]

Love your commentator skills bro. Still waiting for ya to do a 68 Dodge Dart 383 GTS. Not much stayed with those puppies :)

[@CarsAndZebras]

Thanks! I don’t think I have any Dart 383 GTS footage. Definitely have some of a really nice 340 GTS that will be out in the future.

[@jamesaandf]

A ‘62 Plymouth or Dart with a performance engine and package were the first real factory muscle cars. They checked all the boxes.

[@davegeisler7802]

Indeed they did ! Long live the Ramcharger / Super Stock 413/426 🏁

[@davegeisler7802]

That and the Chevy 409 and Pontiac 421

[@CamaroZ-cr9bo]

*janesaandf* 62 62!! Dart!! Dart!! Well what about the 68 and 69 Dodge Dart!?

[@jamesaandf]

@@davegeisler7802 Chevy and Pontiac were full sized cars. Ford’s too. The origin of being a muscle car was in part that it was an intermediate sized car. The ‘62 Dart and Plymouth were intermediates.

[@darrellsomers5427]

That would be a 61 impala 425 hp 409 not a 426 wedge

[@boostjunkie2320]

this channel is pure gold. I grew up on tuner cars but I love to Learn about old muscle and old race cars

[@TheDatadrew]

You really do a nice job on your videos. Keep it up and thanks for making them!

[@CarsAndZebras]

Thanks, I’ll keep making them. 👍

[@ST-cy6we]

Except tone down the narration a bit. It's like a bad telemarketing commercial

[@jerrycraig6522]

I agree, very enjoyable, wanna know why? Cuz, drag racing is faaar out!!! and that's the truth!!!

[@rickuyeda4818]

Love these PSMC videos. Reminds me of my old Street Racing days on Van Nuys Blvd.

[@CarsAndZebras]

There will be a lot more posted in the future!

[@gordocarbo]

Grew up in the valley, cruised with my uncle as a 70s kid then mid 80s would go down there occasionally. Cops really cracked down on anyone cruising. Used to live right behind Super Shops. St racing in the valley went on 3-4 nights a week for $10 in gas you could cruise around all dam night .

[@Rampant_Colt]

and don't forget about the L89 aluminum head 396 option that knocked off around 50lbs (I forgot exactly how much) off the front end

[@CarsAndZebras]

You’re correct, it was around 50lbs. And there just might be an L89 of some sort making an appearance next Monday on the channel. Stay tuned!

[@Rampant_Colt]

@@CarsAndZebras the option was outrageously expensive, and authentic cars so equipped fetch a heavy premium resale value

[@seth1066]

Closer to 100 lbs; you'll find 75 lbs often quoted. I was told 100 when I ordered my 1968 Camaro, but stayed with the cast iron.

[@Dayandcounting]

​@@seth1066 The L89 heads knock off 66lbs they are 35lbs each full dressed heavy by modern standards and prove to cracking around the rocker studs.

[@louiskats5116]

That Plymouth wasn't showing it's true potential. Either too much wheel spin even in top gear or highway gears on the arse end. Should of been doing 100 mph with those times. Or the drivet was taking his foot of the gas before the line otherwise both cars are gorgeous & whatever the outcome just hearing & seeing these 2 beast going down the strip is awesome. Just heard 4:10.1 driver taking the foot off the gas. Great video

[@CarsAndZebras]

Thanks for watching!

[@jimhall5472]

I agree. I was pretty shocked to see the Chevy come out on top in that race.

[@joebooker7902]

Hi Louis, you are right. the car didn't show it's full potential. That was the first time I ever ran the car. Just put those new redline tires on and could not get those to hook up. Talked to a few of the Mopar guys running that day who watched me run a few times. Too much wheel spin an no weight in the back. I was standing on it when launching and it was just spinning. Tried shifting early so tires could catch up but that didn't work.

[@louiskats5116]

@@joebooker7902 Hi Joe, Congratulations on a such beautiful beautiful muscle car. Being a first timer explains it all, it's just going to get better with age, like a bottle of fine wine. I think the late Tom Hoover has a similar set up as yours, maybe something to look into as his son according to Mopar Muscle Magazine still poses it. Regardless it's all about fun, I hope to get over to the States one day & coming to the Pure Stock Drags is in my top 5 things to do. Is the battery relocated in the boot, or is that not allowed. Wishing you all the best in the future with that gorgeous Plymouth of yours, just keep giving it to those Chebbies I mean Chevy's. All the best Louis Kats from Australia 👍

[@pwr27986]

Too much Chevy in the other lane for the Slowpar.

[@davidtrobaugh9798]

Love the 64. I had three of then this is a Sweet Car.

[@jerrycraig6522]

The dodge "golden commando" won alot of races at our local cruise spot, very hard to beat stoplight to stoplight, push button auto even with a 383!!!

[@zxtenn]

100 mph from a max wedge sounds kind of low

[@79tazman]

it was not tuned right at all

[@elonmust7470]

Also the driver was 100% green

[@The_sinner_Jim_Whitney]

Yeah, the numbers don't really add up. I'll grant that the driver wasn't 100% doing his part and it's a stock-ish automatic, but a good running Max Wedge should do better than that in a 3400-lb car with 4.10s, I would surely think. They do like real low 12s/high 11s with a good trans/converter and slicks when I've seen them run.

[@Perry_Fan]

Very low, if that was a good running Max wedge and a good running 396 the max wedge would have clobbered the 396

[@hoost3056]

@@Perry_Fan probably wasnt revving it high enough. Gotta spin that wedge up.

[@Bigjoedo66]

These are great videos, thanks for posting them !!

[@J.Ray1776]

My dad had a 64 Fury it came with the 318 Poly with push button "Typewriter" 3 speed we replaced the 318 with a mildly built 360. My buddy had a formula firebird with a 400/automatic that Plymouth would show that bird taillights everytime.

[@d18dlf]

That is a 1964 Belvedere. There is the possibility that it is correct at being a stage 2 for 26. The reason being is the production date of the motor. They did have to finish up using a few stage 2 Motors that were produced in late 1963. If that was a very early production line of 64 is the reason of the possibility that it is a stage 2.

[@CarsAndZebras]

That would make sense

[@Russeljfinch]

Not true ! All 64 MW had block ID 436 VMP. This is a clone...and not a good one. Oh also I own the Darrell Davis book with ALL the MW vin #

[@joebooker7902]

@@Russeljfinch Just to clarify, this car is a clone but all period correct. All panels, glass etc are original to this car except the motor. The block is a 64 max but the heads are 63. The motor was built (Not by me) to the 426 max wedge specs. This was my first time to ever make a pass with the car. Traction was the biggest problem. Definitely need practice with those skinny tires. The car has been dyno'd at 577. The hp is there. Getting it to hook up with those little tires was the biggest problem.

[@zxtenn]

Mid 12's sounds honest with 456 gears from a review and good driver for that Mopar, that push button is SICK. Muscle cars with a strong engine really needed 410-456 to get the times way down there but 456 on the street is a tough life for the owner and engine. In the mid 70's i bought a 67 RS Camaro body and got my hands on a 427/425 so the same engine as the Yenko, it already had a 12 bolt with 456 gears so with a JUNK Holley 780 and 25 inch tall slicks 12.7 like nothing, a guy that raced said easily 12.4 with a single plane Tarantula and 800-850 DP but i was barely 20 years old pumping gas for just over 2 bucks an hour then the gas shortage, not a good time for 11.0 compression engines

[@danam0228]

That black Belvedere is on of the coolest looking cars ever. Wicked cool!

[@ttocselbag5054]

Bro. That L78. Jezzus Christ! All that forged hardware-tougher than a bank vault. 😊

[@CarsAndZebras]

Definitely well-built! 👍

[@mikewasfaret9563]

Boy the Camaro driver sure could row the gears. I was expecting the Plymouth to win with the automatic.

[@lfeco]

My bet was for the Plymouth......I lost. :-(

[@andrewp1998]

@@lfeco me too:(

[@tomwolak3362]

If the driver woulda stopoed being such a pussy and gotten on that wedge that camaro is toast. Just shows how bias these chevrolet crowd videos are. Put a boss 429 on that camaro and watch what happens.

[@tomwolak3362]

@tyler amburg Yeah who the fuck races a push button automatic against a 4 speed. That like putting a Boss 302 / 4 spd against a 57 chevy with a auto . who's gonna win.

[@elonmust7470]

@tyler amburg you don't have to push a button to switch gears....... You put it in "D" and you hit the gas.....

[@rong4189]

00:40 There’s that ‘69 Cuda 440 in the background again, hope to see it soon! lol

[@CarsAndZebras]

You just might!

[@lovethesmellofracefuelinth7374]

Yeah that would be cool, and would like to check it out too. I would also like to see a vid of that steel wheeled 70 Challenger in PC paint at 0:11, as well. Can't tell if it's a hemi car or packing the 6 pk, but either way they are both hot Mopars and would like to see them on full display 👍🏼

[@shauniestaunton4736]

Its a 6 pack& it runs

[@79tazman]

How about the 1969 Copo Yenko, Baldwin/Motion, Nickey, Dana Camaro's with the 427CI 425hp now those are bad ass

[@robertmetzger1753]

You have or know anyone with one ?? Theres a heck of alot of Racing to be Done !!! LOLOLOLHAHA

[@michaelmichaelson8452]

Both cars could have benefited from Drag slicks though I'm a mopar fan that Camaro was quick and the driver knows how to drive a 4speed!

[@gearyheidinewaccount3237]

Surprised the 396 ran that fast being heavier and les cubes..love both cars

[@paulcondie2520]

That is one massive intake manifold!!!

[@CarsAndZebras]

EXTRA juicy 🤤

[@kenswitzer4133]

Cars And Zebras I have always thought the cross ram was one of the toughest intakes ever built. Love them old MOPAR’s.

[@joebooker7902]

@@kenswitzer4133 Ken, I own the 64 Plymouth. Just to clarify, the motor is a 64 max wedge block but has 63 max wedge heads. It is clone and not a true maxi. I agree with the mopar guys. Not a good showing for the car. That was the first time I raced the car and had a hard time getting those new redline tires to hook up. I baby the car but just wanted to participate in the event for once. Been attending the pure stocks for 10 years but never brought the car. The car has the horse power I just couldn't get it to hook.

[@davepotanko5514]

@ Joe Booker The MPH was off like those AFBs are not opening fully (really kills a AFB with counterweighted secondaries) I have been bitten by this also. Just a thought, good luck next time, always rooting for the Mopar.

[@markbreuninger1191]

That max wedge plymouth should be running mid 12's at 110 mph. somethings not right!

[@moparXdarren]

Considering a dialed in stage 2 Max Wedge would run low 12s/high 11s back in 1963/4, something is off...should have cleaned the camaro's clock.

[@stevenhowell2285]

Nah Chevy has been beating mopars for years with the Chevy having smaller cubic inch motors

[@gordocarbo]

Owner is new to drag racing, takes awhile to get a feel for things. Expected him to walk the camaro also. Launching a BB with skinny bias plys has to be tricky

[@p47thunderbolt68]

Had a neighbor that traded his 70' Road Runner 383 4 speed in on a new 1972 Ford Pinto . Even Though I was just 9 years old it just didn't seem right . To be fair to him the Pinto had the "sports package".

[@claytammaro7060]

The L78 is no joke, The engine was way under rated, more like 450HP

[@redbay8527]

Great camera work at the track - shows what we want to see. Good audio levels and video work - makes for a good production all around, thanks for posting these - I'm subscribing for sure.....

[@51515123]

You ain't kidding. The max wedge! 🤯 Absolutely amazing 🤩

[@mynameis9057]

Shifting a push button tranny banging gears racing on the dash,must be the weirdest motion compared to banging them regularly. Was expecting the max to win out. Oh well, thanks again. ▪☆☆☆▪

[@CarsAndZebras]

Thanks for watching! The push button is pretty cool

[@p.shephard2081]

Love seeing all the old mopars

[@jerrycraig6522]

Those mid 60s mopars are seriously bad ass, my best friend in high school big brother had a 64 "golden commando" we won a lot of races with that car down at the Renton "loop" our local cruise spot

[@codychickadee5095]

I think we should let these guys throw a set if slicks on for drag racing!! This old iron can compete with new very expensive cars quite easily. Great driving by all but the 4 speed magic always gets me. I also love how much info you give us. Great videos man.

[@mopar1465]

Max wedge heads, 4 bolt valve covers. Later standard big block heads had 6.

[@mopar1465]

@@jaybredeken8983 I had a set 518 stage 3's. 4 bolt covers. Reproduction stage 3's in the early 2000's had 6. Nothing is set in stone with Chrysler Corp so who knows.

[@davidrico2563]

@@jaybredeken8983 stage 2 had 4 bolt covers. I got a pair of cast aluminum 4 bolt valve covers. No leaks with these. I dont need them anymore......

[@toddlecher4097]

ask uncle tony's garage, that guy is a muscle car encyclopedia

[@independent2368]

Yeah he's pretty sharp with Mopar. You should also check B. Mason's channel for the Mopar live chats, and they call him the Mopar professor FYI

[@andrewp1998]

@@independent2368 also Nicks garage

[@TMT915]

You guys are kidding right

[@chrisleggett685]

Uncle Tony's engine didn't run long enough to run on the dyno. He is a hack.

[@Natedoc808]

Gotta love the push button auto. Someone tried to steal my 64 Dart GT convertible but couldn’t figure out how to get it in gear! Found it running, door open, heater blowing, blinker on!

[@josephfreeman3816]

Its worth mentioning that the L78 was seriously underrated. That camaro h as exactly the same engine that was the top engine option in thec1965 zcorvrtte where it was rated at 425 hp. If memory serves correctly some of the car magazines were running high 12s with it after tuning gears and tires. Still I expected the automatic Mopar to win. The numbers said it should have. Great cars. Great races Great chsnnel.

[@bigthunder2860]

I'm sorry for your lost cousin, in my town we lost two guys in a week Vietnam dirty war I went two school with,I'm glad you keep his car from the junkyard I'm proud of you two for that honor car and you should I'm also a veteran of that war

[@wolfmanhawk]

Love your channel. Great humor as well!

[@kevinnoble6320]

COPO CHEVELLES CAMARO S AND YENKO CAMAROS WERE ALL FREAKING AMAZING MY FAVORITES ALL WITH 427 BUILT ENGINES SCREAMING ASS FAST AND WORTH ALL OVER 100000 EACH PLUS MORE. WHATS AMAZING IS HEARING THAT MAX WEDGE IN 62 HAD 13.5 TO 1 COMPRESSION IN A BIG BLOCK WOW THATS AMAZING. LOVE THESE VIDEOS

[@davy1458]

My grandpa had the very same car in the same color with the 426 max wedge...he ordered it brand-new but sold it after about a year because it kept tearing out transmissions and because my mom was born and he needed a family car....he said the hood always looked like it was gonna fly up on him whenever he would wined it out and so he never had the courage to take it to its max speed....probably a good idea considering the tires they had in those days.

[@burningblue1254]

I expected a little more out of the max wedge especially since it was 200 pounds less than the Camaro. Definitely the Camaro's 4 speed in good hands gives you the edge by giving you the extra legs at the top end. Great racing.

[@mikeskidmore6754]

With street tires on my 1979 Z-28 Camaro at Martin Drag way .. I did get beat quite badly by a 413 Max Wedge.. I ran 13:56 @ 107 MPH just too much spinning off the line..

[@1JUSTGOTLUCKY1]

Great video...very informative!! Thank you!

[@MasterWitchDoctor]

the absolute expert in early Chrysler muscle cars is Forrest Pitcock. He was a Chrysler engineer who designed and built the engines for pretty much everything including NASCAR engines run by Richard and Lee Petty. He lives in Woodbury Tennessee and has been featured in many of the old Hotrod magazine articles.

[@mynameis9057]

Throw some headers on it and it's good for another 25-35 h.p. too! Those Max wedge cars screwed!!!

[@you99tubejimking]

The Mopar shifted into 3rd way too early in all three races, plus it had no traction. The guy had to keep letting off the gas a bit all the way to about the 1/8th mile line while constantly correcting the steering to deal with slightly getting sideways.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Definitely a lot of torque. I wonder if you can effectively shift the pushbutton torqueflite to control the shift points yourself? I wonder if it would lag quite a bit because of the push buttons

[@robertschroeder5271]

Yes, they can be shfted manually. Top gear is positioned at the bottom to avoid hitting the neutral button accidently, which could blow things up.

[@nelsonhoogerhyde4173]

got a 68chevelle, conv, w/l-78, modded, 4:33 gears, lightened, open headers, 11.24 @ 118 mph best. nice car still have it. it beat my kawasaki h-2 , modded, with slicks, and wheelie bar..geared, special exhaust system, 11:38 best @ 115 mph... sold that bike.. too bad, imo

[@CarsAndZebras]

That’s pretty crazy in a convertible!

[@GH-el9ch]

Love the screaming H2"s... Love Chevelle 68 and 69 are my favorite muscle car of all time... Had a 69 327 4 speed and a 69 El Camino SS 396 wish I still had both of them..

[@CarsAndZebras]

@@GH-el9ch If you like '69 Camaros you'll like tomorrow's video (11/18/2019), stay tuned!

[@GH-el9ch]

@@CarsAndZebras thanks I will definitely be watching for it

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Thank you for using my favorite mustang clip . It always sounds like I opened my cupboard and threw everything in the street 🤣

[@txsviking]

Another great match up!

[@CarsAndZebras]

Two great cars!

[@jeremyg7975]

You sir do a fantastic job. Give yourself a bonus this month and put it on my tab. Vars and zebras

[@charleshall9755]

I bought a 69 just exactly like this when I got out of the Air Force in 1970. Paid 2500 dollars for it with 12,000 miles on it. It was garnet red with black vinyl top and white interior and a 396 with 4speed and 373 rear end. So Sadly I traded it in during the oil embargo on a new Ltd ford in 1973 and still sick over that...lol

[@CarsAndZebras]

1969 Camaro over to Ford LTD.... jeez. 😆

[@charleshall9755]

@@CarsAndZebras long story...all over a woman...lol

[@lynnchello7231]

It was the Mopar driver. We had a 64 Stage I with boltons and it only got beat once from 1964 to 1968 on Telegraph and Woodward.

[@robertschroeder5271]

Amazing the difference a driver can make. Camaro was all in, mopar was babied.

[@CarsAndZebras]

I think you nailed it. I’m sure he didn’t wanna break anything, it is an extremely clean car

Chevy rules.

[@63grandsport11]

@ I had a L78 and this is exactly the way it took place on the street From Chicago to LA and back.

@@63grandsport11 Nice. I can only imagine.

[@daverodkey]

@@CarsAndZebras VERY obvious the Max wedge driver is not driving it like he should/could have. He doesn't want to break or damage anything, understandable. BUT.... IF you are going to line up against another car, the baby/whimp factor needs to be shelved...

[@badgerbait8351]

Grumpy Jenkins often had his way against mopar 426s, 440s and Ford 428s and 429s while running a 396 Camaro, as GM wouldn't allow anything more than a 400 ci engine in midsized cars until 1970. The 375 hp 396 was a little beast!

[@CarsAndZebras]

As long as you could control the wheel hop and get some traction, there weren’t many cars that could beat it!

[@daverodkey]

The 396's were actually 402ci.

[@badgerbait8351]

@@daverodkey I don't believe they were 402s until late 69, as I recall?

[@daverodkey]

@@badgerbait8351 VERY late 69 into 70 and on.

[@peteloomis8456]

Grumpy Jenkins used to run Mopar at one time and did well with them !

[@lindsaythomas2283]

I believe the L78 engine, (396, 375/425 hp) ran best with the Muncie close ration manual 4 speed tranny (M21). My brother had a 67 or was it a 66, Chevelle with the L78 and close ration tranny. We lost very few street races.

[@tonyjcool5314]

Thanks

[@CarsAndZebras]

Thanks for watching! 👍

[@dangarrison3503]

A friend of mine has a 64 Belvedere Superstock 426 Hemi. 1 of 35 and only about 7 still exist.

[@bigbline405]

64 was the intro of the 426 hemi I believe but the max wedge was still available there. 59 new yorkers had luxery golden lion 413s a single 4 barrel of the max wedge the 3rd version was the 440 magnum And the road runner 383 had the max wedge heads And yes the push button auto was sweet those wedges are like the tornados that share the same name they destroyed drag Watson their time. L78 396 in the 65 z16 chevelles had a 425hp rating so how in 66 did they go to 375 in one year yeah I'm sure chevy was fibbing

[@herman452]

No, no, no. the Golden Lion 413 in a 59 New Yorker was NOT a max wedge. It was a smooth, mild cammed luxury motor. Even the 59 300's high performance dual quad 413 was not a max wedge. And a 383 Road Runner definitely did not have max wedge heads. Max wedge heads were unique to the 62-64 max wedges, and so were their hot solid lifter cams, short ram intakes, and wild exhaust manifolds with three inch outlets and factory cutouts.

[@jeremythompson9122]

The 69 L78 Camaro is an awesome muscle car but the Max Wedge Plymouth would eat it for breakfast in a 1/4 mile drag race if both cars were stock. An L78 Camaro is definitely no slouch at all but that Plymouth is a legitimate Super Stock race car. The guy driving the Max Wedge was obviously either taking it easy or had no idea how to drive it. A 69 ZL-1 Camaro or a Z-11 Impala vs. The 426 Max Wedge Plymouth would be more of an even match up

[@ezrider831]

If you are lucky enough to own any one of these cars; You're a winner!

[@CarsAndZebras]

Very true!

[@mikeskidmore6754]

Both cars need headers.. The difference between the two is almost down to the fact manual robs less power than a slush box.. The Camaro driver seems to be very consistent..

[@CarsAndZebras]

Headers would definitely help, but they do not allow that in the pure stock drag racing series

[@SolamenteVees]

The exhaust manifolds on the Max Wedge car are cast iron headers; far more efficient than run of the mill manifolds. Google image search this...

[@lancehurley9743]

Man..that 67 hemi coronet in those last few frames of the vid looked badass and probably is

[@CarsAndZebras]

If you can believe it, the guy driving is the original owner. He bought it brand new in 1968 (it’d sat on a dealer lot for a while before he bought it).

[@lancehurley9743]

Cars And Zebras please excuse me but......lucky bastard!....sorry,I meant absolutely nothing by it👍

[@williehill47]

Plymouth Belvedere: Anybody got racing fuel?⛽

[@SCfanIam100]

That's the slowest Max Wedge I've ever seen.

[@disgustedvet]

I thought the Plymouth would dominate, what a surprise.

[@guyski666]

Me too. But the weight difference was a lot, and the L78 with 4spd and 4:10's in a little Camaro is vicious :)

[@bnghjtyu767]

Yeah I put a 1964 Chevrolet in the mix with the max wait and see what happens.

[@zubitron5]

Joe Booker Joe Booker 4 weeks ago You and most are correct. The Plymouth didn't run like I anticipated. The tune was great. I just could not get the tires to hook up. The car has 577 hp. At the light I was standing on the throttle. I was told by a few of the experience guys you have to gradually press the gas. I just put those new 15" redline tires on but didn't have the correct tire pressure. I dropped down 25lbs in the rear and it was still breaking loose. Talked with a few of the faster Mopar guys and they were running 20-25 lbs but also had 100-300 lbs of weight in the trunk. This was my first time I ever raced the car. I admit, I was depressed at the times and the mph but know with traction and practice the car will run much faster. I can't take anything away from the Camaro. His car ran great! I talked with him and he's been running in this event for quite a few years. So experience does also help.

[@marquanbrand-moorehead1887]

My Favorite Chevrolet Camaro 1969,

[@MrSuzuki1187]

Good eye on your comments on it incorrectly being a Stage ll instead of a Stage lll. Well done.

[@tammyforbes2101]

My father had a 69 GTX with the supercommando 440. Bought it new after he got back from Vietnam. To bad he didn’t hang on to it thing would be worth a mint now.

[@fearknot7]

Both cars are awesome.

[@deadhead7930]

Not a big fan of the 69 Camaro but this is a proper black top on Marlboro red L78 monster. Image all black wheels with slicks on this bad Larry.

[@jeffschwartz5199]

I like the clips way better with the narration . Hoping , all is well .

[@davegeisler7802]

The Wedge gave the L78 all it wanted . Good races 👍

[@dominicfischio851]

i love those early camaros, but that outcome surprised me a little bit

[@marshallamp682]

Need to double the width of the rear tires on the Camaro.

[@CarsAndZebras]

That would definitely help the drag racing... but it's not allowed in the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race series. You can only use factory sized tires.

[@4406bbldb]

I went for a ride in a 63 belvedere 4sp 426 max wedge in 1963 i was 16 and happy to there. 62 ply muscle car was awesome. Maybe it was a 64 bought in 63.

[@randygreen8916]

I'd take either car, the 64 426 Max Wedge Plymouth or the 69 Camaro SS 396.I

[@CarsAndZebras]

Yeah, I don’t think I would complain about either! 😎

[@mikemoore7245]

Both cars were fairly consistent. I prefer the Camaro but would definitely go for a ‘Cuda in its place!

[@jamess4535]

You are correct, the 64 was Stage III max-wedge

[@adamtrombino106]

Something not right about that Max Wedge. Never seen 1 run that slow. 88 mph trap speed?! In any case the Chevy ran good.

[@CarsAndZebras]

Driver might just be taking it easy and not wanting to break anything

[@joehintz3900]

Agreed!!! That little Studebaker looked pretty tuff...unless missed something?!

[@daltonmann4916]

thats the same thing i was thinking. those max wedge cars were beast if you knew how to drive them, 88 mph is no where near what this could do. not to say the camaro wouldnt have beat it, but at least make a race of it.

[@zubitron5]

From the owner. Joe Booker 4 weeks ago You and most are correct. The Plymouth didn't run like I anticipated. The tune was great. I just could not get the tires to hook up. The car has 577 hp. At the light I was standing on the throttle. I was told by a few of the experience guys you have to gradually press the gas. I just put those new 15" redline tires on but didn't have the correct tire pressure. I dropped down 25lbs in the rear and it was still breaking loose. Talked with a few of the faster Mopar guys and they were running 20-25 lbs but also had 100-300 lbs of weight in the trunk. This was my first time I ever raced the car. I admit, I was depressed at the times and the mph but know with traction and practice the car will run much faster. I can't take anything away from the Camaro. His car ran great! I talked with him and he's been running in this event for quite a few years. So experience does also help.

[@jerrycraig6522]

Well it's a beautiful car!!!

[@cherrylove3656]

Everybody and their mother has a 69 Camaro you don't see too many Belvedere's definitely with this type of engine

[@georgethecritic9850]

I think you meant a rear as high as a 2:93 or as low as a 4:89 on the Belvedere. Love you little inuendoes

[@romper4444]

Somethin was wrong with that max wedge, she wasnt running out on the big end like it should with mph like that. Theyll run high 12's at 108+ all day long with an average setup. He was spinnin pretty hard too

[@ztwntyn8]

The difference is suspension. Watch the camaro launch. The other thing is the 426 wedge doesn’t seem to rpm well enough for the low gears or it needs some timing

[@jordanparker8359]

My dad used to work with the guy that owns the Camaro! Small town Illinois for the win

[@wymple09]

That Plymouth driver was not babying it. You're not babying the car with that burnout.

[@davidefland1985]

L-78 was actually 425 HP it was the hottest 396 u could get